LNBS: Trading Watkins more likely than we think?

[staylor26]

It is more likely than not that Green, Sanders, Cooper, and maybe even Anderson re-sign with their current teams.

If that’s that case, this FA WR class is absolute dog shit. There should absolutely be a market for a 26 year old guy that just had a great postseason.

I have to admit, I didn’t think it was possible before, but after looking at the WR’s after those guys, you have to think we can at least get a 4th for him. Maybe even a late 3rd.

Like somebody brought up in another thread, the WR class in this years draft is phenomenal, but not everybody is going to want to depend on a rookie to win now. Trading for Watkins and adding one of these young WR’s makes sense for a few teams.

[BossChief]

.Draft class is deep, but veteran WR class is weak.

Sammy is on a 1 year 14m with nothing guaranteed to whoever trades for him.

Also, trading for him gives the team that trades for him lots of options due to Sammys age and skill set.

1) They can re-sign him to lower his cap hit and have his prime years under contract.

2) They can play him for a year and let him hit the biggest $$$ free agent class in history next offseason...getting them a nice comp pick in return for letting him walk.

3) They can play him for a year on a cost controlled 1 year deal and then franchise him and trade him after that, possibly.

[Megatron96]

I'm hearing/reading different opinions on whether we can get a 3rd or even a 4th for Sammy.

Regardless, my gut feeling is that Sammy won't be a Chief in 2020, though I'd much rather we kept him. I think we're going to find that Watkins was more integral to the offense's overall success than just what we saw in the stat sheet. And worse, as noted above, the veteran WRs that'll be available this year isn't great. I would say that Sammy is better than most of them.

But he's overpaid as a third option, period. Maybe his contract can be restructured and maybe he takes a significant pay-cut and we keep him, but I don't think that's what's going to happen.

If we do have to let him go, I think he's worth at least a lower-middle 3rd to a mid-4th.

[Rasputin]

Mecole Hardman is going be starting as 2nd WR but it would be nice keep Watkins for his one or two first downs he makes a game.

He is a gamer

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

McShay said he has 20 WRs with a first round grade this year.... 20!!

[Simply Red]

unfortunately that's a very fair outlook, OP - I will miss him, should we lose him. He's a hell of a player.

[staylor26]

Just to give you guys an idea of how bad this FA WR class is going to be, Breshad Perriman is by far the best of the bunch.

[Megatron96]

Just to give you guys an idea of how bad this FA WR class is going to be, Breshad Perriman is by far the best of the bunch.

That's what I saw a day ago. It looked like a desert out there for WRs. My initial thought was we have to find a way to keep Watkins just so we don't end up with one of those guys.

[Rasputin]

unfortunately that's a very fair outlook, OP - I will miss him, should we lose him. He's a hell of a player.

I'll miss him as far as Mahomes can throw to Mecole Hardman and I mean I won't be missing him that much.

[Megatron96]

I'll miss him as far as Mahomes can throw to Mecole Hardman and I mean I won't be missing him that much.

I have a feeling this post isn't going to age very well . . .

[staylor26]

That's what I saw a day ago. It looked like a desert out there for WRs. My initial thought was we have to find a way to keep Watkins just so we don't end up with one of those guys.

I’d love to keep Watkins too, but the truth is he’s probably gone. If it means we get to keep Jones and get a 3rd/4th, I’ll take it.

Draft a WR and sign somebody like Albert Wilson, Phillip Dorsett, or Paul Richardson.

[BossChief]

If Sammy provides similar impact from weeks 2-17 as he did in week 1 and the 3 playoff games, we would be talking about keeping him at any cost.

The problem/risk is that he had far more production in those 4 games than the other games combined.

And he didn’t exactly seem motivated to get back to work after the game.

I’d much rather get a third or fourth for him (or even less) because we just can’t keep him.

[BossChief]

I’d love to keep Watkins too, but the truth is he’s probably gone. If it means we get to keep Jones and get a 3rd/4th, I’ll take it.

Draft a WR and sign somebody like Albert Wilson, Phillip Dorsey, or Paul Richardson.

Albert Wilson and a WR in the third would be my preference.

A combo of CB and LB in the first 2 picks.

[Chiefs4TheWin]

I hope he would take a cut. Despite his unavailability, he gives a shit more than any player I've seen with YAC in a long while.

Either way it's all good.

[Megatron96]

I’d love to keep Watkins too, but the truth is he’s probably gone. If it means we get to keep Jones, I’ll take it.

Agreed. Jones is/should be the priority over Sammy. As I said earlier, Sammy is just too expensive as a third option. But the lack of quality veteran WR talent in FA, and the lack of veteran presence on the team is a concern. Or more precisely will be this season.

I'm not as worried about it as I would've been a year or two ago, as I really think Veach and Andy will find an answer, but I won't feel good about it until we see what they come up with.

[staylor26]

Albert Wilson and a WR in the third would be my preference.

A combo of CB and LB in the first 2 picks.

Hill
Hardman
Pringle
Wilson
Peoples-Jones
Kemp/Dieter/UDFA

Not a bad group at all.

[Rasputin]

Hill
Hardman
Pringle
Wilson
Peoples-Jones
Kemp/Dieter/UDFA

Not a bad group at all.

I'm hoping Pringle makes a name for himself with kick returns. He is fast as fuck and good gunner I think it sucked when he got hurt and missed opportunity to gain favor with the coaches.

[RealSNR]

There are far more stupid GMs in this league than people think.

Some team will trade for Watkins.

[Rasputin]

I have a feeling this post isn't going to age very well . . .

Mecole Hardman > Sammy Watkins

[Megatron96]

Mecole Hardman > Sammy Watkins

No, not yet, not by a long shot. Someday hopefully. My feeling is in about four years.

[Rasputin]

No, not yet, not by a long shot. Someday hopefully. My feeling is in about four years.

Hardman is going be our number two guy and will have more touchdowns and receptions than Sammy Watkins going forward.

[Megatron96]

Hardman is going be our number two guy and will have more touchdowns and receptions than Sammy Watkins going forward.

He's probably going to get the opportunity, and I hope along with everyone else that he exceeds my expectations. But he's not going to be a better, more polished receiver than Sammy for some time, that much is obvious. He has a lot to learn in a short time. Hopefully he makes great strides this off-season. Because we're going to need him to be a lot more than just fast in the near future.

[Rasputin]

He's probably going to get the opportunity, and I hope along with everyone else that he exceeds my expectations. But he's not going to be a better, more polished receiver than Sammy for some time, that much is obvious. He has a lot to learn in a short time. Hopefully he makes great strides this off-season. Because we're going to need him to be a lot more than just fast in the near future.

He was our first round draft pick and he has more yards per catch than Watkins

Mecole Hardman

2019 SEASON STATS
REC
26
YDS
538
TD
6
20.7AVG

Sammy Watkins

52
Tied-61st
YDS
673
55th
TD
3
Tied-73rd
AVG
12.9

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Watkins alone is worth the money if he continues to ball out every single playoff game

[Rasputin]

Hardman is going be better next season than Watkins so Watkins is dispensable

[Megatron96]

He was our first round draft pick and he has more yards per catch than Watkins

Mecole Hardman

2019 SEASON STATS
REC
26
YDS
538
TD
6
20.7AVG

Sammy Watkins

52
Tied-61st
YDS
673
55th
TD
3
Tied-73rd
AVG
12.9

Everyone knows he was our first pick. We all watched the same draft. And everyone knows that he averaged about 20 yards/catch. Again we all watched the games and heard the commentators say the same thing.

Being a first round pick and averaging 20 yards/catch means very little in terms of being a competent WR2. What did Hill average last season? 14 yards/catch? Does that make Hardman a better receiver than Tyreek? Michael Thomas averaged less than 12 yards/reception; are you trying to imply that Hardman is twice as good as Thomas? Kenny Golladay averaged 18 yards/catch and finished with 11 TDs; is he better or worse than Hardman?

Whether Hardman is a better WR isn't about yards/catch or TDs, it's about how he runs his route tree, how efficiently he gets off the LoS, how he sets up defenders, footwork, how efficiently he separates from defenders.

How well he reads defenses and coverages; how well he makes adjustments based on what he sees and understands as well as his understanding of what his QB is seeing and reading.

That might be the most important skill he's going to have to learn shortly, because so much of Mahomes' game is literally out of the box. He's going to have to think like Mahomes.

And we haven't even gotten to things like his proprioception, catch radius, ability to focus and make catches under duress or in the biggest moments, etc.

Much less his football situational IQ . . . blocking skills . . . ball skills and mechanics . . .

Right now Hardman is below average in many of these areas because he only started playing receiver about two years ago. To be a legitimate WR2 he's going to need to improve/learn a lot in a short time in all of those areas. But he's very fast and he has better than average hands, so there's a lot to be positive about.

But the best teacher of many of these elements is simply experience. Which Hardman doesn't have. And won't have until he just gets the requisite number of in-game snaps. Like around 1,000. Maybe 1,500.

So you go ahead and pat yourself on the head over Hardman's stats. I'm going to be watching to see how fast he learns to be a real receiver, and not just some fast JAG.

[Rasputin]

Everyone knows he was our first pick. We all watched the same draft. And everyone knows that he averaged about 20 yards/catch. Again we all watched the games and heard the commentators say the same thing.

Being a first round pick and averaging 20 yards/catch means very little in terms of being a competent WR2. What did Hill average last season? 14 yards/catch? Does that make Hardman a better receiver than Tyreek? Michael Thomas averaged less than 12 yards/reception; are you trying to imply that Hardman is twice as good as Thomas? Kenny Golladay averaged 18 yards/catch and finished with 11 TDs; is he better or worse than Hardman?

Whether Hardman is a better WR isn't about yards/catch or TDs, it's about how he runs his route tree, how efficiently he gets off the LoS, how he sets up defenders, footwork, how efficiently he separates from defenders.

How well he reads defenses and coverages; how well he makes adjustments based on what he sees and understands as well as his understanding of what his QB is seeing and reading.

That might be the most important skill he's going to have to learn shortly, because so much of Mahomes' game is literally out of the box. He's going to have to think like Mahomes.

And we haven't even gotten to things like his proprioception, catch radius, ability to focus and make catches under duress or in the biggest moments, etc.

Much less his football situational IQ . . . blocking skills . . . ball skills and mechanics . . .

Right now Hardman is below average in many of these areas because he only started playing receiver about two years ago. To be a legitimate WR2 he's going to need to improve/learn a lot in a short time in all of those areas. But he's very fast and he has better than average hands, so there's a lot to be positive about.

But the best teacher of many of these elements is simply experience. Which Hardman doesn't have. And won't have until he just gets the requisite number of in-game snaps. Like around 1,000. Maybe 1,500.

So you go ahead and pat yourself on the head over Hardman's stats. I'm going to be watching to see how fast he learns to be a real receiver, and not just some fast JAG.

I trust in Veach to look at him to be our future as our #2 WR with Tyreek as #1 that's why he drafted him Watkins is dispensable and what ever team Watkins plays for Chiefs or other Mecole Hardman will have a better season.

The only reason to think otherwise is depending on how much Chiefs want to utilize Hardman in the return game but probably still he is going focus on his route running as the number 2 receiver for Mahomes.


I'm picking Pringle to be our kick returner to give Mecole the time to develop his route running.

[Megatron96]

I trust in Veach to look at him to be our future as our #2 WR with Tyreek as #1 that's why he drafted him Watkins is dispensable and what ever team Watkins plays for Chiefs or other Mecole Hardman will have a better season.

The only reason to think otherwise is depending on how much Chiefs want to utilize Hardman in the return game but probably still he is going focus on his route running as the number 2 receiver for Mahomes.


I'm picking Pringle to be our kick returner to give Mecole the time to develop his route running.

Uh huh, that's about what I thought.

[Rasputin]

Uh huh, that's about what I thought.

Watkins started out with a hatrick and everyone thought he was going kick ass all season but fuck he pretty much disappeared much of the season as he'd get a first down here or there but the touchdowns where the fuck were they? Tyreek was consistant except the weeks he was hurt but Mecole really stepped it up in the return game and still managed to get more touchdowns than Watkins as a receiver.


You are entitled to your opinion but the reality is Watkins is a pawn and expendable and Mecole Hardman is a Bishop way more valuable.

[Couch-Potato]

I would love for us to keep both Jones and Watkins, and it does sound like Watkins is willing to work out a deal to keep him here. Watkins is our Possession Reciever, and damn good at it. Keep him.

[MahomesMagic]

Watkins alone is worth the money if he continues to ball out every single playoff game

Mecole is not ready to take Watkins spot yet.

[RunKC]

Hardman had as many TD’s in one year as Watkins had in his 2 years here.

Think about that. Kid isn’t a great route runner yet and as a rookie behind Hill, Kelce, Williams, Sammy and Robinson as receiving options, he had 6 TD’s.

He’ll be ready to start. Players take a big leap from year 1 to year 2.

[Rasputin]

Mecole is not ready to take Watkins spot yet.



Some here have Watkins way over rated and the same people under rate Mecole Hardman.


Tyreek Hill and Mecole Hardman are going be the dynamic duo on the field they are going be impossible to stop. Mecole was drafted by Veach to be on the field at the same time as Tyreek Hill and they will be the Dynamic Duo and impossible to stop especially with Travis Kelce. Veach has a vision and he is building a dynasty here. Mecole is more valuable with his rookie contract to be on the field taking reps and moving forward without Watkins.

[Rasputin]

Mecole is not ready to take Watkins spot yet.

How the fuck do you know this?


You don't.

[Kman34]

I think it’s known in NFL circles that we can save a bunch of cap money if we cut Sammy... Why would someone trade for him if this is true? I know he could restructure his contract with us but I just don’t think that’s happening due to his playoff and SB performance.....

[scho63]

If Sammy provides similar impact from weeks 2-17 as he did in week 1 and the 3 playoff games, we would be talking about keeping him at any cost.

The problem/risk is that he had far more production in those 4 games than the other games combined.

And he didn’t exactly seem motivated to get back to work after the game.

I’d much rather get a third or fourth for him (or even less) because we just can’t keep him.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

ZERO TD's from week 2 through 17. He had a lot of drops and was NOT a #2 until the playoffs.

While that sounds good in theory that he was there for the most important part of our season, he should have had a much better regular season.

[MahiMike]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

ZERO TD's from week 2 through 17. He had a lot of drops and was NOT a #2 until the playoffs.

While that sounds good in theory that he was there for the most important part of our season, he should have had a much better regular season.

That's the rub w/Sammy. He disappears for long stretches of the season. I'd be ok w/picking up another WR in his spot. I can see Andy and Brett getting rookie WR's ea year and rotating them in like Andy used to do QB's.

[saphojunkie]

I’d love to keep Watkins too, but the truth is he’s probably gone. If it means we get to keep Jones and get a 3rd/4th, I’ll take it.

Draft a WR and sign somebody like Albert Wilson, Phillip Dorsett, or Paul Richardson.

Especially since this class seems loaded with WR. You aren't really drafting to replace Sammy, you're drafting to replace Robinson and Mecole, who moves into Sammy's spot.

I like the Phillip Dorsett idea a lot. Let Hardman spend all offseason becoming the route runner he should be and Dorsett can take over those big opportunistic plays that Mecole feasted on this year.

[saphojunkie]

Agreed. Jones is/should be the priority over Sammy. As I said earlier, Sammy is just too expensive as a third option. But the lack of quality veteran WR talent in FA, and the lack of veteran presence on the team is a concern. Or more precisely will be this season.

I'm not as worried about it as I would've been a year or two ago, as I really think Veach and Andy will find an answer, but I won't feel good about it until we see what they come up with.

I've been pretty vocal about supporting a trade with Jones, but you're absolutely right. If it's a choice between him and Sammy, I'm going Jones 100 times out of 100.

I do appreciate Watkins, though, especially how he blocks and runs his routes hard when he is not the target. Hopefully, Mahomes improvisation hammers it into every wideout's brain that you are NEVER just a decoy. You might be the guy who catches a 50 yard bomb on a scramble drill, so stay engaged.

[Cosmos]

He’s got the best QB in the game throwing him the ball....a huge contract....and still his lack of motivation at times is crystal clear.

It’s a 16 game season + playoffs. His 4-5 game seasonal efforts is a shame.

Tape don’t lie....he’d be great if he showed out EVERY week.

[The Franchise]

I think it’s known in NFL circles that we can save a bunch of cap money if we cut Sammy... Why would someone trade for him if this is true? I know he could restructure his contract with us but I just don’t think that’s happening due to his playoff and SB performance.....

Because if you wait for the Chiefs to cut Watkins....then you’re bidding against all of the other teams that want him. And you’re also going to have to probably over pay to get him. If you trade for him....it costs a pick....but you’re also bringing him in at $14 million.....and none of that is guaranteed money. So you could trade for him and then work on a new deal with him on your own.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hardman will explode next year FYI

[BossChief]

Hardman will explode next year FYI

He’s working with Tyreeks trainer this offseason on his explosion in and out of cuts and precision route running. I honestly think he’s going to be Desean Jackson/Chad Johnson by mid year this season and for the next 7 years.

Imo his biggest weakness is getting off press. That’s a huge reason he didn’t have a lot of catches but made a lot of big plays. He got eliminated from a lot of plays at the LOS, but as Pat bought time, he got open for big chunks. If he comes out and shows the ability to get off press, he’s going to explode in this offense.

[BossChief]

Because if you wait for the Chiefs to cut Watkins....then you’re bidding against all of the other teams that want him. And you’re also going to have to probably over pay to get him. If you trade for him....it costs a pick....but you’re also bringing him in at $14 million.....and none of that is guaranteed money. So you could trade for him and then work on a new deal with him on your own.

And if you can’t work a deal you get your pick back as a comp pick the following year.

Next offseason is going to be the biggest FA period this sport has ever seen.

Lots of the old guard QBs will be retired....huge amounts of cap space for everyone....lots of teams wanting veteran WRs to help their young QBs.

A guy like Sammy will get stupid $ in that situation.

[Megatron96]

How the **** do you know this?


You don't.

How the **** do you know he's not right? Oh yeah, you don't. And your lack of understanding the technical aspects of the WR position isn't helping your argument.

[Megatron96]

He’s working with Tyreeks trainer this offseason on his explosion in and out of cuts and precision route running. I honestly think he’s going to be Desean Jackson/Chad Johnson by mid year this season and for the next 7 years.

Probably not this year. Maybe in two or three.

Imo his biggest weakness is getting off press. That’s a huge reason he didn’t have a lot of catches but made a lot of big plays. He got eliminated from a lot of plays at the LOS, but as Pat bought time, he got open for big chunks. If he comes out and shows the ability to get off press, he’s going to explode in this offense.

His other problem, at least in this offense, is that he doesn't have any feel for where to go when the play breaks down. He recognized it pretty quickly towards the end of the season, and even began breaking off his routes and running hard for an open space, or what he believed was an open space, but most times he wasn't running to the right areas.

His field awareness needs a lot of work. Among about a half a dozen other things, but we're talking about this for now.

It looked like he was coached to break off the route and run vertically, which makes sense in that he's usually running a deeper route anyway, and of course his speed gives him an undeniable edge if he runs vertically. However, he still doesn't understand his relationship to the defense/defender, and where to run to give his QB the best opportunity to get him the ball. The short version of this is that he doesn't understand how to run himself open efficiently. Yet.

This isn't an issue, it's just inexperience at this point. I have high hopes that he will improve in these areas, but it took Tyreek about three years to learn to be good at this sort of thing. I don't see anything about Hardman's evolution that tells me he's going to pick it up any faster.

On a different note, I want to see video evidence of Watkins taking games off. Because I've watched a lot of game replays this season multiple times and I can't find one. Never mind the fact that he was injured for two games, or that he had Matt Moore as his QB for three games.

[old_geezer]

Hardman will explode next year FYI

That means we'll need to replace him too. :(

[Megatron96]

That means we'll need to replace him too. :(

Hardman is on his rookie contract. He's not going to need to be paid/moved for at least 4 years, IIRC.


Sorry, he's expected to be a UFA in 2023.

[old_geezer]

Hardman is on his rookie contract. He's not going to need to be paid/moved for at least 4 years, IIRC.


Sorry, he's expected to be a UFA in 2023.

Either you missed my attempt at humor or I'm lousy at it. I was referring to Hardman "exploding". :huh:

[Megatron96]

Either you missed my attempt at humor or I'm lousy at it. I was referring to Hardman "exploding". :huh:

Ah, gotcha. Sorry. I'm locked in "literal" mode right now. I'll flip to normal humor level now.

[Rasputin]

How the **** do you know he's not right? Oh yeah, you don't. And your lack of understanding the technical aspects of the WR position isn't helping your argument.

I don't need to argue anything you're right. Their play will prove it next season and I'm saying Mecole Hardman will have the better year barring injury.

[Megatron96]

I don't need to argue anything you're right. Their play will prove it next season and I'm saying Mecole Hardman will have the better year barring injury.

Their play. Do you have any idea what constitutes professional Wide Receiver 'play' in the NFL? Please enlighten us; what exactly is competent WR play so far as you can describe it?

[Nickhead]

watkins will agree to be paid less then tyreek, and ball out for two years :thumb:

(bookmark it :D )

[Rasputin]

Their play. Do you have any idea what constitutes professional Wide Receiver 'play' in the NFL? Please enlighten us; what exactly is competent WR play so far as you can describe it?

Mecole was a rookie and had more yards per catch and more touchdowns than Sammy Watkins while doing kick return duty. He is competitive kid and ignited a comeback from behind 24 points with an 80 yard kick return that propelled the comeback. I don't know what your definition of competent is but the kid is going be fun to watch for years to come on same field as Tyreek Hill being Robin to Batman.

I also value Brtett Veach picking this kid second round our first of the draft 56th overall to be our #2 WR.

Furthermore you dont just randomly get the Mac Lee Hill rookie of the year without having a competitive fortitude. That makes him competent in the view of our owner GM and coaches and players and me as a fan.


⁰

[kccrow]

Unless teams are absolutely convinced KC will cut him, I'd say to a team like Green Bay for at least a 4th and a 6th is minimum in my thoughts. Fuck, Emmanuel Sanders and a 5th gathered a 3rd and 4th last year at 31. There's a certain value to a veteran guy that can come in and know what to do and pick up an offense over a rookie. You also know what you're getting. Watkins misses a few games a year, but overall he's a guy that makes plays on the field and is consistently good, and he's only 26.

As for talking about Hardman and his 20.whatever per catch... When you have two talented receivers in Watkins and Hill, plus Kelce on the field, that opens things up alot for a #3. Hardman has speed, but so did Watkins and Hill. It's going to be a shitload harder working as the #2 to maintain that level of production when you no longer have a nickel covering you and you're not the 4th option on the field for the defense to consider.

[Rasputin]

Unless teams are absolutely convinced KC will cut him, I'd say to a team like Green Bay for at least a 4th and a 6th is minimum in my thoughts. Fuck, Emmanuel Sanders and a 5th gathered a 3rd and 4th last year at 31. There's a certain value to a veteran guy that can come in and know what to do and pick up an offense over a rookie. You also know what you're getting. Watkins misses a few games a year, but overall he's a guy that makes plays on the field and is consistently good, and he's only 26.

As for talking about Hardman and his 20.whatever per catch... When you have two talented receivers in Watkins and Hill, plus Kelce on the field, that opens things up alot for a #3. Hardman has speed, but so did Watkins and Hill. It's going to be a shitload harder working as the #2 to maintain that level of production when you no longer have a nickel covering you and you're not the 4th option on the field for the defense to consider.

These are valid points but that doesn't mean Hardman can't or wont take over and be successful as our #2 WR. He was basically drafted to take that spot on the roster. I have ever bit confidence in Hardman to do so but the good thing is it's nice to have them battle it out if Watkins stays or we can get something for him if he gets traded. I think we will take a flyer on a speedy WR in later rounds hopefully someone who can take punt and kick returns.



Mecole Hardman is going tear it up and be a nice complement to Tyreek Hill this season just watch.

[oldman]

That's the rub w/Sammy. He disappears for long stretches of the season. I'd be ok w/picking up another WR in his spot. I can see Andy and Brett getting rookie WR's ea year and rotating them in like Andy used to do QB's.

I'm in this camp. Except for Week 1 and the playoffs, Sammy didn't earn his money and $14M could pay for a G and LB, not to mention giving some kind of extra cash to give Jones..

[Scooter LaCanforno]

Both Chicago and Philly are hurting for WR and need to win now. Watkins would be a perfect fit to their systems and a drafted WR might take a while to learn their offense. See if they can get in a bidding war for him.

[SuperBowl4]

Get rid of SW any way they can. Thanks for the memories.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I'm in this camp. Except for Week 1 and the playoffs, Sammy didn't earn his money and $14M could pay for a G and LB, not to mention giving some kind of extra cash to give Jones..

He earned his 14 mil in the playoffs. That 14 mil gave us a super bowl. Without Watkins on this team we don’t win the game. Hell without Chris Jones as well we don’t win that game. Two key pieces that we need to keep

[Chief Northman]

None of these questions get answered until the Players Association quit dragging their asses and votes on the CBA proposal.

[SuperBowl4]

He earned his 14 mil in the playoffs. That 14 mil gave us a super bowl. Without Watkins on this team we don’t win the game. Hell without Chris Jones as well we don’t win that game. Two key pieces that we need to keepJones yes, Watkins NO The CHIEFS got the best out of Sammy and now its time for MeCole to shine!

[RealSNR]

The opinions on Watkins tradeability range from "The draft class is too good and he's too expensive, so he's worthless! Just cut him!" all the way to "He's the only legit real veteran WR option available to teams, and teams can significantly reduce that cap hit through an extension. There could be a bidding war happening in which we get a 3rd or more."

I tend to side with the more optimistic view of his trade value, but let's just assume it's the opposite, and teams think, "Why would we pay draft picks in a deep WR class like this?"

Well, Veach seems to like player-for-player trades. So here's a random scenario I thought up:

The Chiefs trade Watkins to Green Bay for CB Josh Jackson

Green Bay's non-Adams WRs all suck donkey dick, and most of them are free agents except for St. Brown (off of IR the year before) and Valdes-Scantling. These are great WRs in the draft, but they don't have time to wait for an entire draft class of rookies to develop. They need help right now. And as strong as the WR draft class is, it's just as weak in free agency.

So in this scenario, they're the only ones who put up much of an offer to Veach. They offer a 5th round pick, but Veach asks, "What about Josh Jackson over there. You guys didn't use him at all last year. Since you're not using him, we'll take him."

Jackson doesn't seem to be much of the press corner that Pettine wants him to be if he's playing on the outside. I think they want to use his route reading skills as a nickel, but he barely saw the field this year, even in dime. And even when he played, he was pretty poor compared to his rookie season.

Spags and Merritt clearly could find use for a player like this, even playing a little deep safety. A predominantly slot corner who dabbles at safety... sounds like an ideal Fuller replacement to me...

Poor production is poor production, so I'm not saying Jackson would be an instant success or even a success at all. But I'd like to think we could find a use for him as depth, and if Watkins is just going to be cut anyway, wouldn't you rather see the Chiefs recoup a player with some potential out of it just like we did with Charvarious Ward and Emmanuel Ogbah (even though his run with us was short).

I also remember negative nancys around here cawing about how Alex Smith had zero trade value-- too expensive, too old, etc. I think there's typically a market that eventually shows up for a player, and a deal like this is probably the MINIMUM we could get back, which... I mean, it's better than outright cutting him, wouldn't you say?

[kccrow]

Not a bad idea at all SNR.

[The Franchise]

The opinions on Watkins tradeability range from "The draft class is too good and he's too expensive, so he's worthless! Just cut him!" all the way to "He's the only legit real veteran WR option available to teams, and teams can significantly reduce that cap hit through an extension. There could be a bidding war happening in which we get a 3rd or more."

I tend to side with the more optimistic view of his trade value, but let's just assume it's the opposite, and teams think, "Why would we pay draft picks in a deep WR class like this?"

Well, Veach seems to like player-for-player trades. So here's a random scenario I thought up:

The Chiefs trade Watkins to Green Bay for CB Josh Jackson

Green Bay's non-Adams WRs all suck donkey dick, and most of them are free agents except for St. Brown (off of IR the year before) and Valdes-Scantling. These are great WRs in the draft, but they don't have time to wait for an entire draft class of rookies to develop. They need help right now. And as strong as the WR draft class is, it's just as weak in free agency.

So in this scenario, they're the only ones who put up much of an offer to Veach. They offer a 5th round pick, but Veach asks, "What about Josh Jackson over there. You guys didn't use him at all last year. Since you're not using him, we'll take him."

Jackson doesn't seem to be much of the press corner that Pettine wants him to be if he's playing on the outside. I think they want to use his route reading skills as a nickel, but he barely saw the field this year, even in dime. And even when he played, he was pretty poor compared to his rookie season.

Spags and Merritt clearly could find use for a player like this, even playing a little deep safety. A predominantly slot corner who dabbles at safety... sounds like an ideal Fuller replacement to me...

Poor production is poor production, so I'm not saying Jackson would be an instant success or even a success at all. But I'd like to think we could find a use for him as depth, and if Watkins is just going to be cut anyway, wouldn't you rather see the Chiefs recoup a player with some potential out of it just like we did with Charvarious Ward and Emmanuel Ogbah (even though his run with us was short).

I also remember negative nancys around here cawing about how Alex Smith had zero trade value-- too expensive, too old, etc. I think there's typically a market that eventually shows up for a player, and a deal like this is probably the MINIMUM we could get back, which... I mean, it's better than outright cutting him, wouldn't you say?

That was my thought a couple of weeks ago when it was basically said that Watkins wasn’t taking a pay cut. I’d love to trade Watkins for Jackson.

[O.city]

I guess, but I don't really think Jackson is that good. Just give me a 4th or 5th round pick.

[RealSNR]

I guess, but I don't really think Jackson is that good. Just give me a 4th or 5th round pick.

Veach kind of likes taking chances on young guys who aren't working out with the teams that drafted them. He spent a 4th round pick on Reggie Ragland (yes, that was him, not Dorsey) and a 5th round pick on Darron Lee. He traded for Martinas Rankin from the Texans, who was kind of viewed as done in Houston when he had a poor preseason.

Jackson had a rough 2019, no doubt. But Veach has shown in the past that he just views those kinds of situations as bringing down the cost of the player because he trusts his own scouting and pro personnel judgement. We heard all about how apparently the Chiefs were huge on Kendall Fuller in his draft year and got beaten to the punch by Washington. I have no clue if he thinks the same of Jackson, but if he is going to trade Watkins away for another player, it's probably going to be a guy he really liked in a particular draft class that the Chiefs just missed the chance to draft.

[kccrow]

Trade Watkins to Green Bay for Jackson and LDT to Miami for Tankersley (former 3rd rounder that played well as a rookie, misused in 2018 before he tore his ACL in November, then spent a good portion of 2019 trying to come back from it) and a 5th. Cap issue improved. CB situation has bodies at least.

[RealSNR]

Trade Watkins to Green Bay for Jackson and LDT to Miami for Tankersley (former 3rd rounder that played well as a rookie, misused in 2018 before he tore his ACL in November, then spent a good portion of 2019 trying to come back from it) and a 5th. Cap issue improved. CB situation has bodies at least.

Would also be down with that. There are any number of teams/players who would fit in this trade scenario, and if the Chiefs can't reduce Sammy's 2020 salary or get a decent draft pick out of him, I think they'll find a way to improve depth at other positions.

[scho63]

I wish D Rob had stepped up more this season but he also fell well short of my expectations. When he gets the ball he is strong and hard to bring down but he has way too many missed including 3 in one playoff game.

[Wallcrawler]

I wish D Rob had stepped up more this season but he also fell well short of my expectations. When he gets the ball he is strong and hard to bring down but he has way too many missed including 3 in one playoff game.

His disappearing act in the postseason was brutal. The divisional game sealed his fate with those nauseating wide open drops.

[ChiefoftheKeyboard]

The opinions on Watkins tradeability range from "The draft class is too good and he's too expensive, so he's worthless! Just cut him!" all the way to "He's the only legit real veteran WR option available to teams, and teams can significantly reduce that cap hit through an extension. There could be a bidding war happening in which we get a 3rd or more."

I tend to side with the more optimistic view of his trade value, but let's just assume it's the opposite, and teams think, "Why would we pay draft picks in a deep WR class like this?"

Well, Veach seems to like player-for-player trades. So here's a random scenario I thought up:

The Chiefs trade Watkins to Green Bay for CB Josh Jackson

Green Bay's non-Adams WRs all suck donkey dick, and most of them are free agents except for St. Brown (off of IR the year before) and Valdes-Scantling. These are great WRs in the draft, but they don't have time to wait for an entire draft class of rookies to develop. They need help right now. And as strong as the WR draft class is, it's just as weak in free agency.

So in this scenario, they're the only ones who put up much of an offer to Veach. They offer a 5th round pick, but Veach asks, "What about Josh Jackson over there. You guys didn't use him at all last year. Since you're not using him, we'll take him."

Jackson doesn't seem to be much of the press corner that Pettine wants him to be if he's playing on the outside. I think they want to use his route reading skills as a nickel, but he barely saw the field this year, even in dime. And even when he played, he was pretty poor compared to his rookie season.

Spags and Merritt clearly could find use for a player like this, even playing a little deep safety. A predominantly slot corner who dabbles at safety... sounds like an ideal Fuller replacement to me...

Poor production is poor production, so I'm not saying Jackson would be an instant success or even a success at all. But I'd like to think we could find a use for him as depth, and if Watkins is just going to be cut anyway, wouldn't you rather see the Chiefs recoup a player with some potential out of it just like we did with Charvarious Ward and Emmanuel Ogbah (even though his run with us was short).

I also remember negative nancys around here cawing about how Alex Smith had zero trade value-- too expensive, too old, etc. I think there's typically a market that eventually shows up for a player, and a deal like this is probably the MINIMUM we could get back, which... I mean, it's better than outright cutting him, wouldn't you say?
I agree with this 100%. Josh Jackson is the guy I hope we get, because either way I think veach will use this to acquire the next guy in the mold of a erving/ragland/lee type of trade. And I think Jackson could use a change of scenery.

[Toad]

Hardman had as many TD’s in one year as Watkins had in his 2 years here.

Think about that. Kid isn’t a great route runner yet and as a rookie behind Hill, Kelce, Williams, Sammy and Robinson as receiving options, he had 6 TD’s.

He’ll be ready to start. Players take a big leap from year 1 to year 2.

That is a good way to look at it. Hardman produced fairly well despite being the #4-5th option. Hell, even if Sammy (and even Robinson) are gone, he would still only be the #3-4 option while he continues to progress.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">👀👀👀🤯🤯🤯🤫🤫🤫😎😎😎 <a href="https://t.co/C2SKa0xoX2">https://t.co/C2SKa0xoX2</a></p>&mdash; King me (@sammywatkins) <a href="https://twitter.com/sammywatkins/status/1234539039719645186?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[scho63]

His disappearing act in the postseason was brutal. The divisional game sealed his fate with those nauseating wide open drops.

Sadly this is 100% true. :(

[Megatron96]

His disappearing act in the postseason was brutal. The divisional game sealed his fate with those nauseating wide open drops.

In DRob's defense, two of those drops were due in large part to Pat throwing a badly placed pass. One was about head high and about a foot and a half behind him. That'd be a really tough catch for Jerry Rice.