How to play this off-season with free agency?

[Walt White]

I don't know the cap space that well so people smarter will have to tell me what we can do. I'm just excited to see how good this team can get. All the building blocks are in place. It's a matter of how we can supplement the pieces. And I know retain the big pieces is most important.

So assuming we can keep Chris Jones and give Pat an extension, will we have any room at all in the cap to make impact additions? Keeping Sammy looks unlikely. Not sure how many of our corners we can keep?

Even if we play it perfect, will there be any cap left to add some vet free agents? It seems like a pretty strong offensive line class in free agency if we could add one or two. Or if we could add an LB (although Hitchens make a lot). Or a vet corner? Trade possibilities?

I'm just trying to get a realistic grid of what potential moves we can make. I know hitting on picks in the draft will be the biggest way to improve. But if we can get some discounted vets or something, that could go a long way into having freedom in drafting more luxury picks.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

We have around 17 mil in cap space. We won’t sign any flashy free agents. Look for value signing like Damien Wilson was or a Mike Pennel. Pat will get paid and gotta re sign Jones then do something about Watkins

[MOhillbilly]

Jones ain’t coming back. Trade him and take picks with immediate value.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Jones ain’t coming back. Trade him and take picks with immediate value.

It’s been reported by plenty of people that Jones will get tagged if no long term deal is reached. He will be here next year

[Walt White]

We have around 17 mil in cap space. We won’t sign any flashy free agents. Look for value signing like Damien Wilson was or a Mike Pennel. Pat will get paid and gotta re sign Jones then do something about Watkins

Does Pat's contract count against the cap this year or next if extended? I heard the new CBA might have a clause to make QB contracts separate. Any chance to restructure contracts or get discounts? I thought if we cut some people we can at least create a little space. But maybe that will still be used up just to re-sign people.

Yeah, I don't understand the Watkins situation. Whether he is trying to take a year off or get paid, doesn't sound like we can retain him. Probably not even trade in that case. But I guess we need to try to get as many picks as we can if that is our only method of improvement.

[smithandrew051]

Trade Watkins or release him
Tag Jones, listen to offers, and trade if you get a good return; Otherwise extend
Sign Pennel
Sign Fuller for a reasonable number (if possible)
Keep Reiter as a back-up; draft a new starting center
Sign Wis to a 1-year deal; Wis and Rankin start at guards
Draft BPA, but hope for LB, CB, Interior OL, RB (mid-late)
Sign Vet WR

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Does Pat's contract count against the cap this year or next if extended? I heard the new CBA might have a clause to make QB contracts separate. Any chance to restructure contracts or get discounts? I thought if we cut some people we can at least create a little space. But maybe that will still be used up just to re-sign people.

Yeah, I don't understand the Watkins situation. Whether he is trying to take a year off or get paid, doesn't sound like we can retain him. Probably not even trade in that case. But I guess we need to try to get as many picks as we can if that is our only method of improvement.

There is no way Mahomes is playing this upcoming year for 2 million dollars. Wait till the new CBA is in place then get a deal done. Either way Mahomes is getting paid this offseason. The longer Mahomes waits to sign a deal the more leverage he has. As for Watkins it’s been reported that Veach will try and retain Watkins. I don’t know how but Veach is a wizard

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Trade Watkins or release him
Tag Jones, listen to offers, and trade if you get a good return; Otherwise extend
Sign Pennel
Sign Fuller for a reasonable number (if possible)
Sign Reiter to back-up money; draft a new starting center
Sign Wis to a 1-year deal; Wis and Rankin start at guards
Draft BPA, but hope for LB, CB, Interior OL, RB (mid-late)
Sign Vet WR

Reiter isn’t a FA. Has one more year left

[smithandrew051]

Reiter isn’t a FA. Has one more year left

I thought he was. Either way, find a new starter. He’s a good back up.

[DenverChief]

We need to keep Breeland around.

[Walt White]

If we end up losing Fuller, Breeland, Watkins, and DRob, that is tough. Especially if we aren't getting picks in return or it doesn't create enough cap for replacements.

We can draft there, but we need players we know we can count on. We won't want to rely on rookies that heavily.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

We need to keep Breeland around.

Sorry but that’s not happening. He wants 7-10 mil per year

[DenverChief]

Sorry but that’s not happening. He wants 7-10 mil per year

I’d keep him over Jones. Jones is a one trick pony and his replacement (Pennel) is better and cheaper. Tag and trade

[kcclone]

I’d keep him over Jones. Jones is a one trick pony and his replacement (Pennel) is better and cheaper. Tag and trade

That’s my guess. Tag and trade Jones. You can’t pay him and you may as well get something for him.

[Reerun_KC]

When you have a franchise QB. Players will want to come to KC. Not like years past where game managers killed everyone’s hope.

[DRM08]

The longer Mahomes waits to sign a deal the more leverage he has.

Not necessarily. He could have a serious injury. Would think his agent wants to get the big money sooner rather than later.

[YontsRBake]

Is there a way we can cut Hitchens and Fisher and save $$? If so, i’d start there.

[Walt White]

I’d keep him over Jones. Jones is a one trick pony and his replacement (Pennel) is better and cheaper. Tag and trade

To be fair, he is really good at that one trick. He changes the face of a game.

But I agree that we may need to trade him if it means getting some picks while also retaining the money to keep our depth. Overall, depth seems more important to the benefit our defense.

We also need to see what our players are asking for first. Because one way or another, I don't think we can afford more overpays. It has to be fair value at the least.

[Walt White]

When you have a franchise QB. Players will want to come to KC. Not like years past where game managers killed everyone’s hope.

This is what I'm hoping for. I hope there are some good vets willing to come here on a discount.

[Special_K]

Jones ain’t coming back. Trade him and take picks with immediate value.
This. He could get tagged and maybe he goes along with it but a long term deal with his value will be nearly impossible.

Even if we get him at a major discount, back-loaded contract with less up front, etc. don't see how we sign him and Pat in the next 2 years with what Pat will get (and deserves).

My guess is we trade Jones before the draft and get some value for him and free up cap space.

[DRM08]

Is there a way we can cut Hitchens and Fisher and save $$? If so, i’d start there.

Who are you putting in Fisher's spot? All of their losses this season happened with him on the sideline with injury. Undefeated with him in the lineup.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Not necessarily. He could have a serious injury. Would think his agent wants to get the big money sooner rather than later.

According to Whitlock and Wiley they said that a former GM told them that Mahomes agent will not allow Mahomes to play next year unless a new deal is signed

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Is there a way we can cut Hitchens and Fisher and save $$? If so, i’d start there.

Nope. Veach restructured both of their contracts

[srvy]

Is there a way we can cut Hitchens and Fisher and save $$? If so, i’d start there.

Yeah lets leave the blind side open to career injury to our 50 million a year QB. After all elite LT's grow on trees. Fish is getting older sure but he isn't out to pasture yet. Who do we have to replace on our roster?

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

We’re still paying Berry 8 mil this season :)

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Yeah lets leave the blind side open to career injury to our 50 million a year QB. After all elite LT's grow on trees. Fish is getting older sure but he isn't out to pasture yet. Who do we have to replace on our roster?

Watkins is the worst we can cut and save the most at 14 mil

LDT we would save about 5 mil

Kelce we can save 10 mil.

That’s it

[bringbackmarty]

Jones is most definitely coming back on a fat backloaded deal with signifcicant performance escalators and a decent bonus the first couple of years, If they do mahomes early - jones gets the tag. My prediction, we sign Jones to a five year deal worth 70 mil guaranteed, if he makes it to year five and collects all the bonuses its worth close to $130,000,000. We get to the next cba and sign Mahomes for an 7 year 40+ mil a year contract worth over 300 million dollars with incentives - more than half of which is guaranteed. It's too much money for a goddamned superbowl championship. We pay these guys too much money to play a stupid game, all that money could be going to cure cancer, fix the environment, feed people who don't have enough to eat, help those with mental illness, explore space, fix the roads, the schools or grow food. When it comes to this football shit, we are being pretty fucking stupid. Maybe now that we won one we as chief consumers should demand lower prices for our fandom and the nfl investing in the health safety and future of the country instead of the pockets of guys who can play football good for a few years. I love the sport, I love our team, but I love America and all of her people more. These contracts, the idiotic speeches, all this other bullshit can go fuck itself.

[DRM08]

According to Whitlock and Wiley they said that a former GM told them that Mahomes agent will not allow Mahomes to play next year unless a new deal is signed

It's a smart approach, especially since he already had a scary injury this season. Goff/Wentz have set a standard that the QB has to be paid after year 3.

[bringbackmarty]

It's a motherfucking game, but life isn't. Too much money and hype for something that ain't that important.

[DRM08]

It's a mother****ing game, but life isn't. Too much money and hype for something that ain't that important.

If you hate it so much, why are you here posting about it? Quit wasting your time with something that doesn't matter.

[jd1020]

The longer Mahomes waits to sign a deal the more leverage he has.

Ya like Mahomes doesnt have all the leverage in the world or anything.

[Wilson8]

The main effort will be spent in who we can keep.

We have the following free agents -

CB Bashaud Breeland 28
DE Emmanuel Ogbah 26
DL Chris Jones 26
CB Kendall Fuller 25
TE Blake Bell 29
DL Mike Pennel 29
WR Marcus Kemp 25 ERFA
OL Andrew Wylie 26 ERFA
TE Deon Yelder 25 ERFA
DE Terrell Suggs 37
QB Chad Henne 35
QB Matt Moore 36
RB LeSean McCoy 32
RB Spencer Ware 28
FB Anthony Sherman 31
LB Darron Lee 25
DT Xavier Williams 28
S Jordan Lucas 27
CB Morris Claiborne 30
LB Reggie Ragland 26
C Stefen Wisniewski 31
CD Keith Reaser 29
WR Demarcus Robinson 25
TE David Wells 25 ERFA

If we are unable to re-sign Breeland and/or Fuller, we may be looking at a free agent CB.

[Chargem]

Lot of dumb takes in this thread, like cutting Fisher, Pennel is a better player than Jones.

The cap situation is actually pretty rough and next years team may not be as good as this one.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

I wouldn’t say it’s a bad situation. Most of the FAs are JAGs. Should be able to re-sign a few at reasonable rates. Let the rest walk. Tag Jones. Draft well. Repeat as champs.

[scho63]

We have a bunch of old players getting cut or not resigned.
Most players will take a deal favorable to KC to stay with a winner and Mahomes.
Would you leave KC and possibly get stuck playing for Cleveland or Tampa or Miami or the Jets or the Chargers or how many other teams going nowhere or down?
We will be better off than most of you realize.

[Walt White]

Jones is most definitely coming back on a fat backloaded deal with signifcicant performance escalators and a decent bonus the first couple of years, If they do mahomes early - jones gets the tag. My prediction, we sign Jones to a five year deal worth 70 mil guaranteed, if he makes it to year five and collects all the bonuses its worth close to $130,000,000. We get to the next cba and sign Mahomes for an 7 year 40+ mil a year contract worth over 300 million dollars with incentives - more than half of which is guaranteed. It's too much money for a goddamned superbowl championship. We pay these guys too much money to play a stupid game, all that money could be going to cure cancer, fix the environment, feed people who don't have enough to eat, help those with mental illness, explore space, fix the roads, the schools or grow food. When it comes to this football shit, we are being pretty ****ing stupid. Maybe now that we won one we as chief consumers should demand lower prices for our fandom and the nfl investing in the health safety and future of the country instead of the pockets of guys who can play football good for a few years. I love the sport, I love our team, but I love America and all of her people more. These contracts, the idiotic speeches, all this other bullshit can go **** itself.

You realize that makes no logical sense right? This is a game, but it is a business. All the money that funnels into that revolves around this form of entertainment. And there are tons of people that make their living from the NFL or talking about the NFL. And the more money in the hands of people, the more they have to help others. And everyone that earns their money, they have a right to do with it what they want anyway.

And guess what, all those problems you listed, throwing money at the problem won't fix them. Because if they did, it would have been done by now. People continually give to help the poor and cure illness. There is a deeper rooted issue of why it isn't fixed. Get mad at governments or big industry that halts the progress of cures for their own gain.

I'd actually argue that the NFL and other sports actually help the aid of the world's problems. Not just bringing people together and hope and all the intangible things that are most important. But they often raise awareness way beyond the scale of most with the platform they are on. Because of money. And all the millionaires related to the game that earned their money are often very charitable.

But yeah, go ahead and don't buy NFL products or watch games if you want. It is your money.

[Walt White]

We have a bunch of old players getting cut or not resigned.
Most players will take a deal favorable to KC to stay with a winner and Mahomes.
Would you leave KC and possibly get stuck playing for Cleveland or Tampa or Miami or the Jets or the Chargers or how many other teams going nowhere or down?
We will be better off than most of you realize.

I suppose the hope is to retain most of the core and add some pieces through the draft.

I do agree. Even if we have to lose a couple pieces, we are still ahead of the majority of the league and in contention. But I just feel we are right on the edge of true domination with all these pieces in place. I hope Veach can work some cap magic and make it happen.

I really feel like we are on the edge of being near unstoppable with the right moves. I don't want to even take a small step back. I hope we can find the way to leap forward and be a historic team. Especially with our offense. Beef up the line a bit, add a couple receivers and running backs to this group and we will be cooking. Even the defense man. Upgrade the linebacker and corner back core with some dogs and we could be looking at a top ranked defense.

[Dunerdr]

Hopefully we get cream of the crop JAGs after winning a SB and guys want to rebuild their career and spring board to a bigger contract here. If not we better hope we can trade Jones for some solid picks, because were short on picks and money.

[Walt White]

Hopefully we get cream of the crop JAGs after winning a SB and guys want to rebuild their career and spring board to a bigger contract here. If not we better hope we can trade Jones for some solid picks, because were short on picks and money.

I was thinking about that too. Those good players that get cut for whatever reason, we have the luxury to take chances on them for cheap. And they will likely want to come here.

Being in win now mode, I think we could even trade up again in the draft if we feel like a young franchise cornerstone could fall enough in our range. But picks being that much more important, we could also trade down. The draft is truly crucial to sustaining this success.

[Dunerdr]

I was thinking about that too. Those good players that get cut for whatever reason, we have the luxury to take chances on them for cheap. And they will likely want to come here.

Being in win now mode, I think we could even trade up again in the draft if we feel like a young franchise cornerstone could fall enough in our range. But picks being that much more important, we could also trade down. The draft is truly crucial to sustaining this success.

I dont think we can afford to trade up with so few picks and such a high demand for cheap talent. I'd say if anything make a big push for an upgrade at IOL, could give mahomes time, and rbs better lanes. We need more picks and for veach to hit on the draft again. And for Rankin to come back Strong.

[KentuckyChief]

Just a fanboy thought......would love to have the Kelce boys together for another run. How bout a swap for Sammy. Wouldn’t happen but that would be fun. Doesn’t sound like Sammy is interested in coming back anyway.

[oldandslow]

You realize that makes no logical sense right? This is a game, but it is a business. All the money that funnels into that revolves around this form of entertainment. And there are tons of people that make their living from the NFL or talking about the NFL. And the more money in the hands of people, the more they have to help others. And everyone that earns their money, they have a right to do with it what they want anyway.

And guess what, all those problems you listed, throwing money at the problem won't fix them. Because if they did, it would have been done by now. People continually give to help the poor and cure illness. There is a deeper rooted issue of why it isn't fixed. Get mad at governments or big industry that halts the progress of cures for their own gain.

I'd actually argue that the NFL and other sports actually help the aid of the world's problems. Not just bringing people together and hope and all the intangible things that are most important. But they often raise awareness way beyond the scale of most with the platform they are on. Because of money. And all the millionaires related to the game that earned their money are often very charitable.

But yeah, go ahead and don't buy NFL products or watch games if you want. It is your money.

Rep, Rep, and more Rep. Great post.

[Walt White]

Just a fanboy thought......would love to have the Kelce boys together for another run. How bout a swap for Sammy. Wouldn’t happen but that would be fun. Doesn’t sound like Sammy is interested in coming back anyway.

That's one of my dream targets. He even plays at a position we need. Would be so cool to see them together. Jason is getting older. But I think our only chance to get him would be in a couple years when his contract is expired and he is cheaper.

Other dream targets would be AJ Green or Chris Harris Jr. Both are getting older, but still probably out of our price range and unlikely. I don't know if trades are possible. I've seen some speculation that Green could get 18 mil a year? I would have guessed closer to 10. If that is the case, the overpays are tough. Not even sure what Chris Harris Jr. will command. But probably a lot in this market.

[BWillie]

Sign Ricky Stanzi.

We also need a back up guard. Sebastian Janikowski would be worth looking into as well.

[Chris Meck]

I seriously doubt you're going to see any big name FA.

We'll be doing well to keep most of the guys we want to keep as it is.

There will be some bargain hunting, and the draft.

That'll be about it.

[Mecca]

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[The Franchise]

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For Jones to stay here....he’s going to have to give us a discount.

[smithandrew051]

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I’d trade him for a first and a mid-late round pick OR an upper half first round pick.

I hope we don’t give into some bullshit where we get a 1st and a 5th for Jones and a 4th or something like that.

We have all the leverage here. We don’t have to trade him. We don’t have to extend him.

[The Franchise]

Trade Watkins.
Cut Reiter and Erving.
Colquitt retires or gets cut.
Restructure Clark.
Extend Pennel, Robinson, Sherman and Ogbah.
Hopefully extend Jones. Otherwise tag and trade.
Extend Mahomes.

[Redbled]

Getting back most of our IR guys will in itself improve us. To me keeping Fuller and Breeland is more critical than Jones at least from a cost perspective. If both Ogbah and Okafor come back healthy we have some really good line depth. We can’t pay Jones 20 mill per year.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

For Jones to stay here....he’s going to have to give us a discount.

He literally told rich Eisen that he would. Why listen to these “insiders” anyways. Veach literally does stuff before anyone knows it. The Jalen Ramsey stuff everyone said we were interested and we clearly weren’t. Mathieu was gonna go to another team it was reported until Veach pulled his big dick magic and got him here. Chiefs run a tight ship. Expect the unexpected

[Mecca]

Getting back most of our IR guys will in itself improve us. To me keeping Fuller and Breeland is more critical than Jones at least from a cost perspective. If both Ogbah and Okafor come back healthy we have some really good line depth. We can’t pay Jones 20 mill per year.

Breeland is not coming back, a dude that signs a 1 year 3 mill deal is looking to get paid. He lost that contract with Carolina a couple years ago, he's looking to get paid period.

The reality of this situation is...Watkins, Jones, Fuller, Breeland, LDT and honestly Colquitt and Sorenson may all be gone now, unless they are willing to take less money or redo deals because well we have some issues.

[kcclone]

Who are you putting in Fisher's spot? All of their losses this season happened with him on the sideline with injury. Undefeated with him in the lineup.


Ha, exactly. People act like LT's grow on trees. We saw the product when Fisher was out and it wasn't pretty.

Is he the best LT in the game?.... No. But he's definitely top half. Our bigger need on the OL is not the tackle spot, it's improving the interior.

Fortunately, that can be done more cheaply, or in the draft.

[wachashi]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">�� <a href="https://t.co/D1XOrrPmsH">https://t.co/D1XOrrPmsH</a> <a href="https://t.co/DSSm2jpfZ4">pic.twitter.com/DSSm2jpfZ4</a></p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1225805615190171648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The Seahawks have cap space, a late first round pick, and they're an NFC contender that needs pass rush help. Plus there's already a Tag/Trade relationship between the two organizations in last year's Clark deal.

Hopefully Jones wants to stay in KC enough that he'll take a team friendly deal that KC can afford. It's much easier to think that's a possibility as a fan when it's not my bank account missing out on the money.

[Mecca]

Trade Watkins.
Cut Reiter and Erving.
Colquitt retires or gets cut.
Restructure Clark.
Extend Pennel, Robinson, Sherman and Ogbah.
Hopefully extend Jones. Otherwise tag and trade.
Extend Mahomes.

You just cut the teams only backup OT and their starting C who makes like 2 million dollars, I just don't see them doing that.

[smithandrew051]

Ha, exactly. People act like LT's grow on trees. We saw the product when Fisher was out and it wasn't pretty.

Is he the best LT in the game?.... No. But he's definitely top half. Our bigger need on the OL is not the tackle spot, it's improving the interior.

Fortunately, that can be done more cheaply, or in the draft.

We could always draft Hakeem Adeniji from Kansas late to be the back up swing tackle. He’s a good athlete with good size and extremely durable. Maybe he can start someday. We could definitely use better tackle depth though...we saw that this year.

[smithandrew051]

You just cut the teams only backup OT and their starting C who makes like 2 million dollars, I just don't see them doing that.

Reiter would be a great back up center. I would draft his replacement though.

[Mecca]

Reiter would be a great back up center. I would draft his replacement though.

While I think that sounds great in theory, this team is likely going to go into the offseason/draft needing 2 CB's a OLB that plays and a WR, so it's not going to be easy to fill all these spots and do it cheaply.

[Mecca]

Something else to remember, George Kittle is getting ready to get paid...that is going to cause Kelce who is coming to the end of his deal to basically ask for a new contract...

[jd1020]

Don't care. Finally have the QB. Everything else will sort itself out.

[RunKC]

Chris Jones situation is indeed stressful guys, but I’m choosing to not stress it.
After last off-season, I have complete faith in Brett Veach and Spags. 100%.

Assuming that we do trade Jones, I think the plan would be for more volume. Get Ogbah back and have Clark, Okafor, Tanoh, Ogbah, Speaks as a possible redemption ala Tanoh 2.0 and likely another addition there.

[smithandrew051]

While I think that sounds great in theory, this team is likely going to go into the offseason/draft needing 2 CB's a OLB that plays and a WR, so it's not going to be easy to fill all these spots and do it cheaply.

If you trade Jones for a 1st and a 5th (or something like that), I think we’ll have ample opportunity to hit our needs.

We might also be smart to trade down with one (or both) first round picks to get more picks.

With the way we drafted last year, I have total faith in Veach/Reid to find parts throughout the draft. It’s supposed to be a very strong year for CB and WR.

[Mecca]

If you trade Jones for a 1st and a 5th (or something like that), I think we’ll have ample opportunity to hit our needs.

We might also be smart to trade down with one (or both) first round picks to get more picks.

With the way we drafted last year, I have total faith in Veach/Reid to find parts throughout the draft. It’s supposed to be a very strong year for CB and WR.

It's just not a super easy thing to do as young players generally take time, do you think Hardman is ready to start?

I think there's also a very good chance that this was the last season Mahomes has a veteran backup also.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Is it true that Jones has 0 postseason sacks? And he wants 20 mil?

If he won't take a reasonable deal, tell him to get f***ed. No selfish overpaid schmucks are going to derail this train.

[Mecca]

Is it true that Jones has 0 postseason sacks? And he wants 20 mil?

If he won't take a reasonable deal, tell him to get f***ed. No selfish overpaid schmucks are going to derail this train.

When he knows he can get 20+ mill a year on the market why should he ask for less?

If someone offered you that kinda money to do what you do, you'd leave your current job. It's a business, especially for Jones who hasn't gotten paid yet.

[wachashi]

At this point in the season, it's in both KC's and Chris Jones' interests to say that he will be back next season. Happens all the time in this league to try and extract maximum value on a trade offer. I wouldn't put much stock at all into what Veach says about Jones right now. Nor would I put much stock at all into what Jones says about wanting to stay here. Cash rules everything and this is a business.

[smithandrew051]

It's just not a super easy thing to do as young players generally take time, do you think Hardman is ready to start?

I think there's also a very good chance that this was the last season Mahomes has a veteran backup also.

Hardman is going to have to be ready. Hopefully he spends the offseason working with Tyreek.

If his year 1 to year 2 improvement is anything even close to Tyreek’s, then yes he’ll be ready.

[Mecca]

Just be rational about it...Chris Jones and Sammy Watkins aren't coming back, if we were looking at another team we'd be saying that.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Sacks don’t really matter in the post season. Jones single handedly won that game for us with 4 batted ��

[Hoover]

I think Hardman is ready to play. I saw nothing that would suggest otherwise. That said, I'd also probably draft another WR in a deep draft like this, and I'd be looking to find a 1 year veteran rental. Got to think KC would be an attractive spot for a vet looking to put up big numbers in hopes to chase in afterwards. There are plenty of guys I think could pair well with Hill and Hardman, guys like Robby Anderson and Breshad Perriman could be poor mans Watkins. Or there are guys like Cobb or Sanders, who have played with guys like Rodgers and Manning who know how great it is to play with a QB like Mahomes.

[smithandrew051]

Just be rational about it...Chris Jones and Sammy Watkins aren't coming back, if we were looking at another team we'd be saying that.

Trade both. Watkins could have value to a team with major WR needs like the Eagles. He’s better than anyone they could reasonably hope to find in the second round. They can then negotiate a paycut/extension.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

When he knows he can get 20+ mill a year on the market why should he ask for less?

If someone offered you that kinda money to do what you do, you'd leave your current job. It's a business, especially for Jones who hasn't gotten paid yet.

No, I wouldn't take more money to go to a less rewarding situation (assuming I already had more than enough).

And I know I'd be in the minority among these greedy bastards, but I'd definitely be the type to take a big hometown discount to stay with Reid/Mahomes and build a dynasty.

The d-bags need to realize that they're already far wealthier than they have any right to be.

[Mecca]

No, I wouldn't take more money to go to a less rewarding situation.

And I know I'd be in the minority among these greedy bastards, but I'd definitely be the type to take a big hometown discount to stay with Reid/Mahomes and build a dynasty.

The d-bags need to realize that they're already far wealthier than they have any right to be.

If you thought you had a chance to get paid 1 time, you'd take the most you could get. It just blows my mind that anyone thinks these guys should take less than their market value.

If you think that's the case then teams that win should never lose FAs.

[St. Patty's Fire]

If we trade Jones we damn well better be looking at pass rush with the pick we get for him.

[smithandrew051]

No, I wouldn't take more money to go to a less rewarding situation (assuming I already had more than enough).

And I know I'd be in the minority among these greedy bastards, but I'd definitely be the type to take a big hometown discount to stay with Reid/Mahomes and build a dynasty.

The d-bags need to realize that they're already far wealthier than they have any right to be.

You’re right, but that doesn’t mean Jones agrees. If he won’t give us a discount, then he needs to be traded.

We can’t have another big contract like that right now. I love the player, but we do have limitations.

[DRM08]

Eric Berry & Anthony Hitchens are taking up about $21M of cap space for 2020 season. That’s brutal.

[wachashi]

The d-bags need to realize that they're already far wealthier than they have any right to be.

How are they wealthier than they have any right to be? The NFL is a business. They don't play the games just for fun.

[Mecca]

We're hitting a point where we can't have high priced backups and we have to pick and choose who are cornerstones are...

They chose as an organization that it's Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, Clark and Mathieu...if you drop another huge contract in there you are going to have some serious problems.

[Mecca]

Eric Berry & Anthony Hitchens are taking up about $21M of cap space for 2020 season. That’s brutal.

Hitchens is here at least 2 more years, there is no out of that contract.

[smithandrew051]

If we trade Jones we damn well better be looking at pass rush with the pick we get for him.

Even if we roll into next season with our DL as:

Okafor-Nnadi-Pennel-Clark

Bench-Saunders, Kpassagnon, Speaks

That’s still well above average. Nnadi, Saunders, Kpassagnon, and Speaks should all continue to get better. Clark will be fully healthy.

That would assume that we don’t bring anyone new in.

[Mecca]

Even if we roll into next season with our DL as:

Okafor-Nnadi-Pennel-Clark

Bench-Saunders, Kpassagnon, Speaks

That’s still well above average. Nnadi, Saunders, Kpassagnon, and Speaks should all continue to get better. Clark will be fully healthy.

That would assume that we don’t bring anyone new in.

They carried Tim Ward all year on IR without him ever playing even in preseason so he likely gets a shot to make it at DE, you don't do that with a college guy unless you think he has something.

[CaliforniaChief]

I'm curious to see how much the cap jumps next year and what gets done with the CBA that could have a positive effect on QB salaries before deciding that Jones can't return.

I don't expect Jones to give a discount, nor should we expect it. He wants to get paid, and he will. It's the price of success that we'll have to pay.

If Veach drafts like he did in 2019, we'll be just fine.

Oh and we have the greatest player in the NFL at the most important position, so there's that too.

[jd1020]

People living a $60k lifestyle saying they wouldn't take the money if they were living a millionaires lifestyle. :rolleyes:

[Mecca]

Although if Jones is somehow moved for a good pick, I'm going to target Ruggs out of Alabama, dude is a great fit for the offense and is a good replacement for Watkins.

[Hoover]

I may have suggested this before.

I'm torn about Jones. I love everything about the guy, yet I think the team needs cap flexibility and young talent long term. So here is my crazy idea.

Trade Watkins to the Bears for Leonard Floyd, who is in the final year of his rookie deal. The money is similar I believe. Bears need to help Mitch more than anything, and there is no way they are keeping Floyd. So you add a flexible OLB to the defense which I have no doubt Spags could maximize, and then you trade Jones so you can fill multiple hole at CB, offensive line, and elsewhere.

[RunKC]

We're hitting a point where we can't have high priced backups and we have to pick and choose who are cornerstones are...

They chose as an organization that it's Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, Clark and Mathieu...if you drop another huge contract in there you are going to have some serious problems.

It makes sense. I think we can barely fit Jones in there, but we would have no money at all for really any FA’s, even cheap ones.

It would certainly help if we got a 1st for Jones and used those 2 1st rd picks on Watkins and Jones replacements.

Not sure there is a really good DL available after the first half of the first rd though.

[Halfcan]

You’re right, but that doesn’t mean Jones agrees. If he won’t give us a discount, then he needs to be traded.

We can’t have another big contract like that right now. I love the player, but we do have limitations.

Jones talked a LOT after the Superbowl. He said he wants to stay here for his career and was confident that Veech would get something done.

He is the most important player on our defense.

[Mecca]

Also that decision on Hitchens hurts but we're stuck with him for now.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Mahomes deal will get done after the draft. CBA should get done before March 18. This is gonna be very interesting

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">From <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLTotalAccess?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLTotalAccess</a>: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> and Patrick Mahomes are trying to build a dynasty, so expect them to take their time working out his (monster) contract extension, which probably won&#39;t be done until after the draft. <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@nflnetwork</a> <a href="https://t.co/oyfqhShios">pic.twitter.com/oyfqhShios</a></p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1225574530460024832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[scho63]

Eric Berry & Anthony Hitchens are taking up about $21M of cap space for 2020 season. That’s brutal.

:banghead:

That's hurts worse than a proctology exam from Shaq

[Halfcan]

Eric Berry & Anthony Hitchens are taking up about $21M of cap space for 2020 season. That’s brutal.

Berry's spirit continues to haunt this team.

[smithandrew051]

Jones talked a LOT after the Superbowl. He said he wants to stay here for his career and was confident that Veech would get something done.

He is the most important player on our defense.

Given the depth we have at each level, I would suggest that Matheiu is the most important player on our defense.

Of course, he’ll say that. He only hurts his value by saying otherwise.

[Hoover]

It would certainly help if we got a 1st for Jones and used those 2 1st rd picks on Watkins and Jones replacements.

No, a CB and WR

[comochiefsfan]

Mahomes deal will get done after the draft. CBA should get done before March 18. This is gonna be very interesting

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">From <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLTotalAccess?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLTotalAccess</a>: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> and Patrick Mahomes are trying to build a dynasty, so expect them to take their time working out his (monster) contract extension, which probably won&#39;t be done until after the draft. <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@nflnetwork</a> <a href="https://t.co/oyfqhShios">pic.twitter.com/oyfqhShios</a></p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1225574530460024832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hopefully Steinberg is willing to play ball here a little.

Sit Steinberg, Mahomes, Veach, and Andy together in a room and figure out how to make this work so Pat can get the compensation he’s earned while allowing Veach and Reid to keep pieces around him.

Talk it out and come to a scenario where everybody wins.

[Hoover]

Hopefully Steinberg is willing to play ball here a little.

Sit Steinberg, Mahomes, Veach, and Andy together in a room and figure out how to make this work so Pat can get the compensation he’s earned while allowing Veach and Reid to keep pieces around him.

Talk it out and come to a scenario where everybody wins.
The NFL would shit their pants if Mahomes figured out a team friendly deal. Could you imagine paying Mahomes like Brady was paid in NE? There would be riots in the streets. NE got away with it because Brady wasn't anything like Pat in his first years at QB.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Hopefully Steinberg is willing to play ball here a little.

Sit Steinberg, Mahomes, Veach, and Andy together in a room and figure out how to make this work so Pat can get the compensation he’s earned while allowing Veach and Reid to keep pieces around him.

Talk it out and come to a scenario where everybody wins.

Apparently Steinberg won’t let Mahomes play next season without a new deal

[DRM08]

No, I wouldn't take more money to go to a less rewarding situation (assuming I already had more than enough).

And I know I'd be in the minority among these greedy bastards, but I'd definitely be the type to take a big hometown discount to stay with Reid/Mahomes and build a dynasty.

The d-bags need to realize that they're already far wealthier than they have any right to be.

Jones has been paid about $6.2 million total for 4 years. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a lot more employment income than most of us will ever see. But it is chump change for a guy who is one of the best at his job in the NFL. Guess we shall see if he will do a discount. If not, they have to figure out a trade.

[wachashi]

Jones is tagged then traded to the Seahawks for their 2020 first round pick (27) and their 2021 fourth rounder. Now with two first round picks, KC moves back by trading their own first round pick (32) to Atlanta in exchange for their 2020 second round pick (55), third round pick (78), and a future fourth rounder. That gives the Chiefs:

1st: 27
2nd: 55, 63
3rd: 78, 96
4th: 135
Plus Atlanta's and Seattle's 2021 fourth rounders.

Mahomes will be the highest paid player in the league, which is going to force the Chiefs to acquire more talent through the draft and less through free agency. I think Jones is gone unfortunately.

[Mecca]

Here's what I would try to do if I was the Chiefs...

Chris Jones is probably going to be moved, I'm going to try to get a 1 and a 3, preferably decently high picks.

Cut list
Watkins
LDT
Sorenson
Colquitt/possible retire here

Guys not returning that are FAs
Henne
Moore
McCoy
Robinson
Suggs/probably retirement here
Ogbah, ends get paid
Ragland
Lee
Fuller
Breeland
Lucas

So this does save the Chiefs lots of money but leaves some holes. Probably need to bring these guys back...

Pennell
Wisniewski
Bell
Sherman

So with that there is a bit of money to play with for FA and if you get solid picks for Jones you can hopefully target a CB late in round 1 and maybe just maybe things break your way and you get Simmons as I think that would really help the defense.

[DRM08]

The NFL would shit their pants if Mahomes figured out a team friendly deal. Could you imagine paying Mahomes like Brady was paid in NE? There would be riots in the streets. NE got away with it because Brady wasn't anything like Pat in his first years at QB.

Brady was given a record-breaking contract after his rookie deal. At the time, he was still a game manager. He started doing the discounts later in his career when he developed into an elite QB.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

We are not cutting Dirty Dan!!

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Mahomes also isn’t married to the #1 super model in the world and she gets paid way more than Tom does.

[Mecca]

We are not cutting Dirty Dan!!

He is almost a 6 million dollar cap hit, can you justify that for a 3rd safety?

[Hoover]

He is almost a 6 million dollar cap hit, can you justify that for a 3rd safety?
This is 100% correct. A little too costly for what he actually is.

[The Franchise]

Brady was given a record-breaking contract after his rookie deal. At the time, he was still a game manager. He started doing the discounts later in his career when he developed into an elite QB.

He was also a 6th round pick who hadn’t made shit up until that point in his career.

[wachashi]

Jones is tagged then traded to the Seahawks for their 2020 first round pick (27) and their 2021 fourth rounder. Now with two first round picks, KC moves back by trading their own first round pick (32) to Atlanta in exchange for their 2020 second round pick (55), third round pick (78), and a future fourth rounder. That gives the Chiefs:

1st: 27
2nd: 55, 63
3rd: 78, 96
4th: 135
Plus Atlanta's and Seattle's 2021 fourth rounders.

Mahomes will be the highest paid player in the league, which is going to force the Chiefs to acquire more talent through the draft and less through free agency. I think Jones is gone unfortunately.

I used this trade value chart to try and stay realistic:

DRAFTEK (https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=ATL)

I doubt Jones is going to command more draft capital than Clark given the positions they play. We gave up pick 30 and a future second rounder for Clark.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

People living a $60k lifestyle saying they wouldn't take the money if they were living a millionaires lifestyle. :rolleyes:

My lifestyle wouldn't change that much if I were a millionaire. But I understand that our culture promotes greed.

Money is God. And tens of millions just ain't enough.

[Mecca]

This is 100% correct. A little too costly for what he actually is.

Sorenson isn't awful or anything but when we are going to have the highest paid QB in the league, that is a luxury we don't have anymore.

Guys like Sorenson have to be replaced by late draft picks/UDFAs that guy do the job or vets that will take cheap deals to win. That is the reality of the situation.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

He is almost a 6 million dollar cap hit, can you justify that for a 3rd safety?

His cap hit for next year is 4.75 mil

We would only save 3.75 mil by cutting him

[suzzer99]

Eric Berry & Anthony Hitchens are taking up about $21M of cap space for 2020 season. That’s brutal.

We sucked pretty bad when Hitchens was out. I think he's one of those guys like Fisher that isn't spectacular but the alternative is much much worse.

He's not worth $15M but he's probably worth $10M.

At least we're done done with Berry after this.

Also anyone who thinks we can get much in trade for one year of Watkins at $21M is crazy.

Jones tag and trade seems very live.

[smithandrew051]

Here’s my personal position order of importance for this offseason:

1. Secondary (I’m not saying “corner”, because we target hybrid players in our defense)
2. Interior OL (I like Wis and Rankin at G, but we need to upgrade C; any threat of a run game will tremendously help protect Mahomes)
3. LB (this would be higher, but we did just win the Super Bowl with below average talent here)
4. DL (just the guys coming back gives us an above average line, and that assumes no one takes a big step forward)
5. WR (I think we already have 2 very good-great WRs; Pringle can be a solid 4th; Kemp can be a good 5th)
6. RB (I like Thompson and Williams, but we need 1 more; helping the interior OL will make a big impact here)

[Hoover]

Brady was given a record-breaking contract after his rookie deal. At the time, he was still a game manager. He started doing the discounts later in his career when he developed into an elite QB.
Brady's 2nd contract was Deal: 5 years, $30.52M Signing Bonus: $10M

[DRM08]

He was also a 6th round pick who hadn’t made shit up until that point in his career.

Exactly. Got paid top dollar for being a game manager on a great team with incredible defense. Guessing Belichick hated that contract at the time.

Mahomes was paid as a top 10 pick, but that is chump change when you realize bums like Trubisky, Solomon Thomas, Mayfield and others have been paid about double Mahomes. Hard to blame his agent if they demand top dollar. But the only way to get a dynasty is if he gives a serious discount.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Tee Higgins or Justin Jefferson should be available at #32 when it comes to a WR

[smithandrew051]

We sucked pretty bad when Hitchens was out. I think he's one of those guys like Fisher that isn't spectacular but the alternative is much much worse.

He's not worth $15M but he's probably worth $10M.

At least we're done done with Berry after this.

Also anyone who thinks we can get much in trade for one year of Watkins at $21M is crazy.

Jones tag and trade seems very live.

The idea behind trading Watkins is that the team who trades for him would have a new deal done at the time the trade is completed. Basically, the trade allows the other team the exclusive right to re-negotiate the deal.

Otherwise, Watkins will be outright released.

[Halfcan]

Jones is tagged then traded to the Seahawks for their 2020 first round pick (27) and their 2021 fourth rounder. Now with two first round picks, KC moves back by trading their own first round pick (32) to Atlanta in exchange for their 2020 second round pick (55), third round pick (78), and a future fourth rounder. That gives the Chiefs:

1st: 27
2nd: 55, 63
3rd: 78, 96
4th: 135
Plus Atlanta's and Seattle's 2021 fourth rounders.

Mahomes will be the highest paid player in the league, which is going to force the Chiefs to acquire more talent through the draft and less through free agency. I think Jones is gone unfortunately.

Jones is worth more than that for compensation.

[FloridaMan88]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">�� <a href="https://t.co/D1XOrrPmsH">https://t.co/D1XOrrPmsH</a> <a href="https://t.co/DSSm2jpfZ4">pic.twitter.com/DSSm2jpfZ4</a></p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1225805615190171648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This would be the best strategy IMO.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Here’s my personal position order of importance for this offseason:

1. Secondary (I’m not saying “corner”, because we target hybrid players in our defense)
2. Interior OL (I like Wis and Rankin at G, but we need to upgrade C; any threat of a run game will tremendously help protect Mahomes)
3. LB (this would be higher, but we did just win the Super Bowl with below average talent here)
4. DL (just the guys coming back gives us an above average line, and that assumes no one takes a big step forward)
5. WR (I think we already have 2 very good-great WRs; Pringle can be a solid 4th; Kemp can be a good 5th)
6. RB (I like Thompson and Williams, but we need 1 more; helping the interior OL will make a big impact here)

Reiter was actually the best OL besides Schwartz against the 49ers. He doesn’t suck. LDT got manhandled. We need to replace him

[Halfcan]

The idea behind trading Watkins is that the team who trades for him would have a new deal done at the time the trade is completed. Basically, the trade allows the other team the exclusive right to re-negotiate the deal.

Otherwise, Watkins will be outright released.

Lose our 2nd best receiver who just balled out in the playoffs, And take a Huge cap hit?

[smithandrew051]

Reiter was actually the best OL besides Schwartz against the 49ers. He doesn’t suck. LDT got manhandled. We need to replace him

I think we already have his replacement in Rankin. He looked great until his injury. Sign Wis to a one year deal to start at the other guard. Reiter becomes the weak link then.

[RunKC]

He is almost a 6 million dollar cap hit, can you justify that for a 3rd safety?

Yes. Thornhill won’t be back until mid season at best and I trust Dan to be a solid #2 back there.

We don’t have to get rid of literally everybody bc we are paying Pat

[wachashi]

Jones is worth more than that for compensation.

Maybe, but I'm operating under the assumption that Jones will command less in draft capital than Clark did, given the positions they play.

Frank Clark: Pick 30 (620 value points) + future second
Chris Jones: Pick 27 (680 value points) + future fourth

DRAFTEK (https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=KC)

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I think we already have his replacement in Rankin. He looked great until his injury. Sign Wis to a one year deal to start at the other guard. Reiter becomes the weak link then.

Wiz is gonna want to get paid too. We can’t pay everyone. This is Reiters last year tho. This team is gonna look really different next year

[DRM08]

Lose our 2nd best receiver who just balled out in the playoffs, And take a Huge cap hit?

Cutting him would save $14M on the cap. They very well might need this money to fill out the roster with solid players.

[kcclone]

No, I wouldn't take more money to go to a less rewarding situation (assuming I already had more than enough).

And I know I'd be in the minority among these greedy bastards, but I'd definitely be the type to take a big hometown discount to stay with Reid/Mahomes and build a dynasty.

The d-bags need to realize that they're already far wealthier than they have any right to be.



What?

You sound like a communist here. What is the proper amount of wealth they they have the "right to" in your opinion?

You do realize the following don't you?:

1- You (and I and other fans) pay their salaries via ticket sales, TV viewership, gear, etc

2- Their bodies and brains take a beating that cuts their life and quality of life shorter than most careers.

[The Franchise]

Wiz is gonna want to get paid too. We can’t pay everyone. This is Reiters last year tho. This team is gonna look really different next year

Says fucking who? Dude was sitting out there until we signed him. I highly doubt he’s out there looking to break the bank.

[smithandrew051]

Cutting him would save $14M on the cap. They very well might need this money to fill out the roster with solid players.

Beat me to it.

Veach can’t (and won’t) become a prisoner of the moment. We all love what Watkins has done in every playoff game as a Chief, but he disappears for long stretches every season and is constantly battling injuries.

We can’t pay him this much for another season. Hardman will have to step up as a true number 2 (and I think he will).

There are really 3 options:

-release
-renegotiate
-trade

He won’t be back at his current price tag.

[smithandrew051]

Says fucking who? Dude was sitting out there until we signed him. I highly doubt he’s out there looking to break the bank.

I bet we can get him on a decent 1-year deal. Then draft his replacement next year.

[suzzer99]

What?

You sound like a communist here. What is the proper amount of wealth they they have the "right to" in your opinion?

You do realize the following don't you?:

1- You (and I and other fans) pay their salaries via ticket sales, TV viewership, gear, etc

2- Their bodies and brains take a beating that cuts their life and quality of life shorter than most careers.

No shit man - these guys are risking life-long physical and mental disability for our entertainment. They deserve every cent they can get.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Says ****ing who? Dude was sitting out there until we signed him. I highly doubt he’s out there looking to break the bank.

And he balled out in the playoffs. He is gonna command some money now

[Randallflagg]

What?

You sound like a communist here. What is the proper amount of wealth they they have the "right to" in your opinion?

You do realize the following don't you?:

1- You (and I and other fans) pay their salaries via ticket sales, TV viewership, gear, etc

2- Their bodies and brains take a beating that cuts their life and quality of life shorter than most careers.


While I absolutely agree with your first point, I have to take exception with the second. They are not "required" to play football. They have chosen that. The beating they take comes with the job and they accept that. But I do agree that their careers are relatively short - and they make as much as they can while they can. Can't fault them at all.

[Mecca]

Yes. Thornhill won’t be back until mid season at best and I trust Dan to be a solid #2 back there.

We don’t have to get rid of literally everybody bc we are paying Pat

Look at our cap numbers for next year, we have several huge ones, you throw in a new Mahomes contract unless there are multiple cuts we won't even be able to fill out a 53.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Frank Clark&#39;s cap hit is taking a monster leap this off-season.<br><br>2019: $6.5M<br>2020: $22.7M<br><br>Sammy<br>$19.2<br>$21<br><br>Schwartz<br>$6.43<br>$10.82<br><br>Fisher<br>$7.04<br>$14.98<br><br>Mahomes<br>$4.48<br>$5.23<br><br>Hitchens<br>$5.23<br>$12.69</p>&mdash; Josh Webb (@shwebb29) <a href="https://twitter.com/shwebb29/status/1225610772237225984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That also doesn't even show Mathieu's number which ramps up.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Do we even re sign Pat knowing what he wants?? We’re not gonna have a team. We’re gonna have vet min signings at near every single position

[Mecca]

Do we even re sign Pat knowing what he wants?? We’re not gonna have a team. We’re gonna have vet min signings at near every single position

......

If you make the moves I suggested you can get up to nearly 40 mill of space, If you give Mahomes a 20 mill base in year 1 then you still have money to work with and you'll get some more money back that next year.

[Halfcan]

Cutting him would save $14M on the cap. They very well might need this money to fill out the roster with solid players.

7 Million in Dead Cap money- plus losing our 2nd best WR. That was my point. I am not advocating keeping him at 21 million.

Sammy has all the leverage. I am not sure any team will trade for him with that kind of salary due.

[CaliforniaChief]

LMAO at people saying we're screwed.

1. WE JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL.
2. WE HAVE THE BEST PLAYER IN THE NFL AT THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION.
3. WE HAVE THE BEST FRONT OFFICE/COACHING STAFF IN THE LEAGUE.
4. BECAUSE CHIEFS BABY!

We'll work it out. I have ZERO concerns. None.

[Halfcan]

Do we even re sign Pat knowing what he wants?? We’re not gonna have a team. We’re gonna have vet min signings at near every single position

:hmmm:

Yep, we should cut this over-paid bum. :doh!:

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

......

If you make the moves I suggested you can get up to nearly 40 mill of space, If you give Mahomes a 20 mill base in year 1 then you still have money to work with and you'll get some more money back that next year.

Yea I would give him a low first year cap hit as the cap number will go up and up each year but what if Pats agent is playing hardball and will want a percentage of the cap each year instead of a set amount?

[Mecca]

We aren't screwed at all, we'll be a consistent contender but we do have to make good money decisions and good draft picks or we'll be the Packers.

[RunKC]

Look at our cap numbers for next year, we have several huge ones, you throw in a new Mahomes contract unless there are multiple cuts we won't even be able to fill out a 53.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Frank Clark&#39;s cap hit is taking a monster leap this off-season.<br><br>2019: $6.5M<br>2020: $22.7M<br><br>Sammy<br>$19.2<br>$21<br><br>Schwartz<br>$6.43<br>$10.82<br><br>Fisher<br>$7.04<br>$14.98<br><br>Mahomes<br>$4.48<br>$5.23<br><br>Hitchens<br>$5.23<br>$12.69</p>&mdash; Josh Webb (@shwebb29) <a href="https://twitter.com/shwebb29/status/1225610772237225984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That also doesn't even show Mathieu's number which ramps up.

Mahomes cap hit isn’t going to be $40 million next year. It’s an extension, so his rookie deal with help factor it in. Goff’s first year cap hit was $10 million. Wentz has an $8 million first year hit.

Dan is here 1 more year at a fairly low price tag. I don’t think it will be a problem.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Dez to the Chiefs??? Pat is working out with Dez and Mecole


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ll see y’all there ���� <a href="https://t.co/MgDwPo7ETJ">https://t.co/MgDwPo7ETJ</a></p>&mdash; Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) <a href="https://twitter.com/PatrickMahomes/status/1225853005326626817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[The Franchise]

Do we even re sign Pat knowing what he wants?? We’re not gonna have a team. We’re gonna have vet min signings at near every single position

God damn....you really are a fucking moron.

[Hoover]

7 Million in Dead Cap money- plus losing our 2nd best WR. That was my point. I am not advocating keeping him at 21 million.

Sammy has all the leverage. I am not sure any team will trade for him with that kind of salary due.
Im not sure its smart to extend Sammy either.

Look, I get that we won a Super Bowl with these guys but the smart move is stay young through the draft. You can't be paying Sammy, Sorenson, and Jones huge money. Good teams always have to make difficult choices.

[CaliforniaChief]

Do we even re sign Pat knowing what he wants?? We’re not gonna have a team. We’re gonna have vet min signings at near every single position

You being perma-banned is LITERALLY the only thing standing between us and a perfect 2020.

Please do something bannable.

[RunKC]

If we are trading Chris Jones, I am pressing for a 1st and 3rd. No matter what we get back, I’d like to trade down with one of those first rd picks to get a 3rd.

If we can get 5 top 100 picks, that would be ideal.

[Chief Roundup]

Some real doozies in this thread.
Cut Fisher, yeah right that is pretty damn stupid, we seen what his backup can do and it was horrible and you cannot replace him witih the 32cd pick. Pennel is better than Jones is just as damn stupid. Restructure Clark after the first year of his mega deal is a bad idea as well. There are many many more in this thread.
Where have some of you heard that Steinberg is going to "force" Mahomes to set out without a new contract? Like an agent can force that to begin with. All of the analysts that cover the Chiefs have been saying for a while now that the Chiefs and Mahomes are looking to get this new contract extension done in the next 12 to 15 months.
How can some of you say that Jones is worth, which means will bring us, more than a single first round pick this year when you have seen what Dee Ford and Frank Clark got in return.

[The Franchise]

Some real doozies in this thread.
Cut Fisher, yeah right that is pretty damn stupid, we seen what his backup can do and it was horrible and you cannot replace him witih the 32cd pick. Pennel is better than Jones is just as damn stupid. Restructure Clark after the first year of his mega deal is a bad idea as well. There are many many more in this thread.
Where have some of you heard that Steinberg is going to "force" Mahomes to set out without a new contract? Like an agent can force that to begin with. All of the analysts that cover the Chiefs have been saying for a while now that the Chiefs and Mahomes are looking to get this new contract extension done in the next 12 to 15 months.
How can some of you say that Jones is worth, which means will bring us, more than a single first round pick this year when you have seen what Dee Ford and Frank Clark got in return.

Maybe because Chris Jones is 5 times the player that Dee Ford is?

[smithandrew051]

Do we even re sign Pat knowing what he wants?? We’re not gonna have a team. We’re gonna have vet min signings at near every single position

GOOD POINT! I mean what’s the guy even done to deserve a huge contract?

Besides winning MVP, getting us to consecutive AFCCG, winning the Super Bowl, winning Super Bowl MVP, being the best player in the league at the most important position, and only being 24.

Besides those things, HE HASNT DONE SHIT!

[chiefzilla1501]

Ultimately the goal will be to get mahomes paid but also get him to a friendlier team deal. I think he will be motivated to do both. The great thing about our salary cap is veach really front loaded our cap the next 2-3 years. Which with the new cba now looks very cap friendly. We should be good for a few years. Where it gets really interesting is when contracts like Mathieu and Wilson and okafor etc. start to expire. They'll all come at once.

So what do we do with Mahomes contract? I'm thinking we frontload the hell out of it. I have a feeling mahomes will eventually want to Brady his deal and flex his salary to help get players they need. But before he does that why not overpay him the first few years? Mega signing bonus that will virtually guarantee his contract long term. Huge base salaries early on. Then lower the base salary in later years with an additional signing bonus trigger in year 3 or 4.

[Chief Roundup]

Maybe because Chris Jones is 5 times the player that Dee Ford is?

No argument from me on that. Most teams don't want to give up multiple picks and $100M contract for a DT.

[poolboy]

I would really try to keep as much of the d together so we can start out a little faster next year

[jd1020]

Maybe because Chris Jones is 5 times the player that Dee Ford is?

Who the fuck is Dee Ford?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

What?

You sound like a communist here. What is the proper amount of wealth they they have the "right to" in your opinion?

You do realize the following don't you?:

1- You (and I and other fans) pay their salaries via ticket sales, TV viewership, gear, etc

2- Their bodies and brains take a beating that cuts their life and quality of life shorter than most careers.

So you honestly believe that these people are paid what they "deserve?"

And yeah....ticket/merchandise prices are ridiculous. You're proving my point.

It's too bad that no one cared about the beating that Lenny Dawson and company took in their day. Poor guy had to go to a second job after practice. I don't think he was bitching and crying about it though.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I would really try to keep as much of the d together so we can start out a little faster next year

You know who is coming back for sure next season!!!

BREELAND SPEAKS!!!

[smithandrew051]

I know things don’t work this way, but doesn’t Pat stand to make a lot more money by winning than he can make in salary from the Chiefs?

If he keeps winning Super Bowls, he’ll continue to be the face of the league for the foreseeable future. He will get whatever endorsement deal he wants. He’ll continue to make more and more off the field than he ever could on the field.

[chiefzilla1501]

We have some play money for the next few years even with the mahomes contract. We have a super bowl team now. Keep that going for a few years even if it leads to an eventual painful rebuild. Where mahomes needs to differ from guys like Rodgers is recognizing the need to adapt his contract mid contract. A few years in, mahomes will have to start making choices about whether to make more money, or save his team. The difference is by then he will already be filthy rich.

I really believe pat is cut from a different cloth and would be open to doing it this way. He wants to be known as a great and will take a few cuts here and there to cement that legacy

[wachashi]

If we are trading Chris Jones, I am pressing for a 1st and 3rd. No matter what we get back, I’d like to trade down with one of those first rd picks to get a 3rd.

If we can get 5 top 100 picks, that would be ideal.

We gave up a late first round pick and a FUTURE late 2nd round pick for Clark. I don't see a team matching that offer for Jones, because DEs are valued more than DTs, and Jones has shown some weakness in parts of his game.

I think best case for Jones is we get Seattle's 2020 first round pick, and their 2021 third round pick.

[FloridaMan88]

I’ve been trying to think of defensive players in recent history who played up to their big contract after getting paid.

Frank Clark this season, yes

But Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, and Demarcus Lawerence all had declines in their individual production a year after getting paid and all three of their respective teams missed the playoffs.

And of course there are the recent examples of Justin Houston and Eric Berry in KC.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Frank Clark is making the rounds on ESPN and every single show they have mentioned he’s under the weather. Nah my dude is just hungover

[smithandrew051]

Frank Clark is making the rounds on ESPN and every single show they have mentioned he’s under the weather. Nah my dude is just hungover

Relevant post!

[MahiMike]

Keep as many as the guys upfront on the DL as possible. The secondary is replacable. Except for Sorensen of course!

Bye bye Sammy. Hello Mecole.

[DRM08]

GOOD POINT! I mean what’s the guy even done to deserve a huge contract?

Besides winning MVP, getting us to consecutive AFCCG, winning the Super Bowl, winning Super Bowl MVP, being the best player in the league at the most important position, and only being 24.

Besides those things, HE HASNT DONE SHIT!

No matter how good he is, you still gotta have a strong roster in general. He had a losing record in college because the team around him was garbage. I think his only path to a dynasty is to give discounts to KC front office. But his agent would not be wrong in pointing out that even with Mahomes on a dirt cheap rookie deal, the KC front office gave him one of the worst defenses in NFL history during the 2018 season.

[Halfcan]

We gave up a late first round pick and a FUTURE late 2nd round pick for Clark. I don't see a team matching that offer for Jones, because DEs are valued more than DTs, and Jones has shown some weakness in parts of his game.

I think best case for Jones is we get Seattle's 2020 first round pick, and their 2021 third round pick.

Where is all this Jones to the Seahags talk coming from?

They still have to figure out something on Clowney.

[wachashi]

Where is all this Jones to the Seahags talk coming from?

They still have to figure out something on Clowney.

It's as good of a guess as any at this point. Welcome to the off season.

They're in the NFC, they're a contender, they need pass-rush help, they have cap space, they have draft capital, and they have an existing tag/trade relationship with the Chiefs organization.

[Dunerdr]

Where is all this Jones to the Seahags talk coming from?

They still have to figure out something on Clowney.

Same place the pat will get a contract based on a percentage of the cap stuff comes from, nowhere. That never happened and probably wont happen. It started as a cp mention and has now taken a life of its own.

[RunKC]

Hmmm

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That’s always been the plan. From day 1</p>&mdash; Chris Jones (@StoneColdJones) <a href="https://twitter.com/StoneColdJones/status/1225848467249156100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

ITS HAPPENING!!!

[Hydrae]

Hmmm

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That’s always been the plan. From day 1</p>&mdash; Chris Jones (@StoneColdJones) <a href="https://twitter.com/StoneColdJones/status/1225848467249156100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

OH YEAH!

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Jones will re sign here. Just trust Veach guys. He’s not like Dorsey when it comes to the cap. He knows what he’s doing. I expect Jones to re sign at a 5/98.5 deal with 65 guaranteed. A lot of this will be backloaded as Mahomes should be frontloaded so it evens out

[Dunerdr]

Jones will re sign here. Just trust Veach guys. He’s not like Dorsey when it comes to the cap. He knows what he’s doing. I expect Jones to re sign at a 5/98.5 deal with 65 guaranteed. A lot of this will be backloaded as Mahomes should be frontloaded so it evens out

ok penbrook

[Mr. Plow]

Relevant post!

He does it in every. single. thread.

[DRM08]

Jones will re sign here. Just trust Veach guys. He’s not like Dorsey when it comes to the cap. He knows what he’s doing. I expect Jones to re sign at a 5/98.5 deal with 65 guaranteed. A lot of this will be backloaded as Mahomes should be frontloaded so it evens out

If anything it should be the other way around on frontloading.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

If anything it should be the other way around on frontloading.

So you think we should frontloaded Jones and backload Mahomes?

[DRM08]

So you think we should frontloaded Jones and backload Mahomes?

Yep. Mahomes will be in his prime 5-6 years down the road. Higher salary makes sense at that point. Will Jones still be in his prime 4-5 years from now? Setting that aside, Jones has made $6.2M and Mahomes has made $13.7M. Would think the lower paid guy needs more frontloading on the new contract.

[Chargem]

Yep. Mahomes will be in his prime 5-6 years down the road. Higher salary makes sense at that point. Will Jones still be in his prime 4-5 years from now? Setting that aside, Jones has made $6.2M and Mahomes has made $13.7M. Would think the lower paid guy needs more frontloading on the new contract.

There isn't any room to front load either contract right now. Front and back loading is also purely related to the cap, and nothing to do with when the guy gets the cash a lot of the time.

[Halfcan]

Hmmm

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That’s always been the plan. From day 1</p>&mdash; Chris Jones (@StoneColdJones) <a href="https://twitter.com/StoneColdJones/status/1225848467249156100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

How many times does Jones have to say he wants to play in KC his entire career before people stop trying to trade this guy off?

He is one of the best young defensive players in the NFL. Good luck trying to replace him.

[jd1020]

How many times does Jones have to say he wants to play in KC his entire career before people stop trying to trade this guy off?

He is one of the best young defensive players in the NFL. Good luck trying to replace him.

How many players spend their entire career with the team that drafted them?

[RunKC]

That’s why the dynasty talk is premature. It’s hard to be a dynasty and only 2 teams have done it in the salary cap era: Denver and NE.

And guess what? They both got caught cheating.

We had an incredible amount of luck this year. That doesn’t always happen.

[Why Not?]

That’s why the dynasty talk is premature. It’s hard to be a dynasty and only 2 teams have done it in the salary cap era: Denver and NE.

And guess what? They both got caught cheating.

We had an incredible amount of luck this year. That doesn’t always happen.

Winning back to back Super Bowls and then nothing for close to 20 years doesn’t make you a dynasty. NE is the first football dynasty since the early to mid 90’s Cowboys. I would think 3 out of 5 or at worst 3 out of 6 is required to be considered a dynasty.

[RunKC]

Winning back to back Super Bowls and then nothing for close to 20 years doesn’t make you a dynasty. NE is the first football dynasty since the early to mid 90’s Cowboys. I would think 3 out of 5 or at worst 3 out of 6 is required to be considered a dynasty.

Yeah I meant back-to-back. Still same thing applies with a dynasty. Both are extremely difficult things to do

[PurpleRiders51]

Sorenson isn't awful or anything but when we are going to have the highest paid QB in the league, that is a luxury we don't have anymore.

Guys like Sorenson have to be replaced by late draft picks/UDFAs that guy do the job or vets that will take cheap deals to win. That is the reality of the situation.

Don't we have Thornhill coming back next year? DD won't be necessary then.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Don't we have Thornhill coming back next year? DD won't be necessary then.

Even when Thornhill was playing, dirty dan got 80% of the snaps

[smithandrew051]

That’s why the dynasty talk is premature. It’s hard to be a dynasty and only 2 teams have done it in the salary cap era: Denver and NE.

And guess what? They both got caught cheating.

We had an incredible amount of luck this year. That doesn’t always happen.

We also had an incredible amount of bad luck this year too. That doesn’t always happen.

[Walt White]

I know Pat can make it work with whatever on offense. But we should be trying to make this the best offense ever. Make our strength and all time great strength. Imagine it with a better O Line and even better running game.

I don't want to take steps back there. Regardless if we have to lose Watkins and D Rob. Draft an OL for sure and maybe find some gems/vets for depth. But we might as well continue to build the best WR group in the league. I know we will find a gem at WR this draft. We will sign a vet that will revive his career with Pat. And at RB, we got Damien. Then sign a vet cheap that needs another shot. And draft one.

I will trust what we do in the draft regardless. But I'd be okay with going WR and RB with our first two picks even with the other perceived needs. If we know there is OL or CB we grade high that will be available later. I just don't want to force drafting a line backer or something just because we need one. If we can find a steal later or love one, great. But this is supposed to be a weak LB class so we can fill that else where if need be. We know how to draft so that is a big plus. I do wish we had more picks.

[RunKC]

Whenever I think about Chris Jones, I just look back and see how much of a badass Brett Veach has been.

He was right about Mahomes
He was right to get rid of Houston
He was right to get rid of Ford
He was right to get rid of Peters
He was right to go overboard for Clark
He was right to pay Matheiu
He was right about Nnandi
He was right about Hardman
He was right about Thornhill
He was right about Saunders

He’s gained a hell of a lot of slack from me right now and made up for his Speaks mistake.

If he trades Jones, I will trust that he knows what he’s doing.

[DRM08]

Nick Wright does a good job on the sticker shock with Mahomes. Costs $28M for Kirk Cousins and Jimmy G. That's the baseline for QB's in the league nowadays, so it's better to think of Mahomes at $40M in comparison to the $28M it would cost to have a typical QB in the league at this point...instead of comparing the $40M with Mahomes' rookie price at $4M.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_FgdhY2y_w

[Walt White]

Whenever I think about Chris Jones, I just look back and see how much of a badass Brett Veach has been.

He was right about Mahomes
He was right to get rid of Houston
He was right to get rid of Ford
He was right to get rid of Peters
He was right to go overboard for Clark
He was right to pay Matheiu
He was right about Nnandi
He was right about Hardman
He was right about Thornhill
He was right about Saunders

He’s gained a hell of a lot of slack from me right now and made up for his Speaks mistake.

If he trades Jones, I will trust that he knows what he’s doing.

It is kind of insane how good he has been honestly. I trust him but there is a lot riding on this off season. Chris Jones is the big decision. What we decide to do with him could determine a lot.

Even with our corners, if we free up enough money to sign them but they want big deals, we still should not do it. So it still might make more sense to keep Jones. It depends on how much depth we can actually retain and if it is worth it. If a bunch of guys are willing to stay or come here on good deals, that is one thing.

One way or another, we just can't afford anymore overpays or dead cap situations. We have to think about the future a ton as well.

[493rd]

Watkins was our best WR throughout the playoffs. I’d like to see him back if he’s willing to restructure. Next, tag Jones and try to create some wiggle room for Breeland and Fuller. Veach will have to make some tough decisions, but I have faith in whatever he thinks is best.

[Chiefs Moon]

First priority is to sign and then to protect Mahomes. Bolster the OL and don't look back. Veach is a very smart guy. I assume his trade up days are largely over. Look for him to trade back and gather picks, like the Pats and Ravens. Tag and trade Jones-- his value will never be higher. Keep Watkins if the number works, but explore a trade. This year's draft is so deep with WR's there will be good receivers released post-draft. Mahomes is now tied to the quality of team he leads. The money he takes affects what Veach can do.

[Naptown Chief]

Don't we have Thornhill coming back next year? DD won't be necessary then.

DON'T YOU DARE TALK ABOUT DREAMY DAN LIKE THAT!

[chiefzilla1501]

Is darron Lee out? His Twitter is making it sound like it.

[Chris Meck]

First priority is to sign and then to protect Mahomes. Bolster the OL and don't look back. Veach is a very smart guy. I assume his trade up days are largely over. Look for him to trade back and gather picks, like the Pats and Ravens. Tag and trade Jones-- his value will never be higher. Keep Watkins if the number works, but explore a trade. This year's draft is so deep with WR's there will be good receivers released post-draft. Mahomes is now tied to the quality of team he leads. The money he takes affects what Veach can do.

Mahomes' big money hit on the cap is still two years away unless I misunderstand the situation.

You extend him, he's got the 2020 season on his rookie number, then 2021 is the franchise tag number, then the big hit starts 2022.

Anyone verify?

Anyway, we could be four SB's deep by then.

[Chris Meck]

What would Watkins cap number look like if you extended his deal...say three years and converted a bunch of that to bonus? I don't know enough about how that works.

[Walt White]

The Watkins situation is also weird. I don't know if he wants a break from football, wants to get paid, or wants to restructure to stay with us. He is likely gone but I guess we will see. If some team really wants to pay DRob, they can go right ahead. I'd love for him to stay since he knows our offense and has chemistry with the team. But how much of his value is based on Pat making him look good?

[PurpleRiders51]

DON'T YOU DARE TALK ABOUT DREAMY DAN LIKE THAT!

Like what? I asked a question and made a observation if the answer was yes. Dan is okay, I like him and all. But if we're talking about important contributors to this year's Super Bowl win being expendable like Watkins & Jones then surely having Thronhill on a year two contract would make Dan the same.

[Kidd Lex]

Jones will be tagged. Jones will be traded. He’s a beast, but we drafted his replacement in Saunders the same as we drafted Hardman for Watkins and Fenton for Fuller. Jones production in the pass rush will be hard to replace, but we will be better against the run and save millions to invest elsewhere like the interior Oline. It’s the right play, the Chiefs have won without CJ in the lineup, and if we fix the interior Oline we protect our $40 million dollar man.

[Chargem]

Mahomes' big money hit on the cap is still two years away unless I misunderstand the situation.

You extend him, he's got the 2020 season on his rookie number, then 2021 is the franchise tag number, then the big hit starts 2022.

Anyone verify?

Anyway, we could be four SB's deep by then.

Franchise tag for a QB will still be north of $30m right?

[Kidd Lex]

Anyone watching the Chiefs knows the only time Patrick was mortal was when the interior line forced him to immediately abandon the pocket. We fix that, dynasty is all but guaranteed.

[Kidd Lex]

Franchise tag for a QB will still be north of $30m right?

By then certainly. Top 5 Contracts at the position averaged. Chiefs and Mahomes agent will never let it get there.

[chiefzilla1501]

What would Watkins cap number look like if you extended his deal...say three years and converted a bunch of that to bonus? I don't know enough about how that works.

None of Sammy's contract is guaranteed at this point so we can do just about anything we want. We could basically just give him a new deal and void the last year of his deal. It's definitely something we should consider getting done as I don't think we're in a position where we can give him $21M.

[Kidd Lex]

None of Sammy's contract is guaranteed at this point so we can do just about anything we want. We could basically just give him a new deal and void the last year of his deal. It's definitely something we should consider getting done as I don't think we're in a position where we can give him $21M.

Watkins is done outside of him agreeing to a league average contract, which I have zero belief he will. His contract was always written to have him released after this season. Unfortunately when we signed him we had to overpay as other teams were bidding up his price, and at the time Alex was our QB so we weren’t getting any discounts on free agents. I believe that changes going forward.

[Walt White]

Anyone watching the Chiefs knows the only time Patrick was mortal was when the interior line forced him to immediately abandon the pocket. We fix that, dynasty is all but guaranteed.

Is there any good vets on the market that we could have the room to sign? Even if we draft one, that would put less pressure on relying on a rookie.

Is it ideal to get both a guard and a center? I do dream of what having the best O Line would be like with Pat and whatever other weapons we could add.

[Walt White]

None of Sammy's contract is guaranteed at this point so we can do just about anything we want. We could basically just give him a new deal and void the last year of his deal. It's definitely something we should consider getting done as I don't think we're in a position where we can give him $21M.

I didn't realize he was only 26. Yeah, I think he is about to get paid actually. After showing out in the playoffs, I think we could actually get a trade for him. Maybe not a great pick, but better than nothing. Plus saving the full money.

I would love to keep him. I'm just realizing that he wouldn't take a pay cut in this market.

[tyecopeland]

I'm actually real bullish on this team looking at the spotrac data. Besides corner and a dt what we have returning is good enough to win. We shouldn't be spending much on free agents this year. Bring back Jones and breeland or fuller and rely on the draft for the majority of the rest. We have a full roster signed for next year already so while we have a lot of cap spent we are in pretty good shape really.

[DRM08]

Mahomes' big money hit on the cap is still two years away unless I misunderstand the situation.

You extend him, he's got the 2020 season on his rookie number, then 2021 is the franchise tag number, then the big hit starts 2022.

Anyone verify?

Anyway, we could be four SB's deep by then.

You mean 5th year option for 2021. That is about $25M. Franchise tag will be over $30M.

[chiefzilla1501]

There isn't any room to front load either contract right now. Front and back loading is also purely related to the cap, and nothing to do with when the guy gets the cash a lot of the time.

It depends on what you mean by frontloading. You can basically frontload mahomes contract in practice, back load it in theory.

Mahomes will get a huge signing bonus. You can basically give him gigantic base salaries later in the contract which will restructure into signing bonuses. It's a good way to get mahomes huge chunks of cash at different points in the contract without taking much of a base salary hit. A luxury you have for a qb you want to be here for 10 years, unlike a rb who you just don't know longevity.

If you structure the contract that way, you can give him big base salaries in year 2 and 3 and we could absolutely afford it. I like that approach because it allows mahomes to collect a ton of cash so that by year 3 or 4, he might be a lot more willing to take paycuts for the good of the team.

[tyecopeland]

Nobody should get front loaded. It's an outdated policy unless the new cba changes things again.

Unless you just mean cash payments. In which case, I think that's all signing bonus that gets paid immediately.

[Walt White]

Say we have to cut or trade Sammy. Does that about guarantee we keep Chris Jones, or do we still trade him too?

I would figure that leaves us with a lot of cap if we have to lose both. And I know we got some corners and D Line we got to re-sign. Which I still would not overpay anybody because we can't afford it for the future. But how much could we be left with in that kind of scenario?

I mean, if we can take any cap to add depth at multiple positions of need instead of overpaying 1 or 2 players, that seems like the better thing to do. Plus the depth from the extra picks we could receive. Unless I'm missing something and we still wouldn't have much cap.

[chiefzilla1501]

Nobody should get front loaded. It's an outdated policy unless the new cba changes things again.

Unless you just mean cash payments. In which case, I think that's all signing bonus that gets paid immediately.

If we're talking about mahomes, I like the idea. Yes, cash payments. Give him a huge signing bonus with a lot of base salary up front. Then design the contract to have huge base salary triggers later in the contract. On paper it looks like backloading, but in reality we're basically forcing him to restructure.

You could technically do the same by guaranteeing bonus money later in the contract. But I really do think mahomes halfway through his contract will want to Tom Brady this and take paycuts later in the contract if it helps boost the roster.

[Halfcan]

Jones will be tagged. Jones will be traded. He’s a beast, but we drafted his replacement in Saunders the same as we drafted Hardman for Watkins and Fenton for Fuller. Jones production in the pass rush will be hard to replace, but we will be better against the run and save millions to invest elsewhere like the interior Oline. It’s the right play, the Chiefs have won without CJ in the lineup, and if we fix the interior Oline we protect our $40 million dollar man.

Saunders is not Jones- not even close. :doh!:

[Kidd Lex]

Saunders is not Jones- not even close. :doh!:

No ****ing shit. Where did I say he was? Hardman isn’t even the same type of receiver Watkins is, but they do play the same positions, and GM’s absolutely do draft players to prepare for departing players to avoid paying for second contracts. Guess why CJ was drafted in 2016? Hungry pig ring a bell?

Thanks for the contribution to the conversation ffs.

[Kidd Lex]

To take it a step further we don’t win the SB this year without CJ. I love him. He’s very likely gone. It’s a numbers game, and we will invest the saved cap cash elsewhere and try to survive with the benefit of low cost drafted players. As I said, I think we use any resources possible to sign interior line free agents and or draft players there.

[Halfcan]

No ****ing shit. Where did I say he was? Hardman isn’t even the same type of receiver Watkins is, but they do play the same positions, and GM’s absolutely do draft players to prepare for departing players to avoid paying for second contracts. Guess why CJ was drafted in 2016? Hungry pig ring a bell?

Thanks for the contribution to the conversation ffs.

How is it a conversation when you start your post with absolutes? Jones will be tagged and traded!

This goes against everything that Jones has said- but here you are posting like it is a done deal. I was only pointing out that Saunders is not going to fill the production that Jones brings. Not even close.

At this point there is more of a chance he stays to defend the title- then gets tagged and traded-IMO based on how much Jones loves KC.

[Kidd Lex]

How is it a conversation when you start your post with absolutes? Jones will be tagged and traded!

This goes against everything that Jones has said- but here you are posting like it is a done deal. I was only pointing out that Saunders is not going to fill the production that Jones brings. Not even close.

At this point there is more of a chance he stays to defend the title- then gets tagged and traded-IMO based on how much Jones loves KC.

Now you have a take. Now we can have discourse. I was going on the record for what I believe will happen in a thread titled, “Chiefs How to play this offseason with free agency” That’s why I was approaching it that way - how I believe the Chiefs will approach the offseason in free agency starting with our free agents.

I strongly believe CJ will be tagged and traded. I could easily be wrong. A lot of athletes say a lot of things and none of it matters when the agent and the team sit down to discuss negotiations. Now we are both on record with our opinions. I’d love you to be right, CJ is a monster.

[Halfcan]

Now you have a take. Now we can have discourse. I was going on the record for what I believe will happen in a thread titled, “Chiefs How to play this offseason with free agency” That’s why I was approaching it that way - how I believe the Chiefs will approach the offseason in free agency starting with our free agents.

I strongly believe CJ will be tagged and traded. I could easily be wrong. A lot of athletes say a lot of things and none of it matters when the agent and the team sit down to discuss negotiations. Now we are both on record with our opinions. I’d love you to be right, CJ is a monster.

True- while CJ says he wants to be here- it will come down to money. It always does. My opinion is nothing more than wishful thinking I would bet. He is one of my favorite players. I think he is funny as hell and I love his attitude. But, like you stated, it is a business, so I guess if he leaves we will have to make due and try to fill the void.

It is a bitter pill that is a bit easier to swallow since we are the Champs!

[el borracho]

At some point the Chiefs are going to have to make tough decisions on the roster. We will have to replace skilled players with less expensive options. With the Chiefs invested in Tyreek and Mecole for the next few years, we may have to look for more frugal complementary WRs. Which WR scenario would everyone prefer for 2020:

a. Sammy Watkins at market value + Demarcus Robinson at market value
b. Sammy Watkins at market value + 1st or 2nd round rookie
c. Demarcus Robinson at market value + 1st or 2nd round rookie
d. Free agent WR (Amari Cooper, for example) + 1st or 2nd round rookie

[Halfcan]

At some point the Chiefs are going to have to make tough decisions on the roster. We will have to replace skilled players with less expensive options. With the Chiefs invested in Tyreek and Mecole for the next few years, we may have to look for more frugal complementary WRs. Which WR scenario would everyone prefer for 2020:

a. Sammy Watkins at market value + Demarcus Robinson at market value
b. Sammy Watkins at market value + 1st or 2nd round rookie
c. Demarcus Robinson at market value + 1st or 2nd round rookie
d. Free agent WR (Amari Cooper, for example) + 1st or 2nd round rookie

e. Pringle and Fortson + AJ Green

[Kidd Lex]

Imagine having to think about losing Watkins, Jones, Okafor, Fuller, Breeland, and others if we had lost.... ������

Chiefs are in better shape financially than many think for next season. I’d like Veach to stay savvy and not overpay, while piling up draft capital, & nabbing veterans on discounts with something to prove... that’s how you build a sustainable dynasty even with a huge QB contract.

[Halfcan]

Any chance to get Hunter Henry? He has injury issues but could be a nice bookend with Kelce.

[wazu]

The beauty of all of this is I trust Veach to put together a very good plan for maintaining this championship caliber team for 2020. I'm not sure what the right answers are, but after this past year I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt that he has them.

[Halfcan]

Imagine having to think about losing Watkins, Jones, Okafor, Fuller, Breeland, and others if we had lost.... ������

Chiefs are in better shape financially than many think for next season. I’d like Veach to stay savvy and not overpay, while piling up draft capital, & nabbing veterans on discounts with something to prove... that’s how you build a sustainable dynasty even with a huge QB contract.

That is a lot of talent to replace. Our secondary was much better than anyone could have hoped for at the beginning of camp. Losing Fuller and Breeland and (Thornhill for at least some of the season) puts us back in flux trying to defend the pass. I hope Veech has his best year yet and pulls some rabbits out of the hat.

[el borracho]

e. Pringle and Fortson + AJ Green

Green will be more expensive than Watkins, Green is 31 years old, and he didn't play at all this season after tearing his ankle up. I'm not sure I would make that investment.

[Halfcan]

Green will be more expensive than Watkins, Green is 31 years old, and he didn't play at all this season after tearing his ankle up. I'm not sure I would make that investment.

Yep, he is getting old and was hurt. Might take a cheap prove it deal to actually play with a QB that can pad his stats for one last mega-deal before he retires.

It is great we have speed in our WR's- but the blueprint will be to take away the deep ball next year. AJ Green or a Hunter Henry would feast like Kelce has on those soft middle of the field coverages.

It is fun to dream about anyway.

Reek, Hardman, AJ Green, Kelce and H. Henry all lining up. How would you even cover that? :p

[MightyMouse]

Cut LDT and Watkins unless you somehow trade him

Franchise and trade jones

Sign whoever is willing to stay for cheap

See what Bythe or whatever his name is. Talented guard coming into his prime. I also like the cb Hill from the Rams. His size might prevent him from getting a good contract so if affordable he would be a good #2.
Other than that we need to hit on cheap underrated dudes and draft well

[Kidd Lex]

At some point the Chiefs are going to have to make tough decisions on the roster. We will have to replace skilled players with less expensive options. With the Chiefs invested in Tyreek and Mecole for the next few years, we may have to look for more frugal complementary WRs. Which WR scenario would everyone prefer for 2020:

a. Sammy Watkins at market value + Demarcus Robinson at market value
b. Sammy Watkins at market value + 1st or 2nd round rookie
c. Demarcus Robinson at market value + 1st or 2nd round rookie
d. Free agent WR (Amari Cooper, for example) + 1st or 2nd round rookie

Veteran on a prove it deal and a 3rd or 4th round draft choice

Edit: if you’re a veteran who’s trying to get a multi-year deal done but need a one year prove it deal, what team is better to sign with than then the Chiefs? I really think WR is the least of our worries. Agents will be calling Veach to throw their clients at us - I believe that. I wouldn’t even spend draft capital on the position

[Kidd Lex]

1st Conley & Wilson, next Robinson & Watkins are all likely to get big deals somewhere else. I say let them. Bring us guys on the cheap, let someone else pay for past production.

[Walt White]

Imagine having to think about losing Watkins, Jones, Okafor, Fuller, Breeland, and others if we had lost.... ������

Chiefs are in better shape financially than many think for next season. I’d like Veach to stay savvy and not overpay, while piling up draft capital, & nabbing veterans on discounts with something to prove... that’s how you build a sustainable dynasty even with a huge QB contract.

Veteran on a prove it deal and a 3rd or 4th round draft choice

Edit: if you’re a veteran who’s trying to get a multi-year deal done but need a one year prove it deal, what team is better to sign with than then the Chiefs? I really think WR is the least of our worries. Agents will be calling Veach to throw their clients at us - I believe that. I wouldn’t even spend draft capital on the position
I can agree with that. But I'm okay with taking a WR or RB with one of our first two picks if we really love a guy and feel he could be the next young star.

There is a lot of tough decisions to make. I know we will have to lose some players. But my thinking is a little bit different. I do want to upgrade the defense, but I truly want to try to make one of the best offenses ever.

I know there may be more pressing needs elsewhere, but I'd rather to try to fill them with a stop gap for cheap and continue to invest into making our strengths even greater with Pat on the team. And Pat is going to make us a great offense regardless, so I see the logic of investing more in defense. There is a balance. But I don't see anyone stopping us if we make our offense even better.

Let's say we beef up the O Line by signing a couple vets and drafting a couple. Then find the vet WR who will take a discount and draft a couple WR's. Draft an RB and sign one to give us a good rotation and depth. And try to add another TE on the cheap that can make plays could be the icing on the cake. Nobody is going to stop that offense. We might average 40 points a game. And I think it is attainable.

[bsp4444]

What, if any, compensatory picks would we be entitled to, based on who of these players we lose?

[MahiMike]

Watkins was our best WR throughout the playoffs. I’d like to see him back if he’s willing to restructure. Next, tag Jones and try to create some wiggle room for Breeland and Fuller. Veach will have to make some tough decisions, but I have faith in whatever he thinks is best.

Hardman is the new Watkins. And he won't disappear for most of the year.

[Chief Roundup]

Watkins was our best WR throughout the playoffs. I’d like to see him back if he’s willing to restructure. Next, tag Jones and try to create some wiggle room for Breeland and Fuller. Veach will have to make some tough decisions, but I have faith in whatever he thinks is best.

I don't think there is a restructure for Watkins. It would have to be a tear up the old and sign a new contract. One of the best ways to find wiggle room is to sign Jones long term not the tag.
Fuller made a play or 2 but he has not been as good as expected since we got him in the trade. His INT in the SB was probably the best play he has made in the last 2 years.

[HemiEd]

Sorry but that’s not happening. He wants 7-10 mil per year

I think he is worth it.

[YontsRBake]

Who are you putting in Fisher's spot? All of their losses this season happened with him on the sideline with injury. Undefeated with him in the lineup.

That has more to do with Cameron Erving being a terrible player than Fisher being a good one. I don't think replacing his very average production for far cheaper is as difficult as perceived in this thread, I think Ervings play this year has just traumatized our fanbase into thinking Fisher is the only way.

but if there aren't net saving with the dead money then it's not a realistic scenario.

[YontsRBake]

Is Corey Littleton out of our price range? He'd be a great fit in this scheme imo.

[Chargem]

Is Corey Littleton out of our price range? He'd be a great fit in this scheme imo.

Almost certainly yes, he's going to get $13-15m per average

[YontsRBake]

Almost certainly yes, he's going to get $13-15m per average

Damn didn't realize he was valued that high.

Nick Kwiatkowski is the other available ILB I think is a good scheme fit, id imagine he'd be far cheaper.

[dlphg9]

This thread is full of Ruhtard.

Pennel is better than Jones?
Players should take discounts because they're already making too much money?
Jones doesn't deserve to get paid because he didn't have any sacks?
Release Eric Fisher?
Trade Chris Jones?

That's all in the first few pages. I couldnt bring myself to read the rest of the retarded shit some of you say, because I'm not risking the brain cells I have left.

Shout out to Penbrook for acting like an expert in all things Chiefs and answering everyone's questions, because you read something on Twitter.

[xztop123]

keep jones and pennell

figure out a way to get all new linebackers except maybe keep hitch.

get rid of both defensive ends we signed last year (that were hurt during sb run)

o-line tweaks

i don’t mind keeping our current secondary intact (as long as the guy with torn acl recovers)

[milkshock]

Hardman is the new Watkins. And he won't disappear for most of the year.

we have seen very little evidence of that, frankly.

[Kidd Lex]

This thread is full of Ruhtard.

Pennel is better than Jones?
Players should take discounts because they're already making too much money?
Jones doesn't deserve to get paid because he didn't have any sacks?
Release Eric Fisher?
Trade Chris Jones?

That's all in the first few pages. I couldnt bring myself to read the rest of the retarded shit some of you say, because I'm not risking the brain cells I have left.

Shout out to Penbrook for acting like an expert in all things Chiefs and answering everyone's questions, because you read something on Twitter.

Only one I agree with in your list is trading CJ. Take a good look at our cap situation. Resigning him isn’t going to be easy, and when Mahomes becomes the highest paid QB remember this little tidbit - the teams with the highest paid QB have missed the playoffs 8 of the last 10 seasons. Hard decisions will have to be made to keep the team competitive. Job #1 should be protecting your $40 million dollar man.

Btw takes like this are weak. Call out damn near everyone in the thread, but dont have an original opinion of your own. Go on record, and tell us how you’d make it all work.

[wachashi]

If you believe the rumor that Chris Jones will be shopped via a tag/trade deal to NFC contenders then I see a few teams that could make sense. It's the off season and it's fun to speculate, so that's what I'm doing.

For reference, the Chiefs gave up about 240 points of draft capital (https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp?RequestTeam=det) for Frank Clark. Since Jones plays DT, I doubt there's a team out there willing to give up that much for him.

1. SEATTLE
- $50 million in cap space
- Top 2/3 team in the NFC
- Ranked 30th in sacks in 2019
- Tag/trade relationship between the organizations is already established
- Could trade their 2020 first round pick (27) at a valuation of 216 points. Could possibly get another future pick from them in this trade

2. DETROIT
- $45 million in cap space
- Tough year last year, but they have a QB and some offensive pieces
- Ranked 31st in sacks in 2019
- Matt Patricia is a defensive coach - he's going to look to upgrade that unit big time
- Could trade their 2020 second round pick (35) at a valuation of 170 points, then swap third rounders with KC and maybe get a future pick from them

3. PHILADELPHIA
- $40 million in cap space
- Contending playoff team
- Ranked 16th in sacks in 2019
- Fletcher Cox + Chris Jones would be a nightmare for QBs
- Organization staff very familiar with one another
- Could swap their first round pick (21) with KC's first rounder, give up their second (53) and a future pick

4. DALLAS
- $76 million in cap space
- Contending team with new staff
- Ranked 19th in sacks in 2019
- Might not have the cap flexibility their current space reflects though
- Could swap their first round pick (17) with KC's first rounder, give up their third (82) and a future pick

DRAFTEK TRADE VALUE CHART (https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp?RequestTeam=DAL)

[RunKC]

We could give Jones his $20 million/yr but it would be incredibly difficult to have any flexibility with our cap. That to me shows that they might have no choice then to tag and trade.

It’s hard to get that many decisions right consistently. It’s also extremely difficult having a $40 million QB with no flexibility.

And sure we could try to cut a bunch of mid paid guys like LDT, Erving and Sorenson, but then you run into a numbers game. You have to hit on a lot more moves than only replacing one player.

I love Chris Jones. We know this organization does to. But keeping him just doesn’t look like it’s in the cards.

[BWillie]

Trade Frank Clark, sign Chris Jones would be an unpopular opinion. I think Jones is much more valuable than Clark. You can find edge pass rushers, even well rounded ones. It's really hard to find a Chris Jones. We saw that when Chris Jones plays in a big game, he maintains his gap responsibilities and plays to win. It's true that he may play for stats a little bit in the regular season, but who can blame him? It's essentially a contract year. But in the Super Bowl Jones showed us that he can and will play disciplined if he needs to.

[DRM08]

Trade Frank Clark, sign Chris Jones would be an unpopular opinion. I think Jones is much more valuable than Clark. You can find edge pass rushers, even well rounded ones. It's really hard to find a Chris Jones. We saw that when Chris Jones plays in a big game, he maintains his gap responsibilities and plays to win. It's true that he may play for stats a little bit in the regular season, but who can blame him? It's essentially a contract year. But in the Super Bowl Jones showed us that he can and will play disciplined if he needs to.

Agree that Jones is more valuable, but I don't think anyone would trade for Clark at $20.8M per year. Chiefs are stuck with Frank.

[Kidd Lex]

Agree that Jones is more valuable, but I don't think anyone would trade for Clark at $20.8M per year. Chiefs are stuck with Frank.

Modern NFL seems to believe an edge rusher like Clark is more valuable than a DT like CJ. Looking at how Clark set the edge for our run D all season id tend to agree. Past Spags for Sutton, and HB in place for the shit 2018 safety’s, our biggest upgrade on D was arguably Clark over Ford. He sets the edge like a boss, and helps not the run and pass D equally.

Really a moot point either way, Clark is going to be here for years, no way we trade away a 25 year old edge stud, as the draft capital invested and dead dollars to move him make it near impossible and as I said, he’s a key player in our D.

CJ is likely to be a victim of the Mahomes extension. Hopefully we figure it out, but if not he will return a ton more than Ford did.

[duncan_idaho]

If you believe the rumor that Chris Jones will be shopped via a tag/trade deal to NFC contenders then I see a few teams that could make sense. It's the off season and it's fun to speculate, so that's what I'm doing.



For reference, the Chiefs gave up about 240 points of draft capital (https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp?RequestTeam=det) for Frank Clark. Since Jones plays DT, I doubt there's a team out there willing to give up that much for him.



1. SEATTLE

- $50 million in cap space

- Top 2/3 team in the NFC

- Ranked 30th in sacks in 2019

- Tag/trade relationship between the organizations is already established

- Could trade their 2020 first round pick (27) at a valuation of 216 points. Could possibly get another future pick from them in this trade



2. DETROIT

- $45 million in cap space

- Tough year last year, but they have a QB and some offensive pieces

- Ranked 31st in sacks in 2019

- Matt Patricia is a defensive coach - he's going to look to upgrade that unit big time

- Could trade their 2020 second round pick (35) at a valuation of 170 points, then swap third rounders with KC and maybe get a future pick from them



3. PHILADELPHIA

- $40 million in cap space

- Contending playoff team

- Ranked 16th in sacks in 2019

- Fletcher Cox + Chris Jones would be a nightmare for QBs

- Organization staff very familiar with one another

- Could swap their first round pick (21) with KC's first rounder, give up their second (53) and a future pick



4. DALLAS

- $76 million in cap space

- Contending team with new staff

- Ranked 19th in sacks in 2019

- Might not have the cap flexibility their current space reflects though

- Could swap their first round pick (17) with KC's first rounder, give up their third (82) and a future pick



DRAFTEK TRADE VALUE CHART (https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp?RequestTeam=DAL)


This is well-reasoned, but I also could see Jones being perceived as having the same or even slightly more value than Clark since the excellent pressure from DT is more rare to find.

[smithandrew051]

Seattle seems like the most likely.

If they trade Jones to swap first round picks with someone outside of the top 10 and pick up another mid round pick, then we’re getting ripped off. That would be a steal for any of those teams.

[wachashi]

Seattle seems like the most likely.

If they trade Jones to swap first round picks with someone outside of the top 10 and pick up another mid round pick, then we’re getting ripped off. That would be a steal for any of those teams.

Seattle seems like they’re in the best position to make a fair offer for both orgs. Detroit could play around and come up with some appealing offers as well due to their draft position.

[Walt White]

If Chris Jones is the difference between a championship or not, you have to do what it takes. Either way though. Maybe some think he could cost us one by killing our depth.

If it is a matter of ripping the band-aid off, I would kind of rather trade him now as much as I'd love to keep him. If we truly have a plan where we can keep him and keep the depth of the team strong while Pat gets his extension over the next couple years, then great. But I suppose we could still at least prolong it one more year if we tag him right?

I wonder if it's a matter of Chris Jones contract being more of a problem in the future that we could worry about it later. If we sign him, couldn't we trade him in the future if need be? Or is the worry that it would be hard to move that contract? I'd figure teams would still be clamoring for him. I suppose this is still probably the peak of his value after a Super Bowl win and being younger.