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T-post Tom
11-14-2019, 07:04 PM
Football is the most beautiful sport there is, in part because of how complex it is. Every play contains dozens of small stories, and it’s impossible to follow them all during a broadcast viewing. So every week at The Athletic, I’ll break down the big finds I see on film from each game and some tidbits that might have been missed. And, of course, Patrick Mahomes.

One of the hottest trends in NFL analysis currently is the phrase “(fill in the blank) doesn’t/don’t matter.” Whether it’s running backs, offensive linemen, the running game itself, pass rushers as compared to coverage … people are fond of saying that certain things don’t affect the outcome of a game as much as others and therefore don’t matter. It’s hyperbole, but meant to make an overarching point (for example, saying that run defense doesn’t matter is an exaggerated way of saying it’s not as important as pass defense, but I digress).

On Sunday, the Chiefs decided to make a new thing not matter: elite quarterback play. Patrick Mahomes, back from a brief hiatus with a knee injury, played a phenomenal game and the Chiefs still couldn’t win. Perhaps this will be the beginning of a “quarterbacks don’t matter” movement. Of course, that’s unlikely. Sunday’s game against the Titans was more an affirmation of what people should already know: Football is a complicated game, and any one factor can’t necessarily lead to a win if enough other things go wrong. Even superb play from a signal-caller.

That said, if there’s anything that should make Chiefs fans breathe a little easier following a loss that played out like some sort of strange dark comedy film, it’s the play of Mahomes. He was magnificent in his return, looking as healthy as he has appeared since Week 1 of the season. He read the Titans’ defense well all game and created plays even when opportunities weren’t immediately present.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13230554/Mahomes-created-play-to-Robinson.mp4?_=1

Mahomes played even better and more efficiently than the box score indicated, which is impressive given that he threw for 446 yards and 3 touchdowns. The reality is that drops (which we’ll discuss more below) played a major role in muting Mahomes’ stats. He lost a touchdown and several other crucial plays that would have extended drives and tacked on even more passing yards.

Mahomes’ in-depth numbers were very good in his first game back, as he picked up where he left off against Denver. Here’s a primer on the numbers I chart to go beyond the box score and analyze what really matters in quarterback play. Keep in mind that not all throws can be charted for depth of target and/or accuracy, so the numbers may look a tad wonky.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14013440/Chiefs3.png

Mahomes had one of the highest numbers I’ve ever charted of “franchise throws” against Tennessee, repeatedly making throws from tough angles and finding open spaces in the Titans defense. He was also accurate throughout the game, especially after an initial drive in which he threw two potential picks (one of which was his fault, the other of which was the result of receiver Tyreek Hill being knocked off his route).

This game provided multiple examples of one of Mahomes’ best traits: the ability to throw with anticipation. Some people refer to it as “throwing receivers open.”

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13232101/Mahomes-3rd-and-6-conversion-throwing-Hill-open-vs-blitz.mp4?_=2

On this 3rd-and-6, Mahomes recognizes pre-snap that a blitz is likely coming. Once the ball is snapped, he’s aware that he doesn’t have much time and drifts back to buy his receivers an extra second to get open. He correctly reads that the Titans are dropping into a zone and knows that Hill’s crossing route will eventually bring him into an empty spot of grass. There’s not enough time to wait for Hill to get open with the rush closing in, though, so Mahomes throws the ball well ahead of Hill into the open zone.

The excellence of this throw becomes more apparent when it’s stopped when Mahomes is starting his throw.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just saw that you showed this one! I didn&#39;t realize what a crazy throw this was. You cannot play zone against this man.</p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1194461548921655299?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Hill is nowhere near open when Mahomes makes his decision. Putting the ball in a place like this requires having an understanding of where the chess pieces on the field are going rather than reading where they currently are. This ability to see a step ahead is one reason Mahomes doesn’t throw nearly as many interceptions as people anticipated despite his aggressive nature. He realizes that the football field is a dynamic place and doesn’t wait for players to be in a spot before making decisions. That allows him to get the ball out quickly and prevents defenders from contesting the catch.

Mahomes’ made many anticipation throws Sunday, perhaps none prettier than this touchdown to Hill.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13233134/Mahomes-throws-to-spot-on-Hill-TD-lofts-it-vs-man.mp4?_=3

Here, Mahomes correctly identifies that the Titans are playing man and that the safety is in coverage underneath rather than helping deep. That means the left side of the field will be wide open. Mahomes lofts the ball to the end zone with the understanding that no one can run with Hill over that amount of space as long as the ball is thrown well in front of him. It’s a throw that looks easy but requires the ability to read the defense perfectly and play with anticipation.

Mahomes did miss a few throws Sunday, including a deep ball to Hill that would have been a sure touchdown. He also had a couple of missed shots throughout the day. It appeared that Cam Erving’s struggles at left tackle altered the Chiefs’ game plan somewhat over the course of the day.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13233517/Erving-quick-sack-given-up.mp4?_=4

There’s no need to belabor what has become fairly obvious, but Erving has struggled in spots backing up Eric Fisher. The problem is one of consistency and speed of his losses. It’s impossible to know prior to the snap whether Erving will dominate the rep or give up immediate pressure. That makes it risky for the Chiefs to call longer-developing routes and difficult for Mahomes to survey the field. After this disastrous rep that knocked right tackle Mitchell Schwartz out of the game temporarily, the Chiefs shifted to a more quick-strike attack.

The Chiefs are again at full strength in terms of their playmakers, and Mahomes looks as good as he ever has. But the full potential of the offense might still be a bit held back until regular starter Eric Fisher can return.

The defensive struggles

The Chiefs had been playing well defensively prior to facing the Titans, then they ended up losing a shootout to Ryan Tannehill and Derrick Henry. It was a tough performance to watch, but if one were looking for a positive note, it would be that the defense wasn’t responsible for all the points given up Sunday — the Titans returned a fumble by running back Damien Williams for a touchdown — and that a large percentage of the Titans’ yards came on two plays.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14002015/defense-deep-shot-in-2nd-Q-Lucas-and-Ward-52-yards.mp4?_=5

However, defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo made some mystifying personnel decisions Sunday, including using Jordan Lucas as his deep safety on multiple early snaps. Lucas is at his best in the intermediate portion of the field or close to the line of scrimmage. Here, cornerback Charvarius Ward appears to be giving up inside leverage while expecting help deep from Lucas. In the meantime, another crossing route is underneath Lucas. He must make a choice what route to defend, with both giving up separation.

Lucas doesn’t stay deep enough here as the last line of defense, and chooses to try and cut off the crossing route. While it’s impossible to know his assignment without knowing the play call, generally a single high safety’s job is to keep all routes in front of him and prioritizing help with deep posts before intermediate crossing routes. While Lucas was placed in a tough position, he makes the wrong choice. Had he stayed deep, Tannehill likely doesn’t even attempt to throw to the post, and the pass rush might have gotten to him. It’s a frustrating play because rookie safety Juan Thornhill hasn’t given up these types of throws, yet was not in position to help prevent it for reasons that haven’t been made clear.

The second big play the Chiefs gave up was equally ugly, and again contains another strange personnel choice.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14002548/defense-Henry-long-TD-68-yards.mp4?_=6

A great deal was made about linebacker Reggie Ragland’s lack of snaps against the Titans, which makes sense considering the style of football they play. However, it should be noted that on the biggest run play of the game, Ragland was on the field and overran what should be his assignment. This provided Henry with a huge lane to cut back through. Chris Jones was on the edge on this snap as well, but was unable to squeeze the lane shut after being forced to stay home and protect the bootleg.

The personnel complaint I’d make here is that Joey Ivie is on the field rather than Mike Pennel (who was inactive in favor of Ivie). Both are defensive tackles, but Pennel weighs an additional 30 pounds and is much more stout at the point of attack than Ivie, who is more of a penetrating tackle than a run-stopper. Ivie gets washed aside so far that he can’t help slow down Henry during the cutback, and it’s hard to believe Pennel wouldn’t have made a difference here.

With Ivie getting moved, Ragland over-pursuing and Jones forced to stay home, the play comes down to Thornhill trying to tackle Henry, who is a big runner and has a head of steam. That’s a tough spot to be in, but Thornhill doesn’t even slow down the big back and the race to the end zone begins. In all, this play consisted of at least one personnel failure that’s on Spagnuolo (Ivie in rather than Pennel), but execution failures from Ragland and Thornhill are what made it such a big play.

These two plays accounted for 32.3 percent of Tennessee’s offensive output Sunday, but it was enough to keep them in the game when combined with a defensive touchdown. This allowed for the Titans to continue to run the ball and gave them a puncher’s chance in the fourth quarter, which they took advantage of after a series of mistakes (as noted in detail earlier this week) by the Chiefs.

The Chiefs came into the game with what appeared to be a rather strange plan at times and definitely didn’t use the personnel that would have benefited them the most early, but some of the failures late simply came down to execution.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14005400/DL-just-gets-handled.mp4?_=7

Here, it appears Tyrann Mathieu guesses wrong as to where the run will go and laves a gap wide open to exploit. It doesn’t help that both Jones and Khalen Saunders don’t control the point of attack against individual blockers; though Saunders does get some push and Jones holds the edge just fine, neither is dominant. The Chiefs often appeared to be looking for the Titans to run to the strong side behind their tight ends, and Tennessee repeatedly took advantage of that assumption.

It should also be noted that despite the defense giving up a few huge plays, they made a crucial stop in the fourth quarter, giving the Chiefs the ball back on Tennessee’s 28-yard-line with 1:48 remaining in the game and the Chiefs leading by five points. That should have been enough to win the game, just like holding the Titans to a single touchdown in the first half should have been enough to put the game out of reach of a ground-and-pound strategy.

Unfortunately, it wasn’t. The offense couldn’t hold up its end of the bargain and went 3-and-out. Then special teams, on a particularly bad day for them, botched the field goal that should have put the Chiefs up eight points and led to a kickoff that would pin the Titans back in their territory. Instead, Tennessee got the ball on their own 39-yard-line down five points with newfound hope.

All of this is a long road to a short thought: The defense did struggle at times Sunday and allowed an inexcusable final go-ahead drive by Tennessee, but it did do enough in key moments for the game to be won and wasn’t quite the disaster it appeared on the surface.

Spagnuolo, the good and bad

The Chiefs’ defensive coordinator has done some good things this season, including dialing up pressure on opposing quarterbacks through various stunts and twists.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14010423/defense-twist.stunt-Ogbah-sack.mp4?_=8

Here, Spagnuolo has both Tanoh Kpassagnon and Jones serve as distractions for the right side of the line by crashing outside. Emmanuel Ogbah loops inside and the Chiefs collect a quick sack. The timing on these movements has improved significantly since the season began, and should only continue to do so despite Ogbah’s unfortunate injury Sunday.

However, the defense has also made mistakes that are unspeakably brutal. Some of the odd personnel choices are laid out above, but once again on Sunday, the defense couldn’t even get all 11 men on the field on a crucial snap.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holy crap they did it again. <br><br>I have no words. <a href="https://t.co/TqIpsPVo5i">https://t.co/TqIpsPVo5i</a> <a href="https://t.co/zWWjSFHI0V">pic.twitter.com/zWWjSFHI0V</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1194447238698864640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Fans who attended the game live replied to this tweet indicating that it appeared Frank Clark was supposed to be the 11th defender here but got on the field late and would have been offsides, so he stayed on the sideline. This provided a wide open B gap for Henry to waltz through on the right side of the defense.

This is the second time the Chiefs have given up a touchdown with 10 men on the field. That sort of thing, along with missed assignments in run fits, must go away if Spagnuolo’s defense is going to find consistency. While the scheme has been solid, the details have been lacking. Spagnuolo’s habit of rotating defensive linemen could make it tough for players to always know when it’s their time, but as the coordinator, Spagnuolo must lock down those simple mistakes.

Wisniewski plays well

Stefan Wisniewski was forced into action due to a rash of injuries along the offensive line Sunday, and the veteran lineman held up extremely well. I charted every snap for pass-block and run-blocking wins/losses/neutral snaps, as well as pressures/hits/sacks allowed.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14011455/Chiefs21.png

Wisniewski lost only two snaps Sunday and played a game that could be described as elite. He caught the eye of Pro Football Focus for his efforts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After losing Martinas Rankin, the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> needed help from the bench and they got it.<br><br>Stefen Wisniewski<br>• 42 snaps, all at left guard<br>• 87.6 Pass Block grade, 2nd highest Pass Block grade of Week 10 among all offensive linemen (Colts LG Quenton Nelson - 89.6)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1194320778281574401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Wisniewski doesn’t have the athleticism he used to possess, but he has a solid understanding of where he needs to be along the line in pass protection and wasn’t thrown off by blitzes or movement up front. He also showed excellent hand placement and a solid base in one-on-one matchups.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14011802/Wis-defenders-cant-disengage-well.mp4?_=9

This is a fast throw, but Wisniewski’s effort is demonstrative of what he did throughout the day. He has a good initial punch and almost always lands it inside the pads of his opponent. Once there, he latches on and rushers aren’t able to disengage from him. His feet aren’t fast, but his technique is sound and he generally doesn’t allow defenders to rush by or move him backwards.

Wisniewski is active along the line, staying busy when he doesn’t have a man to block, but he doesn’t travel very far. He’s aggressive and understands where to move defenders in order to limit their pass rush, and he helps finish blocks.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14012041/Wis-good-hands-inside-pad-level-helps-finish.mp4?_=10

Here, Wisniewski shows that strong initial punch and excellent hand placement. He’s able to shove the pass rusher into center Austin Reiter and rock him off balance. After that, he keeps the pressure on the block and helps Reiter throw the defender to the ground.

As a run blocker, Wisniewski shows some pop at the point of attack. He’s not particularly athletic, but he knows where he must be in space and how to engage defenders. He’s also very sound walling off would-be tacklers and altering his leverage according to where the play goes.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14012343/Wis-movement-understands-angles.mp4?_=11

Note that Wisniewski doesn’t just lay a hit on the defender, but rotates around him to ensure that he can’t make a play on the running back as the play develops. That sort of subtlety helps account for the fact that Wisniewski doesn’t move with the speed of the rest of the Chiefs’ guards.

Wisniewski’s lateral movement appears somewhat limited, and that can be concerning at times.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14012609/Wis-lateral-agility-not-great.mp4?_=12

Opposing teams are going to be looking at weaknesses to exploit in the veteran in future weeks if he continues to play, and that inability to always stay in front of quicker defenders could be problematic. But Wisniewski’s overall performance Sunday was impressive. He did a better job as a pass blocker than Andrew Wylie has all year, and if Laurent Duvernay-Tardif is able to return at right guard in the future, Andy Reid ought to consider leaving Wisniewski in for that purpose.

Drops ruined what could have been an even more explosive day

Both Watkins and Hill had crucial drops Sunday. It wasn’t simply the yardage lost that was so harmful, rather the timing of those drops.

Hill had an easy drop with 3:30 left in the fourth quarter that was one of the most impactful plays of the game despite looking relatively harmless.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14013105/drop-Hill-drop-2nd-and-8-in-4th-Q.mp4?_=13

While the drop cost the Chiefs only a few yards, the incomplete pass stopped the clock with 3:24 remaining. Had Hill held on to the ball, another 45 seconds would have run off the clock or the Titans would have needed to use their first timeout earlier than they did. Either of those scenarios changes the complexion of the game substantially. Hill dropped the next throw, too, though it was a tough catch in the end zone against good coverage. If either of those are made, it changes the outcome of the game.

Watkins had a pair of crucial drops as well. The first occurred in the second quarter and was the more egregious of the two.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14013609/drop-Watkins-3rd-and-10-drop.mp4?_=14

This came on 3rd-and-10 as the Chiefs attempted to extend their 10-0 lead. Mahomes buys time by backpedaling and sees Watkins come open across the middle of the field. The throw is late, but delivered well before the defender can arrive. Watkins doesn’t seem to realize the ball is about to be thrown and looks away from Mahomes briefly to eye a defender, and because of that, he gets his hands up late on a throw that is a bit high. Despite less-than-ideal placement, this is a catch an NFL receiver should make.

Had Watkins fallen down the moment he caught the ball, the Chiefs would be facing 1st-and-10 on the 36-yard-line, within field-goal range and threatening to score. Instead, they were forced to punt, and due to a bad kick, the Titans got the ball on their own 27-yard-line. The very next play, Tannehill went deep for a big gain and the Titans were right back in it instead of being buried. Watkins had a second drop down the right sideline later in the game that would have put the Chiefs inside the red zone on a possession they had to settle for a field goal. While it was well-defended, the ball was perfectly placed and Watkins had time to control it before the cornerback brought his hands down.

While the defense and special teams were bigger problems as a whole, the offense will need to tighten up its self-inflicted wounds if it wants to reach its potential. There’s not a defense on earth that can contain them when they aren’t shooting themselves in the foot, but they’ve done enough to stop themselves in crucial moments. Like the other aspects of the game that led to a loss Sunday, this can be fixed. But also like the other aspects of the game that led to a loss, it will need to happen sooner rather than later if the Chiefs want to ensure they don’t waste what was expected to be a special season.

By Seth Keysor

Only thing missing from the article was this. Will never tire of watching this. (Hit play button & then link to YouTube. Thanks NFL.) :) Enjoy...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DE5DtEuuV2Y" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


https://theathletic.com/1377169/2019/11/14/chiefs-film-review-mahomes-excellence-cam-ervings-struggles-thoughts-on-defense/?amp#click=https://t.co/1AClspZyAO

Hammock Parties
11-14-2019, 07:08 PM
mahomes sees things before they happen

he is definitely our kwisatz haderach

pugsnotdrugs19
11-14-2019, 07:10 PM
Mahomes is obviously the primary reason that this team WILL get right and start rolling... Monday.

Megatron96
11-14-2019, 07:17 PM
I never even noticed Lucas getting on the field.

Really good article. Thanks for posting.

Megatron96
11-14-2019, 07:18 PM
Also that play where Watkins misses the catch looks more egregious from the end-zone angle.

Marcellus
11-14-2019, 07:24 PM
Dude looks healthy as fuck. Get Fisher back in there and we roll.

Megatron96
11-14-2019, 07:26 PM
Also liked the Wiz analysis. He looked pretty good out there.

Marcellus
11-14-2019, 07:28 PM
Also liked the Wiz analysis. He looked pretty good out there.

With Fisher, Wiz, Wiley, LDT, and Schwartz we could have a hell of an OL finally.

T-post Tom
11-14-2019, 07:30 PM
Also that play where Watkins misses the catch looks more egregious from the end-zone angle.

Andy was yelling at Watkins on the sideline, asking him if he "can catch the ball." Also, I noticed that Watson pulled a Marcus Peters and made a business decision NOT to try and block a LB after Kelce made a big catch. Because of that, the LB was all over Kelce & prevented a first down by a few yards. That resulted in 4th & short...and a FG rather than a potential TD. Not necessarily down on Watkins, but he had some bad moments in that game.

Flying High D
11-14-2019, 07:37 PM
Scammy can Skamper back to where he came from.

RunKC
11-14-2019, 07:42 PM
Mahomes is obviously the primary reason that this team WILL get right and start rolling... Monday.

Through leadership? Yeah. Unfortunately Mahomes can’t carry these assholes all the time by himself.

I mean goddamn. He threw for 400+ yards, 3 TD’s and 0 INT’s and we still lost.

Chiefspants
11-14-2019, 07:45 PM
Andy was yelling at Watkins on the sideline, asking him if he "can catch the ball." Also, I noticed that Watson pulled a Marcus Peters and made a business decision NOT to try and block a LB after Kelce made a big catch. Because of that, the LB was all over Kelce & prevented a first down by a few yards. That resulted in 4th & short...and a FG rather than a potential TD. Not necessarily down on Watson, but he had some bad moments in that game.

Watkins mailed it in for the entire game. This was a "get to 2020” game.

TEX
11-14-2019, 07:46 PM
Through leadership? Yeah. Unfortunately Mahomes can’t carry these assholes all the time by himself.

I mean goddamn. He threw for 400+ yards, 3 TD’s and 0 INT’s and we still lost.

Exactly. :shake:

pugsnotdrugs19
11-14-2019, 07:47 PM
Through leadership? Yeah. Unfortunately Mahomes can’t carry these assholes all the time by himself.

I mean goddamn. He threw for 400+ yards, 3 TD’s and 0 INT’s and we still lost.

That’s what I meant. I already know he’s gonna ball.

Now I think he takes the next step and starts chewing ass when dudes aren’t playing up to standard.

TEX
11-14-2019, 07:48 PM
Watkins mailed it in for the entire game. This was a "get to 2020 game".

Can't wait till that dude is off the team.

Hammock Parties
11-14-2019, 07:48 PM
if sammy helps us win a SB i don't care about any of this shit

TEX
11-14-2019, 07:49 PM
That’s what I meant. I already know he’s gonna ball.

Now I think he takes the next step and starts chewing ass when dudes aren’t playing up to standard.


That's the latest "Hot Take" from the hot take crowd.

TEX
11-14-2019, 07:50 PM
if sammy helps us win a SB i don't care about any of this shit


Sammy will be gone when the Chiefs make the SB. So fuck him.

T-post Tom
11-14-2019, 07:52 PM
Does anyone know how to stop embeded MP4s from autoplaying/autostarting?

Spott
11-14-2019, 07:57 PM
Sammy will be gone when the Chiefs make the SB. So fuck him.

We will all be gone when the Chiefs make the SB.

TEX
11-14-2019, 07:58 PM
We will all be gone when the Chiefs make the SB.


:clap: ROFL

Megatron96
11-14-2019, 07:58 PM
if sammy helps us win a SB i don't care about any of this shit

I completely agree. But he left a few plays on the field Sunday. Disappointing at least.

pugsnotdrugs19
11-14-2019, 08:00 PM
That's the latest "Hot Take" from the hot take crowd.

That’s... not a hot take?

Cosmos
11-14-2019, 08:02 PM
Great read...Rep to OP.

:thumb:

Marcellus
11-14-2019, 08:13 PM
Sammy will be gone when the Chiefs make the SB. So **** him.

I guess you have already forgotten the AFFCG where he was far and away the best WR on the field.

TEX
11-14-2019, 08:18 PM
I guess you have already forgotten the AFFCG where he was far and away the best WR on the field.

I didn't forget anything. Tell me, was that after he missed like 5 or 6 games and when the Patriots basically took Hill out of the game? Spare me the Watkins is awesome takes. Hes not. He has like one or two really solid games a year and then he's either hurt or we're wondering where he is on the field.

MGRS13
11-14-2019, 08:23 PM
Big numbers doesn't win games. Not saying he is, certainly his sample size is much smaller, but he's looking more like Stafford then Brady. He's got to start winning these games late. Everyone knows the defense sucks and special teams are shaky at best. It's all on him, if he's one the best he can do it. Right now jury out.

TEX
11-14-2019, 08:24 PM
Big numbers doesn't win games. Not saying he is, certainly his sample size is much smaller, but he's looking more like Stafford then Brady. He's got to start winning these games late. Everyone knows the defense sucks and special teams are shaky at best. It's all on him, if he's one the best he can do it. Right now jury out.

****ing RETARD!

DaFace
11-14-2019, 08:39 PM
You could at least post a link to the original article if you are going to C&P paid content.

Marcellus
11-14-2019, 08:44 PM
I didn't forget anything. Tell me, was that after he missed like 5 or 6 games and when the Patriots basically took Hill out of the game? Spare me the Watkins is awesome takes. Hes not. He has like one or two really solid games a year and then he's either hurt or we're wondering where he is on the field.

You are really really good at wearing blinders.

Regardless Watkins is gone next year so quite your bitching.

But if he goes off in the AFCCG and we don't have an offsides keep us from the SB I don't want to hear from you celebrating about it.

TEX
11-14-2019, 08:49 PM
You are really really good at wearing blinders.

Regardless Watkins is gone next year so quite your bitching.

But if he goes off in the AFCCG and we don't have an offsides keep us from the SB I don't want to hear from you celebrating about it.

When you're forcing your narrative on people, blinders are needed... And I can celebrate whenever I want, about whatever I want. If you don't want to hear about it, I suggest wearing said blinders.

Marcellus
11-14-2019, 08:52 PM
When you're forcing your narrative on people, blinders are needed... And I can celebrate whenever I want, about whatever I want. If you don't want to hear about it, I suggest wearing said blinders.

What narrative am I forcing on anyone? Help me out here, there is a narrative? Do you know what the definition of narrative is?

GloryDayz
11-14-2019, 08:54 PM
Football is the most beautiful sport there is, in part because of how complex it is. Every play contains dozens of small stories, and it’s impossible to follow them all during a broadcast viewing. So every week at The Athletic, I’ll break down the big finds I see on film from each game and some tidbits that might have been missed. And, of course, Patrick Mahomes.

One of the hottest trends in NFL analysis currently is the phrase “(fill in the blank) doesn’t/don’t matter.” Whether it’s running backs, offensive linemen, the running game itself, pass rushers as compared to coverage … people are fond of saying that certain things don’t affect the outcome of a game as much as others and therefore don’t matter. It’s hyperbole, but meant to make an overarching point (for example, saying that run defense doesn’t matter is an exaggerated way of saying it’s not as important as pass defense, but I digress).

On Sunday, the Chiefs decided to make a new thing not matter: elite quarterback play. Patrick Mahomes, back from a brief hiatus with a knee injury, played a phenomenal game and the Chiefs still couldn’t win. Perhaps this will be the beginning of a “quarterbacks don’t matter” movement. Of course, that’s unlikely. Sunday’s game against the Titans was more an affirmation of what people should already know: Football is a complicated game, and any one factor can’t necessarily lead to a win if enough other things go wrong. Even superb play from a signal-caller.

That said, if there’s anything that should make Chiefs fans breathe a little easier following a loss that played out like some sort of strange dark comedy film, it’s the play of Mahomes. He was magnificent in his return, looking as healthy as he has appeared since Week 1 of the season. He read the Titans’ defense well all game and created plays even when opportunities weren’t immediately present.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13230554/Mahomes-created-play-to-Robinson.mp4?_=1

Mahomes played even better and more efficiently than the box score indicated, which is impressive given that he threw for 446 yards and 3 touchdowns. The reality is that drops (which we’ll discuss more below) played a major role in muting Mahomes’ stats. He lost a touchdown and several other crucial plays that would have extended drives and tacked on even more passing yards.

Mahomes’ in-depth numbers were very good in his first game back, as he picked up where he left off against Denver. Here’s a primer on the numbers I chart to go beyond the box score and analyze what really matters in quarterback play. Keep in mind that not all throws can be charted for depth of target and/or accuracy, so the numbers may look a tad wonky.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14013440/Chiefs3.png

Mahomes had one of the highest numbers I’ve ever charted of “franchise throws” against Tennessee, repeatedly making throws from tough angles and finding open spaces in the Titans defense. He was also accurate throughout the game, especially after an initial drive in which he threw two potential picks (one of which was his fault, the other of which was the result of receiver Tyreek Hill being knocked off his route).

This game provided multiple examples of one of Mahomes’ best traits: the ability to throw with anticipation. Some people refer to it as “throwing receivers open.”

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13232101/Mahomes-3rd-and-6-conversion-throwing-Hill-open-vs-blitz.mp4?_=2

On this 3rd-and-6, Mahomes recognizes pre-snap that a blitz is likely coming. Once the ball is snapped, he’s aware that he doesn’t have much time and drifts back to buy his receivers an extra second to get open. He correctly reads that the Titans are dropping into a zone and knows that Hill’s crossing route will eventually bring him into an empty spot of grass. There’s not enough time to wait for Hill to get open with the rush closing in, though, so Mahomes throws the ball well ahead of Hill into the open zone.

The excellence of this throw becomes more apparent when it’s stopped when Mahomes is starting his throw.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just saw that you showed this one! I didn&#39;t realize what a crazy throw this was. You cannot play zone against this man.</p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1194461548921655299?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Hill is nowhere near open when Mahomes makes his decision. Putting the ball in a place like this requires having an understanding of where the chess pieces on the field are going rather than reading where they currently are. This ability to see a step ahead is one reason Mahomes doesn’t throw nearly as many interceptions as people anticipated despite his aggressive nature. He realizes that the football field is a dynamic place and doesn’t wait for players to be in a spot before making decisions. That allows him to get the ball out quickly and prevents defenders from contesting the catch.

Mahomes’ made many anticipation throws Sunday, perhaps none prettier than this touchdown to Hill.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13233134/Mahomes-throws-to-spot-on-Hill-TD-lofts-it-vs-man.mp4?_=3

Here, Mahomes correctly identifies that the Titans are playing man and that the safety is in coverage underneath rather than helping deep. That means the left side of the field will be wide open. Mahomes lofts the ball to the end zone with the understanding that no one can run with Hill over that amount of space as long as the ball is thrown well in front of him. It’s a throw that looks easy but requires the ability to read the defense perfectly and play with anticipation.

Mahomes did miss a few throws Sunday, including a deep ball to Hill that would have been a sure touchdown. He also had a couple of missed shots throughout the day. It appeared that Cam Erving’s struggles at left tackle altered the Chiefs’ game plan somewhat over the course of the day.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/13233517/Erving-quick-sack-given-up.mp4?_=4

There’s no need to belabor what has become fairly obvious, but Erving has struggled in spots backing up Eric Fisher. The problem is one of consistency and speed of his losses. It’s impossible to know prior to the snap whether Erving will dominate the rep or give up immediate pressure. That makes it risky for the Chiefs to call longer-developing routes and difficult for Mahomes to survey the field. After this disastrous rep that knocked right tackle Mitchell Schwartz out of the game temporarily, the Chiefs shifted to a more quick-strike attack.

The Chiefs are again at full strength in terms of their playmakers, and Mahomes looks as good as he ever has. But the full potential of the offense might still be a bit held back until regular starter Eric Fisher can return.

The defensive struggles

The Chiefs had been playing well defensively prior to facing the Titans, then they ended up losing a shootout to Ryan Tannehill and Derrick Henry. It was a tough performance to watch, but if one were looking for a positive note, it would be that the defense wasn’t responsible for all the points given up Sunday — the Titans returned a fumble by running back Damien Williams for a touchdown — and that a large percentage of the Titans’ yards came on two plays.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14002015/defense-deep-shot-in-2nd-Q-Lucas-and-Ward-52-yards.mp4?_=5

However, defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo made some mystifying personnel decisions Sunday, including using Jordan Lucas as his deep safety on multiple early snaps. Lucas is at his best in the intermediate portion of the field or close to the line of scrimmage. Here, cornerback Charvarius Ward appears to be giving up inside leverage while expecting help deep from Lucas. In the meantime, another crossing route is underneath Lucas. He must make a choice what route to defend, with both giving up separation.

Lucas doesn’t stay deep enough here as the last line of defense, and chooses to try and cut off the crossing route. While it’s impossible to know his assignment without knowing the play call, generally a single high safety’s job is to keep all routes in front of him and prioritizing help with deep posts before intermediate crossing routes. While Lucas was placed in a tough position, he makes the wrong choice. Had he stayed deep, Tannehill likely doesn’t even attempt to throw to the post, and the pass rush might have gotten to him. It’s a frustrating play because rookie safety Juan Thornhill hasn’t given up these types of throws, yet was not in position to help prevent it for reasons that haven’t been made clear.

The second big play the Chiefs gave up was equally ugly, and again contains another strange personnel choice.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14002548/defense-Henry-long-TD-68-yards.mp4?_=6

A great deal was made about linebacker Reggie Ragland’s lack of snaps against the Titans, which makes sense considering the style of football they play. However, it should be noted that on the biggest run play of the game, Ragland was on the field and overran what should be his assignment. This provided Henry with a huge lane to cut back through. Chris Jones was on the edge on this snap as well, but was unable to squeeze the lane shut after being forced to stay home and protect the bootleg.

The personnel complaint I’d make here is that Joey Ivie is on the field rather than Mike Pennel (who was inactive in favor of Ivie). Both are defensive tackles, but Pennel weighs an additional 30 pounds and is much more stout at the point of attack than Ivie, who is more of a penetrating tackle than a run-stopper. Ivie gets washed aside so far that he can’t help slow down Henry during the cutback, and it’s hard to believe Pennel wouldn’t have made a difference here.

With Ivie getting moved, Ragland over-pursuing and Jones forced to stay home, the play comes down to Thornhill trying to tackle Henry, who is a big runner and has a head of steam. That’s a tough spot to be in, but Thornhill doesn’t even slow down the big back and the race to the end zone begins. In all, this play consisted of at least one personnel failure that’s on Spagnuolo (Ivie in rather than Pennel), but execution failures from Ragland and Thornhill are what made it such a big play.

These two plays accounted for 32.3 percent of Tennessee’s offensive output Sunday, but it was enough to keep them in the game when combined with a defensive touchdown. This allowed for the Titans to continue to run the ball and gave them a puncher’s chance in the fourth quarter, which they took advantage of after a series of mistakes (as noted in detail earlier this week) by the Chiefs.

The Chiefs came into the game with what appeared to be a rather strange plan at times and definitely didn’t use the personnel that would have benefited them the most early, but some of the failures late simply came down to execution.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14005400/DL-just-gets-handled.mp4?_=7

Here, it appears Tyrann Mathieu guesses wrong as to where the run will go and laves a gap wide open to exploit. It doesn’t help that both Jones and Khalen Saunders don’t control the point of attack against individual blockers; though Saunders does get some push and Jones holds the edge just fine, neither is dominant. The Chiefs often appeared to be looking for the Titans to run to the strong side behind their tight ends, and Tennessee repeatedly took advantage of that assumption.

It should also be noted that despite the defense giving up a few huge plays, they made a crucial stop in the fourth quarter, giving the Chiefs the ball back on Tennessee’s 28-yard-line with 1:48 remaining in the game and the Chiefs leading by five points. That should have been enough to win the game, just like holding the Titans to a single touchdown in the first half should have been enough to put the game out of reach of a ground-and-pound strategy.

Unfortunately, it wasn’t. The offense couldn’t hold up its end of the bargain and went 3-and-out. Then special teams, on a particularly bad day for them, botched the field goal that should have put the Chiefs up eight points and led to a kickoff that would pin the Titans back in their territory. Instead, Tennessee got the ball on their own 39-yard-line down five points with newfound hope.

All of this is a long road to a short thought: The defense did struggle at times Sunday and allowed an inexcusable final go-ahead drive by Tennessee, but it did do enough in key moments for the game to be won and wasn’t quite the disaster it appeared on the surface.

Spagnuolo, the good and bad

The Chiefs’ defensive coordinator has done some good things this season, including dialing up pressure on opposing quarterbacks through various stunts and twists.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14010423/defense-twist.stunt-Ogbah-sack.mp4?_=8

Here, Spagnuolo has both Tanoh Kpassagnon and Jones serve as distractions for the right side of the line by crashing outside. Emmanuel Ogbah loops inside and the Chiefs collect a quick sack. The timing on these movements has improved significantly since the season began, and should only continue to do so despite Ogbah’s unfortunate injury Sunday.

However, the defense has also made mistakes that are unspeakably brutal. Some of the odd personnel choices are laid out above, but once again on Sunday, the defense couldn’t even get all 11 men on the field on a crucial snap.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holy crap they did it again. <br><br>I have no words. <a href="https://t.co/TqIpsPVo5i">https://t.co/TqIpsPVo5i</a> <a href="https://t.co/zWWjSFHI0V">pic.twitter.com/zWWjSFHI0V</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1194447238698864640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Fans who attended the game live replied to this tweet indicating that it appeared Frank Clark was supposed to be the 11th defender here but got on the field late and would have been offsides, so he stayed on the sideline. This provided a wide open B gap for Henry to waltz through on the right side of the defense.

This is the second time the Chiefs have given up a touchdown with 10 men on the field. That sort of thing, along with missed assignments in run fits, must go away if Spagnuolo’s defense is going to find consistency. While the scheme has been solid, the details have been lacking. Spagnuolo’s habit of rotating defensive linemen could make it tough for players to always know when it’s their time, but as the coordinator, Spagnuolo must lock down those simple mistakes.

Wisniewski plays well

Stefan Wisniewski was forced into action due to a rash of injuries along the offensive line Sunday, and the veteran lineman held up extremely well. I charted every snap for pass-block and run-blocking wins/losses/neutral snaps, as well as pressures/hits/sacks allowed.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14011455/Chiefs21.png

Wisniewski lost only two snaps Sunday and played a game that could be described as elite. He caught the eye of Pro Football Focus for his efforts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After losing Martinas Rankin, the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> needed help from the bench and they got it.<br><br>Stefen Wisniewski<br>• 42 snaps, all at left guard<br>• 87.6 Pass Block grade, 2nd highest Pass Block grade of Week 10 among all offensive linemen (Colts LG Quenton Nelson - 89.6)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1194320778281574401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Wisniewski doesn’t have the athleticism he used to possess, but he has a solid understanding of where he needs to be along the line in pass protection and wasn’t thrown off by blitzes or movement up front. He also showed excellent hand placement and a solid base in one-on-one matchups.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14011802/Wis-defenders-cant-disengage-well.mp4?_=9

This is a fast throw, but Wisniewski’s effort is demonstrative of what he did throughout the day. He has a good initial punch and almost always lands it inside the pads of his opponent. Once there, he latches on and rushers aren’t able to disengage from him. His feet aren’t fast, but his technique is sound and he generally doesn’t allow defenders to rush by or move him backwards.

Wisniewski is active along the line, staying busy when he doesn’t have a man to block, but he doesn’t travel very far. He’s aggressive and understands where to move defenders in order to limit their pass rush, and he helps finish blocks.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14012041/Wis-good-hands-inside-pad-level-helps-finish.mp4?_=10

Here, Wisniewski shows that strong initial punch and excellent hand placement. He’s able to shove the pass rusher into center Austin Reiter and rock him off balance. After that, he keeps the pressure on the block and helps Reiter throw the defender to the ground.

As a run blocker, Wisniewski shows some pop at the point of attack. He’s not particularly athletic, but he knows where he must be in space and how to engage defenders. He’s also very sound walling off would-be tacklers and altering his leverage according to where the play goes.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14012343/Wis-movement-understands-angles.mp4?_=11

Note that Wisniewski doesn’t just lay a hit on the defender, but rotates around him to ensure that he can’t make a play on the running back as the play develops. That sort of subtlety helps account for the fact that Wisniewski doesn’t move with the speed of the rest of the Chiefs’ guards.

Wisniewski’s lateral movement appears somewhat limited, and that can be concerning at times.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14012609/Wis-lateral-agility-not-great.mp4?_=12

Opposing teams are going to be looking at weaknesses to exploit in the veteran in future weeks if he continues to play, and that inability to always stay in front of quicker defenders could be problematic. But Wisniewski’s overall performance Sunday was impressive. He did a better job as a pass blocker than Andrew Wylie has all year, and if Laurent Duvernay-Tardif is able to return at right guard in the future, Andy Reid ought to consider leaving Wisniewski in for that purpose.

Drops ruined what could have been an even more explosive day

Both Watkins and Hill had crucial drops Sunday. It wasn’t simply the yardage lost that was so harmful, rather the timing of those drops.

Hill had an easy drop with 3:30 left in the fourth quarter that was one of the most impactful plays of the game despite looking relatively harmless.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14013105/drop-Hill-drop-2nd-and-8-in-4th-Q.mp4?_=13

While the drop cost the Chiefs only a few yards, the incomplete pass stopped the clock with 3:24 remaining. Had Hill held on to the ball, another 45 seconds would have run off the clock or the Titans would have needed to use their first timeout earlier than they did. Either of those scenarios changes the complexion of the game substantially. Hill dropped the next throw, too, though it was a tough catch in the end zone against good coverage. If either of those are made, it changes the outcome of the game.

Watkins had a pair of crucial drops as well. The first occurred in the second quarter and was the more egregious of the two.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/11/14013609/drop-Watkins-3rd-and-10-drop.mp4?_=14

This came on 3rd-and-10 as the Chiefs attempted to extend their 10-0 lead. Mahomes buys time by backpedaling and sees Watkins come open across the middle of the field. The throw is late, but delivered well before the defender can arrive. Watkins doesn’t seem to realize the ball is about to be thrown and looks away from Mahomes briefly to eye a defender, and because of that, he gets his hands up late on a throw that is a bit high. Despite less-than-ideal placement, this is a catch an NFL receiver should make.

Had Watkins fallen down the moment he caught the ball, the Chiefs would be facing 1st-and-10 on the 36-yard-line, within field-goal range and threatening to score. Instead, they were forced to punt, and due to a bad kick, the Titans got the ball on their own 27-yard-line. The very next play, Tannehill went deep for a big gain and the Titans were right back in it instead of being buried. Watkins had a second drop down the right sideline later in the game that would have put the Chiefs inside the red zone on a possession they had to settle for a field goal. While it was well-defended, the ball was perfectly placed and Watkins had time to control it before the cornerback brought his hands down.

While the defense and special teams were bigger problems as a whole, the offense will need to tighten up its self-inflicted wounds if it wants to reach its potential. There’s not a defense on earth that can contain them when they aren’t shooting themselves in the foot, but they’ve done enough to stop themselves in crucial moments. Like the other aspects of the game that led to a loss Sunday, this can be fixed. But also like the other aspects of the game that led to a loss, it will need to happen sooner rather than later if the Chiefs want to ensure they don’t waste what was expected to be a special season.

By Seth Keysor

Only thing missing from the article was this. Will never tire of watching this. (Hit play button & then link to YouTube. Thanks NFL.) :) Enjoy...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DE5DtEuuV2Y" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Interesting!

MahiMike
11-14-2019, 08:56 PM
We're going to get picks for Watkins and Jones and go get some talent on defense.

DJ's left nut
11-14-2019, 09:04 PM
You could at least post a link to the original article if you are going to C&P paid content.

No shit.

Any time you pimp The Athletic, half the board says "I'm not paying for that shit..." but you bet your ass this is better than anything you'll get at the star.

If you're going to blatantly rip off an article at least post where it came from.

Bush league.

Marcellus
11-14-2019, 09:06 PM
No shit.

Any time you pimp The Athletic, half the board says "I'm not paying for that shit..." but you bet your ass this is better than anything you'll get at the star.

If you're going to blatantly rip off an article at least post where it came from.

Bush league.

I doubt there is a better sports news article website than the Athletic, I mean I have no idea how that could be possible.

eDave
11-14-2019, 09:09 PM
No shit.

Any time you pimp The Athletic, half the board says "I'm not paying for that shit..." but you bet your ass this is better than anything you'll get at the star.

If you're going to blatantly rip off an article at least post where it came from.

Bush league.

And wrap it up.

scroll
scroll
scroll
scroll
scrollscrollscroll

Tribal Warfare
11-14-2019, 09:13 PM
Did Andy or Spags give a reason why Pennel was inactive?

DJ's left nut
11-14-2019, 09:14 PM
I doubt there is a better sports news article website than the Athletic, I mean I have no idea how that could be possible.

Its amazing. Precisely because people are willing to pay for the content so they can attract quality writers.

Why anyone thinks it's cool to just straight up rip that article is beyond me. This isnt anything new from Keysor - he literally does it every week.

So to just blatantly bypass the paywall to post regular content is weak, especially if you wont even plug the author and the site in the progress.

DJ's left nut
11-14-2019, 09:17 PM
https://theathletic.com/1377169/2019/11/14/chiefs-film-review-mahomes-excellence-cam-ervings-struggles-thoughts-on-defense/?amp#click=https://t.co/1AClspZyAO

There's the link.

Subscribe to the athletic. It's cheap and its outstanding. They broke the Astros scandal a couple of days ago. They have a TON of quality content and a growing number of good podcasts as well.

MAHOMO 4 LIFE!
11-14-2019, 09:17 PM
We're going to get picks for Watkins and Jones and go get some talent on defense.

Jones will get extended and no on is trading for Watkins with his contract. He will be cut

RetiredSeniorChief
11-14-2019, 09:43 PM
How many of the "Mahomes Years" will this inept franchise waste? Will I live long enough to see the Chiefs win a SB?

GloryDayz
11-14-2019, 09:52 PM
How many of the "Mahomes Years" will this inept franchise waste? Will I live long enough to see the Chiefs win a SB?

As long as Andy plagues our franchise; all of them.

T-post Tom
11-14-2019, 09:59 PM
You could at least post a link to the original article if you are going to C&P paid content.

Duly noted. Didn't want to create the impression that I was advertising for a paid site.

T-post Tom
11-14-2019, 10:06 PM
No shit.

Any time you pimp The Athletic, half the board says "I'm not paying for that shit..." but you bet your ass this is better than anything you'll get at the star.

If you're going to blatantly rip off an article at least post where it came from.

Bush league.

Really? I spent the time to cut, paste and embed all that and all you can do is complain? STFU

CasselGotPeedOn
11-14-2019, 10:26 PM
Big numbers doesn't win games. Not saying he is, certainly his sample size is much smaller, but he's looking more like Stafford then Brady. He's got to start winning these games late. Everyone knows the defense sucks and special teams are shaky at best. It's all on him, if he's one the best he can do it. Right now jury out.

What an atrocious take. Holy fucking shit.

Chiefspants
11-14-2019, 10:30 PM
if sammy helps us win a SB i don't care about any of this shit

I have every expectation he will show up as a #1 receiver come playoff time.

Chiefshrink
11-14-2019, 10:59 PM
With Fisher, Wiz, Wiley, LDT, and Schwartz we could have a hell of an OL finally.

Nothing personal here but..ROFL

rtmike
11-15-2019, 06:25 AM
You are really really good at wearing blinders.

Regardless Watkins is gone next year so quite your bitching.

But if he goes off in the AFCCG and we don't have an offsides keep us from the SB I don't want to hear from you celebrating about it.

Shirley, you jest?
Bfd if he wants to bitch about him plus throw roses, smh. Lol.

DJ's left nut
11-15-2019, 08:41 AM
Really? I spent the time to cut, paste and embed all that and all you can do is complain? STFU

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

A dude spent the time to actually create that before you promptly ripped it off without attribution and posted paid content.

And you're pissing and moaning that someone isn't fawning over you for spending time to cut and paste it.

Awwww - poor little you.

I'm guessing the irony of this is completely lost on you.

BigRedChief
11-15-2019, 08:50 AM
You could at least post a link to the original article if you are going to C&P paid content.

No shit.

Any time you pimp The Athletic, half the board says "I'm not paying for that shit..." but you bet your ass this is better than anything you'll get at the star.

If you're going to blatantly rip off an article at least post where it came from.

Bush league.

I doubt there is a better sports news article website than the Athletic, I mean I have no idea how that could be possible.

https://theathletic.com/1377169/2019/11/14/chiefs-film-review-mahomes-excellence-cam-ervings-struggles-thoughts-on-defense/?amp#click=https://t.co/1AClspZyAO

There's the link.

Subscribe to the athletic. It's cheap and its outstanding. They broke the Astros scandal a couple of days ago. They have a TON of quality content and a growing number of good podcasts as well.The Athletic is the best sports website that has ever existed. Well worth the $2 bucks a month. :thumb:

-King-
11-15-2019, 08:57 AM
How many of the "Mahomes Years" will this inept franchise waste? Will I live long enough to see the Chiefs win a SB?

I've never seen a fanbase become spoiled so fast. We're 1.5 years into the Mahomes era and 1 penalty away from the Superbowl last year and people are acting like we've already wasted half his career.

Molitoth
11-15-2019, 09:05 AM
Big numbers doesn't win games. Not saying he is, certainly his sample size is much smaller, but he's looking more like Stafford then Brady. He's got to start winning these games late. Everyone knows the defense sucks and special teams are shaky at best. It's all on him, if he's one the best he can do it. Right now jury out.

Did you read the article? Prob not.

T-post Tom
11-15-2019, 11:07 AM
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

A dude spent the time to actually create that before you promptly ripped it off without attribution and posted paid content. And you're pissing and moaning that someone isn't fawning over you for spending time to cut and paste it.

You shouldn't talk shite if you don't know the reasoning or backstory. I've been posting here for a long time and that's the first time I've posted from a paid site. Previously it was always a free site and I put a link. Didn't put the link this time because I didn't want to appear to be spamming for a paid site. After Deface mentioned it, I added the link to the OP. (I originally did include the author's name.) End of story. Well, not really because you have made multiple posts about it. Whiteknighting for a paid site? (A site that I pay for.) Talk about fawning for attention. What a sad, pathetic life you must live.

Hammock Parties
11-15-2019, 11:09 AM
I've never seen a fanbase become spoiled so fast. We're 1.5 years into the Mahomes era and 1 penalty away from the Superbowl last year and people are acting like we've already wasted half his career.

Same.

We got so close last year we just expected it to be handed to us this year.

A little adversity and we want to fire the HC. LMAO

DJ's left nut
11-15-2019, 11:35 AM
You shouldn't talk shite if you don't know the reasoning or backstory. I've been posting here for a long time and that's the first time I've posted from a paid site. Previously it was always a free site and I put a link. Didn't put the link this time because I didn't want to appear to be spamming for a paid site. After Deface mentioned it, I added the link to the OP. (I originally did include the author's name.) End of story. Well, not really because you have made multiple posts about it. Whiteknighting for a paid site? (A site that I pay for.) Talk about fawning for attention. What a sad, pathetic life you must live.

Asking people to support the only decent independent sports-writing venture to be found ANYWHERE right now /= "whiteknighting a paid site".

If you want places like The Athletic to succeed and not devolve into shitshows begging for clicks like The Star or indistinguishable mediocrity like everything under SB Nation's banner, then people need to actually pay for their content.

Or you end up with aggregator articles, intrusive banner adds and clickbait garbage. If people want to actually get decent content, they can't just expect people do to it for funsies.

But please - keep getting indignant because I didn't swoon over the time and effort you put into copying and pasting someone else's work. It just gives me a chuckle when I see that put into print - I mean really. "I SPENT 6 MINUTES RIPPING THAT OFF! YOU BE NICE TO ME!!!"

{stamps foot}

You do you, boo....

Marcellus
11-15-2019, 11:40 AM
Nothing personal here but..ROFL

Should have been Rieter, but yea.

KCTitus
11-15-2019, 11:49 AM
I've never seen a fanbase become spoiled so fast. We're 1.5 years into the Mahomes era and 1 penalty away from the Superbowl last year and people are acting like we've already wasted half his career.

Spoiled? Spoiled? Maybe there are some that have become spoiled had they started following the club since 2017. I'm not spoiled...I'm tired.

I've watched this franchise manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so many times, I'm tired of watching it.

The 80's were a frigging clown show...basically KC played the role of the Cleveland Browns in the 80's.

The 90's was all defense and ST and no offense. KC made the playoffs through smoke and mirrors. going back and watching the games KC pulled off, they were non competitive but kept it close and got a lucky punt return or something late to manage to pull off the winning score. Once in the playoffs, our HC shit his pants and failed regularly.

Going into the 00's and KC is all offense and no defense and by the time they backed into the playoffs, every team knew how to defeat KC. Even at 13-3 and going into the no punt playoff game, everyone knew this team was going to fail.

Fast forward through the Pioli/Herm Era's where KC once again went into the wilderness, one thing happened, the league became QB centric and we all learned that KC needed a QB and it was all too clear as Reid built the team but had Captain Checkdown at QB and it was clear this team would go nowhere.

KC FINALLY gets a QB and he's the real deal and yet, they still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Included in all of this are sketchy calls that reverse TD's or put KC in a multiple score hole. And all of the brilliant play of Mahomes is not enough to overcome these things.

So yeah, if KC cannot succeed with the best QB in the league, what's the frigging point of watching or spending time watching this club anymore. This team has tried every configuration, yet they still get the shit end of the stick.

I really dont enjoy watching much anymore. Frankly, I skipped the Sunday Night GB game because they never win in primetime and I plan to skip Monday night's game...I'm not staying up until midnight and losing sleep just to watch them lose.

Am I spoiled? Heh...I guess, I've been fed a shit sandwich the better part of 3 decades and I'm tired of it. I want the team to succeed, but I'm starting to wonder if even with Mahomes this team will ever get to the SB.

T-post Tom
11-15-2019, 11:54 AM
Asking people to support the only decent independent sports-writing venture to be found ANYWHERE right now /= "whiteknighting a paid site".

If you want places like The Athletic to succeed and not devolve into shitshows begging for clicks like The Star or indistinguishable mediocrity like everything under SB Nation's banner, then people need to actually pay for their content.

Or you end up with aggregator articles, intrusive banner adds and clickbait garbage. If people want to actually get decent content, they can't just expect people do to it for funsies.

But please - keep getting indignant because I didn't swoon over the time and effort you put into copying and pasting someone else's work. It just gives me a chuckle when I see that put into print - I mean really. "I SPENT 6 MINUTES RIPPING THAT OFF! YOU BE NICE TO ME!!!"

{stamps foot}

You do you, boo....

More lectures and Whiteknighting over a link. I pay for the site. Mr. Keyboard Warrior triggered over a link. Seriously, what a gripping life you must lead. :huh: The Athletic is worth $300M and expected to grow to a $1,000,000,000+ (Billion with a "B") company in 5 years. I doubt that my sharing one great article on the Chiefs with my CP brethren is going to damage their bottom line. Seriously dude, get a life.

-King-
11-15-2019, 12:42 PM
Spoiled? Spoiled? Maybe there are some that have become spoiled had they started following the club since 2017. I'm not spoiled...I'm tired.

I've watched this franchise manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so many times, I'm tired of watching it.

The 80's were a frigging clown show...basically KC played the role of the Cleveland Browns in the 80's.

The 90's was all defense and ST and no offense. KC made the playoffs through smoke and mirrors. going back and watching the games KC pulled off, they were non competitive but kept it close and got a lucky punt return or something late to manage to pull off the winning score. Once in the playoffs, our HC shit his pants and failed regularly.

Going into the 00's and KC is all offense and no defense and by the time they backed into the playoffs, every team knew how to defeat KC. Even at 13-3 and going into the no punt playoff game, everyone knew this team was going to fail.

Fast forward through the Pioli/Herm Era's where KC once again went into the wilderness, one thing happened, the league became QB centric and we all learned that KC needed a QB and it was all too clear as Reid built the team but had Captain Checkdown at QB and it was clear this team would go nowhere.

KC FINALLY gets a QB and he's the real deal and yet, they still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Included in all of this are sketchy calls that reverse TD's or put KC in a multiple score hole. And all of the brilliant play of Mahomes is not enough to overcome these things.

So yeah, if KC cannot succeed with the best QB in the league, what's the frigging point of watching or spending time watching this club anymore. This team has tried every configuration, yet they still get the shit end of the stick.

I really dont enjoy watching much anymore. Frankly, I skipped the Sunday Night GB game because they never win in primetime and I plan to skip Monday night's game...I'm not staying up until midnight and losing sleep just to watch them lose.

Am I spoiled? Heh...I guess, I've been fed a shit sandwich the better part of 3 decades and I'm tired of it. I want the team to succeed, but I'm starting to wonder if even with Mahomes this team will ever get to the SB.

They got to the AFCCG in year one of Mahomes. Year two is barely halfway over. You guys are so over the top ridiculous.

Megatron96
11-15-2019, 01:17 PM
They got to the AFCCG in year one of Mahomes. Year two is barely halfway over. You guys are so over the top ridiculous.

Agreed. I've been a Chiefs fan since the early '80s, so I've seen my fair share of the Chiefs losing in the playoffs. But last year changed everything for me. For the first time since Montana was QB, I have real hope for a championship. But I never thought for a second that the Chiefs would get to and almost win the AFCCG in Mahomes' first year as QB. That's just ridiculous. It doesn't happen in the NFL.

But it did, and now we have fans crying every day about every little thing that goes wrong, every loss, as if the league should just roll over or kneel and pay homage to the Chiefs before every game. And when they don't, it's everyone's fault from the front office to the long-snapper; everyone except Mahomes, but by God we deserve to have the easiest season in NFL history because Mahomes.

Just because Mahomes makes the game look like Madden, doesn't mean it's going to work out that way, for Pete's sake.

It's Mahomes second year, barely what, 30 games into his career, and we're going to piss and moan because he hasn't won 2 SBs and 5 MVPs, thrown for 10,000 in a season, etc.?

How about we give these guys a real chance. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY early to be crucifying people every week.

Marcellus
11-15-2019, 01:30 PM
They got to the AFCCG in year one of Mahomes. Year two is barely halfway over. You guys are so over the top ridiculous.

No way dude, we are 25 games into Mahomes career, we should have 2 Lombardi's by now.

arrwheader
11-15-2019, 01:44 PM
The Athletic is the best sports website that has ever existed. Well worth the $2 bucks a month. :thumb:5 dollars

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

DaFace
11-15-2019, 02:19 PM
They got to the AFCCG in year one of Mahomes. Year two is barely halfway over. You guys are so over the top ridiculous.

It's honestly starting to wear me down a bit. I get that people are hard up for a Super Bowl, but yeesh...it's like people think that Super Bowls are only won by teams that go 19-0 and never have any team within 20 points of them in a game.

Spott
11-15-2019, 02:28 PM
I've never seen a fanbase become spoiled so fast. We're 1.5 years into the Mahomes era and 1 penalty away from the Superbowl last year and people are acting like we've already wasted half his career.

Spoiled? We haven’t been to a Super Bowl in 50 years. In that time the Broncos have been in 8, the Raiders have been in 4 and even the Chargers made it once so it’s pretty hard to be spoiled when the large majority of us have done nothing but watch other teams play for championships every year.

HC_Chief
11-15-2019, 02:39 PM
PM has immense talent, both physically and mentally. His understanding & mastery of the game is <i>already</i> legendary. The rest of the team, including many of the coaches however, not so much.

Piss-poor personnel decisions, lack of situational awareness, not knowing when to get on/off field, missed assignments, screwing up plays due to lack of concentration... that pretty much sums it up. Sounds like an Andy Reid team. Philly fans warned us.

Marcellus
11-15-2019, 02:41 PM
5 dollars

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Not if you got in at the right time.

Chargem
11-15-2019, 03:31 PM
I got in for like $2 per month and I think its quality content, love the Chiefs articles but general sports stuff is all good.

T-post Tom
11-15-2019, 03:35 PM
I got in for like $2 per month and I think its quality content, love the Chiefs articles but general sports stuff is all good.

That is a good deal. :thumb:

Chargem
11-15-2019, 04:25 PM
The more I think about the use of Lucas, and sitting Pennel to have Ivie active, it makes me worry that the Chiefs thought this would be an easy game so used it to try and do some experimenting...

chiefzilla1501
11-15-2019, 04:42 PM
A few things pop at me about mahomes.

Don't hate, but mahomes is not 100%. As dominant as he's been its scary to think of how many throws he normally makes that just haven't been accurate. Early in the season it was his ankle. Now, it might be timing and rust.

Mahomes has not moved around much. At first I thought it was injury and mobility. I'm beginning to think hes improved to the point where he just doesn't need to. Which I'm cool with. But I also wonder if we've lost a valuable weapon. We don't do the scramble drill nearly as much and I think that's a good thing, but it also makes me wonder if we're bolstering a really powerful weapon. Would probably explain Demarcus Robinson becoming less and less of a factor these days.

KCTitus
11-15-2019, 05:13 PM
They got to the AFCCG in year one of Mahomes. Year two is barely halfway over. You guys are so over the top ridiculous.

I'm 'over the top' because I'm tired of watching the same script Ive watched over 30 years...

In case you missed it, KC had a 99.6% chance of winning their last game before they ran the play on 3rd and 2 from Tenn's 24. They ****ING lost the game.

It takes a whole lot of combined **** up to do that...this article even states that two goal line plays KC played with 10 men. WTF?

Sure, shit the bed in early September, but they're more than halfway through this season and doing this stuff? Cmon man...this loss was bad. Without Mahomes play, this team would have pulled one of those giant boners we're all familiar with over the last few years. It's a miracle they were that close in the end.