Remember last year when we thought the defense couldn't get worse?

[treeguy27]

Here we are...

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Who is we? Said it all offseason.

[-King-]

Sutton > Spags
Houston > Clark
Ford > Clark

[Why Not?]

Yep. Andy went out and hired his other buddy who is just as clueless.

[hawkchief]

Other than Chris Jones the personnel is simply awful.

[Trent Green GOAT]

At least we had a pass rush last year.

[chiefsfan15]

Doesn’t matter who is coaching these gutless wonders

[JakeF]

Switching Houston/Ford/1st rd pk/2nd rd pk for Frank Clark/okafor/ogbah was a monumentally stupid decision.

[mnchiefsguy]

Not sure the defense is any worse...but it sure hell as not been any better the past 3 weeks.

[ILChief]

They're a different kind of suck

[Boon]

In a top - down organization, top man should take the fall. Bye Veach.

[44yearsandcounting]

What would be refreshingly novel is for CHunt to step in and put his boot in Andy’s ass. No more butt-buddy hires. Make a change in season at D coordinator, O line coach. Before you laugh, make a case for how either of those units are going to improve staying the course? 6 games is enough to identify what’s working or not working. Send a ****ing message.

[tk13]

I've always said you should never say that.

People said the defense couldn't get worse after Greg Robinson, and they did.

They said it couldn't get worse than Cassel, and then we started Palko.

Now they're going to say it couldn't get worse after Sutton... and it looks like that. It looks like last year's defense even more neutered because we don't have a pass rush.

[kcclone]

I've heard from someone close to the team that Frank Clark is high 100% of the time. A lot of these guys are.

Maybe that's just the state of the modern day NFL/black athlete, but it doesn't sit well with me.

Regardless, we've hired Andy's yes-man unemployed buddy from the past. We have not addressed CB with anything but other team's trash. We haven't drafted anything defensively in the last 3 years besides Thornhill.

It shouldn't be shocking that we suck on D.

[comochiefsfan]

The Frank Clark trade is just a franchise crusher.

You can’t give up that much draft capital AND that much cap space for a guy who doesn’t contribute at all.

We are handcuffed for years because of that trade.

It’s absolutely devastating.

[ThaVirus]

I've heard from someone close to the team that Frank Clark is high 100% of the time. A lot of these guys are.

Maybe that's just the state of the modern day NFL/black athlete, but it doesn't sit well with me.

You're a fucking idiot.

[In58men]

The Frank Clark trade is just a franchise crusher.

You can’t give up that much draft capital AND that much cap space for a guy who doesn’t contribute at all.

We are handcuffed for years because of that trade.

It’s absolutely devastating.

Yep, he’s the worse player on defense by far and it’s not even close

[Imon Yourside]

It's about the same we're just missing Houston, Ford and Jones. Our GM has done an absolutely atrocious job of stocking up the players. Letting Houston go in favor of Clark was an atrocious move.

[treeguy27]

Not sure the defense is any worse...but it sure hell as not been any better the past 3 weeks.

Oh they're worse. This years defense has figured out how to still not get any stops, AND keep our offense off the field for 2/3's of the game.

[Beethoven]

The Frank Clark trade is as bad as the one the Colts did with Trent Richardson.

[FloridaMan88]

Atlanta and their Senior (Citizen) Assistant, Bob Sutton gave up 50+ points to Houston last week.

[DRM08]

In a top - down organization, top man should take the fall. Bye Veach.

Team was built by Reid. Veach answers to Reid. Both of them should be canned.

[FringeNC]

Yep, it's worse and we burned cap space and draft picks in the process and didn't bother with O-line depth.

[-King-]

I've heard from someone close to the team that Frank Clark is high 100% of the time. A lot of these guys are.

Maybe that's just the state of the modern day NFL/black athlete, but it doesn't sit well with me.

Regardless, we've hired Andy's yes-man unemployed buddy from the past. We have not addressed CB with anything but other team's trash. We haven't drafted anything defensively in the last 3 years besides Thornhill.

It shouldn't be shocking that we suck on D.

What the fuck is going on here?

[Easy 6]

They're a different kind of suck

.

[Chiefspants]

I've heard from someone close to the team that Frank Clark is high 100% of the time. A lot of these guys are.

Maybe that's just the state of the modern day NFL/black athlete, but it doesn't sit well with me.


Get the **** outta here with that racist bull****.

[ModSocks]

I vividly remember telling everyone in the offseason that on paper, this defense is worse. And that yes, you motherfuckers who think it couldn't get worse were delusional.

I argued over and over again that gutting out pass rush, the only thing this D did well, was dumb.

So ya'll can take your "oh you're just being negative" and shove it up your ass.

[Deberg_1990]

So we miss Dee Ford and Justin Houston?

[FloridaMan88]

Veach blew up last year’s defense which was the right decision but seemed to have no apparent plan for how to rebuild it.

[rabblerouser]

In a top - down organization, top man should take the fall. Bye Veach.

Veach answers to Reid.

This is Reid's mess.

[rabblerouser]

So we miss Dee Ford and Justin Houston?

Fuck, I miss Bob Sutton.

[FringeNC]

Veach blew up last year’s defense which was the right decision but seemed to have no apparent plan for how to rebuild it.

Yep. And typically when you blow up a defense, you go young -- you don't trade draft picks away for cap-draining vets. Nobody could have anticipated just how bad Frank Clark is, but you don't go after guys like that for a rebuild.

[treeguy27]

Yep. And typically when you blow up a defense, you go young -- you don't trade draft picks away for cap-draining vets. Nobody could have anticipated just how bad Frank Clark is, but you don't go after guys like that for a rebuild.

Not defending Veach at all, but most people around here were unanimously defending the idea of going all in for the SuperBowl this year. Which means picking up free agents and not waiting for draft picks to develop. Unfortunately that hasn't panned out so far. It looks like we'll be going for a longer term rebuild after this year.

[ThaVirus]

Veach blew up last year’s defense which was the right decision but seemed to have no apparent plan for how to rebuild it.

At this point I'm not convinced.

We were one play away from the Super Bowl. Last year's defense clearly wasn't good enough, but you don't blow up a near-Super Bowl roster. We needed a retooling, not a full on rebuild.

How much better does this defense look if we keep Houston, trade Ford, never trade for Clark, go after Clowney and burn that 1st rounder we traded for Clark on a CB or LB?

[Chiefspants]

So we miss Dee Ford and Justin Houston?

I miss Justin Houston

[WhiteWhale]

I thought that until we made mostly lateral moves and hired a DC with a history of finishing in the bottom 5.

i was worried this would happen. It wasn't a popular opinion 3 months ago, but it sure as shit was right.

I was right. Spags IS a worse coach than Sutton. Which is why he finished in the bottom 5 more often.

The problem is we're going to have to deal with 3-4 years of excuses while the defense continues to suck.

[New World Order]

At least we had a pass rush with last year's shit show.

[Otter]

I cringe every time I read on CP when a poster says "well, it can't get any worse".

[tk13]

At this point I'm not convinced.

We were one play away from the Super Bowl. Last year's defense clearly wasn't good enough, but you don't blow up a near-Super Bowl roster. We needed a retooling, not a full on rebuild.

How much better does this defense look if we keep Houston, trade Ford, never trade for Clark, go after Clowney and burn that 1st rounder we traded for Clark on a CB or LB?

I don't know if that's the answer, but it's kind of why I was lukewarm on the Ramsey thing. You just can't keep trading 1st round draft picks away.

[WhiteWhale]

The Frank Clark trade is as bad as the one the Colts did with Trent Richardson.

No, because Trent Richardson was never a good player in the NFL. Clark was.

[notorious]

I miss Justin Houston

Our defense missed him in big games, too.

[Chiefspants]

Our defense missed him in big games, too.

Eh, that was always overblown by Chiefs fans. The majority of the criticism at Houston was that he missed games in each of the past two years. With that said, he was always a difference maker when he was on the field - and we need that right now.

Does Frank Clark get the strip-sack against Baltimore that ended up locking us in for home-field advantage last year?

What about the 2 sacks, fumble recovery, and knockdown against the Colts in the playoffs?

He also had game-changing plays against the Cardinals, a crucial sack against Denver in Denver last year, 2 sacks against the Chargers in Arrowhead (another big game, despite the loss), and averaged almost a sack a game last year.

I miss him. Sure, he cost a lot of money - but we took someone who was giving us production and took a gamble that someone could, at best, replicate that production.

It's been a disaster. Great work by R&V.

[Hammock Parties]

sometimes we have to take a step backwards before we can take a step forwards

[TEX]

sometimes we have to take a step backwards before we can take a step forwards

Not if you fall off a cliff.

[Chris Meck]

Blowing up last year's defense and not committing to Ford long term was the right move.

Not paying Houston $22 million to play this year was also the right move.

Unfortunately, replacing talent does not seem to have gone well.

The largest problem is DT. Jones is a disruptor in the pass rush, but is still undisciplined in run defense. Nobody else seems good at either. Nnadi is about the best we've got, and he's real average.

The second biggest problem is LB. ALL are terrible tacklers and don't shed blocks AT ALL.

Clark is not the worst player on this defense, but he's paid to be the best and thus far is not even close to earning that paycheck. He's been Ogbah, basically.

Safety play has been generally pretty good; Honey Badger is his usual self. Thornhill makes some rookie mistakes, but also makes some nice plays and is a pretty good tackler. I can see Thornhill becoming a really good player.

CB play has been uneven; I would say overall they're better there than last year.

I don't think the sky has fallen exactly, but it's clear to me what the glaring weaknesses are. Defensively, we need a couple of big, nasty, run stuffing Defensive tackles. We need a couple of hard nosed, fly-to-the-ball linebackers.

Offensively, we mostly need to get healthy. We can put up numbers with either Hill or Watkins but not without both, not with this offensive line.

Which is the glaring weakness of this offense: The offensive line when healthy is barely good enough. Any injuries, and it's ****ed. They really, really miss Fisher. Erving is terrible. LG is a black hole. Reiter is < Morse, although I understand why they let Morse go after so many concussions.I'd say he's slightly below average. Doc is average, and Shwartz is a plus player.

This offseason needs to be the year of the fatty. We desperately need to rebuild the trenches.

We don't control the line of scrimmage, even on the days when we hang 40 on people. That problem has come home to roost.

[Iconic]

I miss Justin Houston

x100

houston >>>> clark any ****ing day of the week even if houston only plays half a season

[Chiefspants]

sometimes we have to take a step backwards before we can take a step forwards

Let's assume you're right and Spags avoids continually putting a bottom 5 defense on the field as he has several times over in his career. By the time the defense is fixed, the offense's window will be closing fast.

Kelce isn't getting any younger (and teams have begun mugging him Gronk style), and the line will need replacements chosen by a top brass who has a questionable history of scouting offensive lineman.

The Chiefs were an offsides penalty away from a super-bowl last year. To go from that to re-building one side of your team while your team has a 3 year window in its current incarnation is, at best, a questionable decision.

[BWillie]

I think the defensive scheme is better - but I'm not sure why everyone blamed Dee Ford and Justin Houston for our bad defense. They did their part last year, but our scheme was so bad our defense overall was still bad.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I got barbecued for saying that Spags was a shitty D-coordinator based upon his numerous recent failures, but too many people were viewing everything through the Arrowhead filter to look at him objectively. Same thing for the Clark acquisition.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

CBS happened to get some footage of Bob Sutton leaving Arrowhead after today's game.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/l0MYyEsjhIXdzv9PG/200.webp?cid=790b7611dee163aeb38ebfb329e54ae71a5d416600f9da2a&rid=200.webp

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Watching Ford harass Goff is depressing.

We threw away possibly the best pass rusher in the league and now have zero pass rush.

[iDeaL]

What would be refreshingly novel is for CHunt to step in and put his boot in Andy’s ass. No more butt-buddy hires. Make a change in season at D coordinator, O line coach. Before you laugh, make a case for how either of those units are going to improve staying the course? 6 games is enough to identify what’s working or not working. Send a ****ing message.

CHunt doesn't know what he's doing either.. he just sits back and counts the money. So who exactly do you think he would hire?

[arrwheader]

I got barbecued for saying that Spags was a shitty D-coordinator based upon his numerous recent failures, but too many people were viewing everything through the Arrowhead filter to look at him objectively. Same thing for the Clark acquisition.Meh didn't like the hire either but had to see how it went. Pretty much is what it is. We are losers always will be. Finding a way to be a loser with a generational qb is another level of suck

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Chiefspants]

CHunt doesn't know what he's doing either.. he just sits back and counts the money. So who exactly do you think he would hire?

I disagree with this. Clark has been way more involved than his Dad and had the stones to fire a GM who witnessed a real human tragedy right in front of his eyes (the second GM he canned - how willing was Lamar to cut bait like that again?). Clark isn't the problem. He's done everything we could ask for from an owner.

[ChiTown]

So, here we are, wasting year 2 of Patrick Mahomes because we have no fucking idea how to assemble a D, and have zero OL depth. Our front office is awful.

Sorry, not sorry

[dannybcaitlyn]

Yep. Andy went out and hired his other buddy who is just as clueless.

This right here! Andy totally fucked this up and you can bet your ass Spags gave a lot of input to Veach on defensive players to bring in!!

[Megatron96]

Watching Ford harass Goff is depressing.

We threw away possibly the best pass rusher in the league and now have zero pass rush.

No. Not even close. And I liked Ford, but he's always been a one move wonder, and he disappeared against better OLs. And forget playing the run. Or doing anything remotely right in coverage.

Eventually the Chiefs will get their pass rush sorted out, either by getting healthy, or scheme, or changes in personnel. Or a combination of all of the above.

Dee Ford will never be more than a one move wonder.

[kcclone]

So, here we are, wasting year 2 of Patrick Mahomes because we have no ****ing idea how to assemble a D, and have zero OL depth. Our front office is awful.

Sorry, not sorry


Yep. You have to figure you have approximately 16 seasons of Mahomes (new rules help extend career of QB, could be more, could be less), but if we keep screwing up the D and OL, less is a real possibility.

We're in year 2 (3 technically but he's pretty young and didn't take any hits his first year). This season looks like it's trending ugly, so essentially we're 1/8th of the way through his career with no SB to show for it.

If we don't start drafting better, we're not going to be able to surround him with what he'll need to win it all. He's about to be 10x more expensive than what he is now. That money will have to come from somewhere. Most likely it means you have a more average unit of offensive skill players.

We around 1-2 more years to get this right, or we will be way behind the 8-ball when we're deep into his second contract.

[rabblerouser]

I think the defensive scheme is better - but I'm not sure why everyone blamed Dee Ford and Justin Houston for our bad defense. They did their part last year, but our scheme was so bad our defense overall was still bad.

Really? REALLY!? What the fuck do YOU know about "scheme"? Our defense last year was less predictable than this horseshit by Spaggot. No pressure, no man, no press...it's all soft zones and bullshit. No adjustments.

Watching this mess makes me wish we kept Sutton.

[kcclone]

Last year's D sucked, but we at least occasionally sacked the QB to stop a drive.

Coverage maybe looks a little better, but so far run D is the same or worse and our pass rush is significantly worse.

[chiefzilla1501]

The sad thing is that Houston dropped a few passes in the end zone. And Watson overthrew a few clear shots to the end zone. Don't even want to imagine how much worse this could have been for our defense.

[scho63]

The inability of our players to fill a single gap and let the opposing RB's gain 5-6 yards before contact is thickening!