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ChiefRocka
09-30-2019, 05:03 AM
Twice this season already I’ve stood up on the couch and screamed at Reid for gaffes managing the clock. At what point do you just let Pat run the show? You can tell he knows what to do and when.

All my Eagles buddies tell me to just wait until Reid loses you a superbowl because of that shit and your feeling will quickly change about him.

I’m scared, its like Shaq going to foul line in Game 7 and he only has to sink one to tie and two to win...praying for the tie.

farmerchief
09-30-2019, 05:22 AM
Bring Back Dick Curl!?

Otter
09-30-2019, 05:26 AM
All my Eagles buddies tell me to just wait until Reid loses you a superbowl because of that shit and your feeling will quickly change about him.

Both my brothers are Eagles fans and warned me about his shortcomings in the post season. Clock management was a core warning.

Hopefully he's delegating these shortcomings.

At what point did you notice the clock management issues this season?

tyreekthefreak
09-30-2019, 05:28 AM
Reid's clock management is the least of my worries!

jd1020
09-30-2019, 05:42 AM
At what point did you notice the clock management issues this season?

I think it was last week with seconds left in the first half that the Chiefs were near the 20 after a pass that didnt make it out of bounds and Mahomes was running to spike the ball or get a play off as the clock ticked down. The Chiefs had a timeout and didnt use it til like 10 seconds went poof and then used it before the snap with 11 seconds left.

I didnt agree with Mahomes trying to get a play off without using the timeout because if you use it immediately you probably have 2 shots at a TD before having to settle for the FG. Instead Reid chose to waste a whole bunch of time before using it and not only did he use it late and cost himself an opportunity at a TD but he used it with 11 seconds left. So not only did he then have to kick the FG but he also left time on the clock where a FG wouldn't end the half and you have to kick off. Imagine if there was a return for TD. That whole sequence was just brainless.

Mahomes_Is_God
09-30-2019, 05:50 AM
At this point Pat can do whatever he wants. If he feels like the championship is on the line and Andy is doing his best to fuck it up, you can bet your ass Mahomes will put his foot down and call the shots.

-King-
09-30-2019, 05:59 AM
I posted this in the game thread but I feel like yesterday's clock management issue at the end of the first half was on Mahomes and not on Reid. If Mahomes simply clocks the ball, the chiefs save the timeot and they can use the entire field on their next 1 or 2 plays. Instead for some reason Mahomes tried to run a play and we ended up having to kick and went into the half with the timeout.

MahiMike
09-30-2019, 06:17 AM
This again?

RealSNR
09-30-2019, 06:20 AM
That shit at the end of the first half was on Mahomes, not Reid. What the fuck is Reid supposed to do? Put on a jersey, waddle out there, and start reliving his days as a national PPK competitor?

DRM08
09-30-2019, 06:53 AM
I posted this in the game thread but I feel like yesterday's clock management issue at the end of the first half was on Mahomes and not on Reid. If Mahomes simply clocks the ball, the chiefs save the timeot and they can use the entire field on their next 1 or 2 plays. Instead for some reason Mahomes tried to run a play and we ended up having to kick and went into the half with the timeout.

Yep, Mahomes has a lot of room for improvement on clock management. Hopefully that’s something we will see as the years go by.

Prison Bitch
09-30-2019, 06:59 AM
I posted this in the game thread but I feel like yesterday's clock management issue at the end of the first half was on Mahomes and not on Reid. If Mahomes simply clocks the ball, the chiefs save the timeot and they can use the entire field on their next 1 or 2 plays. Instead for some reason Mahomes tried to run a play and we ended up having to kick and went into the half with the timeout.

This ^

unlurking
09-30-2019, 07:02 AM
That shit at the end of the first half was on Mahomes, not Reid. What the fuck is Reid supposed to do? Put on a jersey, waddle out there, and start reliving his days as a national PPK competitor?
Have to agree. I was also yelling at the screen to call a timeout, but I was yelling at Mahomes, not Reid.

Dante84
09-30-2019, 07:04 AM
To be fair, we’ve scored a FG both times. Yes, perhaps it’s an opportunity for another shot or two, but most teams are just trying to get in FG range in those situations. Mahomes has us spoiled.

RunKC
09-30-2019, 07:08 AM
Reid can’t do anything? Is a coach not able to call a timeout?

It was a complete breakdown between Andy and Pat. They both share the blame.

jd1020
09-30-2019, 07:10 AM
To be fair, we’ve scored a FG both times. Yes, perhaps it’s an opportunity for another shot or two, but most teams are just trying to get in FG range in those situations. Mahomes has us spoiled.

Most teams arent a flick of the wrist from scoring a TD either. Settling for a FG in those situations when you could have had multiple shots at a TD could be the difference between going to a SB and being sent home by the Patriots in the playoffs.

It's not being spoiled, it's simply trying to make the most out of your chances.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad
09-30-2019, 07:12 AM
That shit at the end of the first half was on Mahomes, not Reid. What the fuck is Reid supposed to do? Put on a jersey, waddle out there, and start reliving his days as a national PPK competitor?

Exactly right. This offense does not need tempo to be elite, so a spike is perfectly acceptable. It's something Pat was never coached on at Tech (where they coach Tempo over everything), but he needs to know when a spiked ball is appropriate.

dj56dt58
09-30-2019, 07:27 AM
I think it was last week with seconds left in the first half that the Chiefs were near the 20 after a pass that didnt make it out of bounds and Mahomes was running to spike the ball or get a play off as the clock ticked down. The Chiefs had a timeout and didnt use it til like 10 seconds went poof and then used it before the snap with 11 seconds left.

I didnt agree with Mahomes trying to get a play off without using the timeout because if you use it immediately you probably have 2 shots at a TD before having to settle for the FG. Instead Reid chose to waste a whole bunch of time before using it and not only did he use it late and cost himself an opportunity at a TD but he used it with 11 seconds left. So not only did he then have to kick the FG but he also left time on the clock where a FG wouldn't end the half and you have to kick off. Imagine if there was a return for TD. That whole sequence was just brainless.

I didnt understand this either. By the time he called time out the Chiefs were at the line spiking the ball anyway. The only thing I can think of is Reid figured Pat was going to call it and when he didn't he called it himself and the ref didn't see it right away or something like that..

TLO
09-30-2019, 07:33 AM
If anything, it was Mahomes fault for not spiking the ball.

I honestly don't care that much because we got 3 points out of the deal anyway. If there's a situation that arises where we don't get points, then we can talk.

tmax63
09-30-2019, 07:35 AM
And PH and Reid have 12 more games to work on the communication before the playoffs. Like 2 baseball players closing in on a fly ball. Do you call it or do I call it? Those type of errors will be talked about this week. They'll have plenty to talk about this week. And they're STILL 4-0.

Frosty
09-30-2019, 07:45 AM
At the time, I got the impression that they didn't spike it because they were trying to catch the Lions by surprise. It didn't work and the whole thing felt rushed and out of sorts. They are good enough that they don't really need to try to fool anyone. Spike it, get everyone on the same page and do what you do.

-King-
09-30-2019, 07:46 AM
Reid can’t do anything? Is a coach not able to call a timeout?

It was a complete breakdown between Andy and Pat. They both share the blame.

That wasn't the time to call a timeout though. A timeout there would have led us to the same result. If we called the timeout there the Lions would have just dropped everybody back to the endzone and covered the sideline knowing we couldn't stop the clock.

-King-
09-30-2019, 07:46 AM
At the time, I got the impression that they didn't spike it because they were trying to catch the Lions by surprise. It didn't work and the whole thing felt rushed and out of sorts. They are good enough that they don't really need to try to fool anyone. Spike it, get everyone on the same page and do what you do.

This.

RedRaider56
09-30-2019, 07:48 AM
Reid can’t do anything? Is a coach not able to call a timeout?

It was a complete breakdown between Andy and Pat. They both share the blame.

This is something that should be predetermined. If this happens on a certain play, this is what needs to happen next. Call two plays in the huddle, or a play and a spike, or a play and a timeout for this situation.

RealSNR
09-30-2019, 09:35 AM
Also, am I alone on this when I say the clock management stuff with Reid in general doesn't bother me?

He's had nearly 20 years of being a head coach to fix it. He still hasn't. He probably never will. It's just a deficiency of his. Add "clock management" next to "caloric intake management" on a list of his deficiencies. It's always going to be there. He's never going to get it fixed.

But you know what? What if somebody like Brian Flores is the best head coach currently in the NFL at clock management? Well who freaking cares about clock management if your team is never in a position to exercise it? Reid blows another playoff game because of poor clock management? Brian Flores ain't even going to get your team into the playoffs to have a chance to blow it.

Clock management affects game outcomes. Not saying it doesn't. But if a coach is like Reid and never figures it out... I mean, is that really something you want to fire him over? The majority of people would say no, because a coach like Reid can still win a Super Bowl even with bad clock management. Brian Flores ain't gonna win a Super Bowl any time soon even if he's a great manager of the clock.

Halfcan
09-30-2019, 09:38 AM
I think it was last week with seconds left in the first half that the Chiefs were near the 20 after a pass that didnt make it out of bounds and Mahomes was running to spike the ball or get a play off as the clock ticked down. The Chiefs had a timeout and didnt use it til like 10 seconds went poof and then used it before the snap with 11 seconds left.

I didnt agree with Mahomes trying to get a play off without using the timeout because if you use it immediately you probably have 2 shots at a TD before having to settle for the FG. Instead Reid chose to waste a whole bunch of time before using it and not only did he use it late and cost himself an opportunity at a TD but he used it with 11 seconds left. So not only did he then have to kick the FG but he also left time on the clock where a FG wouldn't end the half and you have to kick off. Imagine if there was a return for TD. That whole sequence was just brainless.

Yep, two weeks in a row- Andy has mismanaged the clock.

Big Red needs to clean this shit up and start putting his Offense out there first instead of our shitty defense that lets the team use up the entire first quarter.

WhiteWhale
09-30-2019, 09:40 AM
A coach with bad clock management is a far bigger issue when you don't have a good QB.

KC is fine with Mahomes.

KChiefs1
09-30-2019, 01:02 PM
Have to agree. I was also yelling at the screen to call a timeout, but I was yelling at Mahomes, not Reid.



Scared everyone in the house because I was yelling so loud. I was mad through the entire halftime.

threebag
09-30-2019, 01:05 PM
Bring Back Dick Curl!?

Dick Curl was missing Dusty Bonner

Skyy God
09-30-2019, 01:07 PM
I'm more worried about Andy's cholesterol.

DJ's left nut
09-30-2019, 01:24 PM
This is just such a horseshit, backward facing narrative.

In both instances Reid did EXACTLY the right thing. You don't just immediately take a timeout there because now you're sitting 20+ yards away from the end zone at about 18 seconds left and with no timeouts. Your odds of actually putting the ball in the end zone there are damn small. And now your risk, with no TO in your pocket, is that you take 3 points off the board.

Meanwhile, you can do exactly what Reid did both times - give your offense an opportunity to get its ass up there on the line, get a play off and maybe make something happen. If it goes wrong, you still have the TO. But with only 1 timeout and already in FG range, you don't just go burning that thing because you can. Not to save 7 seconds when you've seen your pocket getting pushed around the whole game.

Both times Reid did a thing that kept points safely on the board and wasn't willing to risk those for a minuscule chance at getting a 7 instead. AND, in both cases he gave his offense an opportunity to get up there and make a play. He was cautiously and intelligently aggressive.

If there's a complaint, it's that maybe the Chiefs need to do more to get out there and practice the 1 minute drills. They don't seem to do a great job of scrambling to the line with a 2nd play already 'loaded' and ready to run. They're not quite as smooth there as you'd like.

But that's not a clock management issue and nothing Reid did in the last 2 weeks was wrong. The desperate desire to listen to fucking Eagles fans and convince ourselves that Reid has this fatal flaw is just asinine.

htismaqe
09-30-2019, 01:24 PM
That clock management was 100% on Mahomes. It's obvious that Andy gave him control over the 2-minute offense. Pat was the one hustling to the line and when the timeout did get called, it was Mahomes that called it.

Get over it.

Beef Supreme
09-30-2019, 01:28 PM
It's right twice a day.

DJ's left nut
09-30-2019, 01:31 PM
Also, am I alone on this when I say the clock management stuff with Reid in general doesn't bother me?

He's had nearly 20 years of being a head coach to fix it. He still hasn't. He probably never will. It's just a deficiency of his. Add "clock management" next to "caloric intake management" on a list of his deficiencies. It's always going to be there. He's never going to get it fixed.

But you know what? What if somebody like Brian Flores is the best head coach currently in the NFL at clock management? Well who freaking cares about clock management if your team is never in a position to exercise it? Reid blows another playoff game because of poor clock management? Brian Flores ain't even going to get your team into the playoffs to have a chance to blow it.

Clock management affects game outcomes. Not saying it doesn't. But if a coach is like Reid and never figures it out... I mean, is that really something you want to fire him over? The majority of people would say no, because a coach like Reid can still win a Super Bowl even with bad clock management. Brian Flores ain't gonna win a Super Bowl any time soon even if he's a great manager of the clock.

It doesn't bother me because it's overblown.

It's shoehorned in when he makes a wholly defensible decision. I mean the guy's taking shit because he tried to let Mahomes get a play off against the Ravens. If Mahomes gets that play off at say 14 seconds and can get a 15 yard completion OOB, now you have Mahomes with a timeout at, what, the 12 yard line? The whole playbook is open on that final shot at the end zone. he doesn't have to just throw a fade route or a quick out because he knows that if the guys tackled inbounds or he gets sacked, the TO is still there.

It's a completely defensible decision to handle it exactly like Reid did. Is there an argument to take the TO at 19 seconds and trust your QB to throw it away or your WRs to get out of bounds if things go sideways? Sure - but it's not a slam dunk by any stretch. And in the process he has limited the plays he can run because he has to recognize the possibility of a play getting stopped inbounds.

If there's a completely rational justification for a decision, then it's not 'poor clock management' - it's just a disagreement. Now I will acknowledge that not letting it tick down to 3 seconds once he had to take the TO at 10 was iffy, but I'm also not sure he was completely certain he wasn't going to take one hail mary shot at the goalline before deciding against it. Let that run down to 3 seconds and that's gone as well (as is a spike in the occasion of a bad snap or hold or whatever).

The clock management was fine. It's almost always fine. Chiefs fans for some weird ass reason want to jump on board with a narrative crafted by one of the dumbest fanbases in pro sports.

DJ's left nut
09-30-2019, 01:34 PM
That clock management was 100% on Mahomes. It's obvious that Andy gave him control over the 2-minute offense. Pat was the one hustling to the line and when the timeout did get called, it was Mahomes that called it.

Get over it.

Guy gives his offense a chance to go to out there, get aligned and take a shot while protecting them from a bad play by saving the timeout and suddenly it's Reid's fault that the offense didn't get set.

I think Reid called the timeout last week because, as you noted, Mahomes has the keys in that situation. But when Reid so things going sideways, he correctly took the wheel.

People just making the argument they wanted to make in the first place, regardless of what's actually happening and why.

MightyMouse
09-30-2019, 01:40 PM
The clock management is not on Mahomes. Maybe the first time because you use it as a teaching point but the second time it’s the coaches fault. Reid should be giving Mahomes the spike it call. The downs aren’t your problem it’s the clock. Reid hates spiking it, he prefers to hurry and snap it because he doesn’t want to let the defense to get set up but our offense isn’t prepared either. It’s been a problem of Andy’s forever and people still don’t think he is at fault. :spock:

jd1020
09-30-2019, 01:44 PM
In both instances Reid did EXACTLY the right thing. You don't just immediately take a timeout there because now you're sitting 20+ yards away from the end zone at about 18 seconds left and with no timeouts. Your odds of actually putting the ball in the end zone there are damn small. And now your risk, with no TO in your pocket, is that you take 3 points off the board.

I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on theres a risk of taking 3 points of the board by running an offense with no timeouts from the 20 with around 20 seconds left. Even if you go short and the ball doesnt make it out of bounds the play probably take 4 seconds at most and there fucking 15+ seconds to get lined up and spike the ball and only leave enough time on the clock to not have to kick off following the FG.

On the other hand theres probably a very high chance that the play does get out of bounds because in those situations the defense is playing not to give up 7. You see the Patriots pick teams apart in those situations all the time.

TinyEvel
09-30-2019, 02:13 PM
No fatal flaw now that we have Mahomes. He makes up for so many things.

but I've noticed this for years--it's especially right before halftime. It always seems to be right before halftime. When we had Smith under center, it made it worse, as he couldn't chuck it downfield or make the kind of plays PM2 does. So at the end of games it got bad, too.


i'm a little puzzled that at the end of the games this season, its seemed we are still an opponents hail Mary or recovered onsides kick away from being tied or losing. Still defensive woes that keep the opponents in the game. Maybe they are taking bigger chances against us and getting lucky like baltimore, but dang.

DJ's left nut
09-30-2019, 03:03 PM
I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on theres a risk of taking 3 points of the board by running an offense with no timeouts from the 20 with around 20 seconds left. Even if you go short and the ball doesnt make it out of bounds the play probably take 4 seconds at most and there fucking 15+ seconds to get lined up and spike the ball and only leave enough time on the clock to not have to kick off following the FG.

On the other hand theres probably a very high chance that the play does get out of bounds because in those situations the defense is playing not to give up 7. You see the Patriots pick teams apart in those situations all the time.

You're correct on the 1st play - but my point is that you're far enough away that any shot at the end zone is coming on a single play, no? You'll get one crack at it and if that doesn't work, you're kicking, because now you're down to 14 seconds or so and have zero timeouts. Now you can't run the play; if that ball gets caught at the 4 (after running 5-6 seconds off the clock for the play itself) and the guy's tackled inbounds, you're boned; you won't get that clocked.

So if you take the timeout immediately at 20 seconds, that's the scenario you've painted for yourself. Instead Andy elected to let them try to hustle to the line and get a play off and keep the timeout. Now the whole playbook is there and you may get that off in time to still be able to run another play at/near the 10 or so yard line.

He took the MORE aggressive posture by trying to let Mahomes get up and run a play. I love that. He put his trust in his offense and their execution to try to milk one more play out of that exchange while knowing he has that timeout in his pocket if it doesn't go to script.

It didn't, so he used it and he kicked. What he did was put trust in his young QB and offense to get up there and get something done. When it didn't work, he called the TO. I'd want him to do that 100 times out of 100. If he just immediately calls the timeout, his odds of getting a touchdown aren't significantly improved for the reasons I outlined above. But they're significantly diminished from where they'd be if Mahomes could've rushed up there, gotten everyone lined up and gotten a play off.

It's not bad clock management - it was simply more aggressive and eminently defensible clock management.

But because "Andy Reid: Bad Clock Manager" has become a think due to shitty Eagles fans, the immediate rush is to say it was bad. No it wasn't - it was aggressive and it actually provided the highest ceiling on that exchange and in the end it yielded was was almost certainly going to be the outcome anyway. The odds of a TD there were extremely long and the only way to appreciably improve them was a quick snap/strike that gets you in close enough to use the whole playbook with a timeout in your pocket. It didn't happen, the TO got called and the FG was kicked.

To my eyes that was damn near textbook by Andy. The only complaint is that he didn't take it down to about 4 seconds once the gig was up, but I think if he doesn't, Mahomes snaps the ball on him so he took the timeout seeing that things were getting sideways on Pat.

ThyKingdomCome15
09-30-2019, 03:28 PM
Why yes, you do let Pat run the show. Smart thinking.

tmax63
09-30-2019, 04:37 PM
On the other hand theres probably a very high chance that the play does get out of bounds because in those situations the defense is playing not to give up 7. You see the Patriots pick teams apart in those situations all the time.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. All defenses are going to protect against the outs and the end zone to prevent a TD and keep the clock moving.