The Chiefs are giving up 5.9 yards/carry.

[Direckshun]

Worst in the league, by half a yard.

Thoughts.

[kcxiv]

its frustrating they will have a couple of awesome drives where you are like, ok, maybe they are geting it. Then the next drive completely shit the bed!

[Mecca]

Worst in the league, by half a yard.

Thoughts.

Until something changes....namely Chris Jones deciding he has a desire to keep his gap or him not playing in run downs I'm not sure what can be done to change it.

The rest of the line defends the run pretty solidly, wide runs get handled, his gap though, watch him, on runs he tries pass rush moves comes right out of his gap and we have a guard on a LB and it's a 7 yard run.

[ping2000]

Run stopping is attitude. They play like pussies. Man up and tackle.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

It’s not good.

[rabblerouser]

Until something changes....namely Chris Jones deciding he has a desire to keep his gap or him not playing in run downs I'm not sure what can be done to change it.

The rest of the line defends the run pretty solidly, wide runs get handled, his gap though, watch him, on runs he tries pass rush moves comes right out of his gap and we have a guard on a LB and it's a 7 yard run.
And he wants Aaron Donald money...

[carcosa]

We will be fine

[Marcellus]

You aren't going to win most games running the ball. This was proven yesterday.

[Lzen]

Until something changes....namely Chris Jones deciding he has a desire to keep his gap or him not playing in run downs I'm not sure what can be done to change it.

The rest of the line defends the run pretty solidly, wide runs get handled, his gap though, watch him, on runs he tries pass rush moves comes right out of his gap and we have a guard on a LB and it's a 7 yard run.

It's not just Jones. I think Xavier Williams is pretty much worthless at this point. Our LBers are out of position half the time and don't fill their gaps. Also, Detroit got away with a lot of holding on running plays yesterday. Our defenders have to learn to be a little more dramatic to show the holding so that more penalties get called.

[In58men]

You aren't going to win most games running the ball. This was proven yesterday.

You can easily beat us by keeping Pat off the field.

Giving up 5.9 ypc can take a ton of time off. It’s definitely not good.

[Deberg_1990]

Bellichek wil run it down our throats until we prove we can stop it. 50 times a game if he has to. Anything to keep Mahomes off the field and limit his possessions.

[kgrund]

The most distressing part of this is that Veach focused on this from the time he became GM. He talked about getting tougher and stopping the run. Brought is new linebackers (since 2017), drafted a DL known as the best run stuffer in college football (Nnadi), signed two DEs known to be stout against the run (Clark and Okafor), brought in new coaches, and signed a safety known to be a great run defender. Yet, somehow, someway this defense cannot stop the run. Bewildering we can not get this fixed to say the least.

[rabblerouser]

You aren't going to win most games running the ball. This was proven yesterday.

But the Patriots can win the AFC Championship Game doing that - they proved that last January...

[smithandrew051]

The offense needs to start faster to put more pressure on the opposing team to abandon their gameplan. We went how long without being held scoreless in the firs quarter? And now we’ve been held scoreless in the first quarter in 3 straight games.

[Wallcrawler]

To beat the Chiefs, your beat shot is Marty ball. However, if your defense screws up ONE time, Mahomes has beaten you, and you've screwed yourself out of any time to try to come back because you ran the clock out with all the rushing.

If the offense can clean up these slow starts, the run wouldn't be an issue.

[Marcellus]

But the Patriots can win the AFC Championship Game doing that - they proved that last January...

A lie that constantly gets repeated.

That's not what beat us, what beat us was 3 consecutive 3rd and ten passing conversions on the final drive.

[RunKC]

But the Patriots can win the AFC Championship Game doing that - they proved that last January...

.

[smithandrew051]

The most distressing part of this is that Veach focused on this from the time he became GM. He talked about getting tougher and stopping the run. Brought is new linebackers (since 2017), drafted a DL known as the best run stuffer in college football (Nnadi), signed two DEs known to be stout against the run (Clark and Okafor), brought in new coaches, and signed a safety known to be a great run defender. Yet, somehow, someway this defense cannot stop the run. Bewildering we can not get this fixed to say the least.

I think it’s more on the linebackers.

I refuse to believe that Nnadi, Okafor, Jones, and Clark aren’t at least a competent run stopping DL.

I wouldn’t mind at all if we moved up in the first round to grab the best ILB in the draft. Grabbing the next big time ILB could change things dramatically.

[kcclone]

You aren't going to win most games running the ball. This was proven yesterday.


Yesterday we proved we could still beat the (likely) 3rd/4th place NFC North team even when they rushed the ball.

Also, we got extremely lucky with the 99 yard no whistle fumble return. You never catch those types of breaks against New England

[smithandrew051]

A lie that constantly gets repeated.

That's not what beat us, what beat us was 3 consecutive 3rd and ten passing conversions on the final drive.

And that our offense did nothing in the first half.

[Mecca]

It's not just Jones. I think Xavier Williams is pretty much worthless at this point. Our LBers are out of position half the time and don't fill their gaps. Also, Detroit got away with a lot of holding on running plays yesterday. Our defenders have to learn to be a little more dramatic to show the holding so that more penalties get called.

Those DT's need to be more physical in the run game. Jones is capable of doing it and he chooses not to a lot of times. Williams is a ball of meh and Saunders just isn't ready, sad to say they need to sign Ivie back at least he showed a willingness to defend the run.

Yesterdays game was a ref crew that let a ton go, the Detroit DB's were physically manhandling receivers, most days those are penalties.

[bricks]

You aren't going to win most games running the ball. This was proven yesterday.

For the most part, I agree with you.

But, it can be used against us. Teams will run all over us to control and dictate the tempo of the game in their favour. More importantly, keep our greatest strength Mahomes off the field. And if you’re facing a really good team like the Pats that know how to scheme well against great offenses as we’ve seen Belicheck do over the last 20 years, that doesn’t bode well for us.

[O.city]

Considering who they'll have to beat in the playoffs, it could end up being a pretty fatal flaw.

[Marcellus]

And that our offense did nothing in the first half.

True.

I guess my point is run defense wasn't good last year but we won 12 games and were a pre snap penalty , a dropped INT, and or a 3rd down passing stop from going to the SB.

I cant think of a game we lost simply because we couldn't stop the run. It wasn't against NE either time, it wasn't against the Rams, and it wasn't against the Chargers.

[Mecca]

For the most part, I agree with you.

But, it can be used against us. Teams will run all over us to control and dictate the tempo of the game in their favour. More importantly, keep our greatest strength Mahomes off the field. And if you’re facing a really good team like the Pats that know how to scheme well against great offenses as we’ve seen Belicheck do over the last 20 years, that doesn’t bode well for us.

The run game isn't what made it close, Stafford played lights out, making perfect throws and the offense was just off with several turnovers.

[Marcellus]

Considering who they'll have to beat in the playoffs, it could end up being a pretty fatal flaw.

Pass defense not getting off the field on 3rd and long is a much bigger issue. How many times we see that yesterday? (Just like the AFCCG)

[bricks]

I think it’s more on the linebackers.

I refuse to believe that Nnadi, Okafor, Jones, and Clark aren’t at least a competent run stopping DL.

I wouldn’t mind at all if we moved up in the first round to grab the best ILB in the draft. Grabbing the next big time ILB could change things dramatically.

I was advocating for the Chiefs to trade up in this years draft to try to get Devin White. Many people didn’t think it was necessary.

[O.city]

Pass defense not getting off the field on 3rd and long is a much bigger issue. How many times we see that yesterday? (Just like the AFCCG)

Lions were 5-13 on 3rd down. So it wasn't really a big problem yesterday

[Mecca]

Pass defense not getting off the field on 3rd and long is a much bigger issue. How many times we see that yesterday? (Just like the AFCCG)

I think Breeland has been pretty good, but Ward can have good coverage and still not do shit because he never fucking turns around.

I dunno if Claiborne is the answer but as long as Ward doesn't understand to look for the ball he's going to keep getting beat even when he has good coverage.

[bricks]

The run game isn't what made it close, Stafford played lights out, making perfect throws and the offense was just off with several turnovers.

I think us not stopping the run definately contributed to making this game close. I don’t understand why you would exclude that out of the equation?

[Fat Elvis]

Pass defense not getting off the field on 3rd and long is a much bigger issue. How many times we see that yesterday? (Just like the AFCCG)

Detroit only converted on 38% of their third downs yesterday.

[FloridaMan88]

The Chiefs defense is like a shitty/flawed house for which the Chiefs did a complete tear down and total rebuild ... only to build a new house with the exact same problems.

[Mecca]

The Chiefs defense is like a shitty/flawed house for which the Chiefs did a complete tear down and total rebuild ... only to build a new house with the exact same problems.

It also takes time when you have a new scheme with a ton of new guys, so that factors into this also.

[Andoverer]

The Rams let Tampa Bay lay 55 points on them yesterday and they have Aaron Donald and, much coveted by many around here, Marcus Peters.

If we had done that, everyone around here would be running around like their hair was on fire.

Sure the Chiefs' D looks painfully similar to last year's defense, but we're not playing against slouches. Matt Stafford was giving tremendous effort at their house and we still won.

[WhiteWhale]

The Chiefs defense is like a shitty/flawed house for which the Chiefs did a complete tear down and total rebuild ... only to build a new house with the exact same problems.

What did you expect?

Honestly if you looked at this D roster and thought this was going to be a defense in the top half of the NFL I dunno what to tell you.

I was ridiculed for pointing this out over and over, but it IS what it IS.

[Hammock Parties]

We don't have an enforcer on run defense.

Thornhill and Honey Badger are coverage guys.

Linebackers are smallish.

It is what it is. They are built to stop the pass.

[O.city]

As much as everyone loves the Ramsey idea, which I do to, the more prudent move might be to see if the Bengals would trade you Geno Atkins for a 3rd.

[RealSNR]

Question: Is Derrick Nnadi good?

I still don't quite know. That's why I'm asking. Like, he's a starter. That's good, I suppose. Then again, so was Ryan Sims once upon a time.

He's still young. Is he just kinda doing his job and not much else? Is he not holding up at the point of attack? Is he messing up a gap responsibility on occasion? Is he really really super good and I'm just an idiot for not being able recognize greatness?

Could he also be a small part of why our run defense gets gashed the way it does? Maybe not the main reason why, but still definitely not part of the solution?

[RunKC]

Question: Is Derrick Nnadi good?

I still don't quite know. That's why I'm asking. Like, he's a starter. That's good, I suppose. Then again, so was Ryan Sims once upon a time.

He's still young. Is he just kinda doing his job and not much else? Is he not holding up at the point of attack? Is he messing up a gap responsibility on occasion? Is he really really super good and I'm just an idiot for not being able recognize greatness?

Could he also be a small part of why our run defense gets gashed the way it does? Maybe not the main reason why, but still definitely not part of the solution?

He is the only good run defending DT on the roster. The problem seems to occur when he’s off the field and Jones/Williams are ****ing up.

[O.city]

With it being as bad as it is, I think everyone bears a little brunt.

But as we see when they do make a stop, it's that everyone does their job. Run d seems to be so much of a team effort and when one piston doesn't fire, the car is fucked.

[Mecca]

The fucked part of this is run stopping DTs are generally very cheap and come easy in FA.

[O.city]

The ****ed part of this is run stopping DTs are generally very cheap and come easy in FA.

That's what Xavier Williams was supposed to be. He's not.

I think it's more about the unit as a whole, makes certain guys look good elsewhere on good units, they go to shitty ones and suck.

[BlackHelicopters]

We got this.

[Marcellus]

Detroit only converted on 38% of their third downs yesterday.

Maybe narrowing it down to 3rd down was wrong but here is a good summary of our issues. 5 pass plays 19 yards or more and a lot of passes given up intermediate. I think the pass defense is more of a concern. :shrug:

Yes we gave up some chunk yards in the running game but the big plays in the passing game oare what scored points.

33 Yard Pass
(14:26) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep middle to K.Golladay to KC 37 for 33 yards (J.Thornhill).
2nd & 5 at DET 30

19 Yard Pass
(11:56) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep right to M.Jones to KC 7 for 19 yards (T.Mathieu).
1st & 10 at KC 26


33 Yard Pass
(4:39) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep middle to M.Jones to KC 11 for 33 yards (B.Breeland).
3rd & 9 at KC 44

Touchdown Lions
(3:10) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short right to T.Hockenson for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3rd & 4 at KC 5

22 Yard Pass
(9:08) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short middle to K.Johnson to DET 47 for 22 yards (K.Fuller).
1st & 10 at DET 25


Touchdown Lions
(1:14) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short middle to K.Golladay for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3rd & Goal at KC 9


11 Yard Pass
(6:03) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to J.McKissic to DET 29 for 11 yards (B.Breeland).
2nd & 13 at DET 18
6 Yard Pass
(5:16) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to K.Golladay pushed ob at DET 35 for 6 yards (C.Ward). KC-D.Wilson was injured during the play.
3rd & 2 at DET 29

34 Yard Pass
(3:19) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep left to M.Hall pushed ob at KC 9 for 34 yards (C.Ward).
2nd & 4 at KC 43


Touchdown Lions
(2:31) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to K.Golladay for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Official reviewed the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands.
2nd & Goal at KC 6

[dlphg9]

It's because Frank Clark can't do a fucking thing. Also we did not lose the AFC championship because we couldn't stop the run, we held them to 3.7 ypc and the longest run was 14 yards. They couldn't stop the pass or hold them on 4th down.

Also anyone acting like Chris Jones is the reason for anything bad, you are fucking idiots. Chris Jones took over that game. That stupid fucking Frank Clark that you all like to make shit up about is the liability for everything. Fuckin idiots.

[FloridaMan88]

What did you expect?

Honestly if you looked at this D roster and thought this was going to be a defense in the top half of the NFL I dunno what to tell you.

I was ridiculed for pointing this out over and over, but it IS what it IS.

I was hoping for a defense that played more complimentary to the team's strength (Mahomes/the offense) by getting off the field.

The bend don't break shit is the worst possible strategy because it plays right into what opposing teams want to do which is keep Mahomes off the field.

[Mecca]

It's because Frank Clark can't do a fucking thing. Also we did not lose the AFC championship because we couldn't stop the run, we held them to 3.7 ypc and the longest run was 14 yards. They couldn't stop the pass or hold them on 4th down.

Also anyone acting like Chris Jones is the reason for anything bad, you are fucking idiots. Chris Jones took over that game. That stupid fucking Frank Clark that you all like to make shit up about is the liability for everything. Fuckin idiots.

Yea all those times Chris Jones completely leaves his gap open so the guard ends up 5 yards downfield, has nothing to do with why we get gashed in the middle.

[InChiefsHeaven]

We need Balldinger to break down our defenses run stopping woes...Just so we can understand what the hell is going on...

[smithandrew051]

If the offense starts fast, we are fine.

The only loss I can think of with Mahomes and the offense starting fast was against LAC last year, but that was a very fluky game.

Chiefs vs Rams: started down 13-0
Chiefs vs Patriots (1): started down 24-9
Chiefs vs Seahawks: we were down almost the entire game and only scored 10 first half points
Chiefs vs Patriots (2): ended the first half down 14-0

I don’t want to blame the offense too much, but that’s our strength. They can’t start slow in big games. We just aren’t good enough on defense to be able to do that.

[wheeler08]

I seen yesterday they pulled Jones and Clark out a lot on 1st and 2nd down. Maybe they are seeing Jones isn’t worth a shit at run D. Then they would run in on 3rd down

[rabblerouser]

Yea all those times Chris Jones completely leaves his gap open so the guard ends up 5 yards downfield, has nothing to do with why we get gashed in the middle.

dlphg9 dipshit9 is a ****ing moron, it's not surprising to me that he doesn't know anything about football. He's one of like 3 people I still have on ignore, and I cannot forsee a reason to ever take him off ognore, simply because nothing he posts is worth reading, ever.

[dlphg9]

Yea all those times Chris Jones completely leaves his gap open so the guard ends up 5 yards downfield, has nothing to do with why we get gashed in the middle.

And all those times Frank Clark is slow as can be getting off the ball and gets completely owned by the tackle helps nothing. I saw Chris Jones make plays in the run game and pass game. He was legit being double teamed while Franks slap fighting with the tackle or doing the slowest spin move I've ever seen. Also running doesn't matter. We didn't about lose because we couldn't stop the run. We almost lost cuz we fumbled 30 million times and Matt Stafford carved us up.

[dlphg9]

I seen yesterday they pulled Jones and Clark out a lot on 1st and 2nd down. Maybe they are seeing Jones isn’t worth a shit at run D. Then they would run in on 3rd down

I'd much rather have a guy that can get the QB over a guy that can stop the run. I'd much rather have a pass rusher or run stopper over Frank Clark.

[dlphg9]

dlphg9 dipshit9 is a ****ing moron, it's not surprising to me that he doesn't know anything about football. He's one of like 3 people I still have on ignore, and I cannot forsee a reason to ever take him off ognore, simply because nothing he posts is worth reading, ever.

I'm so upset that the guy who lies about going to Tyreek Hills Halloween party and probably numerous other things to feel cool has me on ignore.

[carlos3652]

So, they lowered their average from last week.

Awesome. Headed in the right direction.

We are currently 18th in passing yards per game and 28th in rushing yards per game and 17th in points allowed.

After playing 3 road games and playing against the best offense in the NFL
All the teams we have played against have .500 or better records (meaning they are a combined 8-3-1 against the rest of the teams they played.

How are we not happy with these results..

[O.city]

Get the run d to 18th and we're good.

You don't have to be good vs the run, just don't suck ass.

[BlackOp]

I think us not stopping the run definately contributed to making this game close. I don’t understand why you would exclude that out of the equation?

Losing 3 fumbles in Detroit territory is an effective way to keep the game close too...even if the Lions screwed it up...it took time/possessions off the board.

Chiefs played the worst game of the PMII era...and still won.

There is a reason teams never go 16-0...games like this happen. It was a weird week for almost every top team. NE would have lost if they didn't have a blocked punt for a TD...

Chiefs run defense will become an issue if they repeatedly turn over the ball and Mahomes if "off".

They haven't played with Hill yet...WRs are suddenly going to become more open in a few weeks.

Detroit beat the Eagles in Philly...and the Chargers. They are a decent team this year...

[RunKC]

Get the run d to 18th and we're good.

You don't have to be good vs the run, just don't suck ass.

That’s the problem. We’ve given up almost 400 yards rushing the last 2 weeks. We suck stopping the run. To my knowledge we are the worst in the league at it.

I am seriously getting so sick of Chris Jones shit. Xavier Williams just sucks, but Jones is being selfish.

I’m at the point where I hope Daley only puts Chris Jones on the field in obvious passing downs.

Send a ****ing message to this guy bc this shit is totally fixable.

[smithandrew051]

Losing 3 fumbles in Detroit territory is an effective way to keep the game close too...

Chiefs played to worst game of the PMII era...and still won.

There is a reason teams never go 16-0...games like this happen. It was a weird week for almost every top team. NE would have lost if they didn't have a blocked punt for a TD...

Chiefs run defense will become an issue if they repeatedly turn over the ball and Mahomes if "off".

They haven't played with Hill yet...WRs are suddenly going to become more open in a few weeks.

Playing without Hill has been a blessing in disguise. Hardman and Robinson have gotten chances to be the number 2 receiver and see what it’s like to have teams put their better corners on them. Those two will be able to take that experience and really thrive against teams’ 3rd and 4th corners the rest of the year.

[O.city]

That’s the problem. We’ve given up almost 400 yards rushing the last 2 weeks. We suck stopping the run. To my knowledge we are the worst in the league at it.

I am seriously getting so sick of Chris Jones shit. Xavier Williams just sucks, but Jones is being selfish.

I’m at the point where I hope Daley only puts Chris Jones on the field in obvious passing downs.

Send a ****ing message to this guy bc this shit is totally fixable.

They're not two gapping to my knowledge, so as long as he's getting thru his gap, it's not really his issue I don't think.

I don't really know what to say or why it sucks so bad, but it's 2 straight offseasons we've heard about how they're "fixing the run d" and it's fucking awful.

[carlos3652]

That’s the problem. We’ve given up almost 400 yards rushing the last 2 weeks. We suck stopping the run. To my knowledge we are the worst in the league at it.

I am seriously getting so sick of Chris Jones shit. Xavier Williams just sucks, but Jones is being selfish.

I’m at the point where I hope Daley only puts Chris Jones on the field in obvious passing downs.

Send a ****ing message to this guy bc this shit is totally fixable.

Well. We faced the number 1 team in the league in rushing... so yea. We took a hit. We are not the worst in the league at it. Other teams have allowed more rushing per game.

[smithandrew051]

That’s the problem. We’ve given up almost 400 yards rushing the last 2 weeks. We suck stopping the run. To my knowledge we are the worst in the league at it.

I am seriously getting so sick of Chris Jones shit. Xavier Williams just sucks, but Jones is being selfish.

I’m at the point where I hope Daley only puts Chris Jones on the field in obvious passing downs.

Send a ****ing message to this guy bc this shit is totally fixable.

Xavier Williams is terrible. Really wish we would’ve flipped him for a late round pick in the offseason.

[SuperBowl4]

Bring back Bob Sutton?

[RunKC]

They're not two gapping to my knowledge, so as long as he's getting thru his gap, it's not really his issue I don't think.

I don't really know what to say or why it sucks so bad, but it's 2 straight offseasons we've heard about how they're "fixing the run d" and it's ****ing awful.

Xavier Williams is getting blocked out of his gap opening a huge hole and Chris Jones is leaving his gap trying to pass rush.

That’s the problem.

Cut Xavier Williams and go sign Domata Peko. We need a big body in the middle to stuff the run.

[rabblerouser]

A lie that constantly gets repeated.

That's not what beat us, what beat us was 3 consecutive 3rd and ten passing conversions on the final drive.

They ran the ball on us at fucking will, all the way down to their last touchdown in overtime.

Maybe you forgot about that...

3 plays didnt lose us the game. We got shut out the ENTIRE FIRST HALF because they DOMINATED the line of scrimmage...by running the ball down our throats.

[O.city]

Rewatching yesterday, it looked like there were a lot of just poor run fits. It may be something of just needing more time, hell I dunno

[tmax63]

If it helps any the Chiefs gave up 66 yards to Fournette in week 1 and Denver gave up 225 yards to him yesterday.

[rabblerouser]

Bring back Bob Sutton?

Bob Sutton was never the problem.

Bob Sutton was also never the solution.

It's an attitude thing. This defense still needs to have the attitude that they won't get ran on. They need to be more disciplined - guys are leaving their gaps to freelance for sacks, which leaves giant holes in gaps and in cutback lanes. Chris Jones does this at least once every defensive series, but he's not the only offender...only the most egregious.

[BWillie]

If there is anything that is overrated - it's run defense. It's important but when people say it all starts with stopping the run. No, no it doesn't. Running the ball is at best 25% as effective as throwing the ball.

[rabblerouser]

If it helps any the Chiefs gave up 66 yards to Fournette in week 1 and Denver gave up 225 yards to him yesterday.

Denver is an absolute AIDS-filled dumpster fire with antifreeze on top.

That Von Miller roughing call was just beautiful...fuck Donk Forever.

Forever.

[tmax63]

It made me smile as well.

[Direckshun]

I agree with most folks on this board that say run defense is overrated.

But.... not at 5.9 yards/carry. That is not an unimportant weakness. It's our Achilles, and it will be why we fall to the Pats in the AFCCG two straight years.

[Simply Red]

I agree with most folks on this board that say run defense is overrated.

But.... not at 5.9 yards/carry. That is not an unimportant weakness. It's our Achilles, and it will be why we fall to the Pats in the AFCCG two straight years.

thank you - very insightful! You seem nice.

[comochiefsfan]

Are we sure that Brett Veach is a good GM?

The Mathieu and Clark signings are looking worse by the week.

Hardman has flashed some potential but it seems clear that Thornhill was wildly overrated in camp.

His 2018 draft class has been an abortion so far.

I’m a little concerned about the talent well drying up when our current group of skill players start to phase out. You can win with a QB on a big deal, but you have to draft well in order to do so. Look at Green Bay for example. Right now, I’m not sure I have the confidence in Brett Veach to be able to keep finding us talent in the draft.

[Direckshun]

The 2018 class is hot garbage, and the FA signings were garbage too, other than Sammy.

The 2019 class is looking pretty good. Clark and Mathieu are not worth 180m combined, but they're both making plays for us and are valuable contributors.

The 2019 draft class -- it's way too early to weigh in. I refuse to.

[Mecca]

Are we sure that Brett Veach is a good GM?

The Mathieu and Clark signings are looking worse by the week.

Hardman has flashed some potential but it seems clear that Thornhill was wildly overrated in camp.

His 2018 draft class has been an abortion so far.

I’m a little concerned about the talent well drying up when our current group of skill players start to phase out. You can win with a QB on a big deal, but you have to draft well in order to do so. Look at Green Bay for example. Right now, I’m not sure I have the confidence in Brett Veach to be able to keep finding us talent in the draft.

If guys look good then they come here and don't......that isn't a GM problem that is a coach problem.

Also judging second round picks 4 games into their career is very harsh, it's going to take Thornhill time to be the player he needs to become.

Where I'll knock him right now is run stuffing DT's and 4-3 LB's are supposed to be super easy to find, you should be able to find them late in drafts, UDFA and in free agency they are usually cheap.

[kgrund]

If there is anything that is overrated - it's run defense. It's important but when people say it all starts with stopping the run. No, no it doesn't. Running the ball is at best 25% as effective as throwing the ball.

I do not agree with this at all. To many teams, in today's NFL, this might be true. However, it is well established that the best chance of beating us on a typical day is keeping Mahomes off the field. Nothing helps accomplish this better than a run game. If we can force teams to rely on their passing game, we at the very least, will force teams to score faster. Scoring faster means more offensive possessions for us. The more possessions we have the greater our chances of winning IMO. Absent a historically inept defense like last year, we will win almost all shoot outs with Mahomes.

[comochiefsfan]

If guys look good then they come here and don't......that isn't a GM problem that is a coach problem.

Also judging second round picks 4 games into their career is very harsh, it's going to take Thornhill time to be the player he needs to become.

Where I'll knock him right now is run stuffing DT's and 4-3 LB's are supposed to be super easy to find, you should be able to find them late in drafts, UDFA and in free agency they are usually cheap.

For all of John Dorsey’s faults, he was a wizard when it came to finding players who would come in and contribute from the get go.

Marcus Peters, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt and Chris Jones are all guys that I can think of just off the top of my head that came in and were stars almost immediately. And only one of those guys was a first round pick. He also drafted Mahomes (yes it was Veach who “banged the drum” for him. But ultimately Dorsey has to make the trade up and sign off on the pick for it to happen.)

I just hope that we don’t look back ten years from now and kick ourselves for letting the best talent evaluator in the NFL simply walk out the door if we end up being unable to draft well.

[FAX]

The linebackers are frequently abandoning their gap responsibilities which make the enemy's block angles far easier then they should be. Hitchens appears to be the biggest culprit.

I wish I understood the scheme because it seems as though Spaggyboots is expecting the safeties and slot corners to provide run more run support than should be necessary (if your linebackers are doing the job they're paid to do).

There's another issue, however. I took a quick look at the tape and the officials were allowing a lot of "holding" in that game. Perhaps "holding" isn't the right word, though. Maybe it could be more accurately described as "disrobing the opponent" or "prematurely attempting to swap jerseys". The broadcast video is the only tape available, so you can't see a lot of stuff ... but you can see enough.

FAX

[Chiefspants]

Patrick Mahomes, the most dangerous playmaker in the game of football, had the ball for under 20 minutes in the biggest game the Chiefs had played since 1993.

Make no mistake about it, that's the best way to beat the Chiefs.

[Marcellus]

Patrick Mahomes, the most dangerous playmaker in the game of football, had the ball for under 20 minutes in the biggest game the Chiefs had played since 1993.

Make no mistake about it, that's the best way to beat the Chiefs.

Yes because scoring on 1 and 2 minute minute drives does not play into this at all.

[PAChiefsGuy]

If guys look good then they come here and don't......that isn't a GM problem that is a coach problem.

Also judging second round picks 4 games into their career is very harsh, it's going to take Thornhill time to be the player he needs to become.

Where I'll knock him right now is run stuffing DT's and 4-3 LB's are supposed to be super easy to find, you should be able to find them late in drafts, UDFA and in free agency they are usually cheap.

Not necessarily. Sometimes the scheme doesn't fit the player or the player is not as motivated to play hard after getting paid. Each of those is on the GM to figure out w his scouts, not the coaches.

Either way I see a lack of effort on D with tackling that is the biggest problem. Also our D seems kind of soft. No intimidating players other than Frank Clark. Even Chris Jones, he is a great player but a goofball, not a leader. Need to get more attitude on D.

[mnchiefsguy]

Patrick Mahomes, the most dangerous playmaker in the game of football, had the ball for under 20 minutes in the biggest game the Chiefs had played since 1993.

Make no mistake about it, that's the best way to beat the Chiefs.

And put up 31 points despite being shutdown in the first half.

Run Defense has to get better, no way around it.

Tackling was bad against the Lions. Need to tackle better. A lot of running yards were gained by Detroit on 2nd and 3rd effort. Stop the runner at the initial point of contact will help improve the run D immediately.

[Chiefspants]

And put up 31 points despite being shutdown in the first half.


He sure did. Mahomes is incredible, but Bill still put out the blueprint for how to beat us in January - and that’s by keeping the ball away from the most dynamic playmaker in football.

If we can't force the occasional three and out against a run-heavy offense, we'll still be in trouble going into the playoffs.

I hope our D does gel, and they have plenty of time to get where they need to be.

[BWillie]

I do not agree with this at all. To many teams, in today's NFL, this might be true. However, it is well established that the best chance of beating us on a typical day is keeping Mahomes off the field. Nothing helps accomplish this better than a run game. If we can force teams to rely on their passing game, we at the very least, will force teams to score faster. Scoring faster means more offensive possessions for us. The more possessions we have the greater our chances of winning IMO. Absent a historically inept defense like last year, we will win almost all shoot outs with Mahomes.

This Chiefs moving forward, could never run the ball ever again. And go 13-3.

[T-post Tom]

It's not just Jones. I think Xavier Williams is pretty much worthless at this point. Our LBers are out of position half the time and don't fill their gaps. Also, Detroit got away with a lot of holding on running plays yesterday. Our defenders have to learn to be a little more dramatic to show the holding so that more penalties get called.

LBs don't look good to me. Too often they seem to be out of position, flat-footed, or going the wrong way. Poor ability to diagnose or anticipate what the offense is doing. The tackling throughout the defense has not been good . Going to hurt vs good teams. Run defense needs immediate help.

[mnchiefsguy]

He sure did. Mahomes is incredible, Bill still put out the blueprint for how to beat us in January.

If we can't force the occasional three and out against a run-heavy offense, we'll still be in trouble going into the playoffs.

I hope our D does gel, and they have plenty of time to get where they need to be.

I 100% agree with this. Chiefs have a little over a month before going to NE to figure it out.

[Bwana]

Either way I see a lack of effort on D with tackling that is the biggest problem.

Yep, I agree. Generally at least two players will hit the runner and bounce off without wrapping up. If the coaching staff can't fix that, it will keep happening. It wasn't just yesterday, it's been happening all season.

[Iconic]

There's a reason Tampa Bay is #1 in run D. Our D Tackles are getting washed against the run. I don't think our ends or the scheme is the problem.

[kgrund]

This Chiefs moving forward, could never run the ball ever again. And go 13-3.

I think you are missing the point. Yes, I understand the way to have offensive success in today's NFL is to pass the ball on week to week basis. That is of no concern to me as a Chiefs fan. The only thing I carry about is what approach gives other teams the best chance to beat US. It seems controlling the clock and therefore limiting our possessions coupled with making "just enough" stops is the blueprint. Give Mahomes and Reid enough possessions and they will figure you out or beat you eventually. This has been proven. Given all of this, the ability to stop the run is more important to us than it is to the league as a whole IMO.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Watching Dallas' linebackers last night was illuminating. Vander Esch and Smith were awesome.

[OKchiefs]

Watching Dallas' linebackers last night was illuminating. Vander Esch and Smith were awesome.

They actually have invested draft capital in the position. In the past 3 years we've drafted Kpass, Speaks, Saunders, and Nnadi on the DL. Nnadi seems to be the only one contributing but he's clearly nothing special.

Brett Veach leaves a lot to be desired at talent evaluation, at least on defense. How many high draft picks and large contracts do we have to spend on players who give very little or zero return on the investment? Clark, Hitchens, and Mathieu are among the highest paid at their respective positions and not a single one of them is a consistent force or playmaker.

[TEX]

Worst in the league, by half a yard.

Thoughts.

Will come back to haunt them in the playoffs. LB's are TERRIBLE. Is there a worse than terrible?

[htismaqe]

I watched the game again to see if I could see it.

The #1 problem with rush defense is not the LB's, it's not Frank Clark, it's not Thornhill and HB...

It's Chris f-ing Jones.

I love his intensity and his pass rush is amazing but he's just not disciplined in the run game at all. He shoots upfield and leaves holes on every rushing down. The LB's may not be good but they're never going to be good with OL in their face on every play.

I honestly don't know what to do. Jones is a wrecking ball agains the pass and creates turnovers but the run defense isn't ever going to get better with him in there.

[htismaqe]

They actually have invested draft capital in the position. In the past 3 years we've drafted Kpass, Speaks, Saunders, and Nnadi on the DL. Nnadi seems to be the only one contributing but he's clearly nothing special.

Brett Veach leaves a lot to be desired at talent evaluation, at least on defense. How many high draft picks and large contracts do we have to spend on players who give very little or zero return on the investment? Clark, Hitchens, and Mathieu are among the highest paid at their respective positions and not a single one of them is a consistent force or playmaker.

All of them were good before coming to KC. That should tell you something.

[BossChief]

I watched the game again to see if I could see it.

The #1 problem with rush defense is not the LB's, it's not Frank Clark, it's not Thornhill and HB...

It's Chris f-ing Jones.

I love his intensity and his pass rush is amazing but he's just not disciplined in the run game at all. He shoots upfield and leaves holes on every rushing down. The LB's may not be good but they're never going to be good with OL in their face on every play.

I honestly don't know what to do. Jones is a wrecking ball agains the pass and creates turnovers but the run defense isn't ever going to get better with him in there.
Twice during the game he was sitting next to Daley with tablets in hand.

One of the times, he was pointing at something and Daly shook his head emphatically to say no. And seemingly went in depth in guidance for CJ.

I’ll be surprised if Chris isn’t vastly improved in run defense by game 9 or 10...or Daly will sit him down and play someone the way he wants the position played.

Haley style with DJ.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

It's frustrating absolutely. But when teams want to run the ball in the second half down 14 to "keep the ball away from Mahomes" it doesn't bother me.

It does bother me, however, when something like the AFCCG happens. So, hopefully they improve each week as the season goes on and by the time the playoffs get here they're respectable against the run and pass. Don't need them to be the 85 Bears just need them to be competent in playing defnese.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

We need to put Fuller on the outside

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> CB Kendall Fuller slot vs outside in 2019 through Week 4<br><br>Slot<br>• 121 Coverage Snaps<br>• 13 Rec on 16 Targets<br>• 183 Yards (1.51 per coverage snap), 2 TD<br><br>Outside<br>• 15 Coverage Snaps<br>• 1 Rec on 1 Target<br>• 25 Yards, 0 TD<a href="https://t.co/90UvxYdU4B">https://t.co/90UvxYdU4B</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a></p>&mdash; Sam (@WichitaChiefSam) <a href="https://twitter.com/WichitaChiefSam/status/1178724993762545665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Also pay the man Veach

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> DI Chris Jones had another big game on Sunday<br><br>• 83.6 Overall Grade<br>• 84.1 Pass Rush Grade<br>• 3 Pressures, 1 Sack<br><br>Jones now has a season Pass Rush grade of 88.1, the 4th best in the NFL behind Khalil Mack, Calais Campbell, and Shaquil Barrett!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1178737781461442560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[O.city]

2nd worst run d in history thru 4 weeks. Yikes.

[Amnorix]

I 100% agree with this. Chiefs have a little over a month before going to NE to figure it out.


As of now, the Patriots are NOT a good running team. As compared to last year's AFCCG:

1. No Gronk
2. No above-average left tackle
3. No Pro Bowl level FB (not that that is saying much, this isn't the 70s, but still, Develin is a top 3 guy in teh NFL in run blocking).
4. No starting Center (He's IR, so gone for the year)


On any given run play, you have the QB, the guy toting the ball, and 9 blockers (including WRs). 4 guys means nearly 50% of the guys there last year aren't there now.

It's a problem.

[Pitt Gorilla]

They actually have invested draft capital in the position. In the past 3 years we've drafted Kpass, Speaks, Saunders, and Nnadi on the DL. Nnadi seems to be the only one contributing but he's clearly nothing special.

Brett Veach leaves a lot to be desired at talent evaluation, at least on defense. How many high draft picks and large contracts do we have to spend on players who give very little or zero return on the investment? Clark, Hitchens, and Mathieu are among the highest paid at their respective positions and not a single one of them is a consistent force or playmaker.It's pretty clear that we miss Dorsey. I never understood the Hitchens contract and probably never will.

Wilson, OTOH, look like a good signing.

[Amnorix]

If there is anything that is overrated - it's run defense. It's important but when people say it all starts with stopping the run. No, no it doesn't. Running the ball is at best 25% as effective as throwing the ball.


Did you watch the AFCCG? Run defense won't WIN you games, but a complete lack of it WILL lose you games. Patriots have done that to lots of teams over the last few years -- when everyone else goes pass happy, the Pats ram it down your throat for 200 yards and remove your will to live, much less win.

[Kiimo]

I didn't see this posted



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> have the second worst run defense through 4 weeks in NFL history. <a href="https://t.co/iDxWSBaISS">https://t.co/iDxWSBaISS</a></p>&mdash; Brandon Kiley (@BKSportsTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/BKSportsTalk/status/1178765190747295750?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[dlphg9]

Twice during the game he was sitting next to Daley with tablets in hand.

One of the times, he was pointing at something and Daly shook his head emphatically to say no. And seemingly went in depth in guidance for CJ.

I’ll be surprised if Chris isn’t vastly improved in run defense by game 9 or 10...or Daly will sit him down and play someone the way he wants the position played.

Haley style with DJ.

They ain't sitting Chris Jones. If they do, then they are fucking incompetent retards.

[SupDock]

I didn't see this posted



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> have the second worst run defense through 4 weeks in NFL history. <a href="https://t.co/iDxWSBaISS">https://t.co/iDxWSBaISS</a></p>&mdash; Brandon Kiley (@BKSportsTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/BKSportsTalk/status/1178765190747295750?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yikes.

[Chief Pagan]

The Rams let Tampa Bay lay 55 points on them yesterday and they have Aaron Donald and, much coveted by many around here, Marcus Peters.

If we had done that, everyone around here would be running around like their hair was on fire.
.

Yada yada, any given Sunday, yada.

If I was a Rams fan, I would be panicking.

[TEX]

Did you watch the AFCCG? Run defense won't WIN you games, but a complete lack of it WILL lose you games. Patriots have done that to lots of teams over the last few years -- when everyone else goes pass happy, the Pats ram it down your throat for 200 yards and remove your will to live, much less win.

ROFL Yes, I watched the AFCCG game. Whoever got the ball 1st in OT was going to win. Run defense or no run defense, will or no will.

[dlphg9]

I'll say it again, run D is not why we lost the AFCCG. They had 3.7 ypc. That's actually pretty damn good.

[RunKC]

Yes because scoring on 1 and 2 minute minute drives does not play into this at all.

In the AFCCG, the Patriots ran the ball and controlled the clock the first half. We didn’t have rhythm on offense bc we were sitting on the bench for a long ass time.

It played perfectly for Bill. We only had 3 possession in the first half and Bill could use his bag of tricks to confuse our offense, which worked. We didn’t have enough tape in game to adjust because we only ran 8 plays the first 22 minutes of the game.

We were lucky it wasn’t a blowout. If not for Ragland’s INT at the 1 yard line, it would have likely been 21-0 at half.

[jerryaldini]

Agree it's a concern, but a positive note is that despite the poor run D, teams are only running on us an average amount. We face about 10 fewer rushes per game than the worst teams. That's the Mahomes effect, and it makes sense for the chiefs to prioritize pass D because they will be playing ahead most of the time.

I don't buy that teams run to keep Mahomes off the field. They have to score almost every drive. It's like playing from behind the whole game, even before you are behind.

[O.city]

Seems like we're doin the same shit we did last year where "it's not so bad, it's not so bad" then it was and we lost.

[Aspengc8]

We need to put Fuller on the outside

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> CB Kendall Fuller slot vs outside in 2019 through Week 4<br><br>Slot<br>• 121 Coverage Snaps<br>• 13 Rec on 16 Targets<br>• 183 Yards (1.51 per coverage snap), 2 TD<br><br>Outside<br>• 15 Coverage Snaps<br>• 1 Rec on 1 Target<br>• 25 Yards, 0 TD<a href="https://t.co/90UvxYdU4B">https://t.co/90UvxYdU4B</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a></p>&mdash; Sam (@WichitaChiefSam) <a href="https://twitter.com/WichitaChiefSam/status/1178724993762545665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

why? The ratio is pretty close when they have the same amount of coverage snaps vs reception/yardage.

[RunKC]

Seems like we're doin the same shit we did last year where "it's not so bad, it's not so bad" then it was and we lost.

Well yeah and we have posters here calling you a pussy while digging their heads 30 yards in the sand without realizing what you just said.

[smithandrew051]

I'll say it again, run D is not why we lost the AFCCG. They had 3.7 ypc. That's actually pretty damn good.

The bigger issue is that we only ran 47 plays to their 94. 524 yards for New England to our 290.

In the first half our offense did this:

5 plays for -6 yards. Punt.
3 plays for 9 yards. Punt.
7 plays for 49 yards Punt.
1 play for -15 yards. End of half.

16 plays for a total of 37 yards.

We can’t leave our defense on the field for THAT long in a half and go scoreless. We will not beat New England if we don’t show up in the first half.

[O.city]

Yeah, I think the whole "the defense was on the field so long" shit is just that, shit.

You know how the defense doesn't have to spend so much time on the field? Get stops and get off the field.

[PAChiefsGuy]

I'll say it again, run D is not why we lost the AFCCG. They had 3.7 ypc. That's actually pretty damn good.

It'd be good if they got 3.7 ypc on say 15 rushing attempts but when you average 3.7 ypc and run the ball 48 times while getting 36 first downs? Then 3.7 ypc is pretty damn bad. We knew they were going to run it and we couldn't stop them. Plain and simple.

And so far this season we are having the same type of problem with our run D. It's very concerning and needs to be fixed by the time the playoffs start.

The bigger issue is that we only ran 47 plays to their 94. 524 yards for New England to our 290.

In the first half our offense did this:

5 plays for -6 yards. Punt.
3 plays for 9 yards. Punt.
7 plays for 49 yards Punt.
1 play for -15 yards. End of half.

16 plays for a total of 37 yards.

We can’t leave our defense on the field for THAT long in a half and go scoreless. We will not beat New England if we don’t show up in the first half.

Agreed the offense has to do better than that. They turned it around in the 2nd half but that doesn't excuse the 1st half. Most of our Pro Bowlers are on the offensive side of the ball. They need to help the D out as much as they can. A total of 37 yds in a half is really bad and simply not going to get it done when you have a team as unbalanced (talent wise) as ours is and you go against a team/organization as good as the Patriots.

[rabblerouser]

Yes because scoring on 1 and 2 minute minute drives does not play into this at all.

How many drives did we have in the first half of that game, and how many times did we score on those drives?

A game is more than one half, you know...it's more than 3 3rd down conversions, and it's more than 1 half of football.

Half is 50%. You know that words have meanings, right?

[smithandrew051]

Yeah, I think the whole "the defense was on the field so long" shit is just that, shit.

You know how the defense doesn't have to spend so much time on the field? Get stops and get off the field.

The defense was half of the equation in the first half of that game.

The offense doing absolutely nothing with their possession put the defense in a bad spot.

We knew the defense was absolute shit last year. We didn’t expect our offense to be so bad in the first half.

There’s plenty of blame to go around from that game. It’s not as simple as just blaming the defense. If the offense does anything positive at all in the first half, we probably win.

[rabblerouser]

The bigger issue is that we only ran 47 plays to their 94. 524 yards for New England to our 290.

In the first half our offense did this:

5 plays for -6 yards. Punt.
3 plays for 9 yards. Punt.
7 plays for 49 yards Punt.
1 play for -15 yards. End of half.

16 plays for a total of 37 yards.

We can’t leave our defense on the field for THAT long in a half and go scoreless. We will not beat New England if we don’t show up in the first half.

THIS.

Anyone who thinks our run D wasn't a problem vs NE in the playoffs last year is a ****ing moron who knows **** all about football and simple math, because a 3.7 ypc average is a first down every 3 plays.

[BWillie]

Did you watch the AFCCG? Run defense won't WIN you games, but a complete lack of it WILL lose you games. Patriots have done that to lots of teams over the last few years -- when everyone else goes pass happy, the Pats ram it down your throat for 200 yards and remove your will to live, much less win.

I did. I thought Brady and Co just converting third downs on passing plays is what beat us. Sure we sucked against the run, but what did we give up in that game like 3.5 ypc? Run defense is important, but it sure isn't as important as pass defense and third down defense (which is almost solely defending the pass).

The thought that you have to run to set up the pass, also horseshit. You do not.

[rabblerouser]

In the AFCCG, the Patriots ran the ball and controlled the clock the first half. We didn’t have rhythm on offense bc we were sitting on the bench for a long ass time.

It played perfectly for Bill. We only had 3 possession in the first half and Bill could use his bag of tricks to confuse our offense, which worked. We didn’t have enough tape in game to adjust because we only ran 8 plays the first 22 minutes of the game.

We were lucky it wasn’t a blowout. If not for Ragland’s INT at the 1 yard line, it would have likely been 21-0 at half.

Oh, so you watched the game, too? You saw what I saw.

[rabblerouser]

I did. I thought Brady and Co just converting third downs on passing plays is what beat us. Sure we sucked against the run, but what did we give up in that game like 3.5 ypc? Run defense is important, but it sure isn't as important as pass defense and third down defense (which is almost solely defending the pass).

The thought that you have to run to set up the pass, also horseshit. You do not.

Well, we already know that you're a fucking moron, but here you go, proving it again :

3.7 ypc, to be precise, which, in case you don't understand math, is a first down every 3 plays.

WHICH WILL GET YOU BEAT.

You're a fucking moron if you think the whole game came down to 3 3rd down conversions.

Amnorix is correct, as much as it pains me to admit - WE HAD 3 WHOLE DRIVES IN THE FIRST HALF OF THAT GAME. THEY ATE THE CLOCK.

THAT'S HOW WE WERE SCORELESS IN THE FIRST HALF.

[jspchief]

The bad run D feels like fundamentals. Bad tackling, over pursuit, bad angles.

The bad pass D feels like talent. Its all Ward can do just to stay with his man, let alone defend him.

Really disappointed in the front 7. They look soft and undisciplined.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[PAChiefsGuy]

I did. I thought Brady and Co just converting third downs on passing plays is what beat us. Sure we sucked against the run, but what did we give up in that game like 3.5 ypc? Run defense is important, but it sure isn't as important as pass defense and third down defense (which is almost solely defending the pass).

The thought that you have to run to set up the pass, also horseshit. You do not.

I don't think run D is any less important than pass D and if it is it isn't by much. Sure teams pass more nowadays but if you have a bad base run D teams can just run all over you and force D Coordinators to bring more help up to the line which can open things up for the pass, especially PA passes. You have to have at least an average run D to have a decent defense nowdays.

[BWillie]

Well, we already know that you're a ****ing moron, but here you go, proving it again :

3.7 ypc, to be precise, which, in case you don't understand math, is a first down every 3 plays.

WHICH WILL GET YOU BEAT.

You're a ****ing moron if you think the whole game came down to 3 3rd down conversions.

Amnorix is correct, as much as it pains me to admit - WE HAD 3 WHOLE DRIVES IN THE FIRST HALF OF THAT GAME. THEY ATE THE CLOCK.

THAT'S HOW WE WERE SCORELESS IN THE FIRST HALF.

You seem to be missing my point. And you are getting emotional. Have I said run defense isn't important? No, I have not.

If your assertion is run defense is AS IMPORTANT as pass defense in the NFL? Then why? How could that possibly be the case when QB is the most important position in football, RBs really don't matter, and the teams with the best QBs and passing systems are routinely the best teams in football now.

It's like you are stuck in the 1980s. The game is reffed differently. This makes running offense less important and being able to stop it less important.

There could actually be an argument that the Chiefs not being good at stopping the run could be an advantage for them against dumb football coaches, because they'll race out to a lead and teams will try to keep up by running the ball which is a less effective way of scoring.

To beat the Chiefs you need to score and hope we turn it over.

[rabblerouser]

You seem to be missing my point. And you are getting emotional. Have I said run defense isn't important? No, I have not.

If your assertion is run defense is AS IMPORTANT as pass defense in the NFL? Then why? How could that possibly be the case when QB is the most important position in football, RBs really don't matter, and the teams with the best QBs and passing systems are routinely the best teams in football now.

It's like you are stuck in the 1980s. The game is reffed differently. This makes running offense less important and being able to stop it less important.

There could actually be an argument that the Chiefs not being good at stopping the run could be an advantage for them against dumb football coaches, because they'll race out to a lead and teams will try to keep up by running the ball which is a less effective way of scoring.

To beat the Chiefs you need to score and hope we turn it over.
https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71395507_3631310306894508_2177399684354539520_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkPkp_0ss7MM9GyEVG1VAh5tJ08rInIALjWbN76vjJ5cSJxlGlelDx6piphziOVfDk&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=67f115e14501c9053ca7e30736844b9a&oe=5DF89D05
I'm going to let you in on a little secret : Bill Belichick is not a dumb football coach.

In normal circumstances, you're absolutely correct...but BB will take your weakness and brain you over the head with it. He eliminated Tyreek by doubling him, then rolled the zone over Kelce and Watkins. It took Reid three or four series to adjust...but it was the second half by that point, because BB exploited our (lack of) run defense.

You can get away with that shit against mere mortals, but BB and TB12 will make you pay, the hard way. By the time we got into gear, they were up by what, 10-0, 17-0? If it weren't for Ragland's pick, it would've been 21-0.

We can't afford to spot them 3 scores if we expect to beat them. And run defense has EVERYTHING to do with that, because the 1st half was when they ran the ball - they had the lead. They exploited our (lack of) run D.

EXPLOITED.

[Rain Man]

Maybe we're yielding 5.9 ypc, but that number is skewed by 10 or 20 long runs.

[TambaBerry]

The bad run D feels like fundamentals. Bad tackling, over pursuit, bad angles.

The bad pass D feels like talent. Its all Ward can do just to stay with his man, let alone defend him.

Really disappointed in the front 7. They look soft and undisciplined.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Hell at this point I'd love for our lb to over pursue. Right now they can't even get to the outside runs. We have lineman and tight ends blocking our corners and safeties

[ThyKingdomCome15]

It's not like we've played slouch running teams. Jacobs, Fournette, Lamar/Ingram, and K. Johnson is a tough lineup. Let's see how they look against the Colts.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

It's not like we've played slouch running teams. Jacobs, Fournette, Lamar/Ingram, and K. Johnson is a tough lineup. Let's see how they look against the Colts.

Oh so Marlon Mack can add to that total. Mack isn’t a slouch

[Kiimo]

Was gonna say start Mack

[ARROW2]

https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71395507_3631310306894508_2177399684354539520_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkPkp_0ss7MM9GyEVG1VAh5tJ08rInIALjWbN76vjJ5cSJxlGlelDx6piphziOVfDk&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=67f115e14501c9053ca7e30736844b9a&oe=5DF89D05
I'm going to let you in on a little secret : Bill Belichick is not a dumb football coach.

In normal circumstances, you're absolutely correct...but BB will take your weakness and brain you over the head with it. He eliminated Tyreek by doubling him, then rolled the zone over Kelce and Watkins. It took Reid three or four series to adjust...but it was the second half by that point, because BB exploited our (lack of) run defense.

You can get away with that shit against mere mortals, but BB and TB12 will make you pay, the hard way. By the time we got into gear, they were up by what, 10-0, 17-0? If it weren't for Ragland's pick, it would've been 21-0.

We can't afford to spot them 3 scores if we expect to beat them. And run defense has EVERYTHING to do with that, because the 1st half was when they ran the ball - they had the lead. They exploited our (lack of) run D.

EXPLOITED.

The game is 4 quarters. Once we took the lead.....TWICE...anything that happened earlier is irrelevant. When it was crunch time, TB 12 was throwing. The falcons had a GREAT FIRST half against the pats...how did that turn out?

[rabblerouser]

The game is 4 quarters. Once we took the lead.....TWICE...anything that happened earlier is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, though. Instead of 3 and 4 point leads, those could have been 10 and 14 point leads...had we scored just ONCE in the first half.

[Marcellus]

THIS.

Anyone who thinks our run D wasn't a problem vs NE in the playoffs last year is a ****ing moron who knows **** all about football and simple math, because a 3.7 ypc average is a first down every 3 plays.

Read the play by play and tell me again run defense is THE reason we lost the game. You are being a dipshit. Yes they ran the ball ok but frankly it wasn't the reason we lost. Our offense sucked balls in the first half.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201901200kan.htm#all_pbp

If you believe that then you think we won yesterday because the Lions run defense sucks.

[TEX]

Read the play by play and tell me again run defense is THE reason we lost the game. You are being a dipshit. Yes they ran the ball ok but frankly it wasn't the reason we lost. Our offense sucked balls in the first half.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201901200kan.htm#all_pbp

If you believe that then you think we won yesterday because the Lions run defense sucks.

He didn't say it was the reason we lost - he said it was a problem - and it was. It still is, and will contribute to the derailment of this team again, if it doesn't improve.

[Chiefshrink]

Until something changes....namely Chris Jones deciding he has a desire to keep his gap or him not playing in run downs I'm not sure what can be done to change it.

The rest of the line defends the run pretty solidly, wide runs get handled, his gap though, watch him, on runs he tries pass rush moves comes right out of his gap and we have a guard on a LB and it's a 7 yard run.

IMHO he doesn't get paid until he can be disciplined in stopping the run. I've said this many times that this is the weak part of his game.

[Marcellus]

He didn't say it was the reason we lost - he said it was a problem - and it was. Still is, and will help derail this team again, if it doesn't improve.

No he is blaming the loss on the run defense period. But here is the deal, any deficiency on defense can cost us in the future.

Frankly I would rather shore up the pass defense, its a much bigger issue. We gave up too many chunk pass plays and that will lose you more games. This nonsense about keeping Mahomes off the field is just that.

TD's win games and thats done mainly throwing the ball.

It a fact the team has never scored less than 26 in any Mahomes start, even with the terrible run defense, so stop with the craziness.

Im not saying its a good thing I just think pass defense is a bigger deal and ultimately its what has cost us every game we have lost minus the Seattle game maybe.

[rabblerouser]

He didn't say it was the reason we lost - he said it was a problem - and it was. It still is, and will contribute to the derailment of this team again, if it doesn't improve.

TEX knows what words mean.

[Red Dawg]

What does a team have to do in thisbleague to stop the damn run. We have haven't had a good run defense since the 90s. We had one huge need of defense. Fix the damn run defense. I think it may be worse.

[Marcellus]

TEX knows what words mean.

If we could acquire Jalen Ramsey or a run stuffing DT or LB this week which one would you rather have?

[rabblerouser]

If we could acquire Jalen Ramsey or a run stuffing DT or LB this week which one would you rather have?

Depends on who the DT is...

I'd take Aaron Donald over Ramsey in a heartbeat.

[ARROW2]

Depends on who the DT is...

I'd take Aaron Donald over Ramsey in a heartbeat.



Did Aaron Donald stop that double nickel that Winston put on dat head?

[ARROW2]

Read the play by play and tell me again run defense is THE reason we lost the game. You are being a dipshit. Yes they ran the ball ok but frankly it wasn't the reason we lost. Our offense sucked balls in the first half.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201901200kan.htm#all_pbp

If you believe that then you think we won yesterday because the Lions run defense sucks.



It's like when Kobe would miss his first 10 shots.....SO FUCKING WHAT? You know he is coming and will make up for it during the game..

[Megatron96]

I think we're going to have to get used to the idea that teams are going to try and run against us, until the defense proves that it can consistently put their offenses in 2nd-and-long, and third-and-long situations. After all, they have history on their side.

The Chiefs were just about the worst run defense in the league last year, and every OC knows that you can't put together a top-tier run defense using a brand-new scheme, involving 6 new starters in one off-season. It can't be done.

So every team we face is going to look at that and make it a point of emphasis to try and establish the run against our defense. And so far the Chiefs defense hasn't been able to consistently stop them. Which opens up their passing attack.

Our defense has had moments or flashes of good run D, but as yet not for an entire half, much less an entire game.

Based on what we're seeing on the field, it probably will be in the last quarter of the season before we see them consistently play run defense at a top tier level. And that's being a bit optimistic with our LBs.

Unfortunately, if our run D doesn't produce enough long-yardage situations, our pass rush is going to have a hard time producing at all. You can't let our guys pin their ears back and hunt the QB if we can't do any better than 3rd-and-3, or -4.

[Marcellus]

Depends on who the DT is...

I'd take Aaron Donald over Ramsey in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't.

[rabblerouser]

Did Aaron Donald stop that double nickel that Winston put on dat head?

Nope. But the Rams offense kept giving TB the ball! Goff was a turnover machine, interceptions and fumbles. Hell, the TB defense had more TDs yesterday than Dallas and NO had combined!!

[rabblerouser]

I wouldn't.

Of course you wouldn't. but the point is moot, because the Rams paid Donald and won't trade him. The Jags won't pay Ramsey, but will trade him.

[Titty Meat]

Belichick formulated a game plan on how to beat the Chiefs are it barely works.

Giving up almost 6 a carry is troubling.

The line getting beat with a 3 man rush is more troubling. The lions would do that look have 1 safety probe the line and set the other safety 20 yards back. I'm sure Andy will figure out a way to beat that. Oh yeah just block better.

[MMXcalibur]

Run stopping is attitude. They play like pussies. Man up and tackle.

Absolutely this.

You can see the line move 1-2 yards up field when the opposition runs the ball. Its fucking pathetic.

[-King-]

It's not like we've played slouch running teams. Jacobs, Fournette, Lamar/Ingram, and K. Johnson is a tough lineup. Let's see how they look against the Colts.

All of those guys suck or are average other than maybe Ingram.

[O.city]

The last two years in the playoffs they’ve lost games where they gave up 201 and 175 yards on the ground

It’s a huge fucking problem

[kccrow]

The problem is this team can't maintain gaps. It's a 4-3 base, 1-gap defense for the most part.

Starters packages... Basically doesn't matter if it's a 4-3 stack, under, or over... Jones will generally have a B gap and Nnadi the opposite A gap. Hitchens will have the other A gap to Jones side. Lee has B gap to Nnadi's side while Wilson has C gap to to Jones side. Okafor/Ogbah should have outside contain to Jones side while Clark has C gap/outside contain to Nnadi's side.


The problem I saw a few times yesterday looked to be assignment breakdowns. One gif that was posted had Jones and Nnadi both take B gaps and Hitches fill late to the A gaps and get plowed by the FB. This can't happen. I'm not sure which lineman fucked up for sure because undoubtedly they flip responsibilities from the normal. If I'm basing it off of base assignments, Nnadi (primarily) and Hitchens (because he's late to fill everything) were the issue (and more often than not).

[-King-]

The last two years in the playoffs they’ve lost games where they gave up 201 and 175 yards on the ground

It’s a huge fucking problem

I don't know why people pretend it isn't. It serves both purpose to hopeful success against us. It attacks our weakness on defense and keeps out strength on offense off the field.

It's just weird how people talked about how bad we needly to change on defense in the off season and when season comes and it's more of the same, people are okay with it and make excuses for it.

[O.city]

I don't know why people pretend it isn't. It serves both purpose to hopeful success against us. It attacks our weakness on defense and keeps out strength on offense off the field.

It's just weird how people talked about how bad we needly to change on defense in the off season and when season comes and it's more of the same, people are okay with it and make excuses for it.

Yep

And it’s actually 3 straight seasons in the playoffs

Remember what leveon did in kc 3 years back!

[RunKC]

Xavier Williams and Chris Jones don’t maintain gaps and it leaves the LB’s out to dry. People birch about Hitchens but what is he supposed to do when a C is coming free to erase him?

Look at how awful these guys are maintaining gaps. Not trying to purposefully pick on Xavier but Christ he was awful yesterday.

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[tk13]

The last two years in the playoffs they’ve lost games where they gave up 201 and 175 yards on the ground

It’s a huge ****ing problem

They gave up 171 to the Steelers the year before that, too.

It's probably a bigger deal now more than ever since we have Mahomes and that's the best way to keep him off the field.

[kccrow]

Xavier Williams and Chris Jones don’t maintain gaps and it leaves the LB’s out to dry. People birch about Hitchens but what is he supposed to do when a C is coming free to erase him?

Look at how awful these guys are maintaining gaps. Not trying to purposefully pick on Xavier but Christ he was awful yesterday.

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/3c0yvq"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/3c0yvq.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

Gaps are the issue in my opinion as I outlined a couple posts above. I'm not certain it's just a single player or couple players. If Spags is asking his NTs to play different gap assignments than normal, others are fucking up, but it SEEMS to start at whoever is playing the NT position and gets worse going out because of it. Hitchens could make an impact by at least filling a gap if he wasn't always late. At least if he does get steam rolled by every lineman and fullback that comes at him, he'd get in the way.

[Valiant]

More of the same. This is Reid's fault. Both lines are soft. Difference is mahomes bails out the online with his legs and arms. Can't blitz hardly ever. Normally you need to get pressure with 3 or 4.

The defense has the same problems.
1. Soft
2. Bad tackling technique
3. Bad approach

Defenders wait for the ball carrier to come to them picking up massive yards constantly.

[Red Dawg]

Maybe we should make a move for a real MLB. LBs on our roster are shit.

[RunKC]

Veach has to make a move for a strong DT to hold the point and it shouldn’t even cost much.

I’d try Austin Johnson from Tennessee.

[Titty Meat]

Veach has to make a move for a strong DT to hold the point and it shouldn’t even cost much.

I’d try Austin Johnson from Tennessee.

LMAO

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Can we just cut Xavier and tell Nnadi to get his ass in shape and play him every down. He’s literally the only player on that line that is good against the run

[Titty Meat]

I don't know why people pretend it isn't. It serves both purpose to hopeful success against us. It attacks our weakness on defense and keeps out strength on offense off the field.

It's just weird how people talked about how bad we needly to change on defense in the off season and when season comes and it's more of the same, people are okay with it and make excuses for it.

It's a problem because it shortens the game. Which happened yesterday and Mahomes looked human for 3/4 of the game. If you give up that many yards on the ground and turn it over against the Patriots in the post season we'll lose.

There were good things to take away from yesterday dont get me wrong but it was nice to see where our weaknesses are. Detriot is a playoff team BTW.

[Rpgczar7]

As bad as the chiefs run defense may be I'd argue the colts run d is potentially worse. Even though we've given up slightly less 5.5 yards a carry. Every game some unknown back tips off a 20, 30, or 60 yard gain against us.

[JakeF]

Jones is undisciplined and leaves his gap wide open a lot.

[Titty Meat]

Jones is undisciplined and leaves his gap wide open a lot.

Jones will get paid off the strength of his pass rush abilities both inside and out. Name guys who will be there in free agency or the draft who will produce at that level. Hes going to get paid.

[Chris Meck]

Jones will get paid off the strength of his pass rush abilities both inside and out. Name guys who will be there in free agency or the draft who will produce at that level. Hes going to get paid.

this is likely true.

However, it may not be the best idea for the Chiefs to be the ones to pony up.

He's a very talented player, no doubt, but has been pretty undisciplined to this point.

[htismaqe]

Well, we already know that you're a fucking moron, but here you go, proving it again :

3.7 ypc, to be precise, which, in case you don't understand math, is a first down every 3 plays.

WHICH WILL GET YOU BEAT.

You're a fucking moron if you think the whole game came down to 3 3rd down conversions.

Amnorix is correct, as much as it pains me to admit - WE HAD 3 WHOLE DRIVES IN THE FIRST HALF OF THAT GAME. THEY ATE THE CLOCK.

THAT'S HOW WE WERE SCORELESS IN THE FIRST HALF.

ROFL

3.7ypc doesn't equal a first down every 3 plays. That's not how situational statistical averages work.

Furthermore, 3.7ypc would have the Chiefs tied for SEVENTH BEST rush defense in the league right now. 3.7ypc would be top 10 almost every season in the past 10.

You vastly overestimate how good NFL defenses are against the run. The majority of NFL defense give up around 4ypc.

[O.city]

Yeah if the chiefs were at 4.5 or lower we’d all be ecstatic

[htismaqe]

I don't know why people pretend it isn't. It serves both purpose to hopeful success against us. It attacks our weakness on defense and keeps out strength on offense off the field.

It's just weird how people talked about how bad we needly to change on defense in the off season and when season comes and it's more of the same, people are okay with it and make excuses for it.

You've completely mischaracterized what's going on.

Nobody is okay with it. Nobody thinks it's okay.

They changed the ENTIRE coaching staff. They changed HALF of the starting personnel.

What more can they realistically do at this point? It's not a question of being okay with it. It's a matter of not letting it completely destroy our enjoyment of the season. There's plenty of reason to believe it will improve as the season goes on so why spend so much time and energy making ourselves miserable?

[htismaqe]

Yeah if the chiefs were at 4.5 or lower we’d all be ecstatic

To give you an idea, the Ravens finished with the 3rd best rush defense in the league last year.

At 3.7ypc.

[jspchief]

Xavier Williams and Chris Jones don’t maintain gaps and it leaves the LB’s out to dry. People birch about Hitchens but what is he supposed to do when a C is coming free to erase him?



Look at how awful these guys are maintaining gaps. Not trying to purposefully pick on Xavier but Christ he was awful yesterday.



<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/3c0yvq"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/3c0yvq.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>Ugh wtf is Williams even doing there? It's like he's too busy trying to battle the blocker to even consider the hole that's being opened. Terrible.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[rabblerouser]

ROFL

3.7ypc doesn't equal a first down every 3 plays. That's not how situational statistical averages work.

Furthermore, 3.7ypc would have the Chiefs tied for SEVENTH BEST rush defense in the league right now. 3.7ypc would be top 10 almost every season in the past 10.

You vastly overestimate how good NFL defenses are against the run. The majority of NFL defense give up around 4ypc.

Right, which goes to show you how patient and committed BB can be - he doesn't care if he's only getting a 3.7 ypc avg, he'll use it to keep Mahomes off the field. Just like he did in the AFC Championship Game. It was the 2nd half before Reid could adjust to what BB's defense was doing. By then, they were running to protect the lead, and passing on third downs. Pushing our shit in. I forget how many yards Burkhead needed to get the winning TD in OT, but iirc it was less than 3.7 yards.

Talk about changing personel, talk about changing the defensive coaching staff...run D comes from attitude. Period. This team still doesn't have the attitude in place.

You can still gash them in the middle, and around the corner. That needs to change, in a hurry. Because we can beat the Jacksonvilles and Detroits and Raiders and Broncos and Baltimores all day long...but we probably won't beat the Pats until we shore up that run defense.

Belichick will always use your weakness against you. It's what he does.

[rabblerouser]

Xavier Williams and Chris Jones don’t maintain gaps and it leaves the LB’s out to dry. People bitch about Hitchens but what is he supposed to do when a C is coming free to erase him?

Look at how awful these guys are maintaining gaps. Not trying to purposefully pick on Xavier but Christ he was awful yesterday.

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/3c0yvq"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/3c0yvq.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>
Yup. Gotta be disciplined, gotta maintain that gap coverage. The reason DT was able to freelance like he did was because Phillips and Saleamua were so fucking disciplined in the gap maintainence. We don't have that in Jones, Williams, and Nnadi - everyone keeps going for the big play instead of being disciplined, and it does hang Clark and the LBs out to dry quite a bit.

[RunKC]

“If you don’t think that stopping the run wasn’t a major issue for this team in January, and that it didn’t lead to them losing , I would recommend you buy NFL gamepass and watch the AFC Championship game where the Patriots are in 21 personnel with a FB and TE running it down the Chiefs throats.”

Terez Paylor

[rabblerouser]

“If you don’t think that stopping the run wasn’t a major issue for this team in January, and that it didn’t lead to them losing , I would recommend you buy NFL gamepass and watch the AFC Championship game where the Patriots are in 21 personnel with a FB and TE running it down the Chiefs throats.”

Terez Paylor
Terez is correct. Only someone who doesn't understand football would think that it's not an issue...

[rabblerouser]

Maybe we should make a move for a real MLB. LBs on our roster are shit.

They'd look better if our line could play disciplined gap maintenance.

[Beef Supreme]

Terez is correct. Only someone who doesn't understand football would think that it's not an issue...

Terez would be correct if he didn't use that double negative.

[rabblerouser]

Terez would be correct if he didn't use that double negative.

The media doesn't us correct grammar in 2019. Except for maybe Brooke Pryor and her use of commas...she's passionate about commas, brah.

[dlphg9]

To give you an idea, the Ravens finished with the 3rd best rush defense in the league last year.

At 3.7ypc.

That's what we held the Pats to in the AFCCG and there longest run was 14 yards.

[dlphg9]

I post this in a different thread about the defense, but figure it'd go good here too.

I think the most important stat for this defense is the percent of the opponents drives that they are able to stop, either by forcing a punt, turnover, turnover on downs, or stopping at the end of half or drive. So far this year the defense has been vastly improved in that regard. I know what some of you will say, "yeah if we stop them then they don't score", but it's not just that. It has more to with getting this offense the ball back and the more times the offense gets the ball the better. This defense is going to give up points, but as long as we can get some stops during the way it will allow the offense to keep widening that gap. So at this point last year our defense was on the field for 41 drives and only made a stop 19 times, which means they made a stop on 46% of the drives. Now when you look at this year the defense has made a pretty significant increase in the percentage of stops. They have been on the field for 44 drives and have made stops on 24 of those drives, that comes out to a 55% stop rate.

Another thing our D needs to do is force the other team to kick FGs. The stop rate or the amount of FGs the defense forced last year was 63% and this year we are at 70%. So another pretty big improvement over last year.

So even though the rush D is terribly bad, they are still vastly improved over last year. If the D can keep this improvement, then they will be just fine. All we wanted was a middle of the pack D. No one thought we'd be a top 10 unit. Now just imagine if Frank Clark turns it around and gets pressures and sacks like he should, then this defense improves even more and likely gets more 3rd down stops. We will also be getting help on pass D when Claiborne makes his return. He has to be an improvement over Ward. I'm not worried one bit about our D. We just needed a defense that could get off the field on a more consistent basis, so our offense would have more possessions and so far they've done that.

[O.city]

That's what we held the Pats to in the AFCCG and there longest run was 14 yards.

The last 3 playoff losses in the last 3 years they've given up over 175 yards on the ground.

In the end, that is why they lost.

[RunKC]

We got slaughtered at the beginning of the AFCCG, then Sutton put an extra DL in to stop the run and it worked for awhile...but it just lead to Brady carving us up with his arm due to us having one less player in the secondary.

Stopping the run was a critical reason why we lost that game. Anyone who says differently doesn’t know football.

[htismaqe]

They lost the game because they couldn't get off the field in 3rd and long. They gave up over 80% completion percentage on 3rd and 9 or more.

The run defense IS a problem. It isn't THE problem, not yet.

[dlphg9]

The last 3 playoff losses in the last 3 years they've given up over 175 yards on the ground.

In the end, that is why they lost.

Yeah and who was the QB those first 2 playoff losses? Oh yeah Alex Smith. You can beat an Alex led offense by running the ball, that's not how it is against PMII. He scores too quick and scores TDs more often than Alex.

The Pats had 176 rush yards and 99 of those came in the first half and they only scored on 2 drives. They averaged 3.96 ypc in the first half and then in the second half they had 62 yards and averaged a whopping 3.26 ypc. So please explain to me how having a better run D helps us win that game. Because if PMII would have played like he normally played we would have scored at least once in the 1st half. That's not the run Ds fault. It's not the run Ds fault that 3/4 of Tom Brady OT completions were on 3rd and long to extend the drive. Our terrible pass D lost us that game.

[O.city]

Yeah and who was the QB those first 2 playoff losses? Oh yeah Alex Smith. You can beat an Alex led offense by running the ball, that's not how it is against PMII. He scores too quick and scores TDs more often than Alex.

The Pats had 176 rush yards and 99 of those came in the first half and they only scored on 2 drives. They averaged 3.96 ypc in the first half and then in the second half they had 62 yards and averaged a whopping 3.26 ypc. So please explain to me how having a better run D helps us win that game. Because if PMII would have played like he normally played we would have scored at least once in the 1st half. That's not the run Ds fault. It's not the run Ds fault that 3/4 of Tom Brady OT completions were on 3rd and long to extend the drive. Our terrible pass D lost us that game.

That terrible pass D forced 2 turnovers, 1 in the endzone to stop a scoring drive where they ran it down the Chiefs throat.

Better run D gets the Chiefs more possessions in the first half. Hell the Pats first drive took off 8 minutes of the game.

[htismaqe]

That terrible pass D forced 2 turnovers, 1 in the endzone to stop a scoring drive where they ran it down the Chiefs throat.

Better run D gets the Chiefs more possessions in the first half. Hell the Pats first drive took off 8 minutes of the game.

What good was another possession going to do? According to CP, we were screwed on offense because CHunt fired #27.

[rabblerouser]

That terrible pass D forced 2 turnovers, 1 in the endzone to stop a scoring drive where they ran it down the Chiefs throat.

Better run D gets the Chiefs more possessions in the first half. Hell the Pats first drive took off 8 minutes of the game.

dipshit9, being a dipshit.

[rabblerouser]

What good was another possession going to do? According to CP, we were screwed on offense because CHunt fired #27.

Are you being sarcastic?

[dlphg9]

dipshit9, being a dipshit.

What do ya know the retarded lying low life continues his obsession with the person he has on ignore. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of being the low life retard you were raised to be?

[O.city]

What good was another possession going to do? According to CP, we were screwed on offense because CHunt fired #27.

Yeah, I dunno about that.


KInda funny that Shady has put up nearly identical numbers thru 4 games this year as Hunt did last year thru 4.

[O.city]

Why do we have to fight and act like assholes about this? Come on guys, be better.

Football discussion is fine with out the name calling.

You fucks.

[rabblerouser]

Why do we have to fight and act like assholes about this? Come on guys, be better.

Football discussion is fine with out the name calling.

You ****s.

ROFL
LMAO

If people would quit quoting dipshit9, we wouldn't have that problem :thumb:

He's gotta be close to getting Ubeja'ed.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, I dunno about that.


KInda funny that Shady has put up nearly identical numbers thru 4 games this year as Hunt did last year thru 4.

There are people here that will never acknowledge that because cutting a drunken, violent liar is a "bad" thing to do in their eyes.

[rabblerouser]

There are people here that will never acknowledge that because cutting a drunken, violent liar is a "bad" thing to do in their eyes.

This. **** Khunt. He's Cleveland's problem now

[PAChiefsGuy]

There are people here that will never acknowledge that because cutting a drunken, violent liar is a "bad" thing to do in their eyes.

Right. I guess that is why there was such an outrage when the Browns signed the drunken violent liar.... Oh wait....

[htismaqe]

This. **** Khunt. He's Cleveland's problem now

And as evidence I submit to you the thumbs down I got for posting that. You'll never guess who did it. And yes, NOW I'm being sarcastic.

[htismaqe]

Right. I guess that is why there was such an outrage when the Browns signed the drunken violent liar.... Oh wait....

Willingness to overlook those things doesn't mean they don't exist. LOL

[rabblerouser]

And as evidence I submit to you the thumbs down I got for posting that. You'll never guess who did it. And yes, NOW I'm being sarcastic.

I figured you were being sarcastic...it was like you posted in sarcasm font. ROFL

[RunKC]

They lost the game because they couldn't get off the field in 3rd and long. They gave up over 80% completion percentage on 3rd and 9 or more.

The run defense IS a problem. It isn't THE problem, not yet.

Technically we DID stop them, but Dee Ffffooo...oh motherfucker.

I can’t relive that shit again. Not today

[htismaqe]

Technically we DID stop them, but Dee Ffffooo...oh motherfucker.

I can’t relive that shit again. Not today

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FSKkbK3VNyDIbu%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

[PAChiefsGuy]

Willingness to overlook those things doesn't mean they don't exist. LOL

That's true but I'm willing to bet most if not all posters on here have done things they regret while they were drunk and have lied before. So lets not act all high and mighty here.

I wish Hunt nothing but the best. He was a hell of a player, well liked and as Kelce said his teammates all miss him.

[htismaqe]

That's true but I'm willing to bet most if not all posters on here have done things they regret while they were drunk and have lied before. So lets not act all high and mighty here.

I wish Hunt nothing but the best. He was a hell of a player, well liked and as Kelce said his teammates all miss him.

I've never lied to my employer, nope. Not once in almost 30 years of being a professional. I've also never assaulted not one but at least 3 different people and lied about it to my employer, either.

[Oxford]

The media doesn't us correct grammar in 2019. Except for maybe Brooke Pryor and her use of commas...she's passionate about commas, brah.

comma, comma, comma, comma, comma chameleon, you come and go, you co and go............

[jaa1025]

Everyone that researched Spags should have known there will be a learning curve for this defense. The year that they destroyed Brady in the SB Spags defense started out horrid but became dominant by the end of the season. Patience. It will all improve.

[BWillie]

It's a problem because it shortens the game. Which happened yesterday and Mahomes looked human for 3/4 of the game. If you give up that many yards on the ground and turn it over against the Patriots in the post season we'll lose.

There were good things to take away from yesterday dont get me wrong but it was nice to see where our weaknesses are. Detriot is a playoff team BTW.

It's really only a weakness if you get down early to a team. Which is what happened against the Pats. And that doesn't happen much to this team very often because they have a historical offense.

[O.city]

Chiefs defensive DVOA is 18, so about middle of the pack. If they can keep that, I think they'll be fine.

[TEX]

Chiefs defensive DVOA is 18, so about middle of the pack. If they can keep that, I think they'll be fine.

Good point.

[Hammock Parties]

It's like we're playing Jamaal Charles every week.

And Charles never won shit.

Chiefs got this. They have the formula.

[O.city]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Chiefs run D has given up 5.9 YPC.<br><br>In JUST the 8 drives to start the half this year, they&#39;ve allowed 7.24 YPC and 51% of their rushing total.<br><br>The other 80% of the drives? 4.5 YPC.<br><br>We drop these stats and more every week on the AP Lab!<a href="https://t.co/uxw1T7BLJx">https://t.co/uxw1T7BLJx</a></p>&mdash; Craig Stout (@barleyhop) <a href="https://twitter.com/barleyhop/status/1179411491574964224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 2, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I have no clue where or how to interpret this. Does it mean they're better than we think? Worse? I dunno.

[RunKC]

It means Spags is adjusting and it’s working. Need to quit starting so poorly though.

[PAChiefsGuy]

I've never lied to my employer, nope. Not once in almost 30 years of being a professional. I've also never assaulted not one but at least 3 different people and lied about it to my employer, either.

Have you ever been called a ****er by a girl when you were drunk? Did you have a job as an NFL RB with millions of dollars on the line when asked about an incident? Did you grow up in the same environment as Kareem Hunt did? I'm willing to bet you didn't, so don't be so quick to judge.

It's like we're playing Jamaal Charles every week.

And Charles never won shit.

Chiefs got this. They have the formula.

We shall see. So far so good but you go against a team like the Pats and have a bad run D it's not a good recipe. They can chew the clock up and keep Mahomes off the field and kill us w play action passes. Hopefully the run D improves as year goes on still a lot of football left to be played.

[dlphg9]

So yeah the rush D has been historically bad, but overall the D has been better since last year. Last year ranks 1st, this year ranks 2nd

Points allowed - 24/19
Yds - 31/30
Yards per play - 25/30
Turnovers -9/16
1stdowns allowed - 32/31. Yeah one spot wouldn't seem like that big of an upgrade, but last year we allowed 419 1st downs, the next closest had 377. That's a difference of 42. The differencde between 31st and 23rd was 40 1st downs. So just being 31st is a massive difference from last year.
Pass YDs Allowed - 31/21
Pass TDs - 22/19
Rush YDs Allowed - 27/31
Rush TDs - 29/T-19

So of the most important stats PA, TO, and 1st downs allowed we have seen a nice improvement in all of those besides turnovers. We will be fine.

[rabblerouser]

We held the ball less than 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

It was like a slow bloodletting.

ANYONE who thinks that the run defense isn't a problem is a buttfucking moron.

We just got our asses handed to us by the fucking Colts with Jacoby Brissett.

And the way they did it to us?

RAN THE FUCKING BALL AND KEPT MAHOMES OFF THE FIELD.

DUMBASSES.

[rabblerouser]

It means Spags is adjusting and it’s working. Need to quit starting so poorly though.

**** THAT SPAGGOT.

HE SUCKS.

Where were his adjustments tonight?

HE'S WORSE THAN BOB SUTTON.

[rabblerouser]

We shall see. So far so good but you go against a team like the Pats and have a bad run D it's not a good recipe. They can chew the clock up and keep Mahomes off the field and kill us w play action passes. Hopefully the run D improves as year goes on still a lot of football left to be played.
or the Colts.

At home.

We won't make it past the wildcard round like this.