Part of Oklahoma (kind of) secedes from the United States

[Rain Man]

The Supreme Court ruled today that a big chunk of Oklahoma is actually a Native American reservation, including most of Tulsa. Apparently this impacts what laws apply, so state law may not exist in Tulsa any more.

Link below. Apparently the Muscogee Indians argued that their reservation was never officially taken away when Oklahoma became a state. The government believed that statehood rendered the reservation moot, but the Supreme Court disagrees. So as of today we now have an enormous reservation that apparently controls Tulsa, and I bet they buy Dan Snyder's team once they kill off all of the illegal settlers and take their stuff.

I wonder about the other Indian lands now. It seems like other Indian tribes can make the same argument.

https://theturtleislandnews.com/index.php/2020/07/09/justices-rule-swath-of-oklahoma-remains-tribal-reservation/

[RealSNR]

So the only remaining (kind of) state of Oklahoma is the panhandle?

[Discuss Thrower]

If the local tribes are savvy then they'd turn Tulsa into a tax haven.

[Rain Man]

So the only remaining (kind of) state of Oklahoma is the panhandle?

It's hard to figure out, but I think the new reservation is the Muscogee area in the middle of the map. I think there are other reservations that exist already, too. But I'm wondering if all of those Indian lands in the map will hop on the bandwagon.

[BigRedChief]

Wellll we all know we ****ed over the Indians. Here lay down your arms. We will give you this worthless land. Binding legal agreements signed. Later it has value, sorry our bad, GTFO

[Halfcan]

I guess the residents in these areas will have to be put on a long march somewhere to be relocated.

[LiveSteam]

Trail of beers

[Rain Man]

If the local tribes are savvy then they'd turn Tulsa into a tax haven.

I'm curious what happens if you own a house or business there. Doesn't the tribe own everything on the reservation? I could be wrong on that, and maybe different tribes do things differently.

[Rain Man]

I guess the residents in these areas will have to be put on a long march somewhere to be relocated.

That would be unprecedented. Well, almost.

[Rain Man]

Apparently this all came about because a convicted pedophile argued that the state couldn't prosecute him because the land was actually Native land and not the state. He threw up a complete hail mary that's going to cause all sorts of problems, and may actually work for him.

[Hydrae]

The Navajo land in northern Arizona is a separate entity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Nation#Government

I thought this was interesting:

The United States still asserts plenary power and thus requires the territory of the Navajo Nation to submit all proposed laws to the United States Secretary of the Interior for Secretarial Review, through the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA).

The US Supreme Court in United States v. Kagama (1889) affirmed that Congress has plenary power over all Indian tribes within United States borders, saying that "The power of the general government over these remnants of a race once powerful ... is necessary to their protection as well as to the safety of those among whom they dwell".[18] It noted that the tribes did not owe allegiance to the states within which their reservations were located.[19]

Most conflicts and controversies between the federal government of the United States and the Nation are settled by negotiations outlined in political agreements. The Navajo Nation Code comprises the rules and laws of the Navajo Nation as currently codified in the latest edition.

[BigRedChief]

That would be unprecedented. Well, almost.LMAO well played sir, well played.:thumb:

[Kiimo]

The Navajo land in northern Arizona is a separate entity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Nation#Government

I thought this was interesting:


I've driven through it. It's weird as hell, pulling people over to search their cars like the border in Mexico

[Shaid]

Everyone currently living on the reservation, including all of Tulsa, can vote to be part of Oklahoma. Problem solved.

[Fish]

Let's invade!

[Kiimo]

Let's invade!

Usually you want to invade somewhere that has something of value.


I don't think Big Splash is worth the effort

[Chiefspants]

WOW

[lcarus]

Seems most people here are part of some tribe anyway. Everyone has a Cherokee or Muscogee license plate.

[Bugeater]

Usually you want to invade somewhere that has something of value.


I don't think Big Splash is worth the effort
What about the Blue Whale of Catoosa? THINK ABOUT THE BLUE WHALE FOR GOD'S SAKE!


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Rt_66_Blue_Whale_Highsmith.jpg/1920px-Rt_66_Blue_Whale_Highsmith.jpg

[KCUnited]

I casino problem with this

[KC_Lee]

I casino problem with this

This was my first thought; Tulsa is going to become the new Vegas.

[ralittleus]

Growing Weed

[Megatron96]

Usually you want to invade somewhere that has something of value.


I don't think Big Splash is worth the effort

Boeing Aerospace, Pratt & Whitney, Lockheed Martin Aircraft, Northrop Grumman, General Electric Aviation and AAR Aircraft Services all have major operations in OK. Most of those (possibly all) produce military aircraft/parts/engines in OK.

Oklahoma was the fourth-largest crude oil producer among the states in 2019, and it accounted for nearly 5% of the nation's crude oil production.
As of January 2019, Oklahoma had 5 operable petroleum refineries with a combined daily processing capacity of almost 523,000 barrels per day, nearly 3% of the total U.S. capacity.

Oklahoma had the fourth-largest gross withdrawals of natural gas among the states in 2019 and accounted for about 9% of the nation's marketed production.

The benchmark price in the domestic spot market for the U.S. crude oil known as West Texas Intermediate (WTI) is set at Cushing, Oklahoma, home to about 15% of the nation’s commercial crude oil storage capacity.

In 2019, Oklahoma ranked second after Texas in total electricity net generation from wind and was third in wind's share of state generation after Iowa and Kansas. Wind supplied nearly 35% of Oklahoma's net generation, more than any other source.

Guessing water parks won't be among the top 100 reasons the U.S. won't just give up OK to the Muscogees, SCOTUS ruling or not.

[frozenchief]

From what I can see just skimming the opinion:

1. The state of Oklahoma still exists;
2. Part of Oklahoma is Indian land, which was not abolished by the creation of the state of Oklahoma
3. One effect of Indian land is that the State of Oklahoma does not have jurisdiction to try enrolled tribal members for crimes that occur on Indian land. This means that prosecution for such persons on such land will have to either be in tribal or federal courts

The decision seems to recognize that there is a 'reservation in fact' in Oklahoma without discussing any potential impacts this will have outside of the impact on Major Crimes Act on Indian Land.

The Oklahoma AG issued a joint statement with several tribes that they are working on a resolution to present to Congress to resolve this issue. My guess is that after the initial argument on this issue, Oklahoma could see the writing on the wall and started negotiating with the tribes. Announcement is here:

http://www.oag.ok.gov/state-muscogee-creek-cherokee-chickasaw-choctaw-and-seminole-nations-release-joint-statement-in-response-to-scotus-decision-in-mcgirt-case

[ForeverChiefs58]

Imagine if we didn’t let the losers of a war dictate anything

[bdj23]

Tulsa is an awful place.

[Bugeater]

Tulsa is an awful place.They have a cool riverfront. Outside of that, the best thing to do there is leave.

[Chiefspants]

Imagine if we didn’t let the losers of a war dictate anything

We didn't. This was the worst land possible we could have given Native Americans and forced them to take it. We then decided to ignore those "treaties" and take the land back anyway. We're fighting against the dictations of U.S. policymakers of the 1800's here.

[alnorth]

yeah, Oklahoma and Congress needs to negotiate a settlement with the Tribes, because their next move is to stop paying income and sales taxes. On the tribal side of the table though, they probably still need state services and help to maintain infrastructure, so a deal ought to be possible.

[big nasty kcnut]

I guess someone needs to rescue me then.

[BWillie]

Cool. I hope they build a larger casino.

[AdolfOliverBush]

It's time to build a wall around it.

[eDave]

Cheap cigarettes. Yay.

[eDave]

Tulsa is going to become the new Vegas.

Nope.

[BWillie]

What about the Blue Whale of Catoosa? THINK ABOUT THE BLUE WHALE FOR GOD'S SAKE!


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Rt_66_Blue_Whale_Highsmith.jpg/1920px-Rt_66_Blue_Whale_Highsmith.jpg

bwhahahhahha someone knows about that other than me.

I've visited that a couple of times. It's a landmark off of old Route 66. Highly recommend.

[vailpass]

Looks like it's time to play cowboys and indians again.

[vailpass]

Trail of beers

LMAO Winner

[Bugeater]

bwhahahhahha someone knows about that other than me.

I've visited that a couple of times. It's a landmark off of old Route 66. Highly recommend.Did you go down the slide into that nasty looking pond it's in? LMAO

[BWillie]

Did you go down the slide into that nasty looking pond it's in? LMAO

Oh no I wasn't that brave. That would tear your skin right off. But I did climb the ladder to get into the whale head area and took some pictures with it. I don't really understand why I had so much fun at some old whale water park that is now decrepit but I did.

[seclark]

kind of off topic, but if you're interested in reading about the history of the oklahoma osage tribe murders over their oil and the birth of the fbi, "killers of the flower moon", is a great book
sec

[Fish]

"The Battle for the Blue Whale of Catoosa" has a nice ring to it...

[Bugeater]

Oh no I wasn't that brave. That would tear your skin right off. But I did climb the ladder to get into the whale head area and took some pictures with it. I don't really understand why I had so much fun at some old whale water park that is now decrepit but I did.
Hell I climbed up on to the tail for a selfie. And the water looks even more disgusting in this pic. ROFL


https://i.imgur.com/Yj2iJmt.jpg

[displacedinMN]

This is going to get messy.

[seclark]

Hell I climbed up on to the tail for a selfie. And the water looks even more disgusting in this pic. ROFL


https://i.imgur.com/Yj2iJmt.jpg

2,1
sec

[vailpass]

2,1
sec

LMAO

[BigRedChief]

We didn't. This was the worst land possible we could have given Native Americans and forced them to take it. We then decided to ignore those "treaties" and take the land back anyway. We're fighting against the dictations of U.S. policymakers of the 1800's here.We have defeated them on the battlefield. Took their land. Forced them off the good land that we wanted, Gave them the worst land in what is now the USA. Then took it again. Forced them to move again to what is now crappier land and we took the good land again. I think we have behaved like the victors the whole time. We could/should have shown some compassion towards them at many times over the years. We could have done that and still be the big dog winners.

[vailpass]

We have defeated them on the battlefield. Took their land. Forced them off the good land that we wanted, Gave them the worst land in what is now the USA. Then took it again. Forced them to move again to what is now crappier land and we took the good land again. I think we have behaved like the victors the whole time. We could/should have shown some compassion towards them at many times over the years. We could have done that and still be the big dog winners.

We show large amounts of compassion towards them. There are nations where conquered peoples fare much worse than here, if they weren’t simply wiped out.

[Bugeater]

2,1
secI have no idea what the hell this means. And I'm probably better off for it.

[Fish]

I have no idea what the hell this means. And I'm probably better off for it.

Gonna throw a guess out there and say sec would fuck the big sexy blue whale first, then the moderately handsome dude on the left, 2nd. In a "Rate them" quiz kinda way. Which is his choice, and there's nothing wrong with that....

[Bugeater]

Gonna throw a guess out there and say sec would fuck the big sexy blue whale first, then the moderately handsome dude on the left, 2nd. In a "Rate them" quiz kinda way. Which is his choice, and there's nothing wrong with that....Ah, gotcha. Think I'm ok with that. :thumb:

[stevieray]

Gonna throw a guess out there and say sec would **** the big sexy blue whale first, then the moderately handsome dude on the left, 2nd. In a "Rate them" quiz kinda way. Which is his choice, and there's nothing wrong with that....

bravo! well done!

I was going to say it means you're sloppy seconds.

[Bugeater]

I'm just flattered he described me as moderately handsome.

[Fish]

I'm just flattered he described me as moderately handsome.

Well... for a Nebraskan.... :D

[Couch-Potato]

I've driven through it. It's weird as hell, pulling people over to search their cars like the border in Mexico

Just drove through last week. Can confirm I was followed almost all the way through the reservation by a local "cop"?

[Rain Man]

Just drove through last week. Can confirm I was followed almost all the way through the reservation by a local "cop"?

Interesting. I've driven through the Navajo Nation a few times and don't really notice anything different from driving elsewhere. Of course, it's huge and remote, so most of the time you're not near anything but nature.

[RINGLEADER]

If the local tribes are savvy then they'd turn Tulsa into a tax haven.

United States of Amazon.

Seriously, that’s a great idea — plus centrally located for shipping and manufacturing.

[Mr. Wizard]

Interesting. I've driven through the Navajo Nation a few times and don't really notice anything different from driving elsewhere. Of course, it's huge and remote, so most of the time you're not near anything but nature.

"Rocks, these are now our rocks"

[Rain Man]

"Rocks, these are now our rocks"

And a LOT of them.

[BWillie]

Hell I climbed up on to the tail for a selfie. And the water looks even more disgusting in this pic. ROFL


https://i.imgur.com/Yj2iJmt.jpg

It's so famous they even make a soda after that gnarly place.

https://live.staticflickr.com/3845/18259184273_7cf07f61bb_b.jpg

[Rain Man]

It's so famous they even make a soda after that gnarly place.

https://live.staticflickr.com/3845/18259184273_7cf07f61bb_b.jpg

"Made with authentic Catoosa Whale pond water."

[Garcia Bronco]

Good luck with that.

I'll cite the case of Finders vs Keepers.

[PHOG]

United States of Amazon.

Seriously, that’s a great idea — plus centrally located for shipping and manufacturing.
Actually, they are hiring 1500 workers here in Tulsa at Amazon. They may be ahead of the game. :hmmm:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/amazon-expects-to-open-tulsa-fulfillment-center-in-second-quarter-2020/article_924e44ef-c788-5b0a-85b2-afdf6ef08cd5.html

[threebag]

Wellll we all know we ****ed over the Indians. Here lay down your arms. We will give you this worthless land. Binding legal agreements signed. Later it has value, sorry our bad, GTFO

They did give them some nice wool blankets for the winter months

[HolyHandgernade]

Imagine if we didn’t let the losers of a war dictate anything

Yeah! If we did that they would probably try to build statues and monuments to their war heroes, try and rewrite history to bury the real reason and whitewash it as some glorious "Lost Cause" and work in social economic systems to try and maintain their status quo. Can't have that.