Ex-Browns OL coach Wylie rips Kitchens, says QB coach Zampese did all the coaching

[Deberg_1990]

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Former Browns offensive line coach Bob Wylie had some harsh words for Freddie Kitchens and the Browns organization in a radio interview Saturday.

For starters, he said he was shocked Freddie Kitchens was hired as head coach, claiming that quarterbacks coach Kenny Zampese was the mastermind behind the Browns’ explosive offense in the final eight weeks of the season.

“Baker (Mayfield) likes Freddie,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “There’s a good relationship there even though (former Browns QB coach) Kenny Zampese did all the coaching there. Baker likes Freddie, so that had to (factor) into the decision.

"(But) Freddie didn’t have any coordinator experience or head coaching experience.''

Wylie indicated that the Browns offensive assistants that got fired after Kitchens got the job felt he left them out in the cold after they helped him go 5-3 the second half of the season and produce one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL.

"(It was like) ‘thank you guys, you guys did a great job. Thanks for helping me get the interview, okay? but I’m going to take this job and you guys are going to become collateral damage, that’s what will happen,''' Wylie said.

The only offensive assistant hired by Hue Jackson who was retained by Kitchens was receivers coach Adam Henry, who coached Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. at LSU, and Beckham with the New York Giants.

Wylie also argued that interim coach Gregg Williams didn’t get the head coaching job because Dorsey didn’t want him

“That shocked me because Gregg Williams turned the team around. In the second half of the season, that’s his work that got it to where it is. My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat,’’ Wylie said. “I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Gregg like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture and he kept the search going.''

Wylie, who left the Browns in late December because of a serious ankle and knee injury and spent 122 days in a rehabilitation center, said he heard about his firing from his daughter while he was in the hospital.

“My daughter called me and said, ‘Hey, dad, you just got fired today,’’ Wylie said. “That’s the first time I head about it. I was laying in hospital bed. They packed up my office and they put my office in storage because I was still in the hospital. So that’s how it all kind of went down. That stuff happens in the National Football League.''

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/08/ex-browns-ol-coach-bob-wylie-rips-freddie-kitchens-saying-qb-coach-ken-zampese-did-all-the-coaching.html

[FAX]

The pundits will hype the Grumpers like nobody's business this year, but it will all go for naught. I have no faith in the Chute Pickles.

FAX

[Dante84]

Dorsey is a real piece of shit when it comes to terminating someone’s employment.

I hope Clark and Andy gave him the same treatment.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

The Browns, if they ever do get hot, will fizzle out hard and fast... book it.

Leadership will be a problem, if it isn’t already.

[Buehler445]

Dorsey is a real piece of shit when it comes to terminating someone’s employment.

I hope Clark and Andy gave him the same treatment.

I’d bet real money they didn’t and I’m glad for it. I’d love to have Belicheat. But that doesn’t mean his shenanigans (and anyone else’s) are anything other than horseshit.

The Browns, if they ever do get hot, will fizzle out hard and fast... book it.

Leadership will be a problem, if it isn’t already.

Oh yeah. By a lot.

[RealSNR]

I wonder if Al Saunders did much on that staff after Hue left? He's so ancient he was probably just like, "Ehh... fuck this. I'm gonna go watch Jeopardy"

[Hammock Parties]

A petty GM, a peter principled head coach and a jackass QB.

Yeah, that franchise is going to contend with us in the AFC for YEARS!

[staylor26]

Bob Wylie is a real one too. Loved that guy on Hard Knocks. I’d imagine this is pretty accurate. Kitchens seems like a douche so it doesn’t shock me that Baker loves him.

[JakeF]

Obsessed with Brown's failure.

[Chief Northman]

Bob Wylie is a real one too. Loved that guy on Hard Knocks. I’d imagine this is pretty accurate. Kitchens seems like a douche so it doesn’t shock me that Baker loves him.

I’ve met and talked with Bob Wylie on a few occasions at coaching clinics. Straight shooter, doesn't give a shit what people think of him, and hilarious to boot.
Truth-teller.

[RealSNR]

I tried listening to the actual interview cited in that article. Holy shit that guy never stops fucking talking.

[TEX]

I tried listening to the actual interview cited in that article. Holy shit that guy never stops ****ing talking.

Yep. Dude seems like a bitter former employee to me.

[Chris Meck]

I know there's a tendency to hate Mayfield because Oklahoma.
I know there's a tendency to hate Dorsey because Chiefs.

I've got news for you-we're going to see play-off match-ups with Cleveland several times in the coming years. KC-Cleveland will be the Indy-NE of the 2020's.

[chiefzilla1501]

I love it. It's the Brownsiest thing ever. They actually have a shitload of talent. But I could see it imploding because they got locked in to the wrong head coach.

Baker Mayfield could be a total powder keg in the wrong hands. Loads of talent, but he's also cocky as hell and not always in a good way. You need a really skilled HC to let Baker be Baker but reign him in when necessary. Kitchens looks like a complete enabler. Baker likes him because Kitchens lets him do whatever he wants. That could backfire big time one day.

[chiefzilla1501]

I know there's a tendency to hate Mayfield because Oklahoma.
I know there's a tendency to hate Dorsey because Chiefs.

I've got news for you-we're going to see play-off match-ups with Cleveland several times in the coming years. KC-Cleveland will be the Indy-NE of the 2020's.

I don't hate Dorsey and Mayfield might be one of the most exciting QBs in the league outside of Mahomes. Dorsey's done a great job in Cleveland. Kitchens is a different story. Maybe the team really believed he's the best coach for the job and maybe last year wasn't a fluke. There's also a very good chance hiring him was a big mistake. It would be the Brownsiest thing to do since the reason this chain of events happened in the first place is because the Haslems refused to fire Hue Jackson. What better Browns thing to do than to surround terrific talent with an incompetent head coach.

[Chris Meck]

I don't hate Dorsey and Mayfield might be one of the most exciting QBs in the league outside of Mahomes. Dorsey's done a great job in Cleveland. Kitchens is a different story. Maybe the team really believed he's the best coach for the job and maybe last year wasn't a fluke. There's also a very good chance hiring him was a big mistake. It would be the Brownsiest thing to do since the reason this chain of events happened in the first place is because the Haslems refused to fire Hue Jackson. What better Browns thing to do than to surround terrific talent with an incompetent head coach.

I agree with all of that.

We'll just have to watch and see.

Personally, I think the Browns will be good; and the Cleveland fans have suffered even more than we have and deserve it. Not a Super Bowl, fuck that, we're taking a few of those first.

[Skyy God]

A petty GM, a peter principled head coach and a jackass QB.

Yeah, that franchise is going to contend with us in the AFC for YEARS!

You left out a crooked, flighty owner.

[staylor26]

I know there's a tendency to hate Mayfield because Oklahoma.
I know there's a tendency to hate Dorsey because Chiefs.

I've got news for you-we're going to see play-off match-ups with Cleveland several times in the coming years. KC-Cleveland will be the Indy-NE of the 2020's.

Lol this is why people like me hate the Browns already.

They haven’t even made the playoffs yet and you have people saying shit like this.

[Chris Meck]

Lol this is why people like me hate the Browns already.

They haven’t even made the playoffs yet and you have people saying shit like this.

from multiple winless seasons to last year was a pretty dramatic turnaround.

Mayfield is for real, and if we'd not gotten Mahomes but had ended up with him instead, you'd all love his cocky ass.

He's not Mahomes, nobody is.

But he looks like the distant second best young QB in football. Wentz can't stay healthy, and don't talk to me about Goff. Watson has a noodle arm, and Trubisky...is who knows?

[staylor26]

from multiple winless seasons to last year was a pretty dramatic turnaround.

Mayfield is for real, and if we'd not gotten Mahomes but had ended up with him instead, you'd all love his cocky ass.

He's not Mahomes, nobody is.

But he looks like the distant second best young QB in football. Wentz can't stay healthy, and don't talk to me about Goff. Watson has a noodle arm, and Trubisky...is who knows?

They beat like 2 winning teams last year. Yea they weren’t the worst team in football anymore, but let’s give that “dramatic turnaround” some perspective.

And Mayfield isn’t just “not Mahomes”. He’s nowhere fucking close on the field or in the locker room as a leader. That douche had veteran players coming to him pissed after he ran his mouth about Duke Johnson. He thinks he’s Mahomes. That’s the problem. He already feels like he’s arrived and you can see it in his actions such as that. The dudes entering year 2 and having beef with a college QB through the media. Who does that?

Also, they have some very combustible personalities in that locker room besides just their QB, to go with a rookie HC. With expectations as high as they are, things could get ugly quickly whether it’s this year, next, or some other time in the future. To predict they’ll be a perennial playoff team before they’ve even made the playoffs is beyond premature.

[RealSNR]

from multiple winless seasons to last year was a pretty dramatic turnaround.

Mayfield is for real, and if we'd not gotten Mahomes but had ended up with him instead, you'd all love his cocky ass.

He's not Mahomes, nobody is.

But he looks like the distant second best young QB in football. Wentz can't stay healthy, and don't talk to me about Goff. Watson has a noodle arm, and Trubisky...is who knows?

I just don't really care about Mayfield. That's pretty much it.

I know that Mahomes >>>> Mayfield, so Baker is pretty irrelevant to me.

And the talent on offense and defense is scary, but until Kitchens proves he can be an NFL coach, I'm not going to hold my breath. The 2012 Chiefs didn't have nearly as much talent as the Browns, but they had enough talent to win way more than the 2 fucking games that they did.

Coaching matters in the NFL. A lot. And if Wylie is right, the Browns aren't going to be a super team just yet. Playoffs? Sure. Super Bowl? Nope.

[Chris Meck]

They beat like 2 winning teams last year. Yea they weren’t the worst team in football anymore, but let’s give that “dramatic turnaround” some perspective.

And Mayfield isn’t just “not Mahomes”. He’s nowhere ****ing close on the field or in the locker room as a leader. That douche had veteran players coming to him pissed after he ran his mouth about Duke Johnson. He thinks he’s Mahomes. That’s the problem. He already feels like he’s arrived and you can see it in his actions such as that. The dudes entering year 2 and having beef with a college QB through the media. Who does that?

Also, they have some very combustible personalities in that locker room besides just their QB, to go with a rookie HC. With expectations as high as they are, things could get ugly quickly whether it’s this year, next, or some other time in the future. To predict they’ll be a perennial playoff team before they’ve even made the playoffs is beyond premature.

he's a totally different personality type, for sure. And yeah, there are some serious personalities in the locker room.

You're right, it could all blow up in Dorsey's face.

I don't think it will, though. I think they've got the makings of a pretty good defense. I think Mayfield's got some nice weapons. It's a talented roster. Pittsburgh figures to be down. Cinci is a mess. I think Baltimore is going to try to win with a high school offense. I think Cleveland has a fairly direct path to the play-offs.

Kitchens might suck, and that'll tank them if so.

Mayfield set the rookie record for TD's on a previously 0-16 team in less than a full season. That's nothing to sneeze at. I'm out, though, I'm not going to argue the merits of Baker all day with a bunch of guys that have hated him from college on. It's like talking to a wall. It's cool, think what you want.

[staylor26]

he's a totally different personality type, for sure. And yeah, there are some serious personalities in the locker room.

You're right, it could all blow up in Dorsey's face.

I don't think it will, though. I think they've got the makings of a pretty good defense. I think Mayfield's got some nice weapons. It's a talented roster. Pittsburgh figures to be down. Cinci is a mess. I think Baltimore is going to try to win with a high school offense. I think Cleveland has a fairly direct path to the play-offs.

Kitchens might suck, and that'll tank them if so.

Mayfield set the rookie record for TD's on a previously 0-16 team in less than a full season. That's nothing to sneeze at. I'm out, though, I'm not going to argue the merits of Baker all day with a bunch of guys that have hated him from college on. It's like talking to a wall. It's cool, think what you want.

The irony is I respect Baker on the field and I believe he should be a good QB, but when bringing up how his personality can be an issue (it already has), it’s like talking to a wall with people like you.

If you don’t find vets coming to his locker to have a word with him because he made comments about Duke Johnson’s situation to the media concerning, it’s because you’re too caught up in the fact that you like a QB with his personality that can actually play.

That’s the thing about that personality type. It’s all good when expectations are low and you’re exceeding them. How about when they’re high and you’re not? If he can’t take criticism from Cowherd, how’s he going to handle it when it’s coming from everybody?

[RunKC]

They beat like 2 winning teams last year. Yea they weren’t the worst team in football anymore, but let’s give that “dramatic turnaround” some perspective.

And Mayfield isn’t just “not Mahomes”. He’s nowhere ****ing close on the field or in the locker room as a leader. That douche had veteran players coming to him pissed after he ran his mouth about Duke Johnson. He thinks he’s Mahomes. That’s the problem. He already feels like he’s arrived and you can see it in his actions such as that. The dudes entering year 2 and having beef with a college QB through the media. Who does that?

Also, they have some very combustible personalities in that locker room besides just their QB, to go with a rookie HC. With expectations as high as they are, things could get ugly quickly whether it’s this year, next, or some other time in the future. To predict they’ll be a perennial playoff team before they’ve even made the playoffs is beyond premature.

Mayfield broke the rookie TD passing record in 14 games playing for the Cleveland Browns with a shitty HC and a place holder coach all year.

It’s fair to call him a douche and a poor leader, but he’s talented and he’s proven it.

[staylor26]

Mayfield broke the rookie TD passing record in 14 games playing for the Cleveland Browns with a shitty HC and a place holder coach all year.

It’s fair to call him a douche and a poor leader, but he’s talented and he’s proven it.

Proven what exactly? He did most of his work against shit teams. The only thing he’s proven is that he’s a legit talent and could be a damn good QB. Anything beyond that is a stretch.

[RunKC]

The only thing he’s proven is that he’s a legit talent and could be a damn good QB.

That’s pretty much what everyone is saying. That deserves hype.

[TEX]

from multiple winless seasons to last year was a pretty dramatic turnaround.

Mayfield is for real, and if we'd not gotten Mahomes but had ended up with him instead, you'd all love his cocky ass.

He's not Mahomes, nobody is.

But he looks like the distant second best young QB in football. Wentz can't stay healthy, and don't talk to me about Goff. Watson has a noodle arm, and Trubisky...is who knows?

I agree that Mayfield may be the 2nd best young QB for the reasons you listed except one - How can you say that Watson has a noodle arm? That's highly inaccurate. Watson has a very strong arm. His problem is he has a shit OL, a not-so-good HC, and above all, he holds on to the ball too long b/c he can't read defenses very well and does not see the whole field. His arm is not his problem.

[RealSNR]

Hell, even a veteran head coach like Tomlin occasionally has trouble making sure personalities in a locker room don't get out of hand with one another and start affecting the play on the field. You can bet your ass Kitchens is going to have a little trouble with that his first year.

It's also very possible that Wylie has a bad case of the sour grapes against Kitchens over his firing and is just spouting off regarding the Zampese thing, but there is probably a lot of truth to the Dorsey hiring him to keep the power structure pretty controlled with him at the top of the food chain.

Your young QB likes this one coach. Hey, fucking great. Awesome. Keep him around in some capacity. The dude has survived multiple regime changes before-- he was in Arizona for 10 freakin years and coached everything from TEs to QBs to RBs. Hire a real coach (like Williams) and if the guy wants his own OC, it would have to be pretty difficult to not find a guy like Kitchens a job.

The straight up promotion to head coach is just fucking confusing to me.

[staylor26]

Hell, even a veteran head coach like Tomlin occasionally has trouble making sure personalities in a locker room don't get out of hand with one another and start affecting the play on the field. You can bet your ass Kitchens is going to have a little trouble with that his first year.

It's also very possible that Wylie has a bad case of the sour grapes against Kitchens over his firing and is just spouting off regarding the Zampese thing, but there is probably a lot of truth to the Dorsey hiring him to keep the power structure pretty controlled with him at the top of the food chain.

Your young QB likes this one coach. Hey, fucking great. Awesome. Keep him around in some capacity. The dude has survived multiple regime changes before-- he was in Arizona for 10 freakin years and coached everything from TEs to QBs to RBs. Hire a real coach (like Williams) and if the guy wants his own OC, it would have to be pretty difficult to not find a guy like Kitchens a job.

The straight up promotion to head coach is just fucking confusing to me.

Especially considering he wasn’t even the interim HC.

[RunKC]

FWIW I don’t think Baker is the 2nd best young QB. It’s Wentz.

I think Wentz will seriously challenge Pat for MVP if he stays healthy. He’s got the best supporting cast in the league.

[staylor26]

That’s pretty much what everyone is saying. That deserves hype.

And his antics deserve caution with that hype.

[OKchiefs]

I agree that Mayfield may be the 2nd best young QB for the reasons you listed except one - How can you say that Watson has a noodle arm? That's highly inaccurate. Watson has a very strong arm. His problem is he has a shit OL, a not-so-good HC, and above all, he holds on to the ball too long b/c he can't read defenses very well and does not see the whole field. His arm is not his problem.

No he fucking doesn't. Look at his velocity from before he was drafted.

[chiefzilla1501]

The irony is I respect Baker on the field and I believe he should be a good QB, but when bringing up how his personality can be an issue (it already has), it’s like talking to a wall with people like you.

If you don’t find vets coming to his locker to have a word with him because he made comments about Duke Johnson’s situation to the media concerning, it’s because you’re too caught up in the fact that you like a QB with his personality that can actually play.

That’s the thing about that personality type. It’s all good when expectations are low and you’re exceeding them. How about when they’re high and you’re not? If he can’t take criticism from Cowherd, how’s he going to handle it when it’s coming from everybody?

Kind of get your point. But I don't think he's bad for the locker room. He broke the unwritten rule that you shouldn't talk about contracts. But we've also seen recently the way guys like leveon bell can destroy locker rooms. For the most part, I don't think baker rubs his teammates the wrong way and they feed off his arrogance. But yeah, I've seen kitchens handle baker poorly on a few occasions. That wasn't a good moment for baker. He also should have reigned him in on the hue Jackson stuff. Sooner or later he's going to piss the wrong person off or let his ego get to his head, and kitchens doesn't seem like the guy to stop it.

[Skyy God]

FWIW I don’t think Baker is the 2nd best young QB. It’s Wentz.

I think Wentz will seriously challenge Pat for MVP if he stays healthy. He’s got the best supporting cast in the league.

Wentz is in danger of losing his locker room for playing favorites (e.g., Ertz), not running the playa as called, and generally being a polarizing leader.

And he’s injury prone.

[RealSNR]

FWIW I don’t think Baker is the 2nd best young QB. It’s Wentz.

I think Wentz will seriously challenge Pat for MVP if he stays healthy. He’s got the best supporting cast in the league.

I could be a shitmassive huge homer, granted. Or maybe just misinformed about the Eagles since their Super Bowl win.

But am I the only one who would rather have our WRs over the Eagles'? I know PFF ranked the Eagles WRs #1 in the league recently, so I guess the metrics must support that assertion, but I compare their top 3 to our top 3, and I can't help but prefer what we've got.

Hill, Watkins, Robinson > Desean, Alshon, Agholor

I mean, take the bottom two guys from the Eagles, and yeah, I'd rather have them over Watkins and Robinson, but it's the presence of Hill with us that puts ours over the top, I think. And if you go further down the line, I'm sure Arcega-Whiteside is a nice guy and might even be a damn good WR, but I just like Hardman better in his upside and potential as a pro.

Yes, the duel threat of Ertz and Goedert trumps Kelce alone. And yes, the Eagles have the #1 OL in football, and ours isn't even close. And while we're decently deep at RB, I think the Eagles are a significant notch stronger than us at that spot as well (though I think we've got more speed).

But in terms of WR comparison? Like Philly's daaaaamn good, but am I wrong in thinking the Chiefs have it a bit better in that area?

[Chris Meck]

And his antics deserve caution with that hype.

that's fair. I think the antics are overblown, but time will tell.

[staylor26]

Absolutely not SNR.

Our WR’a are easily better. It’s not even remotely close.

[RealSNR]

And it's that lack of an eye-popping top 5 #1 WR on the Eagles that makes me question it, to be honest. That's the big one.

Like... I might even take Houston's WRs over the Eagles. The Texans' problem is staying healthy, but Coutee is definitely ready to bust out as a poor man's Tyreek Hill, and they have who I think is the best WR in the game, Deandre Hopkins. It would all boil down to whether or not Will Fuller wants to take off the diapers. And not even start to play like a monster either-- I just mean stay healthy over an entire season. If that happened, I actually think I'd prefer Houston's WRs to Philly's.

[TEX]

And it's that lack of an eye-popping top 5 #1 WR on the Eagles that makes me question it, to be honest. That's the big one.

Like... I might even take Houston's WRs over the Eagles. The Texans' problem is staying healthy, but Coutee is definitely ready to bust out as a poor man's Tyreek Hill, and they have who I think is the best WR in the game, Deandre Hopkins. It would all boil down to whether or not Will Fuller wants to take off the diapers. And not even start to play like a monster either-- I just mean stay healthy over an entire season. If that happened, I actually think I'd prefer Houston's WRs to Philly's.

Yep. When Fuller is healthy, they have a legit deep threat that can get behind the defense. When he gets hurt, their offense suffers a great deal. Last year they lost both he and Coutee, so both their over the top and underneath stuff was greatly diminished.

[staylor26]

And it's that lack of an eye-popping top 5 #1 WR on the Eagles that makes me question it, to be honest. That's the big one.

Like... I might even take Houston's WRs over the Eagles. The Texans' problem is staying healthy, but Coutee is definitely ready to bust out as a poor man's Tyreek Hill, and they have who I think is the best WR in the game, Deandre Hopkins. It would all boil down to whether or not Will Fuller wants to take off the diapers. And not even start to play like a monster either-- I just mean stay healthy over an entire season. If that happened, I actually think I'd prefer Houston's WRs to Philly's.

I’d also take the Browns, Bucs, Falcons, Chargers, and Lions WR’s over theirs. The Bengals too when healthy.

I’ll take 2 studs over 1 over the hill stud, an inconsistent young guy, and an over the hill speedster.

[chiefzilla1501]

Wentz is in danger of losing his locker room for playing favorites (e.g., Ertz), not running the playa as called, and generally being a polarizing leader.

And he’s injury prone.

There are also rumors that Wentz has a painkiller problem. I also would trust Reid 100 times more than pederson. In terms of developing a qb and scheming around him.

[staylor26]

Wentz is in danger of losing his locker room for playing favorites (e.g., Ertz), not running the playa as called, and generally being a polarizing leader.

And he’s injury prone.

I haven’t seen this anywhere. Where did you hear it?

[RunKC]

I could be a shitmassive huge homer, granted. Or maybe just misinformed about the Eagles since their Super Bowl win.

But am I the only one who would rather have our WRs over the Eagles'? I know PFF ranked the Eagles WRs #1 in the league recently, so I guess the metrics must support that assertion, but I compare their top 3 to our top 3, and I can't help but prefer what we've got.

Hill, Watkins, Robinson > Desean, Alshon, Agholor

I mean, take the bottom two guys from the Eagles, and yeah, I'd rather have them over Watkins and Robinson, but it's the presence of Hill with us that puts ours over the top, I think. And if you go further down the line, I'm sure Arcega-Whiteside is a nice guy and might even be a damn good WR, but I just like Hardman better in his upside and potential as a pro.

Yes, the duel threat of Ertz and Goedert trumps Kelce alone. And yes, the Eagles have the #1 OL in football, and ours isn't even close. And while we're decently deep at RB, I think the Eagles are a significant notch stronger than us at that spot as well (though I think we've got more speed).

But in terms of WR comparison? Like Philly's daaaaamn good, but am I wrong in thinking the Chiefs have it a bit better in that area?

I’m talking full supporting cast. Our WR’s are better, but they have one of the best TE’s + Goedert. We all know the TE is basically a WR in Andy’s offense, which Peterson uses.

There’s no question their OL is better than ours. Same with the TE position as a whole. Same with the RB position as a whole too.

[RealSNR]

I’d also take the Browns, Bucs, Falcons, Chargers, and Lions WR’s over theirs. The Bengals too when healthy.

I’ll take 2 studs over 1 over the hill stud, an inconsistent young guy, and an over the hill speedster.

Yes to the Browns and the Falcons. Maybe the Chargers as well (Allen might be the most injury prone dude in the league). I'd still take the Eagles WRs over the Bucs and the Lions, but that's not for lack of Mike Evans being a top 3 WR in the league.

[staylor26]

Yes to the Browns and the Falcons. Maybe the Chargers as well (Allen might be the most injury prone dude in the league). I'd still take the Eagles WRs over the Bucs and the Lions, but that's not for lack of Mike Evans being a top 3 WR in the league.

Chris Godwin might be better than every WR on the Eagles.

He just hasn’t quite gotten to show it with their QB play and Evans across from him.

And Golladay > Jeffrey

Jones > Djax or Agholor

[RealSNR]

A lot of shit gets said about Wentz that really isn't true.

I know his family and a few of his old NDSU teammates, and Wentz comes back to Fargo a lot in the offseason to speak at various events around the university and community.

He has one problem, and it's the same problem he had at NDSU: staying healthy. That's it. The stuff about his leadership and dividing the locker room seems like a lot of horse shit to me from what I've seen. No, I'm not in that Eagles locker room, but I'll bet anything it's just some players believe Foles had a magic horseshoe shoved up his ass. NFL players are weird about that kind of shit. That distraction is now gone, and it's Wentz's team from here on out, this time with a completely healthy knee.

The painkillers I have not heard a single thing about.

[Skyy God]

I haven’t seen this anywhere. Where did you hear it?

https://www.phillyvoice.com/carson-wentz-exclusive-sources-paint-eagles-quarterback-as-selfish-not-team-player/

[BigCatDaddy]

A petty GM, a peter principled head coach and a jackass QB.

Yeah, that franchise is going to contend with us in the AFC for YEARS!

Add in OBJ and that thing is heading for a cliff.

[SAUTO]

I agree that Mayfield may be the 2nd best young QB for the reasons you listed except one - How can you say that Watson has a noodle arm? That's highly inaccurate. Watson has a very strong arm. His problem is he has a shit OL, a not-so-good HC, and above all, he holds on to the ball too long b/c he can't read defenses very well and does not see the whole field. His arm is not his problem.
ROFL

Watson and very strong arm haven't ever been said together before you just typed it.

[Deberg_1990]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;I just don’t like the idea of my franchise quarterback spending time at a baseball game. I mean, what are you doing, <a href="https://twitter.com/bakermayfield?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@bakermayfield</a>? You don’t see guys like Aaron Rodgers shotgunning beers. Just not a good look. Go watch some film.&quot; - <a href="https://twitter.com/ColinCowherd?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ColinCowherd</a> (probably)<br><br>Legend. <a href="https://t.co/IUCW1Kp4s3">pic.twitter.com/IUCW1Kp4s3</a></p>&mdash; Cleveland Indians (@Indians) <a href="https://twitter.com/Indians/status/1157818848147628032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[staylor26]

https://i.imgur.com/XcvrwfC.jpg

The guy had an impressive season no doubt, but this does put it into perspective. Mahomes is the rare case that you don’t hesitate after one year to crown them. Mayfield is not. He needs to get it done against winning teams before we even have that conversation.

[Buehler445]

Colin Cowherd (probably)

Well done Indians twitter guy. Well done.

[RedRaider56]

And Mayfield isn’t just “not Mahomes”. He’s nowhere fucking close on the field or in the locker room as a leader. That douche had veteran players coming to him pissed after he ran his mouth about Duke Johnson. He thinks he’s Mahomes. That’s the problem. He already feels like he’s arrived and you can see it in his actions such as that. The dudes entering year 2 and having beef with a college QB through the media. Who does that?


I wish nothing but failure on Mayfield. The dude is a douche of the highest degree.

[RealSNR]

Yeeeahhh.... he mad.

Bob might be full of shit, but Freddie's bit about the unnamed source crap is pretty touchy and defensive. This wasn't an unnamed source. The guy said it on the radio. Where the hell is Freddie getting that shit from?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QRUNDy9SLKw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ModSocks]

Yeeeahhh.... he mad.

Bob might be full of shit, but Freddie's bit about the unnamed source crap is pretty touchy and defensive. This wasn't an unnamed source. The guy said it on the radio. Where the hell is Freddie getting that shit from?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QRUNDy9SLKw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This team is going to fucking implode. It may not happen THIS season, but it will happen. The HC is waaaay too emotional. You have an emotional QB, emotional HC and two emotional WR's, and apparently an emotional RB who wants to be traded because Kareem Hunt.

[ModSocks]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;I just don’t like the idea of my franchise quarterback spending time at a baseball game. I mean, what are you doing, <a href="https://twitter.com/bakermayfield?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@bakermayfield</a>? You don’t see guys like Aaron Rodgers shotgunning beers. Just not a good look. Go watch some film.&quot; - <a href="https://twitter.com/ColinCowherd?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ColinCowherd</a> (probably)<br><br>Legend. <a href="https://t.co/IUCW1Kp4s3">pic.twitter.com/IUCW1Kp4s3</a></p>&mdash; Cleveland Indians (@Indians) <a href="https://twitter.com/Indians/status/1157818848147628032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Maybe im alone here, but this would not make me feel good about my QB.

[RunKC]

https://i.imgur.com/XcvrwfC.jpg

The guy had an impressive season no doubt, but this does put it into perspective. Mahomes is the rare case that you don’t hesitate after one year to crown them. Mayfield is not. He needs to get it done against winning teams before we even have that conversation.

“Mahomes can’t win big games”

Sounds like the same argument

[lcarus]

They beat like 2 winning teams last year. Yea they weren’t the worst team in football anymore, but let’s give that “dramatic turnaround” some perspective.

And Mayfield isn’t just “not Mahomes”. He’s nowhere fucking close on the field or in the locker room as a leader. That douche had veteran players coming to him pissed after he ran his mouth about Duke Johnson. He thinks he’s Mahomes. That’s the problem. He already feels like he’s arrived and you can see it in his actions such as that. The dudes entering year 2 and having beef with a college QB through the media. Who does that?

Also, they have some very combustible personalities in that locker room besides just their QB, to go with a rookie HC. With expectations as high as they are, things could get ugly quickly whether it’s this year, next, or some other time in the future. To predict they’ll be a perennial playoff team before they’ve even made the playoffs is beyond premature.

They were also a few kicker gaffes away from winning another 3 or 4 games last year and that was when they still had Hue Jackson and Tyrod Taylor starting. And they got straight up screwed against the Raiders. Victory literally snatched out of their grasp by a horrible spot. I don't think they're a Super Bowl contender yet but they should be a pretty good team.

[chiefzilla1501]

https://i.imgur.com/XcvrwfC.jpg

The guy had an impressive season no doubt, but this does put it into perspective. Mahomes is the rare case that you don’t hesitate after one year to crown them. Mayfield is not. He needs to get it done against winning teams before we even have that conversation.

Mayfield isn't mahomes. Who is? But if we didn't have mahomes, I wouldn't be too upset about having baker. It's not what yards he gets. It's how he gets them. He's a very different qb than mahomes. The guy might be one of the slipperiest qbs in the NFL and unlike most slippery qbs, he can actually read defenses and has terrific arm strength to throw on the run. I despise him because he's totally unlikable if he's not on your team. Sure we need to see more of the guy but it's not like a Josh allen thing where he just feels like a fluke. Baker looks like the real deal.

[Bump]

Ya the Browns are going to be melting down for sure. They have such high hopes this season, I can already tell those dreams are going to be crushed.

[RunKC]

Mahomes is amazing, but situation matters so much. Pat hd 23 TD’s with receivers open (3 yards or more) which led the NFL.

He isn’t 50 TD/5k Pat playing for the shitty ass Browns or getting killed by Houston’s OL

[SAUTO]

Mahomes is amazing, but situation matters so much. Pat hd 23 TD’s with receivers open (3 yards or more) which led the NFL.

He isn’t 50 TD/5k Pat playing for the shitty ass Browns or getting killed by Houston’s OL

Or maybe those teams QBs just didn't get the ball to the open guy.

[staylor26]

“Mahomes can’t win big games”

Sounds like the same argument

Lol no it’s really not.

Mahomes was good to great in those big games. Mayfield was not.

[staylor26]

Maybe im alone here, but this would not make me feel good about my QB.

If it were the offseason? Sure, go ahead.

But this was in the middle of camp.

[BryanBusby]

Maybe im alone here, but this would not make me feel good about my QB.
If it was the teams day off, who gives a shit what he does as long as it doesn't involve getting in trouble with the law?

[Jimmya]

Fu** the Browns... Perennial losers

[Buehler445]

Or maybe those teams QBs just didn't get the ball to the open guy.

Plus our OL isn’t that great. Comparing across teams just doesn’t work.

[RunKC]

Or maybe those teams QBs just didn't get the ball to the open guy.

Watson was sacked the 4th most of any QB ever and he’s one of the most mobile QB’s in the league.
He had 1 reliable receiver last year and his coach is a Patriot Way reject who is fucking awful.

Pat plays there, he might not even make it through the season without getting injured.

[DRM08]

Sounds like the head coach answers to Baker. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Like father, like son.

Clark's dad and uncles tried to corner the silver market, Clark tried to corner the douchebag GM market.

[BigCatDaddy]

Watson was sacked the 4th most of any QB ever and he’s one of the most mobile QB’s in the league.
He had 1 reliable receiver last year and his coach is a Patriot Way reject who is ****ing awful.

Pat plays there, he might not even make it through the season without getting injured.

Your post in this thread are shit and make no sense.