The PI call that the refs voluntarily overturned

[bobbything]

You know, the one on Mahomes’ interception. The refs called pass interference, announced the call, and then huddled together and voluntarily overturned their own call after they announced it.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. Someone explain how that happens without a challenge.

[notorious]

We got fucked. That's what happened.

[TLO]

Because we are the Chiefs

[rabblerouser]

That's how the NFL is ______.

[WhiteWhale]

I don't want to make excuses, but the officiating was horse-shit. Every penalty on the texans was a procedural penalty.

Most of KC"s flags were judgement calls.

Kelce was held on every play (including the one in question) and it didn't garner 1 flag. KC had 3 defensive holding penalties where the DB barely made any contact and certainly did not hold. All just HAPPENED to be on 3rd down. What a coincidence.

Even with that going against them, the main reason KC lost was Andy ****ing Reid. He's gone full Andy and I dunno when he's going to come back to earth. Every time KC has these kinds of issues it's always the same reason. Eagles fans told us before he got here. He does this shit.

[rabblerouser]

I don't want to make excuses, but the officiating was horse-shit. Every penalty on the texans was a procedural penalty.

Most of KC"s flags were judgement calls.

Kelce was held on every play (including the one in question) and it didn't garner 1 flag. KC had 3 defensive holding penalties where the DB barely made any contact and certainly did not hold. All just HAPPENED to be on 3rd down. What a coincidence.

Even with that going against them, the main reason KC lost was Andy ****ing Reid. He's gone full Andy and I dunno when he's going to come back to earth. Every time KC has these kinds of issues it's always the same reason. Eagles fans told us before he got here. He does this shit.

All of this.

[Garcia Bronco]

You know, the one on Mahomes’ interception. The refs called pass interference, announced the call, and then huddled together and voluntarily overturned their own call after they announced it.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. Someone explain how that happens without a challenge.

Because the ball was already in the air and the pass wasn't to Kelsey. Ergo pass interference is impossible. That's more of an embarrassment that one of the referees called it to begin with.

[eDave]

It was the right call. Stupid post.

[bobbything]

Because the ball was already in the air and the pass wasn't to Kelsey. Ergo pass interference is impossible. That's more of an embarrassment that one of the referees called it to begin with.
You’re not understanding my question. I’m asking how a call is made, announced, and marked off, then reversed without a challenge. I’ve never seen that before.

[eDave]

You’re not understanding my question. I’m asking how a call is made, announced, and marked off, then reversed without a challenge. I’ve never seen that before.

Because they got it right. WTF with you?

[bobbything]

It was the right call. Stupid post.

You don’t understand my question. Refs get calls wrong all the time. I’m wondering how the call can be made and announced and then reversed voluntarily. Flags get thrown and then picked up or waved off, but I’ve never seen a call made and announced to the fans only to huddle up afterwards and voluntarily overturn the call on the field.

I’m not arguing that the call was correct.

[ChiefRocka]

Illegal contact

[dannybcaitlyn]

Yup, We got screwed! Should have been illegal contact!

[notorious]

What the refs basically said is that you can destroy a WR unless the ball is thrown to them.

Defensive holding/illegal contact doesn't exist anymore.

[TEX]

JBecause they got it right. WTF with you?

Naw Dipshit. You're over the edge. Been being a real prick in every thread. Take a break and come back when you're through being a jerk.
The OP asked a legitimate question.

[HonestChieffan]

Bullshit to blame on refs. Y ‘all sound like Mizzou fans always on the officials. Chiefs lost, own it. Move on. D is weak. Online is no more than ok

[eDave]

Bullshit to blame on refs. Y ‘all sound like Mizzou fans always on the officials. Chiefs lost, own it. Move on. D is weak. Online is no more than ok

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=14523231&postcount=15

[RealSNR]

What the refs basically said is that you can destroy a WR unless the ball is thrown to them.

Defensive holding/illegal contact doesn't exist anymore.

It does if you're the Chiefs. Then it gets called every time.

Seriously. There's no way we really commit THAT many more penalties than the other team. It seemed like every 3rd down stop we did make was a penalty to these fucking refs.

No, I'm not blaming them for the loss. We lost because of shit coaching, shitty defensive players, and a shitty offensive line.

But the penalties certainly didn't help.

[Bob Dole]

What the refs basically said is that you can destroy a WR unless the ball is thrown to them.

Defensive holding/illegal contact doesn't exist anymore.

All of this.

[bobbything]

Because they got it right. WTF with you?
Why so salty? It’s a legit question that NBC apparently even wrote about...

https://apple.news/A5lb4s6XNR7-9tJhC5nD5aQ

[chiefzilla1501]

And people wonder why kelce is frustrated. The NFL has increased emphasis on PI. And yet kelce is literally getting tackled on pass plays with no call. Reid was absolutely furious and I hope he addresses this with the league somehow. It wasn't just this call. There were several critical plays that missed an obvious hold on kelce.

[dls6501]

Because the ball was already in the air and the pass wasn't to Kelsey. Ergo pass interference is impossible. That's more of an embarrassment that one of the referees called it to begin with.

The ball absolutely was not in the air yet. That's what the announcers said, but it was wrong.

[Why Not?]

And people wonder why kelce is frustrated. The NFL has increased emphasis on PI. And yet kelce is literally getting tackled on pass plays with no call. Reid was absolutely furious and I hope he addresses this with the league somehow. It wasn't just this call. There were several critical plays that missed an obvious hold on kelce.


Reid won’t say shit. Other than “we’ll get it fixed”.

[Gravedigger]

They could’ve easily said “Correction, Holding on the defense. That’s a 5 yard penalty.” Instead they drummed up bullshit saying it doesn’t matter because he wasn’t the person Mahomes was targeting. So by that degree all penalties away from the play shouldn’t count then right??!?

[rabblerouser]

Yup, We got screwed! Should have been illegal contact!

This, and Tony Dungy just said that on NBC FNiA, that the refs got it wrong - they threw the flag, Mahomet saw the flag after Kelce got mugged, and rightly assumed that it was a free play. Dungy says KC got screwed.

[crayzkirk]

Because we are the Chiefs

Close... Because THEY are the Chiefs...

[chiefzilla1501]

Reid won’t say shit. Other than “we’ll get it fixed”.

I don't care what he says in public. I don't know if I've ever seen Reid more animated than this game. And most of the complaints were on kelce holding. He's sick of it and for good reason.

[Iowanian]

I hope every one of that shit rock officiating crew eats some bad chipotle tonight. They deserve every bit of norovisus they can pump into their suckholes.

[modocsot]

What the refs basically said is that you can destroy a WR unless the ball is thrown to them.

Defensive holding/illegal contact doesn't exist anymore.

Exactly. The proper call would’ve given the Chiefs s a 1st down due to obvious defensive holding, which was acknowledged by the refs because they originally called PI. This will get one of those apology letters from the NFL for getting this wrong. A lot of good those do.

[Mahomes_Is_God]

J

Naw Dipshit. You're over the edge. Been being a real prick in every thread. Take a break and come back when you're through being a jerk.
The OP asked a legitimate question.
Agreed, fuck that guy. Been makin me sick all night.

[Johnny Vegas]

There is without a doubt evidence of plays where PI is called when the player wasn’t in the vicinity of the ball. I can hear it now...‘I don’t even know why player A did that because the play wasn’t even near him.’

[KentuckyChief]

Because the ball was already in the air and the pass wasn't to Kelsey. Ergo pass interference is impossible. That's more of an embarrassment that one of the referees called it to begin with.

Maybe I’m wrong but wouldn’t that still be holding?

[SupDock]

They basically overturned it because you cannot call PI on a receiver that is not near the play. Why is this the first I have ever heard of this rule?

I feel like I have seen pass interference called in favor of a WR not near the ball

[stumppy]

I don't understand how a guy on the def can hold or PI and if they make an interception it stands.

[DanT]

Maybe I’m wrong but wouldn’t that still be holding?

No, once the ball is in the air the defender no longer is as restricted in what he can do to an eligible receiver.

You can see from this video that the ball was in the air while Kelce was mauled. https://twitter.com/i/status/1183444585843965952

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (FORWARD PASS, BACKWARD PASS, FUMBLE at https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#rule8 ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

I didn't know this until today, but that Article 7 basically amounts to saying that you can't have what we know as defensive holding on an untargeted receiver if the QB has already released the forward pass.

[Garcia Bronco]

You’re not understanding my question. I’m asking how a call is made, announced, and marked off, then reversed without a challenge. I’ve never seen that before.

Oh that happens like every week in a broncos game. Seriously probably twice this year to the broncos.

[Dartgod]

No, once the ball is in the air the defender no longer is as restricted in what he can do to an eligible receiver.

You can see from this video that the ball was in the air while Kelce was mauled. https://twitter.com/i/status/1183444585843965952

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (FORWARD PASS, BACKWARD PASS, FUMBLE at https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#rule8 ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

I didn't know this until today, but that Article 7 basically amounts to saying that you can't have what we know as defensive holding on an untargeted receiver if the QB has already released the forward pass.

You cannot see what is happening with Kelce right before Mahomes releases the ball. I'd love to see another view, but it sure looked like he was getting mugged before he went out of view.

[kcpasco]

Wow. I’m shocked it’s the Chiefs that have some weird call go against them. I’m sure that same penalty where the officials huddle to fuck over the home team will be consistent. Amiright?

[DanT]

You cannot see what is happening with Kelce right before Mahomes releases the ball. I'd love to see another view, but it sure looked like he was getting mugged before he went out of view.

Yes, it would be good to see a different camera angle. Some of the mugging Kelce received was within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, which the defender is allowed to get away with. But there could have been some illegal contact, although it seems sort of ridiculous for an offense to benefit from a penalty call in that situation, as the QB wasn't throwing at Kelce. A few years ago, I was very close to no longer wanting to watch the NFL, because it had too many bullshit calls going against the defense. Lately, I'm enjoying the games a lot more. Part of that is Mahomes, but part of that is also that the rules are being enforced a little bit more reasonably on passing plays, in my opinion....all except for how pass intereference is supposed to be reviewable but isn't really.

[Dallas Chief]

No, once the ball is in the air the defender no longer is as restricted in what he can do to an eligible receiver.

You can see from this video that the ball was in the air while Kelce was mauled. https://twitter.com/i/status/1183444585843965952

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (FORWARD PASS, BACKWARD PASS, FUMBLE at https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#rule8 ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

I didn't know this until today, but that Article 7 basically amounts to saying that you can't have what we know as defensive holding on an untargeted receiver if the QB has already released the forward pass.

Awesome. That's all very informative. I seriously mean that.

However, how do you reverse an announced call with no mechanism enacted to reverse said call? They get calls wrong all the time, how often do the refs self review in game and reverse calls? Maybe they do and I've just been missing it. This is directed at you DanT, just what's been going through my mind all afternoon/evening. Seems like extreme bullshit to me.

[SupDock]

Awesome. That's all very informative. I seriously mean that.

However, how do you reverse an announced call with no mechanism enacted to reverse said call? They get calls wrong all the time, how often do the refs self review in game and reverse calls? Maybe they do and I've just been missing it. This is directed at you DanT, just what's been going through my mind all afternoon/evening. Seems like extreme bullshit to me.

Exactly. Huddle, announce the call, then reverse the call without ever having a formal review

[chiefzilla1501]

You cannot see what is happening with Kelce right before Mahomes releases the ball. I'd love to see another view, but it sure looked like he was getting mugged before he went out of view.

He was getting mauled. Maybe you could argue within the 5 yards but way enough for mahomes to see that then the flag and believe that's what was being called.

That's total horseshit on the refs and the NFL should call it out. Regardless of right or wrong, you can't give the qb a free play then pick the flag up.

[InChiefsHeaven]

When Dungy on NBC calls it out at a bullshit call, and that it should have been defensive holding, 5 yards, 1st down Chiefs...I'm sorry but I think it was indeed what we thought it was during the game...notice they did not show when the ball was released on the broadcast...Kelce was already being held, that's why Mahomes threw it up, he figured he had a free play. You could tell both he and Reid were arguing that by reading their lips.

Whatever. It was a drive killer, and the Chiefs were already struggling. Having the refs throw a flag and the pick it up the way they did...fucking unreal bullshit.

[lcarus]

Then it wasn't 2 god damn plays later and they call a phantom holding on Breeland.

Not that the fuckers didn't hold on several other plays for real, but the one on 3rd down when Watson ran and got tackled 1 or 2 yards short they called holding on Breeland and he didn't even touch the guy. The refs ruin the game. I'm sure there were several calls on them that were BS too. They just suck all around. I don't watch the sport to see the Shawn fucking Hochuli Show. Just because he was born with the silver flag up his ass.

[DanT]

Awesome. That's all very informative. I seriously mean that.

However, how do you reverse an announced call with no mechanism enacted to reverse said call? They get calls wrong all the time, how often do the refs self review in game and reverse calls? Maybe they do and I've just been missing it. This is directed at you DanT, just what's been going through my mind all afternoon/evening. Seems like extreme bullshit to me.

Lately in both baseball and football, there has been a big emphasis on officials getting calls right and I've become accustomed to seeing umpires in baseball and officials in football correcting ridiculous calls. In this instance, a penalty was called on Kelce, who was not the targeted receiver. The call was announced to the fans, but one or more of the officials must have realized that it did not make any sense, as there was no way the call could be considered pass intereference and, it turns out, there is no way that the action that drew the flag, the grounding of Kelce, could be flagged because the ball was flying over his head when Kelce was hitting the ground.

It was simply a bad call, which the officials corrected. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it has been working lately in sports. I've seen more calls be corrected by officiating crews on their own initiative in the past 10 years than I ever saw in the 30 to 40 years before then. I have zero problem with them doing that, fixing stupid calls.

I want the Chiefs to beat other teams. We weren't the better team today. The officials didn't have shit to do with that.

[DanT]

He was getting mauled. Maybe you could argue within the 5 yards but way enough for mahomes to see that then the flag and believe that's what was being called.

That's total horseshit on the refs and the NFL should call it out. Regardless of right or wrong, you can't give the qb a free play then pick the flag up.

One of my top 100 favorite things about Mahomes, the best player I've ever seen, is that he will try to take advantage of calls against the defense, but there is no fuckin' law that the refs are supposed to call any and every foul on the defense. A QB should not assume that it's a risk-free decision to try to get a free downfield shot just because a tight end got mugged by someone way the fuck smaller than the tight end.

[Tombstone RJ]

the refs suck, even with replay they get the calls wrong. even with replay.

[kcpasco]

the refs suck, even with replay they get the calls wrong. even with replay.

I will positive rep you death. Even being a dirty donk.

[rabblerouser]

One of my top 100 favorite things about Mahomes, the best player I've ever seen, is that he will try to take advantage of calls against the defense, but there is no ****in' law that the refs are supposed to call any and every foul on the defense. A QB should not assume that it's a risk-free decision to try to get a free downfield shot just because a tight end got mugged by someone way the **** smaller than the tight end.
Even if the refs actually throw the flag and call the penalty?

[highBOLTage]

You know, the one on Mahomes’ interception. The refs called pass interference, announced the call, and then huddled together and voluntarily overturned their own call after they announced it.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. Someone explain how that happens without a challenge.

Pretty common. Just happened in steelers game.

[rabblerouser]

Lately in both baseball and football, there has been a big emphasis on officials getting calls right and I've become accustomed to seeing umpires in baseball and officials in football correcting ridiculous calls. In this instance, a penalty was called on Kelce, who was not the targeted receiver. The call was announced to the fans, but one or more of the officials must have realized that it did not make any sense, as there was no way the call could be considered pass intereference and, it turns out, there is no way that the action that drew the flag, the grounding of Kelce, could be flagged because the ball was flying over his head when Kelce was hitting the ground.

It was simply a bad call, which the officials corrected. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it has been working lately in sports. I've seen more calls be corrected by officiating crews on their own initiative in the past 10 years than I ever saw in the 30 to 40 years before then. I have zero problem with them doing that, fixing stupid calls.

I want the Chiefs to beat other teams. We weren't the better team today. The officials didn't have shit to do with that.

right, it's called 'illegal contact', and it's a 5 yd penalty + automatic 1st down.

Unless they've made it legal to tackle receivers as long they're not the target and I missed it.

[mr. tegu]

It was a terrible pass regardless.

[bobbything]

Pretty common. Just happened in steelers game.
They threw a flag, got together, announced the penalty, had the team accept the penalty, then huddled up after all that and reversed the call?

[chiefzilla1501]

It was a terrible pass regardless.

It was a terrible pass because mahomes thought it was a free play. That's the part that makes the refs actions bullshit. If you give the qb every indication it's a free play, then refs should own their mistake.

[rabblerouser]

They threw a flag, got together, announced the penalty, had the team accept the penalty, then huddled up after all that and reversed the call?

That did NOT happen in the Steelers game.

[rabblerouser]

It was a terrible pass because mahomes thought it was a free play. That's the part that makes the refs actions bullshit. If you give the qb every indication it's a free play, then refs should own their mistake.

EXACTLY.

[kcpasco]

Seriously fuck that call, I wish Aids upon whoever was involved. Coughing up blood and crying for help. Yes I’m a POS.

[highBOLTage]

They threw a flag, got together, announced the penalty, had the team accept the penalty, then huddled up after all that and reversed the call?

They announced a change of possession. Said "first down pittsburgh," huddled up, threw a flag, and changed possession. Changing a call after it is announced is not uncommon.

[bobbything]

They announced a change of possession. Said "first down pittsburgh," huddled up, threw a flag, and changed possession. Changing a call after it is announced is not uncommon.

I can’t envision what you’re trying to describe but it doesn’t sound anything like what I’m talking about.

[KCTitus]

This call was a game changing call...a complete game changer.. If KC is allowed to continue, they score at this point in the game. That score changes the game.

I firmly believe the NFL is rigged...and IDGAF if that's the case and KC wins a SB...but this league is fucking bullshit and it's rigged.

[petegz28]

This call was a game changing call...a complete game changer.. If KC is allowed to continue, they score at this point in the game. That score changes the game.

I firmly believe the NFL is rigged...and IDGAF if that's the case and KC wins a SB...but this league is ****ing bullshit and it's rigged.

Refs have been up our ass the last 2 weeks with some rather bullshit calls.

[kcpasco]

It’s BS and I hope they die.

[rabblerouser]

This call was a game changing call...a complete game changer.. If KC is allowed to continue, they score at this point in the game. That score changes the game.

I firmly believe the NFL is rigged...and IDGAF if that's the case and KC wins a SB...but this league is ****ing bullshit and it's rigged.
Absolutely 100% accurate.

Between that egregious no-call on illegal contact the resulted in the interception while we were in FG range and the bullshit "forward progress" on Ward's fumble return for a TD, we were looking at either being up 27-9 or 31-9 in the early 2nd quarter.

Can't have that for the game being shown in 95% of the nation's TV markets...

[Marcellus]

The league is saying as soon as the ball is in the air its ok to tackle any player not the target of the pass.

[rabblerouser]

The league is saying as soon as the ball is in the air its ok to tackle any player not the target of the pass.

Pretty much, but if WE had done that, it would be a flag for illegal contact. And they wouldn't have picked it up...

[WhiteWhale]

Pretty much, but if WE had done that, it would be a flag for illegal contact. And they wouldn't have picked it up...

KC was getting phantom holding calls left and right.

Again... all of the Texan penalties were procedural.

KC's were judgement calls.

All while guys spent the first yards penetrating Kelce's most private of places. Which is obviously within the rules because reasons.

****ing biased and disgraceful.. but KC STILL should have won the game. If Any didn't have his head up his ass. Refs do this shit. You can't rely on them to be competent. You gotta whip ass.

[DanT]

right, it's called 'illegal contact', and it's a 5 yd penalty + automatic 1st down.

Unless they've made it legal to tackle receivers as long they're not the target and I missed it.

Look at the NFL Rule Book. It's not illegal contact to do to a receiver what can be done to other offensive players if at the time that you do it to them the forward pass is already in the air and the ball is not going to that receiver.

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-definition ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

[DanT]

When I played football in junior and senior high, way back in the 1970's and 1980's, it was well known that you can maul offensive players if you were on defense. Getting to use your hands on them was one of the major advantages defenders had. Eligible receivers are afforded some extra protection, but only while they are potentially receivers. Once the ball is in the air, they are just like any other offensive player that the defense can whip.

That's how football is. Saying that Kelce can't be tackled if a ball is flying over his head is, to me, like listening to Denver Bronco corner backs complain about receivers blocking them downfield. When I hear it, I wonder, how did this person get it in their head that things that are very much part of the game are somehow illegal.

[rabblerouser]

Look at the NFL Rule Book. It's not illegal contact to do to a receiver what can be done to other offensive players if at the time that you do it to them the forward pass is already in the air and the ball is not going to that receiver.

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-definition ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

The ball WASN'T in the air - the reason Mahomes threw that ball into the end zone was because he thought there was a free play, as the foul had already occurred and the flag had been thrown.

THAT'S the rub.

[WhiteWhale]

Look at the NFL Rule Book. It's not illegal contact to do to a receiver what can be done to other offensive players if at the time that you do it to them the forward pass is already in the air and the ball is not going to that receiver.

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-definition ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

Yeah, it's not PASS INTERFERENCE.

Let's not ignore that both holding and illegal contact occurred before the pass was thrown.

Because it REALLY matters. Christ they flubbed the call by calling it PI , but they were mugging Kelce all goddamn game like this and were calling our DB's for a HELLUVA lot less contact before the throw.

[DanT]

The ball WASN'T in the air - the reason Mahomes threw that ball into the end zone was because he thought there was a free play, as the foul had already occurred and the flag had been thrown.

THAT'S the rub.

I don't know when the flag was thrown, because I haven't seen a camera angle that shows me. I would be surprised if there was a flag visible to Mahomes before he threw that ball, though, because that ball was in the air while Kelce was headed to the turf, and I would think that the official who threw it was reacting to Kelce going down, not to the contact before then. (If it had been the contact before then, that official would have certainly told his crew chief that he was calling illegal contact, not pass interference.)

[kcpasco]

Like to get an official explanation of that call but we won’t. I am
bitter because of that call because of no explanation.

[FloridaMan88]

It was a terrible pass regardless.

Mahomes in his postgame press conference said that Kelce was his intended target on that play.

Obviously the pass is going to look bad when your intended target is interfered with and not able to run his route.

[WhiteWhale]

Mahomes in his postgame press conference said that Kelce was his intended target on that play.

Obviously the pass is going to look bad when your intended target is interfered with and not able to run his route.

Yeah. Because of all the holding and illegal contact.

Which, apparently, were only illegal for ONE TEAM on Sunday.

[Mosbonian]

Look at the NFL Rule Book. It's not illegal contact to do to a receiver what can be done to other offensive players if at the time that you do it to them the forward pass is already in the air and the ball is not going to that receiver.

The relevant sections from the NFL Rule Book are under Rule 8 (https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-definition ), Section 4 (LEGAL AND ILLEGAL CONTACT WITH ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS), Articles 6 (Defensive Holding) & 7 (End of Restrictions).

I get this is the rule....but then that makes every receiver for whom the ball is not intended "fair game". So you can tackle them, chuck them out of bounds, absolutely knock the crap out of them or trip them?

[Coogs]

Then it wasn't 2 god damn plays later and they call a phantom holding on Breeland.

Not that the ****ers didn't hold on several other plays for real, but the one on 3rd down when Watson ran and got tackled 1 or 2 yards short they called holding on Breeland and he didn't even touch the guy. The refs ruin the game. I'm sure there were several calls on them that were BS too. They just suck all around. I don't watch the sport to see the Shawn ****ing Hochuli Show. Just because he was born with the silver flag up his ass.

This. I'll bet I have said this at least 10 times the past 2 weeks. The refs are making this game damn near unwatchable.

[Mecca]

The refs have ruined the game, they won't overturn PI calls because they're giving the league the finger on that.

Who here wants to defend DeAndre Hopkins under todays rules? He grabs you, shoves you, pushes, smacks you in the head yet you touch him and flags come out immediately.

[rabblerouser]

Mahomes in his postgame press conference said that Kelce was his intended target on that play.

Obviously the pass is going to look bad when your intended target is interfered with and not able to run his route.

That is a penalty every single time, except when the Chiefs with Mahomes are on the verge of blowing out Houston with Watson in one of the most hyped games of the season...CBS was airing that game to 95% of the country...couldn't have it be 24-9 in the 2nd quarter.

That's the same reason the Ward fumble return for a TD was "blown dead" due to "forward progress", even though the ball was coming out as his forward progress was being stopped...

[TEX]

That is a penalty every single time, except when the Chiefs with Mahomes are on the verge of blowing out Houston with Watson in one of the most hyped games of the season...CBS was airing that game to 95% of the country...couldn't have it be 24-9 in the 2nd quarter..

Exactly the case.

[Mecca]

Exactly the case.

Even if you buy into Mahomes being the future face of the league, it's very much in their interest for Watson to be right there. Houston is a massive market that is important to the NFL.

[bobbything]

Like to get an official explanation of that call but we won’t. I am
bitter because of that call because of no explanation.
We aren’t the only ones who thought the whole thing was weird. As mentioned, I’ve never seen a call like that made, announced, accepted by the team, then just as they’re lining up to snap the ball, officials huddle up and change their mind.

This article says someone, somewhere notified officials that they made the wrong call and that they were to change it.

https://apple.news/AYLZ2_RVXS7m3Mf8U4RJDpA

[lawrenceRaider]

I've seen this scenario happen, but only to the Raiders. If you are going to get Raider officiating, you are officially fawked.

[chiefzilla1501]

One of my top 100 favorite things about Mahomes, the best player I've ever seen, is that he will try to take advantage of calls against the defense, but there is no ****in' law that the refs are supposed to call any and every foul on the defense. A QB should not assume that it's a risk-free decision to try to get a free downfield shot just because a tight end got mugged by someone way the **** smaller than the tight end.

When a qb sees his te get mugged and sees the flag thrown in the area, that's a signal that it's a free play. The qb should absolutely assume that. And it's horseshit for the ref to pull it away at that point.

[Mecca]

They didn't want the game to be over in the first half, shit like that matters.

Travis Kelce also does not get calls, the refs think he's a POS from a few years ago.

[bobbything]

When a qb sees his te get mugged and sees the flag thrown in the area, that's a signal that it's a free play. The qb should absolutely assume that. And it's horseshit for the ref to pull it away at that point.

Hell, I’d even be more okay with it had they thrown the flag, huddled together, then decided to pick up the flag and announce “there is no flag for pass interference.” They do that all the time. What I don’t like is making the call, having the team accept the penalty, respotting the ball, team lining up to snap, then huddling up again after they get a notification to change the call.

If that can happen, then they need someone watching their every move on every single snap and informing them they screwed up every single time. Just have the officials out there to make calls that come from New York, because that’s basically what happened here.*

*Please note that I do not really want this to happen. I want officials to be good at their job.

[CrookedTrump]

And people wonder why kelce is frustrated. The NFL has increased emphasis on PI. And yet kelce is literally getting tackled on pass plays with no call. Reid was absolutely furious and I hope he addresses this with the league somehow. It wasn't just this call. There were several critical plays that missed an obvious hold on kelce.

Kelce now knows how Gronk felt in every play.

[lawrenceRaider]

Kelce now knows how Gronk felt in every play.

Those two guys commit(ed) offensive pass interference on every other play, at the least. They have zero room for comment on anything.

[Nzoner]

They didn't want the game to be over in the first half, shit like that matters.


Especially for 2nd half bets in Vegas.

[rabblerouser]

They didn't want the game to be over in the first half, shit like that matters.



After all "Watson vs Mahomes" hype and putting it as the marquee early matchup in over 90% of the country?

You know it.

[rabblerouser]

Those two guys commit(ed) offensive pass interference on every other play, at the least. They have zero room for comment on anything.

That is high-larious, considering that Kelce gets mugged on every single play.

Hard to commit OPI when you get tackled to the ground.

[FAX]

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183536058144841732

FAX

[rabblerouser]

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183536058144841732

FAX

Thank you, FAX.

[Nzoner]

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183536058144841732

FAX

We know that the league office buzzes in to talk to refs and influence calls. They never tell us about it, but that’s what former refs have said after retirement.

Just two weeks ago Al Michaels eluded to this on SNF when he asked that the booth ref let the audience know the field ref wasn't talking to NY or even Mars.

[New World Order]

I've never witnessed that before and I bet I'll never see it again.

[rabblerouser]

Damn, Florio...got it right?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/14/something-fishy-happened-in-that-texans-chiefs-call/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[rabblerouser]

Just two weeks ago Al Michaels eluded to this on SNF when he asked that the booth ref let the audience know the field ref wasn't talking to NY or even Mars.

Alluded, and eluded. I remember that, and I laughed..."of COURSE he's not listening to NY buzz in on his earpiece. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[rabblerouser]

Yes, it would be good to see a different camera angle. Some of the mugging Kelce received was within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, which the defender is allowed to get away with. But there could have been some illegal contact, although it seems sort of ridiculous for an offense to benefit from a penalty call in that situation, as the QB wasn't throwing at Kelce. A few years ago, I was very close to no longer wanting to watch the NFL, because it had too many bullshit calls going against the defense. Lately, I'm enjoying the games a lot more. Part of that is Mahomes, but part of that is also that the rules are being enforced a little bit more reasonably on passing plays, in my opinion....all except for how pass intereference is supposed to be reviewable but isn't really.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CooperSmithing/status/1183753921669431296

Kelce was tackled before the ball was thrown; in the televised angle, he was GETTING BACK UP as the ball was being thrown.

For the record. Click the link and see for yourself.

[Redbled]

Why so salty? It’s a legit question that NBC apparently even wrote about...

https://apple.news/A5lb4s6XNR7-9tJhC5nD5aQ

I thought the exact same thing at the time. It appeared the hold happened when Mahomes still would have had the ball. A penalty should have been called regardless and it was a huge factor in the loss as was the holding call on Breeland.

[Redbled]

They could’ve easily said “Correction, Holding on the defense. That’s a 5 yard penalty.” Instead they drummed up bullshit saying it doesn’t matter because he wasn’t the person Mahomes was targeting. So by that degree all penalties away from the play shouldn’t count then right??!?

I fully expected the announcement to be that the call was changed to holding.

[rabblerouser]

Should've been 27-9 at the half, if not 31-9.

Got jobbed by the NFL and the NY officials talking in the ref's ear...

[Redbled]

I don't know when the flag was thrown, because I haven't seen a camera angle that shows me. I would be surprised if there was a flag visible to Mahomes before he threw that ball, though, because that ball was in the air while Kelce was headed to the turf, and I would think that the official who threw it was reacting to Kelce going down, not to the contact before then. (If it had been the contact before then, that official would have certainly told his crew chief that he was calling illegal contact, not pass interference.)

Ya I don’t buy that Mahomes knew either. Bad throw regardless but the refs blew it big time.

[DanT]

https://mobile.twitter.com/CooperSmithing/status/1183753921669431296

Kelce was tackled before the ball was thrown; in the televised angle, he was GETTING BACK UP as the ball was being thrown.

For the record. Click the link and see for yourself.
Thanks for that link, rabblerouser. It looks from that angle that Mahomes may have been able to see illegal contact, but that would be based on him guessing that the refs would call it. Kelce and the defender began their tango within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage and I don't see a flag that was visible to Mahomes before he threw a pass that was not aimed at Kelce. Mahomes is the best QB I have ever seen. He is good at guessing what might be called. But here I think that is what he did. If he did indeed see a flag and that caused him to take a shot downfield, then that would be a big issue. But I still don't know from the views I have seen whether a flag was visible to Mahomes or was Mahomes just guessing that there would be a flag.

[theCATALYST]

The right call was made. You can't expect a flag every time Kelce decides to run directly at a defender, grab him and push him backwards before flopping on the turf as if he is the victim.

[Mosbonian]

I see we have a Texan fan sneaking in.

[Mosbonian]

So I will ask again. Based on the rule interpretation every eligible receiver who isn't the intended receiver can literally be abused once the ball is in the air?

[rabblerouser]

The right call was made. You can't expect a flag every time Kelce decides to run directly at a defender, grab him and push him backwards before flopping on the turf as if he is the victim.

Wow. You'd be right, if that had actually been what happened, TexansFan.

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183735590606528512?s=20

[rabblerouser]

So I will ask again. Based on the rule interpretation every eligible receiver who isn't the intended receiver can literally be abused once the ball is in the air?

Yes.

Problem is, Kelce was on the ground before the ball was thrown. He was getting back up after being tackled when the ball was thrown.

[FAX]

So I will ask again. Based on the rule interpretation every eligible receiver who isn't the intended receiver can literally be abused once the ball is in the air?

Not according to the rules. Or, I might add, based upon precedent.

Let's enter the Wayback Machine with Sherman and recall how many times the Chiefs have suffered a DPI call AWAY FROM THE PLAY. I can think of a dozen or more without even googling up stuff or conducting an internet search.

FAX

[Mecca]

So I will ask again. Based on the rule interpretation every eligible receiver who isn't the intended receiver can literally be abused once the ball is in the air?

What should have happened, was after the ref said that. Anytime Watson dropped back and the ball went somewhere else the CB should have chopped Hopkins knees out.

And said hey just going on what you said the rule is...matter of fact the whole team should have done it.

[wazu]

Warren Sharp is still all over this call.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is video of the official listening extra close to someone talking to him in his ear, and then the call being reversed to a Mahomes interception. <a href="https://t.co/2lvsCQYQAX">pic.twitter.com/2lvsCQYQAX</a></p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183735590606528512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2019</a></blockquote>

[wazu]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As to whether the ball was in air:<br><br>8:48 he starts delivery. A split second later, still 8:48, ball well out.<br><br>Cam pans at 8:47 &amp; Kelce is flat on his back.<br><br>2nd angle shows contact @ 31, thrown @ 26, lands 22.<br><br>We’re pretending Mahomes can’t see the start of that &amp; take a shot? <a href="https://t.co/Io07uHWSjy">pic.twitter.com/Io07uHWSjy</a></p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183738962084552704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[kcpasco]

It was a blatant rape job. Didn’t even get the courtesy of a reach around first.

[notorious]

Rigged as it always has been.

Blowout was about to happen and somebody intervened.

[rabblerouser]

Rigged as it always has been.

Blowout was about to happen and somebody intervened.

You know it.

[Garcia Bronco]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As to whether the ball was in air:<br><br>8:48 he starts delivery. A split second later, still 8:48, ball well out.<br><br>Cam pans at 8:47 &amp; Kelce is flat on his back.<br><br>2nd angle shows contact @ 31, thrown @ 26, lands 22.<br><br>We’re pretending Mahomes can’t see the start of that &amp; take a shot? <a href="https://t.co/Io07uHWSjy">pic.twitter.com/Io07uHWSjy</a></p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183738962084552704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It wasn't even holding since Kelsey fell down on his own. WTF are you guys complaining about? Nothing should have been called. Mahones throw his first INT in week 6. You guys are doing pretty fucking good.

[ScareCrowe]

It wasn't even holding since Kelsey fell down on his own. WTF are you guys complaining about? Nothing should have been called. Mahones throw his first INT in week 6. You guys are doing pretty ****ing good.
The defender literally takes his hand & pushes down on the back of Kelsey's helmet & pushes him down. The only legitimate questions are did the contact take place within the 5 yard zone in which db's are allowed to "chuck" the recievers, or was the ball already in the air when contact was made.

https://i.imgur.com/HOUTpNz.png

[rabblerouser]

It wasn't even holding since Kelsey fell down on his own. WTF are you guys complaining about? Nothing should have been called. Mahones throw his first INT in week 6. You guys are doing pretty ****ing good.

Are you completely blind, or just a stupid Bronco fan?

Even Tony Dungy says it's a penalty - watch the video here, where the defender drags Kelce to the ground BEFORE the pass is thrown :

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183536058144841732

Dumbass.

[Garcia Bronco]

The defender literally takes his hand & pushes down on the back of Kelsey's helmet & pushes him down. The only legitimate questions are did the contact take place within the 5 yard zone in which db's are allowed to "chuck" the recievers, or was the ball already in the air when contact was made.

That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :)

[Garcia Bronco]

Are you completely blind, or just a stupid Bronco fan?

Even Tony Dungy says it's a penalty - watch the video here, where the defender drags Kelce to the ground BEFORE the pass is thrown :

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183536058144841732

Dumbass.

I don't give a shit what Dungy says. He's not an expert in physics. Further...holding was not the call. You can't commit PI when the ball is no where near anymore that can catch it. Of course none of you seem to acknowledge the holding/tackle by the Chief left tackle.

[lcarus]

The whole game was fishy. We got boned. It reminded me of the Steelers game last season where they did everything they could to keep the game from being a blowout.

Whether you think we got hosed or not, the officiating in the league SUCKS so bad now. The games just aren't as enjoyable to watch. Every damn play the players look around for a flag. I can't enjoy good plays anymore because I'm looking for a flag. Nobody wants to see the Sean Hochuli Show on Sundays. Fuck that guy.

[rabblerouser]

That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :)

I guarantee he knows the NFL rulebook better than your dumb ass, so I put more stock in what Dungy says over some stupid Broncos Homer trolling on a Chiefs mb.

[ScareCrowe]

That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :)
No kidding, I think the point is that the call should have been holding. Which of course is called regardless of where the ball is thrown because holding takes place before the ball is thrown.

And if Kelcey is already going down on his own it's stupid for the defender to place his hand on his head as it makes it look like he is pushing him down. (mainly because that's exactly what he was doing)

[DanT]

So I will ask again. Based on the rule interpretation every eligible receiver who isn't the intended receiver can literally be abused once the ball is in the air?


They can be abused the way that a defender can abuse any other player on offense. That's the way the rules are and that is exactly how they should be. Receivers are just like anybody else on the offense, unless they have a play on the forward pass while it is in flight.

[DanT]

That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :)

Exactly!

Kelce got handled on that play. He needs to figure out how to avoid getting locked up off the line of scrimmage.

[KChiefs1]

Because the ball was already in the air and the pass wasn't to Kelsey. Ergo pass interference is impossible. That's more of an embarrassment that one of the referees called it to begin with.



I watched it again. The ball wasn’t in the air when Kelce was tackled.

Why wasn’t that defensive holding? You can tackle the TE now?

[Rain Man]

It's clear from the officials' ruling that the defender was not touching Kelce prior to the ball being thrown, and then he immediately jumped onto Kelce and grabbed him to ... throw him off of his downfield blocking assignment?

[rabblerouser]

I watched it again. The ball wasn’t in the air when Kelce was tackled.

Why wasn’t that defensive holding? You can tackle the TE now?

Exactly.

DanT and GarciaBronco need to rewatch the play, because they're both coming off as morons who have zero fucking clue what they're talking about.

[SupDock]

I don't give a shit what Dungy says. He's not an expert in physics. Further...holding was not the call. You can't commit PI when the ball is no where near anymore that can catch it. Of course none of you seem to acknowledge the holding/tackle by the Chief left tackle.

You are wrong. And here come the whataboutism.

[philfree]

Illegal Contact

[Dayze]

let's bring in our rules expert to explain what you just witnessed as a viewer, isn't a penalty.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

When Dungy on NBC calls it out at a bullshit call, and that it should have been defensive holding, 5 yards, 1st down Chiefs...I'm sorry but I think it was indeed what we thought it was during the game...notice they did not show when the ball was released on the broadcast...Kelce was already being held, that's why Mahomes threw it up, he figured he had a free play. You could tell both he and Reid were arguing that by reading their lips.

Whatever. It was a drive killer, and the Chiefs were already struggling. Having the refs throw a flag and the pick it up the way they did...****ing unreal bullshit.

He thought he had a free play?

What a bunch of horseshit that was.

There were about three other flags that were picked up after refs conferred. Wonder which team benefited from those.

[SupDock]

He thought he had a free play?

What a bunch of horseshit that was.

There were about three other flags that were picked up after refs conferred. Wonder which team benefited from those.

What does that have to do with this?

[crayzkirk]

It's over, it's done. We have to move on. Like the Saints getting jobbed last year, no one is going to change anything. There might be an "I'm sorry we messed up that call" from the league office. Clark Hunt will just get that along with his check for being a good boy and not making any waves.

Move along, nothing to see here!

[Mosbonian]

They can be abused the way that a defender can abuse any other player on offense. That's the way the rules are and that is exactly how they should be. Receivers are just like anybody else on the offense, unless they have a play on the forward pass while it is in flight.

So....if a DB wants to trip, grab, tackle or otherwise physically harass a receiver to whom the ball is not being thrown there is no penalty?

I know what I would be telling my players.....once the ball is in the air and you see it isn't coming to the guy you are covering, knock the crap out of him.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

What does that have to do with this?

Not sure what you mean. It’s a thread about officiating right?

[SupDock]

Not sure what you mean. It’s a thread about officiating right?

It's a thread about a specific call. I hope that you are just trolling .

[mililo4cpa]

Because the ball was already in the air and the pass wasn't to Kelsey. Ergo pass interference is impossible. That's more of an embarrassment that one of the referees called it to begin with.

This was the explanation I heard as well...cannot comment why there was no defensive holding though. I mean, when the refs were huddled up, one would think at least one of the refs would have said something about Kelce getting tackled.

[Deberg_1990]

This isn’t why we lost, but it’s fishy.

So no replay was used so who was the official trying to listen to??

[rabblerouser]

This isn’t why we lost, but it’s fishy.

So no replay was used so who was the official trying to listen to??

They were listening to someone from the league office in NY, been saying that for years (I don't know if the "RIGGED" thread got RRed or removed, but it's in there)...and it is ABSOLUTELY the reason we lost - that took at least 3 points off the board, if not 7, and allowed the Texans to score a TD before the half - that's a 10 point swing, at minimum. We lost by 7. It also contributed to Andy trying to go deep on the play Mahomes got hit and fumbled on, which also led to a Texans score.

If they call that play right, AND call the Ward return for TD off Hopkins' fumble correctly, we're up 27-9 in the 2nd, OR 31-9, and that changes the entire complexion of the game.

We were well on our way to blowing them clean the fuck out, then the refs got flag happy.

We go up 31-9, and then the Texans would've got pass happy, which plays into OUR game...instead, the close score played into THEIR game.

[Imon Yourside]

They were listening to someone from the league office in NY, been saying that for years (I don't know if the "RIGGED" thread got RRed or removed, but it's in there)...and it is ABSOLUTELY the reason we lost - that took at least 3 points off the board, if not 7, and allowed the Texans to score a TD before the half - that's a 10 point swing, at minimum. We lost by 7. It also contributed to Andy trying to go deep on the play Mahomes got hit and fumbled on, which also led to a Texans score.

If they call that play right, AND call the Ward return for TD off Hopkins' fumble correctly, we're up 27-9 in the 2nd, OR 31-9, and that changes the entire complexion of the game.

We were well on our way to blowing them clean the **** out, then the refs got flag happy.

We go up 31-9, and then the Texans would've got pass happy, which plays into OUR game...instead, the close score played into THEIR game.

Spot on as usual Rabble, we got hosed plain and simple. The first drive Kelce got called for an OPI when he got tackled I knew it was going to be a long afternoon.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Even Petro thinks we got hosed, and he always shuts down officiating complaints. It’s all he’s talked about.

Just too many indefensible/questionable calls to ignore in this one.

Yeah, yeah...”overcome.” You can’t expect to overcome a bunch of injuries, a good opponent AND a bunch of crushing calls.

[rabblerouser]

Even Petro thinks we got hosed, and he always shuts down officiating complaints. It’s all he’s talked about.

Just too many indefensible/questionable calls to ignore in this one.

Yeah, yeah...”overcome.” You can’t expect to overcome a bunch of injuries, a good opponent AND a bunch of crushing calls.
Spot on as usual Rabble, we got hosed plain and simple. The first drive Kelce got called for an OPI when he got tackled I knew it was going to be a long afternoon.

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/fMwU9EKsJsxmU/200.gif

[Megatron96]

I don't give a shit what Dungy says. He's not an expert in physics. Further...holding was not the call. You can't commit PI when the ball is no where near anymore that can catch it. Of course none of you seem to acknowledge the holding/tackle by the Chief left tackle.

Oh and you are an expert in physics? Please educate us on exactly what happened here using your vast knowledge in physics. Let’s hear how many joules of energy it took to initiate that push? The momentum of the football at release?

We’re waiting.

[rabblerouser]

Oh and you are an expert in physics? Please educate us on exactly what happened here using your vast knowledge in physics. Let’s here how many joules of energy I took to initiate that push? The momentum of the football at release?

We’re waiting.

The best part?

Not only is Garcia Bronco an expert in physics, but he knows more about football than Tony ****ing Dungy.

Makes me wonder why such a genius Bronco fan is trolling a Chiefs message board, when he should be coaching an NFL team or working in a physics lab...

[DanT]

This was the explanation I heard as well...cannot comment why there was no defensive holding though. I mean, when the refs were huddled up, one would think at least one of the refs would have said something about Kelce getting tackled.

Pass interference is reviewable. Illegal contact with a receiver is not.
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#section-3-reviewable-rulings

[rabblerouser]

Pass interference is reviewable. Illegal contact with a receiver is not.
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#section-3-reviewable-rulings

They didn't ****ing review it, dipshit.

They CALLED it pass interference...that was their FIRST ****up in that whole sequence.

Then, they marked off the penalty, set the ball for play, the Chiefs offense lined up, and then the Man Behind the Curtain came into Hochuli's ear piece and told them it wasn't pass interference - you can see him listening to his ear piece in the video - but they STILL didn't get it right.

So there never WAS an actual review. They never looked at the play again. And you're a ****ing dumbass.

Is your name Dan T. Hochuli or something??

[ljmhawk]

They were listening to someone from the league office in NY, been saying that for years (I don't know if the "RIGGED" thread got RRed or removed, but it's in there)...and it is ABSOLUTELY the reason we lost - that took at least 3 points off the board, if not 7, and allowed the Texans to score a TD before the half - that's a 10 point swing, at minimum. We lost by 7. It also contributed to Andy trying to go deep on the play Mahomes got hit and fumbled on, which also led to a Texans score.

If they call that play right, AND call the Ward return for TD off Hopkins' fumble correctly, we're up 27-9 in the 2nd, OR 31-9, and that changes the entire complexion of the game.

We were well on our way to blowing them clean the **** out, then the refs got flag happy.

We go up 31-9, and then the Texans would've got pass happy, which plays into OUR game...instead, the close score played into THEIR game.

Hopkins forward progress was clearly stopped, he was being pushed back when the fumble occurred and it was blown dead anyway. they got that call right. Kelce wasn’t interfered with, but he was for sure held or had illegal contact against him. so pretty much the way i took it was as long as the ball isn’t thrown to a specific receiver and the ball is in the air you can tackle them with no consequences. the chiefs did not lose because of the refs...they lost because the defense can’t stop a pee wee football team and the offense won’t run the ball and run quick passes. people need to stop blaming losses on the refs.

[DanT]

They didn't ****ing review it, dipshit.

They CALLED it pass interference...that was their FIRST ****up in that whole sequence.

Then, they marked off the penalty, set the ball for play, the Chiefs offense lined up, and then the Man Behind the Curtain came into Hochuli's ear piece and told them it wasn't pass interference - you can see him listening to his ear piece in the video - but they STILL didn't get it right.

So there never WAS an actual review. They never looked at the play again. And you're a ****ing dumbass.

Is your name Dan T. Hochuli or something??

Do you believe that what happened on the field was pass interference? I'm not disputing that pass interference was called. I'm asking you whether in your opinion that play should have been called pass interference? In my opinion, it clearly was not pass interference. To me, it is completely plausible that one of the officials on the field, when he heard the announced call that it was pass interference, felt that this was a bad mistake and he took steps to fix it. Indeed, calling pass interference on that play was ridiculous, because there was no way that Kelce was going to catch that ball. There can't be pass interference committed against a receiver who would otherwise had not been able to catch the pass. This is very basic and common football knowledge. It would have been wrong for the officials to call that play pass interference. They did call it that at first, but they corrected the egregious call afterward. That's all they could do. They can't say, "well, we're wrong to call it pass interference, but it was illegal contact or it was holding." That wasn't an option, given the rules. What was an option was to correct the bad call, which is what they did.

[Beerthirty]

What's our owner say about this?

[rabblerouser]

Do you believe that what happened on the field was pass interference? I'm not disputing that pass interference was called. I'm asking you whether in your opinion that play should have been called pass interference? In my opinion, it clearly was not pass interference. To me, it is completely plausible that one of the officials on the field, when he heard the announced call that it was pass interference, felt that this was a bad mistake and he took steps to fix it. Indeed, calling pass interference on that play was ridiculous, because there was no way that Kelce was going to catch that ball. There can't be pass interference committed against a receiver who would otherwise had not been able to catch the pass. This is very basic and common football knowledge. It would have been wrong for the officials to call that play pass interference. They did call it that at first, but they corrected the egregious call afterward. That's all they could do. They can't say, "well, we're wrong to call it pass interference, but it was illegal contact or it was holding." That wasn't an option, given the rules. What was an option was to correct the bad call, which is what they did.
It was illegal contact.

And they didn't correct it - correcting it would've been "it was illegal contact."

So, instead of giving the Chiefs the few extra yards on the DPI, they totally fuck the Chiefs in the ass with an AIDSstick and give the ball to the Texans?? How is THAT the correct call?

He was "not able to catch the pass" because he was TACKLED BEFORE THE BALL WAS THROWN.

Even though he was 1st read on the play...

He was not able to catch the ball BECAUSE of the illegal contact.

And if you say they couldn't change the call to illegal contact, how could they change it to a non-call AFTER THEY ALREADY MARKED OFF THE PENALTY AND RESET THE BALL!?

NO CHALLENGE. NO REVIEW.

Answer the questions. And if your answer doesn't include "they fucked the whole thing up" or "the NFL is rigged", then it's just more DanT bullshit.

[rabblerouser]

What's our owner say about this?

"$1m... $2m... $3m... $4m...$5m..."

[SAUTO]

Do you believe that what happened on the field was pass interference? I'm not disputing that pass interference was called. I'm asking you whether in your opinion that play should have been called pass interference? In my opinion, it clearly was not pass interference. To me, it is completely plausible that one of the officials on the field, when he heard the announced call that it was pass interference, felt that this was a bad mistake and he took steps to fix it. Indeed, calling pass interference on that play was ridiculous, because there was no way that Kelce was going to catch that ball. There can't be pass interference committed against a receiver who would otherwise had not been able to catch the pass. This is very basic and common football knowledge. It would have been wrong for the officials to call that play pass interference. They did call it that at first, but they corrected the egregious call afterward. That's all they could do. They can't say, "well, we're wrong to call it pass interference, but it was illegal contact or it was holding." That wasn't an option, given the rules. What was an option was to correct the bad call, which is what they did.
Spot on.

Great post.

[ljmhawk]

Do you believe that what happened on the field was pass interference? I'm not disputing that pass interference was called. I'm asking you whether in your opinion that play should have been called pass interference? In my opinion, it clearly was not pass interference. To me, it is completely plausible that one of the officials on the field, when he heard the announced call that it was pass interference, felt that this was a bad mistake and he took steps to fix it. Indeed, calling pass interference on that play was ridiculous, because there was no way that Kelce was going to catch that ball. There can't be pass interference committed against a receiver who would otherwise had not been able to catch the pass. This is very basic and common football knowledge. It would have been wrong for the officials to call that play pass interference. They did call it that at first, but they corrected the egregious call afterward. That's all they could do. They can't say, "well, we're wrong to call it pass interference, but it was illegal contact or it was holding." That wasn't an option, given the rules. What was an option was to correct the bad call, which is what they did.

their mistake was calling it DPI which it wasn’t. it was holding or illegal contact.

[SAUTO]

their mistake was calling it DPI which it wasn’t. it was holding or illegal contact.

Yes, it was. But that’s not reviewable... they said on the field it was during the pass and we can’t ask to review that.

[rabblerouser]

Yes, it was. But that’s not reviewable... they said on the field it was during the pass and we can’t ask to review that.

So, they just give the ball to the Texans, even though they threw the flag in the first place, which indicates "free play" to the QB?

It was never reviewed, period. They didn't review it themselves. They listened to their little earpiece. If they can just be like "our bad, it's not DPI", then they can change it to illegal contact.

But they didn't - they seized the opportunity to get Houston back in the game.

They should've went with the call on the field and made Houston challenge the DPI call.

[rabblerouser]

They can't say, "well, we're wrong to call it pass interference, but it was illegal contact or it was holding." That wasn't an option, given the rules. What was an option was to correct the bad call, which is what they did.

why can't they?

If they can change it to what it ISN'T - a no-call interception - with no challenge, they can change it to what it really was - illegal contact.

[ljmhawk]

it wasn’t DPI. they said it was, but it wasn’t. it was either holding or illegal contact. the ball was not thrown to Kelce so it can’t be DPI. like i said, they called it wrong.

[SAUTO]

So, they just give the ball to the Texans, even though they threw the flag in the first place, which indicates "free play" to the QB?

It was never reviewed, period. They didn't review it themselves. They listened to their little earpiece. If they can just be like "our bad, it's not DPI", then they can change it to illegal contact.

But they didn't - they seized the opportunity to get Houston back in the game.

Well since it wasn’t pass interference then ummm yeah it was an interception.


There was nothing to review. The pass didn’t go to kelce and they said the contact happened while the ball was in the air. So nothing is reviewable by rule.

Pat should have thrown the ball at Kelce if he wanted the call.

[DanT]

So....if a DB wants to trip, grab, tackle or otherwise physically harass a receiver to whom the ball is not being thrown there is no penalty?

I know what I would be telling my players.....once the ball is in the air and you see it isn't coming to the guy you are covering, knock the crap out of him.

As I said, after the ball has become a forward pass, the DB can do to a receiver who is not able to get to the ball anything that the DB can do to any other offensive player. There are things that defenders can do to offensive players that can put those offensive players on the ground legally and there are things that can't be done. That's how the game has always been played, in terms of defense vs. offense. It's also true that DB and receivers will sometimes be unduly kind to one another and choose not to engage in what would be legal contact, but there is nothing outlawing that. If DBs made a point of taking out receivers when they could do it legally, they would protect themselves against hook-and-ladder plays and the like.

Kelce, a 6'5" 250 lb tight end, ended up on the ground, after getting locked up with a Lonnie Johnson, Jr., a 6'2" 213 lb DB. The initial contact happened within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, making it legal at that moment. There appears from the replay that there was also contact beyond five yards that might have been while Mahomes still had the ball and which would have thus, by the strict letter of the law, represented illegal contact, but that's the kind of thing that happens routinely in the NFL and often is not called. It's arguable that it should be called, as Mahomes didn't throw at Kelce and Kelce's engagement with that defender kept that defender occupied, seemingly at Kelce's discretion because there isn't really any fuckin' reason for a player as big as Kelce to let himself be manhandled by a smaller DB.
Personally, I don't want to watch football games where ticky-tack fouls get called. That's not football.

According to Mahomes comments after the game, Kelce got locked up while doing a designed "double move" that, had it been successful, would have put Kelce in the vicinity of the ball. In other words, Mahomes is claiming that Kelce was the intended target and that he threw the ball to where he did because he saw Kelce begin to execute the double move, https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article236092143.html

If that's true, then that clearly establishes that Mahomes was not "taking a shot" downfield because he saw a flag. It also invites the question, would any reasonable football fan want to have a pass like that be considered catchable by Kelce. I sure wouldn't. Kelce was nowhere near the football. I don't like when refs give teams yards they didn't actually earn. I would have liked it better had the refs called illegal contact, but I can see what they didn't and non-calls like that happen all of the time. That call is not why the Chiefs lost that game yesterday.

[ljmhawk]

So, they just give the ball to the Texans, even though they threw the flag in the first place, which indicates "free play" to the QB?

It was never reviewed, period. They didn't review it themselves. They listened to their little earpiece. If they can just be like "our bad, it's not DPI", then they can change it to illegal contact.

But they didn't - they seized the opportunity to get Houston back in the game.

They should've went with the call on the field and made Houston challenge the DPI call.

if it was rigged then why wouldn’t the want KC to win? Mahomes is reigning MVP and people turn their channel to watch him. people thinking the NFL is rigged are a bunch of wimps

[SAUTO]

why can't they?

If they can change it to what it ISN'T - a no-call interception - with no challenge, they can change it to what it really was - illegal contact.

Once again, the ref explained this, they said the contact happened while the ball was in the air. That was the call on the field. They were probably wrong BUT that’s not reviewable.
He even said “ the contact happened while the ball was in the air, so it’s not d holding”...

[DanT]

why can't they?

If they can change it to what it ISN'T - a no-call interception - with no challenge, they can change it to what it really was - illegal contact.

The NFL has specific rules about what kind of plays are and are not reviewable. Certain kinds of judgment calls are not reviewable, including making illegal contact with a receiver. The list is available here, https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#rule15

Here are things that can be reviewed

The Replay System will cover the following play situations:

Plays involving possession (see Section 3, Article 2).
Plays involving touching of either the ball or the ground (see Section 3, Article 3).
Plays governed by the goal line (see Section 3, Article 4).
Plays governed by the boundary lines (see Section 3, Article 5).
Plays governed by the line of scrimmage (see Section 3, Article 6).
Plays governed by the line to gain (see Section 3, Article 7).
Number of players on the field at the snap (see Section 3, Article 8).
Game administration (see Section 3, Article 9).
Penalty enforcement.
Proper down.
Spot of a foul.
Status of the game clock.
Pass interference (see Section 3, Article 10).
Disqualification of a player (see Section 3, Article 11).
Other reviewable plays (see Section 3, Article 12).

Here are some things that can not be reviewed
SECTION 4 - NON-REVIEWABLE PLAYS
The following aspects of plays are not reviewable:

Whether an erroneous whistle sounded;
Whether a ball was illegally batted or kicked;
Whether a passer intentionally grounded a pass;
Whether an ineligible receiver was downfield before a pass;
Whether a receiver was illegally contacted;
The spot of a loose ball crossing the sideline;
Whether a block was illegal; and
Any aspect of a play not listed as reviewable in Section 3 of this Rule.

[rabblerouser]

if it was rigged then why wouldn’t the want KC to win? Mahomes is reigning MVP and people turn their channel to watch him. people thinking the NFL is rigged are a bunch of wimps

Because they hyped the Mahomes v Watson match up all week like it was Ali v Frazier, and CBS was BROADCASTING IT TO 95% OF THE COUNTRY.

They don't give a fuck if the Chiefs win or lose, they just want close games in the 4th qtr.

People who don't see the manipulation are monosyllabic rubes.

[DanT]

For 2019, the NFL made pass interference calls and non-calls reviewable. This was notable because pass interference is a judgment call and judgment calls are the sort of thing that is hard to make reviewable in a way that seems transparent and fair and without disrupting what fans have come to expect as OK and not OK.

[SupDock]

The unanswered question is what prompted them to change the call after they had huddled, announced the call, moved the ball forward and chiefs were preparing for the next snap.

[ljmhawk]

Because they hyped the Mahomes v Watson match up all week like it was Ali v Frazier, and CBS was BROADCASTING IT TO 95% OF THE COUNTRY.

They don't give a **** if the Chiefs win or lose, they just want close games in the 4th qtr.

People who don't see the manipulation are monosyllabic rubes.

do you also think the earth is flat?

[Shag]

The NFL has specific rules about what kind of plays are and are not reviewable.

Reviewable BY CHALLENGE. Nothing was challenged, therefore, nothing should have been reviewed/changed by the powers-that-be.

[PHOG]

Huh, and here I thought the call on the field was DPI. In order to reverse that, there needed to be a challenge, bad call or good call, doesn't matter IMO. That was the call on the field. It was announced. they had spotted the ball. Huh.

[SupDock]

Huh, and here I thought the call on the field was DPI. In order to reverse that, there needed to be a challenge, bad call or good call, doesn't matter IMO. That was the call on the field. It was announced. they had spotted the ball. Huh.

Exactly, the Texans could have used a challenge. That didn't happen

[DanT]

their mistake was calling it DPI which it wasn’t. it was holding or illegal contact.

Right, it was a mistake to call it DPI. If they had called it holding or illegal contact, that would have been good. But they didn't call it that and it wasn't possible for them to use instant replay to change that call.

[rabblerouser]

The NFL has specific rules about what kind of plays are and are not reviewable. Certain kinds of judgment calls are not reviewable, including making illegal contact with a receiver. The list is available here, https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#rule15

Here are things that can be reviewed


Here are some things that can not be reviewed

Are you fucking dense?

I never said they had to review ANYTHING. I know it's not reviewable.

They should have went with the wrong call (they do THAT all the time) and if Houston wanted to review the erroneous DPI, then they could've challenged it.

But the fact that they were TOLD to change the call by New York, AFTER the ball was set and KC was lined up to run a play is just more proof of the fix.

NY lets all kinds of shit calls go on, every single game. Why they chose THAT one to buzz down and change is more than a little suspicious - and since they can just stop play and go "let's get half of this call corrected" but not say "the reason we know this isn't DPI is because it's actually illegal contact"...is just evidence of the NFL's full-on fuckery.

Quit making excuses for the NFL's fuckery.

[rabblerouser]

Right, it was a mistake to call it DPI. If they had called it holding or illegal contact, that would have been good. But they didn't call it that and it wasn't possible for them to use instant replay to change that call.

They didn't use instant replay to change the call from DPI.

Someone in NY told them to change it via Hochuli's earpiece.

Watch the video. It's been posted in this thread.

[SupDock]

Right, it was a mistake to call it DPI. If they had called it holding or illegal contact, that would have been good. But they didn't call it that and it wasn't possible for them to use instant replay to change that call.

The point is, the play was never reviewed at all. A penalty was announced, the ball was moved and then suddenly it was reversed without a review.

I would have had no problem if before the penalty was announced the refs had huddled and given the explanation that it couldn't be pass interference

[rabblerouser]

Reviewable BY CHALLENGE. Nothing was challenged, therefore, nothing should have been reviewed/changed by the powers-that-be.

EXACTLY.

[rabblerouser]

The point is, the play was never reviewed at all. A penalty was announced, the ball was moved and then suddenly it was reversed without a review.

I would have had no problem if before the penalty was announced the refs had huddled and given the explanation that it couldn't be pass interference
I don't know what that's so hard for DanT to understand.

Cognitive dissonance, perhaps?

[DanT]

why can't they?

If they can change it to what it ISN'T - a no-call interception - with no challenge, they can change it to what it really was - illegal contact.

Hey rabblerouser,

I answer your question was a post about Instant Replay and what is or isn't reviewable, but now that I think about it, I don't know whether or not the officials could have changed the call to illegal contact on their own accord. That would be good to know.

[rabblerouser]

Hey rabblerouser,

I answer your question was a post about Instant Replay and what is or isn't reviewable, but now that I think about it, I don't know whether or not the officials could have changed the call to illegal contact on their own accord. That would be good to know.
I have no question about instant replay.

Because it wasn't reviewed via instant replay.

There was no challenge.

[ljmhawk]

They didn't use instant replay to change the call from DPI.

Someone in NY told them to change it via Hochuli's earpiece.

Watch the video. It's been posted in this thread.

there was no DPI on Kelce....the ball has to be thrown to him. KELCE WAS NOWHERE NEAR CATCHING THE BALL. the licked up the flag because there was no DPI on Kelce because the ball wasn’t thrown to him. what can’t you understand? i’m a chiefs fan and they screwed it up...they should have called holding or illegal contact.

[DanT]

I have no question about instant replay.

Because it wasn't reviewed via instant replay.

There was no challenge.

Thanks, I see what you mean, now.

I just took a glance through the rule book. "Challenges" have to do with the review of plays be Instant Replay. In theory, this "pass interference" call could have been overturned by a coach's challenge, but Houston didn't challenge it.

Instead, the officials initiated their own discussion and corrected the call. The officials did not on their own accord. You are asking, then, the very reasonable question, why couldn't they have just called it illegal contact then? I believe the answer to that is that they could have in fact done so.

I suppose that the reason why they didn't do so is that the officials didn't think it was illegal contact at the time the play was going on and they didn't change their mind about it during the post-play huddle(s). I would guess that in the spur of the moment, that of the officials who saw the Kelce-Johnson engagement, the main thing they had in their mind after the "pass interference" call was announced what "No way was that pass interference!". But, had an official also thought, "but it was illegal contact", then they could have called it that.

So I was wrong earlier in saying that the officials couldn't have overturned the call. They couldn't have used replay review to do so, but I think they could have if they wanted to, on their own accord. Thanks for asking your questions!

Just thinking about the human factors in play, I don't think the officials at the time were thinking that there was as big of a need to correct the "non-call" of illegal contact as there was a big need to correct the egregious call of pass interference.

[DanT]

The point is, the play was never reviewed at all. A penalty was announced, the ball was moved and then suddenly it was reversed without a review.

I would have had no problem if before the penalty was announced the refs had huddled and given the explanation that it couldn't be pass interference

Thanks, SupDock, I see what you mean now.

[rabblerouser]

Thanks, I see what you mean, now.

I just took a glance through the rule book. "Challenges" have to do with the review of plays be Instant Replay. In theory, this "pass interference" call could have been overturned by a coach's challenge, but Houston didn't challenge it.

Instead, the officials initiated their own discussion and corrected the call. The officials did not on their own accord. You are asking, then, the very reasonable question, why couldn't they have just called it illegal contact then? I believe the answer to that is that they could have in fact done so.

I suppose that the reason why they didn't do so is that the officials didn't think it was illegal contact at the time the play was going on and they didn't change their mind about it during the post-play huddle(s). I would guess that in the spur of the moment, that of the officials who saw the play, the main thing they had in their mind after the "pass interference" call was announced what "No way was that pass interference!". But, had an official also thought, "but it was illegal contact", then they could have called it that.

So I was wrong earlier in saying that the officials couldn't have overturned the call. They couldn't have used replay review to do so, but I think they could have if they wanted to, on their own accord. However, just thinking about the human factors in play, I don't think the officials at the time were thinking that there was as big of a need to correct the "non-call" of illegal contact as there was a big need to correct the egregious call of pass interference.
Did you watch the video?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As to whether the ball was in air:<br><br>8:48 he starts delivery. A split second later, still 8:48, ball well out.<br><br>Cam pans at 8:47 &amp; Kelce is flat on his back.<br><br>2nd angle shows contact @ 31, thrown @ 26, lands 22.<br><br>We’re pretending Mahomes can’t see the start of that &amp; take a shot? <a href="https://t.co/Io07uHWSjy">pic.twitter.com/Io07uHWSjy</a></p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1183738962084552704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It was initiated by someone speaking into Hochuli's earpiece. They did NOT initiate their own discussion.

WATCH THE VIDEO.

They called it DPI, marked off the penalty, set the ball for play, wound the fucking play clock and were ready to move ahead with the next play.

WATCH THE VIDEO.

[SupDock]

there was no DPI on Kelce....the ball has to be thrown to him. KELCE WAS NOWHERE NEAR CATCHING THE BALL. the licked up the flag because there was no DPI on Kelce because the ball wasn’t thrown to him. what can’t you understand? i’m a chiefs fan and they screwed it up...they should have called holding or illegal contact.

You very clearly have no idea what this discussion is about

It's hilarious that you are accusing us of not being able to understand the situation

[rabblerouser]

You very clearly have no idea what this discussion is about

It's hilarious that you are accusing us of not being able to understand the situation

It's like a child wandered into the middle of an adult conversation...

[ljmhawk]

You very clearly have no idea what this discussion is about

It's hilarious that you are accusing us of not being able to understand the situation

they always pick flags up. once again...the ball was so far from kelce that there is NO DPI. even if they reviewed it, there was nothing to chanhe

[SupDock]

they always pick flags up. once again...the ball was so far from kelce that there is NO DPI. even if they reviewed it, there was nothing to chanhe

That's not even what we are talking about.
The funniest part is that you probably think we are idiots

[DanT]

Did you watch the video?


It was initiated by someone speaking into Hochuli's earpiece. They did NOT initiate their own discussion.

WATCH THE VIDEO.

They called it DPI, marked off the penalty, set the ball for play, wound the fucking play clock and were ready to move ahead with the next play.

WATCH THE VIDEO.

Thanks for the link, rabblerouser. I see that the officials are in a huddle at around 1:03 of that video link and that one of the officials pushes the earpiece into his left ear about 10 seconds later. I do not see anything in that video that suggests that anyone other than the officials themselves initiated a discussion among themselves after the referee had announced to the crowd the egregiously incorrect pass interference call about 10 to 15 seconds earlier. It's possible that there are other camera angles that show what transpired among the officials between the time the call was announced to the crowd and when the officials huddled together, but with this video, I don't see anything that would make me think someone other than the on-field officials wanted to discuss whether they should correct the announced penalty.

[Shag]

Thanks for the link, rabblerouser. I see that the officials are in a huddle at around 1:03 of that video link and that one of the officials pushes the earpiece into his left ear about 10 seconds later. I do not see anything in that video that suggests that anyone other than the officials themselves initiated a discussion among themselves after the referee had announced to the crowd the egregiously incorrect pass interference call about 10 to 15 seconds earlier. It's possible that there are other camera angles that show what transpired among the officials between the time the call was announced to the crowd and when the officials huddled together, but with this video, I don't see anything that would make me think someone other than the on-field officials wanted to discuss whether they should correct the announced penalty.

LMAO LMAO

Pretty sure DanT is a bot, at this point...

[rabblerouser]

LMAO LMAO

Pretty sure DanT is a bot, at this point...

ROFL
LMAO

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You guys keep mumbling about what should or shouldn't be called. The bottom line was this game was unwatchable garbage that can't be taken seriously the way the game was calledm. They also called a PHANTOM HOLD IMMEDIATELY after this extending a drive gifting Houston a score after this screw job.

[rabblerouser]

You guys keep mumbling about what should or shouldn't be called. The bottom line was this game was unwatchable garbage that can't be taken seriously the way the game was calledm. They also called a PHANTOM HOLD IMMEDIATELY after this extending a drive gifting Houston a score after this screw job.

Fact.

[DanT]

You guys keep mumbling about what should or shouldn't be called. The bottom line was this game was unwatchable garbage that can't be taken seriously the way the game was calledm. They also called a PHANTOM HOLD IMMEDIATELY after this extending a drive gifting Houston a score after this screw job.

The NFL is way more interesting for me to watch now than it was a few years ago. I was very tired of watching teams throw downfield passes on plays that seemed designed to get bullshit penalties that rewarded the offense by giving them yards they hadn't earned.

With Mahomes, I get to watch a guy chuck passes downfield that actually get caught and that result in well-earned yardage. He has made the game way, way, way more fun for me to watch and that seems to be a widely shared opinion among NFL fans, not just those of us who live and die with the Chiefs.

I'm not happy that the Chiefs lost yesterday, but I don't feel that we earned the victory. The game was still fun to watch. My biggest hope is for Mahomes to have a long career and my second biggest hope is that it is all with KC. As good as he is, if he can stay healthy and with the Chiefs, we are certain to get back to the Super Bowl and to win at least one.

[rabblerouser]

The NFL is way more interesting for me to watch now than it was a few years ago. I was very tired of watching teams throw downfield passes on plays that seemed designed to get bullshit penalties that rewarded the offense by giving them yards they hadn't earned.

With Mahomes, I get to watch a guy chuck passes downfield that actually get caught and that result in well-earned yardage. He has made the game way, way, way more fun for me to watch and that seems to be a widely shared opinion among NFL fans, not just those of us who live and die with the Chiefs.

I'm not happy that the Chiefs lost yesterday, but I don't feel that we earned the victory. The game was still fun to watch. My biggest hope is for Mahomes to have a long career and my second biggest hope is that it is all with KC. As good as he is, if he can stay healthy and with the Chiefs, we are certain to get back to the Super Bowl and to win at least one.

Definitely a bot.

[ljmhawk]

That's not even what we are talking about.
The funniest part is that you probably think we are idiots

you’re mad because they called DPI and picked up the flag and didn’t review it, guess what bud...if they reviewed it there still wouldn’t have been a DPI on Kelce. they all have ear pieces and can tsk to each other. the conspiracy theory that someone in NY told them to change it is hillarious

[rabblerouser]

you’re mad because they called DPI and picked up the flag and didn’t review it, guess what bud...if they reviewed it there still wouldn’t have been a DPI on Kelce. they all have ear pieces and can tsk to each other. the conspiracy theory that someone in NY told them to change it is hillarious

Tyreek Hillarious?

[SupDock]

you’re mad because they called DPI and picked up the flag and didn’t review it, guess what bud...if they reviewed it there still wouldn’t have been a DPI on Kelce. they all have ear pieces and can tsk to each other. the conspiracy theory that someone in NY told them to change it is hillarious

You still aren't following along. Does that happen frequently?

[Garcia Bronco]

I watched it again. The ball wasn’t in the air when Kelce was tackled.

Why wasn’t that defensive holding? You can tackle the TE now?

Travis fell down.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

These games are fucking awful. This is coming from a guy that would watch 5 to 6 games a week including shit Chiefs teams. The results get MORE manufactured as more $$$$ gets involved. That's a fact. It's borderline WWE now. That phantom hold nobody is talking about was a COMPLETE crock of shit as was changing a penalty call AFTER the team had huddled. Someone MADE them change the call from outside the stadium.

[rabblerouser]

You still aren't following along. Does that happen frequently?

He needs to start at the beginning, but I don't think he could catch up anyway.

It's Tyreek Hillarious.

[Coogs]

The NFL is way more interesting for me to watch now than it was a few years ago. I was very tired of watching teams throw downfield passes on plays that seemed designed to get bullshit penalties that rewarded the offense by giving them yards they hadn't earned.

With Mahomes, I get to watch a guy chuck passes downfield that actually get caught and that result in well-earned yardage. He has made the game way, way, way more fun for me to watch and that seems to be a widely shared opinion among NFL fans, not just those of us who live and die with the Chiefs.

I'm not happy that the Chiefs lost yesterday, but I don't feel that we earned the victory. The game was still fun to watch. My biggest hope is for Mahomes to have a long career and my second biggest hope is that it is all with KC. As good as he is, if he can stay healthy and with the Chiefs, we are certain to get back to the Super Bowl and to win at least one.

I have to say the last two games for me have not been fun to watch. Not because the defense sux, but because of the officiating. It's a damn farce that the stripes are deciding games. That is not the way it is supposed to be. Players are supposed to decide who wins.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Travis fell down.

Buffoon. Denver wins two straight and magically you troll Chiefs threads again?

[rabblerouser]

These games are ****ing awful. This is coming from a guy that would watch 5 to 6 games a week including shit Chiefs teams. The results get MORE manufactured as more $$$$ gets involved. That's a fact. It's borderline WWE now. That phantom hold nobody is talking about was a COMPLETE crock of shit as was changing a penalty call AFTER the team had huddled. Someone MADE them change the call from outside the stadium.

PGM gets it.

[rabblerouser]

Buffoon. Denver wins two straight and magically you troll Chiefs threads again?

He's straight trolling.

He's a physics expert that knows more about football than Tony Dungy. Found that out today.

[Megatron96]

That was definitely holding on Kelce. The ball came out about the time Kelce began falling to the ground.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Having to wait to celebrate any big play is just sooooo fucking thrilling as is scouring the field for flags, seeing yellow, and the team fucked with bogus calls over and over again...thrilling

[Kman34]

These games are fucking awful. This is coming from a guy that would watch 5 to 6 games a week including shit Chiefs teams. The results get MORE manufactured as more $$$$ gets involved. That's a fact. It's borderline WWE now. That phantom hold nobody is talking about was a COMPLETE crock of shit as was changing a penalty call AFTER the team had huddled. Someone MADE them change the call from outside the stadium.

Why do you think all the refs have headsets now??? ..that's right..... Dollar signs....

[Rain Man]

Having to wait to celebrate any big play is just sooooo ****ing thrilling as is scouring the field for flags, seeing yellow, and the team ****ed with bogus calls over and over again...thrilling

That's exactly where I was yesterday. I didn't enjoy the game at all after the first quarter, because I waited after every big play to see what the flag was going to be.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Then you watch NE and they get by with MUGGING guys up and down the field with no call...propped up by pawn announcing crews selling it as discipline or some shit. It's complete unwatchable horseshit

[rabblerouser]

That was definitely holding on Kelce. The ball came out about the time Kelce began falling to the ground.

Kelce was getting back up when the ball came out.

According to Mahomes, Kelce was the first read on the play, and he got tackled, PMII saw the flag come out, so he chucked it toward the end zone.

[gold_and_red]

Even without any agenda it is too easy for incompetent refs to decide the outcome of a game. One well timed offensive holding or a DPI or DH, boom game over.

[DanT]

Having to wait to celebrate any big play is just sooooo fucking thrilling as is scouring the field for flags, seeing yellow, and the team fucked with bogus calls over and over again...thrilling

If the NFL were put in charge of mammalian reproduction, we would have all died off years ago. Those bastards would make every ejaculation reviewable, with would-be mothers and fathers scouring the field for flags after each potential conception.

[mililo4cpa]

It was illegal contact.

And they didn't correct it - correcting it would've been "it was illegal contact."

So, instead of giving the Chiefs the few extra yards on the DPI, they totally fuck the Chiefs in the ass with an AIDSstick and give the ball to the Texans?? How is THAT the correct call?

He was "not able to catch the pass" because he was TACKLED BEFORE THE BALL WAS THROWN.

Even though he was 1st read on the play...

He was not able to catch the ball BECAUSE of the illegal contact.

And if you say they couldn't change the call to illegal contact, how could they change it to a non-call AFTER THEY ALREADY MARKED OFF THE PENALTY AND RESET THE BALL!?

NO CHALLENGE. NO REVIEW.

Answer the questions. And if your answer doesn't include "they fucked the whole thing up" or "the NFL is rigged", then it's just more DanT bullshit.

Exactly! For a league trying to “get it right”, they sure didn’t come close

[Pasta Little Brioni]

If these guys are so bad at their jobs, why aren't they held accountable...jeez I wonder why

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Mahomes ONLY chucked that pick because he knew it was a free play. It's complete bullshit and changed the course of the game....THEN to put salt in the wounds Houston magically gets a PHANTOM hold to extend a drive to score a TD

[rabblerouser]

Even without any agenda it is too easy for incompetent refs to decide the outcome of a game. One well timed offensive holding or a DPI or DH, boom game over.

Or the Thursday Night Game in Oakland in 2017 where they kept throwing flag after flag after flag until Oakland scored and won the game...

[rabblerouser]

Mahomes ONLY chucked that pick because he knew it was a free play. It's complete bullshit and changed the course of the game....THEN to put salt in the wounds Houston magically gets a PHANTOM hold to extend a drive to score a TD

100% accurate again.

[DanT]

Mahomes ONLY chucked that pick because he knew it was a free play. It's complete bullshit and changed the course of the game....THEN to put salt in the wounds Houston magically gets a PHANTOM hold to extend a drive to score a TD


Mahomes said after the game that he threw the ball thinking that Kelce would be there to catch it. Here's an excerpt from the KC Star
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article236092143.html]

“The play was designed where Kelce was doing a double move and I was letting him work it, knowing it was man coverage,” Mahomes said. “I saw him getting ready to do his move. I went to throw it to the spot and give him a chance. He wasn’t there. After you looked at it, you realize he kinda got tackled, so that’s the reason he wasn’t there.”

Mahomes, Kelce and Chiefs coach Andy Reid argued the decision. Asked if he received any further explanation on the reversal, Kelce replied, “Nah.” Reid said Hochuli’s explanation over the public address system matched the one he was told individually.

But it still didn’t fit the way the sequence unfolded, the Chiefs believed.

Replay showed the holding occurred before Mahomes unleashed his pass. If the ruling had been holding or illegal contact, the call would have stood — the vicinity of the throw is irrelevant for those infractions.

Instead, the call of defensive pass interference prompted the officials to determine whether Kelce was the intended receiver. But as Mahomes explained, they whiffed on that judgment.

“We were trying to get an explanation from the referee of why they picked up the flag and what was the reasoning,” Mahomes said. “They said I had thrown the ball when he was getting held, which it’s a rule (that) if it’s uncatchable, you can’t call pass interference. But ... him running the double move was the reason he fell down and it was uncatchable. It shook me.”

Asked if he received an explanation that “made sense,” Reid said, “Well, they gave me an explanation. You take what they give you and you try to get going again. There’s no use in arguing about it more than what we did. You gotta move on”

They didn’t. Not statistically, anyway.

Before the sequence, the Chiefs led 17-9, and that first-down snap came at the Texans’ 32-yard line. A two-score lead seemed on the horizon.

After the no-call, the Texans outscored Kansas City 22-7 — with undoubtedly several more significant factors in play than the response to a flag’s disappearance, namely the defense’s inability to find anything to slow the Houston offense.

“You have to move on. You have to play,” Mahomes said. “You have to find a way to play better after that flag and find ways to win the game.”

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Or the Thursday Night Game in Oakland in 2017 where they kept throwing flag after flag after flag until Oakland scored and won the game...

Five head's last year was a tragic comedy of bad calls...including his magic comeback at Arrowhead propped by bogus defensive holds. The game just sucks now. It's gotten even WORSE with officiating. Teams like NE have COMPLETELY different rules.

[SupDock]

Or the Thursday Night Game in Oakland in 2017 where they kept throwing flag after flag after flag until Oakland scored and won the game...

On the final scoring play after multiple defensive flags, there was clearly offensive pass interference which was overlooked

[Garcia Bronco]

So....if a DB wants to trip, grab, tackle or otherwise physically harass a receiver to whom the ball is not being thrown there is no penalty?

I know what I would be telling my players.....once the ball is in the air and you see it isn't coming to the guy you are covering, knock the crap out of him.

Lol...that DB didn't knock the crap out of Kelce. His coach is telling him not to get locked up like that.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

2 wins and suddenly we have Denver fans magically reappear....pathetic

[stevieray]

Lol...that DB didn't knock the crap out of Kelce. His coach is telling him not to get locked up like that.

You're better than this, man.

Especially after all this time here.

[Hammock Parties]

2 wins and suddenly we have Denver fans magically reappear....pathetic

All these fucking bitches, man.

This is the moment when Reid reels off six straight wins and we tell ALL OF 'EM to suck our phat DIX.

[bobbything]

there was no DPI on Kelce....the ball has to be thrown to him. KELCE WAS NOWHERE NEAR CATCHING THE BALL. the licked up the flag because there was no DPI on Kelce because the ball wasn’t thrown to him. what can’t you understand? i’m a chiefs fan and they screwed it up...they should have called holding or illegal contact.

That’s not what happened. Go back and watch it then read the initial post in this thread. It’s a legitimate question that hasn’t been answered.

Penalty called, penalty accepted, ball spotted, both teams ready...buzz from the Gods...they huddle back up and change the call because they were told to do it. I’ve never seen anything that egregious. It’s not the same as throwing the flag and picking it up.

[rabblerouser]

That’s not what happened. Go back and watch it then read the initial post in this thread. It’s a legitimate question that hasn’t been answered.

Penalty called, penalty accepted, ball spotted, both teams ready...buzz from the Gods...they huddle back up and change the call because they were told to do it. I’ve never seen anything that egregious. It’s not the same as throwing the flag and picking it up.

Exactly - it was like "Holy Shit, we can get Houston back in this thing RIGHT NOW."

"It's not Pass interference. It's not defensive holding, either..."

[Mosbonian]

Lol...that DB didn't knock the crap out of Kelce. His coach is telling him not to get locked up like that.

I know reading comprehension isn't required for Broncos fans so I will help you here.

I never said Kelce got the crap knocked out of him....although he was contacted illegally.

What I am saying is that if a receiver is not the intended target and can legally be abused I know what I am telling my DB's. Once the ball is in the air and you can tell your man is not the intended target....do whatever you want to him legally which evidently includes tackling or knocking down your guy.

[SAUTO]

Thanks, I see what you mean, now.

I just took a glance through the rule book. "Challenges" have to do with the review of plays be Instant Replay. In theory, this "pass interference" call could have been overturned by a coach's challenge, but Houston didn't challenge it.

Instead, the officials initiated their own discussion and corrected the call. The officials did not on their own accord. You are asking, then, the very reasonable question, why couldn't they have just called it illegal contact then? I believe the answer to that is that they could have in fact done so.

I suppose that the reason why they didn't do so is that the officials didn't think it was illegal contact at the time the play was going on and they didn't change their mind about it during the post-play huddle(s). I would guess that in the spur of the moment, that of the officials who saw the Kelce-Johnson engagement, the main thing they had in their mind after the "pass interference" call was announced what "No way was that pass interference!". But, had an official also thought, "but it was illegal contact", then they could have called it that.

So I was wrong earlier in saying that the officials couldn't have overturned the call. They couldn't have used replay review to do so, but I think they could have if they wanted to, on their own accord. Thanks for asking your questions!

Just thinking about the human factors in play, I don't think the officials at the time were thinking that there was as big of a need to correct the "non-call" of illegal contact as there was a big need to correct the egregious call of pass interference.
The ref explained that there wasnt d holding or illegal contact because the contact took place while that ball was in the air.


which IMO is wrong but not reviewable...

[KChiefs1]

I say just tackle everyone who goes out for a pass. Legal right?

[Mecca]

I say just tackle everyone who goes out for a pass. Legal right?

The way they explained that rule is basically, once the ball leaves the QB's hand if your receiver is not intended you can just chop out his knees and it's perfectly legal.

[TEX]

You're better than this, man.

Especially after all this time here.

No he's not.

[rabblerouser]

I say just tackle everyone who goes out for a pass. Legal right?

I don't know. Detroit couldn't even get close to GB's receivers without getting flagged on the final drive last night.

Amazing, the lack of consistency. It's like they'll call whatever they want...

[stevieray]

Seen it so many times. I just can't muster the energy to get upset about it anymore.

money corrupts.

[notorious]

Seen it so many times. I just can't muster the energy to get upset about it anymore.

money corrupts.

I am pissed at the NFL for pushing me to the point of questioning their legitimacy.

It’s right there on TV.

[stevieray]

I am pissed at the NFL for pushing me to the point of questioning their legitimacy.

It’s right there on TV.

I know it..and the people that are feeling that way is growing.


When you have to wait to see if there is a flag after a big play, you've ruined the game and stolen the excitement of playing.

[rabblerouser]

So...anyone see GB's final drive on MNF last night??

[Mecca]

The NFL is about on par with the WWE these days.

[stevieray]

The NFL is about on par with the WWE these days.
:(

[KCUnited]

Intended Receiver becomes ambiguous for a guy with Mahomes anticipation and ability to air it out. Its common for the ball to be out before his intended receiver makes his break and can get to it. Add in the level of incompetence among NFL refs and I can see intended receiver biting us again at some point.

[rabblerouser]

Intended Receiver becomes ambiguous for a guy with Mahomes anticipation and ability to air it out. Its common for the ball to be out before his intended receiver makes his break and can get to it. Add in the level of incompetence among NFL refs and I can see intended receiver biting us again at some point.

The precedent has been established.

[Mecca]

:(

100 years ago people fully thought that shit was real, hence where terms like mark came from...

It makes you wonder if at some point the NFL will refer to fans as marks as they are open about the ruse that their sport is.

[stevieray]

100 years ago people fully thought that shit was real, hence where terms like mark came from...

It makes you wonder if at some point the NFL will refer to fans as marks as they are open about the ruse that their sport is.


:clap:

[O.city]

People at the book in the Bellagio weren't too excited about it. Completely flipped the game.