Chiefs offensive struggles

[O.city]

Last 2 weeks have been pretty shitty on offense. Sure they scored yesterday, but that's against the shitbird Raiders and the Chiefs looked shitty doing it.

Mahomes doesn't look right to my eye. Anyone else notice he seemed to be laboring to even get back to hand the ball off at times? Is he still hurt?

He looks skiddish in the pocket (with the interior OL I guess I get it) but the Chiefs can't win in the playoffs without him being his normal self.

What's everyone's thoughts on whats going on? Am I just seeing shit?

[ptlyon]

You sure have a lot to bitch about lately. Next Monday will be a real treat.

[TambaBerry]

just seeing shit, mahomes looks fine a lot of the passing problems yesterday was the crazy wind. He good

[MahiMike]

No he's right and I said the same thing last game. He's off this year, missing high on the easy swing passes too. Williams made a great catch to score.

The skittish part is the scariest thing. I don't want to see him running backwards to throw every time. He has to step into the throw more.

[O.city]

Maybe I am. Wouldn't be the first time.

He just seems to be drifting backwards out of pockets.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Patrick was moving better yesterday than he has in awhile.

Conditions limited some of what they can do downfield it looked like. Offensive line has to be better protecting him, hopefully that comes along as they get more reps together.

[O.city]

No he's right and I said the same thing last game. He's off this year, missing high on the easy swing passes too. Williams made a great catch to score.

The skittish part is the scariest thing. I don't want to see him running backwards to throw every time. He has to step into the throw more.

It makes it tougher on the tackles if he's backing out of pockets.

[Simply Red]

Last 2 weeks have been pretty shitty on offense. Sure they scored yesterday, but that's against the shitbird Raiders and the Chiefs looked shitty doing it.

Mahomes doesn't look right to my eye. Anyone else notice he seemed to be laboring to even get back to hand the ball off at times? Is he still hurt?

He looks skiddish in the pocket (with the interior OL I guess I get it) but the Chiefs can't win in the playoffs without him being his normal self.

What's everyone's thoughts on whats going on? Am I just seeing shit?

My thoughts are: Wind gusts atop 32 degree weather could be part of it.

[rabblerouser]

just seeing shit, mahomes looks fine a lot of the passing problems yesterday was the crazy wind. He good

This

Everyone needs to shut the fuck up.

[O.city]

The wind definitely played a part, I will agree on that.

But he needs to stay in clean pockets more.

[comochiefsfan]

It’s not just you.

Something is definitely wrong with Pat and the offense in general.

I suspect that a lot of it has to do with the ineffectiveness of the offensive line, but until we can figure something out we will struggle to win games against good teams.

[TwistedChief]

This

Everyone needs to shut the fuck up.

I love how you go from hater to cheerleader in 24hrs.

Never change, bae.

[O.city]

I also think a part of it is that they've been so injured on offense they haven't spent a lot of times playing together.

[dj56dt58]

We aren't going downfield near as much as last year it seems..We should be taking at least 2 or 3 deep shots to Tyreek every week. When we do go deep they seem to be overthrown

[Marcellus]

It makes it tougher on the tackles if he's backing out of pockets.

Why is that?

[O.city]

The timing just seems weirdly off. I dunno.

He's missed some throws to Kelce, Watkins is a walking injury and it's just all been off.

[comochiefsfan]

We aren't going downfield near as much as last year it seems..We should be taking at least 2 or 3 deep shots to Tyreek every week. When we do go deep they seem to be overthrown

Pat’s deep ball accuracy is the worst part of his game which unfortunately neutralizes his arm strength a bit.

[rabblerouser]

Only on Chiefs Planet could a 40-9 victory be decried as a "shitty day on offense".

The wind was gusting 50mph. Shut the fuck up.

[KChiefs1]

The timing just seems weirdly off. I dunno.

He's missed some throws to Kelce, Watkins is a walking injury and it's just all been off.


Kelce dropped a couple too.

[rabblerouser]

Pat’s deep ball accuracy is the worst part of his game which unfortunately neutralizes his arm strength a bit.

That's not true at all.

[O.city]

Why is that?

Tackles are taught to push guys around the back of the pocket. If the QB drops too far, the tackle doesn't know where he's at and he gets sacked by a guy the tackle pushed behind.

A lot of sacks are on the QB because they drop to deep.

[comochiefsfan]

The timing just seems weirdly off. I dunno.

He's missed some throws to Kelce, Watkins is a walking injury and it's just all been off.

That aura of invincibility is gone and Pat doesn’t seem sure of himself.

I blame Andy Heck and his bumbling crew of idiots for allowing doubt to creep into his mind about whether or not he’s going to get his leg snapped in half each time he drops back.

[rabblerouser]

Kelce dropped a couple too.

So did Watkins. It happens.

[Hammock Parties]

Playing conditions are the biggest factor.

[The Franchise]

So did Watkins. It happens.

I’ve had enough of Watkins. He plays like he doesn’t give a shit anymore. He doesn’t attack the ball like he has in the past.

[Marcellus]

Tackles are taught to push guys around the back of the pocket. If the QB drops too far, the tackle doesn't know where he's at and he gets sacked by a guy the tackle pushed behind.

A lot of sacks are on the QB because they drop to deep.

This would make sense if Pat had been sacked more than 1 time and isn't one of the least sacked QB's in football.

Here is something worth looking at, its the drive summaries. Chiefs started with the ball in great field position most of the game which limited yardage.

We punted 2 times and turned ball over on downs 1 time when we couldn't get 2 yards on 2 run attempts.

It was just a weird game, Kelce had 3 drops earlier that would have changed numbers significantly. I'm not saying they played like a well oiled machine but given the situations and weather, they still dropped 31 on them on offense.

https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2019120105/2019/REG13/raiders@chiefs?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2019120105

[rabblerouser]

Playing conditions are the biggest factor.

Exactly. They played their most complete game of the season yesterday. All 3 phases. In 50 mph wind.

[rabblerouser]

I’ve had enough of Watkins. He plays like he doesn’t give a shit anymore. He doesn’t attack the ball like he has in the past.

Ok.

[rabblerouser]

This would make sense if Pat had been sacked more than 1 time and isn't one of the least sacked QB's in football.

Here is something worth looking at, its the drive summaries. Chiefs started with the ball in great field position most of the game which limited yardage.

We punted 2 times and turned ball over on downs 1 time when we couldn't get 2 yards on 2 run attempts.

It was just a weird game, Kelce had 3 drops earlier that would have changed numbers significantly. I'm not saying they played like a well oiled machine but given the situations and weather, they still dropped 31 on them on offense.

https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2019120105/2019/REG13/raiders@chiefs?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2019120105

All of this.

[RunKC]

Interior OL has not been good and it’s been ruining plays. Can’t set up long developing verticals when the OL gives you no time

[Marcellus]

Interior OL has not been good and it’s been ruining plays. Can’t set up long developing verticals when the OL gives you no time

I do wonder why Wiz isn't starting at LG.

[Aspengc8]

Interior OL has not been good and it’s been ruining plays. Can’t set up long developing verticals when the OL gives you no time

Yes you can. Keep guy(s) in to help. Andy has a fetish for sending 5 out. This is not the oline to rely on 1v1's.

[MahomesMagic]

Mahomes had 2 TD's removed in the Kelce drop in the endzone and the phantom holding call that took the Robinson TD off the board.

I think he was a little off but the gusting winds didn't help.

[staylor26]

Two weeks ago we played on an absolutely shit field (also without Tyreek) and this week we played in windy/cold conditions.

[Gravedigger]

It's gone back to the Alex Smith style of playcalling. Whether that's injury related, coaching, or the lack of WR's getting open as much, I'm not sure.

[lcarus]

The throw Mahomes made that the defender dropped was the worst throw I've seen him make in a while. Shit happens. When you're a gunslinging assassin you're occasionally gonna kill a few women and children that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[BigBeauford]

Poor Interior Oline play.
Ineffective Run Game making it easier to defend the pass.

[chiefzilla1501]

The wind definitely played a part, I will agree on that.

But he needs to stay in clean pockets more.

Actually what I saw yesterday was encouraging. Reid moved him around the pocket a bit more yesterday. There was one where I actually saw him burst a bit. He sailed the throw but seems the off platform shit was off all day because of the wind. He's been confined to a pocket offense most of the year. Which is good but where the magic happens is when he starts moving around. I saw him take shots yesterday I haven't seen for some time. In good weather he would have been a highlight reel yesterday.

Also... He looked like he was having fun yesterday. Haven't seen that for a while.

[O.city]

This would make sense if Pat had been sacked more than 1 time and isn't one of the least sacked QB's in football.

Here is something worth looking at, its the drive summaries. Chiefs started with the ball in great field position most of the game which limited yardage.

We punted 2 times and turned ball over on downs 1 time when we couldn't get 2 yards on 2 run attempts.

It was just a weird game, Kelce had 3 drops earlier that would have changed numbers significantly. I'm not saying they played like a well oiled machine but given the situations and weather, they still dropped 31 on them on offense.

https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2019120105/2019/REG13/raiders@chiefs?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2019120105

It's not just the sacks, it causes him to leave the pocket. He needs to step up and make plays in there. Now, I think he feels uncomfortable because of the interior OL play.

[chiefzilla1501]

The throw Mahomes made that the defender dropped was the worst throw I've seen him make in a while. Shit happens. When you're a gunslinging assassin you're occasionally gonna kill a few women and children that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Don't know about that. Seemed like an OK read. But shows how bad the conditions are. Mahomes has a strong arm but off platform he's not going to get that ball there with that wind.

[O.city]

Actually what I saw yesterday was encouraging. Reid moved him around the pocket a bit more yesterday. There was one where I actually saw him burst a bit. He sailed the throw but seems the off platform shit was off all day because of the wind. He's been confined to a pocket offense most of the year. Which is good but where the magic happens is when he starts moving around. I saw him take shots yesterday I haven't seen for some time. In good weather he would have been a highlight reel yesterday.

Also... He looked like he was having fun yesterday. Haven't seen that for a while.

I don't think Reid moved him more than usual, Pat left some pockets he shouldn't have.

The wind definitely played a part, but they've gotta be better to do anything going forward.

[O.city]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patrick Mahomes passing chart versus the Raiders per Next Gen Stats. <a href="https://t.co/enJijNFcgx">pic.twitter.com/enJijNFcgx</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1201534997477384194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's probably the fewest throws between 10-20 in a game he's ever played here. I'm thinking conditions definitely played a part there. That makes a lot of sense.

[O.city]

Two weeks ago we played on an absolutely shit field (also without Tyreek) and this week we played in windy/cold conditions.

Not wrong.

Only issue is, in January, you aren't likely to play in perfect conditions.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Not wrong.

Only issue is, in January, you aren't likely to play in perfect conditions.

Wind is the thing you want less than anything I’d say. We saw them do pretty well in snow last year.

[O.city]

Wind is the thing you want less than anything I’d say. We saw them do pretty well in snow last year.

Not really. They had a good start, then went into a shell for a while.

[Chief Northman]

This place has become Homer Planet. Not too long ago, people were driven off of this forum for such attitudes.

If people can't be critical about the team they root for, then why bother being a fan if it is just a love-in? - one will ultimately be let down.

I am pleased that the defense has stepped up and won some games this season. They are slowly but surely gaining confidence. The 4th quarter offensive play-calling yesterday was on point in finishing out a game. Special teams had a strong showing and team DISCIPLINE was phenomenal.

However, the Chiefs need to persist at shoring up their weaknesses, and the franchise QB is not immune from criticism here. WTF was that cross-body pass to the middle of the field that should have been picked? His footwork is a mess, and he has the yips at times, throwing too early when he indeed has pocket protection. Yes, the interior O-line is sub-par, and there is not enough movement in the run game to find an effective balance, but from the outside looking in, it is as if there is not total buy-in to the offensive game plan by the players. Teams are taking away the deep stuff, and if Hill or Kelce get extra attention, the other receivers and backs are struggling to make plays.

I think it was rabblerouser who pointed out the formation and run calls that the Chiefs used with Thompson in the game - when Sherman and Bell are on the field, there are generally positive gains made in the run game and no "negative' plays. the RPO game is ok in doses, but teams are on to that league wide. It was good to see the change up in this regard, and it will be necessary for this team to overcome some of its flaws.....

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Not really. They had a good start, then went into a shell for a while.

You described every blowout win since Andy Reid got here pretty much

[rabblerouser]

The throw Mahomes made that the defender dropped was the worst throw I've seen him make in a while. Shit happens. When you're a gunslinging assassin you're occasionally gonna kill a few women and children that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The one the wind caught.

[The Franchise]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patrick Mahomes passing chart versus the Raiders per Next Gen Stats. <a href="https://t.co/enJijNFcgx">pic.twitter.com/enJijNFcgx</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1201534997477384194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's probably the fewest throws between 10-20 in a game he's ever played here. I'm thinking conditions definitely played a part there. That makes a lot of sense.

Go back and look at that cross the field attempt to Watkins that almost got picked. The wind caused that ball to drop drastically. The wind seriously hampered our offense. Reid found a way to keep the offense moving. It just wasn’t at the historic pace like last season.

[O.city]

Go back and look at that cross the field attempt to Watkins that almost got picked. The wind caused that ball to drop drastically. The wind seriously hampered our offense. Reid found a way to keep the offense moving. It just wasn’t at the historic pace like last season.

They havent' been at that pace much this whole season though. I suppose regression to the mean is a real thing though and you shouldn't count on being historic from year to year for sure.

Talked to a buddy at the game, the wind definitely played a factor. I'm an idiot I guess.

[rabblerouser]

I think it was rabblerouser who pointed out the formation and run calls that the Chiefs used with Thompson in the game - when Sherman and Bell are on the field, there are generally positive gains made in the run game and no "negative' plays. the RPO game is ok in doses, but teams are on to that league wide. It was good to see the change up in this regard, and it will be necessary for this team to overcome some of its flaws.....

100% - and if we noticed it, I'm sure Belichick did, as well. I just hope Beiniemy pushes for more of it; as a former running back, I'm surprised it took this long for it to get implemented.

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't think Reid moved him more than usual, Pat left some pockets he shouldn't have.

The wind definitely played a part, but they've gotta be better to do anything going forward.

Flashed it. Saw a free designed rollouts and a few more RPOs where mahomes was taking the run. There was one scramble drill in particular where I saw him burst into the throw like I haven't seen him in a while. I really wonder if we saw so much less when it became clear how bad the wind was. Even kelce looked like he had no clue how to catch even the simple ones. That wind looked like a total killer.

I agree the offense and mahomes has to be much better. But I saw some things yesterday that made me feel like in better weather, we might have seen a fireworks show.

[staylor26]

This place has become Homer Planet. Not too long ago, people were driven off of this forum for such attitudes.

If people can't be critical about the team they root for, then why bother being a fan if it is just a love-in? - one will ultimately be let down.

I am pleased that the defense has stepped up and won some games this season. They are slowly but surely gaining confidence. The 4th quarter offensive play-calling yesterday was on point in finishing out a game. Special teams had a strong showing and team DISCIPLINE was phenomenal.

However, the Chiefs need to persist at shoring up their weaknesses, and the franchise QB is not immune from criticism here. WTF was that cross-body pass to the middle of the field that should have been picked? His footwork is a mess, and he has the yips at times, throwing too early when he indeed has pocket protection. Yes, the interior O-line is sub-par, and there is not enough movement in the run game to find an effective balance, but from the outside looking in, it is as if there is not total buy-in to the offensive game plan by the players. Teams are taking away the deep stuff, and if Hill or Kelce get extra attention, the other receivers and backs are struggling to make plays.

I think it was rabblerouser who pointed out the formation and run calls that the Chiefs used with Thompson in the game - when Sherman and Bell are on the field, there are generally positive gains made in the run game and no "negative' plays. the RPO game is ok in doses, but teams are on to that league wide. It was good to see the change up in this regard, and it will be necessary for this team to overcome some of its flaws.....

Oh shut the fuck up already with this homer shit it’s the same thing you were just doing when people simply suggested giving Darwin a shot and expressed optimism about the young RB.

Looks like the “homers” were right that he deserved and opportunity, and I don’t see how suggesting that field/weather conditions have had a negative impact on the Chiefs passing game the last couple games makes you a “homer”. It’s an obvious observation.

[RunKC]

They havent' been at that pace much this whole season though. I suppose regression to the mean is a real thing though and you shouldn't count on being historic from year to year for sure.

Talked to a buddy at the game, the wind definitely played a factor. I'm an idiot I guess.

Saw an interesting stat last week. Before yesterday’s game, Mahomes and Tyreek had only been on the field at the same for 19% of the offenses total snaps this season.

Injuries have played a big part this year unfortunately

[MahiMike]

It's gone back to the Alex Smith style of playcalling. Whether that's injury related, coaching, or the lack of WR's getting open as much, I'm not sure.

I see this as a good thing. At least to start the game. Teams are taking away the big play so we need to be able to do the underneath stuff too. Combine that with letting Pat keep it on the RPO and we can get a couple TDs then take some shots.

[O.city]

They also had quite a few drives yesterday that were extended because of Raider penalties.

[notorious]

Maybe I am. Wouldn't be the first time.

He just seems to be drifting backwards out of pockets.

You aren’t seeing things. Our line sucks and he’s running for his life.

[OKchiefs]

You aren’t seeing things. Our line sucks and he’s running for his life.

Another indictment on Veach and Reid for continually ignoring the interior OL and OL deptth at OT.

[CaliforniaChief]

I was really encouraged by the "Darwin Drive" in the 4th quarter. The Raiders knew we were running and couldn't stop it. That will be HUGE later.

Also, last year's defense required an historic offense. This year's will require a good one, which we have. If the key players stay healthy, I think we'll be fine.

[Red Beans]

The throw Mahomes made that the defender dropped was the worst throw I've seen him make in a while. Shit happens. When you're a gunslinging assassin you're occasionally gonna kill a few women and children that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It was a dangerous throw to be sure, but being at the game, had he not been throwing it into the wind he had a good chance of making some chicken salad out of that one.

[staylor26]

Another indictment on Veach and Reid for continually ignoring the interior OL and OL deptth at OT.

Oh go fuck yourself. It was corner you complained about constantly for 2 years now you’ve moved on to bitching about Veach failing to fill other holes without EVER acknowledging that he’s done a pretty good job at corner despite all your bitching.

News flash: every team has holes you buttfucking moron. If having holes mean you failed as a GM in the offseason then no GM is ever successful (even the one that wins a SB).

[DJ's left nut]

Maybe I am. Wouldn't be the first time.

He just seems to be drifting backwards out of pockets.

I have noticed that a bit lately.

He's not stepping into his throws as often. Granted, I think we're maybe assigning a cause here that doesn't really exist. He's kinda ALWAYS done that and we simply didn't take note of it when those were hitting guys in space.

Now he's missing a bit more. Now the altitude and wind are viable excuses because I think his game against the Titans was as well as he's ever played. And I don't think he's doing anything now that he wasn't doing in that game.

Remember a few years ago when folks were ragging on Rodgers for his 'bad mechanics' that season where he just wasn't quite right? His mechanics were no different than they'd ever been, he just wasn't quite in sync for some odd reason. His WRs were poor, his line play was average. Things were just a bit off. People wanted to cite his bad mechanics but they aren't exactly bad, they're just unconventional and they've always worked for him.

That's probably what we're seeing with Mahomes. We're looking for ghosts because there's no arguing that the passing game has been a bit out of sorts lately. But it's probably not a mechanics issue.

Oh, and Sammy Watkins can eat a bag of dicks. Man that guy's useless. If I'm looking for a cause of the offensive scuffles that is something beyond outside circumstances, it's Watkins and the run game. With the interior line in tatters and no dynamic RB to turn to, we simply suck at running the football. And with Watkins not contributing ANYTHING, we're effectively relying on Hill and Kelce for 90% of our offense. That's asking a lot.

[O.city]

I will say they fucked up a bit with Reiter. I wasn't ever really comfortable with him as the starter.

Theres only so much you can do, at some point, you've gotta develop and coach up some dudes.

[O.city]

I have noticed that a bit lately.

He's not stepping into his throws as often. Granted, I think we're maybe assigning a cause here that doesn't really exist. He's kinda ALWAYS done that and we simply didn't take note of it when those were hitting guys in space.

Now he's missing a bit more. Now the altitude and wind are viable excuses because I think his game against the Titans was as well as he's ever played. And I don't think he's doing anything now that he wasn't doing in that game.

Remember a few years ago when folks were ragging on Rodgers for his 'bad mechanics' that season where he just wasn't quite right? His mechanics were no different than they'd ever been, he just wasn't quite in sync for some odd reason. His WRs were poor, his line play was average. Things were just a bit off. People wanted to cite his bad mechanics but they aren't exactly bad, they're just unconventional and they've always worked for him.

That's probably what we're seeing with Mahomes. We're looking for ghosts because there's no arguing that the passing game has been a bit out of sorts lately. But it's probably not a mechanics issue.

Oh, and Sammy Watkins can eat a bag of dicks. Man that guy's useless. If I'm looking for a cause of the offensive scuffles that is something beyond outside circumstances, it's Watkins and the run game. With the interior line in tatters and no dynamic RB to turn to, we simply suck at running the football. And with Watkins not contributing ANYTHING, we're effectively relying on Hill and Kelce for 90% of our offense. That's asking a lot.

Yeah, Watkins just looks like ass. Even worse, he looks like lackadaisical ass.

He doesn't get the targets that Hill and Kelce get, so it looks like he pouts and just turns it in. Granted, when they get the ball in his hands, he's pretty effective.

Kinda comes back to Mahomes a bit. Sometimes you've gotta get those dudes the ball early to keep them engaged.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

I imagine that the Chiefs were relatively vanilla on play calling on the offensive side of the ball. Don't want to give the Pats too much on tape as I'm sure they have some stuff that they've been saving for the Pats.


At least that is my hope as to why the offense has been so meh last two games. Also, it would help if our running game can do flipping anything

[O.city]

There are certain games where it's pretty obvious early that as long as you don't royally fuck up and throw a pick 6 or something, you're gonna win.

That was pretty obvious yesterday. Once they were up 14-0, all they had to do was stack the box and not make egregious mistakes on offense and they'd win.

Kinda what they need to do in NE.

[cooper barrett]

You think an orthopedic doc told him that if he re-injures it, it could be season or worse. Would you tip toe for while. Mahomes wants to win, but
he's not stupid.

Last 2 weeks have been pretty shitty on offense. Sure they scored yesterday, but that's against the shitbird Raiders and the Chiefs looked shitty doing it.

Mahomes doesn't look right to my eye. Anyone else notice he seemed to be laboring to even get back to hand the ball off at times? Is he still hurt?

He looks skiddish in the pocket (with the interior OL I guess I get it) but the Chiefs can't win in the playoffs without him being his normal self.

What's everyone's thoughts on whats going on? Am I just seeing shit?

[DJ's left nut]

We aren't going downfield near as much as last year it seems..We should be taking at least 2 or 3 deep shots to Tyreek every week. When we do go deep they seem to be overthrown

What was really strange was the number of single-high looks we were getting that we weren't attacking.

I get it - the wind was hellish. But Mahomes on 18-25 yard crossers can drive a ball through the wind. Dude has the best arm in the league and if you're getting single coverage out wide, why aren't you doing a little more to attack those deep seems?

The touch passes like the one he tried to throw to Kelce are going to be hell in those conditions and I get that. But there shouldn't have been as much of an issue on those bullets he can throw in the intermediate ranges. I wonder if more of those single-high man looks that I was seeing weren't disguised zones or something that I wasn't noticing in real time. It just seemed like he had more possible 'shot plays' that he could've muscled into windows that he just didn't look for.

It happens - teams get out of sync sometimes and there's little cause to believe it will continue. But they absolutely have to get something out of Watkins or find a miracle in Thompson because they can't put up 24+ points with regularity playing a 3-man offense.

[O.city]

Thompson might have something. I don't know and wont really get my hopes up on it, but he looked fresh yesterday.

[FloridaMan88]

It is a combination of factors... weather conditions specific to yesterday's game, offensive line struggles, opposing defenses focusing on taking away the deep passing game, and dropped passes.

I think Andy should utilize with greater frequency the short/intermediate passing game to the WR's. It seems like other than a few short passing plays/slants to Tyreek yesterday (which were pretty much all successful), that hasn't been a consistent part of the Chiefs offense recently.

[The Franchise]

You think an orthopedic doc told him that if he re-injures it, it could be season or worse. Would you tip toe for while. Mahomes wants to win, but
he's not stupid.

You mean the same guy that sprinted for the endzone on his run and looked just fine? Yeah I’m sure he’s holding back.

[dirk digler]

IMVHO besides the shitty OL play of a late as Romo was pointing out yesterday teams don't respect our running game so defenses are dropping back.

Don't know if there is a viable older RB available right now but they need to improve that position drastically. I do hope Darwin is the starter though he looked good late.

[O.city]

It is a combination of factors... weather conditions specific to yesterday's game, offensive line struggles, opposing defenses focusing on taking away the deep passing game, and dropped passes.

I think Andy should utilize with greater frequency the short/intermediate passing game to the WR's. It seems like other than a few short passing plays/slants to Tyreek yesterday (which were pretty much all successful), that hasn't been a consistent part of the Chiefs offense recently.

For sure. Get Sammy the ball in those intermediate areas as well also.

[The Franchise]

It is a combination of factors... weather conditions specific to yesterday's game, offensive line struggles, opposing defenses focusing on taking away the deep passing game, and dropped passes.

I think Andy should utilize with greater frequency the short/intermediate passing game to the WR's. It seems like other than a few short passing plays/slants to Tyreek yesterday (which were pretty much all successful), that hasn't been a consistent part of the Chiefs offense recently.

AND WHERE THE FUCK IS THE MISDIRECTION?

I’m going to bring this shit up every week where we don’t use it. It’s part of why are run game worked last year. We have guys in Hill and Hardman that can do it well. Bring that shit back, Andy.

[O.city]

IMVHO besides the shitty OL play of a late as Romo was pointing out yesterday teams don't respect our running game so defenses are dropping back.

Don't know if there is a viable older RB available right now but they need to improve that position drastically. I do hope Darwin is the starter though he looked good late.

That's true.

When a team can stop the run with 6 in the box, theres not a lot you can do throwing it.

[O.city]

AND WHERE THE **** IS THE MISDIRECTION?

I’m going to bring this shit up every week where we don’t use it. It’s part of why are run game worked last year. We have guys in Hill and Hardman that can do it well. Bring that shit back, Andy.

When they did it yesterday, it worked well.

They aren't a power football team. Stop trying to be.

[DJ's left nut]

Thompson might have something. I don't know and wont really get my hopes up on it, but he looked fresh yesterday.

It's really strange seeing our RBs running tentatively as often as they do.

Damien, when he was 'right' for a few weeks there, was running HARD even when there weren't a lot of holes to hit. Thompson looked to be running hard. It flashes on the screen (field) when the RBs actually come to play.

But all too often they seem to have accepted that they're largely an afterthought and they seem to play like it. Maybe that's just the way Shady runs so I don't give him much slack (Bell ran like that as well; very deliberate). But guys like Damien, Darrel and Thompson need to getting downhill, IMO. And all too often you can tell that they aren't really focused on doing that.

If Thompson will do so consistently, maybe we'll find something. But I think the bottom line is that the 11 personnel simply won't work in the run game when our IOL sucks this badly. You can't ask a RB to do much work without a lead blocker when the interior line is collapsing. That eliminated cutback lanes and obviously kills the possibility of any holes in the middle. You can't even really bounce outside on those because the damn DL is in your lap before you can change directions.

Without effective IOL play, they need a FB for an effective inside run game. And the FB on the field will largely telegraph our playcalling. It's just a rough situation the Chiefs find themselves in w/r/t to running the football.

[O.city]

It's really strange seeing our RBs running tentatively as often as they do.

Damien, when he was 'right' for a few weeks there, was running HARD even when there weren't a lot of holes to hit. Thompson looked to be running hard. It flashes on the screen (field) when the RBs actually come to play.

But all too often they seem to have accepted that they're largely an afterthought and they seem to play like it. Maybe that's just the way Shady runs so I don't give him much slack (Bell ran like that as well; very deliberate). But guys like Damien, Darrel and Thompson need to getting downhill, IMO. And all too often you can tell that they aren't really focused on doing that.

If Thompson will do so consistently, maybe we'll find something. But I think the bottom line is that the 11 personnel simply won't work in the run game when our IOL sucks this badly. You can't ask a RB to do much work without a lead blocker when the interior line is collapsing. That eliminated cutback lanes and obviously kills the possibility of any holes in the middle. You can't even really bounce outside on those because the damn DL is in your lap before you can change directions.

Without effective IOL play, they need a FB for an effective inside run game. And the FB on the field will largely telegraph our playcalling. It's just a rough situation the Chiefs find themselves in w/r/t to running the football.

With some of the weapons we have, we should be able to still throw it out of 11 with a fullback. Max protect and let Hill and Sammy (ugh) run routes.

[bobbything]

The offense scored 31 points yesterday in 40 mph winds. No, it wasn't pretty. But 31 points is 31 points.

If anything concerns me about the offense it's the line's inability to give Mahomes enough consistent time to look downfield. That has been a bit of an issue all season. Much moreso than last year.

[DJ's left nut]

IMVHO besides the shitty OL play of a late as Romo was pointing out yesterday teams don't respect our running game so defenses are dropping back.

Don't know if there is a viable older RB available right now but they need to improve that position drastically. I do hope Darwin is the starter though he looked good late.

Yeah, you could see pretty clearly from the stands. Their safeties were never concerned with crashing the LOS. They were in their backpedal almost from the snap.

It takes away a massive advantage because the speed in this WR corps is so dangerous when you can get them into space. But you struggle to find space when there are 5-6 guys back there every time. And when the OL isn't holding strong enough to let downfield routes develop, it makes it even harder to find separation in those crowded situations.

I think it's the natural progression of some of the struggles we've had in the red zone this year. When we can't make teams respect the run game and pull some safeties/LBs out of those intermediate areas, we just struggle to find space. And when our WRs aren't physical guys who will screen guys off and rip balls away in traffic, it's makes things even tougher.

[smithandrew051]

I’m more convinced than ever that Reid is saving the creativity for the postseason.

I think the postseason begins this week now that the division is all but over.

I really believe that 12-4 will get us the 2 seed when you consider how NE is looking lately.

If we land the 2 seed, we’re back to Super Bowl or bust. The playoffs start this week.

[DJ's left nut]

AND WHERE THE FUCK IS THE MISDIRECTION?

I’m going to bring this shit up every week where we don’t use it. It’s part of why are run game worked last year. We have guys in Hill and Hardman that can do it well. Bring that shit back, Andy.

Hardman had at least one nice run and Hill got tattooed on another. It isn't that we don't use them, but they're on teams radars and once again, teams don't respect our ability to run between the tackles so they aren't crashing down anyway, so what good is misdirection?

The TD to McCoy was a clever little fake trap (I think) and the toss out wide to Shady for the walk-in touchdown. We'll want to have that play in reserve for occasional use. But again - gotta make them respect the inside runs a little more for even a play that like that to remain effective.

[O.city]

Hardman had at least one nice run and Hill got tattooed on another. It isn't that we don't use them, but they're on teams radars and once again, teams don't respect our ability to run between the tackles so they aren't crashing down anyway, so what good is misdirection?

The TD to McCoy was a clever little fake trap (I think) and the toss out wide to Shady for the walk-in touchdown. We'll want to have that play in reserve for occasional use. But again - gotta make them respect the inside runs a little more for even a play that like that to remain effective.

Some of the stuff with the run game isnt' all on the OL though. The RB's just don't do much. Shady has the vision, but can't get to the hole anymore, and Darrell just ducks his head and goes forward.

I'm about as anti RB as anyone, but they need to invest in it and the interior OL.

[dirk digler]

Yeah, you could see pretty clearly from the stands. Their safeties were never concerned with crashing the LOS. They were in their backpedal almost from the snap.

It takes away a massive advantage because the speed in this WR corps is so dangerous when you can get them into space. But you struggle to find space when there are 5-6 guys back there every time. And when the OL isn't holding strong enough to let downfield routes develop, it makes it even harder to find separation in those crowded situations.

I think it's the natural progression of some of the struggles we've had in the red zone this year. When we can't make teams respect the run game and pull some safeties/LBs out of those intermediate areas, we just struggle to find space. And when our WRs aren't physical guys who will screen guys off and rip balls away in traffic, it's makes things even tougher.

Some of the stuff with the run game isnt' all on the OL though. The RB's just don't do much. Shady has the vision, but can't get to the hole anymore, and Darrell just ducks his head and goes forward.

I'm about as anti RB as anyone, but they need to invest in it and the interior OL.


I agree with both of you. We really need a good RB to pair with Mahomes and I think you would see his stats go back to what they were last year.

[DJ's left nut]

Some of the stuff with the run game isnt' all on the OL though. The RB's just don't do much. Shady has the vision, but can't get to the hole anymore, and Darrell just ducks his head and goes forward.

I'm about as anti RB as anyone, but they need to invest in it and the interior OL.

I agree. But there isn't the depth of starting quality talent on the roster to get tunnel vision.

We need upgrades at LB (across the board), IOL, RB and at least a supplemental talent at WR.

And you're looking at spending picks on the first 2 days to get probable contributors at those spots out of the chute. For as much as we devalue RBs, there AREN'T a lot of 4th round runners that are making noise. Phillip Lindsay/Marlon Mack kind of guys DO happen, but they're not as common as it seems. Even the 'unheralded' James Connor was a 3rd round pick.

Nick Chubb and Kerryon Johnson were 2nd rounders. Mongtomery, Singletary and even Mattison were 3rd rounders. Those guys we think of as 'late round steals' like Kareem Hunt are still 2nd day picks.

We're extremely unlikely to find a real plus RB in the 3rd day. It just doesn't happen as often as we've convinced ourselves it does. If you want something even as effective as Kenyan Drake, you're probably gonna need to spend 3rd round capital on one.

And with needs at other critical positions that will ALSO likely require 1st/2nd day outlays, it just gets awfully tight.

[O.city]

I agree with both of you. We really need a good RB to pair with Mahomes and I think you would see his stats go back to what they were last year.

It sucks and IMO they did what they had to do (and I'm not getting into the logistics of it) but the offense hasn't been as good since Hunt got cut.

[O.city]

I agree. But there isn't the depth of starting quality talent on the roster to get tunnel vision.

We need upgrades at LB (across the board), IOL, RB and at least a supplemental talent at WR.

And you're looking at spending picks on the first 2 days to get probable contributors at those spots out of the chute. For as much as we devalue RBs, there AREN'T a lot of 4th round runners that are making noise. Phillip Lindsay/Marlon Mack kind of guys DO happen, but they're not as common as it seems. Even the 'unheralded' James Connor was a 3rd round pick.

Nick Chubb and Kerryon Johnson were 2nd rounders. Mongtomery, Singletary and even Mattison were 3rd rounders. Those guys we think of as 'late round steals' like Kareem Hunt are still 2nd day picks.

We're extremely unlikely to find a real plus RB in the 3rd day. It just doesn't happen as often as we've convinced ourselves it does. If you want something even as effective as Kenyan Drake, you're probably gonna need to spend 3rd round capital on one.

And with needs at other critical positions that will ALSO likely require 1st/2nd day outlays, it just gets awfully tight.

I think you can have some improvement at RB by improving the OL, so that's where I'd start.

The more I watch and such of it, man, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a RB really early. I know I'm anti that normally, but man they need something back there.

[NJChiefsFan]

The Bears have lost a lot of their misdirection as well. I know Trubisky is awful most of the time but them, along with the Rams(save for yesterday), both seem off as well.

I don't necessarily think there is a link to them and KC, but it is interesting that 3 of the most unique and dynamic offenses in the league(especially KC/LAR) are off a bit.

I trust that Andy and Mahomes will get it clicking. It's tough being unstoppable and clicking forever in this league. Teams adjust and then KC has to adjust from there. We do still do seem to be stuck in a lower gear right now. Injuries, conditions, whatever it is, it does seem to be so. I think a lot of it is having to adjust to teams forcing us underneath, although DJ mentioned a lot of single-high safety yesterday.

Luckily I think we will eventually click. And to be locked into first place all while trying to "find it", that's not too bad.

[O.city]

The Bears have lost a lot of their misdirection as well. I know Trubisky is awful most of the time but them, along with the Rams(save for yesterday), both seem off as well.

I don't necessarily think there is a link to them and KC, but it is interesting that 3 of the most unique and dynamic offenses in the league(especially KC/LAR) are off a bit.

I trust that Andy and Mahomes will get it clicking. It's tough being unstoppable and clicking forever in this league. Teams adjust and then KC has to adjust from there. We do still do seem to be stuck in a lower gear right now. Injuries, conditions, whatever it is, it does seem to be so. I think a lot of it is having to adjust to teams forcing us underneath, although DJ mentioned a lot of single-high safety yesterday.

Luckily I think we will eventually click. And to be locked into first place all while trying to "find it", that's not too bad.

Exactly. And that's why it's so damn important to win it when you're close and have the chance. It's why last year's finish sucks so much ass.

Things change so much year to year. Teams figure you out a bit, you've gotta change. It's why a coach like Andy is so important and impressive (to some of us lol).

It's also why having a big strong OL and a pocket QB is always the way to go. There are certain things you can't gameplan for.

[The Franchise]

When they did it yesterday, it worked well.

They aren't a power football team. Stop trying to be.

And that’s my biggest issue with Reid this year. Stop just running up the gut. Our team isn’t built like that. And if you’re going to do it.....use Sherman.

[Pitt Gorilla]

This place has become Homer Planet. Not too long ago, people were driven off of this forum for such attitudes.

If people can't be critical about the team they root for, then why bother being a fan if it is just a love-in? - one will ultimately be let down.

I am pleased that the defense has stepped up and won some games this season. They are slowly but surely gaining confidence. The 4th quarter offensive play-calling yesterday was on point in finishing out a game. Special teams had a strong showing and team DISCIPLINE was phenomenal.

However, the Chiefs need to persist at shoring up their weaknesses, and the franchise QB is not immune from criticism here. WTF was that cross-body pass to the middle of the field that should have been picked? His footwork is a mess, and he has the yips at times, throwing too early when he indeed has pocket protection. Yes, the interior O-line is sub-par, and there is not enough movement in the run game to find an effective balance, but from the outside looking in, it is as if there is not total buy-in to the offensive game plan by the players. Teams are taking away the deep stuff, and if Hill or Kelce get extra attention, the other receivers and backs are struggling to make plays.

I think it was rabblerouser who pointed out the formation and run calls that the Chiefs used with Thompson in the game - when Sherman and Bell are on the field, there are generally positive gains made in the run game and no "negative' plays. the RPO game is ok in doses, but teams are on to that league wide. It was good to see the change up in this regard, and it will be necessary for this team to overcome some of its flaws.....Homer Planet? People (including me) are ripping this team apart after a complete beat-down.

[bobbything]

And that’s my biggest issue with Reid this year. Stop just running up the gut. Our team isn’t built like that. And if you’re going to do it.....use Sherman.
This. Between the tackles/guards doesn't work. But we continue to run it. I'd much prefer pulling the line to the left/right and essentially having those guys block on the edges. Kind of like we did in the Priest/L. Johnson years.

If we do line up in a power formation, run play action out of it. They did it once with Sherman and it worked perfectly. But on 3rd/4th and 1, running up the colon of the center doesn't work.

[petegz28]

This. Between the tackles/guards doesn't work. But we continue to run it. I'd much prefer pulling the line to the left/right and essentially having those guys block on the edges. Kind of like we did in the Priest/L. Johnson years.

If we do line up in a power formation, run play action out of it. They did it once with Sherman and it worked perfectly. But on 3rd/4th and 1, running up the colon of the center doesn't work.

When we line up under center we usually run the ball decent. It's the constant shotgun runs that kill this running game.

[petegz28]

31 points in a must-win, divisional game...yeah we got problems

[O.city]

I don't give a shit about the Raiders. We're past that.

They have to be better against the elite teams in the conference to win the SB come playoff time.

[Chiefspants]

I just don't buy it. I'm amazed at the amount of ****ing we're getting after a 31 point ass kicking. Are Ravens fans concerned because Lamar Jackson's passing statlines resemble an opposing QB on Madden's rookie mode?

The conditions caused both QB's on the field to look like refried ass in both of the last two games. I don't see it as a trend, at least not yet.

If Brady tattoos the Chiefs for 300+ and Mahomes struggles to break 200 again next week, then I'll be concerned.

[Aspengc8]

When we line up under center we usually run the ball decent. It's the constant shotgun runs that kill this running game.

whats the difference? zone runs are zone runs no matter under center, pistol, shotgun. blocking doesnt change, just the formations do.

[O.city]

whats the difference? zone runs are zone runs no matter under center, pistol, shotgun. blocking doesnt change, just the formations do.

Are they really zone blocking most everything?

[petegz28]

whats the difference? zone runs are zone runs no matter under center, pistol, shotgun. blocking doesnt change, just the formations do.

A lot....

[petegz28]

I don't give a shit about the Raiders. We're past that.

They have to be better against the elite teams in the conference to win the SB come playoff time.

We're 4-4 against teams .500 or better...

No one else or very few have played that many games against winning teams

[O.city]

A lot....

So what changes Pete?

[O.city]

We're 4-4 against teams .500 or better...

No one else or very few have played that many games against winning teams

And?

They've struggled in those games offensively and are currently the 4th seed in the playoffs.

I'm glad you enjoy being .500 against good teams though.

[rabblerouser]

whats the difference? zone runs are zone runs no matter under center, pistol, shotgun. blocking doesnt change, just the formations do.

Are you serious?

Tell me this is a troll post...

[Hammock Parties]

And?

They've struggled in those games offensively and are currently the 4th seed in the playoffs.

I'm glad you enjoy being .500 against good teams though.

you being cunty again?

i'm shocked

[petegz28]

So what changes Pete?

How about getting a head of steam and taking an hand off in stride with your momentum going forward instead of just starting from a dead stop???

That seems to be quite a bit different....

[FloridaMan88]

Andy already indicating today that Darrel Williams is unlikely to play vs the Faketriots.

Lots of McCoy/Darwin at RB on Sunday which isn’t necessarily a bad thing (assuming Shady protects the football).

[petegz28]

And?

They've struggled in those games offensively and are currently the 4th seed in the playoffs.

I'm glad you enjoy being .500 against good teams though.

Apparently you don't watch much football.....

[petegz28]

Andy already indicating today that Darrel Williams is unlikely to play vs the Faketriots.

Lots of McCoy/Darwin at RB on Sunday which isn’t necessarily a bad thing (assuming Shady protects the football).

And Thompson the QB

[O.city]

you being ****y again?

i'm shocked

I guess I am.

I don't really see how it's that far out of whack to say the offense has struggled compared to what it should be.

[Aspengc8]

Are you serious?

Tell me this is a troll post...

explain to me how inside zone blocking changes when a QB is under center vs a shotgun.

[O.city]

Apparently you don't watch much football.....

For sure.

[Hammock Parties]

I guess I am.

I don't really see how it's that far out of whack to say the offense has struggled compared to what it should be.

because of field conditions and wind mostly

so stop being cunty

they looked like last year's offense in TEN

[petegz28]

We've had a gimped OLine, and QB most of the season...

We had our #1 WR out several games

We had our #1 QB out for 2.75 games

We had our #2 WR out a few games

We've had our RB's going down

We have played all of 2 games with a healthy offense, sorta. Both of those games were in shit conditions for either the field being crappy and a altitude or a 40mph blustery cross wind.

We put up 56 offensive points in those 2 games and people are bitching???

We are going on game #3 with a healthy offense. Give it a fucking break!

[keg in kc]

Injuries across the board and weather yesterday. It's hard to get and stay in synch when the roster changes weekly. They've had an insane amount of either recurring or nagging injuries.

[TwistedChief]

We've had a gimped OLine, and QB most of the season...

We had our #1 WR out several games

We had our #1 QB out for 2.75 games

We had our #2 WR out a few games

We've had our RB's going down

We have played all of 2 games with a healthy offense, sorta. Both of those games were in shit conditions for either the field being crappy and a altitude or a 40mph blustery cross wind.

We put up 56 offensive points in those 2 games and people are bitching???

We are going on game #3 with a healthy offense. Give it a fucking break!

This all day.

If Mahomes didn’t torch the fucking Titans, I’d be a bit more concerned.

But do people really think the elements the last couple games haven’t mattered? The best proof that they have is the opposing QBs who both have made our defense look like world beaters.

Our defense isn’t as good as it looked last night. Our offense is a lot better than it looked last night.

We’ll be fine. Believe in God but put the ball in the hands of Mahomes.

[petegz28]

I'll leave this here...

and that's being out 2.75 games this season to boot

Mahomes didn’t light up the stat sheet on Sunday, but he still managed to break yet another record. With one scoring strike to tailback Darrel Williams, Mahomes became the fastest player in NFL history to tally 70 touchdowns through the air, passing Pro Football Hall of Famer Dan Marino.

[rabblerouser]

explain to me how inside zone blocking changes when a QB is under center vs a shotgun.

We don't do much inside zone blocking, first of all.

It has more to do with the personnel groups and the actual formation. Shotgun usually has a single back set, with no lead blocker for the running back.

I formation has a fullback as the lead blocker.

A typical bread-and-butter play from the I-formation might have a name like "I right 32 iso". That means an I formation with the right side being the strong side -- the tight end and the flanker (the wide receiver a yard behind the line of scrimmage) are lined up to the right, with a split end (the wide receiver on the line of scrimmage) on the left. The 32 means the halfback (or the 3-back) is getting the ball and running through the 2-hole (between the center and right guard). "Iso" is short for isolation, meaning the fullback is leading the running back through the hole and engaging the middle linebacker in an isolation, one-on-one block. (You know, the kind of block where the MNF audience heard Ray Lewis complain that he was being double-teamed, but was just getting his ass kicked.)

The offensive linemen block the players in front of them, with each tackle taking a defensive end, a guard blocking one defensive tackle alone and the other guard and the center double-teaming the other defensive tackle. The tight end blocks the strongside linebacker, and the two receivers might run a flag or a hook route to take the cornerbacks out of the play.

A play like I right 32 ISO won't produce a lot of long runs, but that's not what it's designed for. If the right personnel executes it properly, it will accomplish one of two things: Either it will consistently allow the offense to gain four yards a pop (and an offense that can do that will march right down the field) or it will force the defense to bring the strong safety close to the line of scrimmage for run support. When TV announcers describe this, they call it "eight in the box, " and it means the defense is susceptible to the other bread-and-butter play of the I-formation: the play-action pass.

When the offense sees the strong safety playing run, it becomes clear that it's time to run the play action. The linemen and fullback have the same blocking responsibilities and try to make it look like a running play. The quarterback fakes a handoff to the running back, but instead of giving up the ball he goes into his seven-step drop. With the strong safety playing run support, the cornerback has no help in coverage on the flanker, who becomes the primary receiver on the play. This could be Hill's bread and butter. It's made for Mahomes to Hill.


The 3rd and 1 where Mahomes did a play fake and flicked the ball to Sausage out of the 22 personnel I formation was PERFECTION - the defense bit so hard on the play fake...

There's so much versatility in the I formation for this offense.

Let's talk a little more about the fullback, Sausage, who usually lines up about four yards behind the quarterback, with the running back usually about three yards further behind. At seven yards behind the line of scrimmage, the running back can easily survey the field to see where the defensive players are lining up, and he can get a full head of steam so that he's at full speed when he hits the line of scrimmage. The running back also has time to watch blocks develop and can find cutback lanes.

That's why running from under center is better than running from shotgun, for starters. The personnel and formations lend themselves better to more efficient running.

[chiefzilla1501]

Need to see what darwins got. Saw Duke Johnson explode in space vs NE yesterday and can't see why Darwin can't do the same. We made that mistake last year when new England was spoon feeding us the rb dump off and we weren't taking it. Split time with mccoy who hasn't been great but hasn't been terrible, fumbling aside.

[King_Chief_Fan]

because of field conditions and wind mostly

so stop being ****y

they looked like last year's offense in TEN

You need to go find something else to do.
Your schtick has been worn out for some time.

You are a blind homer with copied football takes.

[chiefzilla1501]

This all day.

If Mahomes didn’t torch the ****ing Titans, I’d be a bit more concerned.

But do people really think the elements the last couple games haven’t mattered? The best proof that they have is the opposing QBs who both have made our defense look like world beaters.

Our defense isn’t as good as it looked last night. Our offense is a lot better than it looked last night.

We’ll be fine. Believe in God but put the ball in the hands of Mahomes.

The optimistic take is that the elements also magnified our warts and we had a whole bye week to fix them. They weren't on full display vs Oakland. We couldn't. I'm certain unless we get another extreme field or weather outlier, they will be on Sunday. We dabbled in a lot of things yesterday. We're hitting the gas next weekend.

[Marcellus]

And?

They've struggled in those games offensively and are currently the 4th seed in the playoffs.

I'm glad you enjoy being .500 against good teams though.

:facepalm:

Dude you are making shit up. They have struggled offensively with Mahomes in exactly 2 games. Both of them wins.

The games they lost they did not "struggle offensively" unless you just want to randomly decide if we lost it was because of the offense.

[O.city]

:facepalm:

Dude you are making shit up. They have struggled offensively with Mahomes in exactly 2 games. Both of them wins.

The games they lost they did not "struggle offensively" unless you just want to randomly decide if we lost it was because of the offense.

The Colts game wasn't struggling on offense? The 7 points in 3 quarters vs the Texans?

[NJChiefsFan]

:facepalm:

Dude you are making shit up. They have struggled offensively with Mahomes in exactly 2 games. Both of them wins.

The games they lost they did not "struggle offensively" unless you just want to randomly decide if we lost it was because of the offense.

We didn't struggle offensively in the Colts game?

[Bob Dole]

How quickly we got spoiled 31 points is not struggling.

[Marcellus]

The Colts game wasn't struggling on offense? The 7 points in 3 quarters vs the Texans?

I'll give you the Colts but putting up 24 on Houston is not "struggling".

Look I get it, when you lose and you only lose by 7 or less it's always "had we scored that last time" etc...

But I think this is getting overblown.

The facts are we are the 3rd highest scoring offense in football (1pt behind 2nd place SF) and 4th in total yards.

We got spoiled last season and we have a ton of injuries this season. I don't know I guess we will see next week on the road against a really good defense.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I haven't read through the whole thread but I'd like to make a comment that, In watching Mahomes weekly pressers this year I can see something is "up".As an expert in animal behavior, I notice little tendencies. you notice this year he has a little anxiety in his interviews, a lot of hands to the face and scratching. He didn't do this last year. I have an idea about it but hope it's not the case.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

How quickly we got spoiled 31 points is not struggling.

His last two games stat wise have been the 2 worst perfomances of his career.

[Marcellus]

His last two games stat wise have been the 2 worst perfomances of his career.

And the Tennessee game 3 weeks ago was one of his best. :shrug:

[TRR]

I haven't read through the whole thread but I'd like to make a comment that, In watching Mahomes weekly pressers this year I can see something is "up".As an expert in animal behavior, I notice little tendencies. you notice this year he has a little anxiety in his interviews, a lot of hands to the face and scratching. He didn't do this last year. I have an idea about it but hope it's not the case.

It’s getting DEEP in here!

I do wonder how much his off-the-field commitments have weighed. The dude is at an event nearly every free moment it seems.

Either way, he’s still been all world this year sans a few moments.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Well, hopefully its just the injuries and lack of continuity with the receivers this year. He and Hill have played very little together. And yes the wind was obviously horrible Sunday. That one pass just fluttered right into the defender who couldn't even make the catch.

I noticed the last kickoff we kicked. ,the ball started way left and at the end zone took a sharp turn to the right . It really got my attention as to the wind conditions.

[rabblerouser]

It’s getting DEEP in here!



And it's cold, too.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0pkZdE1_h8M/hqdefault.jpg

[TwistedChief]

We didn't struggle offensively in the Colts game?

We were without Hill and Watkins. Mahomes was at his most gimpy. Our OL was Swiss cheese. And we nearly won if not for a super costly RB fumble.

[TwistedChief]

I haven't read through the whole thread but I'd like to make a comment that, In watching Mahomes weekly pressers this year I can see something is "up".As an expert in animal behavior, I notice little tendencies. you notice this year he has a little anxiety in his interviews, a lot of hands to the face and scratching. He didn't do this last year. I have an idea about it but hope it's not the case.

Do you feel he’s afraid of being slaughtered along with his family and served as a dinner entree at a local restaurant? Is that what your experience indicates?

[Halfcan]

Mahomes had a perfectly thrown ball for a TD go right through Kelce's hands. Then the refs pulled another TD off the board from Mahomes and Robinson for a bullshit holding call.

Mahomes would have had 3 passing TD's and 1 Rushing in some of the worst, windy conditions a QB could play in.


Yep, folks he has lost his edge.

[staylor26]

We were without Hill and Watkins. Mahomes was at his most gimpy. Our OL was Swiss cheese. And we nearly won if not for a super costly RB fumble.

Yea I get questioning the offense this week when everybody is healthy coming off a bye against a bad defense, but it should be no surprise that the “offense struggled” in a game like that against a solid d.

Actually, I haven’t been more down on the offense than I am this week all season because there’s really no excuses to point at aside from the wind.

[TwistedChief]

Yea I get questioning the offense this week when everybody is healthy coming off a bye against a bad defense, but it should be no surprise that the “offense struggled” in a game like that against a solid d.

Actually, I haven’t been more down on the offense than I am this week all season because there’s really no excuses to point at aside from the wind.

Sure, but that same wind likely played a major role in helping our defense look like a top-5 unit. So it's entirely possible that it meaningfully impacted both QBs.

Again, if Mahomes didn't light up the Titans after coming back from his injury, I'd be more concerned. I also think it's possible they've been holding stuff back for the Patriots. We got off to a fast start and there really wasn't any reason for Reid to dig deep and empty the playbook.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Sure, but that same wind likely played a major role in helping our defense look like a top-5 unit. So it's entirely possible that it meaningfully impacted both QBs.

Again, if Mahomes didn't light up the Titans after coming back from his injury, I'd be more concerned. I also think it's possible they've been holding stuff back for the Patriots. We got off to a fast start and there really wasn't any reason for Reid to dig deep and empty the playbook.

I'm really really hoping THIS!

[Halfcan]

I guess people expect Mahomes to still be slinging it all over the field with a 30 point lead?

Lots of sad-sack depressing posters on this board, especially after a huge win!

[Chief Northman]

Oh shut the **** up already with this homer shit it’s the same thing you were just doing when people simply suggested giving Darwin a shot and expressed optimism about the young RB.

Looks like the “homers” were right that he deserved and opportunity, and I don’t see how suggesting that field/weather conditions have had a negative impact on the Chiefs passing game the last couple games makes you a “homer”. It’s an obvious observation.

Listen McCloud,

Don’t be so myopic in thinking that I’m focusing on people griping about the weather as the excuse for an inconsistent performance by the offense. I’m talking more about how this place gets euphoric after a win and how we’re going to stomp a mud hole in the Patriots arses, run the table, and win the Super Bowl. I really hope all of that happens, but I’m not setting myself up for that huge letdown if it inevitably happens by running my mouth and repping outlandish shit on a message board.

That game next week at Foxboro will be closely contested I hope, and the Chiefs will have their hands full with an elite defense in the Patriots backyard. The Pats usually play well coming off a loss which is rare.

Do you think the fact that Thompson running against a team that had waved the white flag at half time might’ve had something to do with his success yesterday? I’m happy for the guy and was pleased with the playcalling on that run heavy drive to close out the game -but even Stevie Wonder can see that the Raiders just wanted to fucking go home and had tapped out at half. If Thompson can carry the ball 22 times and get near one hundred yards, then great - until then, let’s not crown him as the next Jamaal Charles or anything crazy like that…

That Patriots D is for real, and Andy and Mahomes best be ready for a fight.

[Chief Northman]

I haven't read through the whole thread but I'd like to make a comment that, In watching Mahomes weekly pressers this year I can see something is "up".As an expert in animal behavior, I notice little tendencies. you notice this year he has a little anxiety in his interviews, a lot of hands to the face and scratching. He didn't do this last year. I have an idea about it but hope it's not the case.

The Mom issues must be real.

That or he smokes rocks.

[Aspengc8]

We don't do much inside zone blocking, first of all.

It has more to do with the personnel groups and the actual formation. Shotgun usually has a single back set, with no lead blocker for the running back.

I formation has a fullback as the lead blocker.

A typical bread-and-butter play from the I-formation might have a name like "I right 32 iso". That means an I formation with the right side being the strong side -- the tight end and the flanker (the wide receiver a yard behind the line of scrimmage) are lined up to the right, with a split end (the wide receiver on the line of scrimmage) on the left. The 32 means the halfback (or the 3-back) is getting the ball and running through the 2-hole (between the center and right guard). "Iso" is short for isolation, meaning the fullback is leading the running back through the hole and engaging the middle linebacker in an isolation, one-on-one block. (You know, the kind of block where the MNF audience heard Ray Lewis complain that he was being double-teamed, but was just getting his ass kicked.)

The offensive linemen block the players in front of them, with each tackle taking a defensive end, a guard blocking one defensive tackle alone and the other guard and the center double-teaming the other defensive tackle. The tight end blocks the strongside linebacker, and the two receivers might run a flag or a hook route to take the cornerbacks out of the play.

A play like I right 32 ISO won't produce a lot of long runs, but that's not what it's designed for. If the right personnel executes it properly, it will accomplish one of two things: Either it will consistently allow the offense to gain four yards a pop (and an offense that can do that will march right down the field) or it will force the defense to bring the strong safety close to the line of scrimmage for run support. When TV announcers describe this, they call it "eight in the box, " and it means the defense is susceptible to the other bread-and-butter play of the I-formation: the play-action pass.

When the offense sees the strong safety playing run, it becomes clear that it's time to run the play action. The linemen and fullback have the same blocking responsibilities and try to make it look like a running play. The quarterback fakes a handoff to the running back, but instead of giving up the ball he goes into his seven-step drop. With the strong safety playing run support, the cornerback has no help in coverage on the flanker, who becomes the primary receiver on the play. This could be Hill's bread and butter. It's made for Mahomes to Hill.


The 3rd and 1 where Mahomes did a play fake and flicked the ball to Sausage out of the 22 personnel I formation was PERFECTION - the defense bit so hard on the play fake...

There's so much versatility in the I formation for this offense.

Let's talk a little more about the fullback, Sausage, who usually lines up about four yards behind the quarterback, with the running back usually about three yards further behind. At seven yards behind the line of scrimmage, the running back can easily survey the field to see where the defensive players are lining up, and he can get a full head of steam so that he's at full speed when he hits the line of scrimmage. The running back also has time to watch blocks develop and can find cutback lanes.

That's why running from under center is better than running from shotgun, for starters. The personnel and formations lend themselves better to more efficient running.

They actually DO run a shit-ton of zone blocking schemes since the majority of their run game is from 11 and 12 personnel, both inside and outside zone. When they are under center in 21 or 22, its usually outside zone or power scheme. Andy likes to have his vertical weapons on the field and often gets a weak box because of it. The problem is our shit line can't block 6v6, otherwise our RB's would be having a fucking field day.

At least quote your source if your going to copy paste a blob like that.

[NJChiefsFan]

We were without Hill and Watkins. Mahomes was at his most gimpy. Our OL was Swiss cheese. And we nearly won if not for a super costly RB fumble.

I'm not disputing that. I was responding to a poster saying our only poor offensive games were both wins.

[Easy 6]

No need to overthink it, it’s a mishmash of several things that have all been mentioned

Mahomes working back to 100%
Patchwork O line for months on end
Terrible wind last night
Watkins glass vagina
Constant RB shuffling/no real bell cow
Any number of other things

Can’t do much about Watkins or the interior line right now, but we’ve otherwise got the band back together, and now they can start knocking the collective rust off... at just the right time

As long as the defense keeps taking steps forward, we’re in good shape

[PAChiefsGuy]

Offense has been bad lately anyone saying different is in denial. Defenses have adjusted to Mahomes strengths/weaknesses and our running game is pretty average. WRs are average outside Hill. Watkins isn't scaring anyone anymore. Oline is pretty good but as others have mentioned our Oline isn't built to be a running team.

We need someone to step up against the Pats cause they are going to look to take away Kelce and Hill. That happens and no one gets going it could be a long day.

Positive side I am happy to see Mahomes scrambling more. He's got some quickness to him and he should use it when he sees an opportunity. Also, Reid has a great offensive mind and we do have a lot of speed on O. I'm confident they will get it turned around but it is definitely something to keep an eye on.

[KChiefs1]

Can’t wait until the Chiefs move on from Watkins. What a waste of money.

[Easy 6]

Can’t wait until the Chiefs move on from Watkins. What a waste of money.

The cosmic space lizard is not long for this team

[notorious]

Fuck this regular season shit.

I will judge by playoff performance.

[ModSocks]

Fuck this regular season shit.

I will judge by playoff performance.

Exactly. That's all that really matters.

[King_Chief_Fan]

I will judge by playoff performance.

This is the only thing that counts after 7 years

[Chief Northman]

**** this regular season shit.

I will judge by playoff performance.

Wisdom. Thanks for sharing it.

[FloridaMan88]

Just find ways to get the ball to Tyreek, Mecole, Watkins and DRob in open space with short/quick passes.

They also need to be sure to consistently catch these passes as well.

[Megatron96]

Last 2 weeks have been pretty shitty on offense. Sure they scored yesterday, but that's against the shitbird Raiders and the Chiefs looked shitty doing it.

Mahomes doesn't look right to my eye. Anyone else notice he seemed to be laboring to even get back to hand the ball off at times? Is he still hurt?

He looks skiddish in the pocket (with the interior OL I guess I get it) but the Chiefs can't win in the playoffs without him being his normal self.

What's everyone's thoughts on whats going on? Am I just seeing shit?

The last two weeks Mahomes had to play at 7,300 ft. and then in what amounted to a gale (I was told that gusts reached 40 mph). I'm going to give him a pass for now.

What is encouraging to me is that in spite of Pat's less than stellar performances over the last two opponents, the team has played fairly well around him, particularly the defense, so Superman wasn't necessary.

Also consider: before the Raiders game, Pat and Tyreek had been on the field for just 3 games this season or something like that. The OL that we started the season with had only been on the field for 56 snaps before the Chargers game.

Another consideration: the defense is now consistently producing stops and takeaways in each game. That's extra possessions. At the beginning of the season most teams were either getting the same number of possessions or more possessions than the Chiefs. Since the DEN game, the Chiefs defense has managed to give our offense at least as many possessions and in at least three games more possessions than our opponents.

That can only help the offense find its groove going forward.

[Chargem]

Another consideration: the defense is now consistently producing stops and takeaways in each game. That's extra possessions. At the beginning of the season most teams were either getting the same number of possessions or more possessions than the Chiefs. Since the DEN game, the Chiefs defense has managed to give our offense at least as many possessions and in at least three games more possessions than our opponents.

That can only help the offense find its groove going forward.

Aren't takeaways possession neutral, with the exception of the pick 6, which actually reduces offense possessions, rather than increasing them?

[Megatron96]

Aren't takeaways possession neutral, with the exception of the pick 6, which actually reduces offense possessions, rather than increasing them?


I'll try to illustrate my point with an example from earlier this season.

In the Colts game, the Colts finished with 10 possessions, while the Chiefs only had 8. We didn't generate any turnovers, nor could we produce any 3-and-outs.

In the Titans game, both teams had a total of 10 possessions. However, the Chiefs defense generated two of their 10 possessions by a strip sack that we recovered and a turnover on downs. Without those two turnovers, the Chiefs would've only had 8 or 9 possessions in the game.

And in one game, the Chiefs had 11 or 12 possessions, two or three of which were generated by turnovers, and our opponent only had 10. Just can't remember which game that was anymore, but I'll try to find it later.

[Buehler445]

As far as the OP, I’m going to point to the interior OL. Pressure up the middle and no run game are devistating to an offense.

What was really strange was the number of single-high looks we were getting that we weren't attacking.

I get it - the wind was hellish. But Mahomes on 18-25 yard crossers can drive a ball through the wind. Dude has the best arm in the league and if you're getting single coverage out wide, why aren't you doing a little more to attack those deep seems?

The touch passes like the one he tried to throw to Kelce are going to be hell in those conditions and I get that. But there shouldn't have been as much of an issue on those bullets he can throw in the intermediate ranges. I wonder if more of those single-high man looks that I was seeing weren't disguised zones or something that I wasn't noticing in real time. It just seemed like he had more possible 'shot plays' that he could've muscled into windows that he just didn't look for.

It happens - teams get out of sync sometimes and there's little cause to believe it will continue. But they absolutely have to get something out of Watkins or find a miracle in Thompson because they can't put up 24+ points with regularity playing a 3-man offense.

As far as the crossers, I’m not going to bang on a play caller for keeping it short when you’re up 2 scores early. Quite frankly I wouldn’t call anything that took any time to develop in that game either. They didn’t need to.

That’s the same defense Reid and Mahomes got all rapey with the Faid in Oakland. I think those calls (and hopefully protections, which is what I’m worried about) will be there if we need them.

[carcosa]

Chiefs offense will average 35 a game from now thru the super bowl!!!!!

[Chargem]

I'll try to illustrate my point with an example from earlier this season.

In the Colts game, the Colts finished with 10 possessions, while the Chiefs only had 8. We didn't generate any turnovers, nor could we produce any 3-and-outs.

In the Titans game, both teams had a total of 10 possessions. However, the Chiefs defense generated two of their 10 possessions by a strip sack that we recovered and a turnover on downs. Without those two turnovers, the Chiefs would've only had 8 or 9 possessions in the game.

And in one game, the Chiefs had 11 or 12 possessions, two or three of which were generated by turnovers, and our opponent only had 10. Just can't remember which game that was anymore, but I'll try to find it later.

Where are you getting the stats from? I am seeing 10 possessions for both teams in the Colts game on pro football reference.

And how would the Chiefs have had two less possessions if they didn't get the turnovers in the Titans game? If the Titans had scored a touchdown rather than turning the ball over, the Chiefs still get the ball back at the end of it?

The only two things I can see that genuinely affect possessions are muffed punts being recovered which affect possessions positively or a pick 6, which affects possession negatively.

I would suggest the coin toss actually makes a bigger difference to number of possessions over the course of a season than the two things above.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Top 3 offense DVOA with Mahomes missing 3 and a half games...you guys are silly sometimes

[Chargem]

Top 3 offense DVOA with Mahomes missing 3 and a half games...you guys are silly sometimes

Two and a half? Denver, GB, Vikings?

[Deberg_1990]

Just find ways to get the ball to Tyreek, Mecole, Watkins and DRob in open space with short/quick passes.

They also need to be sure to consistently catch these passes as well.

What’s interesting is that Matt Moore did A more consistent job of getting the ball to Tyreek.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Two and a half? Denver, GB, Vikings?

True, but you could say that ankle impacted the Indy and Houston 2nd halves. Dude couldn't move...

[mr. tegu]

I have noticed Mahomes leaving pockets a bit too early at times the last few weeks. Sometime it’s a necessity and sometimes I think he is just saying screw it and wants to get out of the pocket regardless to make a play. Sometimes that’s great but it seems like the last few weeks it was nothing but that.

But I think more than anything it is that for at least a few weeks now I think the offense has been somewhat bland on purpose and have been holding back. We haven’t seen quite as many creative plays instead opting for pretty standard plays. We haven’t seen guys running wide open as much with defenses looking lost.

We didn’t forget how to do these things. I think we are purposely holding back the offense which is actually really smart. Our team has often been ridiculously good on offense in the regular season or most of it, only to start dwindling as the season goes on. I think Reid finally realizes that we don’t need to do our best stuff every week in the regular season and saving it for certain teams and the playoffs is a better strategy.

I fully expect to see some new things this week incorporating Hardman and Robinson and for there to be at least a few plays with Hill running free. We will have receivers open and their defense will look confused at times. We will do whatever we want on offense just like we always do against them.

[petegz28]

What’s interesting is that Matt Moore did A more consistent job of getting the ball to Tyreek.

:facepalm:

How many games has Pat had with Reek?

2....one of which was in a very windy game in which Reek was the only Wr to get the ball.....

The other game Pat threw for 435+ yards and 3 TDs.....

Just :facepalm:

[Megatron96]

Where are you getting the stats from? I am seeing 10 possessions for both teams in the Colts game on pro football reference.

And how would the Chiefs have had two less possessions if they didn't get the turnovers in the Titans game? If the Titans had scored a touchdown rather than turning the ball over, the Chiefs still get the ball back at the end of it?

The only two things I can see that genuinely affect possessions are muffed punts being recovered which affect possessions positively or a pick 6, which affects possession negatively.

I would suggest the coin toss actually makes a bigger difference to number of possessions over the course of a season than the two things above.

I have to admit I got the number of possessions for the Colts game from an ESPN show I saw about a week after the game. I never actually looked them up for myself, I took the analyst at his word.

However, when I look at ESPN's play-by-play of the game, the last possession by the Chiefs in the first half was a kneel down to close the half. So maybe he didn't count that possession because it was obviously not an attempt to score. But I further note that the Colts' last possession also was a set of victory formations to end the game. So, that's still 9 possessions per team.

I'm going to have to stop taking the talking heads at their word when it comes to stats.

And you can have more or less possessions. Think about it. Time is a factor. Every possession takes a certain amount of time. Without those turnovers it was possible that the Titans could've eaten up enough clock on both or either of those two drives so that they could effectively eliminate a Chiefs' possession.

But we're getting away from my original point a bit. The point I was trying to make is that getting those turnovers (unless the defense scores) puts our offense back on the field quickly. And rhythm is a factor for any offense, maybe even more so for ours. If the defense can quickly get the ball back for the offense, that can only help get our offense back into the rhythm they had last year. When our offense sits on the sideline for long stretches is when they seem to have the most trouble with stalling out, mistakes, etc.

[ModSocks]

Chris Simms talks about what ails the Chiefs offense.

And i totally agree.

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[O.city]

Went back and watched the Ravens game from earlier in the year.

Offense was just more confident. OL was playing fine, Pat looked confident, shit was just working.

I think the injuries just took their toll on the OL. It's just out of sync.