***Official 2019-2020 Missouri Tigers Basketball Thread***

[dlphg9]

So since no one else is going to start this thread I guess I will. We have a few new players that hopefully can contribute big time. This year's incoming class is led by 4 star recruit Tray Jackson, a 6' 8" PF, that was ranked as the number 84 recruit in the nation. Included in the class are two 3 star recruits Mario McKinney and Kobe Brown.

Coming off a disappointing 2018-2019 season in which they went 15-17, but lost the best player on the team before the season started, hopefully they can get back to the NCAA tourney again and maybe win a couple games. This is a big year for Martin and hopefully this is the year everything comes together.

[patteeu]

Do we have an adequate supply of slow, big men to get us through all the times Tilmon fouls out this season?

[KurtCobain]

I have high hopes for Jackson, and I am very pumped up for this season. Of course, I always am and am usually disappointed. Fuck it, though, let's go tigers!

[dlphg9]

Do we have an adequate supply of slow, big men to get us through all the times Tilmon fouls out this season?

Some 7 ft dude named Axel.

[dlphg9]

I have high hopes for Jackson, and I am very pumped up for this season. Of course, I always am and am usually disappointed. **** it, though, let's go tigers!

College basketball is that one sport that will light my emotions on fire unlike any other sport can do

[KurtCobain]

I just hope they beat Incarnate Word.

[dlphg9]

I just hope they beat Incarnate Word.

If they don't ill probably tap out on the season lol

[KurtCobain]

For the most part, it seems to be going on as it should.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

In today's episode of Mizzou Fans Can't Have Nice Things, Jaydin Eierman is transferring to another school.

[bowener]

I live a mile from the stadiums and have had zero desire to see any games. The men's athletics are stuck in a cycle of subpar mediocrity from which they can't or don't want to escape.

[dlphg9]

In today's episode of Mizzou Fans Can't Have Nice Things, Jaydin Eierman is transferring to another school.

I had to look him up. Hes a wrestler, so that's why I was wondering who the fuck he was.

[DJ's left nut]

This is gonna be another fun team. I know everyone was down on last year's squad because they didn't have a winning record but that team was a good time to go out and watch grow.

My daughter turned to me during the game and asked "Wasn't Jeremiah on the team 2 years ago with Michael?" When I told her he was she looked out and asked "was anyone else?"

Even the 5 year old - who was 3 at the time - knew something was weird about that fact. Tilmon (and Reed Nikko) are the only guys on this team that were on it 2 seasons ago. That's damn near a clean-sheet redesign.

And these guys are all the kinds of players who should have 3 and 4 year careers here. They're the kinds of guys that turn into Clarence Gilberts and Melvin Bookers. That's how you really start to form bonds with teams and how a team like Mizzou will always have to be built. Kassius Robertson kicking ass for a year was a blast and the idea of MPJ was amazing. But Mizzou's gonna make it's bones by building a pipeline of kids that build off each other.

As for the squad - Dru Smith is gonna be gooooood. Kobe Brown is a lot more interesting than I thought and with his build, he will create some really interesting matchups in a sort of point-forward role at times. Guy's built like a power forward but with 3 pt range.

Watson looks significantly more 'conference ready' - he's not the stringy slasher that he was last year. He's put some muscle on and should be willing/able to get to the hoop and get his shot while providing solid defense.

Pinson just keeps looking better. My hope is that he Phil Pressey without the hero complex; his court vision is outstanding. Picket has some real JT Tiller potential if he'll commit to that style of game.

And the team is deeper than it's been in a decade or more. They go 9-10 deep with guys who are SEC caliber players (or will be by the end of the season, IMO). Even a guy like Mitchell Smith can provide you some quality minutes and I'd put him at/near 10 with Parker Braun and Reed Nikko at 11-12.

I'm still not sure what I see with Mark Smith but in the end he may be the only potential isolation player on the team and you need one of those guys to get you a bucket to stop a run when jumpers aren't falling. He'll be important at some point. McKinney brings a ton of energy and Jackson...well he looks a bit like Watson looked last year. There's some definite growth that needs to happen there but seeing him in the rotation this early can only mean good things. Cuonzo doesn't give guys run based on their recruiting rankings so he's doing something at practice to earn those minutes.

Tilmon is Tilmon - just no way to really grade him based on that squad. We know what he is and think we know what he can be. But until he plays quality competition there's no way to know how he's going to adapt the things he's been taught for 2 years. I still think he'll have foul trouble but my hope is for some small improvement there. The offense looks awfully good when it's running through him.

This will probably be a borderline tournament team that wins 18-19 games when all is said and done. But they'll be fun to watch grow together and build momentum towards next season.

[dlphg9]

Is Northern Kentucky any good? I know theyre a mid major, but they won their regular season conf title and the conference tournament and (obviously) made the NCAA tourney. Tilmon is shooting high percentage shots and hasn't fouled out yet. 2 games in a row has to be some kind of record for him.

[Titty Meat]

This is gonna be another fun team. I know everyone was down on last year's squad because they didn't have a winning record but that team was a good time to go out and watch grow.

My daughter turned to me during the game and asked "Wasn't Jeremiah on the team 2 years ago with Michael?" When I told her he was she looked out and asked "was anyone else?"

Even the 5 year old - who was 3 at the time - knew something was weird about that fact. Tilmon (and Reed Nikko) are the only guys on this team that were on it 2 seasons ago. That's damn near a clean-sheet redesign.

And these guys are all the kinds of players who should have 3 and 4 year careers here. They're the kinds of guys that turn into Clarence Gilberts and Melvin Bookers. That's how you really start to form bonds with teams and how a team like Mizzou will always have to be built. Kassius Robertson kicking ass for a year was a blast and the idea of MPJ was amazing. But Mizzou's gonna make it's bones by building a pipeline of kids that build off each other.

As for the squad - Dru Smith is gonna be gooooood. Kobe Brown is a lot more interesting than I thought and with his build, he will create some really interesting matchups in a sort of point-forward role at times. Guy's built like a power forward but with 3 pt range.

Watson looks significantly more 'conference ready' - he's not the stringy slasher that he was last year. He's put some muscle on and should be willing/able to get to the hoop and get his shot while providing solid defense.

Pinson just keeps looking better. My hope is that he Phil Pressey without the hero complex; his court vision is outstanding. Picket has some real JT Tiller potential if he'll commit to that style of game.

And the team is deeper than it's been in a decade or more. They go 9-10 deep with guys who are SEC caliber players (or will be by the end of the season, IMO). Even a guy like Mitchell Smith can provide you some quality minutes and I'd put him at/near 10 with Parker Braun and Reed Nikko at 11-12.

I'm still not sure what I see with Mark Smith but in the end he may be the only potential isolation player on the team and you need one of those guys to get you a bucket to stop a run when jumpers aren't falling. He'll be important at some point. McKinney brings a ton of energy and Jackson...well he looks a bit like Watson looked last year. There's some definite growth that needs to happen there but seeing him in the rotation this early can only mean good things. Cuonzo doesn't give guys run based on their recruiting rankings so he's doing something at practice to earn those minutes.

Tilmon is Tilmon - just no way to really grade him based on that squad. We know what he is and think we know what he can be. But until he plays quality competition there's no way to know how he's going to adapt the things he's been taught for 2 years. I still think he'll have foul trouble but my hope is for some small improvement there. The offense looks awfully good when it's running through him.

This will probably be a borderline tournament team that wins 18-19 games when all is said and done. But they'll be fun to watch grow together and build momentum towards next season.

Thata nothing! We flipped a whole roster in 30 days and lost our first game to UC Riverside by 20!

Looking at Martin's coaching record though it looks like 1 or 2 good seasons followed by meh is a trend. Cant really knock him for last year Jontays injury ****ed you. He atleast has the program respectable after the Anderson disaster.

[dlphg9]

Ok all you dudes in the shitty MU football thread quit worrying about that trashtastic team and come discuss a team with a decent shot at a successful season.

[Pepe Silvia]

I live a mile from the stadiums and have had zero desire to see any games. The men's athletics are stuck in a cycle of subpar mediocrity from which they can't or don't want to escape.

I'm going to go with this one.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Tillmon hasn't improved even a tiny bit in 3 years. Not sure who that's a bigger indictment on, him or Cuonzo. Watching him commit stupid fouls year after year is maddening.

[Mizzou_8541]

Tillmon hasn't improved even a tiny bit in 3 years. Not sure who that's a bigger indictment on, him or Cuonzo. Watching him commit stupid fouls year after year is maddening.

I wonder if Tillmon knows Chase Daniels.

[KurtCobain]

They might actually pull this thing off.

[petegz28]

Refs getting awfully cozy with Xavier there....

last 2 fouls on MU were BS

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Dru Smith can ball. Inside game, good range, solid defense.

[petegz28]

Win or lose, this is a win for this MU team. I never expected them to play this kind of game. Especially after the first half.

[Mizzou_8541]

Pinson!

[petegz28]

WTF was that call, Ref?

[petegz28]

Pinson should have had an and 1 on that...

[petegz28]

Give it to D. Smith ..let him put it on the floor

[WhawhaWhat]

Down goes Kentucky... to Evansville.

[petegz28]

Losing on the boards now...was a much better game that I expected but Xavier winning out in OT

[petegz28]

Fuck these Refs...what a shit call

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Tillmon is such a blockhead :facepalm:

[petegz28]

That is what you call a good loss. You take a ranked team into OT on the road, can't complain. Just hope it carries over.

[KurtCobain]

Well fuck me.

[dlphg9]

Put up a good fight against a good team on the road. Shit sucks that they lost.

[DJ's left nut]

They have GOT to get over these early game yips. Cold shooting I could live with but the terrible ball-control and haphazard defense in the first 5 minutes of games is getting awfully old.

They buried themselves early and anytime they had a chance to get to 5-7 down, Butler would bury a 3 to keep the margin at/near double digits until Mizzou finally ran out of gas down the stretch.

Against a mediocre team you can start out slow and fight your way back. But against quality opponents - potential tournament teams - you may even be a little better than they are but you're not so much better that you can spot them double digits and make up for it.

You re-set the score after 15-3 and that would've been a neck and neck slugfest for the remainder of the game. But that's not how it works and it's the same damn thing they did against Xavier.

They have got to come out ready to play. They're a solid squad but not good enough to dig out of these god-awful pits they're putting themselves in. Especially when they're a result of terrible turnovers.

[dlphg9]

They have GOT to get over these early game yips. Cold shooting I could live with but the terrible ball-control and haphazard defense in the first 5 minutes of games is getting awfully old.

They buried themselves early and anytime they had a chance to get to 5-7 down, Butler would bury a 3 to keep the margin at/near double digits until Mizzou finally ran out of gas down the stretch.

Against a mediocre team you can start out slow and fight your way back. But against quality opponents - potential tournament teams - you may even be a little better than they are but you're not so much better that you can spot them double digits and make up for it.

You re-set the score after 15-3 and that would've been a neck and neck slugfest for the remainder of the game. But that's not how it works and it's the same damn thing they did against Xavier.

They have got to come out ready to play. They're a solid squad but not good enough to dig out of these god-awful pits they're putting themselves in. Especially when they're a result of terrible turnovers.

How the hell do you have 2 starters that finish with goose eggs? Tilmon and Pickett combined for 28 minutes 0 points, 0 assists, and 3 rebounds, you're not gonna win too many games when 2 of your best players put up that bad of a performance. On top of that Mark Smith was only able to score 4 points in 33 minutes. Mark Smith averages the 2nd most points on the team at 12 ppg and Tilmon is 3rd at 10 ppg.

It seems like it was just a game that started put bad for a few guys and they never seemed to recover. So hopefully that's something they can get fixed and if they can this team is good enough to be a top 25 team and is pretty young. Im hoping that as the season goes along we get more production from the younger guys. Right now our top 3 scorers are Jr's, but then we have
4. Pinson (SO) 9.3 ppg
5. Brown (FR) 6.8 ppg
6. Pickett (SO) 4.7 ppg
7. Jackson (FR) 4.0 ppg
9. Watson (SO) 2.5 ppg

Hopefully these guys start taking more minutes from Nikko and Mitchell Smith. Nikko is only getting around 6 minutes a game, but Smith is getting 13 minutes a game. I'd like to see them both start getting around 5 minutes a game, because they suck. If they both were getting 5 minutes a game then that would open up 9-10 minutes for Jackson and Brown to split. It would also be a much more athletic lineup, but it would give us the best chance to win.

[Sully]

What has Tilmon's mind got to be like right now? Dude fouls a lot, sure. But he gets called for shit I never see anyone else on the court called for. He's got to just go out there wondering what he has to do.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[duncan_idaho]

How the hell do you have 2 starters that finish with goose eggs? Tilmon and Pickett combined for 28 minutes 0 points, 0 assists, and 3 rebounds, you're not gonna win too many games when 2 of your best players put up that bad of a performance. On top of that Mark Smith was only able to score 4 points in 33 minutes. Mark Smith averages the 2nd most points on the team at 12 ppg and Tilmon is 3rd at 10 ppg.



It seems like it was just a game that started put bad for a few guys and they never seemed to recover. So hopefully that's something they can get fixed and if they can this team is good enough to be a top 25 team and is pretty young. Im hoping that as the season goes along we get more production from the younger guys. Right now our top 3 scorers are Jr's, but then we have

4. Pinson (SO) 9.3 ppg

5. Brown (FR) 6.8 ppg

6. Pickett (SO) 4.7 ppg

7. Jackson (FR) 4.0 ppg

9. Watson (SO) 2.5 ppg



Hopefully these guys start taking more minutes from Nikko and Mitchell Smith. Nikko is only getting around 6 minutes a game, but Smith is getting 13 minutes a game. I'd like to see them both start getting around 5 minutes a game, because they suck. If they both were getting 5 minutes a game then that would open up 9-10 minutes for Jackson and Brown to split. It would also be a much more athletic lineup, but it would give us the best chance to win.


I agree on cutting Mitchell Smith’s minutes. More for Brown and Jackson.

I disagree this is a team with top 25 talent. They don’t have anyone who can really break guys down off the dribble and create for himself and others. They don’t have a true low post scoring threat. They don’t push the pace and get transition buckets or secondary transition baskets.

They’re good defensively (though they couldn’t keep any of Butler’s guards in front of them last night), but the offense is so badly designed that it isn’t the strength it should be.

[DJ's left nut]

I agree on cutting Mitchell Smith’s minutes. More for Brown and Jackson.

I disagree this is a team with top 25 talent. They don’t have anyone who can really break guys down off the dribble and create for himself and others. They don’t have a true low post scoring threat. They don’t push the pace and get transition buckets or secondary transition baskets.

They’re good defensively (though they couldn’t keep any of Butler’s guards in front of them last night), but the offense is so badly designed that it isn’t the strength it should be.

How many teams have guys that can do BOTH of those things, though? A player that can break guys down, create for himself AND teammates is a premier player.

Mark Smith is a pretty good isolation player that had a bad day. Dru Smith is a good distributor with solid handles but not quite the first step quickness to blow by guys (outstanding body control though; definitely a guy who can be a plus finisher).

And then there's the most maddening player on the team - Xavier Pinson. Pinson can absolutely flash both of those things. He has a PGs eye and a SGs conscious. And the body of a 12 year old but that's better than the 9 year old he looked like last year.

In-season development will be so critical to this squad because none of those 3 guys have a ton of Power 5 basketball experience. That's worth noting when all 3 of them occasionally demonstrate the attributes you're looking for.

But man, I didn't realize Tilmon was that bad yesterday. I knew he was largely absent but not THAT absent. That's real bad and something he can't allow to happen. Not if Mizzou hopes to make the tournament.

I think it's fair to say that Mizzou doesn't have slam-dunk top 25 ability right now, but they have that potential and more. Especially if Kobe Brown can continue to develop something of a point-forward's game and get his range figured out.

And I get a REAL bad feeling we're gonna see "Torrence Watson has entered the transfer portal" by Christmas. This is just the kind of thing you see happening to kids that don't quite buy in. They press, they make stupid mistakes, their minutes dwindle, they press worse....they leave. And if he transfers out now he'd be post-season eligible for his new squad next year.

I love the potential there but it just looks like a looooooong road to him re-earning Cuonzo's trust and I'm just not sure he's gonna be up for that.

[OKchiefs]

How many teams have guys that can do BOTH of those things, though? A player that can break guys down, create for himself AND teammates is a premier player.

Mark Smith is a pretty good isolation player that had a bad day. Dru Smith is a good distributor with solid handles but not quite the first step quickness to blow by guys (outstanding body control though; definitely a guy who can be a plus finisher).

And then there's the most maddening player on the team - Xavier Pinson. Pinson can absolutely flash both of those things. He has a PGs eye and a SGs conscious. And the body of a 12 year old but that's better than the 9 year old he looked like last year.

In-season development will be so critical to this squad because none of those 3 guys have a ton of Power 5 basketball experience. That's worth noting when all 3 of them occasionally demonstrate the attributes you're looking for.

But man, I didn't realize Tilmon was that bad yesterday. I knew he was largely absent but not THAT absent. That's real bad and something he can't allow to happen. Not if Mizzou hopes to make the tournament.

I think it's fair to say that Mizzou doesn't have slam-dunk top 25 ability right now, but they have that potential and more. Especially if Kobe Brown can continue to develop something of a point-forward's game and get his range figured out.

And I get a REAL bad feeling we're gonna see "Torrence Watson has entered the transfer portal" by Christmas. This is just the kind of thing you see happening to kids that don't quite buy in. They press, they make stupid mistakes, their minutes dwindle, they press worse....they leave. And if he transfers out now he'd be post-season eligible for his new squad next year.

I love the potential there but it just looks like a looooooong road to him re-earning Cuonzo's trust and I'm just not sure he's gonna be up for that.

Both Watson and Pickett have seemingly regressed since last year. Not seeing much development lately under CM.

[OKchiefs]

Yep, this team is pathetic. Mizzou Athletics are an embarrassment to the state.

[DJ's left nut]

Yep, this team is pathetic. Mizzou Athletics are an embarrassment to the state.

Fist your mother, mopey cunt.

[OKchiefs]

Fist your mother, mopey ****.

Right after I get done fisting your father

[dlphg9]

Yep, this team is pathetic. Mizzou Athletics are an embarrassment to the state.

You're such a pussy. You bitch and moan in every thread you post in. You and Penbrook need a suicide pact.

[Titty Meat]

Fist your mother, mopey ****.

People on here seem to have no concept that rebuilding program takes 3-5 years. I always get shit for it in the college football thread same can apply to your basketball team. Martin did a very good job his first year, other theb tonight they've been pretty competitive. That's all you can really ask for this year.

[OKchiefs]

You're such a pussy. You bitch and moan in every thread you post in. You and Penbrook need a suicide pact.

Pot, meet kettle

[OKchiefs]

People on here seem to have no concept that rebuilding program takes 3-5 years. I always get shit for it in the college football thread same can apply to your basketball team. Martin did a very good job his first year, other theb tonight they've been pretty competitive. That's all you can really ask for this year.

Well this is year 3 and they're showing zero growth, both individually and as a team. Oh, and the recruiting is the worst in the SEC.

[Titty Meat]

Well this is year 3 and they're showing zero growth, both individually and as a team. Oh, and the recruiting is the worst in the SEC.

They've been pretty competitive hard to judge a team building playing night 2 early in the season. Tired legs and all.

[duncan_idaho]

People on here seem to have no concept that rebuilding program takes 3-5 years. I always get shit for it in the college football thread same can apply to your basketball team. Martin did a very good job his first year, other theb tonight they've been pretty competitive. That's all you can really ask for this year.

Not when you’re paying a guy top 20 salary, which they are. This isn’t football. They shouldn’t be struggling to be a bubble team. And the recruiting has careened downhill since year 1.

[Titty Meat]

Not when you’re paying a guy top 20 salary, which they are. This isn’t football. They shouldn’t be struggling to be a bubble team. And the recruiting has careened downhill since year 1.

Its early but they've been competitive. You look for positives like that and go into year 4 with high expectations. If the record doesnt reflect that then you should start to question.

It's not viable to can him this year and expect to find a competent coach that will come to your program and get you where you need to go.

[duncan_idaho]

Its early but they've been competitive. You look for positives like that and go into year 4 with high expectations. If the record doesnt reflect that then you should start to question.



It's not viable to can him this year and expect to find a competent coach that will come to your program and get you where you need to go.


They can’t fire him until after next season with the way his contract is structured. I wouldn’t advocate for canning him now.

He’s just incredibly disappointing, and his style/brand of basketball is incredibly boring to watch, and has never maximized the talent he had.

But that’s par for the course with him. He wasted a lot of talent at Tennessee and Cal, too.

[Titty Meat]

They can’t fire him until after next season with the way his contract is structured. I wouldn’t advocate for canning him now.

He’s just incredibly disappointing, and his style/brand of basketball is incredibly boring to watch, and has never maximized the talent he had.

But that’s par for the course with him. He wasted a lot of talent at Tennessee and Cal, too.

I was going to say his performance thus far has been pretty consistent with his overall coaching career. A tournament appearance here and there sprinkled in with some NITs. Certainly you guys knew what you were signing up for when you hired him no?

[OKchiefs]

They've been pretty competitive hard to judge a team building playing night 2 early in the season. Tired legs and all.

Again, zero growth. It's a broken record every game. They start out sloppy and turn the ball over early resulting in being down big to open the game. They eventually clamp down on defense and claw back in to the game but against halfway decent teams it simply isn't enough with CMs offense and their crappy shooting. The rest of the non-con schedule isn't exactly a cakewalk and they have a brutal start to SEC play. They're going to have to scratch and claw just to get to 17-18 wins which probably isn't enough for the tournament. Good luck trying to get recruits in 2021 when you yet again show no results during the season. Why would any serious recruits even want to come and play for this awful offensive system? It's like trying to get a wide receiver to choose between playing with Mahomes and Derek Carr.

[Titty Meat]

Again, zero growth. It's a broken record every game. They start out sloppy and turn the ball over early resulting in being down big to open the game. They eventually clamp down on defense and claw back in to the game but against halfway decent teams it simply isn't enough with CMs offense and their crappy shooting. The rest of the non-con schedule isn't exactly a cakewalk and they have a brutal start to SEC play. They're going to have to scratch and claw just to get to 17-18 wins which probably isn't enough for the tournament. Good luck trying to get recruits in 2021 when you yet again show no results during the season. Why would any serious recruits even want to come and play for this awful offensive system? It's like trying to get a wide receiver to choose between playing with Mahomes and Derek Carr.

Its November man

[OKchiefs]

Its November man

Well, it just seems like a continuation of the past 2 years. I can't really think of any players other than Geist who have shown growth. Tilmon is the same player he was 3 years ago. Watson and Pickett are somehow worse than they were as Freshmen. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have zero faith in Cuonzo Martin. Like I said, the athletic department is an embarrassment. Football and basketball are collectively a complete joke.

[duncan_idaho]

I was going to say his performance thus far has been pretty consistent with his overall coaching career. A tournament appearance here and there sprinkled in with some NITs. Certainly you guys knew what you were signing up for when you hired him no?


They didn’t pay him top 20 coaches salary to be 18-22 wins with a ceiling on the bubble.

His advocates were certain his recruiting would improve with proximity to his hometown of St. Louis, and that he would evolve his offense to something akin to Iowa State under Hoiberg.

He has done neither.

[Titty Meat]

They didn’t pay him top 20 coaches salary to be 18-22 wins with a ceiling on the bubble.

His advocates were certain his recruiting would improve with proximity to his hometown of St. Louis, and that he would evolve his offense to something akin to Iowa State under Hoiberg.

He has done neither.

Well if you're expecting a guy to be better than he has been after several years in coaching I can tell ya how that ends.

Regarding Hoiberg hes done wonders here offensively so far despite a pathetic team with true freshmen as bigs who cant rebound or play defense. Gonna be damn good team in a few years.

[ChiefsCountry]

They didn’t pay him top 20 coaches salary to be 18-22 wins with a ceiling on the bubble.

His advocates were certain his recruiting would improve with proximity to his hometown of St. Louis, and that he would evolve his offense to something akin to Iowa State under Hoiberg.

He has done neither.

Bullshit on the St. Louis recruiting - Tilmon, Watson, Smith, McKinney, Pickett. You lost out on two studs to the bluest of the blue bloods and a kid who grew up idolizing Orlando Pace so he chose Ohio State.

[Titty Meat]

Bullshit on the St. Louis recruiting - Tilmon, Watson, Smith, McKinney, Pickett. You lost out on two studs to the bluest of the blue bloods and a kid who grew up idolizing Orlando Pace so he chose Ohio State.

That's kinda... odd

[Rams Fan]

Not when you’re paying a guy top 20 salary, which they are. This isn’t football. They shouldn’t be struggling to be a bubble team. And the recruiting has careened downhill since year 1.

Cuonzo’s recruiting style doesn’t rely on having a roster filled with multiple one and dones.

Give him time. He’s a good recruiter and he is what he is at this point, a clean, above average coach who will have a consistent floor(tournament with NITs) and a relatively low ceiling. There’s nothing wrong with that but to act as if he’s anything else at this point is misjudging what his track record is as well as what the program aspires to do. If Mizzou wanted to change those expectations, they should have hired a different coach or have Cuonzo significantly change his recruiting style.

And basketball is like football in that it takes time, unless you recruit one and dones to fill the majority of your roster.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Bullshit on the St. Louis recruiting - Tilmon, Watson, Smith, McKinney, Pickett. You lost out on two studs to the bluest of the blue bloods and a kid who grew up idolizing Orlando Pace so he chose Ohio State.

The state had 5 Top 150 kids this year, all in the greater St. Louis area, and Mizzou got none of them. Fletcher went to Kentucky, Love to UNC, but the other three went to K-State and Creighton.

It's a fair criticism.

[HonestChieffan]

Hard to get top talent to go to schools that are not really known as a Basketball School.

[duncan_idaho]

Bullshit on the St. Louis recruiting - Tilmon, Watson, Smith, McKinney, Pickett. You lost out on two studs to the bluest of the blue bloods and a kid who grew up idolizing Orlando Pace so he chose Ohio State.


Tilmon was a great flip. Smith was a good transfer to receive (though he lost him out of HS). Watson and McKinney are solid recruits and he should have a few guys like that in each class.

Pickett is a JAG.

Cuonzo’s recruiting style doesn’t rely on having a roster filled with multiple one and dones.

Give him time. He’s a good recruiter and he is what he is at this point, a clean, above average coach who will have a consistent floor(tournament with NITs) and a relatively low ceiling. There’s nothing wrong with that but to act as if he’s anything else at this point is misjudging what his track record is as well as what the program aspires to do. If Mizzou wanted to change those expectations, they should have hired a different coach or have Cuonzo significantly change his recruiting style.

And basketball is like football in that it takes time, unless you recruit one and dones to fill the majority of your roster.


I was never a fan of the hire when the rumors first started circulating, because of his history and because he was a solid-not-great recruiter at Tennessee and Cal.

Those in his corner and pushing for him SWORE left and right that he would elevate his recruiting on a year-to-year basis and lock down St. Louis (not necessarily the top 20 guys, but the guys outside it like EJ Liddell and Courtney Ramey).

They didn’t hire him and pay him a top 20 coaches salary to be the same coach he had been. The idea was he would elevate his recruiting and coaching and be worth the top 20 salary.

I reject whole heartedly the idea it takes
4-5 years to rebuild in college basketball. It doesn’t require one and dones, either. Transfers, and juniors and sophomores in your program are enough for a true top 20 coach to get highs headed north.

I agree Mizzou should have hired a different coach.

Martin isn’t awful - we just saw that - but he isn’t anything special, either. I wouldn’t describe him as an above-average recruiter at this point. Just average. Above average recruiters don’t waste scholarships on people like Jordan Wilmore (the current lone member of next year’s recruiting class) and Axel Okongo (a JUcO big who was bad at JUCO but who they fought for getting 2 years). They’re going to have both of those guys on the roster next year, and it’s an absolute waste.

Does he have time to turn it around? Sure. But it pretty much all rests on 1) actually landing Josh Christopher; 2) landing a quality post as a grad transfer or immediately eligible player.

Otherwise, next year’s team will be exactly the same (minus Tilmon, who’s going to go somewhere and make money playing hoops once this year is over) as this year’s.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Tilmon was a great flip. Smith was a good transfer to receive (though he lost him out of HS). Watson and McKinney are solid recruits and he should have a few guys like that in each class.

Pickett is a JAG.




I was never a fan of the hire when the rumors first started circulating, because of his history and because he was a solid-not-great recruiter at Tennessee and Cal.

Those in his corner and pushing for him SWORE left and right that he would elevate his recruiting on a year-to-year basis and lock down St. Louis (not necessarily the top 20 guys, but the guys outside it like EJ Liddell and Courtney Ramey).

They didn’t hire him and pay him a top 20 coaches salary to be the same coach he had been. The idea was he would elevate his recruiting and coaching and be worth the top 20 salary.

I reject whole heartedly the idea it takes
4-5 years to rebuild in college basketball. It doesn’t require one and dones, either. Transfers, and juniors and sophomores in your program are enough for a true top 20 coach to get highs headed north.

I agree Mizzou should have hired a different coach.

Martin isn’t awful - we just saw that - but he isn’t anything special, either. I wouldn’t describe him as an above-average recruiter at this point. Just average. Above average recruiters don’t waste scholarships on people like Jordan Wilmore (the current lone member of next year’s recruiting class) and Axel Okongo (a JUcO big who was bad at JUCO but who they fought for getting 2 years). They’re going to have both of those guys on the roster next year, and it’s an absolute waste.

Does he have time to turn it around? Sure. But it pretty much all rests on 1) actually landing Josh Christopher; 2) landing a quality post as a grad transfer or immediately eligible player.

Otherwise, next year’s team will be exactly the same (minus Tilmon, who’s going to go somewhere and make money playing hoops once this year is over) as this year’s.

Regarding Tilmon:

When you say somewhere, I assume you mean overseas? Because guys like Tilmon don't have much of a place in the modern NBA.

[duncan_idaho]

Regarding Tilmon:

When you say somewhere, I assume you mean overseas? Because guys like Tilmon don't have much of a place in the modern NBA.


Yes. He has a three-year old and is ready to go make some money.

Players like Tilmon barely have a place in college basketball. He’s a real liability defensively against the pick and roll with a good pop shooter.

And yet Cuonzo keeps recruiting them. Axel Okongo and Jordan Wilmore are bigger, less agile, less athletic, and less skilled than Tilmon.

[duncan_idaho]

Hard to get top talent to go to schools that are not really known as a Basketball School.


Erroneous.

[ChiefsCountry]

The state had 5 Top 150 kids this year, all in the greater St. Louis area, and Mizzou got none of them. Fletcher went to Kentucky, Love to UNC, but the other three went to K-State and Creighton.

It's a fair criticism.

Kasubke is a MVC top line recruit and took the best offer to K-State. Bradford is the biggest miss. Kalkbrenner is hard to say. Most of his top choices were top academic schools ie Stanford, Georgia Tech, Purdue before choosing Creighton.

Tilmon was a great flip. Smith was a good transfer to receive (though he lost him out of HS). Watson and McKinney are solid recruits and he should have a few guys like that in each class.


Smith chose Illinois out of high school because of Harris coming at the Porter's request I'm pretty certain.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Kasubke is a MVC top line recruit and took the best offer to K-State. Bradford is the biggest miss. Kalkbrenner is hard to say. Most of his top choices were top academic schools ie Stanford, Georgia Tech, Purdue before choosing Creighton.



Smith chose Illinois out of high school because of Harris coming at the Porter's request I'm pretty certain.

It would appear that Flake Harris left NC State last month, which means he will be on his third college team after playing for three high school teams. Jesus.

[TrebMaxx]

Tilmon seems to be a turnover machine (16 so far this year) along with his stupid fouls. Sometimes he flashes but I also think sometimes the team plays better when he is not in.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Holy fucking shit. This team is terrible.

[Jerm]

I know Martin's contract is protected (which is idiotic)...luckily for him though or Sterk could be conducting 2 searches.

[WhawhaWhat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The lowest-ranked KenPom teams to beat Missouri at Mizzou Arena (ratings at the time of the game)<br>19-20: Charleston Southern, No. 313<br>14-15: UMKC, 286<br>16-17: Eastern Illinois, 247<br>16-17: Lipscomb, 235<br>05-06: Sam Houston State, 182</p>&mdash; Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/1202094650737213447?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[dlphg9]

Such a bad bad loss. Dear God.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, that's unbelievably bad.

Now Charleston Southern (a miserable team from deep) got weirdly hot from behind the line in that game, but still - 45 points in a half to that team is just completely unacceptable.

I don't really know what the hell to do about the turnovers at this point. For 2 years I could make excuses when the team had basically one ballhandler and that was Jordan Geist, who wasn't particularly good at it. Pinson was a freshman so that's youth at work.

But now you have Smith, Smith and Pinson with a year under his belt. Kobe Brown can even handle the ball a bit. Pickett tends to be a smart player who will make the right pass so long as it's a basic one.

At this point it just seems like it has to be a coaching issue; something that isn't being prioritized.

The turnovers being a constant and the seemingly routine poor starts against quality opponents are just things you almost HAVE to pin on Martin at this point.

[duncan_idaho]

Yeah, that's unbelievably bad.

Now Charleston Southern (a miserable team from deep) got weirdly hot from behind the line in that game, but still - 45 points in a half to that team is just completely unacceptable.

I don't really know what the hell to do about the turnovers at this point. For 2 years I could make excuses when the team had basically one ballhandler and that was Jordan Geist, who wasn't particularly good at it. Pinson was a freshman so that's youth at work.

But now you have Smith, Smith and Pinson with a year under his belt. Kobe Brown can even handle the ball a bit. Pickett tends to be a smart player who will make the right pass so long as it's a basic one.

At this point it just seems like it has to be a coaching issue; something that isn't being prioritized.

The turnovers being a constant and the seemingly routine poor starts against quality opponents are just things you almost HAVE to pin on Martin at this point.


Well, they spend practically no time at practice on offense, apparently. So that’s probably the biggest issue.

That, and Martin isn’t a good game coach.

I retract my expectation of this team being on the bubble (but not making it in) in March. Not happening.

[DJ's left nut]

Well, they spend practically no time at practice on offense, apparently. So that’s probably the biggest issue.

That, and Martin isn’t a good game coach.

I retract my expectation of this team being on the bubble (but not making it in) in March. Not happening.

So what'd they spend time on in practice this week?

How the !@#$ do you give up a 45 point half to Charleston Southern?!?!

{facepalm}

[gblowfish]

They lost to frickin' Map Direction State University? I thought we might actually have decent basketball this year, but looks like another year lost in the wasteland. Cuonzo = Quinn?

[duncan_idaho]

So what'd they spend time on in practice this week?



How the !@#$ do you give up a 45 point half to Charleston Southern?!?!



{facepalm}


A great question. I don’t know what he does.

Everything that’s happening right now is why I was firmly in the NO camp on Martin before they hired him.

He’s not a great recruiter - rep is overblown

He doesn’t develop talent

He isn’t a great game coach (or even a good one, really)

And he doesn’t maximize his talent. His Tennessee and Cal teams were LOADED with talent and he did nothing with it. That Stokes-McRae-Richardson-Maymon team at Tennessee that went to the Sweet 16 was as talented as any Mizzou squad I can think of, save the 08-09 team. And at Cal, he had a trio of pro guards, plus two lottery picks, plus another pro forward in Stephen Domingo, and couldn’t get past the first round.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Hate to admit it because I wanted Cuonzo to succeed.

He's not going to. He's terrible.

[DJ's left nut]

A great question. I don’t know what he does.

Everything that’s happening right now is why I was firmly in the NO camp on Martin before they hired him.

He’s not a great recruiter - rep is overblown

He doesn’t develop talent

He isn’t a great game coach (or even a good one, really)

And he doesn’t maximize his talent. His Tennessee and Cal teams were LOADED with talent and he did nothing with it. That Stokes-McRae-Richardson-Maymon team at Tennessee that went to the Sweet 16 was as talented as any Mizzou squad I can think of, save the 08-09 team. And at Cal, he had a trio of pro guards, plus two lottery picks, plus another pro forward in Stephen Domingo, and couldn’t get past the first round.

It was always a legitimate concern.

The hope was that he's a generally smart basketball guy who could continue to develop, especially if given a staff that has some offensive specialists on it.

And to be fair, his team the first year really did look far different than his previous squads had. It looked to really be improving in key areas with spacing and shooting. And this years team looks to be TRYING in those areas.

They're just failing. I think he has adapted a bit from a strictly tactical standpoint. But you may be right - he may really struggle at developing talent. And if so, that's a death knell at Mizzou, where the only path forward is to find good 3 and 4 star prospects who stay for 3-4 years and improve into strong veteran units that maximize their potential. This isn't a program that's going to win on the strength of top 20 recruiting classes and 1 and done guys.

[Pepe Silvia]

He's been beyond awful.

[Sully]

They lost to frickin' Map Direction State University? I thought we might actually have decent basketball this year, but looks like another year lost in the wasteland. Cuonzo = Quinn?I would take Quin back in a second.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Perineum Ripper]

Well glad I decided to stay home and punch myself in the dick all night, that was much more enjoyable then going to the game like I had planned

[DJ's left nut]

He's been beyond awful.

Kim Anderson was beyond awful, fellas.

Cuonzo isn't that. He's not APPROACHING that.

There's talent here. And a plan you can see. And an offensive system in place.

They just keep undermining themselves with the same error and it's ALWAYS !@#$ing ball control. Every single year this team has just been garbage with ball control. And they're similar to most middle-tier college teams in that they run hot and cold with their outside shooting.

If you aren't turning the ball over every 3rd possession you can muddle through your cold streaks and still pull out wins. But when you just keep turning the damn ball over, it's like being short-stacked in poker. You simply can't ride out a cold deck.

Cuonzo's looking like a JAG. He's looking a lot like Barry Odom, to be honest. No, Cuonzo isn't awful. Odom wasn't awful. Both guys have things they do very well. But they also have weaknesses that often undermine those strengths and end up stuck in mediocrity.

[DJ's left nut]

Well glad I decided to stay home and punch myself in the dick all night, that was much more enjoyable then going to the game like I had planned

My daughter called an audible as we were getting in the truck to head to the arena. She decided she wanted to go play with her friend down at a church/moms group function so I took here there instead and met the guy that was going to the game with us at CJ's for some wings.

Damn glad I didn't go. I would not have been pleasant to be around. It reminds me of the Norfolk St. game - I had free tickets to it and turned them down. My reasoning was that I'd either watch them win a game that I had no expectation they'd lose and thus probably be bored, or I'd watch them lose a game that would send me to a whole new level of pissed off. So it was really lose/lose in that instance.

Instead I never watched a second of the game and as such, that loss has really no impact on me. I know guys who speak of that game with the same rage I view the Indy road playoff loss or the Tyus Edney game and it simply doesn't move the needle with me at all.

They don't suck as much when you don't witness them.

[ChiefsCountry]

Charleston Southern 45% from 3
Mizzou 15% from 3

That's the difference in the game right there. Charleston Southern shot out of their mind and pulled the upset. Mizzou was 10% under from their average at 3.

Mizzou has been pretty good out of conference under Zo. First loss in Zo's era to a non-Power school.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

My daughter called an audible as we were getting in the truck to head to the arena. She decided she wanted to go play with her friend down at a church/moms group function so I took here there instead and met the guy that was going to the game with us at CJ's for some wings.

Damn glad I didn't go. I would not have been pleasant to be around. It reminds me of the Norfolk St. game - I had free tickets to it and turned them down. My reasoning was that I'd either watch them win a game that I had no expectation they'd lose and thus probably be bored, or I'd watch them lose a game that would send me to a whole new level of pissed off. So it was really lose/lose in that instance.

Instead I never watched a second of the game and as such, that loss has really no impact on me. I know guys who speak of that game with the same rage I view the Indy road playoff loss or the Tyus Edney game and it simply doesn't move the needle with me at all.

They don't suck as much when you don't witness them.

The Tyus Edney game was much worse. Their play against Norfolk was maddening, but it just made you hate them.

The Edney game was heartbreaking. Despair is much worse than anger.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Charleston Southern 45% from 3
Mizzou 15% from 3

That's the difference in the game right there. Charleston Southern shot out of their mind and pulled the upset. Mizzou was 10% under from their average at 3.

Mizzou has been pretty good out of conference under Zo. First loss in Zo's era to a non-Power school.


This is probably the worst team any Mizzou team has lost to in more than 50 years. It's not just a non P5 school. This would be like losing to UCM in football.

[ChiefsCountry]

This is probably the worst team any Mizzou team has lost to in more than 50 years. It's not just a non P5 school. This would be like losing to UCM in football.

It's a really bad loss. Major fluke though.

[Pepe Silvia]

Kim Anderson was beyond awful, fellas.

Cuonzo isn't that. He's not APPROACHING that.

There's talent here. And a plan you can see. And an offensive system in place.

They just keep undermining themselves with the same error and it's ALWAYS !@#$ing ball control. Every single year this team has just been garbage with ball control. And they're similar to most middle-tier college teams in that they run hot and cold with their outside shooting.

If you aren't turning the ball over every 3rd possession you can muddle through your cold streaks and still pull out wins. But when you just keep turning the damn ball over, it's like being short-stacked in poker. You simply can't ride out a cold deck.

Cuonzo's looking like a JAG. He's looking a lot like Barry Odom, to be honest. No, Cuonzo isn't awful. Odom wasn't awful. Both guys have things they do very well. But they also have weaknesses that often undermine those strengths and end up stuck in mediocrity.

You're right but to be fair I did not say he was as bad as Anderson. I knew he wasn't that great of an in game coach and I knew he always had shitty offenses but I was hoping he could improve recruiting at the very least. When he was hired everyone said he was going to lock down St.Louis blah blah blah. So far it hasn't happened.

[Sully]

What the fuck...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[dlphg9]

What the ****...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

What?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This team confuses the hell out of me.

[DJ's left nut]

This team confuses the hell out of me.

Mark Smith and Tilmon combine for 4 points and they beat a quality team on a neutral court. I have no idea how they did that.

But I'm pretty convinced at this point that Jeremiah Tilmon just isn't very good. I don't know if he's just overthought himself into oblivion, but he's a disaster out there.

[duncan_idaho]

Mark Smith and Tilmon combine for 4 points and they beat a quality team on a neutral court. I have no idea how they did that.

But I'm pretty convinced at this point that Jeremiah Tilmon just isn't very good. I don't know if he's just overthought himself into oblivion, but he's a disaster out there.

Illinois is not a good shooting team and shot the ball even worse than normal today. That was the deal.

They also - weirdly - don't have a stretch 4 who can make 3s, which is generally an Achilles' heel for this team.

[Titty Meat]

Eh I think calling Illinois a "good" team might be a bit of a stretch. Underwood should have stayed at OSU.

[dlphg9]

Saturday is gonna be exciting. Gonna have to beat UK and the officials.

[dlphg9]

What a god damn surprise

MU - 28 Personal Fouls

Kentucky - 19 Personal Fouls

MU made more FG and 3 pointers, but lost by 12 because of FTs.

[Prison Bitch]

7 min till tip


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mizzou Arena is jumpin tonight <a href="https://t.co/gtBQ7hSHoZ">pic.twitter.com/gtBQ7hSHoZ</a></p>&mdash; B Turn (@bturner23) <a href="https://twitter.com/bturner23/status/1214702688224600064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[OKchiefs]

Anyone really think CM is going to turn around this sinking ship? One of the worst recruiting classes in the country and the current group of players is showing zero growth despite supposedly being the deepest we've had under CM. And not that it's his fault, but of course we yet again lose one of our top players for a significant chunk of the season. This is depressing.

[DJ's left nut]

7 min till tip


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mizzou Arena is jumpin tonight <a href="https://t.co/gtBQ7hSHoZ">pic.twitter.com/gtBQ7hSHoZ</a></p>&mdash; B Turn (@bturner23) <a href="https://twitter.com/bturner23/status/1214702688224600064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I was at the game; it was about 2/3 full by tip.

The student section was essentially empty but that's not surprising as school hasn't started back up yet so they're not in town.

Disappointing game - just could not buy a bucket. Pinson was just an Nth off all night; had 2 three pointers halfway down that rimmed out and a couple bunnies that he did a great job driving to create that he also just ticked off the rim. Mark Smith was as passive as I've ever seen him; wasn't looking for his shot and wasn't terribly active on defense. Was glad to see Jackson looking for ways to get involved and happy to see McKinney get some early run even if he's clearly not ready yet.

They did some good things last night but they just couldn't shoot. And unfortunately, TN started drilling 3s late to pull ahead. Now that doesn't say anything about the 3 or 4 WIDE OPEN three balls they hit earlier in the game when the D was just not closing out on shooters, but some of those shots TN hit late were tough, contested balls that TN doesn't usually hit and last night they did.

And not to go Full Pete or anything, but I still do not understand how Mizzou can't get calls at home. I swear they get better officiating on the road than they do at Mizzou Arena. And last night it was ONE FUCKING GUY. Shorter black dude with the shaved head was getting all up in his emotions anytime he got to blow a whistle on Mizzou. The other 2 weren't generally boning us but holy shit, there were at least 4 questionable calls last night that the one official emphatically called against Mizzou and it really bogged things down in the middle of that game (when Mizzou held a lead with about 5 left to play, IIRC).

It's hard to watch this team continue to regress offensively and believe Martin's a long-term answer. I REALLY like the guy, but this is a stone-aged offense. I'm a relatively informed basketball fan but have never played it at an organized level. When I can see the difference between the system Barnes is running and the one Martin is running, that's a pretty big problem. Someone who hasn't played organized basketball shouldn't be able to watch those two squads and realize "Damn, they're just far more creative on offense..."

They can't fire Cuonzo until 2021, but I have to believe they can get him an assistant that can do something about the offensive efficiency.

[duncan_idaho]

I was at the game; it was about 2/3 full by tip.



The student section was essentially empty but that's not surprising as school hasn't started back up yet so they're not in town.



Disappointing game - just could not buy a bucket. Pinson was just an Nth off all night; had 2 three pointers halfway down that rimmed out and a couple bunnies that he did a great job driving to create that he also just ticked off the rim. Mark Smith was as passive as I've ever seen him; wasn't looking for his shot and wasn't terribly active on defense. Was glad to see Jackson looking for ways to get involved and happy to see McKinney get some early run even if he's clearly not ready yet.



They did some good things last night but they just couldn't shoot. And unfortunately, TN started drilling 3s late to pull ahead. Now that doesn't say anything about the 3 or 4 WIDE OPEN three balls they hit earlier in the game when the D was just not closing out on shooters, but some of those shots TN hit late were tough, contested balls that TN doesn't usually hit and last night they did.



And not to go Full Pete or anything, but I still do not understand how Mizzou can't get calls at home. I swear they get better officiating on the road than they do at Mizzou Arena. And last night it was ONE FUCKING GUY. Shorter black dude with the shaved head was getting all up in his emotions anytime he got to blow a whistle on Mizzou. The other 2 weren't generally boning us but holy shit, there were at least 4 questionable calls last night that the one official emphatically called against Mizzou and it really bogged things down in the middle of that game (when Mizzou held a lead with about 5 left to play, IIRC).



It's hard to watch this team continue to regress offensively and believe Martin's a long-term answer. I REALLY like the guy, but this is a stone-aged offense. I'm a relatively informed basketball fan but have never played it at an organized level. When I can see the difference between the system Barnes is running and the one Martin is running, that's a pretty big problem. Someone who hasn't played organized basketball shouldn't be able to watch those two squads and realize "Damn, they're just far more creative on offense..."



They can't fire Cuonzo until 2021, but I have to believe they can get him an assistant that can do something about the offensive efficiency.


You’re right in all of this.

They already have an assistant on staff - Cornell Mann - who is supposed to be the offensive guru. He was with Hoiberg at Iowa State and is supposedly really good with that style of offensive basketball.

The problem is that Martin doesn’t recruit/sign/play players who can play that style of basketball.

He insists on running a slow pace, with traditional centers and power forwards. He’s not willing to go smaller to get more speed and skill on the floor.

Offensively, the design is just trash. They don’t run good sets, they don’t execute the sets they do run, and most of the players Martin has recruited don’t have the ability to create off the dribble.

He also doesn’t seem to have patience with the guys he has who can create off the dribble (Pinson on anyone, Brown on bigs, Jackson on bigs).

They could find some offensive efficiency just by playing Kobe Brown primarily as the second big, using Mitchell Smith or Tray Jackson as the biggest big, and using Pinson off the ball. That would space the floor better and open more driving lanes, and also make the screen game work much more efficiently.

Running high screens with guys like Nikko (and even Tilmon, when he doesn’t get whistles for an obvious/dumb moving screen) is pointless. Nikko is no threat at all - definitely isn’t going to pop, and doesn’t move well enough or have enough skill if passed the ball outside 2 ft to be a threat on the roll - so teams can just hedge hard against the ball handler and stifle the action.

He’s stuck in the 1990s with what he wants to do defensively and how he views positions. Which makes the talent he has recruited look worse than it is.

If he played smaller and pushed the pace, they’d get a lot more out of this collection of talent.

The other thing he does that drives me nuts is the inconsistent rotation. He yanks guys quickly, doesn’t pay attention to who has a hot hand, and varies PT widely from game-to-game. It’s hard to get into a flow offensively as a player like that.

They also clearly don’t spend much time working on offense in practice. This is evident in lots of ways, but here’s one from last night:

End of the first half, Mizzou has the last shot and calls a timeout to set it up. Tennessee adjust by coming out in a zone D. And Missouri has no clue what to do and ends up taking a contested 30-footer that almost led to a run out for a Tennessee.

A well-coached offensive team would recognize that switch, reorganize, and run a zone oriented play (preferably one that flashes a player who can shoot, pass, or drive to the high posts the weak spot of a 2-3). But nah. They just sat in what they were doing, swung the ball a few times, and took an awful shot.

[dlphg9]

I was at the game; it was about 2/3 full by tip.

The student section was essentially empty but that's not surprising as school hasn't started back up yet so they're not in town.

Disappointing game - just could not buy a bucket. Pinson was just an Nth off all night; had 2 three pointers halfway down that rimmed out and a couple bunnies that he did a great job driving to create that he also just ticked off the rim. Mark Smith was as passive as I've ever seen him; wasn't looking for his shot and wasn't terribly active on defense. Was glad to see Jackson looking for ways to get involved and happy to see McKinney get some early run even if he's clearly not ready yet.

They did some good things last night but they just couldn't shoot. And unfortunately, TN started drilling 3s late to pull ahead. Now that doesn't say anything about the 3 or 4 WIDE OPEN three balls they hit earlier in the game when the D was just not closing out on shooters, but some of those shots TN hit late were tough, contested balls that TN doesn't usually hit and last night they did.

And not to go Full Pete or anything, but I still do not understand how Mizzou can't get calls at home. I swear they get better officiating on the road than they do at Mizzou Arena. And last night it was ONE ****ING GUY. Shorter black dude with the shaved head was getting all up in his emotions anytime he got to blow a whistle on Mizzou. The other 2 weren't generally boning us but holy shit, there were at least 4 questionable calls last night that the one official emphatically called against Mizzou and it really bogged things down in the middle of that game (when Mizzou held a lead with about 5 left to play, IIRC).

It's hard to watch this team continue to regress offensively and believe Martin's a long-term answer. I REALLY like the guy, but this is a stone-aged offense. I'm a relatively informed basketball fan but have never played it at an organized level. When I can see the difference between the system Barnes is running and the one Martin is running, that's a pretty big problem. Someone who hasn't played organized basketball shouldn't be able to watch those two squads and realize "Damn, they're just far more creative on offense..."

They can't fire Cuonzo until 2021, but I have to believe they can get him an assistant that can do something about the offensive efficiency.

Bitch is obsessed with attendance and loves to pick out obscure games that have lower attendence, but if you used common sense you could figure out why it's not packed. He really likes early spring Royals games that occur at 1205 on a Thursday.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm not sure I completely agree with you on your 'patience' concerns, at least as they relate to Pinson and Brown.

You can see steam coming out of his ears at times with Pinson but he's really stood by him as he's learned. Pinson has grown a lot but still makes some unbelievably stupid mistakes at times (there's a LOT of Phil Pressey in the kid) and he usually has to make 2 or 3 of those in a row before Cuonzo finally sits him. Sometimes he gives Pinson a little too much rope, IMO.

As for Brown, I mean he's had a true freshman who was a late signee starting most of the year. That's pretty impressive. I think he's let Brown play through some issues as well. The problem with Brown is that he has GOT to start shooting as well as he thinks he can. I like Kobe Brown's potential a lot but right now the kid's putting up 3 triples/gm and hitting on 20% of them. I mean damn man, how much rope can you really give a guy like that? I like that he's a willing rebounder but he's also a ball-stopper. Make him your '2nd big' and you've really hurt yourself in one of his key traits; he's a good rebounder for a stretch 3 but if you're putting him at the 4, he's gonna be overmatched in that regard.

I think Cuonzo has really committed to Brown and probably moreso than his performance has truly warranted. I agree with you that I'd like to see him getting Jackson more involved and I think the TN game was a real positive step there. Jackson looked good last night. Watson....{sigh}....fear he might be a lost cause. There's something there that just isn't working. Watson sure appears to want to be spot-up shooter and he's just not good enough for that. And he doesn't contribute anywhere else when he's not hitting. He plays like Matt Lawrence except Matt Lawrence could actually shoot.

In other words, he plays like Jason Horton. I'm trying to remember a guy who just wanted to float around and miss 3-pointers and the best I can come up with is Teki Gill-Ceaser. This is NOT great company, Torrence. I did not expect this kind of game from him at all.

[F150]

Illinois is not a good shooting team and shot the ball even worse than normal today. That was the deal.

They also - weirdly - don't have a stretch 4 who can make 3s, which is generally an Achilles' heel for this team.


Purdue would say otherwise....

Illinois looks terribly inconsistent but when on, they are pretty solid.

The Mizzou win looking more like a lightning strike level of luck. Ill was off and Mizzou played better than they have this season

[dlphg9]

This team looks really fucking good at some points. What's the deal with Tray Jackson and his playing time? In 7 games he's had 9+ minutes, 4 games in which he's had less than 4 minutes, and 3 games he didn't even play. Then you have that no talent piece of shit Reed Nikko averaging 10 minutes a game getting 2.6 ppg and 2.3 RPG. He basically does nothing well and he's taking ti.e away from a guy that is talented, athletic, and would benefit from some extra minutes. Hell look at his Tennessee game, Jackson had 11 points in 9 minutes, got to the FT line 4 times, and had 3 rebounds. How did Martin not let him stay in?

[OKchiefs]

Weekend of highs and lows. We soundly beat UF but also may have run off Mario McKinney and one of the few decent talents CM has actually convinced to come to Columbia.

[DJ's left nut]

Had to get the brisket running for the Chiefs game so I wasn't able to make it to the FL game Saturday - probably missed the best game they'll play this year.

Hate to see the McKinney news but the bottom line is that we just don't know anything right now. Could be a 'tough love' thing but it also could be McKinney is starting fights in practice or something and simply isn't going to work out here.

I'd be awfully bummed out to see it. McKinney shows those same flashes that Pinson did last year where you just see an extra gear for him that will show up more and more as the game slows down. But sometimes a kid/coach just don't work out. And other times the kid just needs to be re-directed to reach his potential.

Hopefully this is the latter.

[OKchiefs]

It's too bad considering he's a legacy, you'd think Jimmy would be in his ear about not being an idiot.

[OKchiefs]

And he's gone!!! Now 1 scholarship open for 2020 assuming no more departures, however CM doesn't appear to be in on anyone...

[DJ's left nut]

Rumors 'round these parts are that he'd been getting in fights at practice and had become something of a general malcontent given his lack of playing time.

Seems pretty likely that it came down to Pinson v. McKinney and Cuonzo has a type. I always thought Cuonzo would like Pinson because he's a scrappy 'dirty tough' Chicago guard who has a chip on his shoulder.

Feels like the Geist thing 2.0 when Geist was getting PT over the two freshman and they couldn't break into the rotation ahead of him before eventually transferring. Turns out Blake Harris is just something of a flake and left NC State shortly thereafter as well. CJ Roberts appears to have just vanished.

For as upset as I was by that choice, Geist ended up being the better guy to keep anyway. Hopefully Cuonzo is right again but at some point he has to have a little lighter touch with these young guards.

[OKchiefs]

Rumors 'round these parts are that he'd been getting in fights at practice and had become something of a general malcontent given his lack of playing time.

Seems pretty likely that it came down to Pinson v. McKinney and Cuonzo has a type. I always thought Cuonzo would like Pinson because he's a scrappy 'dirty tough' Chicago guard who has a chip on his shoulder.

Feels like the Geist thing 2.0 when Geist was getting PT over the two freshman and they couldn't break into the rotation ahead of him before eventually transferring. Turns out Blake Harris is just something of a flake and left NC State shortly thereafter as well. CJ Roberts appears to have just vanished.

For as upset as I was by that choice, Geist ended up being the better guy to keep anyway. Hopefully Cuonzo is right again but at some point he has to have a little lighter touch with these young guards.

I don't hold this against him necessarily, but this is becoming way too common. And now after this season we will have zero underclass guards on the roster.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't hold this against him necessarily, but this is becoming way too common. And now after this season we will have zero underclass guards on the roster.

Exactly.

Best I can find is that Roberts flaked out on tech as well and is now playing community college ball for some place called Ranger college. Seems like Harris and Roberts just weren't cut out for the rigors of D1 ball - shit happens.

Maybe McKinney goes the same route. When the rubber hits the road, there are a lot more stories like Harris, Roberts and Gant than there are guys like JWIII who go someplace else and thrive.

But at some point you have to start finding ways to salvage assets or adjust your recruiting to account for personality somehow. You can't just keep roasting scholarships and recruiting capital on guys that aren't gonna fit here. The story is that Watts was in some ways a casualty of the McKinney recruiting tour so even if McKinney wasn't the right fit here, chasing him may have cost them Rocket so it's a loss both ways.

Something's gotta give...

[duncan_idaho]

Ranger is where Geist went. Billie Clyde Gillespie is the coach there, I believe.

Re: spots, I expect Tilmon to go make money playing professionally somewhere after this season. So they’re going to have 2.

They’re still chasing Josh Christopher. I don’t expect them to land him, but his list is small and not blue blood-ed up. Would be a Jaylen Brown-like WTF moment.

They should pursue a true transfer G for the other spot.

And they should run off Axel Okongo and use that scholarship on a grad transfer big man, who can pick and pop.

[DJ's left nut]

Christopher appears to be the only real plus recruit they're after.

Hell, he almost seems to be the only recruit they're after period.

Not been a great 12 months for Cuonzo...

[warpaint*]

Wake me when the Bozo experiment is taken out behind the shed & shot.

[dlphg9]

Good Lord 20 points in the 1st half.

[OKchiefs]

Cuonzo Martin is really not any better than Kim Anderson in the grand scheme of things.

[dlphg9]

Cuonzo Martin is really not any better than Kim Anderson in the grand scheme of things.

That may be the stupidest thing youve ever posted and thats saying alot because you're a moron. Martin isn't gonna make this team a power house, but Kimmy Anderson had 27 wins in 3 years. Martin had that many in half the time. KA had 7 conference wins in 3 seasons, Martin had 10 in his first season.

To act like Martin is anywhere near as bad as Kim is retarded. Quit being so emotional and posting when your on your period.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Cuonzo Martin is really not any better than Kim Anderson in the grand scheme of things.

But with Cuonzo working with him, Tillmon has improved from a raw big man who scored about 10ppg and couldn't play more than 10 minutes without getting into foul trouble, to a raw big man who scores about 9ppg and can't play more than 5 minutes without getting into foul trouble.

Think of all the blue-chippers that will attract.

[OKchiefs]

That may be the stupidest thing youve ever posted and thats saying alot because you're a moron. Martin isn't gonna make this team a power house, but Kimmy Anderson had 27 wins in 3 years. Martin had that many in half the time. KA had 7 conference wins in 3 seasons, Martin had 10 in his first season.

To act like Martin is anywhere near as bad as Kim is retarded. Quit being so emotional and posting when your on your period.

And how has Martin done without the Porters?

His first season doesn't count. He's going to be fired at the end of 2021.

[dlphg9]

Well here we go with Cuonzo giving Nikko too much god damn playing time, while our top recruit for the year sits on the god damn bench. That no talent piece of Kim Andersen recruiting trash got 23 min and that all resulted in 2 points 4 rebounds. Wtf is the point of playing him? Im really starting to hate Martin more and more.

[Pepe Silvia]

The team sucks but the SEC refs will always make sure Mizzou stays in the cellar. They get robbed consistently.

[ChiefsCountry]

How in the fuck can a team be so damn good shooting free throws and suck at threes?

Zo drew up a damn good play to win it. Could not ask for a better shot.

[warpaint*]

I don’t think the takeaway is the refs.
The team blows.

[duncan_idaho]

Just posted this on PowerMizzou, but this is awfully damn similar to mid-90s Norm Stewart, after Booker and before Dooling.

The offense is boring and slow and antiquated, as is the general style of play. And the recruiting sucks.

[F150]

The team sucks but the SEC refs will always make sure Mizzou stays in the cellar. They get robbed consistently.

I have not felt the losses are ref related. Its not a very good team and they dont have a very good coach.

But you may be right. Mizzou should push for an investigation of play calls if they are sure there is some malarky going on.

[warpaint*]

So we can't fire this bozo before May 1 of next year at the earliest. Unless they negotiate an exit sooner than that we could be stuck for an additional two seasons after this one. Depressing. Jim Sterk should be fired sometime before then. When you couple this hire with what he wanted to do with football in terms of the initial list of Anderson, Monken, & Holtz, I'm left to conclude that he may be an actual retarded person & I don't him anywhere near the next hire.

[OKchiefs]

So we can't fire this bozo before May 1 of next year at the earliest. Unless they negotiate an exit sooner than that we could be stuck for an additional two seasons after this one. Depressing. Jim Sterk should be fired sometime before then. When you couple this hire with what he wanted to do with football in terms of the initial list of Anderson, Monken, & Holtz, I'm left to conclude that he may be an actual retarded person & I don't him anywhere near the next hire.
Isn't the department running in the red? So they can't afford to pay a buyout or give any significant money to a new guy. Mizzou athletics is such a joke, it's a shame. No excuse.

[warpaint*]

Isn't the department running in the red? So they can't afford to pay a buyout or give any significant money to a new guy. Mizzou athletics is such a joke, it's a shame. No excuse.

Yes & no. Yes they have debt to pay down but there are also guys to write checks same way they made Odom go away.

Maybe Cuonzo will turn it around but at this time I see no evidence to make me think he will.

[F150]

Isn't the department running in the red? So they can't afford to pay a buyout or give any significant money to a new guy. Mizzou athletics is such a joke, it's a shame. No excuse.

Many areas of the university are in trouble it seems. Maybe the coach will have to stay, for sure they can't afford to buy him out then pay big bucks for the next bust.

[F150]

West Virginia 74 Mizzou 51

Tough day for the guys from Columbia

Keep your head up, we can do this

[dlphg9]

Once again Nikko gets over 20 minutes, 22 to be exact, and does jack shit scoring 3 points and getting 3 rebounds. Finally Cuonzo decided our top recruit Jackson could play, but not too much (10 minutes) because you just take Nikko off the court when hes scoring like he was. Jackson had 4 points and 5 rebounds in his short stint. Cuonzo needs to go since he's obssessed with freshmen riding the bench for shitty upper classmen that shouldnt even be on a D1 basketball team.

[phisherman]

Pretty nice comeback tonight. Nikko and Pinson were huge in the 2nd half.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Nikko saved the day ROFL

[Stanley Nickels]

The 174th-best team (per KenPom) was just throwing off-the-backboard alley-oops against us, up by 20 late. And this probably isn't the low point of the season. What an unmitigated disaster. Sterk shouldnt be allowed within 100 miles of Columbia MO for the next coaching search. I just wonder at what point the damage done by the past 3 coaches is irreversible.

[dlphg9]

Time to go out and hire another alum. We should try to find a guy that coaches D2. It worked out really well last time.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's becoming increasingly clear that Cuonzo isn't the guy, which sucks, because I think he's a good person.

[OKchiefs]

It's becoming increasingly clear that Cuonzo isn't the guy, which sucks, because I think he's a good person.

How soon before the university realizes Sterk isn't the guy either. Martin turned out to be a shit hire and he almost flubbed the football hire.

[jjchieffan]

Maybe the best moment of signing day was the reaction of Missouri coach Eli Drinkwitz to the commitment of cornerback Ennis Rakestraw. The joyous, emotional reaction was well-earned. After a strong senior season, Rakestraw had emerged as target for the in-state Longhorns and the mighty Alabama Crimson Tide. Most predictions were a combination of those two schools, but Rakestraw surprised even his future coach by picking the Tigers and putting a positive spin on Drinkwitz's first class

[ChiefsCountry]

MU is playing pretty good right now. Crickets in here.

[patteeu]

Braun is growing on me. He was really good tonight. Most of the team played pretty well.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Braun is growing on me. He was really good tonight. Most of the team played pretty well.

He's improved more in the last two weeks than Tillmon has in 3 years.

[Pitt Gorilla]

MU is playing pretty good right now. Crickets in here.Unfortunately, it's still college basketball, which is largely a garbage product.

[dlphg9]

Unfortunately, it's still college basketball, which is largely a garbage product.

You're largely a garbage product man!

[Pitt Gorilla]

You're largely a garbage product man!true, although that Super Bowl was good eats.

[WhawhaWhat]

MU is playing pretty good right now. Crickets in here.

Most people were fairly distracted until about 2 weeks ago and now the season is almost over. Hard to invest in a bad team that's going nowhere.

[OKchiefs]

I'd like to think the improved play carries over to next year, but what happens if Pinson and/or Tilmon leave early? It's not like we have incoming players to make up for their loss. We don't win the last 2 games without Pinson. Watson should probably find a mid major to transfer to because he's turned into a complete waste of a scholarship.

[patteeu]

I'd like to think the improved play carries over to next year, but what happens if Pinson and/or Tilmon leave early? It's not like we have incoming players to make up for their loss. We don't win the last 2 games without Pinson. Watson should probably find a mid major to transfer to because he's turned into a complete waste of a scholarship.

I’m not sure we’ll notice if Tillman leaves early.

[blake5676]

I’m not sure we’ll notice if Tillman leaves early.

If you'd have told me we'd be a better team WITHOUT Tilmon at any point in the last few years, I'd have called you crazy.

Dude sucks, hasn't improved at anything, and we're more fun to watch without him. He's a bum.

[comochiefsfan]

Went to the game last night.

Xavier Pinson is a revelation. He could seriously be an all american next season.

Parker Braun is very athletic, and is starting to eat into Tray Jackson's minutes. Still would like to see Cuonzo give Jackson some more run and allow him to integrate himself into the flow of the team.

Good few games. This team, as they're playing right now, is a tournament team. It's too bad it took them this long to figure it out.

[OKchiefs]

I’m not sure we’ll notice if Tillman leaves early.

True. I'm thinking a grad transfer could come in and at least equal, if not exceed, his production. I'm more worried about Pinson.

[OKchiefs]

Tray Jackson is planning on transferring from Mizzou. But hey, at least Cuonzo Martin is a good leader of young men showing them how to grow up. Not doing so great on the coaching or recruiting front, but that's not really all that important.

[gblowfish]

I saw Jackson up close during the Mizzou-Ark game in Columbia. I was not impressed. Pinson is a good guard. They just don't have enough talent or depth, which sucks. Seems like Mizzou should be able to find ten guys who can play....

[dlphg9]

Wow, the recruiting class looks absolutely pathetic. SMH. Even the guys that have us as one of their potential schools aren't very good.

19 offers to high school kids with 1 commit. Lost 2 St. Louis kids to...drum roll please...


K-State!

How the hell is CM losing in his supposed location of strength to K State. Good God, what a con.

[duncan_idaho]

Wow, the recruiting class looks absolutely pathetic. SMH. Even the guys that have us as one of their potential schools aren't very good.

19 offers to high school kids with 1 commit. Lost 2 St. Louis kids to...drum roll please...


K-State!

How the hell is CM losing in his supposed location of strength to K State. Good God, what a con.


Yeah. He’s worse than I expected.

Plus, Pinson is going to go play professionally next year, and the Hawaii transfer they’re bringing in definitely is worse than Pinson.

They’re going to be bad next year, and a potential disaster the year after.

And because of his contract, they probably can’t get rid of him until after two more seasons. Shit sucks.

They should have listened to me. I was Team CuonzNO when he was hired. Oh well.

[OKchiefs]

Wow, the recruiting class looks absolutely pathetic. SMH. Even the guys that have us as one of their potential schools aren't very good.

19 offers to high school kids with 1 commit. Lost 2 St. Louis kids to...drum roll please...


K-State!

How the hell is CM losing in his supposed location of strength to K State. Good God, what a con.

Didn't you give me shit a couple of months ago for comparing CM to KA? Perhaps they're not too far off from each other after all.

They're going to need to fill something like 6-7 scholarships this coming year, and I just read a post on another forum about how most of their top targets are already being courted by blue bloods and die to the current crisis they don't have the capability to to get out and scout secondary targets. I'd wager on another recruiting class in 2021 of Wilmore and Okomgo types, players ranked in the 300-400 range who mostly have offers from bottom tier mid-majors. But due to his buyout CM likely still has 2 more seasons in Columbia to further crater the program. Him and Steel should be gone ASAP.

[gblowfish]

Cuonzo is screwed now that he's run outta Porters!

[dlphg9]

Yeah. He’s worse than I expected.

Plus, Pinson is going to go play professionally next year, and the Hawaii transfer they’re bringing in definitely is worse than Pinson.

They’re going to be bad next year, and a potential disaster the year after.

And because of his contract, they probably can’t get rid of him until after two more seasons. Shit sucks.

They should have listened to me. I was Team CuonzNO when he was hired. Oh well.

I was never a big Cuonzo fan at first, but I let the excitement of getting Michael and Jontay Porter cloud my vision. I thought CM might be able to snowball that first season into getting some big recruits and sustained success, but instead of rolling over more snow he ran into a fire pit.