So how did Belicheck do it anyway...?

[InChiefsHeaven]

Twice last season his defense was able to hold in the first half before either the Chiefs figured something out or the Pats D was just out of tricks...

...but how was he able to stop this offense last season when nobody else could? Twice? Once in the most important game the Chiefs had played in like over 2 decades, in our house?

Like him or hate him, Belicheck knows what he's doing and was seemingly the only one who could really stop the Chiefs for a full half (Ravens were good also, true enough).

So CP experts...how did he do it (twice...) and will Mahomes and Andy take steps to make sure he never does that shit again?

[O.city]

People may not wanna hear it, but a lot of those "stops" weren't necessarily what Bill did but what Mahomes didn't do.

He missed quite a bit of stuff in the first halves of those games. Was it because he was amped up or a little confused? I dunno.

But once he settled down, well, we saw what happened.

The Pats DL gave the OL some fits for sure, but for instance in the AFCCG, Mahomes left atleast 7 points on the board in the first half with an overthrow of an open RB for a TD, then took a sack to move out of FG range.

[Mennonite]

Cheating, of course.

[RunKC]

Jammed the hell out of our receivers at the LOS, had creative blitzes for DL and LB’s and kept the ball away from Pat as much as possible. We only had 3 possessions in the first half of the AFCCG. The norm is 5

[New World Order]

Rushed 5 a lot, kept contain on the edges and bracketed Tyreek

[Shaid]

Jammed the hell out of our receivers at the LOS, had creative blitzes for DL and LB’s and kept the ball away from Pat as much as possible. We only had 3 possessions in the first half of the AFCCG. The norm is 5

Yep, play slow ball against a D they knew couldn't stop them anyways. Keep our O off the field.

[Amnorix]

1. Long, slow, methodical offensive possessions which (1) limited the Chiefs opportunities, and (2) inhibited the Chiefs ability to get into an offensive rhythm.

2. Rotating extra coverage onto Hill and Kelce to ensure that the Chiefs' primary weapons dont' beat them.

3. Man-to-man coverage, and being good enough at it, that the secondary receiving options don't kill you.

4. Controlled pass rush to squeeze the pocket, putting some pressure on Mahomes WITHOUT allowing him to get wide and create plays given that he is ridiculously dangerous when he extends plays and starts freelancing. Less focus on sacks and more focus on keeping him bottled up.

5. Win the battle at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, allowing the Patriots to maintain time of possession (48 runs, 176 yards), while forcing the Chiefs to pass, pass and pass some more (12 runs, 41 yards), and not allow the running game to create momentum for them.


It's a formula that is ridiculously hard to pull off.

[saphojunkie]

One thing that's nice? Daly can explain EXACTLY what they did to slow him down.

Another reason why the defensive coaching hires are the biggest move of the offseason.

[Sorce]

Held our receivers at the LOS, had creative blitzes for DL and LB’s and kept the ball away from Pat as much as possible. We only had 3 possessions in the first half of the AFCCG. The norm is 5

FTFY

[-King-]

People may not wanna hear it, but a lot of those "stops" weren't necessarily what Bill did but what Mahomes didn't do.

He missed quite a bit of stuff in the first halves of those games. Was it because he was amped up or a little confused? I dunno.

But once he settled down, well, we saw what happened.

The Pats DL gave the OL some fits for sure, but for instance in the AFCCG, Mahomes left atleast 7 points on the board in the first half with an overthrow of an open RB for a TD, then took a sack to move out of FG range.
Yeah this. Mahomes missed some easy completions and touchdowns in the first halves of both games. If we can get him started just a little bit sooner, we win both games going away IMO. Most of his slow starts came in primetime games so I bet having a year of experience under his belt will help him settle in faster this year.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Held the receivers. Period.

[Amnorix]

Held the receivers. Period.


So the Patriots stopped holding them in the second half?

[ptlyon]

We wouldn't be having this discussion if Dee Ford wasn't OFFSIDES

[Sorce]

Held the receivers. Period.

They showed highlights of this brilliant game plan of using a linebacker to jam hold Kelce. If I remember correctly they got called for it either late first half or after half and stopped it. I wonder why we started scoring after half...

[Sorce]

So the Patriots stopped holding them in the second half?

Yep

[Amnorix]

:rolleyes:

[O.city]

Yeah this. Mahomes missed some easy completions and touchdowns in the first halves of both games. If we can get him started just a little bit sooner, we win both games going away IMO. Most of his slow starts came in primetime games so I bet having a year of experience under his belt will help him settle in faster this year.

Left enough points on the field in the first that made it tough in the 2nd half.

Think about both games. In the first he threw a pick in the Pats end to end to the half IIRC that could have led to 3, then missed a few in the AFCCG

[KC_Lee]

Went up against a team with Bob Sutton as the D Coordinator.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I'm pretty sure the balls weren't inflated properly until halftime when Andy complained.

[ClevelandBronco]

Yeah, how come the greatest coach in the history of the NFL keeps proving himself? You'd think he'd be over that by now.

[O.city]

Belicheck teams just don't (usually) fuck up and give you anything.

Brady had quite a few TO's in the champ game to keep it close early then the Chiefs turned it on.

But you just can't leave points on the field. Penalties, turnovers etc.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

We wouldn't be having this discussion if Dee Ford wasn't OFFSIDES

That's right and the narrative would have completely changed to {Brady throws 3 int's in playoff game and is washed up.)

I hate Dee Ford!

[crayzkirk]

Pretty simple game plan. Run the ball right at the Chiefs and eliminate their best defensive ability: rushing the passer. The sad part about this is that they knew it was coming and were unable to stop it. How can you not be ready for the level of intensity in the AFC Championship Game?

[Shiver Me Timbers]

He missed quite a bit of stuff in the first halves of those games. Was it because he was amped up or a little confused? I dunno.

But once he settled down, well, we saw what happened.

He was definitely amped up. If it was confusion it would have continued into the second half.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Like I said, hate him or not, Belicheck knows what he's doing. I was just thinking about the 31 second half points in both games...dude is a genius coach who Andy and Pat took a half of football to figure out. I just wonder if he'll be able to keep that shit up.

Combine that with a pretty horrible defense for the Chiefs, and I guess that's the explanation. Brady is not eye popping, but he's solid and pretty unflappable. You throw a shit defense at him and he'll eat it alive.

I hope we have this shit dialed in this year. Talent for talent, this is the best O in the NFL to be sure. Can't afford to be held back by shitty D especially against Belicheck...

[dj56dt58]

Went up against a team with Bob Sutton as the D Coordinator.

Bob Sutton's D kept KC in the game while their offense did jack in the 1st half

[ModSocks]

:rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you want, but the refs were allowing teams to hold through out the playoffs, as they do every year.

Yes, the Patriots DB's were holding. A lot of team's DB's were holding. This isn't some idea that was invented for this debate, it was talked about liberally last playoffs even BEFORE the pats game.

The Pats were holding, plain and simple.

[Valiant]

I think it was more us than anything. We missed some throws. Threw bombs instead of easy completions for a first.

Same with the Rams game.

We try to outthink too much. When you have speed like that. Spread them out. Hit a rb out of the backfield.

Look at the first four weeks, half those plays we quit all together. Mahomes seem to not read through his options as much also.

This offense can be on another level again this year.

[RollChiefsRoll]

Bob Sutton's D kept KC in the game while their offense did jack in the 1st half

lol holy shit, Bob Sutton apologists still exist

[Amnorix]

Roll your eyes all you want, but the refs were allowing teams to hold through out the playoffs, as they do every year.

Yes, the Patriots DB's were holding. A lot of team's DB's were holding. This isn't some idea that was invented for this debate, it was talked about liberally last playoffs even BEFORE the pats game.

The Pats were holding, plain and simple.


Contact goes up in the playoffs, that is unquestionably true.

But to post that the reason the Patriots won is because of holding is pretty silly. I have no doubt the Chiefs dbacks also increased their contact. As did every other team. So "holding" isn't really the answer, is it?

Add to that the fact that the Patriots ALSO held the Chiefs to no TDs in their earlier game in Foxboro -- which was not in the playoffs and not subject to, shall we say, increased leniency by the refs -- and maybe you should think about the key factors that led to the defeat.

And, by the way, the key factors that maybe you can change NEXT YEAR, because the increased contact thing will happen again. It is, as you said, part of life in the playoffs.

[MahiMike]

Belichick is the GOAT. Not Brady.

[RollChiefsRoll]

Contact goes up in the playoffs, that is unquestionably true.

But to post that the reason the Patriots won is because of holding is pretty silly. I have no doubt the Chiefs dbacks also increased their contact. As did every other team. So "holding" isn't really the answer, is it?

Add to that the fact that the Patriots ALSO held the Chiefs to no TDs in their earlier game in Foxboro -- which was not in the playoffs and not subject to, shall we say, increased leniency by the refs -- and maybe you should think about the key factors that led to the defeat.

And, by the way, the key factors that maybe you can change NEXT YEAR, because the increased contact thing will happen again. It is, as you said, part of life in the playoffs.

There aren't key factors that led to the loss, there's a key factor: Dee Ford.

[Amnorix]

There aren't key factors that led to the loss, there's a key factor: Dee Ford.


Sure, and you got rid of him, so 100% you're winning the SB next year. No need to analyze anything else. Got it!

[RollChiefsRoll]

Sure, and you got rid of him, so 100% you're winning the SB next year. No need to analyze anything else. Got it!

That's a hell of a strawman you just tore down. Good job!

[BlackOp]

https://i.ibb.co/4MzGzCm/kraft-vs-maho-es.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[MightyMouse]

other people touched on it and it doesn't get talked about enough.
The scheme was one small part of the big picture.
It's not a surprise you can come out and throw some looks, hit Kelce at the line, Bracket Tyreek, etc. Do things to throw off timing for the first couple drives and force the offense to make tough plays. Make the QB make a good pass and WR to make good catches in freezing cold weather. That isn't some brilliant new blueprint, it worked for half because of what the Pats offense did. They had multiple long drives that ate up like 16 minutes.
It's frustrating for a offense to sit there for so long and then go out and feel you have to answer, plus the defense is executing and you don't get first downs, your off the field, you can't get into rhythm and then back on the sideline waiting, freezing and just thinking to much.
I hearing people saying the NFL will follow the Pats blueprint, but to that you need to be able to run the ball and clock. I think the defense will be much better against the run and hopefully blitzing more will help us get off the field on 3rd and longs. The answer to the blueprint is the Chiefs having a better defense. On offense you need to be able to run the ball on early downs until you get into rhythm and get the defense to change up a bit which they will have to do if your having success on the ground.

[Mecca]

It's going to be much harder to play the WR's that way now with the speed increase..

[BlackOp]

When they dont call a single penalty aginst you...it makes it's easier in a one score game.

Leading up to the 2017 play-offs, NE had a 100 to 400 yards difference in penalties in the four prior games. 4 to 1....Against the Steleers in week 15, they had 4 yards of penalties and a late TD erased. It gave them HFA.

In the Titans playoff game, the refs called false start on NE. They marked off the penalty which made it 4th and 10 at their own 5. Titans would have had great FP before half. Right before the punt..the refs came running in and not only changed the call but charged Tennessee 5 yards and gave the Patriots a first down.

First time in history a false start penalty has been challenged and over-ruled by the booth.

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[Amnorix]

That's a hell of a strawman you just tore down. Good job!


You seem to have no interest in analyzing or understanding what went wrong, so what else can one understand about your position?

[notorious]

Bob Sutton's D kept KC in the game while their offense did jack in the 1st half

I hate Sutton, but this is truth.

The scheme about made Brady choke the game to us.

[Amnorix]

When they dont call a single penalty aginst you...it make it's easier.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yllTsRsqAcM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


In your view the entire NFL is fixed, so why do you even bother with any commentary?

[BlackOp]

In your view the entire NFL is fixed, so why do you even bother with any commentary?

Why do you pretend your last 2 SB appearances weren't directly related to bogus officiating?

You should have lost to Jacksonville...you should have lost to Pittsburgh. The refs bailed you out...

Any play-off team can get the Superbowl if they get every critical call.

Jones doesn't get a fake ruffing call...Hogan isn't awarded a completion that hits the ground. Chiefs are SB bound..

Your last two SB appearances shouldn't have happened with balanced officiating...but you get calls no other team gets.

[RunKC]

https://i.ibb.co/4MzGzCm/kraft-vs-maho-es.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Dee Ford was offsides. He ruined everything for us and it was an easy call that was 100% right.

There was no fix

[notorious]

Mother fuck Dee Ford.

[BlackOp]

Dee Ford was offsides. He ruined everything for us and it was an easy call that was 100% right.

There was no fix

That was only one play...the Hogan fake catch was critical. The Jones penalty gave them 15 yards and a first.

They are supposed to warn Reid before issuing a NZI...it's a common practice. Andy even mentioned it..

[Titty Meat]

Mahomes missed a wide open throw for a TD and also took a terrible sack taking them out of field goal range in the playoff game.

He had a terrible red zone INT in the regular season.

Plus the Chiefs defense was god damn awful.

[eDave]

That's a hell of a strawman you just tore down. Good job!

He's right though.

[BlackOp]

This will never be a catch..unless your team is owned by Kraft. Look where his left red glove is. They reviewed it..and like always, awarded NE a bogus critical play.

This is the call that changed the game...IMO.

https://i.ibb.co/sH0xXYP/drop.png (https://ibb.co/PQ7XVHY)
(https://imgbb.com/)

[Lzen]

I hate Sutton, but this is truth.

The scheme about made Brady choke the game to us.

Yeah, except for the fact that it allowed the Pats to dominate the clock and not allow our offense to get into any kind of rhythm in the first half.

[BlackOp]

I hadn't seen this one...watch the game clock sit on :01 for 3 full seconds. This isn't even debatable. Start at 5:15...WTF?

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[dj56dt58]

lol holy shit, Bob Sutton apologists still exist

I hated Sutton the last few seasons but I also watched the game. Are you saying the defense didn’t keep them in the game? Because the offense scored exactly 0 in the first half and the chiefs got the lead in the second half. I call that keeping them in the game

[dj56dt58]

That was only one play...the Hogan fake catch was critical. The Jones penalty gave them 15 yards and a first.

They are supposed to warn Reid before issuing a NZI...it's a common practice. Andy even mentioned it..

Don’t forget the touchdown that was brought back with 0 supporting evidence on replay of Edelman not touching the ball

[Lprechaun]

Don’t forget the touchdown that was brought back with 0 supporting evidence on replay of Edelman not touching the ball

Muffed punt cant be advanced. It would have been down at the spot of possession.

[Lprechaun]

OP asks how BB stopped the offense twice for 2 quarters basically.
BB is as good at defense as Reid is at offense.
That said, it was less about BB being great and more about Mahomes being in his first year as a starter and only his second year in the league.

[RunKC]

That was only one play...the Hogan fake catch was critical. The Jones penalty gave them 15 yards and a first.

They are supposed to warn Reid before issuing a NZI...it's a common practice. Andy even mentioned it..

It doesn’t matter. If Dee Ford stays onside win go to the Super Bowl. That’s it. That’s all we needed.

It shouldn’t surprise anyone that Dee Ford was offsides. The Chiefs were the most penalized team in football last year having 12 more penalties than the next worst team.

Ford should have never lined up offsides. That’s coaching. Not the refs.

Quit making excuses and embarrassing yourself

[-King-]

Why do you pretend your last 2 SB appearances weren't directly related to bogus officiating?

You should have lost to Jacksonville...you should have lost to Pittsburgh. The refs bailed you out...

Any play-off team can get the Superbowl if they get every critical call.

Jones doesn't get a fake ruffing call...Hogan isn't awarded a completion that hits the ground. Chiefs are SB bound..

Your last two SB appearances shouldn't have happened with balanced officiating...but you get calls no other team gets.

So if we win the Superbowl this year is it because the league allowed us to trade up and draft Mahomes and the refs officiated games in our favor?