Busted ankle and Opioids

[Holladay]

My big dogs were playing with me while I was on a sheet of ice. Boom goes the dynamite!

Surgery, plates and screws. I have a bottle of Oxycodone 5 mg x 42 pills. 1 pill every 4 hrs.

The day after op, I was popping them like candy. Helped a bit. 3 days after, 1 per 3.5 hrs. 6 days post op I will take 2-3 for the whole day. Wakeup, Bedtime and a misc.

So the question is how does a person become addicted to these suckers?

I still have 5 more weeks in the cast, then 2-4 in a boot.

Tomorrow, I'll see if just ibuprofen 200 mg will do.

Do they use get high? Trips? Or is there pseudo pain that people use to feel better?

[TambaBerry]

Are you kidding? Those things make you feel amazing. When I got my wisdom teeth out I was popping one every 2 hours or so and when I stopped I got the worst headache I've ever had in my life.

[chinaski]

When you are actually using them for pain or post surgery, the euphoric effect is mitigated. At least in my experience.

[Beef Supreme]

When you have chronic pain, it doesn't go away 3 days later.

[YontsRBake]

Different people are more prone to it based on genetic brain neurology and chemistry. For the majority of people that get addicted, amount of Serotonin released is at such an extreme that their brain almost immediately craves more. Predisposition plays a big part in all of it.

[suzzer99]

I tried oxys a couple of times and felt sick. Now hyrdrocodone - with a few drinks - that's the stuff.

The yellow norcos are the supreme shit. Other stuff - same milligrams - not as good.

[Fish]

So... uh... whatcha doing with the rest of those?

[Simply Red]

FEELS GOOD MAN

[Red Beans]

Take three of those motherfuckers... see how quick it gets on top of you. My advise is to take them for a few days and then cold turkey and go with ibuprofen for a day or two. Then back to the meds. Give your body and mind a break if the pain is manageable. Then abuse the fuck out of that script for a few days. :) Take a few days/weeks off. Rinse. Repeat.

[frozenchief]

My wife is a nurse and my father is a physician and my legal practice involves a fair amount of drug cases so I've researched this issue and discussed it with family members who have expertise. From what I've seen, addiction involves more than taking meds as prescribed. It seems to me that there are generally two kinds of addicts. FIrst are those who are just looking for something to get high. If they can't get heroin, they go for meth; if they can't get meth, they aim for cocaine. This type of addiction is more 'mental' than anything else because it is the feeling of being high that is important more than the particular substance. This is admittedly over-simplifying but I don't want to write a treatise. This doesn't seem to be your issue.

Second are those who develop physical addiction. These people start with some kind of injury and wind up needing meds to manage their pain. If your injury was relatively recent, this is way too early to say this is the case. This type of addiction takes months, if not longer. Managing your pain helps your recovery and it is better to stay in front, so to speak, of your pain than to try to take something to deal with pain after it flares up. This means that if you are to take meds every 4 hours and 4 hours comes and you're feeling fine, you should probably take your meds anyway to prevent the pain from coming back. This is really the case if your surgery was relatively recent, such as the past 5-8, maybe even 10, days. After that, you can start to stretch out the time between meds. And I wouldn't go to 200 grams of ibuprofen. I'd do 600 or so. My wife routinely just recommends 800 grams for headaches, muscle sprains, etc. It is exrtremely doubtful you would become physically addicted to the meds following this course. If you finish your pain meds and your ankle still hurts, you should talk with your doctor. My guess is that he won't be surprised if you need another course but he wants to make sure of it before he prescribes it.

Where I really see people get physically addicted are back injuries. I've represented several people who got involved in oxy distribution rings to feed their supply of oxys because of back injuries. Haven't seen anyone with a foot injury in that situation. And if you do have a situation where you are in constant pain, I'd recommend some type of marijuana. It works wonders, doesn't have the physical addiction or side effects (increasing dosages, constipation and thinking issues from what I've seen) that long-term narcotic use has.

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

I don't know, but I've read enough articles about people getting addicted to them that they scare me. I recently had a minor surgery. Filled the prescription for 10 days worth of the stuff. The first day, I took 1/2 of a tab. After I just used Advil and gritted through it.

I'm sure it would be different with a major injury, but I didn't want to take any chances on mine, so I opted for the discomfort instead.

[TLO]

I'd flush them if you can handle the pain.

Very difficult to stop, especially if you're getting a euphoric buzz off them.

Just be careful man.

[frozenchief]

I don't know, but I've read enough articles about people getting addicted to them that they scare me. I recently had a minor surgery. Filled the prescription for 10 days worth of the stuff. The first day, I took 1/2 of a tab. After I just used Advil and gritted through it.

I'm sure it would be different with a major injury, but I didn't want to take any chances on mine, so I opted for the discomfort instead.

That's too bad. You didn't have to do that. Most news stories are designed to scare you and this whole 'opioid addiction epidemic' is part and parcel of that. I have had my appendix and my gall bladder removed. I took the pain meds until I really didn't hurt anymore. That was about 10-14 days.

[TribalElder]

Don't take oxy, it's heroin

you should request something else

[Garcia Bronco]

My big dogs were playing with me while I was on a sheet of ice. Boom goes the dynamite!

Surgery, plates and screws. I have a bottle of Oxycodone 5 mg x 42 pills. 1 pill every 4 hrs.

The day after op, I was popping them like candy. Helped a bit. 3 days after, 1 per 3.5 hrs. 6 days post op I will take 2-3 for the whole day. Wakeup, Bedtime and a misc.

So the question is how does a person become addicted to these suckers?

I still have 5 more weeks in the cast, then 2-4 in a boot.

Tomorrow, I'll see if just ibuprofen 200 mg will do.

Do they use get high? Trips? Or is there pseudo pain that people use to feel better?


Get off them as soon as possible even if you have a some pain. You are hardcore and can handle it. Save the leftovers in case you have a really bad day. That's what I do.

What is you plan for strengthening your ankle when its healed? You'll obviously do some physical therapy, but I always do a little extra. Yoga...weights...shower exercises...whatever.

[SupDock]

My wife is a nurse and my father is a physician and my legal practice involves a fair amount of drug cases so I've researched this issue and discussed it with family members who have expertise. From what I've seen, addiction involves more than taking meds as prescribed. It seems to me that there are generally two kinds of addicts. FIrst are those who are just looking for something to get high. If they can't get heroin, they go for meth; if they can't get meth, they aim for cocaine. This type of addiction is more 'mental' than anything else because it is the feeling of being high that is important more than the particular substance. This is admittedly over-simplifying but I don't want to write a treatise. This doesn't seem to be your issue.

Second are those who develop physical addiction. These people start with some kind of injury and wind up needing meds to manage their pain. If your injury was relatively recent, this is way too early to say this is the case. This type of addiction takes months, if not longer. Managing your pain helps your recovery and it is better to stay in front, so to speak, of your pain than to try to take something to deal with pain after it flares up. This means that if you are to take meds every 4 hours and 4 hours comes and you're feeling fine, you should probably take your meds anyway to prevent the pain from coming back. This is really the case if your surgery was relatively recent, such as the past 5-8, maybe even 10, days. After that, you can start to stretch out the time between meds. And I wouldn't go to 200 grams of ibuprofen. I'd do 600 or so. My wife routinely just recommends 800 grams for headaches, muscle sprains, etc. It is exrtremely doubtful you would become physically addicted to the meds following this course. If you finish your pain meds and your ankle still hurts, you should talk with your doctor. My guess is that he won't be surprised if you need another course but he wants to make sure of it before he prescribes it.

Where I really see people get physically addicted are back injuries. I've represented several people who got involved in oxy distribution rings to feed their supply of oxys because of back injuries. Haven't seen anyone with a foot injury in that situation. And if you do have a situation where you are in constant pain, I'd recommend some type of marijuana. It works wonders, doesn't have the physical addiction or side effects (increasing dosages, constipation and thinking issues from what I've seen) that long-term narcotic use has.

Disagree. A physical addiction takes far less than months. The CDC recommends keeping acute scripts 3 days or less, many pharmacies won't fill new scripts with a duration greater than 7 days.

[Naptown Chief]

When you are actually using them for pain or post surgery, the euphoric effect is mitigated. At least in my experience.

Agreed. I've been on two 10/325 hydrocodone 3xday in conjunction with 800mg gabapentin 3-4xday, 2 8mg hydromorphone on the really bad days because of (multiple) nagging injuries from one accident. Essentially, long story short, I was in an attic doing ductwork and stepped on a stud that wasn't nailed in properly. I'm 6'1 188 before the fat jokes start. Anyway, needless to say, I wasn't in the attic anymore when all was said and done. I fucked up my neck, back, hips, and SI joints. I have over a dozen injections, nerve blocks, have had hip surgery and had my pelvis fused to my spine on my left side. It's looking like my right side will be done too. I've been doing PT 2-3x week for nearly two years as well- The fall was 3/20/17

To answer your question, I don't take them to get high. Even being on the dosages I've been on for 1.5 years and have never once taken more than prescribed. That said, after about a month I'd start getting "dope sick" if I went any longer than about 18 hours without taking something. This is nasty shit and I cannot wait until the day that I can start tapering down and then eventually off.

While I personally don't like the sedation I feel on a fairly regular basis (I don't even drink mind you) I can absolutely see how this stuff can hook you. Just be careful whenever they throw this shit at you, which is done far too often by far too many doctors.

[displacedinMN]

If you don't need them, don't. Then turn them in legally.

Hope you get better soon.

[Pablo]

Crush three up and dome them. Then get back to us.

For science.

[Naptown Chief]

If you don't need them, don't. Then turn them in legally.

Hope you get better soon.

This. Take them to your primary. They'll be more than happy to discard them for you. I did this with every bottle of pills as I built up to my eventual dosage. I started on a substantially lower dose but it didn't touch the pain. Truth be told, I could probably take higher but I'd rather endure my current pain than continue higher up the narcotics ladder.

[SupDock]

This. Take them to your primary. They'll be more than happy to discard them for you. I did this with every bottle of pills as I built up to my eventual dosage. I started on a substantially lower dose but it didn't touch the pain. Truth be told, I could probably take higher but I'd rather endure my current pain than continue higher up the narcotics ladder.

Most offices cannot accept these meds. They need to go to a law enforcement office or pharmacy with a controlled substance drop box

[TLO]

Agreed. I've been on two 10/325 hydrocodone 3xday in conjunction with 800mg gabapentin 3-4xday, 2 8mg hydromorphone on the really bad days because of (multiple) nagging injuries from one accident. Essentially, long story short, I was in an attic doing ductwork and stepped on a stud that wasn't nailed in properly. I'm 6'1 188 before the fat jokes start. Anyway, needless to say, I wasn't in the attic anymore when all was said and done. I ****ed up my neck, back, hips, and SI joints. I have over a dozen injections, nerve blocks, have had hip surgery and had my pelvis fused to my spine on my left side. It's looking like my right side will be done too. I've been doing PT 2-3x week for nearly two years as well- The fall was 3/20/17

To answer your question, I don't take them to get high. Even being on the dosages I've been on for 1.5 years and have never once taken more than prescribed. That said, after about a month I'd start getting "dope sick" if I went any longer than about 18 hours without taking something. This is nasty shit and I cannot wait until the day that I can start tapering down and then eventually off.

While I personally don't like the sedation I feel on a fairly regular basis (I don't even drink mind you) I can absolutely see how this stuff can hook you. Just be careful whenever they throw this shit at you, which is done far too often by far too many doctors.

Goodness. This sounds like a horrible ordeal.

[Naptown Chief]

Most offices cannot accept these meds. They need to go to a law enforcement office or pharmacy with a controlled substance drop box

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. My apologies for giving false information then. Perhaps I'd be better suited returning mine to pharmacy from now on, although my doctor has never said anything. My primary is also apart of the local (massive) hospital system though. There's a pharmacy a few floors down and they're directly connected to the hospital itself (skywalk across the road). Perhaps that's why?

[Naptown Chief]

Goodness. This sounds like a horrible ordeal.

Yeah, thanks brother. I omitted the part about worker's comp because that could easily be a novel in itself

[frozenchief]

Disagree. A physical addiction takes far less than months. The CDC recommends keeping acute scripts 3 days or less, many pharmacies won't fill new scripts with a duration greater than 7 days.

I disagree based upon my own research and observations. And the reason thatpharmacids won’t fill those scripts is because the DEA has prosecuted doctors for “over-prescribing medications”, even though DEA agents aren’t doctors. I’ve handled those cases as well.

[SupDock]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. My apologies for giving false information then. Perhaps I'd be better suited returning mine to pharmacy from now on, although my doctor has never said anything. My primary is also apart of the local (massive) hospital system though. There's a pharmacy a few floors down and they're directly connected to the hospital itself (skywalk across the road). Perhaps that's why?

That is most likely why, and likely isn't a big issue. You really need a DEA license to transport the med for disposal, and you would have to really rely on the people to actually dispose it. I know my office doesn't accept meds for this reason

[SupDock]

I disagree based upon my own research and observations. And the reason thatpharmacids won’t fill those scripts is because the DEA has prosecuted doctors for “over-prescribing medications”, even though DEA agents aren’t doctors. I’ve handled those cases as well.

Disagree based on my medical license and DEA license

[frozenchief]

Disagree based on my medical license and DEA license

Then we agree to disagree.

[SupDock]

Then we agree to disagree.

so your claim is that you do not risk a physical opiate addiction unless you take the medication for months? That's just completely false

Here is a CDC article addressing this
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a1.htm

[Holladay]

Get off them as soon as possible even if you have a some pain. You are hardcore and can handle it. Save the leftovers in case you have a really bad day. That's what I do.

What is you plan for strengthening your ankle when its healed? You'll obviously do some physical therapy, but I always do a little extra. Yoga...weights...shower exercises...whatever.

1st paragraph is spot on. Reading other posts, I will get 800 mg ibuprofen.

2nd paragraph I have a close friend that is a PT. I'll see what he recommends.

In HS, I sprained my left ankle badly. The Doc said it would have been better to have broken it. I had 6 weeks to report to Basic Training. 3 weeks in the cast, then 2.5 weeks doing hydrotherapy involving hot and cold temps: 5 min in ice water doing range of motion, 5 min in hot water, then 4,3,2,1 min. I did that for 2 weeks in the HS boys locker room.

Totally SUCKED. It worked. I was running at Basic. Miracle.

I'm not sure, as an older person, that I have the nads to carry through. I sure as hell gonna try.

Now hyrdrocodone - with a few drinks - that's the stuff.

They gave me some this Hydrocod/Acetam 7.5-325 mg on my first day before surgery. Didn't do squat except made me sleepy.

Are you kidding? Those things make you feel amazing. When I got my wisdom teeth out I was popping one every 2 hours or so and when I stopped I got the worst headache I've ever had in my life.

Nope. Thus OP question

shower exercises

Humm. Reread the first paragraph about PT. Does/could this involve my wife?

[frozenchief]

so your claim is that you do not risk a physical opiate addiction unless you take the medication for months? That's just completely false

Here is a CDC article addressing this
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a1.htm

No. My claim is that the risk of addiction from taking meds for a short time after a surgery is quite small and that a longer time is usually (emphasis on usually) necessary to develop a physical addiction.

[Simply Red]

Don't take oxy, it's heroin

you should request something else

Heroin is better - just gets expensive...

[SupDock]

No. My claim is that the risk of addiction from taking meds for a short time after a surgery is quite small and that a longer time is usually (emphasis on usually) necessary to develop a physical addiction.

Quite small is not accurate, check out the link. And this is what you said

"Second are those who develop physical addiction. These people start with some kind of injury and wind up needing meds to manage their pain. If your injury was relatively recent, this is way too early to say this is the case. This type of addiction takes months, if not longer"

That is incorrect, and my opinion dangerous, advice.

From the CDC article
The probability of long-term opioid use increases most sharply in the first days of therapy, particularly after 5 days or 1 month of opioids have been prescribed, and levels off after approximately 12 weeks of therapy. The rate of long-term use was relatively low (6.0% on opioids 1 year later) for persons with at least 1 day of opioid therapy, but increased to 13.5% for persons whose first episode of use was for ≥8 days and to 29.9% when the first episode of use was for ≥31 days.


I hate to derail the thread but this is important to me

[displacedinMN]

Most offices cannot accept these meds. They need to go to a law enforcement office or pharmacy with a controlled substance drop box

I did that with a lot of things.

[aces and eights]

I really thought this was an Eric Berry tell all.

[JakeF]

My big dogs were playing with me while I was on a sheet of ice. Boom goes the dynamite!

Surgery, plates and screws. I have a bottle of Oxycodone 5 mg x 42 pills. 1 pill every 4 hrs.

The day after op, I was popping them like candy. Helped a bit. 3 days after, 1 per 3.5 hrs. 6 days post op I will take 2-3 for the whole day. Wakeup, Bedtime and a misc.

So the question is how does a person become addicted to these suckers?

I still have 5 more weeks in the cast, then 2-4 in a boot.

Tomorrow, I'll see if just ibuprofen 200 mg will do.

Do they use get high? Trips? Or is there pseudo pain that people use to feel better?
If the pain makes you feel like you aren't taking anything then you won't get addicted. When they start making you feel GOOD then you need to cut it back.

Remember, addiction and physical dependency are different. Addiction is mental, dependency is you body. You can get over physical dependency after a few rough days. It's the addiction you need to avoid. The feeling good is what you want to avoid.

[frozenchief]

so your claim is that you do not risk a physical opiate addiction unless you take the medication for months? That's just completely false

Here is a CDC article addressing this
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a1.htm

For some reason it posted my answer before I finished and it's just easier to put this in one place. No, my claim is that the risks that someone will develop an addiction to opioids based solely upon a script for post-surgical pain is small, certainly small enough to not be in pain for fear of addiction. The article you supplied actually supports my position in several ways.

First, the article addresses how many people, having started opioids, are still using them a year later. The article notes that about only 6% of people are using opioids a year later. Second, the article just focuses upon use to manage pain and does not focus upon withdrawal symptoms should someone quit. If you need to continue taking the pills because you are still in pain, then I think it's better to keep taking the pills. But if you are taking the pills because it is pleasurable, because you have some psychological need to or you suffer withdrawal symptoms, then it is better to quit taking the medications. The article does not address this distinction.

The article notes that crucial days are the fifth and thirtieth, meaning that continuing to take the meds after those days demonstrates a higher risk (again, not a certainty) of having to continue to use the medications. This makes sense from a pain standpoint: if your body hasn't adjusted after thirty days, then its odds of adjusting are quite low.

One reason I expect we disagree is because we are looking at the data from two different fields of study. In my field of study, mere use a year after an injury would not mean addiction. If someone were in a horrible car crash and crushed several vertebrae, pelvis and legs, I would not be surprised if that person needed pain management for the rest of their life. But that it because of the physical condition of their body, not because they are demonstrating drug-seeking behavior.

One reason for my skepticism is I see DEA agents, the CDC and National Office of Drug Policy (or whatever their name is) put out ads that really do not reflect the reality of recreational/addictive drug use. "One Hit of Meth (or fill in the drug) Will Make You An Addict!!!!" scream the headlines. The reality is far different. Most people don't start recreational drug use by using meth. And most people who are willing to recreationally use meth/heroin/cocaine/oxy have already heavily dabbled in drug use and are thus more at risk for drug-seeking behavior.

One deficiency with the paper you posted is that participants had to not abuse substances for the previous six months. That says to me that the participants in that study are more likely to be using opioids because they actually need pain meds than because they are exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.

To sum, then, I do not think that OP's finishing his script of oxys to address pain after surgery will suddenly convert him into a mindless drug-seeker, destroying his life as he seeks more and more drugs. And I think that our current drug scare about addiction has done more harm than good by causing some people who legitimately are in pain because of injury/accident/surgery to avoid pain meds for fear they will suddenly turn into addicts.

I do recognize that abuse of oxys is higher right now than it has been. By abuse, I mean use of a drug for non-medicinal purposes. Taking 10+ a day is an indication of abuse. Grinding them up and snorting them is an indication of abuse. SMoking them is an indication of abuse. None of these were covered in your article and I seriously doubt that OP will be doing this by the time he finishes his prescription.

Such behavior is occurring more with oxys now because compared to some other drugs, oxys are currently easier to obtain. Demand for recreational drugs is similar to a balloon. It stays constant* while prohibition efforts tend to focus upon one drug at the expense of others. You can think of this as squeezing one end of the balloon. Yes, it will get smaller but the other end will bulge out of your hand. So prohibition enforcement focuses on heroin and meth becuase popular. THey focus on meth and oxys become popular. Oxys are likely to remain popular anyway because they come from pharmaceutical companies and thus their dosage is known and any fillers are safe for human consumption.

Since your article does not address any of those circumstances and appears instead to focus upon those who are legitimately using opioids, I do not find it relevant when discussing whether a short-term use of opioids will create drug-seeking behavior and I therefore stand by my earlier statements.


* since passage of the Harrison Narcotics Act of 1913, about 1.5% of the American population has demonstrated drug-seeking or addictive behavior. THat might rise a bit to 1.7%. Might fall to 1.25%. but its generally been a pretty straight line.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Post surgical Norco 5/325 not doing shit for me. Doc wrote me for the 7.5/325. Hope that helps.

[J Diddy]

I just do crack. Worse case I get some tooth loss and fuck a guy named Steve.

[Munson]

Several years ago, I pulled something in my lower back. It hurt so bad that I couldn't even stand up straight. I was hunched over like an 80 year old man, even though I was around 30 at the time.

I ended up taking a combination of hydrocodone (painkiller) and flexeril (muscle relaxer) for about 2 weeks. Those pills worked so great it was almost scary. I got the deepest, most peaceful sleep I've ever had in my life. Even though I personally didn't feel the slightest bit addicted, I can see how other people could get hooked.

I stopped taking the pills as soon as I could because the opioids mess with your digestive system. My intestines were so backed up that you could see it on an x-ray.

[Halfcan]

Broken ankle- no problem- Veech will still sign you to a 3 year deal for 28 million!

[RINGLEADER]

They just make me go to sleep.

[58-4ever]

don't be a pussy. just don't get a refill.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Don't take oxy, it's heroin

you should request something else

This is incorrect.

That's too bad. You didn't have to do that. Most news stories are designed to scare you and this whole 'opioid addiction epidemic' is part and parcel of that. I have had my appendix and my gall bladder removed. I took the pain meds until I really didn't hurt anymore. That was about 10-14 days.

This is dangerously ill-informed.

This. Take them to your primary. They'll be more than happy to discard them for you. I did this with every bottle of pills as I built up to my eventual dosage. I started on a substantially lower dose but it didn't touch the pain. Truth be told, I could probably take higher but I'd rather endure my current pain than continue higher up the narcotics ladder.

You cannot do this; you can only take controlled substances back to a select few year-round locations designated for year-round takeback or thousands of designated sites on the DEA's annual TakeBack day, which is in late April this year.

I disagree based upon my own research and observations. And the reason thatpharmacids won’t fill those scripts is because the DEA has prosecuted doctors for “over-prescribing medications”, even though DEA agents aren’t doctors. I’ve handled those cases as well.

Pharmacists won't fill those scripts because they don't want to contribute to abuse and diversion of opioids, and there are usually a few doctors in every town that will over-prescribe meds.

No. My claim is that the risk of addiction from taking meds for a short time after a surgery is quite small and that a longer time is usually (emphasis on usually) necessary to develop a physical addiction.

You aren't qualified to make these claims.

[SupDock]

For some reason it posted my answer before I finished and it's just easier to put this in one place. No, my claim is that the risks that someone will develop an addiction to opioids based solely upon a script for post-surgical pain is small, certainly small enough to not be in pain for fear of addiction. The article you supplied actually supports my position in several ways.

First, the article addresses how many people, having started opioids, are still using them a year later. The article notes that about only 6% of people are using opioids a year later. Second, the article just focuses upon use to manage pain and does not focus upon withdrawal symptoms should someone quit. If you need to continue taking the pills because you are still in pain, then I think it's better to keep taking the pills. But if you are taking the pills because it is pleasurable, because you have some psychological need to or you suffer withdrawal symptoms, then it is better to quit taking the medications. The article does not address this distinction.

The article notes that crucial days are the fifth and thirtieth, meaning that continuing to take the meds after those days demonstrates a higher risk (again, not a certainty) of having to continue to use the medications. This makes sense from a pain standpoint: if your body hasn't adjusted after thirty days, then its odds of adjusting are quite low.

One reason I expect we disagree is because we are looking at the data from two different fields of study. In my field of study, mere use a year after an injury would not mean addiction. If someone were in a horrible car crash and crushed several vertebrae, pelvis and legs, I would not be surprised if that person needed pain management for the rest of their life. But that it because of the physical condition of their body, not because they are demonstrating drug-seeking behavior.

One reason for my skepticism is I see DEA agents, the CDC and National Office of Drug Policy (or whatever their name is) put out ads that really do not reflect the reality of recreational/addictive drug use. "One Hit of Meth (or fill in the drug) Will Make You An Addict!!!!" scream the headlines. The reality is far different. Most people don't start recreational drug use by using meth. And most people who are willing to recreationally use meth/heroin/cocaine/oxy have already heavily dabbled in drug use and are thus more at risk for drug-seeking behavior.

One deficiency with the paper you posted is that participants had to not abuse substances for the previous six months. That says to me that the participants in that study are more likely to be using opioids because they actually need pain meds than because they are exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.

To sum, then, I do not think that OP's finishing his script of oxys to address pain after surgery will suddenly convert him into a mindless drug-seeker, destroying his life as he seeks more and more drugs. And I think that our current drug scare about addiction has done more harm than good by causing some people who legitimately are in pain because of injury/accident/surgery to avoid pain meds for fear they will suddenly turn into addicts.

I do recognize that abuse of oxys is higher right now than it has been. By abuse, I mean use of a drug for non-medicinal purposes. Taking 10+ a day is an indication of abuse. Grinding them up and snorting them is an indication of abuse. SMoking them is an indication of abuse. None of these were covered in your article and I seriously doubt that OP will be doing this by the time he finishes his prescription.

Such behavior is occurring more with oxys now because compared to some other drugs, oxys are currently easier to obtain. Demand for recreational drugs is similar to a balloon. It stays constant* while prohibition efforts tend to focus upon one drug at the expense of others. You can think of this as squeezing one end of the balloon. Yes, it will get smaller but the other end will bulge out of your hand. So prohibition enforcement focuses on heroin and meth becuase popular. THey focus on meth and oxys become popular. Oxys are likely to remain popular anyway because they come from pharmaceutical companies and thus their dosage is known and any fillers are safe for human consumption.

Since your article does not address any of those circumstances and appears instead to focus upon those who are legitimately using opioids, I do not find it relevant when discussing whether a short-term use of opioids will create drug-seeking behavior and I therefore stand by my earlier statements.


* since passage of the Harrison Narcotics Act of 1913, about 1.5% of the American population has demonstrated drug-seeking or addictive behavior. THat might rise a bit to 1.7%. Might fall to 1.25%. but its generally been a pretty straight line.

Respectfully, you are way off base and unqualified to make these claims.

This article in no way supports your argument.

[kc rush]

Several years ago, I pulled something in my lower back. It hurt so bad that I couldn't even stand up straight. I was hunched over like an 80 year old man, even though I was around 30 at the time.

I ended up taking a combination of hydrocodone (painkiller) and flexeril (muscle relaxer) for about 2 weeks. Those pills worked so great it was almost scary. I got the deepest, most peaceful sleep I've ever had in my life. Even though I personally didn't feel the slightest bit addicted, I can see how other people could get hooked.

I stopped taking the pills as soon as I could because the opioids mess with your digestive system. My intestines were so backed up that you could see it on an x-ray.

Broke my hand and had to have surgery. The opioids backed me up too. Quit them after a few days and dealt with it.

Not able to post video with this device, but the "Frank can't poop" vid is good for a laugh.


https://youtu.be/cNQ3sxvslhQ

[frozenchief]

This is incorrect.



This is dangerously ill-informed.

No, it isn't. Most people are responsible and take meds responsibly. While I would be a fool to say it never happens, the odds of someone developing drug-seeking behavior by following their physician's advice is small. Avoiding taking pain meds when you are in legitimate pain and following a doctor's orders simply to avoid anti-drug hysteria is foolish. Human being have been taking drugs for millenia. It isn't going to stop. It is hard-wired into our brains as higher-functioning mammals. The idea that you can become helplessly enslaved to some drug without your knowing about it is simply hysterical.

Look at how many people drink alcohol. Yet on a percentage basis, far more abuse alcohol than opioids. Roughly 15% of people who drink alcohol abuse alcohol yet the CDC study cited earlier, which did not distinguish between use and abuse, noted 6% of opioid users were using a year after their prescription.

I'm not saying to not be careful and I'm not saying that this is no big deal. But if I got on this board and said, "Hey, I had a drink of whiskey last night and it tasted good but I'm really concerned if I drink tonight I will become an addict," most people would say, "My experience contradicts your fears." Yes, some people do develop an addiction to alcohol. Yes, you should be careful. But you should also weigh the risks and having the government and the media hysterically blare out worst case scenarios does not allow for a reasonable assessment of the risks and a rational weighing of options.

You cannot do this; you can only take controlled substances back to a select few year-round locations designated for year-round takeback or thousands of designated sites on the DEA's annual TakeBack day, which is in late April this year.



Pharmacists won't fill those scripts because they don't want to contribute to abuse and diversion of opioids, and there are usually a few doctors in every town that will over-prescribe meds.



You aren't qualified to make these claims.

I've been a criminal defense attorney for 25 years. I was a public defender for about 8 of those years 4 of them in rural Alaska where the rates of drug abuse are beyond description.

You ever address a 14 year old's addiction problem because she is huffing gas to stop thinking about when she was gang raped and she lives in a dry village so she cannot afford the $150 for a 750ml bottle of rot gut vodka? I have.

You ever represent someone whose alcohol problem is so bad that her BAC was over .5 when she was arrested for DUI (legal limit is .08 and .4% is generally considered fatal)? I have.

You ever represent someone who cannot really finish a sentence because he was grinding up oxys and smoking them for several years? I have.

I've represented people who started abusing oxys because their body hurt after years of pouring concrete but without health insurance, they had no access to health care. I've represented people who started drinking to stop thinking about the death of their child. I've represented people who refuse to touch drugs but make a good amount of money off it. I've represented physicians who were investigated for 'over-prescribing'. I've represented people prosecuted for forging prescriptions when they were caught seeking their fifth oxy prescription in one day (different doctors and different pharmacies).

The majority of my clients have addiction issues of some kind. I have hired numerous experts regarding substance abuse, drug-seeking behavior, psychological effects of various chemicals, recidivism, treatment and "cure". I have worked with treatment providers, treatment courts, clients, prosecutors, probation officers, physicians, social workers, and therapists to address my client's needs and help them get treatment. I have read numerous article, treatises and journals about addiction in an effort to represent my clients.

No, I am not a physician, nor am I a drug treatment provider, but based upon my experience and what I have studied, as outlined above, I am qualified to say that the risks someone will develop drug-seeking behavior from taking pain meds as directed following surgery are low.

[BigRedChief]

I’ve taken Oxy for chronic pain. After the first couple of days, never got “high” from it. Never brought full pain relief. Just level 8 pain down to 3-5. Took it for years.

Only got a couple of weeks of insomnia getting off it. Cold turkey worked for me. But, you can just read anywhere that my experience is different from most. That shit is highly addictive. Take only as really really needed to function as a human being.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Wus!
Broken foot, broken hand, vasectomy, and prostate removed....no meds except ibuprofen.

[frozenchief]

Respectfully, you are way off base and unqualified to make these claims.

This article in no way supports your argument.

Your answer is not an answer to the points I raise but an attack upon my credentials. As such, it is logically fallacious and unrelated to this discussion.

We disagree about the potential risk of following a physician's recommended pain medication. I believe the risk of developing drug-seeking behavior is low. You disagree. Given your apparent perception of risk, I would expect that you would not prescribe any opioids. If you do prescribe opioids for pain you are logically inconsistent with your stated opinion about the risk of developing drug-seeking behavior.

[SupDock]

No, I am not a physician, nor am I a drug treatment provider, but based upon my experience and what I have studied, as outlined above, I am qualified to say that the risks someone will develop drug-seeking behavior from taking pain meds as directed following surgery are low.

You are in no way qualified to make that statement.

The current recommendation is to remain on opiates for the shortest time possible for acute and post-operative pain due to the risk of dependence.

You have back-pedaled significantly from your original statement that it takes "months or longer" to develop an addiction. I have shown you evidence that the risk increases significantly at the 5 day and 15 day mark.

[SupDock]

Your answer is not an answer to the points I raise but an attack upon my credentials. As such, it is logically fallacious and unrelated to this discussion.

We disagree about the potential risk of following a physician's recommended pain medication. I believe the risk of developing drug-seeking behavior is low. You disagree. Given your apparent perception of risk, I would expect that you would not prescribe any opioids. If you do prescribe opioids for pain you are logically inconsistent with your stated opinion about the risk of developing drug-seeking behavior.

you are wrong and have no credentials to talk about the risk of developing an opiate dependence. There is no fallacy in that statement. most of what you say contradicts empiric evidence which I have quoted.

I never said anything about taking opiates as prescribed, all I said was that there is risk of dependence even from even a short-term prescription.

I do prescribe opiates, and follow the CDC guidelines to minimize risk, because the risk definitely exists. This contradicts nothing that I say. All medications have risks, controlled medications have higher risks that need to be taken very seriously.

[BigRedChief]

you are wrong and have no credentials to talk about the risk of developing an opiate dependence. There is no fallacy in that statement. most of what you say contradicts empiric evidence which I have quoted.

I never said anything about taking opiates as prescribed, all I said was that there is risk of dependence even from even a short-term prescription.

I do prescribe opiates, and follow the CDC guidelines to minimize risk, because the risk definitely exists. This contradicts nothing that I say. All medications have risks, controlled medications have higher risks that need to be taken very seriously.I doubled my Oxy after two months to 325. But stayed at that dosage for years. Just took 40 a month. I was always concerned about addiction. Didn’t work as well as it did at first but didn’t go up on the number taken or dosage. Never added alcohol or any other drug to supplement.

I do think that addiction is tied to your personality or pre-disposition to addiction. I was able to get off them pretty easily compared to others. Consider myself really lucky.

[SupDock]

I doubled my Oxy after two months to 325. But stayed at that dosage for years. Just took 40 a month. I was always concerned about addiction. Didn’t work as well as it did at first but didn’t go up on the number taken or dosage.

I do think that addiction is tied to your personality or pre-disposition to addiction. I was able to get off them pretty easily compared to others. Consider myself really lucky.

Congratulations on getting off and staying off. How did you feel after you were off?

[BigRedChief]

Congratulations on getting off and staying off. How did you feel after you were off?I got the shot of steroids directly into the spine. That got me to pain free. That was the most wonderful thing to be pain free. Not needing the Oxy anymore was nothing compared to that feeling. I did a shit ton of drugs in my youth. Not interested in reliving those days from decades ago. :)

[frozenchief]

you are wrong and have no credentials to talk about the risk of developing an opiate dependence. There is no fallacy in that statement. most of what you say contradicts empiric evidence which I have quoted.

I never said anything about taking opiates as prescribed, all I said was that there is risk of dependence even from even a short-term prescription.

I do prescribe opiates, and follow the CDC guidelines to minimize risk, because the risk definitely exists. This contradicts nothing that I say. All medications have risks, controlled medications have higher risks that need to be taken very seriously.

You say I am wrong when I have consistently said that risk is low. You say I am wrong when you cite a study that did not discuss drug-seeking behavior. it merely described use, which could be because of drug-seeking behavior and could be someone is seriously injured.

Here are two scenarios:

1. Person is prescribed opioids by physician. Person takes them long enough to develop drug-seeking behavior. Because of that drug-seeking behavior, that person is still using opioids 1 year after initial prescription.

2. Person is prescribed opioids by physician. Person continues to be in great pain because they suffered tremendous injuries. Because those injuries cause that person pain a year later, that person continues to use opioids a year after initial prescription.

The article you gave made no effort to distinguish between scenario 1 and scenario 2, yet that is a significant distinction on this topic. The article only notes "drug use" when the distinction between those two scenarios is indeed significant.

It also noted that taking opioids for longer than 30 days is a sign of a risk that someone will keep taking them. That is consistent with what I said.

OP is concerned about being addiction. Fine. That is a good sign. It shows that he has some positive incentives to avoid drug-seeking behavior and lowers the risk that he will wind up demonstrating drug-seeking behavior. This is something that is taught frequently in drug-counseling treatment: if you don't want to change, you won't. If OP doesn't want to be an addict, he has a powerful incentive to avoid such. And taking opioids for a few days is a low (emphasis on low) risk. So is riding in a car. So is flying on a Boeing 737-Max. So is drinking booze. So are a lot of things.

I get that there are few ways to ruin your life than by abusing controlled substances. and I agree that you shouldn't take opioids longer than necessary for a whole bunch of reasons (one reason why marijuana can be a good idea for persons with pain management issues). But paranoia/hysteria about addiction does not help the situation at all.

Part of my issue is I do not like the CDC or the DEA. I think it is not the government's business what medications someone is on. And from my side of the fence, I see a lot of harm done in the name of harm prevention, including people addicted to opioids. And an inordinate focus upon the negative without putting it into context is a way to do harm in the name of harm prevention.

As an example, are you familiar with the death of Jonathan Swift? I give his death because it is historically documented. Modern medicine might have been able to treat him but his is a case in which concern for addiction should go right out the window. And I've seen the DEA prosecute physicians for "over-prescribing" in similar situations. A friend of mine represented a physician who took pain patients few other physicians would. He would not accept patients who demonstrated drug-seeking behavior. If you went to another physician or to a pharmacy other than the one agreed upon between his client and the patient, the patient was kicked out. Many of his patients had suffered severe injuries or were in chronic pain for other reasons. The DEA arrested him. His patients had nowhere to go. I know of one patient who killed herself because of the pain. All so the DEA could show that they were serious about stomping out 'drug abuse'. He was acquitted at trial, but he had learned his lesson.

I think that is inhumane and I think DEA policies are more designed to make sure the populace knows the government is in charge than for any of our well-being. If the DEA was truly concerned about over-prescription of drugs, they would focus upon over-prescription of antibiotics because that creates a much greater public health issue than over-prescription of opioids.

Apparently we are not going to agree. That is fine. I will stipulate that you do not accept my qualifications and that you think I am wrong.

[SupDock]

You say I am wrong when I have consistently said that risk is low. You say I am wrong when you cite a study that did not discuss drug-seeking behavior. it merely described use, which could be because of drug-seeking behavior and could be someone is seriously injured.

Here are two scenarios:

1. Person is prescribed opioids by physician. Person takes them long enough to develop drug-seeking behavior. Because of that drug-seeking behavior, that person is still using opioids 1 year after initial prescription.

2. Person is prescribed opioids by physician. Person continues to be in great pain because they suffered tremendous injuries. Because those injuries cause that person pain a year later, that person continues to use opioids a year after initial prescription.

The article you gave made no effort to distinguish between scenario 1 and scenario 2, yet that is a significant distinction on this topic. The article only notes "drug use" when the distinction between those two scenarios is indeed significant.

It also noted that taking opioids for longer than 30 days is a sign of a risk that someone will keep taking them. That is consistent with what I said.

OP is concerned about being addiction. Fine. That is a good sign. It shows that he has some positive incentives to avoid drug-seeking behavior and lowers the risk that he will wind up demonstrating drug-seeking behavior. This is something that is taught frequently in drug-counseling treatment: if you don't want to change, you won't. If OP doesn't want to be an addict, he has a powerful incentive to avoid such. And taking opioids for a few days is a low (emphasis on low) risk. So is riding in a car. So is flying on a Boeing 737-Max. So is drinking booze. So are a lot of things.

I get that there are few ways to ruin your life than by abusing controlled substances. and I agree that you shouldn't take opioids longer than necessary for a whole bunch of reasons (one reason why marijuana can be a good idea for persons with pain management issues). But paranoia/hysteria about addiction does not help the situation at all.

Part of my issue is I do not like the CDC or the DEA. I think it is not the government's business what medications someone is on. And from my side of the fence, I see a lot of harm done in the name of harm prevention, including people addicted to opioids. And an inordinate focus upon the negative without putting it into context is a way to do harm in the name of harm prevention.

As an example, are you familiar with the death of Jonathan Swift? I give his death because it is historically documented. Modern medicine might have been able to treat him but his is a case in which concern for addiction should go right out the window. And I've seen the DEA prosecute physicians for "over-prescribing" in similar situations. A friend of mine represented a physician who took pain patients few other physicians would. He would not accept patients who demonstrated drug-seeking behavior. If you went to another physician or to a pharmacy other than the one agreed upon between his client and the patient, the patient was kicked out. Many of his patients had suffered severe injuries or were in chronic pain for other reasons. The DEA arrested him. His patients had nowhere to go. I know of one patient who killed herself because of the pain. All so the DEA could show that they were serious about stomping out 'drug abuse'. He was acquitted at trial, but he had learned his lesson.

I think that is inhumane and I think DEA policies are more designed to make sure the populace knows the government is in charge than for any of our well-being. If the DEA was truly concerned about over-prescription of drugs, they would focus upon over-prescription of antibiotics because that creates a much greater public health issue than over-prescription of opioids.

Apparently we are not going to agree. That is fine. I will stipulate that you do not accept my qualifications and that you think I am wrong.

I am not talking about drug seeking behavior because that is extremely hard to study. I am talking about risk of developing an opiate dependence, which goes up the longer you are on the medication and which the study clearly demonstrates.


Opiates have consistently failed to demonstrate long-term benefit in chronic musculoskeletal pain, which is why as a prescribing physician I'm trying to minimize the risk that a patient will end up dependent on the medication long-term. from a prescribing point of view there is little reason to distinguish between the two situations. My goal is for my patients to not be on chronic opiate therapy for musculoskeletal pain, because their use in this situation is not evidence driven. I am not discounting the fact that in a small minority of patients it will be necessary to be on opiates long-term for their musculoskeletal pain, merely stating that this is the exception rather than the rule.

also, 30 days or more is not consistent with what you said. Will you please address the fact that you said it takes "months or longer" to develop opiate dependence. This is the crux of my disagreement with you

OP should definitely continue his prescription as his pain dictates, but there is definitely risk involved in even short term prescriptions. In OPs case the benefits definitely outweigh the risks.

[frozenchief]

I am not talking about drug seeking behavior because that is extremely hard to study. I am talking about risk of developing an opiate dependence, which goes up the longer you are on the medication and which the study clearly demonstrates.


Opiates have consistently failed to demonstrate long-term benefit in chronic musculoskeletal pain, which is why as a prescribing physician I'm trying to minimize the risk that a patient will end up dependent on the medication long-term. from a prescribing point of view there is little reason to distinguish between the two situations. My goal is for my patients to not be on chronic opiate therapy for musculoskeletal pain, because their use in this situation is not evidence driven. I am not discounting the fact that in a small minority of patients it will be necessary to be on opiates long-term for their musculoskeletal pain, merely stating that this is the exception rather than the rule.

also, 30 days or more is not consistent with what you said. Will you please address the fact that you said this takes "months or longer" to develop opiate dependence. This is the crux of my disagreement with you

I see our disagreement. OP asked about becoming 'addicted'. In my experience, 'addiction' = 'drug-seeking behavior'. In your experience, dependence can be addiction. If someone is merely dependent, they might not display or develop drug-seeking behavior. I would agree that dependence does not equal drug-seeking behavior and given that dependence does not create the risk of criminal prosecution or DEA interest, and that dependence, while not healthy, does not create the health risks of drug-seeking behavior*, it is much lower on my radar.

As far as "months", that is likely because its a term of art in my business. 31 days would be 2 months because it has rolled over into a second month. 61 days would be 3 months, etc. For one, as stated above I am focused on drug-seeking behavior as opposed to dependence, which I anticipate would take longer. Second, months could be two months, short as 31 days, or 4+ weeks. I regret the confusion.

* I don't see those with a drug dependence engaging in various risky behaviors, such as needle-sharing, prostitution, or cutting drugs with non-safe substances, such as lye.

[scho63]

My big dogs were playing with me while I was on a sheet of ice. Boom goes the dynamite!

Surgery, plates and screws. I have a bottle of Oxycodone 5 mg x 42 pills. 1 pill every 4 hrs.

The day after op, I was popping them like candy. Helped a bit. 3 days after, 1 per 3.5 hrs. 6 days post op I will take 2-3 for the whole day. Wakeup, Bedtime and a misc.

So the question is how does a person become addicted to these suckers?


The day you start sucking dick or taking it in the ass for for Oxy, you're an addict....:eek:

[SAUTO]

I'm not a pill or medicine taking guy.

[BWillie]

Are you kidding? Those things make you feel amazing. When I got my wisdom teeth out I was popping one every 2 hours or so and when I stopped I got the worst headache I've ever had in my life.

They do? They make me feel like shit unless I have pain. They make me very tired and woozy. I don't really understand why you would want to take them if you weren't in pain.

[KCUnited]

I only take them recreationally. Taking them for pain seems like a job.

[Pablo]

I only take them recreationally. Taking them for pain seems like a job.

My personal favorite recreational sport. Hooverin' friday night flintstones.

[Coochie liquor]

Medical marijuana is what you need. Fuck those pills. (You can send them my way to dispose of them properly)

[ghak99]

Several years ago, I pulled something in my lower back. It hurt so bad that I couldn't even stand up straight. I was hunched over like an 80 year old man, even though I was around 30 at the time.

I ended up taking a combination of hydrocodone (painkiller) and flexeril (muscle relaxer) for about 2 weeks. Those pills worked so great it was almost scary. I got the deepest, most peaceful sleep I've ever had in my life. Even though I personally didn't feel the slightest bit addicted, I can see how other people could get hooked.

I stopped taking the pills as soon as I could because the opioids mess with your digestive system. My intestines were so backed up that you could see it on an x-ray.

This was my experience, minus the log jam.

I went from not functioning at all or even being able to get off the floor and walk without help and serious spasms to a dull pain I could manage enough to care for myself. When the spasms stopped and the pain decreased to a dull manageable pain I just quit taking them. I will say I have never in my life slept better than I did on Hydrocodone. Insanely good sleep, but never a feeling of addiction.

On the other hand, I have a friend who I'm pretty sure can relapse at the mere sight of a prescription bottle. Having very different personalities, upbringings, and genetic backgrounds surely plays a part in it.

[dlphg9]

Medical marijuana is what you need. **** those pills. (You can send them my way to dispose of them properly)

Not once has weed ever taken away my pain.

[dlphg9]

They do? They make me feel like shit unless I have pain. They make me very tired and woozy. I don't really understand why you would want to take them if you weren't in pain.

What a stupid ass statement, "They do?". Nah man everyone that takes them feels like shit after they do. That's why opiates are probably the most addictive group of drugs there is. Ya know, cuz people like to feel like shit.

How many times have you taken hydro or oxy? Was it on an empty stomach?

[YontsRBake]

If people ITT are looking for an alternative to opioids for pain, I’d suggest looking into Kratom.

[Holladay]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwwataz View Post
Agreed. I've been on two 10/325 hydrocodone 3xday in conjunction with 800mg gabapentin 3-4xday, 2 8mg hydromorphone on the really bad days because of (multiple) nagging injuries from one accident. Essentially, long story short, I was in an attic doing ductwork and stepped on a stud that wasn't nailed in properly. I'm 6'1 188 before the fat jokes start. Anyway, needless to say, I wasn't in the attic anymore when all was said and done. I ****ed up my neck, back, hips, and SI joints. I have over a dozen injections, nerve blocks, have had hip surgery and had my pelvis fused to my spine on my left side. It's looking like my right side will be done too. I've been doing PT 2-3x week for nearly two years as well- The fall was 3/20/17

To answer your question, I don't take them to get high. Even being on the dosages I've been on for 1.5 years and have never once taken more than prescribed. That said, after about a month I'd start getting "dope sick" if I went any longer than about 18 hours without taking something. This is nasty shit and I cannot wait until the day that I can start tapering down and then eventually off.

While I personally don't like the sedation I feel on a fairly regular basis (I don't even drink mind you) I can absolutely see how this stuff can hook you. Just be careful whenever they throw this shit at you, which is done far too often by far too many doctors.
Goodness. This sounds like a horrible ordeal.

Holy Smokes. I will quit being a pansy and pissing in my cheerios. In my case a broken ankle child's play in comparison.

In my little experience (after I didn't bounce, I slept over night with 3 broken ankle bones with a little ibuprofen) I can compartmentalize the pain in a box and put it in a corner of my brain. Even with my small issue, it is DRAINING...physically and mentally.

I can't imagine nor want to try to imagine your situation!! I guess pain and the interpretation of pain is different and malleable to each person.

Hats off to you!

opioids mess with your digestive system. My intestines were so backed up that you could see it on an x-ray.

The Doc warned me about that. After 2 days of being clogged up, I started eating 2-3 apples per day. It didn't take too long for Mt. Vesuvius to erupt.

[Naptown Chief]

Holy Smokes. I will quit being a pansy and pissing in my cheerios. In my case a broken ankle child's play in comparison.

In my little experience (after I didn't bounce, I slept over night with 3 broken ankle bones with a little ibuprofen) I can compartmentalize the pain in a box and put it in a corner of my brain. Even with my small issue, it is DRAINING...physically and mentally.

I can't imagine nor want to try to imagine your situation!! I guess pain and the interpretation of pain is different and malleable to each person.

Hats off to you!



The Doc warned me about that. After 2 days of being clogged up, I started eating 2-3 apples per day. It didn't take too long for Mt. Vesuvius to erupt.

It's a shitty situation for sure but it is getting better, albeit incredibly slow because this is going through worker's comp. It wasn't meant to come off as a pissing contest though if it seemed that way.

I've broken my ankle too.. That shit hurts. Really fucking hurts. I absolutely took the Vicodin they prescribed me. I think, like you, it was something like 5-7 days?

[Naptown Chief]

Oh, I'd actually missed the 200mg ibuprofen comment at the end of your op... They do make 800mg that your doc could call in, or alternatively you could take up to 4 of the 200s at once twice a day. I've found those to be useful over the years for my various breaks, sprains, the time I dislocated/separated/tore rotator cuff, and aches from rupturing one, and partially tearing another, ligament in the same ankle I broke once and sprained several times afterwards. Aleve also works wonders man once the initial pain subsides

Side note- my ankle became permanently weak after I broke it at 13. I've seriously rolled/sprained my ankle walking in a straight line because it's still, 22 years later, so weak. So do be prepared for that possibility

[Munson]

The Doc warned me about that. After 2 days of being clogged up, I started eating 2-3 apples per day. It didn't take too long for Mt. Vesuvius to erupt.

I took some milk of magnesia to clear out the log jam.

[Naptown Chief]

I took some milk of magnesia to clear out the log jam.

I take senakot every few days to help move things along. I also drink a shit ton of water, which helps hydrate your stools.

[Holladay]

It wasn't meant to come off as a pissing contest

None taken. Just an observation like if I'm pissing in my cheerios on a down day, I thank God that I wasn't born in Ethiopia. It is an attitude adjuster. Frame of mind.

You, like me, are optimists. That is a positive life path.

[BigRedChief]

Oh, I'd actually missed the 200mg ibuprofen comment at the end of your op... They do make 800mg that your doc could call in, or alternatively you could take up to 4 of the 200s at once twice a day. I've found those to be useful over the years for my various breaks, sprains, the time I dislocated/separated/tore rotator cuff, and aches from rupturing one, and partially tearing another, ligament in the same ankle I broke once and sprained several times afterwards. Aleve also works wonders man once the initial pain subsides

Side note- my ankle became permanently weak after I broke it at 13. I've seriously rolled/sprained my ankle walking in a straight line because it's still, 22 years later, so weak. So do be prepared for that possibilityI took 1600mg ibuprofen during work days. Didn’t try weed because of drug testing.

[TLO]

I took 1600mg ibuprofen during work days. Didn’t try weed because of drug testing.

1600mg at a time?

[BigRedChief]

1600mg at a time?no, per day. Dr. told me not to exceed that per day. Don't take more than 800mg every 4 hours.1600mg per day.

[oldman]

I had a similar injury several years ago. Oxy wasn't widely available until later, so they kept trying to push the Tylenol 3s on me. No thanks, I'll just use ibuprofen. I took 800 mg 3 times a day until the boot came off and then slowly worked down to 400 once a day. I've just seen too many people get dependent on that stuff. I don't think it's weakness on the part of those that get hooked, it's a physical addiction that Purude Pharma is all too glad to supply.

[Naptown Chief]

1600mg at a time?

I was wondering the same thing ROFL
Was thinking "goodbye liver"

[Naptown Chief]

I had a similar injury several years ago. Oxy wasn't widely available until later, so they kept trying to push the Tylenol 3s on me. No thanks, I'll just use ibuprofen. I took 800 mg 3 times a day until the boot came off and then slowly worked down to 400 once a day. I've just seen too many people get dependent on that stuff. I don't think it's weakness on the part of those that get hooked, it's a physical addiction that Purude Pharma is all too glad to supply.

They actually started me on Tylenol 3, then 4, before being bumped to hydrocodone 5, 7.5, and ultimately the 10s. Even though the opiate dosage is higher in the hydrocodone, I felt substantially more lethargic on the codeine

[BigRedChief]

The Doc warned me about that. After 2 days of being clogged up, I started eating 2-3 apples per day. It didn't take too long for Mt. Vesuvius to erupt.Never had that issue myself.
In my little experience (after I didn't bounce, I slept over night with 3 broken ankle bones with a little ibuprofen) I can compartmentalize the pain in a box and put it in a corner of my brain. Even with my small issue, it is DRAINING...physically and mentally.

I can't imagine nor want to try to imagine your situation!! I guess pain and the interpretation of pain is different and malleable to each person.

Hats off to you!It's very draining. The work I do you have to have all your wits about you. I was soooo tired of the pain every day. Unless you have been there, its hard to explain. You cant escape chronic pain. It's always there. If my doctor had cut me off, I would have went to the street.

I had scatica. I've talked to the Dr. about what do poor people or have no access to medicine do about the pain? They have the same anatomy. Their nerve is getting pinched too. He said, a lot do street drugs or drink liters of alcohol. If I went to jail and couldn't have got the Oxy, I probably wouldn't have went to jail.

Saw the recent news that people were saying Oxy wasn't effective for chronic pain. No, its not a cure. But, it allows you to survive and live life the best you can until whatever issue caused the chronic pain is mitigated. I emerged on the other side, I'm sure there are others with similar experiences.

[BWillie]

What a stupid ass statement, "They do?". Nah man everyone that takes them feels like shit after they do. That's why opiates are probably the most addictive group of drugs there is. Ya know, cuz people like to feel like shit.

How many times have you taken hydro or oxy? Was it on an empty stomach?

Why is it stupid? My argument is they are abused because so many people have undiagnosed chronic pain - not because of any euphoric feeling you get. I get why you would take Cocaine. Why you would take Meth. I don't understand why you would take hydrocodone unless you were hurting.

[stumppy]

Why is it stupid? My argument is they are abused because so many people have undiagnosed chronic pain - not because of any euphoric feeling you get. I get why you would take Cocaine. Why you would take Meth. I don't understand why you would take hydrocodone unless you were hurting.

Because like most drugs, different people are affected in different ways by the same drug.

If you knew anything at all about what you're talking about you would know that it is that euphoric feeling that people are looking for in opiates when they are addicted to them.

[htismaqe]

Why is it stupid? My argument is they are abused because so many people have undiagnosed chronic pain - not because of any euphoric feeling you get. I get why you would take Cocaine. Why you would take Meth. I don't understand why you would take hydrocodone unless you were hurting.

Opioids (and opiates) absolutely do produce a feeling of euphoria. People tend to associate euphoria with excitement but in more general terms, euphorics produce an overwhelming feeling of satiation or happiness, unrelated to whether they are stimulants or depressants.

In fact, many people only experience euphoria with the high of a stimulant or the low of an opiate but not both. As a former drug addict that now works with drug addicts, I can tell you that most people either like uppers or downers but not both. People that like both are pretty rare.

[htismaqe]

By the way, I know a lot of people that struggle with either opioids, heroin, or both. They are quite prevalent around here. And I've never indulged once. If I get a script, they almost always go unused. As soon as the pain is gone, I don't want them anymore.

But Adderall? Give me a month supply and it will be gone in a week. Everybody is different.

[dlphg9]

Why is it stupid? My argument is they are abused because so many people have undiagnosed chronic pain - not because of any euphoric feeling you get. I get why you would take Cocaine. Why you would take Meth. I don't understand why you would take hydrocodone unless you were hurting.

How many times have you done opiates?

You have to be trolling with that shit. You think the reason opiates are so popular because a bunch of people have undiagnosed pain? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. How would you ever come to that conclusion?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

no, per day. Dr. told me not to exceed that per day. Don't take more than 800mg every 4 hours.1600mg per day.

If you don't have any drug interactions (like say, taking an ACE inhibitor or ARB for blood pressure, or are on a blood thinner) and have good renal function, the actual max is 2400mg

['Hamas' Jenkins]

They actually started me on Tylenol 3, then 4, before being bumped to hydrocodone 5, 7.5, and ultimately the 10s. Even though the opiate dosage is higher in the hydrocodone, I felt substantially more lethargic on the codeine

There's a chance you could be an ultra-rapid metabolizer of CYP 2D6. Codeine is a prodrug that is in converted to morphine. A small subset of the population has more of those specific enzymes than others. If so, a "normal" dose of codeine can actually be much higher for the person in question.

This is why codeine is not given to children anymore.

[Rawlsian]

no, per day. Dr. told me not to exceed that per day. Don't take more than 800mg every 4 hours.1600mg per day.

Math seems off here

[BWillie]

Because like most drugs, different people are affected in different ways by the same drug.

If you knew anything at all about what you're talking about you would know that it is that euphoric feeling that people are looking for in opiates when they are addicted to them.

I've taken some opioids many times after surgeries. I don't get any euphoric feeling. I get tired, woozy and receive less pain. That is all.

[BWillie]

Opioids (and opiates) absolutely do produce a feeling of euphoria. People tend to associate euphoria with excitement but in more general terms, euphorics produce an overwhelming feeling of satiation or happiness, unrelated to whether they are stimulants or depressants.

In fact, many people only experience euphoria with the high of a stimulant or the low of an opiate but not both. As a former drug addict that now works with drug addicts, I can tell you that most people either like uppers or downers but not both. People that like both are pretty rare.

Well I absolutely love to drink. Makes things really fun. I just don't do it very often. That is a downer.

I can definitely see why people would love adderall, and love that shit too. Cocaine is a little weird, but I can see the appeal. Both are uppers.

Weed makes me feel like complete shit. Really tired and not want to do anything. Just want to sit and stare at nothing at all. Not enjoyable to me, but at least I guess you are relaxed? Some people like to be relaxed.

Hydrocodone just made me not feel good, woozy and tired. No sense of any high at all.

I guess things effect me differently, or I have a different view of euphoria.

[BWillie]

How many times have you done opiates?

You have to be trolling with that shit. You think the reason opiates are so popular because a bunch of people have undiagnosed pain? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. How would you ever come to that conclusion?

Because of my experience using them. That is the only thing I can come up with because too me the only enjoyment in using them is they reduce pain.

[Pablo]

I've taken some opioids many times after surgeries. I don't get any euphoric feeling. I get tired, woozy and receive less pain. That is all.Yeah, but are you eating them like some sort of Sally or doming that shit like God intended?

[BWillie]

Yeah, but are you eating them like some sort of Sally or doming that shit like God intended?

ROFL good point. I guess if I took way more than I was supposed to I'd feel like I'd just sleep for seven days.

[dlphg9]

Because of my experience using them. That is the only thing I can come up with because too me the only enjoyment in using them is they reduce pain.

Ever taken them when you weren't in pain? I know I got some when I got my wisdom teeth taken out and didn't have any euphoria. Popped a 10 mg oxy before I went fishing and can understand how they are addictive as hell.

[penguinz]

I get no more pain relief from oxy or hydrocodone than I do a couple of Advil.

Only painkillers I can recall getting a strong pain relief from is fentanyl.

[Pablo]

I get no more pain relief from oxy or hydrocodone than I do a couple of Advil.

Only painkillers I can recall getting a strong pain relief from is fentanyl.Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Can't wait until I can buy 500 oxys in a bottle at Costco for $7 since they're essentially ibuprofen.

[penguinz]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Can't wait until I can buy 500 oxys in a bottle at Costco for $7 since they're essentially ibuprofen.Your and idiot. Do you not understand that different drugs effect people differently? My body processes pain killers way too effectively. I have had more than one surgeries that was just a local and they had to give me significantly more to prevent pain than they normally administer.

So go fuck yourself.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Your and idiot. Do you not understand that different drugs effect people differently? My body processes pain killers way too effectively. I have had more than one surgeries that was just a local and they had to give me significantly more to prevent pain than they normally administer.

So go fuck yourself.

Local anesthetics work by blocking nerve transmission and bypass first pass metabolism. How your body processes painkillers has no bearing on how a local affects you.

[Holladay]

down to 2-3 pills a day. If I just sat in my recliner all day would just 1.

1 week under my belt and better each day:)

BTW crutches suck.

[Naptown Chief]

down to 2-3 pills a day. If I just sat in my recliner all day would just 1.

1 week under my belt and better each day:)

BTW crutches suck.

How long are you on crutches? I broke my ankle at 13 and was on them 4-6 weeks. They definitely suck the more active you are... I remember my armpits being on fire after walking around school all day (San Diego. Outdoor school)

[SAUTO]

I get no more pain relief from oxy or hydrocodone than I do a couple of Advil.

Only painkillers I can recall getting a strong pain relief from is fentanyl.

I can honestly say the same thing.

[penguinz]

I can honestly say the same thing.Pablo and Hamas say we are full of shit so we must be wrong. :-)

When I had my Achilles repaired my Doc was amazed I had not only used one of my oxy’s and Din not want/need a refill. Only reason I even used that one was because when I woke up at 3am when the nerve block wore off it was on the table within reach.

[displacedinMN]

Crutches suck. Get a knee scooter if you are going out. You may look stupid, but crutches suck. Taught 6-8 weeks on one.
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/005783cb-5f55-400a-9d17-23dbd411c508_1.4816eb223dd74950ab683301d5e0c1fe.jpeg?odnHeight=180&odnWidth=180&odnBg=FFFFFF

Insurance will pay for it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Pablo and Hamas say we are full of shit so we must be wrong. :-)

When I had my Achilles repaired my Doc was amazed I had not only used one of my oxy’s and Din not want/need a refill. Only reason I even used that one was because when I woke up at 3am when the nerve block wore off it was on the table within reach.

I was not referring to how opiates affected you at all. Go back and read my post again before throwing shade.

[rabblerouser]

They actually started me on Tylenol 3, then 4, before being bumped to hydrocodone 5, 7.5, and ultimately the 10s. Even though the opiate dosage is higher in the hydrocodone, I felt substantially more lethargic on the codeine

Back in the 80s and 90s they used to give that shit out like candy. It was like a reward for going to the doctor.

I remember being like 10 and and I was having a little allergy issue, nothing big, like a scratch in my throat. My mom goes "sounds like you need some cough syrup" and called the HMO up "yes, my son is in need of an expectorant, yeah...something with Codeine...thanks."

And she went picked up this GIANT bottle of syzzurp. Without me ever seeing or even talking to the doctor. Huge. Tall boy. And I'm like, "why is my mom drinking my cough syrup?"

About an hour later and a couple decent swigs of my own, I was cleaning my room and listening to Led Zeppelin I on cassette (remember those?) and all the sudden, this overwhelming urge to lay down came over me...and as I was laying in bed, listening to Zep and staring at the posters of GNR, Mötley Crüe, and The Black Crowes on my wall (pre-grunge era), I realized exactly why my mom was drinking my cough syrup - because it was DELICIOUS.

[sd4chiefs]

I only took Opioids once about 5 years ago just before I when to bed. I spent the next four hours with major hiccups.

[rabblerouser]

I only took Opioids once about 5 years ago just before I when to bed. I spent the next four hours with major hiccups.

<a href="https://ibb.co/p30xjGj"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/2jny3m3/96233117-10220087327151735-8571136271764684800-n.jpg" alt="96233117-10220087327151735-8571136271764684800-n" border="0"></a>

[philfree]

Crazy coincident this thread. Just last Monday my Little Sister who is 53 years old got frisky and went to do a cheerleader jump and when she landed she broke both ankles. :shake: She has surgery on Tuesday but I'm sure she's on the meds. God bless her dumbass!

[rabblerouser]

Crazy coincident this thread. Just last Monday my Little Sister who is 53 years old got frisky and went to do a cheerleader jump and when she landed she broke both ankles. :shake: She has surgery on Tuesday but I'm sure she's on the meds. God bless her dumbass!

She single?

[philfree]

She single?

LOL …..run!

[rabblerouser]

LOL …..run!

Why? She sure can't ROFL

[philfree]

Why? She sure can't ROFL

ROFL

[NewChief]

My kid broke both wrists a few weeks back. One was an open fracture requiring stitches. The other needed pins. He was off the Oxy in 2 days and down to ibuprofen. We are still giving him CBD at night but no other pain meds, and that's mainly to help a 12 year old, who is used to constant athletic activity and now getting very little, sleep.

[rabblerouser]

My kid broke both wrists a few weeks back. One was an open fracture requiring stitches. The other needed pins. He was off the Oxy in 2 days and down to ibuprofen. We are still giving him CBD at night but no other pain meds, and that's mainly to help a 12 year old, who is used to constant athletic activity and now getting very little, sleep.

Jesus. That's terrible.

Wiping must suck...

[Hammock Parties]

I was lucky enough to be on painkillers post-surgery when the Clone Wars premiered.

Being high + cartoons = LIVING

[rabblerouser]

I was lucky enough to be on painkillers post-surgery when the Clone Wars premiered.

Being high + cartoons = LIVING

Amen, friend.

[Buehler445]

Why? She sure can't ROFL
ROFL

This might be your best post ever

[NewChief]

Jesus. That's terrible.

Wiping must suck...

Yeah. I thought I was done feeding him and wiping his ass. It's been a challenge. A little over a week until he gets removable braces. So that will be awesome.

[oldman]

I've broken the same ankle twice. The last time I did it, I required surgery and got an 8 inch plate along with 17 pins for my effort since both bones were broken. They kept pushing the oxy on me and I kept telling them no. It wasn't pleasant but I got by. When I had my hip replaced, they tried again with both oxy and Tylenol 3, but I'm a stubborn old coot, so all they could get down me was ibuprofen.

[BigRedChief]

I get no more pain relief from oxy or hydrocodone than I do a couple of Advil.

Only painkillers I can recall getting a strong pain relief from is fentanyl.You are trolling, right? Isn't Fentanyl what killed Prince when he thought it was Oxy? They don't give Fentanyl to use outside of a hospital?

[rabblerouser]

You are trolling, right? Isn't Fentanyl what killed Prince when he thought it was Oxy? They don't give Fentanyl to use outside of a hospital?

They gave my mom fentanyl patches to take home when she had a broken shoulder.

[rabblerouser]

I've broken the same ankle twice. The last time I did it, I required surgery and got an 8 inch plate along with 17 pins for my effort since both bones were broken. They kept pushing the oxy on me and I kept telling them no. It wasn't pleasant but I got by. When I had my hip replaced, they tried again with both oxy and Tylenol 3, but I'm a stubborn old coot, so all they could get down me was ibuprofen.

It's legal and my insurance is paying the tab?

I'll take a double.

[BigRedChief]

My kid broke both wrists a few weeks back. One was an open fracture requiring stitches. The other needed pins. He was off the Oxy in 2 days and down to ibuprofen. We are still giving him CBD at night but no other pain meds, and that's mainly to help a 12 year old, who is used to constant athletic activity and now getting very little, sleep.I'd like to know why some other kid injured his shoulder and needs Oxy initially like your son goes on to have an issue with opioids? Why does one person spiral out of control and the other person doesn't? They have the same economic and social backgrounds. Sure seems to me that we haven't figured out, as of yet, why one spirals out of control and another doesn't.

[rabblerouser]

I'd like to know why some other kid injured his shoulder and needs Oxy initially like your son goes on to have an issue with opioids? Why does one person spiral out of control and the other person doesn't? They have the same economic and social backgrounds. Sure seems to me that we haven't figured out, as of yet, why one spirals out of control and another doesn't.

It's strange. Some people just have the "addiction" gene. It seems like I couldn't get psychologically addicted to the shit if I tried. I've even had the "physical" addiction thing happen, quit cold turkey. Cigarettes? Quit cold turkey. The worst case of addiction I've personally experienced was actually caffeine, specifically Coca-Cola. That shit was horrible. Not even joking. Sometimes drank a 12 pack a day. Woke up one morning with the shakes and jerking like a lab rat. I didn't have any Coca-Cola in the house, and the lust I had for a Coke consumed me and drove me to get dressed, get my wallet, and walk around the corner to Break Time and get 2 20ozs, one of which I cracked open on the way to the register. I assume that's how crackheads lust after crack, or the opiate addicts are physically and psychologically driven to seek opiates. It was horrible. So I tapered down and quit. Nowadays, I can enjoy a Coke and a smile and shut the **** up without any issues.

[NewChief]

I'd like to know why some other kid injured his shoulder and needs Oxy initially like your son goes on to have an issue with opioids? Why does one person spiral out of control and the other person doesn't? They have the same economic and social backgrounds. Sure seems to me that we haven't figured out, as of yet, why one spirals out of control and another doesn't.

Yeah. It's a mystery. Ours is young still and I'm under no illusions that things might change as he gets older, but he's pretty much made sure to keep off of them. That's likely because we talk pretty explicitly with them about dangers of addiction to opioids. There are also lots of cautionary tales out there from people he respects in the mountain bike and action sports world of getting hooked on opioids after injury. So people in that scene are now hyper aware of it and talk about it openly.

[Molitoth]

Crush three up and dome them. Then get back to us.

For science.

rofl. dude you crack me up.

[dlphg9]

You are trolling, right? Isn't Fentanyl what killed Prince when he thought it was Oxy? They don't give Fentanyl to use outside of a hospital?

Yes fake oxy that is actually pressed fent is responsible for a lot of deaths and whoever was Prince's drug guy got duped into buying fakes. Fentanyl pressed pills have become more prevalent ever since the DEA and government started cracking down on pill mills and then doctors got scared of prescribing opiates and the supply dropped and the street price of oxy and hydros sky rocketed. Most people can't afford to spend thousands of dollars a month on that stuff, so they turn to heroin or fent and eventually do too much or get clean for awhile and then decide they want to get high and take as much as before when they're tolerance was higher and cant handle it and die.

The DEA and government are just as much to blame as the pharmaceutical companies for the opioid crisis. You cant allow people to be on these drugs for years and years, then decide "oh well this is addictive, so it's bad and youcant have it". Opioid wd is absolute hell.

[Monticore]

Opioids are a big pain in the ass for my wife it is very hard to quantify pain and not everyone has the same pain threshold , so she has patients signs contracts which include random drugs screens and the ability to get police involved if she suspects dealing and releasing them for abuse.


Specialists still over prescribe them because they don’t want to deal with you once you leave and leave the GPs to deal with it.

My surgeon forced me to take a script for 60 perks even though I told him I was fine with Tylenol, I just tore up the script.

[redshirt32]

I can attest to the fact oxy is pure hell when your out.

Went from 30 5mg tabs a month to 180, all through the VA for 6 plus years.
30mg a day is not alot compared to what others were getting.

Quit cold turkey Nov 2016, pure hell for 3 to 4 weeks.
The wife said get back on them your fine with them, I told her when im out it's pure fkn hell not taking another.
Once I made my decision all the docs agreed, stay the course you just need to calm fk the down and quit treating staff/family like shit while detoxing.
Get off oxy/hydro asap

[Naptown Chief]

I can attest to the fact oxy is pure hell when your out.

Went from 30 5mg tabs a month to 180, all through the VA for 6 plus years.
30mg a day is not alot compared to what others were getting.

Quit cold turkey Nov 2016, pure hell for 3 to 4 weeks.
The wife said get back on them your fine with them, I told her when im out it's pure fkn hell not taking another.
Once I made my decision all the docs agreed, stay the course you just need to calm fk the down and quit treating staff/family like shit while detoxing.
Get off oxy/hydro asap

Even doing a slow taper (~5 months) was shit for me. I was up to 80mg hydrocodone/day (8x 10/325) and, on particularly painful days, 8mg Dilaudid 2-3 a day (this was on top of 3600mg gabapentin and 60mg cymbalta for nerve pain). 80-70mg and then 70-60mg (1 week per drop) wasn't too terrible, but was by no means fun, but once I got down to about 50mg I had to go 5 at a time. Once down to 25mg or so I would go 2 weeks per drop because it started getting SO rough. By the end of it all (December 2019) I was still dope sick for a week. There was definitely still depression, insomnia, and a drastic increase in pain, but I'd do it all again. Unfortunately I'm still on max gabapentin and cymbalta.

Fucking nasty stuff, man. I might be regarded as nothing more than a troll, and not a particularly good one, but I'm definitely here for anyone struggling with drug addiction or alcoholism.

[Indian Chief]

It's strange. Some people just have the "addiction" gene. It seems like I couldn't get psychologically addicted to the shit if I tried. I've even had the "physical" addiction thing happen, quit cold turkey. Cigarettes? Quit cold turkey. The worst case of addiction I've personally experienced was actually caffeine, specifically Coca-Cola. That shit was horrible. Not even joking. Sometimes drank a 12 pack a day. Woke up one morning with the shakes and jerking like a lab rat. I didn't have any Coca-Cola in the house, and the lust I had for a Coke consumed me and drove me to get dressed, get my wallet, and walk around the corner to Break Time and get 2 20ozs, one of which I cracked open on the way to the register. I assume that's how crackheads lust after crack, or the opiate addicts are physically and psychologically driven to seek opiates. It was horrible. So I tapered down and quit. Nowadays, I can enjoy a Coke and a smile and shut the **** up without any issues.

We have around 10 million people in the U.S. that battle addiction. 50% of people quit cold turkey -- alcohol, opioids, cigarettes, anything -- and never touch it again.

It would be great to understand that half of the numbers.

[Demonpenz]

The fear or pain of doing drugs gets far greater like far far far far far far greater than the jones for a hit or a pull. Like people that are terrified of going back to prison or fear of dying that pain gets strong enough you will quit just by the situation. Like the fear of my family finding out I am doing drugs again and how that feels hoo boy the jones part doesn't even find it's way through the fear.

[Demonpenz]

I think the addiction just comes from a massive seritonin dump. Like even when I take some ibuprofion I can feel it more than I think other people can placebo or not. Probably after years and years of depression and getting relief from drugs and booze if I put any pill in my mouth my brain dumps some memories of good times and seritonin in my body.

[BigRedChief]

We have around 10 million people in the U.S. that battle addiction. 50% of people quit cold turkey -- alcohol, opioids, cigarettes, anything -- and never touch it again.

It would be great to understand that half of the numbers.its a weird thing that can’t be explained easily. I got the steroid shot twice. Pain free for 5 weeks each time. Didn’t take any Oxy. Had no desire to take any whatsoever. I quit smoking cigarettes after 13 years cold turkey. I’ve lost 100lbs but still a fat ass. So obviously I don’t have this fantastic strong will. There just isn’t any correlation that I’ve seen as to why one person has an issue and another doesn’t. Or even in the same person like myself.

[Chieftain]

Whenever I feel muscle pain or injure my bones, the first option is a muscle relaxer which you can buy without a prescription nowdays. Occasionally I would use some Biofreeze to cool off the area. Ibuprofen doesn't help me so much but it did wonders when I had a gum infection a few years back. I would never use opioids unless I had no other options left and the pain was impossible to deal with. Everybody experiences pain differently and some drugs may work better for some people but not for others. Nevertheless, start with something light. Then work your way up to other drugs which may be more effective but are less addictive and have lesser side effects. Compression wraps, sleeves or braces work very well also.

[jdubya]

Needed Oxys and Norco post throat surgery awhile ago......while it did wonders for the pain it stopped my GI tract immediately. I tried prune juice, docuset, stool softeners, everything.....nothing helped. It finally came to a point I truly thought I was going to go to the ER for a C section lol so I stopped the narcs immediately. Took about 2 days and then I needed a seatbelt while sitting on the toilet....never felt such relief in my life. How folks get hooked on something that stops the pipes from flowing is weird to me....