Let’s revisit Chris Jones

[RunKC]

Okay, so we know this guy wants Frank Clark money. We wanted him to take Fletcher Cox money.

It’s a contract year from him and here is what he has done through about half the season:

2 sacks
8 tackles
2 TFL
7 QB hits

He’s hurt again, which I believe is his 3rd injury since being here. Fortunately none of them are major.

So, do you try to resign this guy for Fletcher Cox money ($18 million AAV-cap rise means more due to %) or do you trade him?

If you want to trade him, what do you expect his market to be if he only gets 4 sacks this season?

[Flying High D]

Maybe get a 2nd that was wasted on Frankie.

[Toad]

Jones is a good tag and trade candidate. If they don’t receive a min 1st round offer, then he plays on the tag for a year (or 2).

[ModSocks]

This team isn't in a position to trade away 1 of only 2 players that have done anything worth a shit on defense.

TALENT WINS GAMES.

Stop trying to trade away talent.

You'd think ya'll motherfuckers would learn this shit by now.

[ModSocks]

You wanted a defense with a bunch of JAGS all offseason and now you got it. And now you wanna trade away one of 2 guys that isn't a shitter?

:facepalm:

Seriously, ya'll never fucking learn. Never.

[Jerm]

Can't tie up 2 huge deals on the defensive line...they fucked up by paying Clark over Jones, not that I would've given Jones what he wanted to begin with.

Tag and trade him in the offseason.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

No... Jones wants Aaron Donald money

[RunKC]

You wanted a defense with a bunch of JAGS all offseason and now you got it. And now you wanna trade away one of 2 guys that isn't a shitter?

:facepalm:

Seriously, ya'll never ****ing learn. Never.

Eric Berry
Justin Houston
Frank Clark

That’s who we paid big money to and look at what happened? There’s a whole other side to this.

[Buehler445]

You wanted a defense with a bunch of JAGS all offseason and now you got it. And now you wanna trade away one of 2 guys that isn't a shitter?

:facepalm:

Seriously, ya'll never fucking learn. Never.

I need 11 guys that can play. Not 4 stars and 7 Phillip Gaines.

[493rd]

Let’s just start another 5-yr plan with the defense.

[dannybcaitlyn]

I’m paying the man. Too much talent!

[Buehler445]

My hope is that if his production stays down that cooler heads will prevail and he’ll sign a more reasonable contract.

[ModSocks]

Eric Berry
Justin Houston
Frank Clark

That’s who we paid big money to and look at what happened? There’s a whole other side to this.

Eric Berry and Justin Houston gave you All-Pro seasons, and in their prime gave you a premier defense.

You can't just be gun shy about paying elite players.

Every time this argument comes up i say the same shit. And ya'll essentially argue that we should have a team full of JAGS.

Well here's your defense full of JAGS. Enjoy.

[ModSocks]

I need 11 guys that can play. Not 4 stars and 7 Phillip Gaines.

It's apparently difficult to even find 2 guys that can play.

Gutting the talent is not the solution. It doesn't make you just happen to find guys.

You need guys you can depend on week by week. Chris Jones has basically given you a sack every goddamn game he's played in since the start of last season.

Then you build around those kind of guys.

[Wallcrawler]

The Clark deal looks terrible, but one could argue that Spags is not using him to the best of his ability. This guy was good in Seattle. He and Jones on the line should have been a recipe for havoc, but somehow it hasnt been.

That said, Jones is the best Dt In the league not named Aaron Donald. You have to keep him.

If anyone goes, it has to be Spagnuolo for not getting production out of talented players.

Even Honey Badger has looked pretty unspectacular in Spags' scheme.

Its one of the main reasons our D is so frustrating, because even our best players look like shit.

[Buehler445]

It's apparently difficult to even find 2 guys that can play.

Gutting the talent is not the solution. It doesn't make you just happen to find guys.

You need guys you can depend on week by week. Chris Jones has basically given you a sack every goddamn game he's played in since the start of last season.

Then you build around those kind of guys.

All that sounds good. And normally I’d agree. But if you’d give me the choice between like or 2016 defense that had a shitload of names but wasn’t very productive or 11 no name guys that can play I’m taking the no namers.

I just have trouble paying dudes not named mahomes at the top of the market. Jones comes down a little bit and I’m all over that like stink on shit.

[Flying High D]

Slags would serve a prime rib dinner with a salad that would give everybody food poisoning. The prime rib was great, too bad the salad made everybody wish they were dead.

[ModSocks]

All that sounds good. And normally I’d agree. But if you’d give me the choice between like or 2016 defense that had a shitload of names but wasn’t very productive or 11 no name guys that can play I’m taking the no namers.

I just have trouble paying dudes not named mahomes at the top of the market. Jones comes down a little bit and I’m all over that like stink on shit.

Here's the problem, 11-no name guys that can play isn't a thing. That's not real. It's pure fiction.

When you put 11- no name guys on a defense you get a really, really shitty defense more often than not.

Right now you are witnessing a defense with 9-no name guys who everyone here was piping all off-season as being "good enough".

When you have talent you do your best to maintain those guys and you build around them. When you completely nuke a roster and start from scratch with a bunch of JAGS you get the 2019 Chiefs defense.

[RunKC]

Eric Berry and Justin Houston gave you All-Pro seasons, and in their prime gave you a premier defense.

You can't just be gun shy about paying elite players.

Every time this argument comes up i say the same shit. And ya'll essentially argue that we should have a team full of JAGS.

Well here's your defense full of JAGS. Enjoy.

Their best years were in contract seasons. Didn’t do anything once they got paid.

And yes an older banged up Chris Jones scares the shit out of me. He’s been hurt in 2 of 3 playoff games.

I’m okay paying him, but it has to protect us. It needs to be something like 4 years with most of the guaranteed $$ up front with a way out after 2 years.

[scho63]

NO MORE BIG CONTRACTS! They have ALL been a complete waste

[MIAdragon]

Jones is a good tag and trade candidate. If they don’t receive a min 1st round offer, then he plays on the tag for a year (or 2).

He won’t play on the tag.

[Gravedigger]

Tag and trade him. He has a Justin Houston feel to him.

[BossChief]

I want to see how he does when he returns. What he brings to the defense down the stretch and in the playoffs will dictate his value in an extension. It’s on CJ95 to prove that he’s worth elite money.

Veach and Jones would be smart to agree on a short term extension. Keeping CJ95 in KC while KC matures as a team will let CJ95 either step up or show he can’t. That plan would allow Jones to get another payday at age 27/28 to max out his career earnings, as well. I’m sure with the new CBA in place by then, he and his agent would love that type of extension.

Something like 2 year extension for 38m. 18m next year and 20m in 2021. Some kind of financial incentive towards improving his run defense would be smart.

[Hammock Parties]

Like I said in the offseason, he's always been a bit nicked up, and this is why they were reluctant to pay him most likely.

It's only going to get worse the older he gets.

No way I give him anything.

[Tribal Warfare]

Like I said in the offseason, he's always been a bit nicked up, and this is why they were reluctant to pay him most likely.

It's only going to get worse the older he gets.

No way I give him anything.

Yep, I was referring to his injury issues in the offseason, but I was flamed for mentioning .

I was told Chris Jones isn't injury prone, and shouldn't be worried about it.

Huh, it was a similar response when I inferred that the Chiefs should acquire a feature back in the draft somewhere in the 1st to 3rd round before the Colts game.

The idea is protecting the investment which is PMII so he doesn't have go into GODE MODE every game.

[FAH-Q]

The Clark deal really hamstrings anything you try to do with another linemen, and the one thing I have learned from past mistakes the Chiefs have made is you do not pay elite money to players who aren’t elite at everything. Jones is an awesome pass rusher, but his run defense is not good, and is nowhere near elite. This team has got to get better at handing out big contracts, because I can’t think of one recently that they’ve actually gotten a good return on. This is obviously going to be even more important once we resign Mahomes.

[Hammock Parties]

we're gonna need the Jones money anyway for Mahomes....if you dump Jones and Watkins you are gonna have a lot of room to play with in FA on defenders who can actually stop the run and people who can block

[BossChief]

we're gonna need the Jones money anyway for Mahomes....if you dump Jones and Watkins you are gonna have a lot of room to play with in FA on defenders who can actually stop the run and people who can block

You’re better than this.

[Hammock Parties]

You’re better than this.

no, you are

chris jones is not long for KC

[RunKC]

If we could do a deal similar to Grady Jarrett, it would be ideal. That guy is making $42 million compared to Cox’s $63 million, but that’s bc his contract is 2 years shorter.

Give him $50 million guaranteed on a 4 year deal structures like this:

<iframe src="https://overthecap.com/contract-embed/3985/" width="600" height="313" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

First year cap hit is low, 2nd year is manageable and we could post June 1st his ass and after 2 years and have minimal damage.

[BossChief]

Terez said the cap money we have is earmarked for Jones. Veach has said re-signing CJ95 is a priority. The salary cap is going to completely explode over the next 5 years. The only reason Jones isn’t here next year is if we get a crazy deal for him or he comes back after injury ineffective

[Chargem]

I'd like to keep Jones, but if you can get a 1st and a 2nd in 2020 for him that's pretty tempting.

[loochy]

Tag and trade him. He has a Justin Houston feel to him.

You mean he'll buttrape us on a Sunday night game after we get rid of him?

[Toad]

He won’t play on the tag.

That would be his option of course, but no one knows that for sure.

[Warrick]

Sign him to a reasonable deal.

[ChiefoftheKeyboard]

The Clark deal looks terrible, but one could argue that Spags is not using him to the best of his ability. This guy was good in Seattle. He and Jones on the line should have been a recipe for havoc, but somehow it hasnt been.

That said, Jones is the best Dt In the league not named Aaron Donald. You have to keep him.

If anyone goes, it has to be Spagnuolo for not getting production out of talented players.

Even Honey Badger has looked pretty unspectacular in Spags' scheme.

Its one of the main reasons our D is so frustrating, because even our best players look like shit.
They’re still learning the scheme. Clark has been 1v1 76% of the time and hasn’t done shit. That’s not on spags

[Chiefnj2]

First 2 weeks - the defense is improved, if we trade for a corner we will win the Super Bowl.

Last 2 weeks - fire everyone. They all suck.

[Buehler445]

Here's the problem, 11-no name guys that can play isn't a thing. That's not real. It's pure fiction.

When you put 11- no name guys on a defense you get a really, really shitty defense more often than not.

Right now you are witnessing a defense with 9-no name guys who everyone here was piping all off-season as being "good enough".

When you have talent you do your best to maintain those guys and you build around them. When you completely nuke a roster and start from scratch with a bunch of JAGS you get the 2019 Chiefs defense.

I know nobody can replicate what the cheatriots can do, but they can do it. I know they paid Mayo a ton and some other guys got paid, but typically they fill out the roster with dudes that don't make that much money.

For my money, give me Hussain Abdullah instead of Eric Berry. Berry was the better player, but the production per unit salary cap was better for Abdullah.

[Easy 6]

Tag and trade him. He has a Justin Houston feel to him.

This is where I’m at, at the moment

While you’d hate to lose the raw talent, we need to see a new level of dedication and coachability before ponying up top money

[Hammock Parties]

First 2 weeks - the defense is improved, if we trade for a corner we will win the Super Bowl.

Last 2 weeks - fire everyone. They all suck.

Planet is so fucking myopic.

I, for one, am glad for Steady Andy.

[Chiefaholic]

No... Jones wants Aaron Donald money

That would be great if he was actually in Aaron Donald's level of talent. NOBODY in the entire NFL is even close to Donald's level. Unlike our $20 million DE, Donald isn't stopped by just one man unless he's playing hurt. Chris Jones is a great athlete who I feel is abandoning his assignment to get into the backfield to get "his sack" to raise his asking price. But, in no way, shape, or form is he worth Donald's contract. If that's the only way he stay's here, trade him and bring in guys who know how to fundamentally tackle and don't give a rat's ass about individual stats.

[RunKC]

Here's the problem, 11-no name guys that can play isn't a thing. That's not real. It's pure fiction.

When you put 11- no name guys on a defense you get a really, really shitty defense more often than not.

Right now you are witnessing a defense with 9-no name guys who everyone here was piping all off-season as being "good enough".

When you have talent you do your best to maintain those guys and you build around them. When you completely nuke a roster and start from scratch with a bunch of JAGS you get the 2019 Chiefs defense.

Something to think about Detox. “No name guys” or unproven guys have been performing better than the highly paid. Not all have been great but a lot have performed well.

Damien Williams (last season and this season)
Byron Pringle
Juan Thornhill
Mecole Hardman
Charvarious Ward
Emmanuel Ogbah
Tanoh Kpassagnon

Martinas Rankin is TBD but he did look good in his first game.

Need to see an influx of these guys being brought in.

[Bwana]

Tag and trade.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Something to think about Detox. “No name guys” or unproven guys have been performing better than the highly paid. Not all have been great but a lot have performed well.

Damien Williams (last season and this season)
Byron Pringle
Juan Thornhill
Mecole Hardman
Charvarious Ward
Emmanuel Ogbah
Tanoh Kpassagnon

Martinas Rankin is TBD but he did look good in his first game.

Need to see an influx of these guys being brought in.

Darrel Williams too!! Veach has gotten more production from his 2018 UDFA then he has his entire 2018 draft class

[SuperBowl4]

Chris Jones also predicted the CHIEFS would be in the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME last January!

[Chiefnj2]

The problem is that he appears to be average at best in run defense. I don't know if thst is because he is freelancing, or he just isn't good at it.

Buffalo has one of the best Ds this year. If you look at the stats of their DTs, they look atrocious. Their job is to occupy blockers and let the LBs make plays. Not glamorous, but very effective.

I'm not sure if Jones is willing to sacrifice himself like that for the betterment of the run D if needed.

[Valiant]

It's apparently difficult to even find 2 guys that can play.

Gutting the talent is not the solution. It doesn't make you just happen to find guys.

You need guys you can depend on week by week. Chris Jones has basically given you a sack every goddamn game he's played in since the start of last season.

Then you build around those kind of guys.

Giving top tier contracts to people that may under perform them is worse.
But none of that matters until we get a good d coordinator and change the culture of the defense.
Draft replacements. New England seems to do it year in year out. When they want the fat contract, trade. Only keep bonifide allpros.

[el borracho]

The situation is complicated by the fact that Veach has not earned anybody’s trust in the draft. Even if the Chiefs received fair compensation for Jones, does anybody believe Veach will maximize that compensation? I don’t.

[notorious]

Fuck each and every last mother fucker that has been a part of the defense for the last 2 1/2 years.

Draft guys that will be disciplined and do their fucking job.

[Sofa King]

**** each and every last mother ****er that has been a part of the defense for the last 2 1/2 years.

Draft guys that will be disciplined and do their ****ing job.

Coaches are supposed to teach discipline. Just sayin...

[notorious]

Coaches are supposed to teach discipline. Just sayin...

100% correct.

A team will also display the personality of their coach.

[BigCatDaddy]

Coaches are supposed to teach discipline. Just sayin...

That you Keitzman?

[SuperBowl4]

GO :arrow::rockon::arrow::rockon::arrow::rockon::arrow::rockon::arrow::rockon::thumb:

[SuperBowl4]

**** each and every last mother ****er that has been a part of the defense for the last 2 1/2 years.

Draft guys that will be disciplined and do their ****ing job.It's not their fault they were drafted/signed by the CHIEFS. :)

[redfan]

Dangit 'tox keeps writing JAGS and I'm seeing AIDS

[Megatron96]

I've been a bit rough on Chris Jones this season. However, after looking at the big picture, I think the Chiefs should give him a real opportunity to improve over the next two or three years. I think if Spags could have him for a couple years, Chris might become a real Pro-Bowl all-around DT.

The reason I think that has to do with how he handled his hold-out situation. He could've held out, but he reported to camp like a team player. That shows some part of him wants to be on the team and that he respects his teammates. We want guys like that on the team.

Further, he's the best DT we have from a physicality and athletic standpoint. He just needs to be molded into something better against the run.

And he's young; this is just his third year in the league. He still has a lot to learn and he hasn't reached his prime years yet. Even if he's a slow learner, he's going to be a lot better in just two years.

[ModSocks]

Dangit 'tox keeps writing JAGS and I'm seeing AIDS

LMAO

[keg in kc]

I've been a bit rough on Chris Jones this season. However, after looking at the big picture, I think the Chiefs should give him a real opportunity to improve over the next two or three years. I think if Spags could have him for a couple years, Chris might become a real Pro-Bowl all-around DT.

The reason I think that has to do with how he handled his hold-out situation. He could've held out, but he reported to camp like a team player. That shows some part of him wants to be on the team and that he respects his teammates. We want guys like that on the team.

Further, he's the best DT we have from a physicality and athletic standpoint. He just needs to be molded into something better against the run.

And he's young; this is just his third year in the league. He still has a lot to learn and he hasn't reached his prime years yet. Even if he's a slow learner, he's going to be a lot better in just two years.I don't get the obsession with his run defense. Pass rush, particularly up the middle, is the only way to stop the present day split-second passing game in the NFL, and that disparity is only going to grow as back 7 defensive players keep getting jobbed more and more by the rules. There's a reason Aaron Donald got a $135 million contract last year, and it has nothing to do with how he holds up in the run game.

The fastest path to a QB is straight at him and Jones has an undeniable gift there. Don't get so caught up in trying to find the perfect player that you miss the exceptional one.

[Megatron96]

I don't get the obsession with his run defense. Pass rush, particularly up the middle, is the only way to stop the present day split-second passing game in the NFL, and that disparity is only going to grow as back 7 defensive players keep getting jobbed more and more by the rules. There's a reason Aaron Donald got a $135 million contract last year, and it has nothing to do with how he holds up in the run game.

The fastest path to a QB is straight at him and Jones has an undeniable gift there. Don't get so caught up in trying to find the perfect player that you miss the exceptional one.

Aaron is a mutant. You can't compare anyone other than another mutant to a mutant. That aside, he's better than Jones against the run.

And I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that Jones needs to turn himself into a best run defender on the team. I just think his overall game will be better if he at least plays his gap assignments correctly 90% of the time. And it'll help the team. So if he plays the run better, we win more games, or we should mathematically speaking.

[ModSocks]

Aaron is a mutant. You can't compare anyone other than another mutant to a mutant. That aside, he's better than Jones against the run.

And I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that Jones needs to turn himself into a best run defender on the team. I just think his overall game will be better if he at least plays his gap assignments correctly 90% of the time. And it'll help the team. So if he plays the run better, we win more games, or we should mathematically speaking.

You don't know his gap assignments and what % he's missed on.

And for as much love as Aaron Donald gets, the Rams boasted a 5.1 YPC Rush defense last season, good enough for dead last in the league. But i'm sure the Rams are just kicking themselves for re-signing Donald.

[Easy 6]

I don't get the obsession with his run defense. Pass rush, particularly up the middle, is the only way to stop the present day split-second passing game in the NFL, and that disparity is only going to grow as back 7 defensive players keep getting jobbed more and more by the rules. There's a reason Aaron Donald got a $135 million contract last year, and it has nothing to do with how he holds up in the run game.

The fastest path to a QB is straight at him and Jones has an undeniable gift there. Don't get so caught up in trying to find the perfect player that you miss the exceptional one.

Tons of truth in this post

But I also think you’re underestimating how his apparent freelancing can have a domino effect on the entire unit... the sacks are great, but when he guesses wrong it fucks what may have been the perfect call for that play

[Chiefshrink]

You mean he'll buttrape us on a Sunday night game after we get rid of him?

No he won't because he got paid. We need to hit in the draft PERIOD Bellichek learned this many moons ago that once somebody gets big $$ in FA very rarely do they ever match their play with the $$ they received. You hit consistently in the draft then FA signings are a heckuva a lot less and easier on the cap. And then when it is apparent you need to sign a FA it will be done on our terms($$) not the player's because we have built good depth.

[Megatron96]

You don't know his gap assignments and what % he's missed on.

And for as much love as Aaron Donald gets, the Rams boasted a 5.1 YPC Rush defense last season, good enough for dead last in the league. But i'm sure the Rams are just kicking themselves for re-signing Donald.

You're right I don't know for sure what his assignments have been. I'm guess-timating based on what the other defensive linemen are doing and the results of the play. But at the end of the day they're just SWAGs.

As for Aaron, what I meant was that a lot of times it's really hard to tell just what his assignment was; he blows through the line so fast a lot of times that I honestly don't know exactly what he was supposed to be doing in the scheme/design of the play. But he does get to the QB so quickly that even if he doesn't make the tackle on the RB he disrupts the play anyway.

Chris isn't that type of player. Hell, I can't really think of anyone that is. Which is what I meant about being a mutant.

It's like Barry Sanders. Sanders was a mutant. As such he didn't usually hit the hole as designed. It either wasn't there because his OL didn't create one, or he just chose to run elsewhere.

With a lesser RB that'd be a real problem. With Barry, well, you take what he gives you because he's a mutant.

[Chief Roundup]

Okay, so we know this guy wants Frank Clark money. We wanted him to take Fletcher Cox money.

It’s a contract year from him and here is what he has done through about half the season:

2 sacks
8 tackles
2 TFL
7 QB hits

He’s hurt again, which I believe is his 3rd injury since being here. Fortunately none of them are major.

So, do you try to resign this guy for Fletcher Cox money ($18 million AAV-cap rise means more due to %) or do you trade him?

If you want to trade him, what do you expect his market to be if he only gets 4 sacks this season?

Those stats are for about 4.5 games, which is a lot closer to 1/4 of the season than 1/2 the season.
Your OP is a fail from the very beginning.

[TEX]

Okay, so we know this guy wants Frank Clark money. We wanted him to take Fletcher Cox money.

It’s a contract year from him and here is what he has done through about half the season:

2 sacks
8 tackles
2 TFL
7 QB hits

He’s hurt again, which I believe is his 3rd injury since being here. Fortunately none of them are major.

So, do you try to resign this guy for Fletcher Cox money ($18 million AAV-cap rise means more due to %) or do you trade him?

If you want to trade him, what do you expect his market to be if he only gets 4 sacks this season?

You fucking push Frank Clark off a cliff, keep Jones and give him Frank's contract. Next.

[Chris Meck]

I don't get the obsession with his run defense. Pass rush, particularly up the middle, is the only way to stop the present day split-second passing game in the NFL, and that disparity is only going to grow as back 7 defensive players keep getting jobbed more and more by the rules. There's a reason Aaron Donald got a $135 million contract last year, and it has nothing to do with how he holds up in the run game.

The fastest path to a QB is straight at him and Jones has an undeniable gift there. Don't get so caught up in trying to find the perfect player that you miss the exceptional one.

You're wrong though.

Donald got that money because he's a STUD at all facets of the game.

Sacks are the splashy plays, but the fact that Donald controls the game in his area all around is why he got so much money.

As I've said since last January when I wanted to sign and trade Ford and release Houston, sacks are only part of the story.

If Jones wants Donald money, we should tag and trade him.

if he wants something in line with an excellent pass rusher but below average run defender, then we can talk. If he wants DONALD MONEY, then he needs to play as well all around as Donald.