Orlovsky implores NFL owners to fix officiating 'epidemic'

[iDeaL]

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He's right, you know...

[Mecca]

The problem though, is how do you fix it? The NFL wanted more penalties called this year, they've given them all of these points of emphasis of things to call.

It's not like there is this huge pool of good refs just sitting around, no one wants to be a ref every year at high school I get to hear about the shortage of officials in the country.

[notorious]

More penalties, more breaks for advertising, more talk about the NFL during the week.

Why would they want to fix this?

[DaFace]

The problem though, is how do you fix it? The NFL wanted more penalties called this year, they've given them all of these points of emphasis of things to call.

It's not like there is this huge pool of good refs just sitting around, no one wants to be a ref every year at high school I get to hear about the shortage of officials in the country.

I know it's not a silver bullet, but I still don't understand why the full-time ref concept wouldn't work. If nothing else, these guys should be reviewing calls and talking about it every week. Refs should have film review and practice just like the players.

[Marcellus]

More penalties, more breaks for advertising, more talk about the NFL during the week.

Why would they want to fix this?

Come on man, they aren't throwing flags for advertising purposes.

[Mecca]

I know it's not a silver bullet, but I still don't understand why the full-time ref concept wouldn't work. If nothing else, these guys should be reviewing calls and talking about it every week. Refs should have film review and practice just like the players.

The problem with that though is a lot of those guys don't want to be full time.

[chiefzilla1501]

I know it's not a silver bullet, but I still don't understand why the full-time ref concept wouldn't work. If nothing else, these guys should be reviewing calls and talking about it every week. Refs should have film review and practice just like the players.

I think we all know the answer and it rhymes with honey. The NFL has peddled this bs that full time ref experiments have failed. Well, yeah, because until refs view this as a permanent long term profession that's never going to change.

But it's not just on the refs. Why the owners want a league with all this subjective bs is beyond me. They asked for more penalties, and the refs are falling in line. More penalties means more offense which means more money.

[notorious]

Come on man, they aren't throwing flags for advertising purposes.

Of course it’s not why, but it’s a benefit.

[Mecca]

I always think it's funny how it goes into a well they just suck argument yet somehow that suck always benefits certain teams.

You never see the Cardinals get a bunch of calls that help them beat the Patriots.

[BigBeauford]

They are missing an opportunity to make officiating grades into another meta. Officials should have their game day grades posted each week, along with a seasonal grade. They could spend entire segments on it each week between games.

[In58men]

NFL will announce that the refs made some mistakes and move on.

They’ve done this how many times now?

[TLO]

This flag brought to you by Budweiser, who reminds you to drink responsibly.

[tyecopeland]

The problem with that though is a lot of those guys don't want to be full time.

They would want to be full time if the nfl paid them more than what they make elsewhere.

[Mecca]

They would want to be full time if the nfl paid them more than what they make elsewhere.

Some of those guys are lawyers and shit.

[ptlyon]

This flag brought to you by Budweiser, who reminds you to drink responsibly.

Introducing the Bud platinum flag

[tatorhog]

The problem with that though is a lot of those guys don't want to be full time.

In a league where the base salary is north of 400k, I'm pretty sure they could find a way to make them want to be full time.

[tyecopeland]

Some of those guys are lawyers and shit.

I know. But some of them aren't. And even then, dammit I think goodell could fund some of the lawyers to be full time. That way we could maybe have more than just one guys opinion deciding all the reviews.

[In58men]

They’ve been informed. NSFW

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[TEX]

This flag brought to you by Budweiser, who reminds you to drink responsibly.

:clap: ROFL

No shit! That's where it's currently headed.

[Frosty]

Some of those guys are lawyers and shit.

Then hire and train people that aren't lawyers and shit. There are tons of ex-players who could fill that role, I would think.

[Dayze]

the fact that the NFL over the last, what, 2 seasons...cut to 'rules experts' during the game tells you all you need to know about how messed up all of this is.

when networks need to employ 'rules experts' to explain to viewers why what they just witnessed is wrong.... you know your rule book is too large, complicated, and confusing.

add in the fact the 'rules experts' are probably receiving some compensation from the NFL to tow the line / protect the dumbass calls on the field.

[Coyote]

Technology for many things. Ball issues/ placement/ movement/ etc. for example
vice 3 fat guys on chains being told by another fat guy that his left foot marks forward progress and no fumble due to a whistle from a different fat guy.
Wouldn’t slow down or require reviews. Would likely speed up the game. Get as many humans out of the loop as possible. Not really what nflis considering:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-game/technology/

[comochiefsfan]

There is no “epidemic”. The officiating this year is going exactly as planned in the eyes of the league.

[RunKC]

Hmmm

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Al Riveron, the NFL’s head of officiating, has arrived here at the league meetings and will present to the competition committee later today. Much to discuss.</p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1184131556597813248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Beef Supreme]

It's bad enough when they make blatantly wrong calls. But then they go to review and still fuck it up.

They hired the motherfucker that blew the whistle on a sack fumble and claimed "forward progress" as one of their damn rules experts.

They don't want to get it right.

[DeepPurple]

Refs should be told to keep the flags in their pocket and only call if it's blatant. I would grade the officials on how few penalties they call and the quality. Officials should also be held accountable, just like players. Blakeman should be suspended for at least two games without pay for his two blunders.

[treeguy27]

Then hire and train people that aren't lawyers and shit. There are tons of ex-players who could fill that role, I would think.

Part of the reason they use lawyers and people from other professional occupations is theoretically they should be less likely to be paid off and bribed and are financially stable. Not sure I buy into that theory, but you don't want some shitbag who is hurting for money out there calling penalties either.

[Frosty]

Technology for many things. Ball issues/ placement/ movement/ etc. for example
vice 3 fat guys on chains being told by another fat guy that his left foot marks forward progress and no fumble due to a whistle from a different fat guy.
Wouldn’t slow down or require reviews. Would likely speed up the game. Get as many humans out of the loop as possible. Not really what nflis considering:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-game/technology/

If nothing else, all automatic first down plays should get a quick review because they are almost all subjective and can be game changing. it could be done in the same amount of time as it takes the refs to huddle up and discuss it.

Hmmm

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Al Riveron, the NFL’s head of officiating, has arrived here at the league meetings and will present to the competition committee later today. Much to discuss.</p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1184131556597813248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Getting rid of Riveron would be a step in the right direction.

[BigRedChief]

Bellicheck wants everything reviewable. Which makes sense because your limited in the number of challenges available. But, what if they challenge 5 times and win all? Now they are getting 8 challenges, slowing down the game.

They’d have to impose a limit on total challenges even if they are successful.

[Rain Man]

A person can claim conspiracy or incompetence or unconscious bias or simply that the game has become too complicated.

While I think more than one of those things exist, I think a very simple answer is that the game has become too complicated. Because we now have instant replay and reviews, we have to make the rules more and more precise, which them makes every play a penaltyfest. The officials call the ones that are blatant or that they think they should call ('he touched Tom!') and leave others alone. No wonder everyone is dissatisfied.

They need to simplify the rules. Allow holding on both offense and defense, but then give the other side some other rules concession to combat it. Make fewer things penalties and you'll call fewer penalties.

Holding calls are 75 percent of the problem these days if you really look at it, particularly defensive holding, and the other 25 percent is personal fouls and pass interference. No one complains about offsides or illegal motion or any of the other 500 rules in the book. So addressing those calls and finding a solution other than calling a penalty is the key.

The game is rapidly becoming unwatchable. I bet 25 to 35 percent of the Chiefs' offensive plays in the first quarter last week were nullified due to penalties. No one wants to watch that.

[TinyEvel]

Pretty soon they'll have a "smart ball" with a tracker in it that tells exactly how far the ball went on scrum carries and in-out of bounds reaches and OOB punts etc. Chain gang will be on the street looking for jobs.

[BigRedChief]

A person can claim conspiracy or incompetence or unconscious bias or simply that the game has become too complicated.

While I think more than one of those things exist, I think a very simple answer is that the game has become too complicated. Because we now have instant replay and reviews, we have to make the rules more and more precise, which them makes every play a penaltyfest. The officials call the ones that are blatant or that they think they should call ('he touched Tom!') and leave others alone. No wonder everyone is dissatisfied.

They need to simplify the rules. Allow holding on both offense and defense, but then give the other side some other rules concession to combat it. Make fewer things penalties and you'll call fewer penalties.

Holding calls are 75 percent of the problem these days if you really look at it, and the other 25 percent is personal fouls and pass interference. No one complains about offsides or illegal motion or any of the other 500 rules in the book. So addressing those calls and finding a solution other than calling a penalty is the key.

The game is rapidly becoming unwatchable. I bet 25 to 35 percent of the Chiefs' offensive plays in the first quarter were nullfied due to penalties. No one wants to watch that.I think an obvious difference why pass interference is so huge is the yardage. You can slam my QB into the ground and it’s 15 yards. Defender gets there a split second early, 40 yard penalty.

As far as holding goes, I never understood how lineman were allowed to wrap their arm completely around Hali’s neck and hold him back. But, this guy is bull rushing using his arm as leverage on his shoulder pad, that’s a penalty?

[Dayze]

A person can claim conspiracy or incompetence or unconscious bias or simply that the game has become too complicated.

While I think more than one of those things exist, I think a very simple answer is that the game has become too complicated. Because we now have instant replay and reviews, we have to make the rules more and more precise, which them makes every play a penaltyfest. The officials call the ones that are blatant or that they think they should call ('he touched Tom!') and leave others alone. No wonder everyone is dissatisfied.

They need to simplify the rules. Allow holding on both offense and defense, but then give the other side some other rules concession to combat it. Make fewer things penalties and you'll call fewer penalties.

Holding calls are 75 percent of the problem these days if you really look at it, particularly defensive holding, and the other 25 percent is personal fouls and pass interference. No one complains about offsides or illegal motion or any of the other 500 rules in the book. So addressing those calls and finding a solution other than calling a penalty is the key.

The game is rapidly becoming unwatchable. I bet 25 to 35 percent of the Chiefs' offensive plays in the first quarter last week were nullified due to penalties. No one wants to watch that.


I think I saw a stat or heard a stat in the beginning stages of the Houston game, where the Chiefs had ran 9 plays or something, and already had 5 penalties. Something ridiculous like that.

[iDeaL]

I think I saw a stat or heard a stat in the beginning stages of the Houston game, where the Chiefs had ran 9 plays or something, and already had 5 penalties. Something ridiculous like that.

The Chiefs had 5 offensive penalties in the first 5 minutes of the game, i believe, then picked up their 6th on their very next offensive play after the Texans following possession.

[Mecca]

Bellicheck wants everything reviewable. Which makes sense because your limited in the number of challenges available. But, what if they challenge 5 times and win all? Now they are getting 8 challenges, slowing down the game.

They’d have to impose a limit on total challenges even if they are successful.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you want a system to overturn poor calls on the field, then sure. But I&#39;m just warning you, you don&#39;t want a system where every single call is analyzed and changed. It will make games 5 hours long and unwatchable. The games aren&#39;t perfectly played <a href="https://t.co/KBdGPvoAWS">https://t.co/KBdGPvoAWS</a></p>&mdash; Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) <a href="https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz/status/1184099556927123457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[BigRedChief]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ten years ago the NFL averaged 11.8 penalties for 97.3 yards per game. Five years ago the averages were 13.2 penalties for 111.1 yards. This season NFL games average 14.9 penalties for 124.5 yards. The more the flags, the worse the game.</p>&mdash; Rick Gosselin (@RickGosselin9) <a href="https://twitter.com/RickGosselin9/status/1184112634750210048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[notorious]

Bellicheck wants everything reviewable. Which makes sense because your limited in the number of challenges available. But, what if they challenge 5 times and win all? Now they are getting 8 challenges, slowing down the game.

They’d have to impose a limit on total challenges even if they are successful.

You can't penalize a team simply because the refs fucked them one too many times.

[scho63]

If the NFL isn't careful, they are going to turn football into baseball and no one is watching that slowed down shit these days. Attendance declines year after year after year.

[BigRedChief]

You can't penalize a team simply because the refs ****ed them one too many times.thats the system now. There are limits.

[saphojunkie]

Pretty soon they'll have a "smart ball" with a tracker in it that tells exactly how far the ball went on scrum carries and in-out of bounds reaches and OOB punts etc. Chain gang will be on the street looking for jobs.

I advocated for this in the fucking 90s.

[-King-]

The sky judge is the only way they can fix this. A ref that can look at thrown flags and say whether it was the right call or not. Would only used for black and white type of flags only though. Like the hands on the face penalties yesterday.

[WhawhaWhat]

The level of play on the field is a bigger problem than the officiating. They need to let the players practice again.

[-King-]

I know it's not a silver bullet, but I still don't understand why the full-time ref concept wouldn't work. If nothing else, these guys should be reviewing calls and talking about it every week. Refs should have film review and practice just like the players.
I don't think the problem is that they're not full-time. The problem is that the game moves entirely too fast for them and most people. The only reason we know they fucked up most times is because we see the replay in slow mo. They don't. So them being full time wouldn't really fix anything.

[Rain Man]

I don't think the problem is that they're not full-time. The problem is that the game moves entirely too fast for them and most people. The only reason we know they ****ed up most times is because we see the replay in slow mo. They don't. So them being full time wouldn't really fix anything.

That's my thinking as well.

I think the biggest problem is inconsistency, though. Maybe extra training would help with that. And I think the inconsistency is a particular issue because it exposes the natural bias that refs have. It's why Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers get calls in their favor that other players don't get.

We didn't have these controversies in the past because we couldn't go back and watch to see if the ref was right. They were probably just as inconsistent in the 1970's, but no one could prove it. Now we can.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would be an NFL ref. It's a thankless job, and it requires split-second reasoning and an encyclopedic knowledge of the rules. I'm surprised we don't see more basic errors like misinterpreting a rule or placing the ball incorrectly on a penalty. It's a very hard and very high profile job.

[Hawker007]

The sky judge is the only way they can fix this. A ref that can look at thrown flags and say whether it was the right call or not. Would only used for black and white type of flags only though. Like the hands on the face penalties yesterday.

Except that this would probably be used similarly to how the challenges on PI are being handled this year. They won't overturn shit!

[-King-]

Except that this would probably be used similarly to how the challenges on PI are being handled this year. They won't overturn shit!

Like I said, it would only apply to black and white flags. There's no gray area on if Trey Flowers' hand was in Bahktiaris face or not. That's an easy fix

[gold_and_red]

Automatic first downs on DH, illegal contact are the real killer. You can't simply assess a 5 yard penalty on a 3rd & long and make it an automatic first down without impacting the balance of the game. DPI is another story. They need to be able to review every DPI (just like a turnover).
Didn't the game do just fine without all these tilted rules? Newsflash - Peyton Manning has retired, why have those around?

[Tribal Warfare]

The problem with that though is a lot of those guys don't want to be full time.

If the money is there they would be perfectly fine to be a referee as a profession

[smithandrew051]

A few ideas:
-Work to eliminate subjectivity from as many rules as possible.
-Booth refs watching the game that can communicate with the on field refs. I saw 3 uncalled OBVIOUS false starts result in touchdowns last year (LAC vs Cleveland, LAC vs Pittsburgh, LAR vs Chiefs). No reason that should happen in the NFL.
-Full time refs with performance based pay. Refs continually reviewed and penalized for poor performance.
-Personal Foul penalties should not offset with procedural penalties (or really any 5 yard penalty)
-Analytical analysis every week from the League to evaluate when flags are being thrown (blowouts, late in games vs early, home or away teams, etc). This should all even out over the course of enough games. If refs are being inconsistent on when they are throwing flags, they should be held accountable. Consistency should be the goal.

The day the league loses its legitimacy among a majority of fans is coming. Not saying the league isn’t legitimate, but the perception of the league is changing rapidly.

We’re getting closer to refs taking WWE style bumps and anything going while the ref is knocked out. Can’t wait to see Chris Jones hit Philip Rivers with a steel chair someday!

[iDeaL]

We’re getting closer to refs taking WWE style bumps and anything going while the ref is knocked out. Can’t wait to see Chris Jones hit Philip Rivers with a steel chair someday!

Now THAT would be entertainment.. I remember there was a football video game for Sega Genesis called "Mutant League Football". On defense, one of the plays you could call was simply "Kill the Ref", where the entire D would swarm and rip apart the referee. It resulted in a mere 15 yard penalty.

[Dartgod]

They are missing an opportunity to make officiating grades into another meta. Officials should have their game day grades posted each week, along with a seasonal grade. They could spend entire segments on it each week between games.

Hell yeah! Then we could have Fantasy Ref leagues.

[GloryDayz]

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He's right, you know...

Roger sez.....

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/sites/csnbayarea/files/styles/article_hero_image/public/2017/12/06/roger-goodell-laughing-ap.jpg?itok=lW1JhKq7

But at least the dude's trying.

[Megatron96]

I don't know what the fix is, but the fact remains that we're seeing far too many games being negatively impacted by flawed officiating. It's to the point that millions of fans are noticing and talking about it.

And it's more than just bad calls. Bad calls have always been a part of the game. In all professional sports, for that matter. Now we're not only getting bad calls, but also violations of the rules by officials. That shouldn't happen. That has to stop immediately.

[Rasputin]

Part of the reason they use lawyers and people from other professional occupations is theoretically they should be less likely to be paid off and bribed and are financially stable. Not sure I buy into that theory, but you don't want some shitbag who is hurting for money out there calling penalties either.


A guy making a living reffing games sign me up. I know i'd be bias so i couldn't ref AFC west games but if it was a job i'd treat it as such and I don't think a very well paid ref is going take bribes but you really want to trust a lawyer ?

I think a blue color guy is going call strait up more so than a lawyer.

[comochiefsfan]

Automatic first downs on DH, illegal contact are the real killer. You can't simply assess a 5 yard penalty on a 3rd & long and make it an automatic first down without impacting the balance of the game. DPI is another story. They need to be able to review every DPI (just like a turnover).
Didn't the game do just fine without all these tilted rules? Newsflash - Peyton Manning has retired, why have those around?

The automatic first downs are the crucial component that allows fixing games to be so easy.

The chosen team is struggling? Just call a ticky tack defensive holding penalty and BOOM. Automatic first down. Chosen team back on track.

[GloryDayz]

I don't know what the fix is, but the fact remains that we're seeing far too many games being negatively impacted by flawed officiating. It's to the point that millions of fans are noticing and talking about it.



And it's more than just bad calls. Bad calls have always been a part of the game. In all professional sports, for that matter. Now we're not only getting bad calls, but also violations of the rules by officials. That shouldn't happen. That has to stop immediately.Some of us saw it before others. But who's keeping score? LMAO

[GloryDayz]

The automatic first downs are the crucial component that allows fixing games to be so easy.



The chosen team is struggling? Just call a ticky tack defensive holding penalty and BOOM. Automatic first down. Chosen team back on track.100% truth right there. And if a DPI has the potential of being a 99 yard penalty because it's a spot foul, then OPI should be some equally dramatic. Perhaps 25 yards (or the 1 yard line if they inside the 24), or an automatic 4th down. And, while we're making things fair, a pushoff is OPI and a hold by the D in the secondary is the standard for holding, including when the O-line is holding the D.

I don't care if it results in low scoring games, make this shit fair.

Oh, I forgot, if QBs can do hard counts, that's fine, but the D should be allowed to play the same game and simulate the snaps. After all, the offence is supposed to know the snap count.

[Rain Man]

The automatic first downs are the crucial component that allows fixing games to be so easy.

The chosen team is struggling? Just call a ticky tack defensive holding penalty and BOOM. Automatic first down. Chosen team back on track.

Yeah, that's the problem. Defensive holding is really subjective and easy to call unless it's against Kelce, and it often awards the offensive team (usually the Patriots, but sometimes the Packers) with a free drive. A free drive is worth a lot.

Take away the automatic first down and it would help a fair bit.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Hunt needs on the right committee, so he can holler backlash

[displacedinMN]

the fact that the NFL over the last, what, 2 seasons...cut to 'rules experts' during the game tells you all you need to know about how messed up all of this is.

when networks need to employ 'rules experts' to explain to viewers why what they just witnessed is wrong.... you know your rule book is too large, complicated, and confusing.

add in the fact the 'rules experts' are probably receiving some compensation from the NFL to tow the line / protect the dumbass calls on the field.

I would rather be a rules expert in a booth than a ref on the field. When I can second guess anyone.

The whole thing is a crock.

[kcxiv]

It's bad enough when they make blatantly wrong calls. But then they go to review and still fuck it up.

They hired the motherfucker that blew the whistle on a sack fumble and claimed "forward progress" as one of their damn rules experts.

They don't want to get it right.

what i dont get is, if they didnt really see it, they shouldnt call it. Dont assume something, if you didnt clearly see it, dont call it.

I remember this great under seige 2 quote, only tthing good in that movie lol., "assumption is the mother of all fuck ups".

[Rain Man]

I would rather be a rules expert in a booth than a ref on the field. When I can second guess anyone.

The whole thing is a crock.

And I swear that it seems like the "rules expert" comes to a different conclusion than the guys on the field more than half the time. That's not even counting when the "rules expert" is Jeff Triplette who just randomly says stuff because he's incompetent.

[Beerthirty]

Full time refs
No replay
No Offensive holding at all. What I mean is no holding in tight is ok. No holding at all from Offensive linemen
Yes that gets the QB hit so run the ball more.
Know what a catch is because I sure don't know anymore.
I love the NFL because I grew up on it. I think it is a really bad product right now but I can never quit watching it but if this keeps up kids will not watch it.
.

[cdcox]

More penalties, more breaks for advertising, more talk about the NFL during the week.

Why would they want to fix this?

I haven't watched a moment of football since the badly officiated game Sunday. That used to be unheard of for me, but now it happens two or three times per year. Bad officiating is a big turnoff for me. I guess I'm not the only one.

[Imon Yourside]

I haven't watched a moment of football since the badly officiated game Sunday. That used to be unheard of for me, but now it happens two or three times per year. Bad officiating is a big turnoff for me. I guess I'm not the only one.

Same here I still can't get over the raping Kelce took and only HE got called for a penalty. We have the MVP and I feel like it's just stupid for me to watch thinking we have chance at winning anything.

I really don't want to turn this into that other thread but I'm having a hard time even wanting to watch our game much less any others.

[lmccluer]

Pretty soon they'll have a "smart ball" with a tracker in it that tells exactly how far the ball went on scrum carries and in-out of bounds reaches and OOB punts etc. Chain gang will be on the street looking for jobs.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[lmccluer]

Pretty soon they'll have a "smart ball" with a tracker in it that tells exactly how far the ball went on scrum carries and in-out of bounds reaches and OOB punts etc. Chain gang will be on the street looking for jobs.



The link up above says they already have RFID transmitters in balls to show location, etc. All it says are they are there, not how much they use it and for what it doesn’t say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[lmccluer]

I think I saw a stat or heard a stat in the beginning stages of the Houston game, where the Chiefs had ran 9 plays or something, and already had 5 penalties. Something ridiculous like that.



You are current, it was beyond ridiculous. And Houston was called as well.


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[Nzoner]

The automatic first downs are the crucial component that allows fixing games to be so easy.

The chosen team is struggling? Just call a ticky tack defensive holding penalty and BOOM. Automatic first down. Chosen team back on track.

100% truth right there. And if a DPI has the potential of being a 99 yard penalty because it's a spot foul, then OPI should be some equally dramatic. Perhaps 25 yards (or the 1 yard line if they inside the 24), or an automatic 4th down. And, while we're making things fair, a pushoff is OPI and a hold by the D in the secondary is the standard for holding, including when the O-line is holding the D.

I don't care if it results in low scoring games, make this shit fair.

Oh, I forgot, if QBs can do hard counts, that's fine, but the D should be allowed to play the same game and simulate the snaps. After all, the offence is supposed to know the snap count.

Yeah, that's the problem. Defensive holding is really subjective and easy to call unless it's against Kelce, and it often awards the offensive team (usually the Patriots, but sometimes the Packers) with a free drive. A free drive is worth a lot.

Take away the automatic first down and it would help a fair bit.

I've said it numerous times in other threads,go to a site like scores and odds on Sunday morning and write down the Vegas odds(point spread and total points) then click on expand details and check the betting percentages(money lines,spreads,totals).

Then keep up with as many games as possible or watch the highlight shows etc. and compare how some of these atrocious calls are affecting certain games outcomes.

Bottom line,gambling is at the heart of this whole mess and if you think that's going to change you're blind.In fact it's growing by the day as states all over are legalizing sports gambling.

[Mahomes_Is_God]

what i dont get is, if they didnt really see it, they shouldnt call it. Dont assume something, if you didnt clearly see it, dont call it.

I remember this great under seige 2 quote, only tthing good in that movie lol., "assumption is the mother of all fuck ups".
Under Siege 2 is a great movie, fuck you!

[KCUnited]

Maybe an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for any player lobbying for calls would help. Cut out all the politicking on the field.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/packers-lt-david-bakhtiari-says-he-influenced-refs-on-controversial-lions-penalties-230556255.html

Green Bay left tackle David Bakhtiari says he complained during the game to umpire Jeff Rice Detroit about defensive end Trey Flowers’ use of his hands.

“I went over to the ref,” Bakhtiari said in the postgame locker room, per Packers News. “I said, ‘Hey, are we not calling hands to the face again? Because the past three plays, I’ve been staring at the sky.’ And he’s like, you know, he’s not looking at my side, but I at least made him aware.”

After Bakhtiari says he complained, Flowers was flagged for a pair of controversial illegal-hands-to-the-face penalties that had a significant impact on the outcome of the game that the Packers won, 23-22.

[Coogs]

I think I saw a stat or heard a stat in the beginning stages of the Houston game, where the Chiefs had ran 9 plays or something, and already had 5 penalties. Something ridiculous like that.

That was actually one heck of a drive. It's not often you have one possession and your QB has 116 yards passing. LMAO

[mr. tegu]

I think simply changing the 5 yard automatic first down penalties would solve a huge portion of the complaints. Whether defensive holding or hands to the face, giving an automatic first down on third and long for those penalties is completely out of balance with the infraction.

There is no reason to assume if the penalty didn’t occur that the offense would make the play so giving them the automatic first down is over the top. And because those penalties are often subjective in their severity and impact on the actual play, but the flag definitely impacts the game often way beyond the penalty, it leaves a lot of room for questioning the flag and anger from fans.

[GloryDayz]

I've said it numerous times in other threads,go to a site like scores and odds on Sunday morning and write down the Vegas odds(point spread and total points) then click on expand details and check the betting percentages(money lines,spreads,totals).

Then keep up with as many games as possible or watch the highlight shows etc. and compare how some of these atrocious calls are affecting certain games outcomes.

Bottom line,gambling is at the heart of this whole mess and if you think that's going to change you're blind.In fact it's growing by the day as states all over are legalizing sports gambling.

While that really suggests a huge conspiracy, at this point the fan base may need to go there in order for the truth (whatever it is) to come out and explain why the officiating has apparently gotten so bad and biased.

And, honestly, with the "fucked" (by seeming ridiculous calls) owner staying publicly silent, is sure makes them appear to not care (to their fans). And, with players and coaches barfing-up the party line after each fucking, it sure seems like they don't care enough. I get the players toeing the line, they'll be fined then possibly out of work (if they're not a Manning or Brady), but the owners should have nothing to fear, so their silence is a lot more suspect.

[GloryDayz]

Maybe an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for any player lobbying for calls would help. Cut out all the politicking on the field.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/packers-lt-david-bakhtiari-says-he-influenced-refs-on-controversial-lions-penalties-230556255.html

I don't think that's a bad idea. Until it happens I sure wish our players would be a lot more animated about it (to the Manning and Brady levels), and make sure it gets put on the boob-tube for the world to see. And I'm NOT talking about QBs and WRs, I'm talking D-linemen getting very animated when they're held and it's not called. Not in the official's face (that's a no-no), but from a distance of 10-12 feet, let them, and the cameras see the held D-linemen tug their jersey and then a "WTH" body gesture.

After all, this isn't a sport, it's entertainment, right? Well, that's what the NFL claims...

Whatever it takes to drive the conversation about poor officiating is good by me until such a rule is put in place.

[Dayze]

I've said it numerous times in other threads,go to a site like scores and odds on Sunday morning and write down the Vegas odds(point spread and total points) then click on expand details and check the betting percentages(money lines,spreads,totals).

Then keep up with as many games as possible or watch the highlight shows etc. and compare how some of these atrocious calls are affecting certain games outcomes.

Bottom line,gambling is at the heart of this whole mess and if you think that's going to change you're blind.In fact it's growing by the day as states all over are legalizing sports gambling.

I did this last year for one week or two after reading your posts, and you're correct...there is some 'questionable' stuff going on. It's like clockwork when you're paying attention.

[scho63]

The Chiefs will probably be flagged for illegal motion while getting on the team plane for Denver.

[Nzoner]

While that really suggests a huge conspiracy, at this point the fan base may need to go there in order for the truth (whatever it is) to come out and explain why the officiating has apparently gotten so bad and biased.

And, honestly, with the "****ed" (by seeming ridiculous calls) owner staying publicly silent, is sure makes them appear to not care (to their fans). And, with players and coaches barfing-up the party line after each ****ing, it sure seems like they don't care enough. I get the players toeing the line, they'll be fined then possibly out of work (if they're not a Manning or Brady), but the owners should have nothing to fear, so their silence is a lot more suspect.

I realize what it suggests but in the big picture with the asinine money that is flowing do you really think owners and/or most players really care about a trophy?

[Lzen]

Some of those guys are lawyers and shit.

All the more reason to hate them.

[GloryDayz]

I realize what it suggests but in the big picture with the asinine money that is flowing do you really think owners and/or most players really care about a trophy?

No. That's one reason people around here sometime talk mean to me (LMAO), I don't think Clark really cares too much as long as the annual check keeps rolling in, fans pay $60 to park, Arrowhead is spoken of very highly as one of the NFL's "Great stadiums", and the stands are full. Honestly I think he'd like a trophy, but not at the expense of indirect cash lining his pockets.

If he did care, IMO, we would have seen at least one blow-up in the years he's been in control.

[GloryDayz]

All the more reason to hate them.

Quality post...

[Rain Man]

I realize what it suggests but in the big picture with the asinine money that is flowing do you really think owners and/or most players really care about a trophy?

Oddly, I was going to suggest the opposite. If you're making huge money, do you really care about another million? It's not going to change your life. So I would think that you would start looking for other worlds to conquer.

[DeepPurple]

In minor league baseball (The Atlantic League) they have experimented this past year with robot umpires using software provided by Trackman. They're real umpires but have an earpiece that will tell them balls and strikes. Home plate umpires continue to rule on check swings, foul tips, catcher’s interference and plays at the plate.

https://www.12up.com/posts/video-1st-game-with-robot-umps-a-roaring-success-in-atlantic-league-all-star-matchup-01dfgwjrd29f

I don't see why they cannot have a ref in a skybox with monitors and an direct earpiece to the head umpire. Such as the case Monday when Lions DB Tracy Walker was flagged for unnecessary roughness when on replay you could easily see he was trying to intercept the ball and was not making a hit on the receiver. Of course we are all aware of the two "Hands to the Face" calls that were phantom, and could of been corrected. If the TV announcers have enough time to comment about the incorrectness of the calls, a booth reviewer has enough time to tell the ref, pick up the flag, it's not roughing, or hands to the face.


https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/833/100/hi-res-e363469de0619b6f99f7dfd755b8b33f_crop_north.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top

[GloryDayz]

In minor league baseball (The Atlantic League) they have experimented this past year with robot umpires using software provided by Trackman. They're real umpires but have an earpiece that will tell them balls and strikes. Home plate umpires continue to rule on check swings, foul tips, catcher’s interference and plays at the plate.

https://www.12up.com/posts/video-1st-game-with-robot-umps-a-roaring-success-in-atlantic-league-all-star-matchup-01dfgwjrd29f

I don't see why they cannot have a ref in a skybox with monitors and an direct earpiece to the head umpire. Such as the case Monday when Lions DB Tracy Walker was flagged for unnecessary roughness when on replay you could easily see he was trying to intercept the ball and was not making a hit on the receiver. Of course we are all aware of the two "Hands to the Face" calls that were phantom, and could of been corrected. If the TV announcers have enough time to comment about the incorrectness of the calls, a booth reviewer has enough time to tell the ref, pick up the flag, it's not roughing, or hands to the face.


https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/833/100/hi-res-e363469de0619b6f99f7dfd755b8b33f_crop_north.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=topSadly they explained that it's up to the defence to ensure helmet-to-helmet doesn't happen. Another anti-D rule, shocking. Meanwhile every RB I the league lowers his head and rams the line with the crown of his Hemet hitting defenders who are helpless as they are already engaged with a man trying to block him.

NFL things.

[BlackHelicopters]

What is every teams cut of TV money annually? 150M?

[Megatron96]

Ultimately, the fix is to call less penalties. The more flags that are thrown, the less watchable the games are. 98% of the time the officials get the call right on the field anyway.

Get rid of replay. And at least half the time they go to replay, they get it wrong anyway, which is when it becomes the most aggravating.

Let the game be decided on the field between the teams/players.

[Nzoner]

Oddly, I was going to suggest the opposite. If you're making huge money, do you really care about another million? It's not going to change your life. So I would think that you would start looking for other worlds to conquer.

Jones and Kraft both have investments in Draft Kings daily fantasy sports which raked in over 200 million last year..I think to most of the owners enough will never be enough.

[MightyMouse]

No official or game is gonna get played out played perfectly and someone will always complain but this has been going down hill for awhile and the only fix is stop throwing so many flags.
This will lead to less complaining and make games more watchable. One of the reasons for increase in penalties started with the nfl wanting more points so they went to the illegal contact and increased flags on the dbacks in general. The hope was players would adjust and this would lead to weak coverage and more yards and points. The problem is no player is gonna just going to lay off and and get beat over and over. They are coached to be physical. I don’t don’t care about weak grabs and bumps down the field.
The other thing that needs to go is the yearly calls that get emphasized. That’s just literally the refs to call more flags on for this particular reason and they go nuts. It’s like a cop who doesn’t write enough tickets for a certain reason or meet a “quota.”
I don’t how many people watch much nba but the regular season can be unwatchable at times because they call so many fouls. In the playoffs (especially a game 7) they seem to back of the calls andjuat the teams play and it’s so much more enjoyable. If sports as whole would make a point to let the guys play and only call the obvious ones that they CLEARLY see then the game would be better.
The other thing that I think is getting worse is that players are working officials for more calls and it’s starting to look like flopping in soccer at times. These refs throw flags they may not see well but once they see a certain reaction some throw a flag assuming the guy went down or was turned because of holding. Look at the illegal contact player in the pack game. The players head went back and the ref so flowers hand close to the face mask so he called it. He couldn’t have actually seen something that didn’t happen, just assumed it must have based on the action. If you can’t say you definitely saw it then don’t call it.

[Chiefaholic]

I don't know what the fix is, but the fact remains that we're seeing far too many games being negatively impacted by flawed officiating. It's to the point that millions of fans are noticing and talking about it.

And it's more than just bad calls. Bad calls have always been a part of the game. In all professional sports, for that matter. Now we're not only getting bad calls, but also violations of the rules by officials. That shouldn't happen. That has to stop immediately.

"Forward progress".... Chiefs eliminated from playoffs
"Offsides".... Chiefs eliminated from the Superbowl

[lmccluer]

Sadly they explained that it's up to the defence to ensure helmet-to-helmet doesn't happen. Another anti-D rule, shocking. Meanwhile every RB I the league lowers his head and rams the line with the crown of his Hemet hitting defenders who are helpless as they are already engaged with a man trying to block him.

NFL things.



I have seen this more and more thus year, and in fact was complaining out loud during the Packers game. Why can runners (even the Chiefs, my team) lower their heads, and plow head first into a defender? Why is that not the same as what they call on a defender? It’s freaking ridiculous!!


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[JakeF]

How do you fix it? You can bet your ass if the owners knew how they would do it. They won't want to deal with all these shit.

[BlackOp]

How do you fix it? You can bet your ass if the owners knew how they would do it. They won't want to deal with all these shit.

Wont?...they dont care if it makes them $200+ mil for doing nothing. They literally do nothing but have luncheons a few times year.

This is why they let Kraft/Goodell have carte blanche...if that new money goes away...they will take notice.

Are fans so disconnected that dont understand how much money $230 million a year is...every year? Would you give a shit...for the sake of winning some low-brow football game?

Since Reid took over the Chiefs...Clark has made almost 1.5 billion...as has the owner of the Browns...and watched their franchises value skyrocket.

[JakeF]

Wont?...they dont care if it makes them $200 mil for doing nothing. They literally do nothing but have luncheons a few times year.

This is why they let Kraft/Goodell have carte blanche...if that new money goes away...they will take notice.
bad typing, should be *don't want to deal with all these shit*

They want to rake in the money and be left alone. They can't do that with constant problems with rules and officiating.

[GloryDayz]

I have seen this more and more thus year, and in fact was complaining out loud during the Packers game. Why can runners (even the Chiefs, my team) lower their heads, and plow head first into a defender? Why is that not the same as what they call on a defender? It’s freaking ridiculous!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

At the root of it, the only thing that matters, is because the NFL wants games with 70-90 points scored. If they need to defend another pro-Offense rule, they'll call it "player safety" (can't hardly touch a QB), if it would lower score, they ignore it (ending the crossing route to avoid hard hits).

[ChiefsFanatic]

A person can claim conspiracy or incompetence or unconscious bias or simply that the game has become too complicated.

While I think more than one of those things exist, I think a very simple answer is that the game has become too complicated. Because we now have instant replay and reviews, we have to make the rules more and more precise, which them makes every play a penaltyfest. The officials call the ones that are blatant or that they think they should call ('he touched Tom!') and leave others alone. No wonder everyone is dissatisfied.

They need to simplify the rules. Allow holding on both offense and defense, but then give the other side some other rules concession to combat it. Make fewer things penalties and you'll call fewer penalties.

Holding calls are 75 percent of the problem these days if you really look at it, particularly defensive holding, and the other 25 percent is personal fouls and pass interference. No one complains about offsides or illegal motion or any of the other 500 rules in the book. So addressing those calls and finding a solution other than calling a penalty is the key.

The game is rapidly becoming unwatchable. I bet 25 to 35 percent of the Chiefs' offensive plays in the first quarter last week were nullified due to penalties. No one wants to watch that.I think that NFL refs should be required to answer questions in a press conference after each game. They should have to publicly answer for every questionable or flat out wrong call they made, and their names should be published in every article along with their excuses for bad, questionable, or blown calls.

Right now they are free to make bad calls without any repercussions. If the refs that missed the PI call against the Saints had to answer for their blatant incompetence, and their names were included in every article written about that game since then, and their public and professional reputations suffered because they would forever be linked to the scandal of that non-call, maybe all refs would have a reason to get better at their jobs.

Right now they can blatantly manipulate the outcome of a game, and walk out of the stadium in street clothes, and return to living their lives in anonymity, so they have no reason to do their jobs better.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[GloryDayz]

I think that NFL refs should be required to answer questions in a press conference after each game. They should have to publicly answer for every questionable or flat out wrong call they made, and their names should be published in every article along with their excuses for bad, questionable, or blown calls.

Right now they are free to make bad calls without any repercussions. If the refs that missed the PI call against the Saints had to answer for their blatant incompetence, and their names were included in every article written about that game since then, and their public and professional reputations suffered because they would forever be linked to the scandal of that non-call, maybe all refs would have a reason to get better at their jobs.

Right now they can blatantly manipulate the outcome of a game, and walk out of the stadium in street clothes, and return to living their lives in anonymity, so they have no reason to do their jobs better.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Yep. For a league that calls the number of the man that just fucked-up, not that that's wrong, SHOULD have the officials identified, and visibly penalized for making mistakes. And mistakes SHOULD be missed holds when an O-lineman grabs or tugs the jersey of a rusher, no differently than they call on the D when they tug a WR's jersey.