Gale Sayers - Extremely over rated?

[dlphg9]

So as I was in the middle of doing some research for a post I went down a rabbit hole and eventually found myself looking at Gale Sayers stats. I may be completely off base here, because admittedly I have never watched any Gale Sayers highlights and am basing this on stats, but how in the hell is he in the HOF? Hell USA Today had him ranked as number 21 all time, 247sports has him ranked as 48 all time.

He played for 7 seasons, but only played a total of 4 games in years 6 and 7 combined. He only had 2 1000 yard seasons and those were the only times he led the league in rushing. He only had 2 seasons in which he had double digit receiving + rushing TDs. He was amazing at punt and kick off returns, but that was only for his first 3 years.

His career accomplishments aren't really that great, besides being AP 4 times. He never even got to play in a playoff game, so he obviously doesn't have any SB championships. He isn't even in the top 100 for career rushing yards, hell he's barely even in the top 150 coming in at 145th. He had a massive amount of rushing TDs though... 39...

He was good at 1 thing when it came to carrying the ball and that was fumbling. He almost has as many fumbles (34) as he does rushing TDs (39). Hell in a couple of seasons he had significantly more fumbles than rushing TDs.

Yr/Rush TDs/Fumbles

1/14/9
2/8/2
3/7/8
4/2/7
5/8/7
6/0/1
7/0/0

Out of 7 years he fumbled more than he rushed for a TD in 3 of those years.

He does have a few things on his resume that are pretty decent. He averaged 5.0 ypc over his entire career, was a fantastic returner during his first 3 years, and his rookie season he had 14 rush TDs, 6 receiving TDs, 1 kickoff return TD, and 1 punt return TD. I think his rookie season may be the reason he is so highly regarded. He is just incredibly over rated and seems to get a boost from being injury prone.

Someone prove me wrong.

[Prison Bitch]

Do any of his peer coaches or players agree?

[Megatron96]

Can't quantify Gale Sayers through his stats. Go watch him play. Then you'll understand.

Note: Gale was Barry Sanders or Sweetness before Barry or Walter.

[kgrund]

So as I was in the middle of doing some research for a post I went down a rabbit hole and eventually found myself looking at Gale Sayers stats. I may be completely off base here, because admittedly I have never watched any Gale Sayers highlights and am basing this on stats, but how in the hell is he in the HOF? Hell USA Today had him ranked as number 21 all time, 247sports has him ranked as 48 all time.

He played for 7 seasons, but only played a total of 4 games in years 6 and 7 combined. He only had 2 1000 yard seasons and those were the only times he led the league in rushing. He only had 2 seasons in which he had double digit receiving + rushing TDs. He was amazing at punt and kick off returns, but that was only for his first 3 years.

His career accomplishments aren't really that great, besides being AP 4 times. He never even got to play in a playoff game, so he obviously doesn't have any SB championships. He isn't even in the top 100 for career rushing yards, hell he's barely even in the top 150 coming in at 145th. He had a massive amount of rushing TDs though... 39...

He was good at 1 thing when it came to carrying the ball and that was fumbling. He almost has as many fumbles (34) as he does rushing TDs (39). Hell in a couple of seasons he had significantly more fumbles than rushing TDs.

Yr/Rush TDs/Fumbles

1/14/9
2/8/2
3/7/8
4/2/7
5/8/7
6/0/1
7/0/0

Out of 7 years he fumbled more than he rushed for a TD in 3 of those years.

He does have a few things on his resume that are pretty decent. He averaged 5.0 ypc over his entire career, was a fantastic returner during his first 3 years, and his rookie season he had 14 rush TDs, 6 receiving TDs, 1 kickoff return TD, and 1 punt return TD. I think his rookie season may be the reason he is so highly regarded. He is just incredibly over rated and seems to get a boost from being injury prone.

Someone prove me wrong.

What you should be focusing on is how great he had to be to not only be the HOF, but the NFL's All Time team. Do yourself a favor and go watch some Sayers' highlight reels and get back with us. He was truly special.

[dlphg9]

Can't quantify Gale Sayers through his stats. Go watch him play. Then you'll understand.

Note: Gale was Barry Sanders or Sweetness before Barry or Walter.

He has the least amount of rushing yards of any RB in the HOF. I don't care how smooth someone was if they were only productive for 5 years. Motherfucking Jamaal Charles may be the best damn running back I've ever watched, but he gets negative marks for his injuries.

[kgrund]

Total rushing yards is a big nothing burger. Nobody thinks Curtis Martin, Frank Gore, or Jerome Bettis are greater than Sayers. You can be really good for a long while and rack up yards. Sayers, by his peers and historians of the game, know he was not good but great.

[MatriculatingHank]

Emmitt Smith still sucks!

[Rain Man]

He was before my time, so I can't make a firsthand judgment.

I've long been an advocate that I'd rather see a truly dominant player get into the Hall of Fame even if his career was short, rather than a player who compiled a lot of stats by having a long and mediocre career. That said, you have to have enough time that we can prove that you were dominant and not just a flash in the pan.

Sayers effectively played for five seasons, with one of those cut short to 9 games (of 14). His last two seasons don't add to the discussion. In those five seasons, he had one dominant season rushing (1966) and two pretty decent ones (high ypc with relatively few carries in 1965 and 1968). He broke 1,000 yards in 1969, but with a non-elite ypc.

He also had three very dominant seasons as a kickoff returner as well (1965, 1966, and 1967).

So one could say that he really got in because of one fantastic season in 1966 and a very good season in 1965, with three other seasons that had decent to good phases.

On the basis of that, I wouldn't say that he proved himself. But I know that people who saw him play would say that he was dominant enough to be a Hall of Famer even with that short resume, and I think the eye test is important. I'll take their word for it.

Overall, though, I think he's a step above average plodders like Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin, and he's certainly better than Terrell Davis who only had two good seasons in a cheated salary cap situation, but he's far from the top of the list of Hall of Famers.

I'll allow him into the Hall of Fame, but with a shrug.

[dlphg9]

Total rushing yards is a big nothing burger. Nobody thinks Curtis Martin, Frank Gore, or Jerome Bettis are greater than Sayers. You can be really good for a long while and rack up yards. Sayers, by his peers and historians of the game, know he was not good but great.

Just got done watching some highlights and I would take Jamaal Charles over Sayers. God I hate watching old highlight vids. Everyone looks so god damn slow. Sayers was a great athlete back then, but if he played now he wouldn't be shit.

[Megatron96]

D-9, I went through this about 25-30 years ago. For me, it was the fact that all these 'experts' kept saying that Gale Sayers was better than Barry Sanders. It irked me. Finally I began watching tape on Gale. This was a lot harder back then. The Al Gore's interwebs wasn't what it is today. I had to record shows, on VHS. I had to find and watch full games of Gale so I could understand the context of his play.

What I came away with was that he wasn't better than Barry, IMO. But he made a pretty good argument that he was as good as Barry.

But none of that can be seen in his stats. It was a different time. The game was different. Just watch him play. Forget the stats. Gale changed the NFL's perspective on how the RB position was played or could be played. He was kind of the MJ of his time in the NFL. And that sea change that Gale Sayers produced through his play is why he's in the HOF. Not his stats.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Gale Sayers was the greatest....did I just see that....running back ever. The guy was on a whole other level when it came to....wow!!!!!

Don't take my word for it....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mzo-enTMdzc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


His first four seasons he averaged over five yards a carry, which it did for his career. Now add 6 kick returns and 2 punt returns to score. How many starting running backs can say that?

"The Kansas Comet" was very special, a one of a kind.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Kp5ZjoiS_Yo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


What gets lost in his story is his older brother Roger was faster than he was, he was a legit world class sprinter who once beat Bob Hayes.


One of my prized possesions


https://www.oldsportscards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/1969-Topps-51-Gale-Sayers-football-card.jpg


5 time pro bowler, 4 time all pro, in six seasons.

He was the nations top HS long jumper with 24-10 1/2

[dlphg9]

He was before my time, so I can't make a firsthand judgment.

I've long been an advocate that I'd rather see a truly dominant player get into the Hall of Fame even if his career was short, rather than a player who compiled a lot of stats by having a long and mediocre career. That said, you have to have enough time that we can prove that you were dominant and not just a flash in the pan.

Sayers effectively played for five seasons, with one of those cut short to 9 games (of 14). His last two seasons don't add to the discussion. In those five seasons, he had one dominant season rushing (1966) and two pretty decent ones (high ypc with relatively few carries in 1965 and 1968). He broke 1,000 yards in 1969, but with a non-elite ypc.

He also had three very dominant seasons as a kickoff returner as well (1965, 1966, and 1967).

So one could say that he really got in because of one fantastic season in 1966 and a very good season in 1965, with three other seasons that had decent to good phases.

On the basis of that, I wouldn't say that he proved himself. But I know that people who saw him play would say that he was dominant enough to be a Hall of Famer even with that short resume, and I think the eye test is important. I'll take their word for it.

Overall, though, I think he's a step above average plodders like Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin, and he's certainly better than Terrell Davis who only had two good seasons in a cheated salary cap situation, but he's far from the top of the list of Hall of Famers.

I'll allow him into the Hall of Fame, but with a shrug.

It just bugs me that people can look at a player with a short career that had some fairly good seasons and say yeah they belong among the best, but look at Jamaal and say that he wasn't a HOFer. Jamaal had 5 whole seasons as well and absolutely was a force on some terrible teams. They both had 5 years in which they played most all of the season.

Jamaals totals over those 5 years

77 games played/61 games started/1170 rushes/6416 rushing yards/38 rushing TDs/5.5 ypc/8401 yards from scrimmage/55 rushing + receiving yds

JC per season avg during those 5 years

234 rushes/1283 yds/8 rushing tds/1680 yds from scrimmage/11 rush + receiving tds

Sayers totals over his 5 season stretch

64 games played/60 games started/955 rushes/4866 rushing yards/39 rushing TDs/5.1 ypc/6178 yards from scrimmage/52 rushing + receiving yds

GS per season avg during those 5 years

191 rushes/973 yds/8 rushing tds/1235 yds from scrimmage/10 rush + receiving tds

So if Gale Sayers is a HOFer, then why isn't Jamaal Charles? People want to say it's because Jamaal didn't have enough years of playing at a high level, but thats not used against Sayers. Jamaal is probably the best/most explosive RB I've ever watched, but never gets national praise because he played for the Chiefs and some dog shit Chiefs teams. Jamaal is one of the most under appreciated players ever, but he was as dominate of a player as you can have. He almost never got stopped for a loss. I wish things could have went better for Jamaal.

[dlphg9]

D-9, I went through this about 25-30 years ago. For me, it was the fact that all these 'experts' kept saying that Gale Sayers was better than Barry Sanders. It irked me. Finally I began watching tape on Gale. This was a lot harder back then. The Al Gore's interwebs wasn't what it is today. I had to record shows, on VHS. I had to find and watch full games of Gale so I could understand the context of his play.

What I came away with was that he wasn't better than Barry, IMO. But he made a pretty good argument that he was as good as Barry.

But none of that can be seen in his stats. It was a different time. The game was different. Just watch him play. Forget the stats. Gale changed the NFL's perspective on how the RB position was played or could be played. He was kind of the MJ of his time in the NFL. And that sea change that Gale Sayers produced through his play is why he's in the HOF. Not his stats.

I watched him. Players back then just weren't as athletic as they are now on average. Throw Jamaal on a team in the past and people would talk about him like they do Barry Sanders. Gale and Sanders had the benefit of playing lesser competition. Jamaal was playing in a time where some LBs were as fast as the RBs and he made guys look stupid.

[Ubeja Vontell]

I watched him. Players back then just weren't as athletic as they are now on average. Throw Jamaal on a team in the past and people would talk about him like they do Barry Sanders. Gale and Sanders had the benefit of playing lesser competition. Jamaal was playing in a time where some LBs were as fast as the RBs and he made guys look stupid.

Sayers scored 22 td's his rookie season, he scored 8 times on returns in his career,

Forget who played in what era, that never means anything, it's aiways vs your era.

Saw both play many times, Gale Sayers simply a more exciting runner. Barry Sanders his only equal.

Sayers more pro bowls/all pro's in six seasons than Charles had in what 11/12?

There had never been anything like Gale Sayers before, he was totally unique.



Stold this...

Gale Sayers (1965-1971)

Sayers was the all-time halfback during the NFL's 50th season in 1969, and his legacy is good enough to make him a finalist for the 100th season. Sayers finished his career with 9,435 scrimmage yards, including 4,956 rushing yards. He led all NFL rushers in both 1966 and 1969, and he was a five-time all-NFL member. Of his four Pro Bowl selections, he was player of the game three times.





STEVE SABOL, president of NFL Films:

1. Jim Brown: He remains the very definition of greatness. His career is a yardstick by which all other running backs are measured.

2. Walter Payton: He had all the moves: a lowered shoulder for a defensive lineman, a slack leg for a linebacker, and a lead-pipe stiff arm for a defensive back. He would pivot, change speeds and run laterally when necessary. But he never lost sight of a great runner’s first principle: When everything else fails, gut out a couple of yards.

3. Barry Sanders: He challenged the notion that football is a contact sport. Many times I saw him run 50 yards or more for touchdowns without being touched by a defender.

4. Gale Sayers: He was what coaches in the 1960s called an “anywhere, anytime runner,” meaning he was a threat to score from any place on the field at any moment of the game.

[Nickhead]

So as I was in the middle of doing some research for a post I went down a rabbit hole and eventually found myself looking at Gale Sayers stats. I may be completely off base here, because admittedly I have never watched any Gale Sayers highlights and am basing this on stats, but how in the hell is he in the HOF? Hell USA Today had him ranked as number 21 all time, 247sports has him ranked as 48 all time.

He played for 7 seasons, but only played a total of 4 games in years 6 and 7 combined. He only had 2 1000 yard seasons and those were the only times he led the league in rushing. He only had 2 seasons in which he had double digit receiving + rushing TDs. He was amazing at punt and kick off returns, but that was only for his first 3 years.

His career accomplishments aren't really that great, besides being AP 4 times. He never even got to play in a playoff game, so he obviously doesn't have any SB championships. He isn't even in the top 100 for career rushing yards, hell he's barely even in the top 150 coming in at 145th. He had a massive amount of rushing TDs though... 39...

He was good at 1 thing when it came to carrying the ball and that was fumbling. He almost has as many fumbles (34) as he does rushing TDs (39). Hell in a couple of seasons he had significantly more fumbles than rushing TDs.

Yr/Rush TDs/Fumbles

1/14/9
2/8/2
3/7/8
4/2/7
5/8/7
6/0/1
7/0/0

Out of 7 years he fumbled more than he rushed for a TD in 3 of those years.

He does have a few things on his resume that are pretty decent. He averaged 5.0 ypc over his entire career, was a fantastic returner during his first 3 years, and his rookie season he had 14 rush TDs, 6 receiving TDs, 1 kickoff return TD, and 1 punt return TD. I think his rookie season may be the reason he is so highly regarded. He is just incredibly over rated and seems to get a boost from being injury prone.

Someone prove me wrong.

just when you ridicule me of stupid posts, you post this? did you get kicked in the head by a horse recently? asking for a friend. :thumb:

[EPodolak]

One of those guys who was splendid and slippery running the ball. Eric Dickerson, OJ Simpson type. Played on a hapless Bears team during 14 game seasons too. Not too concerned about his numbers and worthiness.

[jerryaldini]

Elite elusiveness, speed but also power that Sanders didn't have. His running style was a lot like OJ. The long gallop. Jim Brown is the most dominant back. Led league in rushing 8 times, all but one year. No contest.

But if I have to win one game I'm taking a young four time rushing champ and single season yards leader Eric Dickerson. Best combo of power, speed and elusiveness. 3900 yards in first two seasons, fastest to 10,000.

[CarlosCarson27]

Brian's Song wasnt all that great either

[jerryaldini]

One of those guys who was splendid and slippery running the ball. Eric Dickerson, OJ Simpson type. Played on a hapless Bears team during 14 game seasons too. Not too concerned about his numbers and worthiness.

My two favorite backs to watch! Similar styles and abilities. Dickerson much more powerful. Also had most dominant playoff rushing game by a back with 250 in a win against the Cowboys.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Brian's Song wasnt all that great either

Brian Piccolo was the nations leading rusher coming out of Wake Forest.

[jerryaldini]

Brian Piccolo was the nations leading rusher coming out of Wake Forest.

Eric Dickerson was a track guy. 6' 3". What was his 40?

[Ubeja Vontell]

Eric Dickerson was a track guy. 6' 3". What was his 40?

Simpson 9.4...WR 4x1 relay at USC
Faulk 10.3
Peterson 10.2
Dickerson 9.4
Sayers....long jump/4x1 relay

Were all track guys.

Dickerson has a 4.28 40, and was a Texas sprint champ in HS with a 9.4. If not for football he could have been a world class sprinter.

Jamaal Charles a 10.18 100m while at Texas.

[Megatron96]

Just got done watching some highlights and I would take Jamaal Charles over Sayers. God I hate watching old highlight vids. Everyone looks so god damn slow. Sayers was a great athlete back then, but if he played now he wouldn't be shit.

Younger fans always think that the players from the previous generations weren't as fast or as athletic, because they watch these clips on YT and think that stuff was filmed and recorded at the same speed as the stuff today. Which is completely false.

The problem with watching highlight videos on Youtube or whatever of old games is that the games were filmed at 32 fps and then for some reason on YT they replay at 24 fps, which makes everyone look slower than they really were, or even looked when the game actually aired.

Meanwhile, today everything is aired at 60fps.

If you want to get a better idea of Gale's real speed run the YT video at 1.5x speed. It still not quite right, but it's a lot closer to what it probably really looked like when the game aired. When I did this I had the benefit of actual VHS tape, and my player could be adjusted by 0.1X increments, so I could get it to playback at about the actual game speed.

I realized that there was a problem with replay speed because I watched guys like Walter Payton, Roger Craig, Hershel Walker, Marcus Allen, Tony Dorsett, and Eric Dickerson in their prime years, and I knew that they were faster than the replay.

I got my answer when I asked an old A/V guy (God, he was probably about the age I am now) at the library about the problem, and he told me the issue about 32 fps vs. 24 fps, etc.

Btw, Gale ran a 4.38 sec 40 yd time, faster than Damien Williams by about a tenth, and a 9.70 sec or so 100 yd time.

And unlike Damien (and most humans), Gale could change direction almost 90 degrees while going full speed, and not lose any speed.

As for his stats, again, I don't believe that you can look at his stats and say much of anything, because it was a different time, a 14-game schedule, etc. But if you only look at his first 5 years and extrapolate his numbers if he'd had a 16 game season, you find that he'd have run for over 1,000 yards for each of his first five seasons, would've scored more than 10 TDs per season, would've averaged more than 5.0 yards/carry, etc.

Note: Gale Sayers did all of that while never averaging more than 17 rushes/game in any season. Also, Gale is the only NFL player to ever average more than 30 yards/carry as a PR/KR (30.6).

And finally, if you look at his stats from an all-purpose yards stand-point, in his first five years, Gale Sayers accumulated 9,434 yards and 50 TDs. Extrapolate those numbers for a 16-game season, and well, he'd have some pretty gaudy stats for his first five seasons. Or what they might've been had he just averaged around 20 rushes/game instead of just 15.

But again, I think Gale Sayers is a HOFer because of how he ran more than the whatever stats he earned. Watch him run at 1.5x speed.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Younger fans always think that the players from the previous generations weren't as fast or as athletic, because they watch these clips on YT and think that stuff was filmed and recorded at the same speed as the stuff today. Which is completely false.

The problem with watching highlight videos on Youtube or whatever of old games is that the games were filmed at 32 fps and then for some reason on YT they replay at 24 fps, which makes everyone look slower than they really were, or even looked when the game actually aired.

Meanwhile, today everything is aired at 60fps.

If you want to get a better idea of Gale's real speed run the YT video at 1.5x speed. It still not quite right, but it's a lot closer to what it probably really looked like when the game aired. When I did this I had the benefit of actual VHS tape, and my player could be adjusted by 0.1X increments, so I could get it to playback at about the actual game speed.

I realized that there was a problem with replay speed because I watched guys like Walter Payton, Roger Craig, Hershel Walker, Marcus Allen, Tony Dorsett, and Eric Dickerson in their prime years, and I knew that they were faster than the replay.

I got my answer when I asked an old A/V guy (God, he was probably about the age I am now) at the library about the problem, and he told me the issue about 32 fps vs. 24 fps, etc.

Btw, Gale ran a 4.38 40 time, faster than Damien Williams by about a tenth, and a 9.7 or so 100 time.

And unlike Damien (and most humans), Gale could change direction almost 90 degrees while going full speed, and not lose any speed.

As for his stats, again, I don't believe that you can look at his stats and say much of anything, because it was a different time, a 14-game schedule, etc. But if you only look at his first 5 years and extrapolate his numbers if he'd had a 16 game season, you find that he'd have run for over 1,000 yards for each of his first five seasons, would've scored more than 10 TDs per season, would've averaged more than 5.0 yards/carry, etc.

Note: Gale Sayers did all of that while never averaging more than 17 rushes/game in any season. Also, Gale is the only NFL player to ever average more than 30 yards/carry as a PR/KR (30.6).

And finally, if you look at his stats from an all-purpose yards stand-point, in his first five years, Gale Sayers accumulated 9,434 yards and 50 TDs. Extrapolate those numbers for a 16-game season, and well, he'd have some pretty gaudy stats for his first five seasons. Or what they might've been had he just averaged around 20 rushes/game instead of just 15.

But again, I think Gale Sayers is a HOFer because of how he ran more than the whatever stats he earned. Watch him run at 1.5x speed.

There are no players today or never has been who were faster than Bob Hayes who ran a 10.06 on a dirt track over 50 years ago.

Curtis Dickey back in the 70's still the fastest RB, ran a 10.10.

Yes, Sayers was a 9.7 guy in HS?

[Megatron96]

There are no players today or never has been who were faster than Bob Hayes who ran a 10.06 on a dirt track over 50 years ago.

Curtis Dickey back in the 70's still the fastest RB, ran a 10.10.

Yes, Sayers was a 9.7 guy in HS?

According to the Chicago Tribune, Sayers ran a 9.7 sec 100-YARD TIME, not meters.

About half-way down the article:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-10-08-8901210049-story.html

[Ubeja Vontell]

According to the Chicago Tribune, Sayers ran a 9.7 sec 100-YARD TIME, not meters.

About half-way down the article:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-10-08-8901210049-story.html

Obviously he ran a 9.7 yards, that's what HS;s ran back then.

The 100m WR in his day was that 10,06 by Bob Hayes.

A 9.7 for meters just won the last World Championships.

John Riggins twice won the Kansas State HS 100 yards, ran a 9.8. I'm guessing a little lighter.

[Megatron96]

9.7 sec for 100-yards is still pretty fast. Just not world-class speed.

[Megatron96]

Going back to context:

"The professional football career of Gale Sayers was brief, lasting for six seasons, from 1965 to 1971. He played a total of only 68 games, yet Sayers retired with a career gain of 6,213 yards and left six National Football League (NFL) records, among them a record as the all-time leading NFL scorer for a single season in 1965 with 22 touchdowns. That record, which stood for 10 years, remained an all-time rookie scoring record into the twenty-first century. Sayers was honored as NFL Rookie of the Year in 1965 and as Most Valuable Player in 1967, 1968, and 1970. " - excerpt from NFL HOF "Gale Sayers"


Sayers' record of 22 touchdowns in a season was broken by O. J. Simpson in 1975, who scored 23; his 22 touchdowns remains a rookie record as of 2017. Sayers remains the most recent player to score at least six touchdowns in a game. His career kickoff return average of 30.56 yards is an NFL record for players with at least 75 attempts and he is one of several players to have scored two return touchdowns in a game. He is tied with four other players for the second most career kickoff return touchdowns, with six. Sayers' rookie record of 2,272 all-purpose yards was finally broken in 1988 by Tim Brown, who gained 2,317 yards through 16 games, which was two more games than Sayers set the record in. His single-season all-purpose yards record of 2,440 set in 1966 was broken in 1974 by Mack Herron, who surpassed it by just four yards.

As of 2019's NFL off-season, Gale Sayers held at least 20 Bears franchise records, including:

Most Rush Yds/Att (career): 5.0
Most Rush Yds/Att (game): 11.59 (1966-12-18 MIN)
Most Rushing TDs (season): 14 (1965; tied with Walter Payton twice)
Most Rushing TDs (rookie season): 14 (1965)
Most Total TDs (season): 22 (1965)
Most Total TDs (game): 6 (1965-12-12 SFO)
Most Total TDs (rookie season): 22 (1965)
Most Total TDs (game, as a rookie): 6 (1965-12-12 SFO)
Most All Purpose Yds (season): 2,440 (1966)
Most All Purpose Yds (game): 339 (1966-12-18 MIN)
Most All Purpose Yds (rookie season): 2,272 (1965)
Most All Purpose Yds (game, as a rookie): 336 (1965-12-12 SFO)
Most Yds/KR (career): 30.56 (also NFL record)
Most Yds/KR (season): 37.69 (1967)
Most Kick Ret TDs (career): 6
Most Games with 1+ TD scored (season): 12 (1965)
Most Games with 1+ TD scored (rookie season): 12
Most Games with 2+ TD scored (rookie season): 4
Most Games with 3+ TD scored (season): 2 (1965; tied with Walter Payton twice, Neal Anderson, and Matt Forte)
Most Games with 3+ TD scored (rookie season): 2

So endeth the lesson.

[Ubeja Vontell]

9.7 sec for 100-yards is still pretty fast. Just not world-class speed.

Sayers ran that 9.7 around 1960/61 at that time the World Record was 9.3, and Sayers was just a high school kid.

1961 NCAA


1961
(Philadelphia, June 17)
(15 contestants, 9 finalists; Q—9.8y; no semis)
1. Frank Budd (Villanova) ...................................... Jr................9.4y
2. Harry Jerome' (Oregon)..................................... So ..............9.5
3. Leroy Jackson (Western Illinois)........................ Jr................9.5
4. Roscoe Cook (Oregon) ..................................... Sr ...............9.6
5. Bob Brown (Penn State) ................................... Sr ...............9.6
6. Doug Smith (Oxy).............................................. Sr ...............9.6
7. Bob Poynter (San José State)........................... Sr ...............9.7
8. Roy Smalley (Baylor)......................................... Jr................9.7
9. Larry Dunn (Arizona) ......................................... Jr................9.7

9.7 was smokin' for a HS kid.


His brother Roger in 1962

1962
(Eugene, June 16)
(13 contestants, 8 finalists; Q—9.7y; no semis)
1. Frank Budd (Villanova) ...................................... Sr ...............9.4yw
2. Harry Jerome' (Oregon)..................................... Jr................9.4w
3. Dennis Johnson' (San José State) .................... Sr ...............9.4w
4. Roger Sayers (Nebraska–Omaha)..................... So ..............9.5w*****
5 Paul Drayton (Villanova) .................................... Sr ...............9.5w
6. Jack Higgins (Puget Sound).............................. Sr ...............9.6w
7. Joe Thornton (Norfolk State)............................. Sr ...............9.7w
8. Joe Almgauer (Army)......................................... Sr ...............9.7w

[Scooter LaCanforno]

Obviously he ran a 9.7 yards, that's what HS;s ran back then.

The 100m WR in his day was that 10,06 by Bob Hayes.

A 9.7 for meters just won the last World Championships.

John Riggins twice won the Kansas State HS 100 yards, ran a 9.8. I'm guessing a little lighter.


I always heard Riggins ran a 9.7

Gayle Sayers should have signed with the Chiefs after they drafted him.

[Ubeja Vontell]

I always heard Riggins ran a 9.7

Gayle Sayers should have signed with the Chiefs after they drafted him.

Boys Track Records

Event

Time/Distance

Year

Name

100 Yd Dash

9.8

1967
John Riggins

220 Yd Dash

21.7

1967
John Riggins

100 M Dash 10.90 1980 Todd Polson
200 M Dash 22.10 1981 Todd Polson
400 M Dash

49.82

1982
Todd Polson

800 M Run

1:57.91

2013
Lukas Koch

1600 M Run

4:16.63

2013 Lukas Koch

Abner Haynes was pretty good, he got the job done.

By the way Riggins could also long jump over 21 feet.

Used to be a video of Riggins winning one of those 100's at State. Then....poof!

[oldman]

I saw him play at Kansas and in the pros. He had both power and speed, but the thing that stood out to me was the way he could change direction without losing either. He's a HOFer for sure.

[Tribal Warfare]

I saw him play at Kansas and in the pros. He had both power and speed, but the thing that stood out to me was the way he could change direction without losing either. He's a HOFer for sure.

Deacon Jones: "he ran so pretty you'd stand there and forget to tackle"

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

He was actually drafted by the Chiefs in the AFL draft out of the University of Kansas. But chose the Bears who also drafted him in the NFL draft. Oh what could have been...

[Tribal Warfare]

He was actually drafted by the Chiefs in the AFL draft out of the University of Kansas. But chose the Bears who also drafted him in the NFL draft. Oh what could have been...

His wife pushed him towards the NFL because ultimately they thought the AFL would flame out

[Ubeja Vontell]

While at Kansas he averaged 7.1, 6.9, 5.2 in his three seasons. Funny thing there is nothing about kick returns.

It is unusual to have your starting RB returning kicks.


Jim Brown actually returned some kickoffs.

[oldman]

You have to remember that most college and pro teams at that time were running a T formation and the TE was seldom used as a receiver. Normally, your HBs were the fastest guys on the team. It wasn't until the AFL came along that the SE/Flanker (aka WR) became a thing. Chris Burford never had a 1000 yard season.

[Ubeja Vontell]

You have to remember that most college and pro teams at that time were running a T formation and the TE was seldom used as a receiver. Normally, your HBs were the fastest guys on the team. It wasn't until the AFL came along that the SE/Flanker (aka WR) became a thing. Chris Burford never had a 1000 yard season.

Don Hutson in the 30's?

Tom Fears had a couple 1000 yard seasons before the AFL.

Bob Boyd a 1000 yard season. An NCAA 100 champ.

How about....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_m48B1yWnoY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldman]

Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB.
Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB.
Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.

I don't get what the AFL has to do with anything.

[Rain Man]

Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB.
Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.

Or fullbacks. Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Marion Motley, etc. I'd be curious about the role of the fullback versus the halfback in NFL history to see where the tide shifted, and which players may have led that shift. There have always been prominent halfbacks going back to Red Grange and Beattie Feathers, but I feel like fullbacks got equal or better workloads up until ... the 1960s?

[Halfcan]

He carried the ball like a loaf of bread.

[Rain Man]

He carried the ball like a loaf of bread.

Andy would have deactivated him for Super Bowl LIV.

[Baby Lee]

Sayers lives more on legendary potential and skill that outshone his contemporaries more than longevity or durability, that much is obvious.

But his potential and skill is hard to visualize in contemporary terms.

Best I could imagine for a Chiefs fan of today, is picture if you had Jamaal Charles' most productive season and Devin Hester's, in the same player.

The thing that differentiates his from other young RB phenoms was how he could split defenders and completely change the field in full stride.

People are STILL agape how Michael Vick and Lamar Jackson did something vaguely similar once or twice in their careers.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Or fullbacks. Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Marion Motley, etc. I'd be curious about the role of the fullback versus the halfback in NFL history to see where the tide shifted, and which players may have led that shift. There have always been prominent halfbacks going back to Red Grange and Beattie Feathers, but I feel like fullbacks got equal or better workloads up until ... the 1960s?

Jim Brown
Jim Taylor
John Henry Johnson
Marion Motley
Tank Younger
Rick Casares
Joe Perry
Alan Amechi
Alex Webster
Bronko Nagurski
Nick Pietrasonte
Dick Bass

All listed as fullbacks

The first 1000 yard rusher in the AFL FB Cookie Gilchrist

[lawrenceRaider]

Just got done watching some highlights and I would take Jamaal Charles over Sayers. God I hate watching old highlight vids. Everyone looks so god damn slow. Sayers was a great athlete back then, but if he played now he wouldn't be shit.

You sir have invalidated any opinion you put forth at any point in the future as well as everything you've said in the past.

May God have mercy on your soul.

[Molitoth]

I've seen much better Running Backs at my local Guitar Center.

[Kman34]

Brian’s Song..

[Nickhead]

You sir have invalidated any opinion you put forth at any point in the future as well as everything you've said in the past.

May God have mercy on your soul.

Yeah. He’s gone full retard fer sure. :D

[dlphg9]

You sir have invalidated any opinion you put forth at any point in the future as well as everything you've said in the past.

May God have mercy on your soul.

You dont think old highlight videos make the players look slow?

[Megatron96]

You dont think old highlight videos make the players look slow?

They look slow because the playback is slower than actual. Go to settings and speed it up to 1.5x. That's about actual speed.

[gblowfish]

Gayle Sayers was one of the most gifted running backs to ever lace them up. And this is coming from a Mizzou guy who hates Jayhawks. He scored six TDs in one game, in the mud.

[big nasty kcnut]

Fuck off gayle was inhuman!

[oldman]

I don't get what the AFL has to do with anything.

That's because you're an ignorant slut. :evil::D

The AFL was considered by most NFL fans and teams as inferior because the AFL was considered more offense oriented. Take a look at Paul Hornung, Lenny Moore, or Frank Gifford's stats. There were quite a few seasons they had more receiving yards than rushing.

[srvy]

He carried the ball like a loaf of bread.

Yeah I am old enough to remember him playing he did have poor ball protection skills and ran backward losing yards but he was a homerun hitter. The Bears were pretty bad the years I remember him. Shady really modeled his game after Gayle. Fun player to watch but the coaches of that day I bet were very frustrated with him slinging that ball out from his body. Would have been interesting to see what Hank Stram would have done with him.

[Ubeja Vontell]

That's because you're an ignorant slut. :evil::D

The AFL was considered by most NFL fans and teams as inferior because the AFL was considered more offense oriented. Take a look at Paul Hornung, Lenny Moore, or Frank Gifford's stats. There were quite a few seasons they had more receiving yards than rushing.

Still don't get what the AFL had to do with anything, much less Hornung, Moore and Gifford. Moore and Gifford slot receivers today.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Imagine if he had gone to the Chiefs instead with that dominant defense they had in the 60’s. He could have won multiple championships and might be remembered as the greatest of all time (or close to).

Now, you really wanna talk about overrated RB’s in the HOF? Terrell Davis (only 3 good years, product of zone blocking scheme in which backs like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson had similar success running). Jerome Bettis (I’m big, hard to tackle and played forever so I should be in the HOF) There’s a couple RB’s who have no business being in the HOF.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Imagine if he had gone to the Chiefs instead with that dominant defense they had in the 60’s. He could have won multiple championships and might be remembered as the greatest of all time (or close to).

Now, you really wanna talk about overrated RB’s in the HOF? Terrell Davis (only 3 good years, product of zone blocking scheme in which backs like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson had similar success running). Jerome Bettis (I’m big, hard to tackle and played forever so I should be in the HOF) There’s a couple RB’s who have no business being in the HOF.

Abner Haynes did great as the Chiefs RB.

The most overrated HALL OF FAME RB is..........Floyd Little. He has no business there at all, not at all.

Davis had a few fantastic seasons.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Davis had one fantastic season and two really good ones.

But he was a product of their running scheme. It’s why you saw Denver’s rushing attack plug right along without missing a beat when they inserted the likes of Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary.

[srvy]

Imagine if he had gone to the Chiefs instead with that dominant defense they had in the 60’s. He could have won multiple championships and might be remembered as the greatest of all time (or close to).

Now, you really wanna talk about overrated RB’s in the HOF? Terrell Davis (only 3 good years, product of zone blocking scheme in which backs like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson had similar success running). Jerome Bettis (I’m big, hard to tackle and played forever so I should be in the HOF) There’s a couple RB’s who have no business being in the HOF.

Thats no shit

[Ubeja Vontell]

Davis had one fantastic season and two really good ones.

But he was a product of their running scheme. It’s why you saw Denver’s rushing attack plug right along without missing a beat when they inserted the likes of Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary.

First four seasons

1117
1538
1730
2008

Scored 56 rushing TD's. that is great!!!!!!!!

His average season....1370 yards 14TD'S

[Nickhead]

Imagine if he had gone to the Chiefs instead with that dominant defense they had in the 60’s. He could have won multiple championships and might be remembered as the greatest of all time (or close to).

Now, you really wanna talk about overrated RB’s in the HOF? Terrell Davis (only 3 good years, product of zone blocking scheme in which backs like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson had similar success running). Jerome Bettis (I’m big, hard to tackle and played forever so I should be in the HOF) There’s a couple RB’s who have no business being in the HOF.

OJ says he is innocent ROFL

[TomBarndtsTwin]

First four seasons

1117
1538
1730
2008

Scored 56 rushing TD's. that is great!!!!!!!!

His average season....1370 yards 14TD'S

His first season he was 10th in the league in yards with single digit TD’s. That’s not particularly impressive, especially when you consider guys like Rondey Hampton and Harvey Williams (yes, THAT Harvey Williams) we’re doing the same thing.

So like I said, one fantastic season (the 2,000 yard season) and two really good ones.

But again, product of a system . . . . .

[Ubeja Vontell]

His first season he was 10th in the league in yards with single digit TD’s. That’s not particularly impressive, especially when you consider guys like Rondey Hampton and Harvey Williams (yes, THAT Harvey Williams) we’re doing the same thing.

So like I said, one fantastic season (the 2,000 yard season) and two really good ones.

But again, product of a system . . . . .

This is "product of a system" really?


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[TomBarndtsTwin]

That’s great.

Give me an hour (no, I’m not going to BTW) and I can put together a highlight reel for Harvey Williams for the best runs from his career. That’s what a highlight reel is. It shows all the highlights w/o focusing on any of the other stuff.

Davis was a great NFL RB and had an amazing 3 season run, but that’s it. 3 seasons. And again, if he was so dynamic, how was it that the Broncos rushing attack didn’t hardly miss a beat when they plugged in Gary and Anderson after he was gone?

Is it more than likely that they were HOF caliber players too or could it be that the Donkos with their zone blocking scheme and they’re cheap (borderline dirty) cut blocks made those RB’s look better than they really were?

Made a great RB look like a HOF Rb for 3 seasons and a couple JAG’s look like great NFL backs.

Let’s be real and call it what it is.

[Ubeja Vontell]

That’s great.

Give me an hour (no, I’m not going to BTW) and I can put together a highlight reel for Harvey Williams for the best runs from his career. That’s what a highlight reel is. It shows all the highlights w/o focusing on any of the other stuff.

Davis was a great NFL RB and had an amazing 3 season run, but that’s it. 3 seasons. And again, if he was so dynamic, how was it that the Broncos rushing attack didn’t hardly miss a beat when they plugged in Gary and Anderson after he was gone?

Is it more than likely that they were HOF caliber players too or could it be that the Donkos with their zone blocking scheme and they’re cheap (borderline dirty) cut blocks made those RB’s look better than they really were?

Made a great RB look like a HOF Rb for 3 seasons and a couple JAG’s look like great NFL backs.

Let’s be real and call it what it is.

You can take the careers of Harvey Williams, Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary and combine what they did and it won't match Davis, he was on a totally different level and it was very obvious.

Davis a three time All Pro.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Right, again, 3 seasons.

It should take more than that to make an All Time NFL great.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Right, again, 3 seasons.

It should take more than that to make an All Time NFL great.

Check out Hall of Famer Lynn Swann


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanLy00.htm

Check out Hall of Famer Floyd Little


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LittFl00.htm

[Willie Lanier]

Gale Sayers is 100% a hall of famer

He was damn near unstoppable when he was healthy

[Ubeja Vontell]

Gale Sayers is 100% a hall of famer

He was damn near unstoppable when he was healthy

He was totally amazing.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Check out Hall of Famer Lynn Swann


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanLy00.htm

Check out Hall of Famer Floyd Little


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LittFl00.htm

Never said either of those two belong in the Hall. They don’t.

Neither does Davis. Nor does Bettis, for that matter.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Never said either of those two belong in the Hall. They don’t.

Neither does Davis. Nor does Bettis, for that matter.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bettis had 8 1000 plus seasons, scored 94...94!!!...TD;s.

Made six pro bowls, and was All Pro twice.

That is a HOF career,

[scho63]

I never saw Gale Sayers play but so many people felt he was an incredible talent at that moment in time.

I certainly don't think he sucked and my first understanding of Gale Sayers was the movie Brian's Song. That was some powerful shit right there. Transcending race, religion and politics for friendship. One of the Top Ten sport movies ever.

[Ubeja Vontell]

I never saw Gale Sayers play but so many people felt he was an incredible talent at that moment in time.

I certainly don't think he sucked and my first understanding of Gale Sayers was the movie Brian's Song. That was some powerful shit right there. Transcending race, religion and politics for friendship. One of the Top Ten sport movies ever.

Would you watch a video of Sayers and the magic?

In my opinion....

Jim Brown
Barry Sanders
Walter Payton
Gale Sayers...by far the fastest

[Willie Lanier]

Never said either of those two belong in the Hall. They don’t.

Neither does Davis. Nor does Bettis, for that matter.

You have a fairly stringent definition, but I can see your point

[scho63]

Would you watch a video of Sayers and the magic?

In my opinion....

Jim Brown
Barry Sanders
Walter Payton
Gale Sayers...by far the fastest

Jim Brown-the Punisher
Barry Sanders-The Quick Bull
Walter Peyton-OJ but smoother and more fluid with sneaky strength
Gale Sayers-burst and dash with great insight

[gblowfish]

I've had doubts about the HOF since they let Whitney Houston in...

[scho63]

I've had doubts about the HOF since they let Whitney Houston in...

ROFLROFL