Official discussion thread on Andy’s late game conservative play calling

[BigRedChief]

It’s a continuing thing from Philly. Why can’t he learn or change?

I and the Chief fans I was with were so pissed off at Andy being conservative again at the end of the game. 2 and 6. You get the 1st down. That’s it, game over. I would be trusting Mahomes to get 6 yards in two tries over trusting our defense.

Almost burned us again just last week. Came close to blowing a another game with conservative play calling.

Come on Andy, your a HOF coach but it’s time to rethink this late game conservative strategy. Trust in Mahomes to get it done.

[Hammock Parties]

Only problem is OL and execution, not Andy

Mahomes overthrew Shady, Mahomes had one ball tipped, Andy called a regular-ass pass play on another snap, receiver was covered, OL gave up the sack.

You are conveniently ignoring the plays that were drawn up on those two drives that DID get first downs.

At some point you have to credit the Chargers pass rush and our own OL's inability to block forcing Andy to call short passes or hand the ball off trying to burn clock and protect the ball.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

It’s a continuing thing from Philly. Why can’t he learn or change?

I and the Chief fans I was with were so pissed off at Andy being conservative again at the end of the game. 2 and 6. You get the 1st down. That’s it, game over. I would be trusting Mahomes to get 6 yards in two tries over trusting our defense.

Almost burned us again just last week. Came close to blowing a another game with conservative play calling.

Come on Andy, your a HOF coach but it’s time to rethink this late game conservative strategy. Trust in Mahomes to get it done.

What would you have called differently?

[tooge]

Only problem is OL and execution, not Andy

Mahomes overthrew Shady, Mahomes had one ball tipped, Andy called a regular-ass pass play on another snap, receiver was covered, OL gave up the sack.

You are conveniently ignoring the plays that were drawn up on those two drives that DID get first downs.

At some point you have to credit the Chargers pass rush and our own OL's inability to block forcing Andy to call short passes or hand the ball off trying to burn clock and protect the ball.

This

[mnchiefsguy]

Only problem is OL and execution, not Andy

Mahomes overthrew Shady, Mahomes had one ball tipped, Andy called a regular-ass pass play on another snap, receiver was covered, OL gave up the sack.

You are conveniently ignoring the plays that were drawn up on those two drives that DID get first downs.

At some point you have to credit the Chargers pass rush and our own OL's inability to block forcing Andy to call short passes or hand the ball off trying to burn clock and protect the ball.

Gotta agree with this. Pat hits either one of those passes and we are not having this conversation.

While it is disappointing that the offense failed to execute....you have to tip your hat to the defense....stopped Phyllis and company on 4 straight drives to end the game and they held the lead.

[cdcox]

It amazes me people still think a few seconds off the clock are better than TDs. If we get one first down or we get in FG range a strange disease takes over Andy Reid's mind where no pass play on first or second down can cross the line of scrimmage. NFL-think is the dream of every NFL defensive coordinator. Bill Belichick certainly doesn't suffer from this disease and has made a career off of coaches that do.

[BigRedChief]

What would you have called differently?
Andy probably has 100 plays that’s designed to get 6+ yards. Call a couple of them.

[BryanBusby]

Andy probably has 100 plays that’s designed to get 6+ yards. Call a couple of them.
He tried some of those and Pat just couldn't connect.

[cdcox]

Andy probably has 100 plays that’s designed to get 6+ yards. Call a couple of them.

No doubt.

Hire an extra guy to script the first x plays in the game. Andy needs to script 15 plays to call when the game is in a high leverage situation late in the game. He is brilliant. Trust the process when it matters. Don't read that GD menu; nothing good comes from it.

[BigRedChief]

Only problem is OL and execution, not Andy

Mahomes overthrew Shady, Mahomes had one ball tipped, Andy called a regular-ass pass play on another snap, receiver was covered, OL gave up the sack.

You are conveniently ignoring the plays that were drawn up on those two drives that DID get first downs.

At some point you have to credit the Chargers pass rush and our own OL's inability to block forcing Andy to call short passes or hand the ball off trying to burn clock and protect the ball.and your ignoring years of the same pattern. 20 years of history.

It wasn’t just that one series in the opening post. His last 3 offensive series calls were conservative. We lost a game last week we had won because of conservative play calling. He promised to do a better job of coaching. We lost an exact game like this against the Chargers in Arrowhead last year. Same scenerio. Just keeps happening.

I’m only bashing this part of Andy’s coaching game. I think he’s the 2nd best coach in the NFL. I’m damn glad he’s our coach. I’ll also be forever grateful for the coaching up of Mahones too.

[cdcox]

He tried some of those and Pat just couldn't connect.

If swing/screen passes are "those" Alex Smith is good enough.

[Ron Swanson]

Only problem is OL and execution, not Andy

Mahomes overthrew Shady, Mahomes had one ball tipped, Andy called a regular-ass pass play on another snap, receiver was covered, OL gave up the sack.

You are conveniently ignoring the plays that were drawn up on those two drives that DID get first downs.

At some point you have to credit the Chargers pass rush and our own OL's inability to block forcing Andy to call short passes or hand the ball off trying to burn clock and protect the ball.

Maybe call a play where the throw goes past the line of scrimmage, or gasp, past the 1st down marker.

[BryanBusby]

If swing/screen passes are "those" Alex Smith is good enough.
You guys are fucking ridiculous LMAO

[Hammock Parties]

It wasn’t just that one series in the opening post. His last 3 offensive series calls were conservative.

This isn't true.

Otherwise, Mahomes would not have dropped back to pass, found no one open, and run for first downs because Andy's receivers cleared out the underneath.

Get a clue.

[cdcox]

I’m only bashing this part of Andy’s coaching game. I think he’s the 2nd best coach in the NFL. I’m damn glad he’s our coach.

It is infuriating that he can be so brilliant at certain times and so mud headed at others. He needs a wisperer.

[comochiefsfan]

Is it too controversial to say that both Andy and Mahomes were awful in the 4th quarter tonight? Because they were.

The difference is that I don’t expect that to be the norm for Pat. But it has been the norm for 20 years for Reid, and I don’t anticipate that changing anytime soon.

[-King-]

Andy probably has 100 plays that’s designed to get 6+ yards. Call a couple of them.

And screens are some of those plays.

[BryanBusby]

Is it too controversial to say that both Andy and Mahomes were awful in the 4th quarter tonight? Because they were.

The difference is that I don’t expect that to be the norm for Pat. But it has been the norm for 20 years for Reid, and I don’t anticipate that changing anytime soon.
You would just be wrong.

[Ron Swanson]

And screens are some of those plays.

And they are designed to catch a team being aggressive, which they weren't after multiple screen/dump passes.

[Hammock Parties]

And they are designed to catch a team being aggressive, which they weren't after multiple screen/dump passes.

Both of those flat passes were going to work if Mahomes had thrown the ball properly.

All 22 will vindicate Andy on this further.

[BigRedChief]

This isn't true.

Otherwise, Mahomes would not have dropped back to pass, found no one open, and run for first downs because Andy's receivers cleared out the underneath.

Get a clue.my opinion is not an isolated one in some far corner of Chiefs nation. The vast majority of Chief fans think Reid’s too conservative with a lead late in games.

Same opinion in Philly all those years.

And it’s not isolated to just fans either. Those who study the game, know the X’s And O’s also agree its Andy’s weakest part of his coaching game.

[Hammock Parties]

Andy should be given a shitload of credit tonight. The team had to adapt after the turf went to hell and Tyreek left the game.

Andy changed the entire offensive gameplan. For fuck's sake, we ran POWER O inside the 10 with two tight ends. And it WORKED.

This is what you dumbasses have been screaming about all year.

"Andy just wants to throw deep every play, hurr durr."

Well, he didn't, after that terrible INT by Mahomes. He pulled out some of his best coaching of the year. And it worked to perfection, and pushed the Chargers into desperation mode, away from their running game.

And if the offensive line had blocked a tiny bit better at the end, and Mahomes had not fucked up, we're not having these stupid threads.

Andy is a fucking genius and you guys can't enjoy a win. Pathetic.

[cdcox]

This isn't true.

Otherwise, Mahomes would not have dropped back to pass, found no one open, and run for first downs because Andy's receivers cleared out the underneath.

Get a clue.

1) At least these plays allowed MVP to improvise. Designed swing/screen puts it all on an average back, instead of MVP.
2) Patrick improvising = good. Give him 3 chances as opposed to 1 in a desperate situation. The kid is a pure competitor. He finds a way.

[Ron Swanson]

Both of those flat passes were going to work if Mahomes had thrown the ball properly.

All 22 will vindicate Andy on this further.

How about just running a pass play designed for Kelce over the middle.

[Hammock Parties]

1) At least these plays allowed MVP to improvise. Designed swing/screen puts it all on an average back, instead of MVP.

2) Patrick improvising = good. Give him 3 chances as opposed to 1 in a desperate situation. The kid is a pure competitor. He finds a way.

Those weren't designed swing passes. The back was open because of the route combo. A different defense, with a defender in the flat, he's not open.

Mahomes has to execute the throw. Not on Andy.

How about just running a pass play designed for Kelce over the middle.

You do realize they called a pass play to Kelce on the last offensive snap...no?

You can't go to that well every time.

I get bitching about Andy last week. I was.

This wasn't a repeat. This was poor execution by the OL and Mahomes.

[BigRedChief]

Andy is a ****ing genius and you guys can't enjoy a win. Pathetic.I stated that Andy’s the 2nd best Coach in the NFL. That I’m damn glad he’s my teams coach.

Posting on here for 16 years. I think most would agree that I’m more in the small “homer” part of this board than the fire everyone crowd.

[BryanBusby]

my opinion is not an isolated one in some far corner of Chiefs nation. The vast majority of Chief fans think Reid’s too conservative with a lead late in games.

Same opinion in Philly all those years.

And it’s not isolated to just fans either. Those who study the game, know the X’s And O’s also agree its Andy’s weakest part of his coaching game.
The problem with that (and I'm not saying that the saying is wrong) is that it's used as an excuse so much that it's a lazy go to response instead of actually wondering if that were the case.

A lot of times, yes it is. Tonight was one of those instances where he called an alright game. People want to rip the conservative nature, but sometimes it's not a bad idea.

It wasn't like Rivers was having an all star performance.

[BigRedChief]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Really need the KC media to start grilling Andy on his soft play calling in the 4th quarter. And do it at the presser. Wake up the old man.</p>&mdash; The OG Chiefs Kingdom (@1_ChiefsKingdom) <a href="https://twitter.com/1_ChiefsKingdom/status/1196652314355884032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid just doesn’t learn does he? Needed a first down to seal the game last week and he called a QB rollout. Same situation this week and he does the same thing. Wow.</p>&mdash; Mark Gunnels (@MarkAGunnels) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkAGunnels/status/1196645576537825280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[BryanBusby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Really need the KC media to start grilling Andy on his soft play calling in the 4th quarter. And do it at the presser. Wake up the old man.</p>&mdash; The OG Chiefs Kingdom (@1_ChiefsKingdom) <a href="https://twitter.com/1_ChiefsKingdom/status/1196652314355884032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Marty shares your opinion. He's never right.

I rest my case.

[BigRedChief]

Marty shares your opinion. He's never right.

I rest my case.ROFL

[FAX]

The way I saw it, the o-line was getting smoked all game long.

Honestly, the way the line was playing, I don't know what the hell you call in that situation.

FAX

[BigRedChief]

The way I saw it, the o-line was getting smoked all game long.

Honestly, the way the line was playing, I don't know what the hell you call in that situation.

FAXmy point was over his career and more germane, his career here in KC, not just tonight.

#2 on gblowfish top ten tonight


2. Seemed like Andy got conservative again in the fourth quarter; but at least this time they made the Bolts use up their time outs. Still, you give Phyllis the ball with 1:43 and no time outs, and he damn near pulled it off. And WTF is with our secondary on two point conversions? We gave up another one tonight to a wide open guy. I was afraid if Phyllis drove down for a TD at game end, they’d go for two and beat us like they did last year in Arrowhead. But luckily, Phyllis went full Phyllis and puked up Intercepto Quatro, and it was Buenos Noches!!

[JakeF]

He tried some of those and Pat just couldn't connect.
Once again, Andy Reid's QB just isn't good enough.




The best QB the Chiefs have every had just isn't good enough.




Andy goes all 'Alex Smith' when his QB isn't good enough.

[BigRedChief]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The fact that Reid goes to his most conservative plays when the offense needs to convert the most just shows how poorly he understands/uses probabilistic thinking</p>&mdash; ArrowheadAnalytics (@ChiefsAnalytics) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsAnalytics/status/1196644481019318272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[FringeNC]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The fact that Reid goes to his most conservative plays when the offense needs to convert the most just shows how poorly he understands/uses probabilistic thinking</p>&mdash; ArrowheadAnalytics (@ChiefsAnalytics) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsAnalytics/status/1196644481019318272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

It's hard to argue with that take.

[Marcellus]

If we had just thrown the ball not burned any time and had to punt people would bitch we didn't run the ball.

[Marcellus]

Once again, Andy Reid's QB just isn't good enough.




The best QB the Chiefs have every had just isn't good enough.




Andy goes all 'Alex Smith' when his QB isn't good enough.

So you didn't think Pat was off last night eh?

[Nzoner]

my point was over his career and more germane, his career here in KC, not just tonight.

#2 on gblowfish top ten tonight


2. Seemed like Andy got conservative again in the fourth quarter; but at least this time they made the Bolts use up their time outs. Still, you give Phyllis the ball with 1:43 and no time outs, and he damn near pulled it off. And WTF is with our secondary on two point conversions? We gave up another one tonight to a wide open guy. I was afraid if Phyllis drove down for a TD at game end, they’d go for two and beat us like they did last year in Arrowhead. But luckily, Phyllis went full Phyllis and puked up Intercepto Quatro, and it was Buenos Noches!!

MNF is one of the NFL's biggest bet games and KC was anywhere from a 3.5 to a 6.5 favorite.Take into consideration everything gblowfish covered above and try and make an argument that it didn't at least make for a fantastic finish no matter what side of the gambling pick bettors were on.Not to mention the total points were set at 52 to 52.5,think there weren't more than a few bettors hoping for OT?

Once again it doesn't prove anything but if some of you guys would follow these odds on a regular basis I'd think you'd at least :hmmm:

[lawrenceRaider]

Only problem is OL and execution, not Andy.



Only partially true. Andy tends to get real conservative at the end of games when he has any kind of lead. That's just who he's always been. Not a big issue really though.

The Chiefs OL is a real problem. Even with everyone healthy, it's a bottom 10 or so OL.

That's insulting for a QB like Mahomes. Chiefs owe it to Mahomes and to the Fans to protect Mahomes with the best OL the Chiefs can afford.

[Hammock Parties]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The fact that Reid goes to his most conservative plays when the offense needs to convert the most just shows how poorly he understands/uses probabilistic thinking</p>&mdash; ArrowheadAnalytics (@ChiefsAnalytics) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsAnalytics/status/1196644481019318272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

This is an ignorant take.

Play calling was conservative most of the game after they adjusted. They had to. No Tyreek, field fucked, OL dumpster fire.

Andy called fine plays and All 22 will vindicate.

[493rd]

He’s never changing he is what he is, so unless Clark fires him we’re stuck.

[bobbything]

The way I saw it, the o-line was getting smoked all game long.

Honestly, the way the line was playing, I don't know what the hell you call in that situation.

FAX
Yep, that is what I saw. Mahomes having about half a second to throw the ball. And when he did have a little bit of time, he appeared to get a little nervous—didn't really want to step up in the pocket. O-line played their worst game of the year by far against a 4 man front.

I thought Reid called a fine game. The Chargers were playing Cover 2/3 all night and getting pressure with 4 guys. That's a recipe for disaster on most occasions. Had the line blocked better, we win this easily. And if I'm going to criticize Reid for anything, it's for not inserting more help for the line.

Before the game started I read on here things like, "I hope Andy doesn't just chuck it long every time!" Then when the game starts and we are averaging like 2.1 YPC and we're running swing passes because Mahomes can't take a three step drop without pressure, everyone is blaming Reid for "conservative" play calling.

For all the credit Chiefs fans receive for being "knowledgeable," most of the people on here are morons.

[Hammock Parties]

He’s never changing he is what he is, so unless Clark fires him we’re stuck.

stuck with multiple consecutive AFC West titles

the first playoff win at Arrowhead in decades

the golden age of Chiefs football, just getting started

so fucking AWFUL

[SupDock]

If last night was in a vacuum, no big deal. This is a conversation after a lot of games, which indicates a trend

[O.city]

It's time to invest some resources in the interior of the OL and get some good players in there.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

There’s blame to go all around.

Execution wasn’t good late. I think this team desperately needs rest and healing. Hopefully they figure out how to attack things over the bye and come out strong.

[SupDock]

All of these things can be true, and perhaps last night wasn't on Andy, but the point still stands that he needs to look a little closer at closing out games

We also need to give Mahomes more time

Last night the altitude and state of the field was playing a huge role. Players were gassed. On the last drive players were struggling to get on the defensive side of the ball before the snap

[Warrick]

It's time to invest some resources in the interior of the OL and get some good players in there.

I'm good with this approach, he definitely needs more time to throw. When you see your QB backpedaling with no pocket time and time again, yet still making spectacular throws, you have to address the issue.

[Beef Supreme]

We need to draft some fatties.

[FloridaMan88]

A third string RB, Darrel Williams was basically the Chiefs' featured player on offense... running and on screen plays on 6 of the 9 downs during those last two drives (before the kneel down drive).

Darrel Williams played well last night, but an offense featuring Kelce, Watkins, Hardman, etc and of course the MVP at QB can't find a more creative/aggressive way to get yardage AND keep the clock moving in that situation?

[notorious]

It’s happened for 20 fucking years with multiple QBs. Stop citing last night to defend Reid.

[Jerm]

I just don't get running one option routes in these late game scenarios, makes zero sense...give Pat options.

Just classic Andy overthinking himself, Kelce was unstoppable the entire 2nd half...feed him the damn ball.

[KCUnited]

The entire offense looked shaky, especially in the 4th. I feel it's a combo of execution and mindset. Those last drives, it was like the coaches and players lost all confidence in the oline to be able to get the ball down the field so they just turtled up and held on.

[Marcellus]

It’s happened for 20 ****ing years with multiple QBs. Stop citing last night to defend Reid.

Are we really going to pretend Andy hasn't won way more games than he lost though? You guys act like he is Freddie Kitchens or something.

[FloridaMan88]

Are we really going to pretend Andy hasn't won way more games than he lost though?

Not in the postseason.

[The Franchise]

I honestly think the field had a lot to do with it.

[notorious]

Are we really going to pretend Andy hasn't won way more games than he lost though? You guys act like he is Freddie Kitchens or something.

I love Andy. Said it a million times. He has the ability to put clown shoes on the best.

It doesn’t cover his horrific warts. There is a reason he hasn’t won a title and history agrees he won’t with the Chiefs.

[DaFace]

Are we really going to pretend Andy hasn't won way more games than he lost though? You guys act like he is Freddie Kitchens or something.

My biggest issue with it is that it relies on our weakness (defense) rather than our strength (offense). Yes, you could argue that the field conditions played a role last night, and the OL certainly wasn't giving Patrick much time to work. But still - we're up by 15 in the 3rd quarter and we're already going into a shell. That seems...extreme. And he does it frequently.

[Warrick]

Andy needs to take a page from Dick Vermeil's strategic play calling and step on the gas, and leave your opponents in the dust.

[old_geezer]

My biggest issue with it is that it relies on our weakness (defense) rather than our strength (offense). Yes, you could argue that the field conditions played a role last night, and the OL certainly wasn't giving Patrick much time to work. But still - we're up by 15 in the 3rd quarter and we're already going into a shell. That seems...extreme. And he does it frequently.

This is pretty much me. I lost track of the times I thought (or blurted out loud) to myself last night during the 4th quarter; "Damn, the offense is playing scared. Attack, dammit, attack!".

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Some people watched a different game than me last night... We got up by 14 by exploiting the Chargers defense with half time adjustments. The Chargers then adjusted to this, coupled with Fisher and LDT being gassed from not playing, and we had zero time and no established pocket when we tried to throw. We were also down to one running back. Reid, rightly so last night, tried to shorten the game and hold on to the lead. This was the correct decision with last night circumstances. I am talking about last night. Last week, Reid was very aggressive vs. the Titans with the lead, you may not like the calls, but they were aggressive. Last night, even though he tried to shorten the game, he was still aggressive on 3rd and 3. The play had 2 routes with Kelce and I believe Hardman, one at the sticks and one 5 yards behind. Mahomes also was rolling with the option to run. Our line didn't execute and the play didn't work as was the case for most of the 4th quarter. It's hard to run plays when you can't block up front, especially anything down field. The calls to the back in the flat were good plays based on the D and their upfield rush. Mahomes missed one and one was tipped. But hey, bitchers gotta bitch.

[notorious]

Once again, don't use last night to defend him when this has been a problem HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

Yes, Chargers made some good plays, and Mahomes ****ed up. He even snapped the ball with 17 seconds left on the clock with just under 3 minutes left. That all happened, but let's not act like last night has been the reason for Reid's history.

[FloridaMan88]

The Chiefs are ranked 23rd (tied with the Jets and Bengals) in fourth quarter points scored per game so this is not just a one game issue that can be attributed to field conditions, altitude, etc.

[Prison Bitch]

BRC is winning the debate.

[Aspengc8]

No doubt.

Hire an extra guy to script the first x plays in the game. Andy needs to script 15 plays to call when the game is in a high leverage situation late in the game. He is brilliant. Trust the process when it matters. Don't read that GD menu; nothing good comes from it.

JFC you don't script anything past the opening drive. A lot of teams don't even script the first drive.

[chiefzilla1501]

The Chiefs are ranked 23rd (tied with the Jets and Bengals) in fourth quarter points scored per game so this is not just a one game issue that can be attributed to field conditions, altitude, etc.

And that is a trend that continued from last year when we were destroying teams in the first half and consistently let teams back into the game, then magically turned the offense on again when the game got close. It is a game management thing. We can make all the excuses in the world. Hell, Marty stopped playing Marty ball when he was in San Diego and still found ways to lose. I am a sucker but I still think Andy Reid can overcome that and it starts with putting games away with our qb. I get that our qb wasn't at his best yesterday and our OL was a dumpster fire. But id still prefer that our battered offense win games for us instead of our defense. Rivers bailed us out yesterday.

Perhaps Reid had good reasons and yesterday was purely an execution thing. I just find it hard to believe an offense this dominant can be this bad protecting the lead unless it was an issue with mentality and approach. It's always something... It's injuries, or the defense figured us out, or it's special teams mistakes, or it's all on Sutton or spags, or it's execution, or it's right playcalling that didn't work out. We have consistently sucked at protecting leads under Reid and I don't think it's because we get unlucky over and over and over again.

[fan4ever]

In a sick kind of masochistic way I kind of wanted LA to win...a wake up call for fat boy...except for the fact that fat boy ain't never wakin' up...ever.

While I'm whippin' on fat boy, what ever happened to the inventive play calling we saw last year? A lot of misdirection, movement, etc? Maybe Andy's saving it for the playoffs.

[Marcellus]

24-3 against he AFCW since 2015, better than NE record against the AFCE.

We didn't lose in the AFCCG because Reid was too conservative, you guys need to chill the fuck out.

[kysirsoze]

This is an ignorant take.

Play calling was conservative most of the game after they adjusted. They had to. No Tyreek, field fucked, OL dumpster fire.

Andy called fine plays and All 22 will vindicate.

I agree with the OP in general, but this week is a bad time to make the case for the reasons you mentioned. Add in Mahomes being off and I wasn't mad about the conservative calls late. Most weeks, though, I'm screaming and it is a big concern for me going forward.

[O.city]

I think some of it was actually because of Pat. He was leaving some clean pockets and not stepping up when he had the chance early, looked a little skiddish. He's been doing that a bit lately, not a fan.

Stay in the pocket, slide around, step up, make throws.

[Imon Yourside]

My biggest issue with it is that it relies on our weakness (defense) rather than our strength (offense). Yes, you could argue that the field conditions played a role last night, and the OL certainly wasn't giving Patrick much time to work. But still - we're up by 15 in the 3rd quarter and we're already going into a shell. That seems...extreme. And he does it frequently.

Zeggactly, We usually lose these type of games. Yes we won last night so maybe our defense is coming together but I certainly wouldn't count on it. We NEVER seem to be able to put teams away. I'll give people the officials trying to keep it close as that's a given, still the way we react to it is go into don't hurt me mode.

[Wallcrawler]

One would think that since the offense is THE ONLY FUCKING THING ANDY REID PAYS ANY ATTENTION TO ON THIS FOOTBALL TEAM, they should be able to close out a fucking game.

Nope. He turtles up, and more heinous, takes the ball out of Pats hands.

The dude was 5k yards 50 TD to 12 picks. He's thrown ONE true interception this year, and people are grilling him to "just take what's there more."

Fuck that. I saw over a half decade of checkdowns from Chiefs qbs.

You dont get to 5k and 50 "taking what's there.". You let the mvp do what he fucking does, and make superhuman throws.

You're telling Superman he really needs to try to be more like Clark Kent. Its fucking insane.

Andy needs to simply go hands off at the 6 minute mark of the 4th. Let Pat run the offense, and call the plays. Manning did the shit for years, and Mahomes is more than capable.

Its the ONLY way this team will ever close out games is to just take Andy out of the equation.

If you can't swim, keep your fat ass out of the pool.

[Imon Yourside]

And that is a trend that continued from last year when we were destroying teams in the first half and consistently let teams back into the game, then magically turned the offense on again when the game got close. It is a game management thing. We can make all the excuses in the world. Hell, Marty stopped playing Marty ball when he was in San Diego and still found ways to lose. I am a sucker but I still think Andy Reid can overcome that and it starts with putting games away with our qb. I get that our qb wasn't at his best yesterday and our OL was a dumpster fire. But id still prefer that our battered offense win games for us instead of our defense. Rivers bailed us out yesterday.

Perhaps Reid had good reasons and yesterday was purely an execution thing. I just find it hard to believe an offense this dominant can be this bad protecting the lead unless it was an issue with mentality and approach. It's always something... It's injuries, or the defense figured us out, or it's special teams mistakes, or it's all on Sutton or spags, or it's execution, or it's right playcalling that didn't work out. We have consistently sucked at protecting leads under Reid and I don't think it's because we get unlucky over and over and over again.

It's probably going to take another heart wrenching punch to the gut playoff loss or two but maybe he'll come around.

[Imon Yourside]

I think some of it was actually because of Pat. He was leaving some clean pockets and not stepping up when he had the chance early, looked a little skiddish. He's been doing that a bit lately, not a fan.

Stay in the pocket, slide around, step up, make throws.

I definitely noticed a few plays where he should have stepped up but basically created a throwaway by getting out of the pocket. Now if that saves him from getting killed i'm ok with it.

[Hammock Parties]

Nope. He turtles up, and more heinous, takes the ball out of Pats hands.


Not what happened.

Ball was in his hands.

Pat messed up, and when he didn't, the OL did.

Andy called two great plays that got the back wide open in space and Mahomes fucked up.

So then he called a pass with Kelce as the first read, and he was covered, and Mahomes had no time, and sack.

But I give Reid a TON of credit for PUTTING THE GAME IN MAHOMES HANDS because he DID and Pat ran for two key first downs - no shitty screens this time, baby!!!

ANDY PUT THAT BALL IN MAHOMES HANDS AND IT PAID OFF!!!

UNTIL IT DIDN'T!

Not. Andy's. Fault.

[O.city]

Rollouts take away half the field. They're easier to defend.

[mr. tegu]

I’d like to know what percentage of our run plays went between the tackles. It had to be about 90% and I don’t think a single one was effective.

[dirk digler]

And that is a trend that continued from last year when we were destroying teams in the first half and consistently let teams back into the game, then magically turned the offense on again when the game got close. It is a game management thing. We can make all the excuses in the world. Hell, Marty stopped playing Marty ball when he was in San Diego and still found ways to lose. I am a sucker but I still think Andy Reid can overcome that and it starts with putting games away with our qb. I get that our qb wasn't at his best yesterday and our OL was a dumpster fire. But id still prefer that our battered offense win games for us instead of our defense. Rivers bailed us out yesterday.

Perhaps Reid had good reasons and yesterday was purely an execution thing. I just find it hard to believe an offense this dominant can be this bad protecting the lead unless it was an issue with mentality and approach. It's always something... It's injuries, or the defense figured us out, or it's special teams mistakes, or it's all on Sutton or spags, or it's execution, or it's right playcalling that didn't work out. We have consistently sucked at protecting leads under Reid and I don't think it's because we get unlucky over and over and over again.


Totally agree with everything here except your belief\optimism that Reid will change because I have zero faith he will. He hasn't shown it yet anyway.

[MahiMike]

Kareem Hunt would solve this. Basically he doesn't have a RB that can get 2 yards when absolutely needed.

[MahiMike]

I’d like to know what percentage of our run plays went between the tackles. It had to be about 90% and I don’t think a single one was effective.

Williams scored from the 8 right up the gut.

[Gravedigger]

He would rather lose conservatively than possibly lose guns blazing. I'd like a coach that would be the opposite. Sam Mellinger said that Reid would "leave money on the table" which is a good analogy for his play not to lose mentality instead of playing to win.

[Hammock Parties]

Totally agree with everything here except your belief\optimism that Reid will change because I have zero faith he will. He hasn't shown it yet anyway.

LOL

HE LITERALLY TOOK A GAMEPLAN AND THREW IT OUT WHEN THE FIELD STARTED SHITTING AND TYREEK BROKE

HE STARTED CALLING MARTYBALL PLAYS TO ADAPT AND ROLLED UP TWO HUNDREDS YARDS IN ONE HALF

GET. A. FUCKING. CLUE.

[comochiefsfan]

What I don’t understand, if he’s so hell bent on running these awful one read screens/rollouts on critical downs, then why doesn’t he try to get the ball to our best players?

Kelce was abusing the zone all night long and didn’t even get a look in the fourth quarter. Sammy Watkins was invisible all night. Just let these guys run routes and find soft spots in the zone and let’s move the chains.

When you give Pat one read, then you’re taking away everything that makes him great. I just don’t understand essentially taking the ball out of our best players’ hands with the game on the line.

[Hammock Parties]

What I don’t understand, if he’s so hell bent on running these awful one read screens/rollouts on critical downs, then why doesn’t he try to get the ball to our best players?


can't think of a single rollout the chiefs ran on the last three drives - name it - go in the box and find it, genious


Kelce was abusing the zone all night long and didn’t even get a look in the fourth quarter.

this is 100% false - the last third down he was the first read - covered, OL shit itself


When you give Pat one read, then you’re taking away everything that makes him great.

this didn't happen, except on a single screen pass

it's OK for Andy to call one screen in a quarter, really, it is

anyway, ball was in mahomes hands, he made some plays, screwed up others, move on, we won

[bobbything]

I’d like to know what percentage of our run plays went between the tackles. It had to be about 90% and I don’t think a single one was effective.
This has been one of my biggest criticisms of Reid since he came to KC. The running game is almost exclusively up the butt of the center or right/left guard. We don't ever really do any pulls or sweeps or off tackle stuff. It would seem that with a "finesse" line those would be far more effective.

[dirk digler]

LOL

HE LITERALLY TOOK A GAMEPLAN AND THREW IT OUT WHEN THE FIELD STARTED SHITTING AND TYREEK BROKE

HE STARTED CALLING MARTYBALL PLAYS TO ADAPT AND ROLLED UP TWO HUNDREDS YARDS IN ONE HALF

GET. A. FUCKING. CLUE.


Maybe go back and read what zilla posted that I was agreeing with. He goes conservative with a lead and this has been a problem for a long while.

[O.city]

The last 3rd down was a rollout, no?

[FloridaMan88]

What I don’t understand, if he’s so hell bent on running these awful one read screens/rollouts on critical downs, then why doesn’t he try to get the ball to our best players?

Agreed, it is hard to understand Andy's logic on those critical plays at the end of games.

Last week on 3rd and 2 before the botched FG snap, the Chiefs call a pass play to seldom used/back-up TE Blake Bell.

Last night 6 of the 9 plays on the final two offensive drives (before the kneel down), involved run or screen pass attempts to third string RB Darrel Williams.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

What I don’t understand, if he’s so hell bent on running these awful one read screens/rollouts on critical downs, then why doesn’t he try to get the ball to our best players?

Kelce was abusing the zone all night long and didn’t even get a look in the fourth quarter. Sammy Watkins was invisible all night. Just let these guys run routes and find soft spots in the zone and let’s move the chains.

When you give Pat one read, then you’re taking away everything that makes him great. I just don’t understand essentially taking the ball out of our best players’ hands with the game on the line.

Kelce was the first read on the play, Mecole the second, they were covered and the run option wasn't there because we couldn't block shit at the time.

[notorious]

Evidently the fields have been shitty every time Reid has a lead.

[Hammock Parties]

The last 3rd down was a rollout, no?

You correct, it was. But Mahomes still had room to step up and scramble. But the OL caved almost instantly thereafter.

But you know, not a screen, ball in Mahomes hands!!! YAY REID!!!

[GeorgeZimZam]

Damnit! The cartel didn't realize he's Mormon.

[Hammock Parties]

Evidently the fields have been shitty every time Reid has a lead.

fuck off and enjoy the win you fuck

[Hammock Parties]

Last night 6 of the 9 plays on the final two offensive drives (before the kneel down), involved run or screen pass attempts to third string RB Darrel Williams.

another buttfucking moron who doesn't know what he's watching

[dirk digler]

I would love to see some All-22 gifs (hint hint)

[Hammock Parties]

I would love to see some All-22 gifs (hint hint)

wait for the fucking footage release, jesus fucking christ

[chiefzilla1501]

I almost wonder if there's a culture problem. Does this team pack confidence closing games. Seems we have a different set of reasons or excuses every week. Seems we have a top down mentality of playing not to lose when we're protecting a lead. Doesn't make any sense otherwise. It's not like we're bad on pressure situations on offense. In fact, we're outstanding. You can dial up a less conservative play but even mahomes may be thinking his job is to not make mistakes instead of going for the throat. He doesn't seem to be the same qb in these situations.

[dirk digler]

wait for the fucking footage release, jesus fucking christ


No I want you to do your fucking job and post gifs. You have been slacking of late. :D

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

I almost wonder if there's a culture problem. Does this team pack confidence closing games. Seems we have a different set of reasons or excuses every week. Seems we have a top down mentality of playing not to lose when we're protecting a lead. Doesn't make any sense otherwise. It's not like we're bad on pressure situations on offense. In fact, we're outstanding. You can dial up a less conservative play but even mahomes may be thinking his job is to not make mistakes instead of going for the throat. He doesn't seem to be the same qb in these situations.

:rolleyes: rewatch the game... it may help. Use a stop watch and see how much time Mahomes had in the fourth quarter or if there was even a hint of a pocket... If Mahomes makes a good throw on one of the flat passes to a RB or one of them wasn't tipped, this discussion is moot.

[chiefzilla1501]

:rolleyes: rewatch the game... it may help. Use a stop watch and see how much time Mahomes had in the fourth quarter or if there was even a hint of a pocket... If Mahomes makes a good throw on one of the flat passes to a RB or one of them wasn't tipped, this discussion is moot.

What does that have to do with anything I just said.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

What does that have to do with anything I just said.

That your narrative is full of shit... What play calls would you have made differently last night in the final 5 minutes... :rolleyes:

[Hammock Parties]

No I want you to do your fucking job and post gifs. You have been slacking of late. :D

jesus titty fucking christ, the footage isn't out you buttfucking mongoloid

not to mention i post gifs every fucking game in the fucking game thread and the fucking mahomes gif thread

what fucking else do you need you piece of shit? a fucking reach around?

[FloridaMan88]

another butt****ing moron who doesn't know what he's watching

LMAO your latest act that is a combination of Nick Athan-wannabe failed Chiefs "insider" and blind homer is hilariously lame.

Last two Chiefs' offensive drives of the game before the kneel down... 6 of the 9 non-punting plays involved a run or screen pass attempt to Darrel Williams.

Drive #1:

1st & 10 at KC 42
(6:07 - 4th) D.Williams left guard to KC 45 for 3 yards (D.Perryman; M.Ingram).

2nd & 7 at KC 45
(5:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass short left to D.Williams to KC 49 for 4 yards (J.Watkins).

3rd & 3 at KC 49
(4:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass incomplete short left to D.Williams (M.Ingram).

4th & 3 at KC 49
(4:30 - 4th) (Punt formation) D.Colquitt punts 34 yards to LAC 17, Center-J.Winchester, downed by KC-D.Williams.

Drive #2:

1st & 10 at KC 33
(4:13 - 4th) D.Williams left guard to KC 36 for 3 yards (D.Perryman).

2nd & 7 at KC 36
(3:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes scrambles right end to KC 37 for 1 yard (K.White).

(3:20 - 4th) Timeout #1 by LAC at 03:20.

3rd & 6 at KC 37
(3:20 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes scrambles left end to LAC 48 for 15 yards (J.Watkins).

(3:11 - 4th) Timeout #2 by LAC at 03:11.

1st & 10 at LAC 48
(3:11 - 4th) D.Williams right guard to LAC 44 for 4 yards (T.Davis; R.Jenkins).

(3:03 - 4th) Timeout #3 by LAC at 03:03.

2nd & 6 at LAC 44
(3:03 - 4th) D.Williams up the middle to LAC 42 for 2 yards (J.Bosa, D.Square).

3rd & 4 at LAC 42
(2:21 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes sacked at LAC 44 for -2 yards (M.Ingram). LAC-M.Ingram was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

(2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning

4th & 6 at LAC 44
(1:53 - 4th) (Punt formation) D.Colquitt punts 35 yards to LAC 9, Center-J.Winchester, fair catch by T.Pope.

[BryanBusby]

Evidently the fields have been shitty every time Reid has a lead.
Hm yes because they play in Mexico every week. Great observation.

LMAO your latest act that is a combination of Nick Athan-wannabe failed Chiefs "insider" and blind homer is hilariously lame.

Last two Chiefs' offensive drives of the game before the kneel down... 6 of the 9 non-punting plays involved a run or screen pass attempt to Darrel Williams.

Drive #1:

1st & 10 at KC 42
(6:07 - 4th) D.Williams left guard to KC 45 for 3 yards (D.Perryman; M.Ingram).

2nd & 7 at KC 45
(5:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass short left to D.Williams to KC 49 for 4 yards (J.Watkins).

3rd & 3 at KC 49
(4:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass incomplete short left to D.Williams (M.Ingram).

4th & 3 at KC 49
(4:30 - 4th) (Punt formation) D.Colquitt punts 34 yards to LAC 17, Center-J.Winchester, downed by KC-D.Williams.

Drive #2:

1st & 10 at KC 33
(4:13 - 4th) D.Williams left guard to KC 36 for 3 yards (D.Perryman).

2nd & 7 at KC 36
(3:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes scrambles right end to KC 37 for 1 yard (K.White).

(3:20 - 4th) Timeout #1 by LAC at 03:20.

3rd & 6 at KC 37
(3:20 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes scrambles left end to LAC 48 for 15 yards (J.Watkins).

(3:11 - 4th) Timeout #2 by LAC at 03:11.

1st & 10 at LAC 48
(3:11 - 4th) D.Williams right guard to LAC 44 for 4 yards (T.Davis; R.Jenkins).

(3:03 - 4th) Timeout #3 by LAC at 03:03.

2nd & 6 at LAC 44
(3:03 - 4th) D.Williams up the middle to LAC 42 for 2 yards (J.Bosa, D.Square).

3rd & 4 at LAC 42
(2:21 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes sacked at LAC 44 for -2 yards (M.Ingram). LAC-M.Ingram was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

(2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning

4th & 6 at LAC 44
(1:53 - 4th) (Punt formation) D.Colquitt punts 35 yards to LAC 9, Center-J.Winchester, fair catch by T.Pope.

pepperidge farms remembers just a few weeks ago when everyone was bitching that Andy should have ran the ball more late in the game.

[dirk digler]

jesus titty fucking christ, the footage isn't out you buttfucking mongoloid

not to mention i post gifs every fucking game in the fucking game thread and the fucking mahomes gif thread

what fucking else do you need you piece of shit? a fucking reach around?

Yes that would be nice.

In all seriousness though I don't have GamePass but maybe I will fork the money for it to be able to see the All-22.

[O.city]

The OL played it's first game together in like 2 months, it showed.

Andy definitely went conservative, they had the "lets get the hell out of here with a lead and a win" mentality.

It worked out barely, but if they lose that's one that's tough to live down.

[chiefzilla1501]

That your narrative is full of shit... What play calls would you have made differently last night in the final 5 minutes... :rolleyes:

The comment wasn't about the playcalling. It's about the mentality on the field of playing not to lose when we're up. Maybe the qb is trying too hard not to make mistakes. Maybe the offense lacks confidence they can close games. I don't know. I just know somethings not right. If it's not playcalling, what is it? Or do we need to come up with a different set of excuses each game? Maybe it's systemic. Not one thing or the other.

[FloridaMan88]

pepperidge farms remembers just a few weeks ago when everyone was bitching that Andy should have ran the ball more late in the game.

That is not the point.

The point is why is a third string RB the Chiefs featured offensive weapon... both running and in the passing game... on the majority of the plays on those critical last two drives (before the kneel down)?

[BryanBusby]

That is not the point.

The point is why is a third string RB the Chiefs featured offensive weapon... both running and in the passing game... on the majority of the plays on those critical last two drives (before the kneel down)?
Well uh, what other runningback were they going to use? Barry Sanders?

[O.city]

He's been so so awesome, we tend to forget, this was Mahomes what, 26th ish start?

I mean, it's the worst game he's played as a Chief. It's ok. He's 23 and in his second year as the starter. Guys have stinkers.

[scho63]

Andy Reid nego thread #1,622

[FloridaMan88]

Well uh, what other runningback were they going to use? Barry Sanders?

I think it is legal to pass the ball to other players besides Darrel Williams.

Kelce? Hardman? Watkins? DRob?

[chiefzilla1501]

He's been so so awesome, we tend to forget, this was Mahomes what, 26th ish start?

I mean, it's the worst game he's played as a Chief. It's ok. He's 23 and in his second year as the starter. Guys have stinkers.

The stinker of a game doesn't bother me. That will get figured out. Maybe the bad 4th quarter was an extension of that. Maybe it was circumstantial with injuries and exhaustion. You can claim those are one off problems. But what is a consistent trend is that mahomes qb rating is SIGNIFICANTLY lower when we are protecting a lead. Going back to his mvp year too. I'll have to go back to the #s but I think last year every stat was dramatically worse.

Mahomes has been unstoppable in the first few quarters. An outstanding closer in close games and when he's behind. He has not been good when we're protecting a lead. I don't know if it's mahomes or if it's Reid. But seeing that this problem has followed Reid for decades across lots of qbs, I'm going to say it's a Reid thing.

[stumppy]

LMAO your latest act that is a combination of Nick Athan-wannabe failed Chiefs "insider" and blind homer is hilariously lame.

Last two Chiefs' offensive drives of the game before the kneel down... 6 of the 9 non-punting plays involved a run or screen pass attempt to Darrel Williams.

Drive #1:

1st & 10 at KC 42
(6:07 - 4th) D.Williams left guard to KC 45 for 3 yards (D.Perryman; M.Ingram).

2nd & 7 at KC 45
(5:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass short left to D.Williams to KC 49 for 4 yards (J.Watkins).

3rd & 3 at KC 49
(4:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass incomplete short left to D.Williams (M.Ingram).

4th & 3 at KC 49
(4:30 - 4th) (Punt formation) D.Colquitt punts 34 yards to LAC 17, Center-J.Winchester, downed by KC-D.Williams.

Drive #2:

1st & 10 at KC 33
(4:13 - 4th) D.Williams left guard to KC 36 for 3 yards (D.Perryman).

2nd & 7 at KC 36
(3:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes scrambles right end to KC 37 for 1 yard (K.White).

(3:20 - 4th) Timeout #1 by LAC at 03:20.

3rd & 6 at KC 37
(3:20 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes scrambles left end to LAC 48 for 15 yards (J.Watkins).

(3:11 - 4th) Timeout #2 by LAC at 03:11.

1st & 10 at LAC 48
(3:11 - 4th) D.Williams right guard to LAC 44 for 4 yards (T.Davis; R.Jenkins).

(3:03 - 4th) Timeout #3 by LAC at 03:03.

2nd & 6 at LAC 44
(3:03 - 4th) D.Williams up the middle to LAC 42 for 2 yards (J.Bosa, D.Square).

3rd & 4 at LAC 42
(2:21 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes sacked at LAC 44 for -2 yards (M.Ingram). LAC-M.Ingram was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

(2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning

4th & 6 at LAC 44
(1:53 - 4th) (Punt formation) D.Colquitt punts 35 yards to LAC 9, Center-J.Winchester, fair catch by T.Pope.


Still scratching my head over that.

[BryanBusby]

I think it is legal to pass the ball to other players besides Darrel Williams.

Kelce? Hardman? Watkins? DRob?
Sure is, but most of those plays on the passing front weren't screens and that's where Pat made the decision to go with the ball. How is that on Andy Reid?

[O.city]

The stinker of a game doesn't bother me. That will get figured out. Maybe the bad 4th quarter was an extension of that. Maybe it was circumstantial with injuries and exhaustion. You can claim those are one off problems. But what is a consistent trend is that mahomes qb rating is SIGNIFICANTLY lower when we are protecting a lead. Going back to his mvp year too. I'll have to go back to the #s but I think last year every stat was dramatically worse.

Mahomes has been unstoppable in the first quarter. An outstanding closer in close games and when he's behind. He has not been good when we're protecting a lead. I don't know if it's mahomes or if it's Reid. But seeing that this problem has followed Reid for decades across lots of qbs, I'm going to say it's a Reid thing.

Well, he's a 2nd year starter that's never had to manage the game before. Look at him in college and such. He's always played aggressive and balls to the wall.

When you get leads, the first thing you want to do is extend it. Second being not giving the opponent an easy score or a short field and let them back in it.

I think this is where the running game or lack there of hurts KC.

[Hammock Parties]

I think it is legal to pass the ball to other players besides Darrel Williams.

Kelce? Hardman? Watkins? DRob?

man did you even see the final fucking play we ran

fuck

[O.city]

Fisher was struggling last night, Schwartz is banged up and they were facing Ingram and Bosa (they're both really good) so they had to do what they had to do.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO your latest act that is a combination of Nick Athan-wannabe failed Chiefs "insider" and blind homer is hilariously lame.

Last two Chiefs' offensive drives of the game before the kneel down... 6 of the 9 non-punting plays involved a run or screen pass attempt to Darrel Williams.


there were no screen passes to williams here

moron

there was a flat pass where williams was WIDE OPEN because ANDY made a GREAT CALL

that mahomes

failed

to

execute

[FloridaMan88]

Sure is, but most of those plays on the passing front weren't screens and that's where Pat made the decision to go with the ball. How is that on Andy Reid?

Screen pass to Darrel Williams was the primary option on all of those plays.

I don’t have a problem with a high % short pass... but why not use Hardman or Watkins on a bubble screen type play rather than exclusively going to Darrel Williams.

Nothing against Darrel Williams but there are better options to throw the ball to in those crucial plays that could have allowed the offense to close out the game.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

It’s probably been talked about but don’t discount a couple of things here.

First, LA was clearly hell bent on keeping everything in front of them. Seemed like they made a concerted halftime adjustment to take what they gave underneath. I wish we would have been a smidge more aggressive, but they were smart to sit in those zone voids where Kelce was very successful.

Also, I think coming out of the half, the offensive staff knew the defense was gassed. They played so much in the first half. They wanted longer drives IMO to regain control of TOP.

Still wish we would’ve executed better obviously, but I don’t expect them to approach each game that way. If anything though, it’s somewhat encouraging to see they are capable of ‘taking what is given’.

[Hammock Parties]

MAHOMES NEEDS TO HOLD THE BALL HERE TO GET SACKED SO HE CAN BE AGGRESSIVE GUYS

NO WAY HE SHOULD THROW THAT "SCREEN"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJweSodXsAA2FJ5?format=jpg&name=large

[FloridaMan88]

Sure is, but most of those plays on the passing front weren't screens and that's where Pat made the decision to go with the ball. How is that on Andy Reid?

there were no screen passes to williams here

moron

there was a flat pass where williams was WIDE OPEN because ANDY made a GREAT CALL

that mahomes

failed

to

execute

There were THREE screen passes/“flat passes”.. whatever terminology you want to use to Darrel Williams on those final two drives.

It was run up the middle with Darrel Williams or a screen pass to him.

That was basically the Chiefs offense on their last two offensive drives that failed to close out the game.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Screen pass to Darrel Williams was the primary option on all of those plays.

I don’t have a problem with a high % short pass... but why not use Hardman or Watkins on a bubble screen type play rather than exclusively going to Darrel Williams.

Nothing against Darrel Williams but there are better options to throw the ball to in those crucial plays that could have allowed the offense to close out the game.

you are football illiterate...

[Hammock Parties]

ANDY EXONERATED BY A MAHOMES

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I agree Patrick missed those throws</p>&mdash; Tinesha Mahomes (@TineshaMahomes) <a href="https://twitter.com/TineshaMahomes/status/1196865175544115201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[notorious]

Hm yes because they play in Mexico every week. Great observation.



.

The point flew right over your head.

[Hammock Parties]

There were THREE screen passes/“flat passes”.. whatever terminology you want to use to Darrel Williams on those final two drives.


a SCREEN is not the same as a pass to the flat

williams was NOT the only option but Mahomes did throw to him because he was OPEN

AND HE WAS ABOUT TO GET FUCKING SACKED YOU JACKASS

[lcarus]

I just want us to get a bit more creative with our run plays. Some tosses and jet sweeps would be nice to see. Or some jet sweeps. Hill, Hardman, and Sammy are great with the ball in their hands.

[comochiefsfan]

Clay a Mahomes hater now?

Didn’t see this heel turn coming.

[O.city]

Yeah, what happened to all the bubble screens and jet sweeps they used to do?

[Hammock Parties]

people are really bitching about 3, 4-yard runs a week after we were screaming for andy to run the ball at the end of the game?

shut the fuck up about grinding clock

the OL was a fucking SIEVE

run clock or get sacked, pick

[notorious]

Yeah, what happened to all the bubble screens and jet sweeps they used to do?

I can see why they didn't jet sweep. Our tackles were getting their ass kicked the entire game. A jet sweep would get annihilated with that happening.

[FloridaMan88]

a SCREEN is not the same as a pass to the flat

williams was NOT the only option but Mahomes did throw to him because he was OPEN

AND HE WAS ABOUT TO GET ****ING SACKED YOU JACKASS

He wasn’t about to get sacked on all THREE of those exact same play calls to Darrel Williams.

JFC.

[stumppy]

Screen pass to Darrel Williams was the primary option on all of those plays.

I don’t have a problem with a high % short pass... but why not use Hardman or Watkins on a bubble screen type play rather than exclusively going to Darrel Williams.

Nothing against Darrel Williams but there are better options to throw the ball to in those crucial plays that could have allowed the offense to close out the game.

I have plenty against DW. He ain't worth a shit.

[O.city]

I can see why they didn't jet sweep. Our tackles were getting their ass kicked the entire game. A jet sweep would get annihilated with that happening.

I'd think Hardman or Watkins would be past that by the time the tackle got anywhere close though right?

Good call on the time off from CP though. I took a week off, was nice.

[notorious]

I'd think Hardman or Watkins would be past that by the time the tackle got anywhere close though right?

Good call on the time off from CP though. I took a week off, was nice.

It really does help.

With the bye week coming I need to take my own advice!

[Hammock Parties]

He wasn’t about to get sacked on all THREE of those exact same play calls to Darrel Williams.

JFC.

Shady was wide fucking open here. This is a sizable gain, maybe for a first.

Mahomes missed.

BLAME. MAHOMES.

https://i.imgur.com/kj9M54y.png

[FloridaMan88]

people are really bitching about 3, 4-yard runs a week after we were screaming for andy to run the ball at the end of the game?

shut the **** up about grinding clock

the OL was a ****ing SIEVE

run clock or get sacked, pick

JFC, do you actually watch these games?

The Chiefs were running the ball much better in the Tennessee game... Damien Williams was averaging 4.1 YPC as the primary runner.

Last night the Chiefs were struggling to run the ball other than with Mahomes scrambles... Darrel Williams was averaging 3.2 YPC as the primary runner.

Different games, different things that were working.

[dirk digler]

Yeah, what happened to all the bubble screens and jet sweeps they used to do?


A bubble screen to Hardman would have been an excellent call. Getting the ball into the hands of the fastest player on the field makes alot of sense to me.

[FloridaMan88]

Shady was wide ****ing open here. This is a sizable gain, maybe for a first.

Mahomes missed.

BLAME. MAHOMES.

https://i.imgur.com/kj9M54y.png

McCoy was injured/not in the game on the last two offensive drives (before the kneel down) that we are discussing, try to keep up.

[ChiefsCountry]

Shady was wide ****ing open here. This is a sizable gain, maybe for a first.

Mahomes missed.

BLAME. MAHOMES.

https://i.imgur.com/kj9M54y.png

Biggest play of the game besides the Honey Badger dropped pick. That would have ended the Chargers. Shady had a ton of room to run.

[Marcellus]

Rollouts take away half the field. They're easier to defend.

Not for Mahomes it doesn't.

[Marcellus]

Clay a Mahomes hater now?

Didn’t see this heel turn coming.

Ain't nobody hating Mahomes (you would have to be a complete moron or JakeF to do that) but he didn't play well last night.

[O.city]

Not for Mahomes it doesn't.

Designed rollouts aren't going to have routes to the opposite side of the field. In those cases, it's a half field read or throw it away.

[O.city]

That one to McCoy there would have went for atleast 10 IIRC.

[Hammock Parties]

McCoy was injured/not in the game on the last two offensive drives (before the kneel down) that we are discussing, try to keep up.

this was at the 8 minute mark

just goes to show you why they kept sending a RB to the flat

IT WAS WORKING

[Wallcrawler]

All I know is that if we are behind, this offense moves the fucking ball. We are aggressive, and we get downfield.

But somehow, up 7 and need to get down the field to get a first and put the game away, we all of a sudden are the keystone cops and repeatedly fail to convert.

[O.city]

It really does help.

With the bye week coming I need to take my own advice!

I just completely got away from football for a week. I came in a time or two, mostly because it was when i opened the browser CP came up lol.

It's nice to take a break every once in a while.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Reid turning us into the Pats!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Watkins, Hardman, and Robinson combined targets last night: 8<br><br>McCoy, Darrel, and Damien Williams combined targets last night: 10 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1196836306837557249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[O.city]

Yeah, it would be nice for Watkins to you know, do something. I get that he can't do much if Pat doesn't throw him the ball, but they just don't seem to have much chemistry or something.

[crayzkirk]

I've been a huge critic of Reid, wasn't happy with the hiring of him or Alex. That doesn't mean that I have any better suggestions and even if I did, it wouldn't matter.

The more I watch the Chiefs, the more I think Andy simply goes by the numbers. It appears that he believes playing it safe, even with a questionable defense, gives the Chiefs the best odds of winning.

Neither team looked like world beaters last night. The Chiefs didn't look like the team that I remembered except for one drive. Blame the altitude, the field, the players, the coaches, the owner, the referees or a combination of any/all of these.

I just expected them to play better this year and for a multitude of reasons, they seem to be underachieving...

[Marcellus]

Designed rollouts aren't going to have routes to the opposite side of the field. In those cases, it's a half field read or throw it away.

They have run many designed rollout throwback passes the last 2 seasons. Usually to Kelce.

[Marcellus]

Yeah, it would be nice for Watkins to you know, do something. I get that he can't do much if Pat doesn't throw him the ball, but they just don't seem to have much chemistry or something.

I don't know if it was the field, or the OL or what but it was an unusual game plan last night.

[dannybcaitlyn]

Andy needs to spend the week on improving short yardage situations. We need to be able to close the games at the end. Frustrating

[O.city]

They have run many designed rollout throwback passes the last 2 seasons. Usually to Kelce.

They've run some throw back screens and such. Maybe would have worked last night

[Halfcan]

When Andy runs the same dink and dunk offense every time he gets a lead- it is not too hard to figure it out.

Andy is the problem with this team and needs to retire.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

As predictable as things have seemed at times, I find myself wondering if Andy is just sitting on a whole bunch of shit that he doesn’t wanna show until New England.

That could be wrong, but they’ve never felt as predictable as they have so far this season.

[O.city]

You can't be aggressive and throw it all over the yard when you are getting beat quickly up front.

The OL struggled against a good front. It happens.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

You can't be aggressive and throw it all over the yard when you are getting beat quickly up front.

The OL struggled against a good front. It happens.

Yeah I’d think Fisher gets better too. First time he’s played in months in high altitude against that DL is quite tough.

[FAX]

Coaches are always the beneficiaries and victims of hindsight.

When the mob says Wally can't win games with his philosophy, they have to ignore the wins. When they say he can't win "big" games, they have to ignore the "big" wins. (Which Wally has had.)

As for last night, the turf wasn't conducive to speed (our strength) and the game went to hell after both teams' players were depleted of oxygen.

The Chiefs offense isn't built to run on sand and random chunks of peat. The o-line (other than Schwartz) sucked total ass. We lost our best WR in the 1st quarter. We ran out of running backs (couldn't rotate a single sub) and still won the game. (Props to the Williams kid because that had to be like playing in moon atmosphere.)

Yes, Rivers thinks he can still throw and sometimes he gets lucky. But he's always thrown picks. One of the reasons we got 4 in this game was the pressure applied by the defensive front. Should have had 5 ... and if we had, we probably would have won by 14.

Just one of those ugly games played in conditions that couldn't have been designed more perfectly to hinder the Chiefs offense. But we needed a win and we got one.

The haters want flash and style and highlight plays and MVP discussion. I'll take the dub.

FAX

[FAX]

They've run some throw back screens and such. Maybe would have worked last night

Dude ... the Electricians were all over our screen game last night.

FAX

[Marcellus]

They've run some throw back screens and such. Maybe would have worked last night

You have to wonder.

[Halfcan]

You can't be aggressive and throw it all over the yard when you are getting beat quickly up front.

The OL struggled against a good front. It happens.

So why would Andy continue to call pass plays behind the line of scrimmage when they are crowding in already? It is literally the easiest pass to defend against and he calls it 6 times in 4 possessions?

When the Chargers were playing back- he calls all deep passes into the teeth of the defense. When they were stacking the line because the knew Andy was going to try to coast for the win- he calls all zero vertical plays right into the heart of the defense.

:banghead:

[chiefzilla1501]

Coaches are always the beneficiaries and victims of hindsight.

When the mob says Wally can't win games with his philosophy, they have to ignore the wins. When they say he can't win "big" games, they have to ignore the "big" wins. (Which Wally has had.)

As for last night, the turf wasn't conducive to speed (our strength) and the game went to hell after both teams' players were depleted of oxygen.

The Chiefs offense isn't built to run on sand and random chunks of peat. The o-line (other than Schwartz) sucked total ass. We lost our best WR in the 1st quarter. We ran out of running backs (couldn't rotate a single sub) and still won the game. (Props to the Williams kid because that had to be like playing in moon atmosphere.)

Yes, Rivers thinks he can still throw and sometimes he gets lucky. But he's always thrown picks. One of the reasons we got 4 in this game was the pressure applied by the defensive front. Should have had 5 ... and if we had, we probably would have won by 14.

Just one of those ugly games played in conditions that couldn't have been designed more perfectly to hinder the Chiefs offense. But we needed a win and we got one.

The haters want flash and style and highlight plays and MVP discussion. I'll take the dub.

FAX

With Alex Smith, you understand. He played 4th quarters the same safe way he played the first 3. With Mahomes, he plays a lot less effectively in protect the lead situations. Yeah, we close out a lot of these games. But last year included a ton of games where we barely snuck by in wins where we blew out the game in the first half. This year we're seeing that maybe that formula doesn't work as well if our offense isn't blowing the doors off early in the game. We may win the majority of these games now, but in the playoffs we just can't afford to take quarters off. We can't give the ball back to a playoff offense three straight drives like we did vs the chargers and Baltimore. We may have squeaked by but why do we need to be put on those situations to begin with. We have to be better at putting teams away.

I still want to believe that our struggles are learning experiences. Maybe we ignored it last year because it's easier to protect a blowout. But hopefully seeing now that we should be finding ways to put games away because our offense just can't turn on the turbo switch just because we asked them to. Maybe last year, but not this year.

[BryanBusby]

this was at the 8 minute mark

just goes to show you why they kept sending a RB to the flat

IT WAS WORKING
Nobody seems to understand how much zone the Chargers were playing on the back end.

[O.city]

I don't know that he went conservative, I kinda think Pat starting seeing pressure and kinda turtled up.

When you watch some of the clips, he's throwing it pretty quick. Sure he was getting pressured, so you understand it atleast i guess.

[chiefzilla1501]

Mahomes 4q numbers are tough in 2019 because he had a few games where he was too hurt to be able to throw. So let's look at 2018....

Ahead by 9 - 16 pts....
91.1 qb rating (113.8 overall)
7.1 Avg yards (8.8 overall)
59.1% completion % (66% overall)
6 / 2 td/INT ratio (44 / 10 otherwise)

Across every other situation we were consistently outstanding on every single statistic. That includes games where we're behind even by a lot which you'd think would be much worse. these numbers in TD+ leads are dramatically worse. And most fans believe that passes the eyeball test too. We simply aren't as effective passing the ball in protect the lead situations. Which is to be expected but not this dramatic a difference. We masked it last year. But this year its become an issue. Doesn't matter who you blame. We have to put games away better.

[Marcellus]

I don't know that he went conservative, I kinda think Pat starting seeing pressure and kinda turtled up.

When you watch some of the clips, he's throwing it pretty quick. Sure he was getting pressured, so you understand it at least i guess.

The whole game plan may have been to negate Bosa and Ingram by just getting rid of the ball quick and running a shit ton of screens.


I mean if you look at it objectively it would have been good enough for a 14pt win had HB not dropped a gimmee.

[O.city]

The whole game plan may have been to negate Bosa and Ingram by just getting rid of the ball quick and running a shit ton of screens.


I mean if you look at it objectively it would have been good enough for a 14pt win had HB not dropped a gimmee.

Yeah, but i'm tired of doing that shit. Seems like every game this year it's been this or that.

Watkins talked about it after the game. They haven't played a good game yet. It's maddening and seems to be a bit of a team that bought in to their own hype IMO.

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't know that he went conservative, I kinda think Pat starting seeing pressure and kinda turtled up.

When you watch some of the clips, he's throwing it pretty quick. Sure he was getting pressured, so you understand it atleast i guess.

Is it also possible that pat doesn't want to make mistakes. Doesn't want an incomplete pass to stop the clock. Doesn't want to take a loss on a sack. Doesn't want to throw a pick. Could that split second hesitation lead to not making the aggressive throws he typically is unafraid to throw? Could overthinking a decision lead to putting too much touch on a pass. It's an explanation for how even an aggressive playcall can be handled very conservatively.

[Marcellus]

Yeah, but i'm tired of doing that shit. Seems like every game this year it's been this or that.

Watkins talked about it after the game. They haven't played a good game yet. It's maddening and seems to be a bit of a team that bought in to their own hype IMO.

Meh, I think the team needed a good "defensive" win. The offense isn't going to play remotely that bad again this year, its was a complete outlier. I mean we are 11 games into the season have the #1 offense according to DVOA.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2019 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFL</a> Weeks 1-11, most to fewest games vs teams that currently have winning records (yes, losing to these teams improves their records). <a href="https://t.co/K8aSsq6P6B">pic.twitter.com/K8aSsq6P6B</a></p>&mdash; Mike Sando (@SandoNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/SandoNFL/status/1196891385518968833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[chiefzilla1501]

Meh, I think the team needed a good "defensive" win. The offense isn't going to play remotely that bad again this year, its was a complete outlier. I mean we are 11 games into the season have the #1 offense according to DVOA.

We did need that and it's a great note for our defense to ride into the bye week. But the late game protect the lead inconsistency is not an outlier. We've been consistently not nearly as good. I would hope it's games like this that create the urgency to tighten that up. There's no need to make nailbiters out of games we could easily put away.

[Dartgod]

Coaches are always the beneficiaries and victims of hindsight.

When the mob says Wally can't win games with his philosophy, they have to ignore the wins. When they say he can't win "big" games, they have to ignore the "big" wins. (Which Wally has had.)

As for last night, the turf wasn't conducive to speed (our strength) and the game went to hell after both teams' players were depleted of oxygen.

The Chiefs offense isn't built to run on sand and random chunks of peat. The o-line (other than Schwartz) sucked total ass. We lost our best WR in the 1st quarter. We ran out of running backs (couldn't rotate a single sub) and still won the game. (Props to the Williams kid because that had to be like playing in moon atmosphere.)

Yes, Rivers thinks he can still throw and sometimes he gets lucky. But he's always thrown picks. One of the reasons we got 4 in this game was the pressure applied by the defensive front. Should have had 5 ... and if we had, we probably would have won by 14.

Just one of those ugly games played in conditions that couldn't have been designed more perfectly to hinder the Chiefs offense. But we needed a win and we got one.

The haters want flash and style and highlight plays and MVP discussion. I'll take the dub.

FAX


BUT ANDY REID!!!! AAAGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!11111111ELEVENELEVEN

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/inside_out_anger_fullbody.png

[-King-]

As predictable as things have seemed at times, I find myself wondering if Andy is just sitting on a whole bunch of shit that he doesn’t wanna show until New England.

That could be wrong, but they’ve never felt as predictable as they have so far this season.

I said that earlier this season. Most seasons Andy starts the year on fire with creative plays and we abuse teams until they finally start to adjust and in a lot of cases, start copying Andy's plays. We didn't do that this year. I bet we have plays saved for the playoffs.

[O.city]

90 percent of NFL games are one score games in the 4th quarter. For everyone wanting the chiefs to just blow teams out, i agree. But it just doesn't happen across the league.

[chiefzilla1501]

90 percent of NFL games are one score games in the 4th quarter. For everyone wanting the chiefs to just blow teams out, i agree. But it just doesn't happen across the league.

Few teams have the offensive firepower to put teams away like we do. I get that defenses play worse when the opponent is pressed against the wall. It's just hard to explain how an offense as dominant as we are is so dominant in every single situation except for this one. The offense is extremely less productive and it's not hard to connect the dots on why.

[O.city]

Few teams have the offensive firepower to put teams away like we do. I get that defenses play worse when the opponent is pressed against the wall. It's just hard to explain how an offense as dominant as we are is so dominant in every single situation except for this one. The offense is extremely less productive and it's not hard to connect the dots on why.

Because the fastest way to let teams back in it is to throw picks and or give them short fields.

The majority of the time, getting a 2 score lead in the 2nd half and going conservative on offense, running it, quick throws etc and punting is successful.

Our defense has been ass so it's made it ass puckering time.

[chiefzilla1501]

Because the fastest way to let teams back in it is to throw picks and or give them short fields.

The majority of the time, getting a 2 score lead in the 2nd half and going conservative on offense, running it, quick throws etc and punting is successful.

Our defense has been ass so it's made it ass puckering time.

I get the rationale. It's a fine strategy if you have Alex Smith. But we have an mvp qb who doesn't throw a lot of picks and who plays a totally different style. And it's happened more than enough that teams have crept back into games they have no business climbing back into that it's time to re-evaluate the strategy.

If our offense has firepower in the first 3 quarters and in the 4th quarter in close games, no reason why they shouldn't also be consistently powerful in games where we're winning. Here's another perspective. We created so much fear in Baltimore of running up the score that they were desperately going after 4th downs and 2 point conversions. Sometimes an elite sprinters best option is to put the race out of reach vs saving their energy for the final dash for the finish. Desperate teams do desperate things. We could make a mistake OR we could score again and totally take the air out of our opponent. With our offense I'll take the second option.

[FAX]

https://twitter.com/610SportsKC/status/1196911172135661570

FAX

[chiefzilla1501]

Because the fastest way to let teams back in it is to throw picks and or give them short fields.

The majority of the time, getting a 2 score lead in the 2nd half and going conservative on offense, running it, quick throws etc and punting is successful.

Our defense has been ass so it's made it ass puckering time.

Also, don't think anyone's suggesting we throw the ball 40 yards in protect the lead situations. But go after first downs and attack the sticks. Is an INT too much different from 3-and-out? What if an INT is followed up by a TD on the next drive? Is a clock-stopping incompletion a big deal if the next pass is a first down completion that creates 3 new downs? This needs to be our new mentality.

[O.city]

Also, don't think anyone's suggesting we throw the ball 40 yards in protect the lead situations. But go after first downs and attack the sticks. Is an INT too much different from 3-and-out? What if an INT is followed up by a TD on the next drive? Is a clock-stopping incompletion a big deal if the next pass is a first down completion that creates 3 new downs? This needs to be our new mentality.

Well, there could be about 3 minutes in difference between an INT and a 3 and out.

They need to be better for sure.

But IMO, if you have a 2 score lead in the 4th quarter, you should win.

[chiefzilla1501]

Well, there could be about 3 minutes in difference between an INT and a 3 and out.

They need to be better for sure.

But IMO, if you have a 2 score lead in the 4th quarter, you should win.

Well, that's the downside risk. The upside risk is that you gain 40 seconds every time you get a first down (can gain up to 2 minutes if you convert on 3rd down) and you improve field position with every first down. We've thrown 2 INTs all season and 1/3 of our passes on a regular offense go incomplete. So you're downside risk isn't even that big. Not all offenses should go for the throat with passes. We should. It reduces risk of depending on defense and creates better chances to extend drives which burn clock.

Meanwhile, what's the upside risk of a run offense minus Kareem Hunt extending drives. Or our D protecting the lead if we don't add to our score. We don't have a consistent enough run O or 4th quarter D to be so dependent on this strategy.

[O.city]

Well, that's the downside risk. The upside risk is that you gain 40 seconds every time you get a first down (can gain up to 2 minutes if you convert on 3rd down) and you improve field position with every first down. We've thrown 2 INTs all season and 1/3 of our passes on a regular offense go incomplete. So you're downside risk isn't even that big. Not all offenses should go for the throat with passes. We should. It reduces risk of depending on defense and creates better chances to extend drives which burn clock.

Meanwhile, what's the upside risk of a run offense minus Kareem Hunt extending drives. Or our D protecting the lead if we don't add to our score. We don't have a consistent enough run O or 4th quarter D to be so dependent on this strategy.

I don't really disagree. But you're gonna have some pretty bad losses when shit goes wrong that way. Just have to deal with it i guess.

[suzzer99]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also not fun: In games that they should be about 75% likely to win, they&#39;ve won about half the time.<br><br>(<a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsAnalytics?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ChiefsAnalytics</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WichitaChiefSam?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WichitaChiefSam</a> Please check my work and also forgive me for stealing some of your paraphrasing.)</p>&mdash; Joshua Brisco (@jbbrisco) <a href="https://twitter.com/jbbrisco/status/1196892438222299136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Here you go. We run well below where we should when our WP is high (we have the lead).

[Hammock Parties]

this is a stupid stat that means nothing

[BigRedChief]

Shady was wide ****ing open here. This is a sizable gain, maybe for a first.

Mahomes missed.

BLAME. MAHOMES.

https://i.imgur.com/kj9M54y.pngSit Mahones. Start Moore!

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I said that earlier this season. Most seasons Andy starts the year on fire with creative plays and we abuse teams until they finally start to adjust and in a lot of cases, start copying Andy's plays. We didn't do that this year. I bet we have plays saved for the playoffs.

There’s certainly some things to hold back for that January scenario but I wouldn’t hesitate to use a lot of the good shit against NE the first time around. It’ll only build confidence (if they can win), and give other teams stuff to scramble about, trying to decipher how to counter it.

Plus, it could mean a bye.

[Chiefshrink]

Offensive line is the culprit. Can't run block when we need it the most and can't pass accurately when the o-line attempts to give Pat PTSD everytime he drops back. Pat did not look comfortable at all throughout the whole game last night IMHO. But it was nice to see him pull a couple of Alex Smith runs when needed.;)

[Megatron96]

I think we're being a little too hard on Andy and the offense concerning the last couple drives and the lack of points. Andy dialed up some good plays, but in one instance, Pat flat over-threw McCoy twice and the second resulted in McCoy's concussion. Not saying that was Pat's fault, just that they didn't work, and one of the results was losing our primary RB.

Another thing was the fact that we were playing at 30,000 ft. We knew this would be a problem for both our OL and DL towards the end of the game, and would probably result in some sloppy play. Which is certainly did.

Add in the fact that Fisher was obviously a little rusty and had a few bad plays, which allowed rushers to get inside of him, affecting the play a couple times.

But the whole OL showed signs of fatigue and shortness of breath on those last drives. And that Chargers DL is one of the better ones in the NFL. So we saw some porous pass pro, a couple flags, etc. Andy probably realized all of that, and dialed up plays that favored quick releases and more running, to protect his OL from having to over-exert themselves.

So I'm inclined to give Andy and the offense as a whole a bit of a pass for those last two drives. We don't have to play another game above 5,000 ft. so I think the OL will play better down the stretch.

And I'm very optimistic that Hill will be back for the Patriots, ditto McCoy and Damien, so I think we'll be in pretty good shape in a couple weeks.

[Hammock Parties]

just watched the 3rd quarter

the chiefs called that little rub route rollout to the sideline to kelce for a first down in the third quarter - to the right side of the field

they flipped the play and ran it to the left side of the field on their last offensive play

that's fairly uncreative for Reid and a pretty good sign that they had to throw their whole gameplan in the trash

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

I'm sitting in an airport on my phone and wish I had an easier way to look up the Mahomes injury thread and bump all the post how we should go to a short passing game and keep Pat healthy if he comes back early or sit him until after the bye. The Oline sucked last night, the field was miserable but many forgot what they wished for 3 weeks ago, let alone last week. The ignorance and flip flopping from some on here is pathetic...

[Hammock Parties]

I'm sitting in an airport on my phone and wish I had an easier way to look up the Mahomes injury thread and bump all the post how we should go to a short passing game and keep Pat healthy if he comes back early or sit him until after the buy. The Oline sucked last night, the field was miserable but many forgot what they wished for 3 weeks ago, let alone last week. The ignorance and flip flopping from some on here is pathetic...

Spot on.

For weeks it was ANDY ONLY THROW DEEP DURR

Now it's ANDY TOO CONSERVATIVE HURRRRR

bunch of fucking Goldilocks up in this bitch

[Hammock Parties]

it's like some of you don't watch other games

the patriots shitty offense almost fucked them over sunday against a mediocre team

defense had to close it out after THE GREAT NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS punted on SIX CONSECUTIVE POSSESSIONS

and that same Patriots offense....hasn't scored as many as 24 points (what we scored yesterday)....in a MONTH

their running backs are averaging 3.3 YPC.....shady and damien look like goddamn walter payton over here



the cardinals...the shitty goddamn CARDINALS...almost beat the 49ers



no team is perfect, every team has warts, except maybe the Ravens, and their QB is a mediocre passer who we CURRENTLY OWN



the chiefs are doing fine

just

fucking

FINE

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm sitting in an airport on my phone and wish I had an easier way to look up the Mahomes injury thread and bump all the post how we should go to a short passing game and keep Pat healthy if he comes back early or sit him until after the bye. The Oline sucked last night, the field was miserable but many forgot what they wished for 3 weeks ago, let alone last week. The ignorance and flip flopping from some on here is pathetic...

Nobody is saying fling the ball 40 yards downfield. There is a happy medium between playing not to lose and playing reckless.

[FloridaMan88]

Spot on.

For weeks it was ANDY ONLY THROW DEEP DURR

Now it's ANDY TOO CONSERVATIVE HURRRRR

bunch of ****ing Goldilocks up in this bitch

JFC you are beyond stupid.

Even your dumbshit former “employer” can recognize that Andy was too conservative at the end of the Chargers game.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In giving the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> an honest evaluation of the season to date and their <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SB54?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SB54</a> chase, it seems to me they are disinterested in the regular season. If HC Andy Reid, is going to remain on the sideline during the Mahomes era, injuries aside, he needs to go into full throttle mode!</p>&mdash; Chiefs Insider (@ChiefsInsider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsInsider/status/1196793070571937792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Hammock Parties]

except he wasn't

pressure and field conditions dictated playcalling

andy avoided disaster, the chargers ran headlong into it

HOF coach

[FloridaMan88]

except he wasn't

pressure and field conditions dictated playcalling

andy avoided disaster, the chargers ran headlong into it

HOF coach

Andy almost lost a second straight game when the Chiefs win probability was over 95% with less than 1:20 to play in the game.

[Chief Northman]

except he wasn't

pressure and field conditions dictated playcalling

andy avoided disaster, the chargers ran headlong into it

HOF coach

I was pissed watching last night thinking Andy went into another shell late in a game with a lead, but after watching again, I agree with some of your reasoning...

- The O-line was atrocious in both phases, especially the left side and Reiter. A reality of offensive line play is cohesion. This arrangement of players had not played together since week two, and two guys coming off of recent injuries did not look 100% physically. This obviously dictated some of the calls and specifically a game plan that resembled Alex Smith led offenses.

- I’m convinced Tyreek Hill was going to be a big part of the game plan last night against the Chargers, and when he went out so early in the game it took away a lot of the things that Andy wanted to do with the offense. After the interception, I also think they maybe did not trust the remainder of the receiving corps to be able to draw the coverages they were anticipating.

- While the Chiefs gave up a lot of yards last night, I think they felt comfortable with being able to prevent backbreaking plays in the passing game and they made timely stops in the run game to almost get the Chargers one dimensional later in the game. Moving forward, defensive deployment is going to be as important as scheme. Being thin at Defensive End challenged the team, but it was great that Frank Clark had his coming out party in a hugely important game.

- The win was no masterpiece. It was actually quite ugly. But these are the type of games that can galvanize a team. The defence came through and earned some credibility, as the highly touted offence sputtered. This is a sign that maybe this team is willing to play hard for one another. Hopefully they can block out the noise and put things all together at the right time.

[RunKC]

Andy WAS aggressive at the beginning of the game and how’d that turn out? The Chargers were ready for deep passes bc they knew Pat was going to do that shit. They baited him and played deep.

Also some of you just forgot that Fisher struggled. The guy is in his first game back in the highest altitude he’s ever played at against one of the best pass rushing duo’s in the league. You can’t be aggressive when a 4 man rush is getting heat on your QB consistently.

Andy adjusted and started destroying the fucks in the short middle of the field with Kelce. Again. And again. And again.

That screen play Clay showed was Andy adjusting AGAIN. Chargers were hell bent on taking away the middle of the field where Kelce was. Andy knew this. Andy also knew that we couldn’t go deep bc there was no time to develop the play due to the Chargers pass
Rush kicking our OL’s ass, so Andy did the next best thing.

That play had 3 verticals pushing the DB’s down field and Kelce in the middle occupying THREE Chargers. Seriously three Defenders all watched Kelce.

Andy tricked them into opening the outside for the RB flat. It was there both times.

[RunKC]

Andy almost lost a second straight game when the Chiefs win probability was over 95% with less than 1:20 to play in the game.

If anyone almost lost us the game last night, it was Honey Badger. Missing the easiest INT of the year lead to a TD that shouldn’t have happened.

He put them back in the game

[Chief Northman]

If anyone almost lost us the game last night, it was Honey Badger. Missing the easiest INT of the year lead to a TD that shouldn’t have happened.

He put them back in the game

Truth.

[dlphg9]

Losing Tyreek makes it impossible to stick to the game plan. Him being out also allows the other teams defense to man up our receivers. Our receivers cant consistently beat man coverage and when you have a line that can't block for that extra little bit of time it takes for our WRs to get open, then it makes the throwing it deep extremely risky. Throwing it deep in this situation is not very successful, since the throws have to be absolutely perfect or they are getting picked or batted down.

Andy tried his original game plan for the first half and realized it wasn't working, so he had to try something dofferent and luckily we have the best TE in the league and LBs and safeties can't cover him. Andy did what he had to do and at the end of the game he called the right plays, but those plays weren't properly executed.

Why does Andy get the blame because a pass was batted down or the ball was overthrown or dropped? He is then called conservative because these plays are fucked up by someone on the field. He calls the right things, but sometimes someone on offense messes up.

[Hammock Parties]

Andy almost lost a second straight game when the Chiefs win probability was over 95% with less than 1:20 to play in the game.

every game the NFL is an "almost" loss

the Pats punted six consecutive times

suck Reid's big fat balls, he came on your face

[Aspengc8]

Losing Tyreek makes it impossible to stick to the game plan. Him being out also allows the other teams defense to man up our receivers. Our receivers cant consistently beat man coverage and when you have a line that can't block for that extra little bit of time it takes for our WRs to get open, then it makes the throwing it deep extremely risky. Throwing it deep in this situation is not very successful, since the throws have to be absolutely perfect or they are getting picked or batted down.

Andy tried his original game plan for the first half and realized it wasn't working, so he had to try something dofferent and luckily we have the best TE in the league and LBs and safeties can't cover him. Andy did what he had to do and at the end of the game he called the right plays, but those plays weren't properly executed.

Why does Andy get the blame because a pass was batted down or the ball was overthrown or dropped? He is then called conservative because these plays are ****ed up by someone on the field. He calls the right things, but sometimes someone on offense messes up.

Sometimes Pat just misses reads too and sometimes you just tip your hat to the opponents defense. Pat missed an easy touchdown lob on that 3rd down run with 3:20 left in the game. The last 3-4 series were executed poorly for a combination of reasons. The screen to Shady could have been huge if Reiter got his ass out there in time. The Chargers played a shit-ton of 1 high safety and not once did Andy run any deep outs/comebacks to challenge the corners. The amount of half-sprint passing game they ran shows me they do NOT have much confidence in the oline being able to pass block 1v1. Andy loves to send 5 out to be able to pressure defenses both horizontally and vertically so you know something is up when he blocks 7 with a half-sprint.

[Three7s]

I've been as hard on Andy as anyone over the last month, but while he made some questionable calls like the 3rd & 6 screen pass, not all of the issues on offense were on Andy. So, for those of you who are upset about how Andy handled the 4th Q, what calls would you have made for the offense to more easily move the ball?

Remember, you have to take in to account the fact that the OL was trash, the field was awful, the thin air was affecting accuracy and timing a bit, and the players were probably a bit more tired than usual. It's just not that easy given the circumstances.

[chiefzilla1501]

Andy WAS aggressive at the beginning of the game and how’d that turn out? The Chargers were ready for deep passes bc they knew Pat was going to do that shit. They baited him and played deep.

Also some of you just forgot that Fisher struggled. The guy is in his first game back in the highest altitude he’s ever played at against one of the best pass rushing duo’s in the league. You can’t be aggressive when a 4 man rush is getting heat on your QB consistently.

Andy adjusted and started destroying the ****s in the short middle of the field with Kelce. Again. And again. And again.

That screen play Clay showed was Andy adjusting AGAIN. Chargers were hell bent on taking away the middle of the field where Kelce was. Andy knew this. Andy also knew that we couldn’t go deep bc there was no time to develop the play due to the Chargers pass
Rush kicking our OL’s ass, so Andy did the next best thing.

That play had 3 verticals pushing the DB’s down field and Kelce in the middle occupying THREE Chargers. Seriously three Defenders all watched Kelce.

Andy tricked them into opening the outside for the RB flat. It was there both times.

Aggressive doesn't just mean throwing 40 yard passes. The 3rd quarter was fine. That was what we felt our best adjustment was to score points. Our 4q wasn't meant to score points, it was to kill clock. it's not just this game in isolation. Reid consistently uses predictable runs, screens and throws the ball sideways. When we run vertical concepts mahomes takes the safe option. Maybe if we executed a few plays better it would have worked. But I still hate the approach.

Mahomes isn't at his best when he's playing safe. He almost looks tentative in ways he's not in every single other situations. Our offense no longer has the run game or run blockers to kill clock. Our D can't be trusted to consistently close out games. It's time we re-evaluate who we are as a 4q team. Screw killing clock. We should approach every 4q lead the same damn way we approach every other quarter.

[Hammock Parties]

the chiefs gameplan didnt change

they moved the ball down the field and scored twice with conservative throws for the most part, other than the deep corner to kelce

[Hammock Parties]

people on twitter talking about how the middle of the field was so torn up the chiefs didn't have any pass plays they could successfully run with confidence

this makes a TON of sense why almost every play they ran was going to the outside, apart from those sit down routes to kelce, and why they twice ran that rollout to the sideline, including in a crucial situation

[chiefzilla1501]

Josh Brisco has a great article on the Athletic. We are really bad when we have a high % chance of winning and really good when we have a low % chance.

I'd add to that mahomes being significantly worse when up 9 - 16 pts. On every single stat.

We are a different team when we have a lead. Maybe it's playcalling. Maybe it's mentality. Maybe something else. But it's something. Good field, bad field. Altitude, no altitude. We have mostly been consistently bad in these situations.

[FloridaMan88]

If anyone almost lost us the game last night, it was Honey Badger. Missing the easiest INT of the year lead to a TD that shouldn’t have happened.

He put them back in the game

The 95%+ win probability was after that Honey Badger point blank dropped INT.

[Hammock Parties]

middle of the field was trash

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ1QKkIXUAAsTyq?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Eleazar]

Turtleing up late in games is one of the main reasons why Andy Reid can't reliably beat the top teams in the league.

He's piled up a lot of regular season wins in his career, but beating the bottom 2/3 of the league like the Raiders, Chargers, Broncos, Jaguars, Lions etc is not (usually) a problem for Reid.

He has always been a high floor, low ceiling type of coach, and he will be until he changes. (20 years and counting)

We all speculated that maybe Reid could be a high ceiling coach if he had a good QB - well, now he's got the best QB in the NFL, and not much has changed.

[Eleazar]

Here is a polemic for you battered Chiefs fans: Head coaches should be ranked by average playoff wins per season coached.

If you run this analysis for everyone in history who coached more than 5 seasons and won at least 1 playoff game, you get a pretty solid list.


Rk Coach Yrs Wins SB Avg Plyoff Wins per Season

1 Bill Belichick 25 31 6 1.240
2 Joe Gibbs 16 17 3 1.063
3 Bill Walsh 10 10 3 1.000
4 Jimmy Johnson 9 9 2 1.000
5 George Seifert 11 10 2 0.909
6 John Madden 10 9 1 0.900
7 Vince Lombardi 10 9 2 0.900
8 John Harbaugh 12 10 1 0.833
9 Bill Cowher 15 12 1 0.800
10 Mike McCarthy 13 10 1 0.769
11 Mike Holmgren 17 13 1 0.765
12 Pete Carroll 14 10 1 0.714
13 Chuck Noll 23 16 4 0.696
14 Tony Dungy 13 9 1 0.692
15 Tom Landry 29 20 2 0.690
16 Tom Flores 12 8 2 0.667
17 Marv Levy 17 11 0 0.647
18 Mike Tomlin 13 8 1 0.615
19 Sean Payton 13 8 1 0.615
20 Tom Coughlin 20 12 2 0.600
21 Bill Parcells 19 11 2 0.579
22 Don Shula 33 19 2 0.576
23 Andy Reid 21 12 0 0.571


I feel like this works because you have to coach more than 5 years to be in the conversation, so coattail riders like Barry Switzer are out. From there you're measured only on how you produce in the playoffs.

[BigRedChief]

Josh Brisco has a great article on the Athletic. We are really bad when we have a high % chance of winning and really good when we have a low % chance.

I'd add to that mahomes being significantly worse when up 9 - 16 pts. On every single stat.

We are a different team when we have a lead. Maybe it's playcalling. Maybe it's mentality. Maybe something else. But it's something. Good field, bad field. Altitude, no altitude. We have mostly been consistently bad in these situations.yeah, I’d like to see an in-depth breakdown as to why it’s happening.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Did you watch the same game? They just didn't execute. It wasn't RRPP...

[notorious]

Josh Brisco has a great article on the Athletic. We are really bad when we have a high % chance of winning and really good when we have a low % chance.

I'd add to that mahomes being significantly worse when up 9 - 16 pts. On every single stat.

We are a different team when we have a lead. Maybe it's playcalling. Maybe it's mentality. Maybe something else. But it's something. Good field, bad field. Altitude, no altitude. We have mostly been consistently bad in these situations.


I can’t believe people can still wear blind homer glasses after all we’ve seen.

It’s great to support the Chiefs, and to cheer for them. Don’t lie to yourself or to others when defending Reid’s team tendencies. They are WELL documented.

[O.city]

https://twitter.com/d_harms19/status/1197709302921924614?s=21

There’s the last 3rd down. Kelce picks it up if hardman just gets in the dbs way