Why are so many dissing our improved defense?

[BigRedChief]

Obviously, it still needs work. Not there yet. But, cant you see the improvement? They are maintaining their gaps instead of free lancing. They are not figuring out what to do in pre-snap. No more confusion. They know their job at least.

In today's NFL, they don't hit each other other, tackle in training camp anymore. They play few snaps in the pre-season games. It's a new scheme. Lots of new starters. I see a defense that is taking shape. Go look at the breakdowns of the defense from last year to the first two games. It's telling.

Without a great corner its not going to be a top 10 defense. But, its already made it from one of the worse to the 19th ranked defense in the NFL. Haven't the majority on here said all off season that we just needed a middle of the pack defense to make a Super Bowl?

We are going to have at least a middle of the pack defense. People need to chill. Start panicking at mid-season at least.

[Easy 6]

I don’t get it either, the progress is easy to see and should only get better with time as everyone gets more comfortable with each other, and the scheme

[tredadda]

We haven’t gone from the worst defense to the 85 Bears overnight. Because of that it hasn’t improved. We do need to upgrade our corners though as this defense would have been good enough to win a SB with before NE got Gordon reinstated for like the 5th time and signed AB.

[Tribal Warfare]

I don’t get it either, the progress is easy to see and should only get better with time as everyone gets more comfortable with each other, and the scheme

Chris Carter believes that the Chiefs Defense is terrible no matter the progress, he's deadset comparing KC to the '98 Vikings because of their horrific Defensive corps.

[Sassy Squatch]

We got sliced and diced by a dude who is most known for doing stretches in his jock strap and having a porn company salivating over him because of it. There's potential there but these guys haven't done shit against a potent offense yet. Sunday is their chance to prove doubters wrong.

[KChiefs1]

Chris Carter believes that the Chiefs Defense is terrible no matter the progress, he's deadset comparing KC to the '98 Vikings because of their horrific Defensive corps.


Marcellus Wiley knew they had improved.

[New World Order]

I think it's our inflated YPC on defense

Statistically, we're one of the worst in the league but that is completely overblown as most of the big runs have come in garbage time.

If you focus on the first half runs Fournette and Jacob's YPC is around 4.0.

[Simply Red]

because we had large periods of time where we were gashed in both games and had to adjust. We need to be gashless - we're on a short leash w/ the critics and maybe rightfully so...

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I think it's our inflated YPC on defense

Statistically, we're one of the worst in the league but that is completely overblown as most of the big runs have come in garbage time.

If you focus on the first half runs Fournette and Jacob's YPC is around 4.0.

We are 12th in the league in rushing defense

[WhiteWhale]

It's not going to get any respect until they play well against an offense that's good.

Hold Baltimore under 350 yards and 20 points, and I bet people will START giving them some respect.

You gotta earn that shit. Kc hasn't proven anything against the Jags and Raiders. Just like putting up some decent (not good) offensive numbers against terrible defenses isn't going to wow anyone.

If you believe in the defense, who gives a shit what pundits are saying after two games? Moreover, would YOU give the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt in this regard if they were NOT your team?

[New World Order]

We are 12th in the league in rushing defense

We're tied for last in defensive ypc.

[Lzen]

Everyone can talk about Jacksonville and a rookie QB but we held Oakland to 50 yards less than Denver did. And Denver's defense is supposed to be good. Right?

I know 2 game is not a good sample size. Time will tell. Plus, I think this defense will get better as the season progresses.

[Chris Meck]

because we had large periods of time where we were gashed in both games and had to adjust. We need to be gashless - we're on a short leash w/ the critics and maybe rightfully so...

SEW UP THAT COOTER

[arrowheadnation]

We're in a special position because of our Offense. We don't need a top 10 defense to win the superbowl. We need them to be somewhere in the teens to lower 20's. My buddy and I always say we just need them to old our opponents scoring under 20 and our chances of winning will be ridiculously high. So far this year, other than 2 garbage time TD's vs. Jacksonville, they have held our opponents to 13 and 10 points. Compared to last year, if that is not improvement, I don't know what is. We will definitely learn more on Sunday.

[Chris Meck]

It's clearly better.

There is still a lot of work to be done cleaning things up, but the glaring mistakes are far fewer and further between.

Thornhill's bitten on some fakes that have created some big plays. Jones got out of his lane and let that big Jacobs run go down.

But overall, it's much, much better.

Hitchens has looked pretty good too, I think it's worth mentioning.

I expect we'll see some sacks this week as Jackson's not a 'get the ball out in 2.5 seconds or less' kind of guy.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

PMII is 24 & 2 days. Enjoy the peace of confidence. Not the unquenchable hunger in fear

[Chris Meck]

It's not going to get any respect until they play well against an offense that's good.

Hold Baltimore under 350 yards and 20 points, and I bet people will START giving them some respect.

You gotta earn that shit. Kc hasn't proven anything against the Jags and Raiders. Just like putting up some decent (not good) offensive numbers against terrible defenses isn't going to wow anyone.

If you believe in the defense, who gives a shit what pundits are saying after two games? Moreover, would YOU give the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt in this regard if they were NOT your team?

Not arguing your point, but as you say-putting up big numbers against a terrible defense isn't going to wow anyone

yet, everyone is terrified of the Patriots after hanging all those points on the hapless Dolphins.

[WhiteWhale]

Not arguing your point, but as you say-putting up big numbers against a terrible defense isn't going to wow anyone

yet, everyone is terrified of the Patriots after hanging all those points on the hapless Dolphins.

Well, the Patriots have a great QB, a reputation for success, and have added talent. They were gushing BEFORE that game about the Patriots. They were AFC favorites by many before the season started.

The Pats offense isn't a team with a 3 year history of struggles that just replaced their stars and coaching staff. They're a good offense that added some good players to a system with a good track record.

Not really apples and apples to compare the patriots offense to the chiefs defense.

I was thinking the Ravens themselves were a better comparison. Or the Cowboys. Everyone is jerking off the Cowboys offense and who the hell have they played?

But, again, those teams weren't total dumpster fires on offense last year like KC was on defense.

[Easy 6]

We got sliced and diced by a dude who is most known for doing stretches in his jock strap and having a porn company salivating over him because of it. There's potential there but these guys haven't done shit against a potent offense yet. Sunday is their chance to prove doubters wrong.

Sliced and diced to the tune of six whole points

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Because Brady won the Super Bowl. Talking about the Chiefs playing much better D destroys all the Brady hype.

Mahomes makes every team look bad. Theres a ton of jealousy. People are so jealous of Mahomes that they're willing to put the Brady hate behind them. I never dreamed it would come to this but it has. Mahomes makes makes Peyton, Beese, and Brady look like average QB's. People hate it. It started with the Rams game and only got bigger.

[Hoover]

Fans want to see the defense play perfectly. Seriously, they will bitch after every 3rd down conversions.

The media is full of idiots. They talk about teams as if they were exactly the same as they were last year. Until it becomes obvious things have changed.

[Mecca]

Until the Chiefs win a game like 17-10 against some high powered offense the narrative will be that it sucks.

[Rasputin]

This defense knows how to tackle. They wrap up and drive the ball carrier to the ground not the arm tackles that they would go through.

Yuge difference in tackling.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Until the Chiefs win a game like 17-10 against some high powered offense the narrative will be that it sucks.

But we havnt scored less than 26 since Mahomes took over

[scho63]

This defense knows how to tackle. They wrap up and drive the ball carrier to the ground not the arm tackles that they would go through.

Yuge difference in tackling.

This is true and I agree! :thumb:

[J Diddy]

I agree they are tackling better, however, the first 5 quarters of this season looked like last year’s defense. The last 3 looked improved. I’m not gonna crown them just yet.

[Valiant]

Meh, they will be questioned until they perform against a good playoff team. Our first test is this Sunday against the Ravens it seems. The better tests are the pack and Patriots. Those are the teams we have to see in tight playoff games.

There also needs focus on our oline. Pat masks a lot of their bad protection. We need to draft are trade for good athletic fatties to protect pat from taking shots ala Brady's line.

[KChiefs1]

Shutout the Ravens & they’ll get some accolades.

[Halfcan]

Honey Badger looked terrible against the Faders. I hope he steps it up.

[staylor26]

Honey Badger looked terrible against the Faders. I hope he steps it up.

The only way you can come to this conclusion is if you think that big play that led to a PI was on him.

News flash: he was supposed to be on the other side of the field. That was the rookies mistake.

[brorth]

..

[staylor26]

To answer the question of this thread:

CP won’t be satisfied unless this is a legitimate top 10 defense. While they say we just needed to get significantly better, they aren’t going to have confidence in it until they’re legitimately really good.

And some idiots weren’t going to give credit unless they saw that much improvement week 1.

[PAChiefsGuy]

It's funny too how 90% of the guys screaming for Ramesay were the same guys saying the only problem with the D was coaching, not talent, when Sutton was here...

[FlorentinePogen]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most pressures this season (PFF)<br><br>15 - Za&#39;Darius Smith, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen<br><br>11- Myles Garrett, Chris Jones, Dante Fowler, Khalil Mack, Brandon Graham<br><br>10 - Marcus Davenport, Nick Bosa, Quinton Jefferson, Preston Smith, Devon Kennard, Justin Houston</p>&mdash; Ian Hartitz (@Ihartitz) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1174693568549740545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Buehler445]

We got sliced and diced by a dude who is most known for doing stretches in his jock strap and having a porn company salivating over him because of it. There's potential there but these guys haven't done shit against a potent offense yet. Sunday is their chance to prove doubters wrong.

You’re right on.

Except maybe they won’t get a ton of pub because I think the media is anxious to say “SEE. Can’t win with Lamar”.

RE: OP. I don’t think we need an elite CB. They cost too much and they’re easy to mitigate. (See: Peters and Gaines on the outside)

We get one on a rookie contract I’m down. But big money? Not from
This guy.

[Buehler445]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most pressures this season (PFF)<br><br>15 - Za&#39;Darius Smith, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen<br><br>11- Myles Garrett, Chris Jones, Dante Fowler, Khalil Mack, Brandon Graham<br><br>10 - Marcus Davenport, Nick Bosa, Quinton Jefferson, Preston Smith, Devon Kennard, Justin Houston</p>&mdash; Ian Hartitz (@Ihartitz) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1174693568549740545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

You can tell me how good he is all you want but it would still look like dog balls on his old contract. And it looked like he wasn’t renegotiating. Either that or the staff wanted him out.

[Hammock Parties]

they hate us

cus they aint us

[Aspengc8]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most pressures this season (PFF)<br><br>15 - Za&#39;Darius Smith, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen<br><br>11- Myles Garrett, Chris Jones, Dante Fowler, Khalil Mack, Brandon Graham<br><br>10 - Marcus Davenport, Nick Bosa, Quinton Jefferson, Preston Smith, Devon Kennard, Justin Houston</p>&mdash; Ian Hartitz (@Ihartitz) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1174693568549740545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Must be nice getting all those 1v1's since protection is focused on Denico Autry and Sheard. Kinda like Jones getting all those pressures.

[WhiteWhale]

To answer the question of this thread:

CP won’t be satisfied unless this is a legitimate top 10 defense. While they say we just needed to get significantly better, they aren’t going to have confidence in it until they’re legitimately really good.

And some idiots weren’t going to give credit unless they saw that much improvement week 1.

Yeah, nobody said that but PLEASE strawman away.

It's so much easier to just make up arguments to defeat than addressing anything that's actually been said.

This is about as accurate as if I said "Staylor thinks KC is already a top 5 defense!"

But I don't.

Because you didn't say that, and I'm not a prick.

[Hoover]

Chubb and Von Miller have zero sacks this season. They suck.

Signed Chiefsplanet

[staylor26]

Yeah, nobody said that but PLEASE strawman away.

It's so much easier to just make up arguments to defeat than addressing anything that's actually been said.

This is about as accurate as if I said "Staylor thinks KC is already a top 5 defense!"

But I don't.

Because you didn't say that, and I'm not a prick.

Who the fuck said your name or that I was talking about you?

[O.city]

The Chiefs have been worse vs the run statistically than they were last year thru 2 games.

[Lzen]

Until the Chiefs win a game like 17-10 against some high powered offense the narrative will be that it sucks.

Well, since no team is gonna hold the Chiefs (barring a bunch of injuries on offense) to 17 points, that's not gonna happen.

[Megatron96]

The Chiefs have been worse vs the run statistically than they were last year thru 2 games.

Classic example of why using very small samples sizes/data sets to derive statistical analyses can be misleading.

While it's true that after two games in 2019 the Chiefs are giving up more rushing yards/game (105) than last year with a 13th overall ranking, at this point, the Jets are just 6 yards per game better than us.

Any argument that the Jets are going to finish the season in the top 10 against the run?

Furthermore, the Vikings, Jags, and Packers are all currently worse against the run than the Chiefs. And the Raiders currently 50 yds/game better than us, and are ranked 5th overall against the run after two games.

Does anyone really believe that the Raiders are going to finish the season as one of the top 5 defenses against the run?

Conversely, the Chiefs are ninth in the league in points allowed per game. If we subtract the two garbage time TDs, we're ranked a lofty third in that statistic. THIRD.

Anyone think we'll hold onto that ranking by season's end?

I don't believe (other may have a different POV), that we can look at statistics just two weeks into the season and know anything definitively about our defense. We're pretty much forced to use the eye test with such a small sample size.

Of course the problem with that is, "what I think I see" vs. "what you think you see" can be wildly different.

Not that anyone should care, but my opinion is that we're going to finish the season as a better defense overall, and particularly against the run. The Chiefs front-7 looks more aggressive, less confused, and better at tackling. They are filling their gaps and for the most part holding their assignments better than last year. Our LBs sometimes show some hesitancy, and it's obvious that we don't have top tier LBs, but they aren't playing like the dumpster fire they were last year.

And I'll be honest, I think our secondary is better than what I thought it would be at this point. Don't get me wrong, yes, they're giving up a lot of yards right now, but I'm not seeing terribly blown coverages (systemic confusion), and I think the secondary is tackling better.

In other words, it's a work in progress. We have to be a little patient over the next few weeks and see how it shakes out. I think our defense will quietly be a solid middle-tier unit by mid-season. 16th or 17th. More than enough to get us to the Super Bowl, as long as our offense plays at least 80-90% to the level of what they did last year.

[BigRedChief]

Looked better this week too. Still many issues, the tackling geeeezzz:doh!:
But, still improving each week.

[Chris Meck]

Looked better this week too. Still many issues, the tackling geeeezzz:doh!:
But, still improving each week.

True, but to be fair, Jackson is a unique problem and was obviously the first concern.

This opened them up to YAC from Ingram as they're thinking "contain, contain, contain" instead of being aggressive and attacking the ball.

It must be difficult indeed to switch gears in a quarter of a second after the snap.

Overall, I'm pleased with the progression of the defense. I think they get a little better every week and the secondary in particular played quite well this week.

[tatorhog]

Looked better this week too. Still many issues, the tackling geeeezzz:doh!:
But, still improving each week.

They stopped what I think would have otherwise been sustained drives that ultimately would have led to points. So there is improvement.

They do a number of little things better than they did last year, and that's encouraging as well.

[stumppy]

Isn't this defense what we were hoping for all through the off season? They're not a top 10 defense but they are a helluva lot better than previous years, and they'll get better as the season goes along. I think they did a pretty good job yesterday considering who and how they had to play.

[notorious]

The wounded duck prayer throws enraged me.


That's all we are going to see against Houston. The secondary better pull their heads out of their ass.

[KCUnited]

Seems to be a lot less grabbing going on in the secondary and guys are in better position to cover. Hard to tell going up against a Lamar Jackson and his scud missile like accuracy though, but the secondary does appear to be improved.

[stumppy]

The wounded duck prayer throws enraged me.


That's all we are going to see against Houston. The secondary better pull their heads out of their ass.

Me too. Take away those two lucky throws/catches and the scoreboard looks a lot different.

[Molitoth]

In the end, opposing teams are still converting 3rd and 18's on the Chiefs... whether it be by some stupid fucking miracle toss up bullshit pass with OPI that doesn't get called, or whatever...

[Molitoth]

Our Secondary needs to stop playing with their stone hands and start catching balls.
So many dropped INT's that come back to bite.

[notorious]

Me too. Take away those two lucky throws/catches and the scoreboard looks a lot different.

This Chiefs team is infinitely better that those turds, yet once again we are having to hold our breath thanks to garbage and Reid's clock management.

Oh yeah, Thompson was a complete moron, too.

I want to see 37-13, 42-13, etc. Stop letting teams back in the game FFS.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Does Anthony Hitchens have any desire to be on a football field at this point? Is he injured? I know the dude sucks, but at least put forth a little bit of effort for God's sake. I'd run the ball right up the middle 90% of the time if I were designing a gameplan against our D.

Except for those 2 embarrassing hail Marys, other than Bitchens I thought our D played pretty well.

[FloridaMan88]

The defense needs to minimize the long drives they are continuously giving up.

14, 13 and 10 play drives given up yesterday.

10 play drive given up to the Raiders on their opening drive.

Two 9 play drives given up vs. Jacksonville.

The defense needs to force more negative/yardage loss plays on first/second downs.

[notorious]

Does Anthony Hitchens have any desire to be on a football field at this point? Is he injured? I know the dude sucks, but at least put forth a little bit of effort for God's sake. I'd run the ball right up the middle 90% of the time if I were designing a gameplan against our D.

Except for those 2 embarrassing hail Marys, other than Bitchens I thought our D played pretty well.

Exactly.

Harbaugh should have kept pounding it. Every time Lamar stepped back to pass it helped us.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't even have a giant problem with the Fuller hail mary - that was just bad luck. He was right there in the guys pocket but the WR found the ball first - shit happens.

The Ward play, OTOH, was !@#$ing terrible. It was lazy. He had that ball lined up easily for the pick and rather than attack it and use his body to shield off anyone that might make a play on it, he just seemed to assume that nobody would try. That was a completion born of sheer complacence and stupidity.

The last TD drive was just as prevent as prevent gets.

The defense was okay. It wasn't great but it wasn't bad. That'll play.

And if Mathieu and Clark can't unfuck themselves, it's as good as we're gonna get. And ultimately that's the real answer - why are people down on the defense right now? Because the two most visible components and high-end additions to it have been varying degrees of invisible to ineffective.

And if this is the play we get from them this season, then the ceiling of the defense truly will be 'eh, alright'. If they start stepping up and playing to the level of their paychecks, perhaps people will be a little more laudatory of the D. And frankly, the D will likely be a hell of a lot better if that does happen.

[scho63]

Our Secondary needs to stop playing with their stone hands and start catching balls.
So many dropped INT's that come back to bite.

How about just spotting the ball on the throw? Our guys heads are always looking in the wrong place, ALWAYS! :doh!:

[O.city]

I thought Mathieu was pretty good yesterday, got his hands on 2 throws that should have been picks for sure though.

I don't know if Clark is pressing or what's going on there.

[DJ's left nut]

I thought Mathieu was pretty good yesterday, got his hands on 2 throws that should have been picks for sure though.

I don't know if Clark is pressing or what's going on there.

He also embarassed the shit out of himself on the Jackson TD run. He's not been the force coming downhill that I thought he would be. He's been okay - him and Thornhill are clearly upgrades on what we had.

But I won't get to 'pretty good' yesterday. He was fine. He wasn't appreciably better than our 2nd round rookie. He wasn't all that much better than Sorensen in the limited reps Sorensen got. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't good. He was fine.

He was a lot like defense writ large yesterday - ultimately not bad but didn't come through in some key spots that could've really made that game go a lot differently.

Like I said - so long as damning with faint praise is the best we can do for the two most visible members of the defense, nobody's gonna be too fired up about the D's performance.

[stevieray]

We're three games in.

Not panicking.

[Hammock Parties]

The Ravens have an elite OL and solid RB - Jackson makes their running game even harder to defend.

They're gonna get theirs.

This D isn't gonna be great but it's good enough.

[O.city]

He also embarassed the shit out of himself on the Jackson TD run. He's not been the force coming downhill that I thought he would be. He's been okay - him and Thornhill are clearly upgrades on what we had.

But I won't get to 'pretty good' yesterday. He was fine. He wasn't appreciably better than our 2nd round rookie. He wasn't all that much better than Sorensen in the limited reps Sorensen got. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't good. He was fine.

He was a lot like defense writ large yesterday - ultimately not bad but didn't come through in some key spots that could've really made that game go a lot differently.

Like I said - so long as damning with faint praise is the best we can do for the two most visible members of the defense, nobody's gonna be too fired up about the D's performance.

Yeah, the run wasn't ideal.

But I thought he was good yesterday. That's a weird offense to defend.

For all the praise Jackson has got, watching him live yesterday was pretty much all I needed to realize that the dude just can't throw well enough to survive.

[L.A. Chieffan]

I'm pretty sure I could run for 80 yards and a touch against this front.

Secondary looks better tho.

[O.city]

The Ravens have an elite OL and solid RB - Jackson makes their running game even harder to defend.

They're gonna get theirs.

This D isn't gonna be great but it's good enough.

With Ogbah and Okafor showing what they have and Wilson thrown in there, I think they could legitimately get to "good" status if the stars would start Starring.

[stevieray]

I'm pretty sure I could run for 80 yards and a touch against this front.


LMAO

^scooby snack for Chris Jones^

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, the run wasn't ideal.

But I thought he was good yesterday. That's a weird offense to defend.

For all the praise Jackson has got, watching him live yesterday was pretty much all I needed to realize that the dude just can't throw well enough to survive.

And that's the key takeaway but also why I can't give Mathieu anything more than a C+ for yesterday.

3 key plays that didn't get made and on a number of deep shots, Jackson just flat missed because he simply isn't very good. If they have a passer that can punish the Chiefs downfield more, that could've easily been an L.

Jackson sucks. He's always sucked, he'll always suck. He's a novelty that's a pain in the ass to deal with but that's it. If our 2 key offseason additions actually play to the reputation bestowed upon them 'round here (rather than the excuses made for them repeatedly), it's a 3 score game when all is said and done.

And had Jackson not sucked, the Chiefs could've easily lost.

But in the end, this is a team built on its offense so it's defense only really needs to be okay. Which is fortunate because 'okay' is about all they were and that was largely on the backs of unheralded additions. I reiterate - you want to know why folks aren't singing the praises of the D? Because it's playing okay and its marquee components are playing at/near the level of fungible NFL starters. That's not bad, but it's not great. Fix that and you'll see people being more complementary.

[DJ's left nut]

With Ogbah and Okafor showing what they have and Wilson thrown in there, I think they could legitimately get to "good" status if the stars would start Starring.

Okafor looks incredibly athletic out there. He had a couple of plays where he did almost a 'leap step' to close off a lane or something and looked demonstrably more explosive than anyone on that line other than Jones.

Okafor's been a hell of a get. And the Ogbah/K-Pass rotation has also been awfully effective.

There's been some nice production on the DL at times. Though I am gonna be curious to see the snap counts as I felt like Nnadi was really underutilized yesterday. With the Ravens trying to attack the middle, Nnadi should've been more prominent. I felt like he was off the field far too often.

[O.city]

Okafor looks incredibly athletic out there. He had a couple of plays where he did almost a 'leap step' to close off a lane or something and looked demonstrably more explosive than anyone on that line other than Jones.

Okafor's been a hell of a get. And the Ogbah/K-Pass rotation has also been awfully effective.

There's been some nice production on the DL at times. Though I am gonna be curious to see the snap counts as I felt like Nnadi was really underutilized yesterday. With the Ravens trying to attack the middle, Nnadi should've been more prominent. I felt like he was off the field far too often.

I noticed they were moving guys in and out on the DL a lot so they seemed worn down.

I really would have liked to see them get a stop or two in the 4th so that ends up a 3 score game and we don't have to hear all about the Ravens, but whatever.

It's kind of weird in that there was a feeling in the stadium after halftime like "eh, this was fun but were done with it, move on the season and lets get to the end" thing.

It's truly a "nothing matters until the postseason" year.

[O.city]

And that's the key takeaway but also why I can't give Mathieu anything more than a C+ for yesterday.

3 key plays that didn't get made and on a number of deep shots, Jackson just flat missed because he simply isn't very good. If they have a passer that can punish the Chiefs downfield more, that could've easily been an L.

Jackson sucks. He's always sucked, he'll always suck. He's a novelty that's a pain in the ass to deal with but that's it. If our 2 key offseason additions actually play to the reputation bestowed upon them 'round here (rather than the excuses made for them repeatedly), it's a 3 score game when all is said and done.

And had Jackson not sucked, the Chiefs could've easily lost.

But in the end, this is a team built on its offense so it's defense only really needs to be okay. Which is fortunate because 'okay' is about all they were and that was largely on the backs of unheralded additions. I reiterate - you want to know why folks aren't singing the praises of the D? Because it's playing okay and its marquee components are playing at/near the level of fungible NFL starters. That's not bad, but it's not great. Fix that and you'll see people being more complementary.

Yeah, he's not here to "almost" make those plays. They need him to be the dude taking the ball away and making big plays.

[notorious]

Do you guys remember how Sutton would leave the same DLine in until they were wore down to nothing?


Yeah, that's how stupid he was.

[O.city]

I watched Jones a lot specifically yesterday.

He's good. For sure. But there are a few hints of "take a few plays off in there". I'm ok with it, but dang

[Danguardace]

Do you guys remember how Sutton would leave the same DLine in until they were wore down to nothing?


Yeah, that's how stupid he was.

Did Saunders get any reps yesterday?

[KCUnited]

Did Saunders get any reps yesterday?

Inactive

[New World Order]

Do you guys remember how Sutton would leave the same DLine in until they were wore down to nothing?


Yeah, that's how stupid he was.

Dontari Poe should still be in the prime of his career.

He should have been a HOFer.

Thanks Bob.

[tyreekthefreak]

Xavier Williams is a liability up front too. No push on passing downs and easily manhandled on running plays. Who was supposed to make him expendable during preseason?

[T-post Tom]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/26zzdvOdLA3vCNnsA/giphy.gif

[htismaqe]

Obviously, it still needs work. Not there yet. But, cant you see the improvement? They are maintaining their gaps instead of free lancing. They are not figuring out what to do in pre-snap. No more confusion. They know their job at least.

In today's NFL, they don't hit each other other, tackle in training camp anymore. They play few snaps in the pre-season games. It's a new scheme. Lots of new starters. I see a defense that is taking shape. Go look at the breakdowns of the defense from last year to the first two games. It's telling.

Without a great corner its not going to be a top 10 defense. But, its already made it from one of the worse to the 19th ranked defense in the NFL. Haven't the majority on here said all off season that we just needed a middle of the pack defense to make a Super Bowl?

We are going to have at least a middle of the pack defense. People need to chill. Start panicking at mid-season at least.

:clap::clap::clap:

[htismaqe]

The Ravens have an elite OL and solid RB - Jackson makes their running game even harder to defend.

They're gonna get theirs.

This D isn't gonna be great but it's good enough.

Yep.

[GoHuge]

We are 24th in yards allowed, as we all know is a lot of the game is out of reach garbage yards. We are 14th in pts allowed which is what really matters. Still just 3 weeks into a completely new defensive scheme and half the starting personnel are new. It will continue to improve.

[Bowser]

They're absolute shit, Brady is going to destroy us, we're not winning anything with this defense because they're just like the last three years worth of defense. /King

[O.city]

I really liked Ingram, he's a really good RB.

[htismaqe]

He also embarassed the shit out of himself on the Jackson TD run. He's not been the force coming downhill that I thought he would be. He's been okay - him and Thornhill are clearly upgrades on what we had.

But I won't get to 'pretty good' yesterday. He was fine. He wasn't appreciably better than our 2nd round rookie. He wasn't all that much better than Sorensen in the limited reps Sorensen got. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't good. He was fine.

He was a lot like defense writ large yesterday - ultimately not bad but didn't come through in some key spots that could've really made that game go a lot differently.

Like I said - so long as damning with faint praise is the best we can do for the two most visible members of the defense, nobody's gonna be too fired up about the D's performance.

Thornhill had a subpar game yesterday. It's pretty obvious he's struggling with processing at game speed. He's just a step slow a lot of times, thinking too much. I don't know if Tyrann is suffering from the same or suffering from thinking he has to do too much because he sees what I see. Either way, he's got to focus on his job and let Thornhill do his.

[O.city]

When you look at some of these great defenses, they've been together for a while from the coordinator down to the players.

It's a mentality and a culture.

[htismaqe]

I don't even have a giant problem with the Fuller hail mary - that was just bad luck. He was right there in the guys pocket but the WR found the ball first - shit happens.

The Ward play, OTOH, was !@#$ing terrible. It was lazy. He had that ball lined up easily for the pick and rather than attack it and use his body to shield off anyone that might make a play on it, he just seemed to assume that nobody would try. That was a completion born of sheer complacence and stupidity.

The last TD drive was just as prevent as prevent gets.

The defense was okay. It wasn't great but it wasn't bad. That'll play.

And if Mathieu and Clark can't unfuck themselves, it's as good as we're gonna get. And ultimately that's the real answer - why are people down on the defense right now? Because the two most visible components and high-end additions to it have been varying degrees of invisible to ineffective.

And if this is the play we get from them this season, then the ceiling of the defense truly will be 'eh, alright'. If they start stepping up and playing to the level of their paychecks, perhaps people will be a little more laudatory of the D. And frankly, the D will likely be a hell of a lot better if that does happen.

I agree with most of this. The one thing I will offer is that Baltimore looked to be running away from Frank Clark early in the game. Almost all of the RPO reads were away from him and towards forcing the Chiefs to bottle Jackson up to the defensive left. Credit to the other guys for stepping up.

[Megatron96]

It's just fashionable right now to be negative about our defense; and possibly cultural as well. Most of the talking heads aren't impressed with our D, and the fans view the defense through either the lens of the glory days of the '90s or through the disaster of the recent past with Sutton.

None of it is accurate.

The truth is something like this: there is no such thing as a plug and play defense in the NFL. It's reality; not Madden 20.

It takes time to put a unit together, coach them up, and have them perform at a high level. When I say time, I mean at least several months of competition to iron out the rough spots. More than a year to reach something close to peak performance.

We are seeing the defense at the very beginning; think of the unit as a piece of iron ore. Spags is the blacksmith that must first heat and melt the ore, remove the slag, form an ingot/billet, and then forge the sword. That's a lot of steps in which things can go awry and must be fixed or redone before we end up with a finished product.

Also, we have to remember that we don't need and in fact we're not expecting that our defense be a top-5 unit. Or even a top-10 unit. We know that with this offense and Mahomes we don't need anything better than a top-16 unit, and we probably win the SB.

Regardless, it's a complete overreaction to expect that a new DC can put together a completely new defense compiled from mostly completely new players and have them perform to their potential in just 3 WEEKS. It's ridiculous.

[Buehler445]

I’ll withhold judgement until we play a team that can challenge us in multiple facets of the offense competently.

But I agree. If Sutton was still here Balt rushes for 650 yards. And 150 yards DPI penalties.

[BigRedChief]

I know our run defense still needs a lot of work but.......

This defense will be good enough in the playoffs to make a difference. When we need the defense to get off the field, get a 3rd and 9 stop to get the ball back to Mahomes, they will get it done. I’ve seen enough potential from Spag’s schemes. This defense by the end of the year will be good enough for Mahomes to lead us to a Super Bowl.

[BigRedChief]

So much negativity in this board about the defense. How were you guys watching the same game as we were? I’d add to Chiefzilla’s post on why we lost .....HOF QB making HOF throws.

In order....
Mccoy fumble
Butker missed fg
Andy not having balls on 4th down



Dropped passes

Defense

Matt Moore

[NJChiefsFan]

So much negativity in this board about the defense. How were you guys watching the same game as we were? I’d add to Chiefzilla’s post on why we lost .....HOF QB making HOF throws.

The passing stats against the line backers were 11 for 11 for 183 yards. That's not just Rodgers being Rodgers. I'm all for acknowledging what has improved but that part of the d was really bad, and it's not new. So I see it as a reasonable complaint.

[WhiteWhale]

The passing stats against the line backers were 11 for 11 for 183 yards. That's not just Rodgers being Rodgers. I'm all for acknowledging what has improved but that part of the d was really bad, and it's not new. So I see it as a reasonable complaint.

Ugh.

Yanno how many MFers around here told me "Linebackers don't really matter anymore"?

I like how the DL is shaping up as the season moves on. Our DB's are so much better than last year. LB's... still a dumpster fire.

[kysirsoze]

Ugh.

Yanno how many MFers around here told me "Linebackers don't really matter anymore"?

I like how the DL is shaping up as the season moves on. Our DB's are so much better than last year. LB's... still a dumpster fire.

I know our LBs aren't perfect, but they are starting to show up in the pass rush and run d. The latter is still rough but it is an improvement. I'm just wondering if passes in the flats are just a weakness of the scheme that Rodgers exploited. I honestly am not enough of an X's and O's guy to know the answer.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

31

[WhiteWhale]

I know our LBs aren't perfect, but they are starting to show up in the pass rush and run d. The latter is still rough but it is an improvement. I'm just wondering if passes in the flats are just a weakness of the scheme that Rodgers exploited. I honestly am not enough of an X's and O's guy to know the answer.

Dude, they BETTER show up on a goddamn 6 man blitz against a 5 man protection.

Nobody is blocking them and they're blitzing. I'd hope they can avoid totally ****ing that up every time... but they did a few times. One time they blitzed 7 against 6 and the open guy couldn't find a lane. ROFL It was Neiman.

[Megatron96]

Spags had to call a lot of blitz with the issues of health factored in. That leaves RB singled up with LBs. Rodgers eventually exploited it. Against lesser QBs Spags isn't going to have to blitz as often.

And the last two weeks our defense held the opponents to less than their season average rushing. The last time a Chiefs defense was able to do that was probably more than two years ago.

They are tackling much better than two weeks ago. Every damned one of them.

The only real weakness in our defense right now (aside from health) is a lack of true coverage LBs. But after seeing how Spags has developed this defense, I'm pretty sure he'll figure some way to improve their coverage skills.

And I want to give credit to Spags and the defense. In spite of the patch-work DL, he called a great game, and really put some pressure on Aaron Rodgers. And the players really played hard and pretty well.

Once everyone's healthy, this is going to be a pretty good defense. Light-years better than the defense last year.

[WhiteWhale]

Spags had to call a lot of blitz with the issues of health factored in. That leaves RB singled up with LBs. Rodgers eventually exploited it. Against lesser QBs Spags isn't going to have to blitz as often.

And the last two weeks our defense held the opponents to less than their season average rushing. The last time a Chiefs defense was able to do that was probably more than two years ago.

They are tackling much better than two weeks ago. Every damned one of them.

The only real weakness in our defense right now (aside from health) is a lack of true coverage LBs. But after seeing how Spags has developed this defense, I'm pretty sure he'll figure some way to improve their coverage skills.

And I want to give credit to Spags and the defense. In spite of the patch-work DL, he called a great game, and really put some pressure on Aaron Rodgers. And the players really played hard and pretty well.

Once everyone's healthy, this is going to be a pretty good defense. Light-years better than the defense last year.

Statistically blitzing is more effective against lesser QB's...

[Megatron96]

Statistically blitzing is more effective against lesser QB's...

Yes, of course, but against a lesser QB he won't have to sell out the way he did tonight. He can blitz a lesser QB and get similar results using less personnel.

That puts extra guys on the backside and wears out your defense less. You can't blitz every down.

[Rain Man]

I'm a fan of the big blitz plan. As was mentioned in another thread, you only have to disrupt a couple of drives for our offense to outscore them. If you lose on the blitz, it just means we get the ball back with more time to score.

Blitz them with the Afrika Korps of Kpassagnon, Okafor, and Ogbah, and Poland will be ours. Uh, I mean, the Lombardi Trophy will be ours.

[dtrain]

Why not put a faster linebacker in when blitzing like that like Dorian O'Daniel?

[Rain Man]

Why not put a faster linebacker in when blitzing like that like Dorian O'Daniel?

I think O'Daniel has been hurt all year, hasn't he?

I also really like Matthieu on the blitz. He seems to have a good feel for it.

[Naptown Chief]

Blitz them with the Afrika Korps of Kpassagnon, Okafor, and Ogbah, and Poland will be ours. Uh, I mean, the Lombardi Trophy will be ours.

ROFL

[BigRedChief]

Statistically blitzing is more effective against lesser QB's...

Yes, of course, but against a lesser QB he won't have to sell out the way he did tonight. He can blitz a lesser QB and get similar results using less personnel.

That puts extra guys on the backside and wears out your defense less. You can't blitz every down.You have to blitz the great QB's. Sure, its less effective, that's why they are great. But. it still has to be done.

To set back in a zone or a cover 2 against a great QB, you'll get embarrassed. We stopped several drives on blitzes. Got off the field. Made Rodgers make a decision before he was ready to throw the ball. With Mahomes that will be enough.

Yet, the downside is when we blitz the great ones they are going to see the running back/linebacker mismatch quicker and be able to get them the ball. Like the final score.

Our LB's blitzing is the best use of their talents. If its a run, they are plugging gaps, being aggressive, If not, they increase the chance to get to the QB. I think, this year anyway, with what talent we have at LB, its our best choice.

[dtrain]

I think O'Daniel has been hurt all year, hasn't he?

I also really like Matthieu on the blitz. He seems to have a good feel for it.

Put him in to cover a back. He was on the field for special teams.

[Dunerdr]

So much negativity in this board about the defense. How were you guys watching the same game as we were? I’d add to Chiefzilla’s post on why we lost .....HOF QB making HOF throws.

Honestly for as brilliant of a game as Andy called the 4th down is what sealed our fate, Mcoys fumble killed us and so did Butkers miss. We needed perfection to overcome the game GB played and we just came up short on a special teams play, and one fumble that may have kept Andy from making the 4th down decision

I thought the defense did their part really other than wilson/ nieman and hitch getting abused by Jones in the passing game. I would have liked to see an adjustment to that but its really the same thing we were doing to teams a year ago with Pat throwing to Kareem. No one really ever adjusted to that you have to take him serious as a runner with a heavy package and thats going to be a mismatch in the passing game.

[morphius]

My only big problem was that they used the same play against us at least 4 times and we never remotely figured out how to defend it. The LB on their RB just killed us. We figure that play out and we stop a bunch of third down plays and they are punting. They are at least watchable now at least.

[BigRedChief]

:thumb:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Defensive Rankings, 2018 vs 2019<br><br>Clear improvement in most.<br><br>Yds<br>31-24<br><br>Pts<br>24-17<br><br>Yds/P<br>24-15<br><br>Pass TD<br>22-12<br><br>Rush TD<br>29-26<br><br>Net Yds/PassAtt<br>12-8<br><br>Rush YPA<br>31-30<br><br>20+ Rec<br>32-13<br><br>Sacks<br>1-5<br><br>3rd down %<br>25-15<br><br>RZ TD %<br>29-13</p>&mdash; 65 Sent (@ClayWendler) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1189321723096764418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 29, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>