Pistol Regulations

[Holladay]

I want to buy my parents a revolver from an FFL in Ks and give them to my parents who live in Mo. My FFL has some hesitation about purchases and cross state rules.

Also, can we carry in Ks and Mo? I don't have my CCW license yet. I keep a small semi in my car. I understand that I can't go to CA, IL etc. But what about Ks, Mo, Ne, Ok? I have heard many issues.

You can legally carry without a permit within the state that you claim residency in, but other states may have restrictions on your ability to carry. On the flipside, as a Missouri/Kansas resident with a permit you can carry concealed weapons in 36/37 states.

"With a permit" Is that a CCW or regular license?

My Dad bought a pair of Ruger EC 9's for himself and my Mom. The purpose is for home defence and in Dad's car and Mom's purse...in theory or just home defense.

They are 80 yrs old. Both have not fired hand guns much. My Mom can't pull the slide back very well and has small hands. Since they are not familar with semi's, I thought a revolver would suit their purpose better because of the simplicity.

They bought the EC 9's for $300 each. They are not aficionados and don't want or need a top of the line gun.

I found some Taurus Poly 605 that can fire 38 or 357 rounds. Mom will only be able to use the 38. Dad possibly the 357. I want them to have the same gun so mix ups don't occur.

Assuming the Taurus is a reasonable gun for them, will I have issues on the regs?

[Stewie]

80 years old?


Why do they need handguns? Is there an imminent threat?

[CrazyPhuD]

If two people(even related) are residents of different states you can't give them a firearm directly(especially handguns). You'd have to go through an FFL in their state.

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-giving-someone-a-gun/

However, if you want to give a firearm to someone who lives in another state, you are required to go through an FFL. Transfers between non-FFL residents of different states cannot be done any other way. Above all, make sure to consult all applicable state laws but reviewing the NRA-ILA website before you give someone a firearm.

[Holladay]

If two people(even related) are residents of different states you can't give them a firearm directly(especially handguns). You'd have to go through an FFL in their state.

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/201...someone-a-gun/

Quote:
However, if you want to give a firearm to someone who lives in another state, you are required to go through an FFL. Transfers between non-FFL residents of different states cannot be done any other way. Above all, make sure to consult all applicable state laws but reviewing the NRA-ILA website before you give someone a firearm.

That is what my FFL stated. Bummer.

80 years old?

If your mom expressed piece of mind issues what would you say?

I told them the only way I would feel comfortable is if they go to a CCW class and come up to my farm and practice. practice. practice.

If I am not satisfied I will suggest they not have them.

[SAUTO]

You can't just meet them at a gun show and "sell" it to them there?

[hometeam]

Kansas and Missouri are the same with regards to constitutional carry. You can carry openly, or concealed directly across state lines no issue. No CCW needed if you are legal in all other ways. CCW is only needed to carry OPENLY in places where open carry is 'prohibited' by city or county code, or, if you plan on leaving either KS or MO to go to non constitutional carry or otherwise restricted states that still have CCW reciprocity.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

If two people(even related) are residents of different states you can't give them a firearm directly(especially handguns). You'd have to go through an FFL in their state.

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-giving-someone-a-gun/

You can sell it to them. have them give you a receipt to cover yourself.

But then again 80 year old people that don't already own firearms don't need them. Give them baseball bats.

[RickObie]

You’re a better man than me - when my Mom hits 80 I’m taking the car keys away - and hiding my stepdads guns - if she can’t drive I don’t want her shooting anymore.

[TribalElder]

Get your ccw

You should take your parent to a gun store to select their own pistol

[Megatron96]

Have your parents pick out their own guns, hopefully after trying them out at a gun range that rents them.

If these are just for home defense (and not trying to clear their own home, just hunker down in the bedroom and call the cops) I'd recommend a pistol-caliber carbine instead of any pistol. A lot easier to aim and operate, with generally much higher capacity. Also probably won't completely ruin your hearing the way a shotgun or a rifle would if discharged in a small room.

Using pistols in the hands of complete amateurs to clear a home, probably in the dark against possibly multiple BGs, is a risky proposition.

PCCs are not much more expensive than a typical revolver. In some cases such as the Kel-tec sub-2000 (9mm) they are significantly less.

PCCs also have virtually no recoil impulse, so much easier to handle while firing than any pistol. Also the longer sight radius makes for much easier aiming, and follow-up shots.

[TribalElder]

Just buy one of those shotgun pistols

[notorious]

https://www.guns.com/news/2013/12/12/gifting-guns-need-know



Giving a gun as a gift? Here’s what you need to know

by David Higginbotham

It’s that time of year again. As one who preaches the faith, so to speak, I will occasionally give a gun as a present. Doing so can be a bit of a hassle. At the very least, you have to consider how you are procuring the firearm, how you are transporting it, and the legal status of the whoever is receiving the gift.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, the lobby arm for the gun makers and retailers, brought up the topic just before Thanksgiving.

NSSF spokesman Bill Brassard wrote, “The first question you have to ask is whether the intended recipient can legally own the firearm where he or she lives.” Understanding the answer can be tricky, but it will keep the recipient (and you, too) from a potentially felonious gift exchange. The NSSF article points to the ATF’s page as a reference. While the ATF’s page isn’t the most user-friendly, it is authoritative. The ATF’s page of frequently answered firearms transfer questions is also useful.
But there’s more to the equation

Let’s assume that the person to whom you intend to give the firearm can legally own it. Check that one off the list. The next question seems to trouble a lot of people. Can you legally obtain a firearm you intend to immediately give away? Of course! But there is an oddly specific question on ATF form 4473, which you will have to answer if you are buying the gift from an FFL.
The answer to this question should, of course, be "yes." If not, you aren't buying the gun.

The answer to this question should, of course, be “yes.” If not, you aren’t buying the gun.

“Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?” The language is restrictive, and while that solves problems (mostly concerning straw purchases), it creates issues, too.

As a review writer, I’ve filled out more than 50 of these forms this year. I don’t buy the firearms. I’m not a the actual buyer. I don’t get to keep them. I assume responsibility for the gun, take possession of the gun, but the gun remains on the books of the manufacturer. Yet the guns are (however temporarily) transferred to me, so I’m covered. I pay my fees. My FFL runs the paperwork through the system. I’m approved, etc.

If you are giving the firearm as a gift, you are still the actual buyer. You’re in the clear there. This differs from a straw purchase, where you are also the actual buyer (or legal buyer, who then resells the gun to someone who can’t buy it).

That’s why the ATF has added the additional language in the warning about “acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person.” Regarding straw purchases, form 4473 is clear. You can’t acquire a firearm “on behalf” of another person.

That would seem to preclude buying a firearm you intend to gift, too. If you step into a gun store, find the perfect Ruger 10/22 for your nephew who has just earned his Eagle Scout rank, and you buy it for him, are you acquiring a firearm for another person? Yes. But maybe not “on behalf” of another person.

On behalf implies you are standing in for another. As far as straw purchases go, you stand in for someone. You are the original buyer, yet you have no intent to own the gun. Your intent is to act as the agent. It is this intent that matters in straw purchase prosecutions.

With gifts, the intent is much less dubious. You are the actual buyer. You are, in a way, buying the gun for another person, but not because they can’t legally own the gun.

The most surefire way to handle giving guns is to call on the services of an FFL. Some states even require it. Have an FFL run the paperwork and background checks can keep all involved in the clear. And it is a good chance to get to the old brick-and-mortar store, and introduce complete novices to some of the wonders of gun culture.

Brassard post points out another absolute. “Remember, you can never transfer a firearm directly to another person who is a resident of a different state. In that case, you must transfer the firearm through a licensed dealer in the state where the person receiving the gift resides.”
Getting them the gift

Traveling with these guns can be a bit tricky. Know the laws where you are going. Interstate travel is sometimes very easy, especially in states who honor each other’s concealed carry permits. Lock up unloaded guns, lock those in hard-sided cases, carry them separated from their ammo and tucked away in the trunk, etc. If you are flying, check the rules and regs for each individual airline.

Mailing guns can also get tricky. I can ship long guns to residents of my state from my local post office. If I’m mailing a handgun, I have to use a common carrier (like UPS or FedEx), but not my post office.

Some FedEx and UPS storefronts won’t ship firearms. My closest FedEx center is almost two hours away. I have a UPS distribution center about half an hour away (which is only open for two hours each day) and they will handle firearms shipments. Know the shipping regulations, and how to reference them, as your carriers

[kjwood75nro]

Just buy one of those shotgun pistolsStill a pistol.

[Holladay]

All great information. I learned a lot.

I am going to have them buy the guns from a Mo. FFL. Problem solved as to the legality.

Baseball bats would be great except they can't run very fast.

Clearing a house...not. Having a gun close and fire a shot with the noise should scare the most ardent intruder.

They watch the news too much, don't we all. Having something, if well trained in safety, that gives them piece of mind, put a price on that.

If I don't feel comfortable with them handling a pistol, deal is done.

An aside. This will give them a reason to come up and visit a bit more:)

[oldman]

Have you thought about just trading. Buy the Taraus and swap them for those semis. The other thought would be to buy one of those defender shotguns. https://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/shotguns/pump-action-shotguns/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105537780/i/104803380/mossberg-special-purpose-shotgun/2629917.uts?slotId=11

Ours scared the snot out of Oldwoman at first, but I feel a lot better about that with her than any of the pistols we tried. She did, too.

[tmax63]

Have you thought about a .22 or a .22mag for your mom? You mentioned small hands and a hard time with the slide on a semi-auto. Not near as noisy and minimal recoil. A well placed 22 round is just as lethal as a poorly placed .38 and she'll be able to get a follow-up shot easier/faster and more accurately if needed. Not as glamorous but might be a better fit for the situation.

[notorious]

.380 is a great round, too.

Sig P238 is a great small-bullet defense gun. Easy to use the slide, too.

[Abba-Dabba]

80 yrs old? Do either of them have any loss in cognitive function yet? Suicide rates with elderly that have firearms in the home drastically increase. If you were to go a head and get them a firearm then I would be very diligent on being aware of their cognitive function. Any sign of dementia and the firearm has to go away with a quickness.

[Simply Red]

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