Would a SB victory make Mahomes the greatest Chief in history?

[Megatron96]

Okay, I know it's way early for this discussion; relax, it's for fun. Just doing this because the "let's talk about the 49ers " thread is starting to get a bit repetitive.

But if Patrick Mahomes leads this team to a SB victory, he'll have done something no Chiefs QB has done in 50 years.

But what if he doesn't get it done this year? What if it's next year or the year after that? Would any SB win make him the greatest Chief?


Or if a SB win wouldn't do it, then what in your opinion would do it?

[Titty Meat]

He already is

[Halfcan]

2 SB MVP's would do it.

[redfan]

IS

[PHOG]

Too late, already there.

[AJKCFAN]

He’s the best Chiefs player I’ve ever seen in my 40+ years of watching them and it’s not even up for a debate.

There are very few football players who have ever played this game with this type of talent.

AND HE’S OURS!!!!!

[Prison Bitch]

No, not ahead of Lenny. But a win Sun ties him IMO.

[Megatron96]

No, not ahead of Lenny. But a win Sun ties him IMO.

So just to be clear, two SB wins would allow Pat to surpass Lenny? Even if they are separated by say 10 years or more?

[FlaChief58]

Leonard has the ring, but Mahomes is doing things in his 2 years of starting that I've never seen. I'll put them 1a & 1b, but if PMII wins on Sunday, he will be undesputed #1

[comochiefsfan]

An MVP in his first season starting? (Never happened in franchise history)

A Super Bowl in his second season starting? (Only happened once before in franchise history)

I don’t even think it would be up for debate.

[SuperBowl4]

:arrow:It's a team sport. The offensive line makes Mahomes great

[Easy 6]

Technically it will only tie him

But for me personally, the answer is absolutely yes

[alanm]

Technically it will only tie him

But for me personally, the answer is absolutely yesDawson won 3 AFL Championships and went to 2 SB's winning 1. Mahomes ain't close yet. :shake:

[htismaqe]

Dawson won 3 AFL Championships and went to 2 SB's winning 1. Mahomes ain't close yet. :shake:

Dawson won them on a team that was stacked with hall of famers, in an era with no salary cap.

It's not really a fair comparison, IMO.

[Rain Man]

He's flying up the list, but he still needs a lot more longevity to rise to Chiefs Olympus.

[alanm]

Dawson won them on a team that was stacked with hall of famers, in an era with no salary cap.

It's not really a fair comparison, IMO.It's the company line though. :)

[ChiefsCountry]

Bobby Bell is the best Chiefs player of all time even over Len Dawson. Mahomes will be there one day.

[Halfcan]

Dawson won 3 AFL Championships and went to 2 SB's winning 1. Mahomes ain't close yet. :shake:

Plus set Chief records that have stood 50 years.

Hard to put anyone over a HOF player when they only have 2 years starting under their belt.

Lenny is in the HOF as a broadcaster as well.

Dawson is his own man and will never be overshadowed by anyone. Mahomes has taken that torch and will bridge the gap over 50 years of shitty Chief's teams.

[RealSNR]

In terms of regular season numbers, Patrick Mahomes is currently 9th in career passing yards. He needs 137 more yards to overtake Matt Cassel for the 8th spot. If you add career postseason yardage to all Chiefs QBs, he leapfrogs Cassel and is only 303 yards away from beating out Elvis Grbac at 7th in total career passing yards as a Chief.

He's currently 5th in career passing TDs. He needs 26 more TDs to overtake Alex Smith, the 4th place holder. If you add career postseason TDs to all Chiefs QBs, he only needs 24 to beat him out.

Len Dawson is obviously the current record holder for career passing yards and TDs as a Chief (regular and postseason combined). He has 30,004 yards and 246 TDs. Mahomes has 10,600 yards and 87 TDs. That means that at his current rate, Mahomes will surpass Dawson in those career franchise categories in less than 4 years (if he plays in all 16 games each year and starts two more playoff games total in those 4 seasons) . Knock on wood, of course.

Oh, and have I mentioned he's only had two seasons as our starting QB? Plus that Week 17 game his rookie year, I guess.

[comochiefsfan]

Think about this.

Win on Sunday, and all Mahomes has to do the rest of his career is just pad his stats and he’s a surefire hall of famer.

[RealSNR]

For career passing yards as a Chief and at his current rate of 303 YPG, Mahomes will match or overtake...

Elvis Grbac in 1 game
Mike Livingston in 3 games
Steve DeBerg in 5 games
Bill Kenney in 22 games
Alex Smith in 28 games
Trent Green in 36 games
Len Dawson in 65 games

[Peter Gibbons]

I wonder how Troy Aikman would respond?

[RealSNR]

For career passing TDs as a Chief and at his current rate of 2.55 TDs per game, Mahomes will match or overtake...

Bill Kenney in 7 games
Alex Smith in 10 games
Trent Green in 13 games
Len Dawson in 62 games

[Megatron96]

For career passing TDs as a Chief and at his current rate of 2.55 TDs per game, Mahomes will match or overtake...

Bill Kenney in 7 games
Alex Smith in 10 games
Trent Green in 13 games
Len Dawson in 62 games

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like Pat is breaking some NFL or Chiefs record in every game?

We should really have a thread that just lists every stat Pat has broken and the ones he breaks every week.

[Shiver Me Timbers]

There is a waitress at my local watering hole who is a very enthusiastic Chiefs Fan.
I saw her the day the Chiefs parted ways with Alex Smith and she asked if I thought the Chiefs made a mistake. I said "no kid, you are about to witness something the NFL has never seen before". All she could come up with is "I hope you are right".
PM2 will be one of the greatest the NFL has ever seen. Chiefs- 15 years from now-
definitely the greatest

One other thing Chiefs Kingdom-
prepare yourselves for a dozen years of hate. Exactly like what we thought of the Cheatriots for the past dozen.

[Megatron96]

Early this season I was having another argument with a good friend of mine who is unfortunately a Patriots/Brady fan. He was telling me about how TB12 owned every significant QB statistical record in the NFL. I did some quick math and told him that Pat would exceed all of Brady's QB numbers sometime between his 13th and 15th year.

Later I just sat down and thought about that. Patrick Mahomes could own (if he stays healthy) every major QB stat in just over half the time it took Brady to amass his HOF numbers.

Just wow.

[comochiefsfan]

Early this season I was having another argument with a good friend of mine who is unfortunately a Patriots/Brady fan. He was telling me about how TB12 owned every significant QB statistical record in the NFL. I did some quick math and told him that Pat would exceed all of Brady's QB numbers sometime between his 13th and 15th year.

Later I just sat down and thought about that. Patrick Mahomes could own (if he stays healthy) every major QB stat in just over half the time it took Brady to amass his HOF numbers.

Just wow.

He's incredibly special.

As long as Reid is here I trust Andy to provide him with a good supporting cast on offense too.

[Easy 6]

Dawson won 3 AFL Championships and went to 2 SB's winning 1. Mahomes ain't close yet. :shake:

Yeah I hear you, yet I was just a gleam in daddy’s eye back then... I ride or die with Mahomes

And let’s be honest, Lenny wasn’t even half as talented and would no doubt admit it on camera

[Coochie liquor]

There is a waitress at my local watering hole who is a very enthusiastic Chiefs Fan.
I saw her the day the Chiefs parted ways with Alex Smith and she asked if I thought the Chiefs made a mistake. I said "no kid, you are about to witness something the NFL has never seen before". All she could come up with is "I hope you are right".
PM2 will be one of the greatest the NFL has ever seen. Chiefs- 15 years from now-
definitely the greatest

One other thing Chiefs Kingdom-
prepare yourselves for a dozen years of hate. Exactly like what we thought of the Cheatriots for the past dozen.

Shoulda bet her a bj...

[Easy 6]

I wonder how Troy Aikman would respond?

By handing off to Emmitt Smith?

[Marcellus]

1 play from the SB last year and in the SB this year, first 2 years actually playing? Fuck yea.

[InChiefsHeaven]

I don't think it's a stretch to say he's the greatest QB since Lenny, and the greatest Chief since that time as well. But the greatest of all time, there are too many still around who remember Lenny (I was too young) to admit to that. So, suffice it to say, he's the greatest Chief most of us have seen in our lifetimes. And that's saying a shit ton...before he's done, he will be the undisputed greatest Chief of all time.

[Chris Meck]

Yes.
/thread

[patteeu]

This is cool. According to Conrad McGorkin, PMII was born on the day Marty Schotenheimer kissed James Hasty after a walkoff pick 6 against Oakland.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">September 17, 1995<br><br>The Chiefs beat the Raiders 23-17 in OT. Steve Bono was at QB for the Chiefs and had 2 TD passes (Lake Dawson and Willie Davis.)<br>James Hasty picked off Raiders QB, Jeff Hostetler in OT, returning it 64 yds to win the game.<br><br>Also, Patrick Mahomes II was born. <a href="https://t.co/BdCxSn1gZn">pic.twitter.com/BdCxSn1gZn</a></p>&mdash; Conrad McGorkin (@ConradMcGorkin) <a href="https://twitter.com/ConradMcGorkin/status/1222298908233228300?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[digger]

Best player in my lifetime and we got him...

[JohnnyHammersticks]

He already is

+1

[srvy]

No, not ahead of Lenny. But a win Sun ties him IMO.

This

Also Lenny is 1 and 1 but I have a feeling Pats gonna get a handful of rings if he stays healthy.

[srvy]

Dawson won them on a team that was stacked with hall of famers, in an era with no salary cap.

It's not really a fair comparison, IMO.

Salary caps :D those guys back then held second jobs and worked full time jobs in offseason.

[alanm]

This is cool. According to Conrad McGorkin, PMII was born on the day Marty Schotenheimer kissed James Hasty after a walkoff pick 6 against Oakland.

<twitter-widget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" style="position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;" data-tweet-id="1222298908233228300"></twitter-widget> <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>Man that kids got a melon. ;)<iframe scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.4f8aea4342a4ada72cba2bdffcff6b4d.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chiefsplanet.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[TimeForWasp]

Why have we not seen Lenny the cool in Miami. Is he ok???

Is Shottenheimer ok? This is important. They both should be there, even if they need nurses with them.

[jerryaldini]

He's flying up the list, but he still needs a lot more longevity to rise to Chiefs Olympus.

Yeah he's clearly the best as defined by ability relative to competition but greatest requires some longevity. But this would make for a great hot take show question after the SB! It's all those show do.

[srvy]

Why have we not seen Lenny the cool in Miami. Is he ok???

Is Shottenheimer ok? This is important. They both should be there, even if they need nurses with them.

Fox4kc has had interviews with Lenny's son last couple of day. To me that's an ominous sign his health is not good. His son looks a lot like a younger Lenny.

[BigRedChief]

He is already the most talented player that ever wore the Chiefs uniform.

[FlaChief58]

Fox4kc has had interviews with Lenny's son last couple of day. To me that's an ominous sign his health is not good. His son looks a lot like a younger Lenny.

If so, hopefully he hangs on long enough to watch us win on Sunday

[srvy]

If so, hopefully he hangs on long enough to watch us win on Sunday

They just talked about him being around locker room with his Dad him hanging around players and Coach Stram and Lamar. Oddly they never asked anything about Lenny his health what he is doing. Len Jr did say his Dad is following the team and wishing the team luck. I have tried to find those videos at fox 4 and youtube but dont seem to be up yet its been a few days. I hope Lenny is fine just letting this be about this team and not 50 years ago. I surely hope his health is good as he is one of my idols as a young boy.

[ChiefsCountry]

This is cool. According to Conrad McGorkin, PMII was born on the day Marty Schotenheimer kissed James Hasty after a walkoff pick 6 against Oakland.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">September 17, 1995<br><br>The Chiefs beat the Raiders 23-17 in OT. Steve Bono was at QB for the Chiefs and had 2 TD passes (Lake Dawson and Willie Davis.)<br>James Hasty picked off Raiders QB, Jeff Hostetler in OT, returning it 64 yds to win the game.<br><br>Also, Patrick Mahomes II was born. <a href="https://t.co/BdCxSn1gZn">pic.twitter.com/BdCxSn1gZn</a></p>&mdash; Conrad McGorkin (@ConradMcGorkin) <a href="https://twitter.com/ConradMcGorkin/status/1222298908233228300?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He is a copy cat
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13364360&postcount=9014

[BossChief]

If Mahomes keeps up this pace of growth and domination, he will be the best player the NFL has ever had in a year or 2.

Any position.

Any era.

[oldman]

Dawson won them on a team that was stacked with hall of famers, in an era with no salary cap.

It's not really a fair comparison, IMO.

That's true, there was not salary cap, nor was there a minimum amount the teams had to spend on players. Yes, there were plenty of HOFers on that team, we were lucky. Bottom line is I'll bet none of them ever made $250K per year. That would be $1.656M today.

Simple answer to the question -- not yet.

[cosmo20002]

This is cool. According to Conrad McGorkin, PMII was born on the day Marty Schotenheimer kissed James Hasty after a walkoff pick 6 against Oakland.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">September 17, 1995<br><br>The Chiefs beat the Raiders 23-17 in OT. Steve Bono was at QB for the Chiefs and had 2 TD passes (Lake Dawson and Willie Davis.)<br>James Hasty picked off Raiders QB, Jeff Hostetler in OT, returning it 64 yds to win the game.<br><br>Also, Patrick Mahomes II was born. <a href="https://t.co/BdCxSn1gZn">pic.twitter.com/BdCxSn1gZn</a></p>&mdash; Conrad McGorkin (@ConradMcGorkin) <a href="https://twitter.com/ConradMcGorkin/status/1222298908233228300?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dude has more fivehead than Peyton.

[htismaqe]

Salary caps :D those guys back then held second jobs and worked full time jobs in offseason.

How much each individual player made is irrelevant and you know that. ;)

[carcosa]

He already is

yip

[BWillie]

You know what, no, not yet. It's still Len Dawson. I never even got to see Len Dawson play. He was way before my time but go look at his stats compared to his peers.

He had a 102 passer rating in 1966. His next closest peer was 86. In 1962 he had a passer rating of 98.3. The third best passer rating that year was 63.

In 1968 he had a passer rating of 99 and the next closest QB was 80.

He was a god damned wizard and likely the most underrated QB of all-time.

Now, it won't take Mahomes more than 3 or 4 years to eclipse Dawson, but he's not there YET.

[cosmo20002]

Why have we not seen Lenny the cool in Miami. Is he ok???

Is Shottenheimer ok? This is important. They both should be there, even if they need nurses with them.

Len Dawson drops by KMBC's studios to cheer on Chiefs
https://www.kmbc.com/article/len-dawson-drops-by-kmbc-s-studios-to-cheer-on-chiefs/30696631

[Coogs]

I'm 63. I've watched them both. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would take Mahomes all day, any day. And that's not a slam on Dawson.

[TwistedChief]

How is this even a question?

[oldman]

I'm 63. I've watched them both. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would take Mahomes all day, any day. And that's not a slam on Dawson.

Based solely on today's game, I agree with you. But in the 60 year history of the Texans/Chiefs --- not yet.

[Sackattack]

Is P.M. the greatest CHIEFS player of all time? NO, is he the most exciting young QB this team ever had, YES. He is having a remarkable start in his career. But the CHIEFS have many past players who where great at their position. He is a player who wants to win and makes plays to over come a rushing defense.
He may break team records as a KC CHIEF, and that's to his credit, but is he the greatest, not yet.

[ChiTown]

Sometimes I pinch myself to make sure I’m not dreaming. I’m watching Pat’s press conference this morning, and I’m thinking, “OMG, I can’t believe he’s ours!”:deevee:

[DRM08]

You know what, no, not yet. It's still Len Dawson. I never even got to see Len Dawson play. He was way before my time but go look at his stats compared to his peers.

He had a 102 passer rating in 1966. His next closest peer was 86. In 1962 he had a passer rating of 98.3. The third best passer rating that year was 63.

In 1968 he had a passer rating of 99 and the next closest QB was 80.

He was a god damned wizard and likely the most underrated QB of all-time.

Now, it won't take Mahomes more than 3 or 4 years to eclipse Dawson, but he's not there YET.

Yeah, that’s extremely impressive performance by Dawson. KC has a lot of great players in the Hall of Fame. I think this conversation needs to wait another decade with Mahomes. None of us know how the rest of his career will go.

[Otter]

Sometimes I pinch myself to make sure I’m not dreaming. I’m watching Pat’s press conference this morning, and I’m thinking, “OMG, I can’t believe he’s ours!”:deevee: Same </br></br> I wasn't around for Lenny so I've never seen a great QB play for the Chiefs. The closest I came was watching Montana in his twilight when he signed in '93. He was great due to his poise, wisdom, and harmonious personality which all led to his ability to win and the team genuinly rallied around him. A true leader with some gas still left in the tank. </br></br> I explained this to one of my buddies who called me after the AFCC: </br></br> Watching the Chiefs make it to the Super Bowl and seeing Mahomes (OUR QB) get it done was like losing my virginity again. It's an event you've been waiting for since you first started paying attention to the sport and when it finally arrives it's kind of surreal. </br></br> I'm not going to debate if Patrick is greatest in history after two years but he's certainly making one hell of a case for himself. Just to pat myself on the back: see my signature. :D

[patteeu]

He's definitely the greatest. Everyone loves Lenny Dawson, but come on. There's no comparison.

[Shaid]

Dawson won them on a team that was stacked with hall of famers, in an era with no salary cap.

It's not really a fair comparison, IMO.

It was also with a much smaller number of teams.

[Shaid]

Pat has crushed Lenny's TD record, won the MVP last year, and if he wins a Superbowl this year, he'll probably get Superbowl MVP too. He'll at least be in the 1a and 1b discussion but I think based on the number of teams in today's era, salary cap, free agency, etc. he probably is the 1a of that comparison.

[Coogs]

Based solely on today's game, I agree with you. But in the 60 year history of the Texans/Chiefs --- not yet.

Yet. Dawson was a pretty damn good QB. But you really couldn't say he was the best QB of his era. You can already say that about Mahomes. Like I said, everyone can have their own opinion. Mine is Mahomes. Seen 'em both.

[|Zach|]

I think it would. And it is not close IMO.

[kysirsoze]

You know what, no, not yet. It's still Len Dawson. I never even got to see Len Dawson play. He was way before my time but go look at his stats compared to his peers.

He had a 102 passer rating in 1966. His next closest peer was 86. In 1962 he had a passer rating of 98.3. The third best passer rating that year was 63.

In 1968 he had a passer rating of 99 and the next closest QB was 80.

He was a god damned wizard and likely the most underrated QB of all-time.

Now, it won't take Mahomes more than 3 or 4 years to eclipse Dawson, but he's not there YET.

I agree with this. Look obviously I would take Mahomes over Dawson, but that doesn't account for era. Mahomes is the best football player ever to play for the Chiefs, but that doesn't make him the greatest Chief. He will likely be the greatest within a few years, but due respect to Dawson, it's still his spot. Can't wait for Mahomes to take over.

[ChiefsFanatic]

No, not ahead of Lenny. But a win Sun ties him IMO.I love Lenny, but he had a defense full of HOF players. I mean, come on, look at that defense, and it's not only the HOF players that were all-world, but the other players were still some of the best to ever play.

In my mind, when Mahomes wins on Sunday he will be the greatest Kansas City Chief ever. He is probably already the greatest Chief ever. NFL MVP, 50 TDs and 5000 yards in a single season, almost doubled the team's previous TD pass record (30) with Back to Back AFC Championship games, and a SB appearance.

My #2 is DT. DT had 126.5 career sacks in 11 seasons, made the Pro Bowl his first 9 seasons, and was a two time All-Pro, with a 20 sack season, the record 7 sacks in one game, and had two other games with 6 sacks.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[patteeu]

I agree with this. Look obviously I would take Mahomes over Dawson, but that doesn't account for era. Mahomes is the best football player ever to play for the Chiefs, but that doesn't make him the greatest Chief. He will likely be the greatest within a few years, but due respect to Dawson, it's still his spot. Can't wait for Mahomes to take over.

Dawson isn’t even 2nd in this contest.