PSA: Kareem Hunt isn't as good as you remember.

[Buehler445]

I could bury this in a Kareem thread, but it wouldn't prevent you weirdos from making more goddamned threads.

Here's the thing, Kareem was really good in space which our guys aren't getting. He wasn't really elite between the tackles, like say a Jamaal Charles who could make something out of not a goddamned thing. He got stoned at the line A LOT. He'd make it up with giant plays in space, but Damien is pretty damned good in space too. Sure, he liked to dish out punishment....in space. He got yards between the tackles, but our OL wasn't the waste of ass this one is. The hard nosed running didn't equate to him overcoming shit OL - which we didn't have at the time.

Sure he's better than our guys. But that improvement wouldn't equate to material improvement in our weaknesses.

Bottom line is this, Kareem Hunt switched out for Shady or Darrell or whomever wouldn't make a material difference. Accordingly, pining for him is not only an exercise in futility, but wouldn't materially affect our weaknesses.

[Reerun_KC]

Kareem on the team last year = Super Bowl


No Kareem last year no super bowl.


Fast forward to now and Kareem isn’t the same.

[ModSocks]

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/VcWnY3R6YWVtC" width="480" height="276" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-girlfriend-salem-VcWnY3R6YWVtC">via GIPHY</a></p>

[ThaVirus]

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/VcWnY3R6YWVtC" width="480" height="276" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-girlfriend-salem-VcWnY3R6YWVtC">via GIPHY</a></p>

LMAO Perfect

[Reerun_KC]

Kareem could get those extra hard years between the tackles last year that our boys can’t get this year.

Second. He doesn’t like to fumble like McCoy does.

[Reerun_KC]

3rd. Merry Christmas you farming bastard.

[bsp4444]

Kareem Hunt ran like a man with the Chiefs...bouncing off defenders, carrying defenders, picking up the blitz. OP is just wrong.

[Chief Roundup]

:popcorn:

[Pitt Gorilla]

League-leading rushers typically aren’t that good.

[Deberg_1990]

Jamaal Charles and Priest Holmes weren’t that good either.

[Wallcrawler]

Were Hunt still on the team, He's still a top 5 back in the way that Reid schemes. The stretches, tossed etc, those all end up positive gains, and even with this weak interior, hes still a 4.0 avg in there. Offense is better if Hunt were the starter.

Ball security would be eliminated as a worry as well.

It sucks he had to take his career here, put it on its knees and put a bullet in the back of its head.

But hey, thug life yo. Gotta represent.

[AdolfOliverBush]

The mere presence of Hunt in the backfield would help the offense tremendously. Defenses aren't afraid of Ware, Senior Citizen McCoy, or a midget.

[ModSocks]

But hey, thug life yo. Gotta represent.

:rolleyes:

[KC_Connection]

I mean, whatever you want to say about him, he's a shit ton better than the runningbacks we currently have.

If he's available as a free agent and wants to return, I don't see any reason we wouldn't want him. He'd make the team better.

[Tribal Warfare]

IMO, If the Chiefs don't attain a workhorse RB like Derrick Henry in FA then somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds KC will select a feature back with the theme of protecting and making it easier on Mahomes.

[TwistedChief]

Two things:
1. He's absolutely better than you're giving him credit for
2. He's absolutely not coming back

That's really all there is to say.

[Rasputin]

His coach is a buttfuckingmoran and idiot.


He needs to get touches and plays to feed him the ball in space. The Browns coach shits himself or whoever is doing the play calling or game plan but not feeding him the ball is coaching suicide.

[Pitt Gorilla]

IMO, If the Chiefs don't attain a workhorse RB like Derrick Henry in FA then somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds KC will select a feature back with the theme of protecting and making it easier on Mahomes.

It’s fairly amazing to me that protecting Mahomes hasn’t been a top priority already. What does the guy have to do to earn that kind of consideration?

[Chargem]

Thanks OP for helping fight the tide of annoying Kareem Hunt threads by starting more Kareem Hunt threads.

[Rain Man]

In some alternate universe, Kareem Hunt is still a Chief. It's Week 17, and the Chiefs rest 52 players, with Kareem being the only player in uniform. The Chiefs defeat the Chargers 23-17 as Phillip Rivers throws an interception in the end zone to Kareem Hunt on the final play of the game.

[Tribal Warfare]

It’s fairly amazing to me that protecting Mahomes hasn’t been a top priority already. What does the guy have to do to earn that kind of consideration?

It'll take Clark Hunt, especially if he's paying him a 200+ million contract that includes garuntee bonus money.

Clark compared Patrick to Michael Jordan, and I would believe he'll want to extend his career and have him healthy so Mahomos survive a 15-18 year career.

[Buehler445]

Look. He’s better than what we have. No question. However, a power running game a running back does not make. Power running game comes from interior OL. And in case you haven’t noticed, ours is ass.

Remember, before Hunt took off Ware was ripping shit between the tackles. That isn’t happening now.

He’s not a big fucker that can overcome huge DTs. You guys are just choosing to not remember the 0-1 yard gains.

[Buehler445]

I mean, whatever you want to say about him, he's a shit ton better than the runningbacks we currently have.

If he's available as a free agent and wants to return, I don't see any reason we wouldn't want him. He'd make the team better.

No disagreement. But 1. He’s not coming. 2. It wouldn’t materially affect our inability to run between the tackles.

[Buehler445]

League-leading rushers typically aren’t that good.

He’s good. But he’s not going to make holes to run through. And that is our problem.

[BlackHelicopters]

Thugs gonna thug.

[Buehler445]

Two things:
1. He's absolutely better than you're giving him credit for
2. He's absolutely not coming back

That's really all there is to say.

I’m not attempting to discredit him. He’s better than what we have here. But our running game between the tackles wouldn’t materially improve. He got stoned at the line a lot and our interior OL isn’t moving anybody.

[Buehler445]

The mere presence of Hunt in the backfield would help the offense tremendously. Defenses aren't afraid of Ware, Senior Citizen McCoy, or a midget.

They would if there were holes to run through that would lead to at least moderate production. McCoy doesn’t have speed anymore but he’s a really smart runner (which I didn’t give him credit for until I saw him run). If there were holes he’d find them.

No question on the fumbling though. That aspect would improve.

[Rasputin]

If we can win the Super Bowl this year without him can we forget about Kareem Hunt?

We can focus more on the Oline and still find players in the draft to help us out.



I think we are doing pretty aright without him.

[Buehler445]

Jamaal Charles and Priest Holmes weren’t that good either.

Jamaal would be more productive behind this garbage line than Hunt. He could blow through tiny holes. He was a ridiculous talent.

Holmes couldn’t. He’s not that guy. Hunt isn’t either

[DaFace]

Kareem Hunt:
2017 - 4.9 YPA / 8.6 YPC
2018 - 4.6 YPA / 14.5 YPC
2019 - 4.1 YPA / 7.4 YPC

Damien Williams:
2018 - 5.1 YPA / 7.0 YPC
2019 - 3.8 YPA / 7.0 YPC

LeSean McCoy:
2019 - 4.6 YPA / 6.5 YPC

Darrel Williams:
2019 - 3.4 YPA / 11.1 YPC

I think it's reasonable to assume that Kareem would be BETTER than the guys we have, but I'm not sure it'd be a complete game changer. I certainly wouldn't be giving up draft picks to bring him back next year.

[Buehler445]

3rd. Merry Christmas you farming bastard.

Merry Christmas to you too, ya flying fuck.

[Buehler445]

Kareem Hunt:
2017 - 4.9 YPA / 8.6 YPC
2018 - 4.6 YPA / 14.5 YPC
2019 - 4.1 YPA / 7.4 YPC

Damien Williams:
2018 - 5.1 YPA / 7.0 YPC
2019 - 3.8 YPA / 7.0 YPC

LeSean McCoy:
2019 - 4.6 YPA / 6.5 YPC

Darrel Williams:
2019 - 3.4 YPA / 11.1 YPC

I think it's reasonable to assume that Kareem would be BETTER than the guys we have, but I'm not sure it'd be a complete game changer. I certainly wouldn't be giving up draft picks to bring him back next year.

Just a heads up, logic doesn’t play well here.

[Chris Meck]

IMO, If the Chiefs don't attain a workhorse RB like Derrick Henry in FA then somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds KC will select a feature back with the theme of protecting and making it easier on Mahomes.

This is the way to go forward. Round 3 seems to be the lucky sweet spot for us.

I'm SO tired of hearing about Kareem Hunt. He made his bed. Move on already.

[DaFace]

Darwin Thompson just to be thorough:

2019 - 3.4 YPA / 5.9 YPC

[Rasputin]

It's going be hard enough finding talent picking with our 32nd overall draft pick. I sure wouldn't give up any draft picks for him with 31 other teams picking in front of us we're going need what we can get.

[Demonpenz]

He got fined for dishing out punishment running people over.

[srvy]

What little I have seen the Browns Chub gets the majority of carries but Hunt looks like the better back blocking receiving and running. Not to take anything away for Chub who is good its just my opinion and could be biased.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I’m not attempting to discredit him. He’s better than what we have here. But our running game between the tackles wouldn’t materially improve. He got stoned at the line a lot and our interior OL isn’t moving anybody.
So, the biggest difference is the absence of Mitch Morse? Perhaps he was worth a new contract?

[Pitt Gorilla]

This is the way to go forward. Round 3 seems to be the lucky sweet spot for us.

I'm SO tired of hearing about Kareem Hunt. He made his bed. Move on already.

OR, you could try staying out of threads with his name in the title. :shrug:

[DaFace]

So, the biggest difference is the absence of Mitch Morse? Perhaps he was worth a new contract?Would you pay $11m a year to improve the running game? I don't think I would.

Not to mention that Morse has had to leave 3 games this year due to injury.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Would you pay $11m a year to improve the running game? I don't think I would.

Not to mention that Morse has had to leave 3 games this year due to injury.Is he worth $11 million to protect Patrick Mahomes? Because that's what improving the run game and pass pro would do.

[Imon Yourside]

I bet Hunt is a better shitposter than most of you fools!

[chinaski]

Jamaal Charles and Priest Holmes weren’t that good either.

Freddie Kitchens is a brilliant head coach, Bo Jackson was a mediocre football and baseball player and Jimi Hendrix was a below average guitar player. Neil Armstrong wasn't a very good Astronaut either


:p

[ThaVirus]

The thing about Kareem is that he legitimately had everything you’d look for in a back.

He was big, strong, powerful, and had decent speed. He could run between and outside the tackles. He could catch the ball, he could block. He never fumbled. He never got hurt or even banged up.. and he did all of that on a rookie contract.

Now we’re paying five dudes to, collectively, not even give us what we already had in one guy.

[Buehler445]

So, the biggest difference is the absence of Mitch Morse? Perhaps he was worth a new contract?

Well, largely, like the whole Hunt thing, it doesn't fucking matter now.

But for the sake the collective psychiatric health of ChiefsPlanet, who is obviously largely still pining for Hunt, objective analysis regarding Hunt's realized strengths and weaknesses relative to the team's capacities is necessary.

[Imon Yourside]

The thing about Kareem is that he legitimately had everything you’d look for in a back.

He was big, strong, powerful, and had decent speed. He could run between and outside the tackles. He could catch the ball, he could block. He never fumbled. He never got hurt or even banged up.. and he did all of that on a rookie contract.

Now we’re paying five dudes to, collectively, not even give us what we already had in one guy.

Lies > Talent.

Integrity, cornerstones of the chise!

[TwistedChief]

I’m not attempting to discredit him. He’s better than what we have here. But our running game between the tackles wouldn’t materially improve. He got stoned at the line a lot and our interior OL isn’t moving anybody.

The difference is that he's the singular combination of all of our RBs. He has the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield like Damien, the explosiveness of Shady, and the ability to run between the tackles and grind out yards like Darrel/Ware. That's most important for this offense because you can put him on the field and he can fulfill any role. And the defense can't shade itself in a certain way because we're lining up one of our one-dimensional players in the backfield.

That's worth a ton in an offense that's dynamic like ours. And no stat will do it justice. It's like Watkins will never be worth his money but he opens up opportunities for Hill, etc etc.

No one is worried about the Chiefs running game, but if Hunt were back there, no one would be able to key in on anyone or anything on any snap.

I 100% think the Chiefs were right to release him. And he was growing into my favorite player. But damn, he was talented and an amazing fit for this offense.

[Pitt Gorilla]

The thing about Kareem is that he legitimately had everything you’d look for in a back.

He was big, strong, powerful, and had decent speed. He could run between and outside the tackles. He could catch the ball, he could block. He never fumbled. He never got hurt or even banged up.. and he did all of that on a rookie contract.

Now we’re paying five dudes to, collectively, not even give us what we already had in one guy.Honestly, his balance and vision might have been his best qualities.

[Imon Yourside]

Hunt is way better than any presents you may receive this time of year.

Stick that in your sock/stockings!

[Buehler445]

Is he worth $11 million to protect Patrick Mahomes? Because that's what improving the run game and pass pro would do.

Just because we made the wrong decision with his replacement doesn't mean we made the wrong decision with letting him go.

[comochiefsfan]

Good lord you’re stupid.

Just because you don’t think we should bring back Kareem doesn’t mean you have to devalue what he did here.

He was a top 5 back in the league here and is every bit as good as we remember.

[Buehler445]

The difference is that he's the singular combination of all of our RBs. He has the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield like Damien, the explosiveness of Shady, and the ability to run between the tackles and grind out yards like Darrel/Ware. That's most important for this offense because you can put him on the field and he can fulfill any role. And the defense can't shade itself in a certain way because we're lining up one of our one-dimensional players in the backfield.

That's worth a ton in an offense that's dynamic like ours. And no stat will do it justice. It's like Watkins will never be worth his money but he opens up opportunities for Hill, etc etc.

No one is worried about the Chiefs running game, but if Hunt were back there, no one would be able to key in on anyone or anything on any snap.

I 100% think the Chiefs were right to release him. And he was growing into my favorite player. But damn, he was talented and an amazing fit for this offense.

I'm on board with the one dimensional business, but I really can't agree that having Hunt back there would magically fix our capacity to run between the tackles. There just aren't any holes in the interior OL. And I saw Hunt get stoned at the line enough times to know that he wouldn't fix the problems we have.

Simple truth is that if we had a capable but unspectacular back, he'd get enough production up the middle if there were holes.

[Buehler445]

Good lord you’re stupid.

Just because you don’t think we should bring back Kareem doesn’t mean you have to devalue what he did here.

He was a top 5 back in the league here and is every bit as good as we remember.

I'm not the one suggesting that if Hunt were here all our running game problems would be fixed, and that is just incorrect.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I'm on board with the one dimensional business, but I really can't agree that having Hunt back there would magically fix our capacity to run between the tackles. There just aren't any holes in the interior OL. And I saw Hunt get stoned at the line enough times to know that he wouldn't fix the problems we have.

Simple truth is that if we had a capable but unspectacular back, he'd get enough production up the middle if there were holes.
Why did the holes disappear?

[ThaVirus]

Honestly, his balance and vision might have been his best qualities.


He had crazy balance. Probably the best I’ve seen.

[Buehler445]

Why did the holes disappear?

LDT has regressed. LG is terrible, C is terrible. Injuries, coaching, who knows? But one thing I do know is the performance of the OL when Hunt was here than it is now. And I saw Hunt get stoned at the line enough to know he can't make something out of nothing like Jamaal did. He certainly doesn't need the massive holes LJ did, but he can't deal with nothing.

[srvy]

OR, you could try staying out of threads with his name in the title. :shrug:

So massive head wound Mitch is why we can't get tough yards in short yardage situations? We couldn't get them with Morse when he wasn't in protocol unless we used gimmicks. Mitch was finesse we need maulers.

[MatriculatingHank]

"John Fogerty isn't as good as you remember"

- Other members of Creedence Clearwater Revival

[Marcellus]

Kareem on the team last year = Super Bowl


No Kareem last year no super bowl.


Fast forward to now and Kareem isn’t the same.

Negative ghost rider. Williams was great in he AFCCG. That’s just revisionist history.

[Marcellus]

BTW since being reinstated he has led the league in avg yards after contact.

Would be great to have him but it is what it is. He got himself cut, period.

[hinde58]

Two things:
1. He's absolutely better than you're giving him credit for
2. He's absolutely not coming back

That's really all there is to say.


THIS EXACTLY

[Pitt Gorilla]

BTW since being reinstated he has led the league in avg yards after contact.

Would be great to have him but it is what it is. He got himself cut, period.Yeah, here's a bunch of cases of him getting stuffed in the hole (per the OP):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xDi0h2p_QMs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MahiMike]

Were Hunt still on the team, He's still a top 5 back in the way that Reid schemes. The stretches, tossed etc, those all end up positive gains, and even with this weak interior, hes still a 4.0 avg in there. Offense is better if Hunt were the starter.

Ball security would be eliminated as a worry as well.

It sucks he had to take his career here, put it on its knees and put a bullet in the back of its head.

But hey, thug life yo. Gotta represent.

Well, if Hunt were still on the team, he'd get 90% of the carries too.

[Coochie liquor]

Kareem on the team last year = Super Bowl


No Kareem last year no super bowl.


Fast forward to now and Kareem isn’t the same.

Kareem would have told Dee Ford where to line up?

[Megatron96]

I thought for a minute that maybe Kareem wasn't as good as I remembered. Then I saw him play for the Browns and it was obvious; yes, he was definitely a top-10 RB.

And this whole narrative of him getting "stoned" sometimes is stupid; every running back gets stoned sometimes. It's called the NFL. Defensive players get paid too. Show me a top-10 RB in any season that hasn't gotten stopped for a loss before. FFS, Barry Sanders has more negative yard rushes than any RB in league history. Tell me that he was trash . . .

dumbasses.

[NJChiefsFan]

As far as moving forward goes, I'm not adding Hunt or any other FA RB if the cost isn't right. Paying for or investing high draft capital in RB doesn't work. I know that isn't a new take or anything.

I did look up such RB for this year just out of curiosity.

Top 5 paid running backs plus those taken top 15 in the draft since 2014 we have
Elliot
Gurley
Johnson
Bell
Freeman
Gordon
McCafferey
Barkley
Fournette

Those teams have a combined record of 51-83-1 this year.

[BryanBusby]

Is he worth $11 million to protect Patrick Mahomes? Because that's what improving the run game and pass pro would do.
How would he protect Pat from the bench, exactly?

[Bump]

Kareem Hunt was a straight up beast for us, wtf?

[rydogg58]

Kareem Hunt was a straight up beast for us, wtf?

Yeah, we were a much better football team with him, than without. And we would be a much better team RIGHT now with him. But he's never coming back. I get the fascination Chiefs fans have with Hunt, but there's not even a remote chance in hell that he'll ever play another down in a Chiefs uniform again.

If you think Clark Hunt would agree to take him back after all the shit that happened then you're delusional. I honestly don't care that he smacked some drunk skank around. It's not my daughter, he's not a personal friend of mine. Don't care. I don't care that he did/didn't lie about it. Don't care. But I'm not the owner of the Chiefs, Clark is. He's the one that cares about the image, and that's all that matters.

[lcarus]

You can make the argument our run game would still be lacking even with Kareem. What I miss about him the most is what he brought as a receiver out of the backfield.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Yeah, we were a much better football team with him, than without. And we would be a much better team RIGHT now with him. But he's never coming back. I get the fascination Chiefs fans have with Hunt, but there's not even a remote chance in hell that he'll ever play another down in a Chiefs uniform again.

If you think Clark Hunt would agree to take him back after all the shit that happened then you're delusional. I honestly don't care that he smacked some drunk skank around. It's not my daughter, he's not a personal friend of mine. Don't care. I don't care that he did/didn't lie about it. Don't care. But I'm not the owner of the Chiefs, Clark is. He's the one that cares about the image, and that's all that matters.at some point, it would be awesome if Clark decided to put winning at 1a on the priority list.

[Red Dawg]

Hunt is a very good RB
I wish we had him back.

[Valiant]

I would take him back for a two year deal for okay money. But would not break the bank. Darwin should also be getting touches. Great 1.2.

[srvy]

Yeah, here's a bunch of cases of him getting stuffed in the hole (per the OP):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xDi0h2p_QMs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This video didnt prove anything to OP original post. It was a lot of what we knew Hunt could do aka catching the ball running tough on 1st and 2nd down when D is playing straight run/pass. The tough yards to grind out yards on ground to zero the clock to win a game we have never been good at with Andy. When you wind up in 3rd and 1 or 2 and the bigs are in bunched up to stop the run not to mention goal line. Thats what OP is talking about we struggled with Hunt and we still struggle to this day. I feel a lot of it is the type linemen Andy likes and his blocking schemes.

[Warrick]

I wish CP would adopt a thumbs down/up on the OP for threads like these. And do something in conjunction with it to losing thread starting privileges.

[Buehler445]

I thought for a minute that maybe Kareem wasn't as good as I remembered. Then I saw him play for the Browns and it was obvious; yes, he was definitely a top-10 RB.

And this whole narrative of him getting "stoned" sometimes is stupid; every running back gets stoned sometimes. It's called the NFL. Defensive players get paid too. Show me a top-10 RB in any season that hasn't gotten stopped for a loss before. FFS, Barry Sanders has more negative yard rushes than any RB in league history. Tell me that he was trash . . .

dumbasses.

Right. Go ahead and believe that Kareem Hunt will make his own holes. Top 10 running backs have fucking shit games when the OL is overmatched. But go ahead. Do you man.

Dumbass.

[KChiefs1]

Kareem could get those extra hard years between the tackles last year that our boys can’t get this year.

Second. He doesn’t like to fumble like McCoy does.


That’s the two traits that I miss about him.

[Easy 6]

He was pretty damn good here, I'm not gonna knock his productivity... but this constant hand wringing and pining for his return is turning my stomach

Good backs are practically dime a dozen these days, no chance in hell Veach gives up draft compensation or big free agent money to bring this guy back... fuck that

Go draft another kid, then let Reid and Mahomes turn him into another star

[Mahomes_Is_God]

He misses us and is home sick. Poor thing, we need to bring him back.

[cooper barrett]

Hill doesn't seem yo be sending fireworks off every time the ball gets near him either

I could bury this in a Kareem thread, but it wouldn't prevent you weirdos from making more goddamned threads.

Here's the thing, Kareem was really good in space which our guys aren't getting. He wasn't really elite between the tackles, like say a Jamaal Charles who could make something out of not a goddamned thing. He got stoned at the line A LOT. He'd make it up with giant plays in space, but Damien is pretty damned good in space too. Sure, he liked to dish out punishment....in space. He got yards between the tackles, but our OL wasn't the waste of ass this one is. The hard nosed running didn't equate to him overcoming shit OL - which we didn't have at the time.

Sure he's better than our guys. But that improvement wouldn't equate to material improvement in our weaknesses.

Bottom line is this, Kareem Hunt switched out for Shady or Darrell or whomever wouldn't make a material difference. Accordingly, pining for him is not only an exercise in futility, but wouldn't materially affect our weaknesses.

[htismaqe]

So, the biggest difference is the absence of Mitch Morse? Perhaps he was worth a new contract?

Hard for him to sign a contract. Ice water tends to smear the ink.

[Bump]

Yeah, we were a much better football team with him, than without. And we would be a much better team RIGHT now with him. But he's never coming back. I get the fascination Chiefs fans have with Hunt, but there's not even a remote chance in hell that he'll ever play another down in a Chiefs uniform again.

If you think Clark Hunt would agree to take him back after all the shit that happened then you're delusional. I honestly don't care that he smacked some drunk skank around. It's not my daughter, he's not a personal friend of mine. Don't care. I don't care that he did/didn't lie about it. Don't care. But I'm not the owner of the Chiefs, Clark is. He's the one that cares about the image, and that's all that matters.

when did I ever say that he's coming or should come back lol?

[htismaqe]

at some point, it would be awesome if Clark decided to put winning at 1a on the priority list.

It’s amazing how people just put on their blinders and pretend Jovan Belcher never happened.

[rydogg58]

when did I ever say that he's coming or should come back lol?

My bad, I didn't mean to imply that's what you said. I was just agreeing that Hunt was awesome while he was here.

[Megatron96]

Right. Go ahead and believe that Kareem Hunt will make his own holes. Top 10 running backs have ****ing shit games when the OL is overmatched. But go ahead. Do you man.

Dumbass.

Where in my post did I say that Kareem hunt could make his own holes? I’m pretty damn sure I said the exact opposite of that. My point was that Kareem was/is good enough to make a difference given a realistic chance due to his physical ability and vision. And once he got to the point of attack his natural violence could make a difference. You seem to think that Damien could do the same things which is just untrue. And the very least Kareem has far better vision than Damien which is the difference between getting the first down and getting a couple yards.

Dipstick.

[RetiredSeniorChief]

Kareem on the team last year = Super Bowl


No Kareem last year no super bowl.


Fast forward to now and Kareem isn’t the same.

Was he supposed to play defense? Because it was the terrible D that cost the AFCCG.

[Buehler445]

Where in my post did I say that Kareem hunt could make his own holes? I’m pretty damn sure I said the exact opposite of that. My point was that Kareem was/is good enough to make a difference given a realistic chance due to his physical ability and vision. And once he got to the point of attack his natural violence could make a difference. You seem to think that Damien could do the same things which is just untrue. And the very least Kareem has far better vision than Damien which is the difference between getting the first down and getting a couple yards.

Dipstick.

Did you even read the thread? My original position was that while Kareem is better than what we have, it won't make a difference because the Interior OL sucks. Without holes = no running between the tackles.

Then you hop on and post this.

I thought for a minute that maybe Kareem wasn't as good as I remembered. Then I saw him play for the Browns and it was obvious; yes, he was definitely a top-10 RB.

And this whole narrative of him getting "stoned" sometimes is stupid; every running back gets stoned sometimes. It's called the NFL. Defensive players get paid too. Show me a top-10 RB in any season that hasn't gotten stopped for a loss before. FFS, Barry Sanders has more negative yard rushes than any RB in league history. Tell me that he was trash . . .

dumbasses.

Not really the best post, but essentially boils down to "NOPE OP WRONG BECAUSE CLEVELAND". So if my original position makes me a dumbass, one would logically conclude that you disagreed with my original position. If my original position was wrong, logic would dictate that Kareem can make his own holes.

You know, logic.

And I'm the dipstick? Christ almighty. I fully acknowledged that I should have titled this thread "PSA: Kareem wouldn't help our running game." But fucking hell, between this thread and the time of possession thread I posted after the Houston game there are a lot of dudes angrily holding onto intergallactically stupid positions.

[saphojunkie]

This thread is stupid. Watch the tape. Hunt was so much better than I wanted to admit.

[Buehler445]

This thread is stupid. Watch the tape. Hunt was so much better than I wanted to admit.

He’s better than what we have. Still wouldn’t make a difference because we can’t move anyone on the interior OL. That’s the whole point. As much better as he is would largely be wasted because we can’t make a hole.

And Therein lies the rub. If he doesn’t have a hole he’s not good.

[Warrick]

He’s better than what we have. Still wouldn’t make a difference because we can’t move anyone on the interior OL. That’s the whole point. As much better as he is would largely be wasted because we can’t make a hole.

And Therein lies the rub. If he doesn’t have a hole he’s not good.

Your memory isn't as good as it used to be pops... Please rewatch some of his videos and recognize that he is a specialist in making people miss, not only can he jump over you, but he run through you, as well as juke you out of your socks. Also, the kid is going to have some rust for being out as long as he was, be patient and wait for it... It's a matter of time before he makes you look stupid... Oh wait, too late!

[UK_Chief]

If he’s better than what we have, sounds like he’d improve the team to me

[Warrick]

If he’s better than what we have, sounds like he’d improve the team to me

Common sense is not permitted, just ask B445. :LOL:

[Buehler445]

Your memory isn't as good as it used to be pops... Please rewatch some of his videos and recognize that he is a specialist in making people miss, not only can he jump over you, but he run through you, as well as juke you out of your socks. Also, the kid is going to have some rust for being out as long as he was, be patient and wait for it... It's a matter of time before he makes you look stupid... Oh wait, too late!

Yes. All those things you listed he does IN SPACE. Those skills, while impressive won’t help rushing between the tackles which is where we have trouble. So while he is better than what we have it wouldn’t help us. Which, you know, if you’d read my goddamned post you’d understand. Unless of course you’re too stupid.

[Buehler445]

If he’s better than what we have, sounds like he’d improve the team to me

Not materially. We still wouldn’t be able to run between the tackles. And we still wouldn’t be able to pick up the tough yards in tough situations. So Mahomes and the pass catchers will still have to provide the high leverage plays, which would of course mean that we were still one dimensional.

tl;dr: Not materially.

[Buehler445]

Common sense is not permitted, just ask B445. :LOL:

Nuance and objective analysis is not permitted. Just ask Warrick :LOL:

[Megatron96]

Did you even read the thread? My original position was that while Kareem is better than what we have, it won't make a difference because the Interior OL sucks. Without holes = no running between the tackles.

Then you hop on and post this.



Not really the best post, but essentially boils down to "NOPE OP WRONG BECAUSE CLEVELAND". So if my original position makes me a dumbass, one would logically conclude that you disagreed with my original position. If my original position was wrong, logic would dictate that Kareem can make his own holes.

You know, logic.

And I'm the dipstick? Christ almighty. I fully acknowledged that I should have titled this thread "PSA: Kareem wouldn't help our running game." But ****ing hell, between this thread and the time of possession thread I posted after the Houston game there are a lot of dudes angrily holding onto intergallactically stupid positions.

Whatever. I was drinking when I posted that shit. Merry Christmas dipstick.

[Buehler445]

Whatever. I was drinking when I posted that shit. Merry Christmas dipstick.

LOL. Fair enough.

Same to you man.

[Warrick]

He can run truck your ass between the tackles, as well as make you miss... He's done it time and time again. You obviously need to go watch the tape again.

[Buehler445]

He can run truck your ass between the tackles, as well as make you miss... He's done it time and time again. You obviously need to go watch the tape again.

So you’re really asserting that he doesn’t need production from the OL to run between the tackles?

I guess there isn’t really anything left for me to say.

[Buehler445]

He’s better than what we have. Still wouldn’t make a difference because we can’t move anyone on the interior OL. That’s the whole point. As much better as he is would largely be wasted because we can’t make a hole.

And Therein lies the rub. If he doesn’t have a hole he’s not good.

LOL. I got a random rep from this post this morning. Dumbfucks overreaction to an obvious statement is apparently still funny.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Hunt averaged 4.7 a carry as a Chief that is studly. He was better than anyone they have had since and it's real obvious.

[tyecopeland]

at some point, it would be awesome if Clark decided to put winning at 1a on the priority list.

Yeah. That would be awesome... We wont be able to win a super bowl without a guy who lies to team officials about the stupid shit hes done. Oh, wait. Guess we can prioritize both winning and not keeping people like that on the roster.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Kareem Hunt Signs 2nd-Round Tender with Browns After RFA Deadline Passes

https://apple.news/A2Xj5B1lPRWuiyHct3BnjXw

[Titty Meat]

Pitt Gorilla still going batty over this loser?

[BryanBusby]

Pitt Gorilla still going batty over this loser?

If OnLy ClArK cArEd AbOuT wInNiNg

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Hunt was a total stud that mauled defenses in a number of ways. He could run over you, slip by you with excellent contact balance, push the whole pile by himself, even jump over you. No, nobody on this team can hang with Hunt. But D Will is a good player.

[Rain Man]

I bet he often thinks back to that party in his hotel and wonders what might have been.

Or maybe he doesn't, and he just has more parties in his hotel. It could go either way.

[TinyEvel]

Yeah but what about the traffic stop where he admitted he had weed, did he get charged for that? Is there another suspension coming?

[tredadda]

Honestly his loss wasn’t that significant looking back. Two years ago we lost the AFCCG because of our defense. Doubt he would have changed the outcome of that game (54-51 loss to the Rams validates that). Clearly he didn’t impact our ability to win the SB this year. All things considered the only value he would really provide at this point is possibly a draft pick if we traded him as he would be due an extension which this team would not have been able to afford.

[Couch-Potato]

I dont recall JC being great between the tackles, I recall him getting toss after toss to the outside. It was crazy that you knew it was coming but he'd still get around the corner and make you pay somehow.

[FAX]

Frickin' wick-lickin', chick-kickin', brick-thick, sick, 3rd-round dick-stick.

I don't care for that type.

FAX

[carcosa]

Just rewatched the Super Bowl and Damien Williams really was fantastic throughout the game. In addition to some electric runs, he had a huge blitz pickup in the 4th that allowed Patrick to make a crucial throw. I'll never complain about Patrick winning MVP, but Damien deserved it just as much.

Not sure who this Kareem guy is

[LiveSteam]

The last 3rd of the season I thought the magic of jelling as a unit, started to take over on both sides of the ball at several positions. Including RB

[Buehler445]

I dont recall JC being great between the tackles, I recall him getting toss after toss to the outside. It was crazy that you knew it was coming but he'd still get around the corner and make you pay somehow.

He was fucking remarkable. LJ was getting nothing and JC would just squirt through tiny cracks and embarrass fools in space. Charles was really great. The best we’ve had. And he was ducking squandered by fools.

[Chiefspants]

Hunt averaged 4.7 a carry as a Chief that is studly. He was better than anyone they have had since and it's real obvious.

Hunt is slightly overrated around here. Is he better than Damien Williams overall? Yes. But is Damien capable of replicating his production - absolutely.

I’ve posted this before, but here are Damien’s stats since he started in Kareem’s place against the Chargers last year. In that span Damien has played in 19 games and started 14 times. Since Damien split the load in the majority of those starts, I decided to compare his numbers to Kareem’s final season and last three full starts in 2017 (excluding Denver, where he only had one carry).

Damien
Car Yards AVG TD Rec Yards TD Games Starts
226 1056 4.67 14 65 427 7 19 14

Kareem
245 1102 4.49 10 40 449 8 14 14

Honestly - it’s incredible to see those similarities. Damien hasn’t shown he can survive a full 16 game season so because of that I won’t mind if they draft a running back - but Kareem would get shut down and disappear in games more often than we remember. I understood missing Kareem the player, but he made mistake after mistake and if Reid said they couldn’t trust him - that was good enough for me. After the Super Bowl, I’m on the “Kareem who?” train - because we got a franchise performance from our running back that was worthy of an MVP award.

[Rasputin]

Hunt is slightly overrated around here. Is he better than Damien Williams overall? Yes. But can is Damien capable of replicating his production - absolutely.

I’ve posted this before, but here are Damien’s stats since he started in Kareem’s place against the Chargers last year. In that span Damien has played in 19 games and started 14 times. Since Damien split the load in the majority of those starts, I decided to compare his numbers to Kareem’s final season and last three full starts in 2017 (excluding Denver, where he only had one carry).

Damien
Car Yards AVG TD Rec Yards TD Games Starts
226 1056 4.67 14 65 427 7 19 14

Kareem
245 1102 4.49 10 40 449 8 14 14

Honestly - it’s incredible to see those similarities. Damien hasn’t shown he can survive a full 16 game season so because of that I won’t mind if they draft a running back - but Kareem would get shut down and disappear in games more often than we remember. I understood missing Kareem the player, but he made mistake after mistake and if Reid said they couldn’t trust him - that was good enough for me. After the Super Bowl, I’m on the “Kareem who?” train - because we got a franchise performance from our running back that was worthy of an MVP award.


Same here and Andy Reid is a guy who takes troubled players in under his wing and if he can't conform them then they really are a lost cause. He took Tyreek Hill and made him become a man and we got to see a guy really grow up as a man that you can respect. Can't respect Hunt nor trust him and he could get suspended half or a full season next time and there will be a next time he does something stupid.

[suzzer99]

Hunt was a total stud that mauled defenses in a number of ways. He could run over you, slip by you with excellent contact balance, push the whole pile by himself, even jump over you. No, nobody on this team can hang with Hunt. But D Will is a good player.

D Will is at his best in the biggest situations. We'll never really know if Kareem Hunt was or not.

I missed Kareem Hunt so bad. But man if Williams didn't prove that running backs are mostly replaceable.

I just watched all 3 of our 2019 postseason games on my exercise bike, which means I was watching them sober for the first time. Williams made some serious plays - including a lot of first downs where he made people miss and got it all on his own. The dude is a stud when it matters most.

[suzzer99]

Just rewatched the Super Bowl and Damien Williams really was fantastic throughout the game. In addition to some electric runs, he had a huge blitz pickup in the 4th that allowed Patrick to make a crucial throw. I'll never complain about Patrick winning MVP, but Damien deserved it just as much.

Not sure who this Kareem guy is

And he could have easily dropped that errant snap on the Rose Bowl play. But he grabbed it in stride and got the first down. Could have been a huge turning point in the game if he botched that.

[DTVietnam]

Kareem Hunt is on a different level talent wise..too bad he's a head case and its ruining his career .

Damien is great...and perfect for our system. . too bad for the injuries. .


different level:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WHhk1L8QGoY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[suzzer99]

Kareem did have an amazing ability to just bounce of tackles and keep going. Perfect balance. And he never fumbled - something the Chiefs struggled with a lot in 2019.

[MeaTy The Pimp]

And he never fumbled - something the Chiefs struggled with a lot in 2019.

Wouldn't it be more fair to say that it was Shady that struggled alot with it in 2019.

[tyecopeland]

Hunt is slightly overrated around here. Is he better than Damien Williams overall? Yes. But can is Damien capable of replicating his production - absolutely.

I’ve posted this before, but here are Damien’s stats since he started in Kareem’s place against the Chargers last year. In that span Damien has played in 19 games and started 14 times. Since Damien split the load in the majority of those starts, I decided to compare his numbers to Kareem’s final season and last three full starts in 2017 (excluding Denver, where he only had one carry).

Damien
Car Yards AVG TD Rec Yards TD Games Starts
226 1056 4.67 14 65 427 7 19 14

Kareem
245 1102 4.49 10 40 449 8 14 14

Honestly - it’s incredible to see those similarities. Damien hasn’t shown he can survive a full 16 game season so because of that I won’t mind if they draft a running back - but Kareem would get shut down and disappear in games more often than we remember. I understood missing Kareem the player, but he made mistake after mistake and if Reid said they couldn’t trust him - that was good enough for me. After the Super Bowl, I’m on the “Kareem who?” train - because we got a franchise performance from our running back that was worthy of an MVP award.

But according to some on here you have to take away all of damien's long runs because they dont count for some reason.

[Chris Meck]

These statements are fact:

Kareem Hunt is a really good running back.

Damien Williams has shown that he's unlikely to stay healthy for a full season.


This statement is also a fact:

Though it doesn't show up on stat lines, offensive line play is a major key to a successful running game.

This statement is objective opinion:

The offensive line really struggled in 2019 due to injuries and under-performance, especially on the interior.

My subjective opinion: Upgrading the interior line from LG across to RG would 1)help the running game and 2)help keep Mahomes from getting hit and therefore help the passing game too.

Not doing that is going to mean another season of sub-par rushing stats and perhaps Mahomes getting killed again.

[Red Dawg]

Hunt was a bad ass.

[MahomesMagic]

These statements are fact:

Kareem Hunt is a really good running back.

Damien Williams has shown that he's unlikely to stay healthy for a full season.


This statement is also a fact:

Though it doesn't show up on stat lines, offensive line play is a major key to a successful running game.

This statement is objective opinion:

The offensive line really struggled in 2019 due to injuries and under-performance, especially on the interior.

My subjective opinion: Upgrading the interior line from LG across to RG would 1)help the running game and 2)help keep Mahomes from getting hit and therefore help the passing game too.

Not doing that is going to mean another season of sub-par rushing stats and perhaps Mahomes getting killed again.


I agree. Adding one star player into the interior of the OL would make a huge difference in pass-protection and running.

Proof?

Look at the Saints who have one good WR and Kamara with a QB that can barely throw the ball 20 yards. That offense works because they have a stacked OL. They grabbed McCoy in the 2nd last year and he graded out at 76.2 on PFF as a rookie.

[ThaVirus]

I dont recall JC being great between the tackles, I recall him getting toss after toss to the outside. It was crazy that you knew it was coming but he'd still get around the corner and make you pay somehow.

Charles was great between the tackles. He had incredible vision and he ran harder than people give him credit for.

[Chiefshrink]

No Kareem Ford last year no =super bowl.


FYP:thumb:

[RealSNR]

Pitt Gorilla, you need to fucking stop with this "Chief fan blah blah eats babies" crap.

It's always some shit with you. How not enough people firmly stood with Tyreek Hill in the immediate aftermath of those new accusations last March. How Chief fan doesn't care about the CB position and how we're going to get gashed. Everything for you is "Chief fan is stupid."

Well here we are, and we've got Chief fan pining for Kareem Hunt. Chief fan is stupid, wouldn't you say?

Fucking stop it, man.

[RealSNR]

Just rewatched the Super Bowl and Damien Williams really was fantastic throughout the game. In addition to some electric runs, he had a huge blitz pickup in the 4th that allowed Patrick to make a crucial throw. I'll never complain about Patrick winning MVP, but Damien deserved it just as much.

Not sure who this Kareem guy is

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[PAChiefsGuy]

Hunt was a bad ass.

Yeah he was. He would always do great against the Pats too.

[Spott]

Hunt is slightly overrated around here. Is he better than Damien Williams overall? Yes. But can is Damien capable of replicating his production - absolutely.

I’ve posted this before, but here are Damien’s stats since he started in Kareem’s place against the Chargers last year. In that span Damien has played in 19 games and started 14 times. Since Damien split the load in the majority of those starts, I decided to compare his numbers to Kareem’s final season and last three full starts in 2017 (excluding Denver, where he only had one carry).

Damien
Car Yards AVG TD Rec Yards TD Games Starts
226 1056 4.67 14 65 427 7 19 14

Kareem
245 1102 4.49 10 40 449 8 14 14

Honestly - it’s incredible to see those similarities. Damien hasn’t shown he can survive a full 16 game season so because of that I won’t mind if they draft a running back - but Kareem would get shut down and disappear in games more often than we remember. I understood missing Kareem the player, but he made mistake after mistake and if Reid said they couldn’t trust him - that was good enough for me. After the Super Bowl, I’m on the “Kareem who?” train - because we got a franchise performance from our running back that was worthy of an MVP award.

It’s hard to compare those stats when most of Hunt’s career was with Smith as the QB and all of Williams has been with Mahomes. Maybe a better representation would be how well the two RB’s played with Mahomes and how well the offense has played as a whole with each RB.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Hunt is better than you remember

[RealSNR]

Kareem Hunt was a great RB.

Yeah, and Joe Paterno was a great coach.

Fuck Kareem Hunt.

[DTVietnam]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Browns Re-Signing RFA RB Kareem Hunt <a href="https://t.co/RTxkOXOweZ">https://t.co/RTxkOXOweZ</a> <a href="https://t.co/wfd6oAl7XZ">pic.twitter.com/wfd6oAl7XZ</a></p>&mdash; NFLTradeRumors.co (@nfltrade_rumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfltrade_rumors/status/1251260537662582784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Buehler445]

Kareem Hunt was a great RB.

Yeah, and Joe Paterno was a great coach.

Fuck Kareem Hunt.

ROFL

[Chiefspants]

It’s hard to compare those stats when most of Hunt’s career was with Smith as the QB and all of Williams has been with Mahomes. Maybe a better representation would be how well the two RB’s played with Mahomes and how well the offense has played as a whole with each RB.

11 out of those 14 games Kareem had Mahomes as his QB, not Smith.

Kareem’s rushing stats actually had a noticeable regression with Mahomes (and he had a better offensive line than Damien had this year)

[DaneMcCloud]

There is no comparison between Kareem Hunt and Damien Williams.

Hunt was always available and was among the best running backs in the league.

Damien Williams availability has been sporadic and since he's never been a 16 game feature back, any comparison lacks the pertinent data and is therefore, incomplete at best.

[tyecopeland]

There is no comparison between Kareem Hunt and Damien Williams.

Hunt was always available and was among the best running backs in the league.

Damien Williams availability has been sporadic and since he's never been a 16 game feature back, any comparison lacks the pertinent data and is therefore, incomplete at best.

Except for the 8 games he was suspended to start this year and the last 5 weeks of the previous year and the playoff run for which he would have been on the commish exempt list for the entirety of.

[Rain Man]

Just rewatched the Super Bowl and Damien Williams really was fantastic throughout the game. In addition to some electric runs, he had a huge blitz pickup in the 4th that allowed Patrick to make a crucial throw. I'll never complain about Patrick winning MVP, but Damien deserved it just as much.

Not sure who this Kareem guy is

Yeah, I watched it again the other day, and he played amazingly. We remember the touchdowns, but he was making great plays consistently. He and Watkins and Nnadi were three guys who really stood out to me, and Fuller's last two minutes were (other than maybe the long overthrow) the best two minutes a defensive back could play.

[crispystl]

I dont recall JC being great between the tackles, I recall him getting toss after toss to the outside. It was crazy that you knew it was coming but he'd still get around the corner and make you pay somehow.


He had a weird way of “sliding” through contact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crispystl]

He was fucking remarkable. LJ was getting nothing and JC would just squirt through tiny cracks and embarrass fools in space. Charles was really great. The best we’ve had. And he was ducking squandered by fools.


“Squirt through” is a good way to put it. Would make himself very small and just explode out of cracks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaneMcCloud]

Except for the 8 games he was suspended to start this year and the last 5 weeks of the previous year and the playoff run for which he would have been on the commish exempt list for the entirety of.

Was he on the Chiefs roster during that time? Was he injured?

Your post makes zero sense in the context of this conversation, Otto.

[FAX]

One of Jamaal's best runs was up the middle (although, it might have been a designed sweep that he cut back). It was versus the Browns and went for 80 yards and a TD. I think it was the first play of the game. He liked the backside trap play, I think. This one was right through the A gap.

He was a lot tougher than people seem to be making him out to be.

Hard to compare ... Jamaal didn't break tackles like Hunt, but you couldn't touch him, either.

FAX

[tyecopeland]

JC > Hunt > Priest > Damien

[Spott]

11 out of those 14 games Kareem had Mahomes as his QB, not Smith.

Kareem’s rushing stats actually had a noticeable regression with Mahomes (and he had a better offensive line than Damien had this year)

If you go by those 11 games that each played with Mahomes, the offense averaged almost 37 points per game with Hunt and 27 with Williams as the starter. Williams has done great as a fill in for Hunt, especially during the playoffs, but having Hunt in this offense made it nearly unstoppable.

[Buehler445]

One of Jamaal's best runs was up the middle (although, it might have been a designed sweep that he cut back). It was versus the Browns and went for 80 yards and a TD. I think it was the first play of the game. He liked the backside trap play, I think. This one was right through the A gap.

He was a lot tougher than people seem to be making him out to be.

Hard to compare ... Jamaal didn't break tackles like Hunt, but you couldn't touch him, either.

FAX

I think what you’re saying is he wouldn’t run through contact like Hunt would. Goddamn Charles would change direction so fast linebackers would either miss or get an arm on him, leading to a missed tackle. He caused waaay more missed tackles than Hunt.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Not to take anything away from Priest, but could you imagine Charles behind the line Priest played with? Or Hunt?

[Ubeja Vontell]

The Chiefs have had no less than 10 1000 rushers in their history, Hunt the last one and he was/is a stud.

I'm thinking the AFC West has had more 1000 yard rushers on those four teams than any other division. What...40ish?

[Chiefspants]

There is no comparison between Kareem Hunt and Damien Williams.

Hunt was always available and was among the best running backs in the league.

Damien Williams availability has been sporadic and since he's never been a 16 game feature back, any comparison lacks the pertinent data and is therefore, incomplete at best.

I have never argued Hunt’s durability as making him clearly superior than Williams. Hunt is still overrated on this forum inho, though.

If you go by those 11 games that each played with Mahomes, the offense averaged almost 37 points per game with Hunt and 27 with Williams as the starter. Williams has done great as a fill in for Hunt, especially during the playoffs, but having Hunt in this offense made it nearly unstoppable.

That’ll always be a correlation/causation thing for me. While Hunt maaaay have been the reason for that, it’s just as likely defenses hadn’t settled on Cover 1 Rat and Cover 3 as being counters for the Mahomes/Reid offense.

Yeah, I watched it again the other day, and he played amazingly. We remember the touchdowns, but he was making great plays consistently. He and Watkins and Nnadi were three guys who really stood out to me, and Fuller's last two minutes were (other than maybe the long overthrow) the best two minutes a defensive back could play.

That was due to Fenton. He was never supposed to cover Sanders on that play (his responsibility was Bourne). When Fenton covered Sanders, it left Bourne wide open in the middle of the field, which is why Fuller did a 180 to cover Bourne (and why Sanders blew through the coverage).

[RealSNR]

At least Chiefs fans aren't as retarded as Seahawk fans, who gave their tough-to-tackle RB the nickname "beast mode". We're more creative than that.

Good for us, I guess.

[Jewish Rabbi]

You will never convince me that the Chiefs wouldn’t have won in 2018 as well if Hunt wasn’t a complete dipshit and didn’t get kicked off the team.

[Ubeja Vontell]

At least Chiefs fans aren't as retarded as Seahawk fans, who gave their tough-to-tackle RB the nickname "beast mode". We're more creative than that.

Good for us, I guess.

Robert "Tank" Holmes
Mack "Truck" Lee Hill

[cripple creek]

yeah,:rolleyes: the op's psa is about as accurate as the anti-weed psa's that equated getting high with getting kicked in the shin by a mule/donkey

[DaneMcCloud]

I have never argued Hunt’s durability as making him clearly superior than Williams. Hunt is still overrated on this forum inho, though

Agree to disagree, Broham. IMO, Kareem Hunt is underrated by people on this site.

I mean, holy crap, a guy that rushes for 1,327 yards and 8 rushing TD's while adding another 4 TD's and 455 receiving yards his rookie season, is somehow overrated?

Then, he follows it up with 824 yards and 7 TD's on the ground with 378 receiving yards and another 7 TD's in 11 games is somehow overrated?

What does it take for a running back to be "rated", in your opinion?

How can a guy that has 2,984 yards and 26 TD's in 27 regular games be overrated?

[RealSNR]

Do you think Kareem Hunt enjoys playing second violin to Nick Chubb?

I hope he does. Apparently that's all he's good for these days.

[DaneMcCloud]

Do you think Kareem Hunt enjoys playing second violin to Nick Chubb?

I hope he does. Apparently that's all he's good for these days.

Freddie Kitchens is a moron

[FAX]

Kareem Hunt is a moron, too.

They should have experienced excellent communication and established a lifelong bond.

FAX

[Demonpenz]

JC>LJ>Hunt>Priest>Williams

[Chiefspants]

Agree to disagree, Broham. IMO, Kareem Hunt is underrated by people on this site.

I mean, holy crap, a guy that rushes for 1,327 yards and 8 rushing TD's while adding another 4 TD's and 455 receiving yards his rookie season, is somehow overrated?


I will never dispute his incredible rookie year. Hunt was unstoppable and Reid should have run the offense through him (rather than Alex) in the playoffs.

Why I think he’s overrated is not due to his own talent, but his effectiveness in context with our overall offense. Some folks on Chiefsplanet extrapolate his one full season and seem to think he was always that effective. When, in truth, the Chiefs had zero issues replicating his 2018 production in the 2018 and 2019 postseasons. In fact, Damien has outdone Kareem’s performance against the Titans in every single postseason game Damien’s played one and still struggles to get love around these parts. Kareem is talked about as though he put the offense on a quantitatively higher stratosphere but outside of the 37 ppg argument (and again, I think that could be a case of correlation vs. causation) there’s really no statistic that backs that up. Lastly -

JC>LJ>Hunt>Priest>Williams

I love Penz takes, but I’ve seen folks argue Hunt was superior to Priest and even that he was on the same level as JC - and since Kareem only managed to make it though one full year with us, I just don’t see it.

I’m still not denying his talent or durability - he was amazing to watch, but I think Reid had little issue adjusting the offense without him.

[Rasputin]

JC>LJ>Hunt>Priest>Williams

Of these I wouldn't want to tackle Christian Okoye in the very least. Then I wouldn't want to tackle LJ or Williams but I'd probably wiff on JC and Hunt and Priest would eat my nachos.

[Abba-Dabba]

Freddie Kitchens is a moron

No doubt.

Imagine wasting a year of your body in a Freddie Kitchens offense as the main RB. No thanks. Have at it, Chubb.

[Buehler445]

Of these I wouldn't want to tackle Christian Okoye in the very least. Then I wouldn't want to tackle LJ or Williams but I'd probably wiff on JC and Hunt and Priest would eat my nachos.

Real talk: at my absolute best I don’t get anything but a hand on any of them unless LJ is still in hate everyone mode and runs right at me. In which case death is a real possibility.

[Chiefspants]

In 2005, would you have preferred...

The Chiefs make the playoffs as a sixth seed and beat Cincinnati 27-20 and Indianapolis 28-20 (with LJ channeling Derrick Henry) but losing @ Denver in the AFC Championship game and giving Denver the Super Bowl.

Or...

The outcome we got, Steelers getting the 6th seed and winning it all.

That 2005 team was fun to watch and peaking at the right time - but man Vermeil was snakebit in Mile High. Even his best teams seemed to get rocked at Invesco. I don’t know if that 2005 team, at its best, manages to pull it off.

[FAX]

In 2005, would you have preferred...

The Chiefs make the playoffs as a sixth seed and beat Cincinnati 27-20 and Indianapolis 28-20 (with LJ channeling Derrick Henry) but losing @ Denver in the AFC Championship game and giving Denver the Super Bowl.

Or...

The outcome we got, Steelers getting the 6th seed and winning it all.

That 2005 team was fun to watch and peaking at the right time - but man Vermeil was snakebit in Mile High. Even his best teams seemed to get rocked at Invesco. I don’t know if that 2005 team, at its best, manages to pull it off.

This is a choice from hell.

FAX

[DaneMcCloud]

I will never dispute his incredible rookie year. Hunt was unstoppable and Reid should have run the offense through him (rather than Alex) in the playoffs.

Why I think he’s overrated is not due to his own talent, but his effectiveness in context with our overall offense. Some folks on Chiefsplanet extrapolate his one full season and seem to think he was always that effective. When, in truth, the Chiefs had zero issues replicating his 2018 production in the 2018 and 2019 postseasons.

In Hunt's second year, he had 824 yards rushing with 7 TD's and 378 yards and another 7 TD's receiving in 11 games.

There is no way this guy is overrated.

In fact, Damien has outdone Kareem’s performance against the Titans in every single postseason game Damien’s played one and still struggles to get love around these parts. Kareem is talked about as though he put the offense on a quantitatively higher stratosphere but outside of the 37 ppg argument (and again, I think that could be a case of correlation vs. causation) there’s really no statistic that backs that up. Lastly - .

Holy crap, this is ridiculous. Damien Williams didn't play in all 16 games in the regular season, so he was completely fresh come the playoffs. And while he had a nice run in the playoffs, the guy just isn't reliable, at all.

I’m still not denying his talent or durability - he was amazing to watch, but I think Reid had little issue adjusting the offense without him.

There was quite a bit of luck involved in Williams' playoff run and by luck, I mean no injuries for three straight games.

There's no way you can convince me that Darwin Award Thompson could have had the same numbers as Williams.

The hyperbole surrounding running backs and their worth in this forum is beyond ridiculous.

[Chiefspants]

Quick question, Dane.

Do you feel like Kareem should be in the same conversation as Priest Holmes and Jamaal Charles? What I’m calling out are the folks who say Kareem was more or equal of a franchise back than Priest, Jamaal and LJ. That is the sentiment I’ve seen around these parts that I’m pushing back on.

[TribalElder]

https://media.tenor.com/images/64cfc2bd2bf7062551f43418258708e1/tenor.gif

[DaneMcCloud]

Quick question, Dane.

Do you feel like Kareem should be in the same conversation as Priest Holmes and Jamaal Charles? What I’m calling out are the folks who say Kareem was more or equal of a franchise back than Priest, Jamaal and LJ. That is the sentiment I’ve seen around these parts that I’m pushing back on.

They're all such different running backs with different styles playing in different eras, so it's a tough question to answer.

That said, I'd go with "Yes" at this point in time because Hunt put up similar numbers, wasn't injured during his time in KC and had it not been for the DV incident, there's a damn good chance that he'd end his career in KC as the best running back in Chiefs history in terms of yardage and TD's.

[Rain Man]

Just for fun, here's a plot of the 45 running backs in Chiefs history who recorded more than 1,000 yards from scrimmage (rushing plus receiving).

The further right they are, the more career Yards from Scrimmage they had. The higher up they are, the more average yards per season (rushing plus receiving) they had. This counts the years that they were on the roster, so for example Jamaal gets penalized on the y axis for the two seasons he missed with injuries. But that's kind of fair since it points out that he wasn't consistently on the field for his entire career.

[Rain Man]

Actually, the previous graph doesn't account for the fact that some of the old time players were playing in a 14-game season. In this graph, I correct for that by scaling up their yards per season into a 16-game season. While I was doing that, I also corrected for the 1982 and 1987 player strikes.

The result is below. It slightly overestimates pre-1978 players and strike players on the y-axis by assuming that they would have maintained their productivity in a longer season, but then again it underestimates those players on the x-axis because I don't award them any more career yards. (I'm only scaling up their yards per season.)

[DaneMcCloud]

Actually, the previous graph doesn't account for the fact that some of the old time players were playing in a 14-game season.

Wow, look at Abner Haynes! It's pretty amazing what he was able to accomplish in five short years with the Chiefs.

My dad played on a softball team in the 80's with Ted McKnight. That dude was the biggest human I think I'd ever met in my life up to that point.

The guy was a Sherman tank.

[Rain Man]

My conclusion from this is that any discussion of the top Chiefs running back of all time is a debate between Abner Haynes, Priest Holmes, and Jamaal Charles. We really underestimate Abner Haynes.

Larry Johnson and Kareem Hunt seem to be the argument for the #4 and #5 spot.

Battling for the remaining top ten spots would be Joe Delaney, Mike Garrett, Ed Podolak, Marcus Allen, Christian Okoye, and ... Tony Reed?

[Ubeja Vontell]

Hunt's NCAA numbers were outstanding as were his Chiefs stats, he was on his way to being one of the best RB's in the NFL. He had the total package and 225 pounds backing it. Bummer it went down like it did, in Karem Hunt the Chiefs had a bonafide Superstar potentially an all time great in NFL history.

I once saw him while he was at Toledo, in a word....stunning.

It would have been talk of Abner Haynes, Christian Okoye, Larry Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Priest Holmes, Kareem Hunt.

[Rain Man]

Wow, look at Abner Haynes! It's pretty amazing what he was able to accomplish in five short years with the Chiefs.

My dad played on a softball team in the 80's with Ted McKnight. That dude was the biggest human I think I'd ever met in my life up to that point.

The guy was a Sherman tank.


Yeah, I went back and looked up the stats to be sure I didn't screw something up with Abner. He was beyond studly. He was a combination of Jamaal and Kareem. I think we overlook him in part due to age, but also because he played in 14-game seasons. He also got a lot of receiving yards, which dilutes his value if you look only at rushing yards. So there are a lot of quirky reasons why he doesn't get the respect he deserves when we're looking at stats.

Abner is easily my biggest surprise from this, but when you correct for the 1982 strike it's clear that we lost a good one in Joe Delaney. Mike Garrett shows up stronger than I expected, too.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Abner Haynes had over 12, 000 yards rushing/receiving/returner, he scored 68td and was the first "Star" of the old AFL, he was a bigger name than any other Chiefs RB other than Marcus Allen (due to Raider days). Haynes was a fantastic do it all talent.

His North Texas State story a very interesting read.

[Rain Man]

Abner Haynes had over 12, 000 yards rushing/receiving/returner, he scored 68td and was the first "Star" of the old AFL, he was a bigger name than any other Chiefs RB other than Marcus Allen (due to Raider days). Haynes was a fantastic do it all talent.

His North Texas State story a very interesting read.

Yeah, he's criminally underrated. He's an interesting question about the length of career versus the brilliance of the career in considering players for the hall of fame. His star burned short but very bright.

[Rain Man]

I wondered why Abner's career was so short, and it turns out that it wasn't. We traded him to the Broncos. They didn't really make much use of him for two seasons, and then he played one more season with the expansion Dolphins and the Jets. He never did much after leaving Kansas City, though all in all he had an eight year career.

So after being a superstar for us, why did we trade him? Apparently Hank Stram started splitting his carries with Curtis McClinton, Jack Spikes, and Mack Lee Hill, all bigger backs. Haynes wanted more carries and was unhappy, and apparently there was a widespread belief that the Chiefs were wanting to go with heavier backs.

Haynes was traded to Denver in exchange for a fellow named Jim Fraser, who was a combination linebacker/punter. Fraser punted 3 times for us and apparently played some special teams, and was gone after one year.

Meanwhile, Haynes' confidence that he would get more carries in Denver proved to be untrue. He averaged fewer carries per year in Denver than in his lightest year in Kansas City.

This appears to be a trade that did not benefit either player or either team.

Interesting news stories about the trade here:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=LABWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-eIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6044%2C3891722

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qq1WAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3OgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3131%2C1864505

It appears that his trade from the Broncos to the Dolphins a couple of years later involved some controversy, as apparently he had a reputation as a troublemaker in Denver. All the more reason to like him: https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tMk0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=JGkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2664%2C2407104

[Ubeja Vontell]

Yeah, he's criminally underrated. He's an interesting question about the length of career versus the brilliance of the career in considering players for the hall of fame. His star burned short but very bright.

One of my prized possesions (not my card)

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k56zBqg6Yso/TNl1ioLavUI/AAAAAAAAAE8/JFF8UXsQFTI/s1600/1960+Fleer+-+073+-+Abner+Haynes.jpg

Numbers and stats don't always tell the story, Haynes was exciting, a great shuck n' jive runner, very elusive, fast, agile,just a great runner who could do it all.

He left KC with a 4.7 avg per carry. that is a great APC. Five time pro bowler.

[ThaVirus]

Just for fun, here's a plot of the 45 running backs in Chiefs history who recorded more than 1,000 yards from scrimmage (rushing plus receiving).

The further right they are, the more career Yards from Scrimmage they had. The higher up they are, the more average yards per season (rushing plus receiving) they had. This counts the years that they were on the roster, so for example Jamaal gets penalized on the y axis for the two seasons he missed with injuries. But that's kind of fair since it points out that he wasn't consistently on the field for his entire career.

I'm surprised to see Priest's season average so low. The dude averaged 2,000+ yards from scrimmage from 2001-2003. That could have been the most productive three-year stretch in NFL history.

I suspect he just lingered after injury for longer than I remember.

[Buehler445]

Good stuff Rain Man.

[Rain Man]

One of my prized possesions (not my card)


Tip: don't trade it for a Jim Fraser card.

[Eleazar]

He's the second-best running back on the Cleveland Browns, I'm not mourning over his loss. Especially since he was always off the field trouble waiting to happen.

[Rain Man]

I'm surprised to see Priest's season average so low. The dude averaged 2,000+ yards from scrimmage from 2001-2003. That could have been the most productive three-year stretch in NFL history.

I suspect he just lingered after injury for longer than I remember.


Yeah, his last two seasons really dragged down his average. And the stats don't include one season where he was apparently not even on the team while recovering. So in six formal seasons with the team he only started 9+ times in three of them.

Larry's average went down because he was a backup for a couple of years early on and then got used less his last couple of seasons.

In turn, Jamaal got double-dinged because he started out as a backup and then also missed a lot of time with injuries. In nine seasons with the Chiefs, he only had 8+ starts in four of them. With that in mind, his average production is still pretty darn good, but the truth is that he was often not available.

The life of an NFL running back is apparently short and brutal.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Tip: don't trade it for a Jim Fraser card.

Nobody I'd nave traded Abner Haynes for, especially....



https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31jzC4kBIPL._AC_UL320_.jpg

[Ubeja Vontell]

He's the second-best running back on the Cleveland Browns, I'm not mourning over his loss. Especially since he was always off the field trouble waiting to happen.

We have all seen the videos know the story. He told her to get lost a number of times. And what a feedle kick "at" her that was.

The whole thing sucked and it is poor Kareem.

[Sassy Squatch]

Jesus fucking Christ how is this even still a thing?

[Rain Man]

Do you think Kareem Hunt enjoys playing second violin to Nick Chubb?

I hope he does. Apparently that's all he's good for these days.

That's what happens when you engage in viola-nce.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Jesus ****ing Christ how is this even still a thing?

Speaking of Jesus how is that still a story, one we just celebrated a week ago.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Top 20 All Time Chiefs rushers



Rk Player From To G Pos AV Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G Fmb
1 Jamaal Charles 2008 2016 103 RB 70 1332 7260 43 91 5.5 70.5 26
2 Priest Holmes 2001 2007 65 RB 76 1321 6070 76 56 4.6 93.4 11
3 Larry Johnson 2003 2009 75 RB 55 1375 6015 55 65 4.4 80.2 15
4 Christian Okoye 1987 1992 79 FB 36 1246 4897 40 59 3.9 62.0 27
5 Ed Podolak 1969 1977 104 RB 63 1157 4451 34 65 3.8 42.8 42
6 Abner Haynes 1960 1964 70 HB 66 794 3814 39 80 4.8 54.5 30
7 Marcus Allen 1993 1997 77 RB 36 932 3698 44 39 4.0 48.0 15
8 Mike Garrett 1966 1970 58 RB 51 736 3246 24 77 4.4 56.0 22
9 Curtis McClinton 1962 1969 107 FB 54 762 3124 18 69 4.1 29.2 27
10 Herman Heard 1984 1989 87 RB 27 651 2694 13 69 4.1 31.0 22
11 Wendell Hayes 1968 1974 93 FB 34 668 2560 18 28 3.8 27.5 9
12 Greg Hill 1994 1997 63 RB 19 588 2436 6 38 4.1 38.7 5
13 Ted McKnight 1977 1981 65 RB 22 528 2344 22 84 4.4 36.1 15
14 Barry Word 1990 1992 44 RB 20 527 2306 12 53 4.4 52.4 7
15 Kimble Anders 1991 2000 125 FB 43 495 2261 9 69 4.6 18.1 15
16 Tony Reed 1977 1980 56 RB 31 513 2184 8 62 4.3 39.0 18
17 Kareem Hunt 2017 2018 27 RB 26 453 2151 15 69 4.7 79.7 1
18 Donnell Bennett 1994 2000 86 RB 14 519 1902 17 44 3.7 22.1 7
19 Robert Holmes 1968 1971 48 RB 24 408 1719 12 76 4.2 35.8 19
20 Alex Smith 2013 2017 76 QB 72 317 1672 10 70 5.3 22.0 2


Must mention Joe Delaney and Mack "Truck" Lee Hill, both studs.

Would rank them

1.Charles
2.Haynes
3.Holmes
4.Okoye
5.Johnson
6.Garrett
7.Podolak
8.Hunt
9.Delaney
10.The Truck

Allen will always be a Raider.

[KC_Connection]

Judging by what Christian McCaffrey just got, Hunt cost himself tens of millions of dollars by kicking that girl and then lying about it. Not to mention a Super Bowl (and likely more than that).

[FAX]

Judging by what Christian McCaffrey just got, Hunt cost himself tens of millions of dollars by kicking that girl and then lying about it. Not to mention a Super Bowl (and likely more than that).

Exactly so, Mr. KC_Connection.

As the famous temperance movement poster stated, "Drink Is The Devil's Crowbar."

To this day, I believe that if that dumbass had simply told the whole truth - and nothing but the truth - to the team, the video would have had a minimized effect on his career.

He would have been suspended and forced to engage in counseling, but he would have remained on the team. Maybe.

Nonetheless, he doubled-down on stupid.

FAX

[Chiefspants]

Top 20 All Time Chiefs rushers



Must mention Joe Delaney and Mack "Truck" Lee Hill, both studs.

Would rank them

1.Charles
2.Haynes
3.Okoye
4.Holmes
5.Johnson
6.Garrett
7.Podolak
8.Hunt
9.Delaney
10.The Truck

Allen will always be a Raider.

Switch Priest with Okeye and I 100% agree with this list.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Switch Priest with Okeye and I 100% agree with this list.

I can do that because I had it that way then changed my mind, yep....you;re right.

[Chiefspants]

I can do that because I had it that way then changed my mind, yep....you;re right.

Nice. I probably include Allen on there because of his love for the Chiefs org and disdain for Al Davis, but I understand his exclusion.