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FloridaMan88

08-24-2020, 07:24 AM

Decent read with one really stupid take on King's part...

Link: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/24/patrick-mahomes-chiefs-training-camp-nfl-fmia-peter-king/

KANSAS CITY — Royals outfielder Whit Merrifield, the reigning American League hits leader, is a buddy of Patrick Mahomes. When Mahomes bought a chunk of the baseball team that plays across the parking lot from Arrowhead Stadium, the new owner sent his All-Star employee a cute text. So it seemed logical to ask Merrifield (via Zoom, of course) what his friend Mahomes would be facing, along with his teammates, in the most unusual season they’d ever play.

“You miss that jolt from the fans, of course. You miss that roar when you hit a double in the eighth inning to help your team, and you’re standing on second . . . and that big roar’s not there,” Merrifield said from the Royals clubhouse the other day, before playing a doubleheader against the Reds. Lots of doubleheaders these days. This one was made necessary—as have so many in baseball—because of a positive test for COVID-19 by a member of the Reds.

I went to game one of that twinbill (more about that later) and saw the strangest baseball game I’ve ever seen. In the third inning, Alex Gordon of the Royals hit a fly ball to left-center, and Reds center fielder Shogo Akiyama waved off the left fielder. From about 320 feet away, in an open-air press box, in the hear-a-pin-drop-silence of the stadium, I heard Akiyama yell: “IGOTIT-IGOTIT-IGOTIT!” Weird. It’ll be slightly different for Mahomes’ team, with Kansas City announcing last week it would allow 22 percent of seats to be sold for the season opener Sept. 10 against Houston, with no determination made on attendance for future games. But KC is one of only four NFL teams as of this morning to commit to allowing some fans to attend games this year, so the sounds of silence (or silence with limited phony crowd noise, as baseball is doing) will be common in many NFL venues.

“I mean, it beats the alternative,” Merrifield told me, meaning fanless games are better than no games. “The game is the same, but . . . I’m a golf fan. You see Justin Thomas drain that 50-foot putt [in July at Muirfield]? You expect this big crowd reaction, but no one’s there. You try not to let it affect your performance. But it’s a mental challenge you’ve never faced before.”

I wondered if Merrifield, a month into the MLB experiment of powering through a somnambulant season, had any advice for his football friends.

“Well, it sucks, but the more you bitch about it, the worse it’ll be,” he said. “We’ve got a saying in our clubhouse:

“Embrace the suck.”

This column is not going to be much more about the influence of attendance, or lack thereof, on NFL games this fall. We’ll have time to consider that. I did think that because of the oddness of the sports games we’re seeing, and the guerilla attacks of COVID on the MLB season and the potential of that in football, Merrifield’s take about the effect of an empty park on players was compelling. So there it is. At some point or points this year, teams will have to manufacture the emotion that normally would come from a full house of crazies. “If a team’s out of it, and no one’s in the stands, and that team has to manufacture the emotion you need in a football game, who knows?” said Chiefs GM Brett Veach.

This is more about the defending Super Bowl champs, what I saw in two padded practices last week, what I heard from their key people and what I think of their chances to beat back the Ravens and Niners and Titans and whatever surprise teams there will be in a COVID-plagued season that I increasingly think will be played in full. In brief:

• I liked the spirit of the team and the needed depth at receiver. As we all saw last year, Mahomes’ weaponry is deep, and it needs to be.

• Football Mahomes spent time during a mostly homebound offseason in a new home he bought in Dallas. What’d he do to get better? He studied tape, “trying to diagnose defenses even quicker,” he said.

• Life Mahomes is quite mature for a 24-year-old man who already has won the trifecta of NFL stardom: the MVP, the Super Bowl MVP, the huge contract. I asked him about signing the biggest deal in NFL history, the $472-million pact putting him in the LeBron/Trout/Mookie stratosphere. “For me,” Mahomes said, “it was about building generational wealth, wealth for my kids and my kids’ kids.” Generational wealth. Who says that at 24? When Andy Reid says of Mahomes, “He just gets it,” that’s precisely what he’s talking about.

• Draft Clyde Edwards-Helaire in the first round of your fantasy draft. Believe me, you’ll thank me for that tip on the LSU rookie.

• With sun occasionally reflecting off his coronavirus-protective face shield like a popping flashbulb, Reid looked very into the work of repeating his first Super Bowl title, and sounded a little feisty. “He’s just as energetic as when I first met him [in 2004], working with the Eagles,” Veach said. “Maybe more.”

• The continuity thing is big here. All but two of 22 starters return (though cornerback Bashaud Breeland is here, he’s suspended for the first four games for an NFL rules violation), and 21 of 22 coaches are back. I saw QB coach Mike Kafka showing Mahomes some mechanical tweak about handoffs on the sidelines, Mahomes nodding and soaking it in. To me, those almost imperceptible things show the respect of players for coaches they’ve gone to battle with, and the importance of 96 percent of them returning. Remember Mahomes coming to the sideline in that desperate moment of the Super Bowl, down 10 with eight minutes left on third-and-15, asking offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy: “Do we have time to run Wasp?” They did. The 44-yard heave to Tyreek Hill turned the game around, 2-3 Jet Wasp ended up on T-shirts throughout the Midwest, and the rest is history. Kafka, Bieniemy, Reid, architects of the offense that put up 51, 35 and 31 points in the postseason—all still here. “They think as one mind,” Mahomes told me.

• Concerning desire . . . I can’t see guys like Tyrann Mathieu, 2019’s instant defensive leader, getting fat and happy now that he’s got a ring. Scene from 1-on-1 WR-DB competition Thursday: Wideout Demarcus Robinson ran an eight-yard curl on Mathieu. As the pass got near Robinson, Mathieu powered through him and deflected the pass away. “Woooo!” Matthieu yelled, jumping up and making the “incomplete” motion with his hands.

“It’ll be a special team,” Mahomes said.

Two newsy things I saw at the two practices: a very heavy dose of Edwards-Helaire, who played with the sensational Joe Burrow at LSU last year and now fortunately upgrades to Mahomes. Edwards-Helaire will start and should be an impact player from day one. Also, the dangerous Tyreek Hill looked like he tweaked a groin muscle Thursday on a go route, sprinting for a deep pass. He went inside after that, and still wasn’t practicing Saturday. I hear he’ll be back this week and it’s not serious. But groin and hamstring tweaks are worries with a finely tuned athlete like Hill, so we’ll see how he responds. The Thursday night opener against Houston is 17 days away. This is why depth at receiver is so vital and why, honestly, the Chiefs were seriously considering drafting Alabama speedster Henry Ruggs in April if he plummeted in round one; instead, he went 12th overall to the Raiders. Gluttonous? Maybe. But for Reid and Veach, the idea that you can’t have enough speed is not a cliché.

Regarding Edwards-Helaire, check out the first four plays of 11-on-11 practice Wednesday:

• Mahomes handed to Edwards-Helaire, through the right guard-tackle hole.
• Mahomes handed to Edwards-Helaire, around left end.
• Mahomes handed to Edwards-Helaire, over right guard.
• Mahomes handed to Edwards-Helaire, over right tackle.

On Thursday, Edwards-Helaire was back in the same spotlight. First three snaps of an 11-on-11 period, all handoffs to him. He ran a wheel route out of the backfield, Mahomes threw it slightly behind him, and the kid caught it in stride, one-handed, and headed upfield like he’d done this a thousand times before. Built low to the ground, with powerful-looking legs, sort of like Kareem Hunt, Edwards-Helaire could not have been much more impressive in the two practices I saw.

Now, it’s easy to come to the conclusion that Reid’s going to use Edwards-Helaire as a rookie the same way Reid used Hunt as a rookie in 2017. Hunt touched it 325 times (remember his 246-yards-from-scrimmage demolition of the Patriots on opening night in Foxboro?) in that rookie season, winning the rushing title and becoming an instant threat in the passing game too. But this is practice, scripted from start to finish; maybe this is two days of getting timing down with Edwards-Helaire. But I doubt it’s just that. I say he’ll be a stud, a prime candidate for Offensive Rookie of the Year. He appears a confident and sure runner who can make people miss, a better runner between the tackles than a 5-foot-8, 209-pound guy should be, and a smooth and assured receiver. Veach told me: “He’s on pace to have a big year, to be our primary ballcarrier.”

Watching practice reinforced what I thought of Reid’s playbook with all these toys. One play can have so many tributaries, as I saw on two straight snaps Wednesday. First: Tight end Travis Kelce tight to the formation right, with Mecole Hardman, Hill and Demarcus Robinson all spread right, and Edwards-Helaire in motion almost to the right sideline . . . five receivers to Mahomes’ right. Mahomes overthrew a deep ball. Second: Hardman-Hill-Robinson in a tight bunch to the right, Hill at the tip of the triangle; Hardman and Robinson shimmied at the line, there was some defensive confusion, and Hill blew past Breeland. This time, Mahomes’ deep ball was perfect. Touchdown.

Mindful of so much from the playoffs last winter. On KC’s final 26 non-kneeldown possessions of the 2019 postseason, Mahomes drove to score 16 touchdowns and two field goals . . . 117 points in 11 quarters.

That’s a lot. That’s 39.0 points per game.

So much of that comes from matchup problems created by blinding speed and a great tight end, and running backs with multiplicity. Aaron Rodgers has to watch this team and dream. Or mourn.

Reviewing the Mahomes offseason, and previewing the future, has to start with 2-3 Jet Chip Wasp. I said to Mahomes via videoconference that the 44-yard throw to Hill reminded me a little of the 38-yard Eli Manning drop into the bucket to Mario Manningham down the left sideline in the second Super Bowl win over the Patriots, down by three and backed up with four minutes to play.

“Mine wasn’t as good as Eli’s throw,” Mahomes said. “Eli’s throw was money, right on the sideline. On ours, Tyreek ran a heck of a route where he was able to run across the safety’s face and then back towards the pylon. I was just able to put it out there far enough. We were able to change the momentum of the game and then find a way to get a touchdown.”

There’s a good chance Mahomes, who threw two ugly interceptions and had nothing going for 50 minutes in this game, would have been the goat if the Niners hung on to win 20-10. But great players, truly great players, forget crushing moments and make magical ones. “The biggest thing is I’ll be able to have that memory forever with my brothers, with the guys I went through the adversity of finding a way to win together,” he said. “It’s a big moment that will live on in Chiefs Kingdom forever.”

“How often in the offseason did someone mention 2-3 Jet Chip Wasp?” I asked.

“Dude, it was a ton of people!” he said. “They were making T-shirts! Hats, merchandise, memorabilia!”

[Andy Reid interlude: Maybe 80 minutes after the Super Bowl ended, I was in Andy Reid’s coach’s office in Miami. I asked him to tell me the name of the play and to draw it for me. He was reticent. I said NFL Films or someone will get you to do it, and it’s going to be in Canton one day. Why not let me show the play, and name it, in Football Morning in America in a few hours? All right, he said. “2-3 Jet Chip Wasp,” he called it, and drew a receiver (Hill), in his KC red marker, sprinting at the Niners’ safety and cutting to the left pylon.

“Heck of a play,” he said last week. “Now everybody knows it, because you put it out there. But that’s okay. I did get a free shirt for it.”

Mahomes got to golf at Pebble Beach in California and Bandon Dunes in Oregon before life shut down in March. “The only big thing that I couldn’t do was work out at the gym that I work out at all the time,” he said. “I had to find ways to work out at home. At first, I was in an Airbnb, so we were ordering the resistance bands, and doing pushups and pullups on whatever you can find. It was just the old-school workout: running around the neighborhood with a mask on and doing everything like that. Then I was able to buy a house in Dallas. When I bought a house in Dallas it had a weight room and we had the full set-up.”

Mahomes got politically active too, outraged by the George Floyd murder, playing a starring role in the Michael Thomas Goodell-call-to-action video that woke up the league, partnering with LeBron James and other luminaries in an effort to fight voter suppression, and almost accidentally becoming the team’s NFLPA union rep.

His goal, Mahomes said, in becoming more socially active than most superstar quarterbacks, was “don’t let this moment be forgotten, what happened throughout this offseason. Football’s obviously super-important but helping out the world is more important and we’re gonna try and do that every single day. I think the biggest thing for me to be a part of that video was that obviously I love football but I love trying to make the world a better place even more. I think growing up how I’ve grown up, and having a black dad and a white mom, I never was treated any differently. I feel like no one should be treated any differently, no matter where they come from. I know that with my platform that I have the ability to speak out and people will listen. People will at least listen to what I’m saying. They might not agree with everything that I’m saying but they’re gonna listen. I think having that platform . . . it’s my job and my duty to speak up.”

Kansas City’s a pretty conservative place. I can’t imagine all the people who love this team will love its quarterback saying “Black Lives Matter,” and working so hard for associated causes.

“I mean there’s gonna be people either way,” Mahomes told me. “I’ve noticed that throughout my whole life and I’ve had a great perspective throughout my whole life of seeing my dad play in New York on the Mets. They’re writing bad things about him or people are booing him, and then knowing how to have thick skin and not listening to that, really just understanding what type of person and player that I am, knowing where my values are and how much I care about people more than I care about playing on Sundays. I’m going to go out there and be the best person that I am every single day. Hopefully I have the support of all the fans that have been with me since the beginning. If I don’t, then those fans weren’t true fans of Patrick Mahomes—they were just fans of what I did on the football field. I really respect the people that whether they have the same beliefs with me or not, they’re gonna support me for the person that I am every single day.”

The contract was an ongoing process, negotiated for 18 months before the July 6 announcement. True: Mahomes almost certainly could have made more money (sick as it sounds) than $477 million over 12 years if he signed a shorter deal now and hit the jackpot twice more between now and 2031. Instead, he made two team-friendly decisions that were mindful of the money Tom Brady bypassed over the years in New England so the Patriots could keep more of their own free-agents and shop for others. Mahomes chose to help the Chiefs through tight cap times in the next two years, taking up $30.1 million total over those two years when the team needed to sign vets like Chris Jones. And he chose a deal that averages $32.6 million in the first seven years with a 2026 cap number of $41.95 million—likely to be nowhere near the top of the QB class six years from now.

“Every last dime was not that important to Patrick,” Veach said, “but having a chance to win every year was. He was committed to getting this done, committed to Kansas City. He’s so mature—he gets the big picture. He knows, also, that his ability to make money off the field in the next few years is endless.”

Mahomes wants to invest in other ventures—maybe an NBA team—and is determined to be a champion of local causes in Kansas City too.

One more thing about Mahomes that is Brady-reminiscent: Players want to play on his team. In 2007, Randy Moss told the Patriots in effect: I don’t care what you pay me. Just get me to New England. The Patriots traded a fourth-round pick to pry him from the Raiders, and Moss responded with a league-record 23-receiving-touchdown season, and the Patriots went 16-0. The addition of Kelechi Osemele is not in the same league, but Chiefs needed a guard after Laurent Duvernay-Tardif opted out because of the virus. Osemele, a 2016 all-pro guard with career earnings of $50.9 million, signed for a pittance: one year, $1.19 million. “No way he does that unless he’s playing with a quarterback like Patrick,” said one Chiefs source.

Then came the piece of ownership in the Royals—less than 5 percent, I hear. Mahomes wants to invest in other ventures (maybe an NBA team) and is determined to be a champion of local causes in Kansas City too. He wants to be a different kind of athlete, with investments all over the civic and sporting map. But the Royals investment was borne out of love too. His dad, Pat, was a 12-year MLB veteran, and young Patrick grew up in major-league clubhouses. Alex Rodriguez gave him batting lessons in Texas in 2001, when Patrick was 5 going on 6.

Today, Patrick Mahomes misses baseball. He doesn’t long for it and think, Maybe one day. But he does love the game. “I wanted to do something to be a part of baseball,” he said. “I thought the best way to do that without making everyone in the Chiefs organization mad was to be on the ownership side of it.” That led to more advice from the best player on the Royals.

“Failure is so much a part of baseball,” Mahomes’ buddy Merrifield told me. “He’s pretty good at football. It’s great that he loves it—great for our team and for our city to have him be part of the ownership. But I would strongly encourage him to keep his day job.”

Back to the practice field. Reid, with the combo eyeglasses/plastic shield covering his lower forehead to below his chin, walks over toward the weight room on the far side of the practice complex. He sees a laggard.

“HEY!” he yelled. “We working over there or we talking?! Everyone over here’s working. Over there, you’re talking. LET’S GO!!!”

Back to work for Reid, in his 22nd head-coaching season. The Super Bowl ring was the donut hole in Andy Reid’s coaching résumé. Early in his 21st head-coaching season, he passed the great Chuck Noll to move into sixth place on the all-time coaching list. There was still a “Yeah but” to Reid’s coaching life. I’ve known him since 1995, and I’ve never heard him talk about or feel like not winning the big one tormented him. But as a coaching lifer, how could it not? Now I asked him, “Has your life changed even a little bit by winning one?”

“Well not much,” he said. “Not much. Not much. I still love cheeseburgers.”

The cheeseburger thing is Reid’s go-to chuckle line. If he ate as many as he talked about, his cholesterol would be 9,000. But it gets a laugh, and he sure does seem like a cheeseburger guy. There were those who thought Reid, win or lose in Super Bowl 54, was on the 16th green of his career. Two or three years more, probably. Four max. He’s 62. But he doesn’t sound like he’s in the twilight now. “I’m fired up every day I have a chance to do this,” he said. “I love doing what I’m doing. I get to work for the Hunt family, and I’m around great people. I’m gonna keep doing it till I don’t love it, I guess. Or till they kick me out of the building.”

His personnel trustee, Veach, knows why Reid’s not close to the end. “With Patrick,” Veach said, “Coach knows his mind can be creative with no limitations. He’s got a blank canvas and he can draw anything up because his quarterback can execute anything.”

As one person close to Reid illustrated, say he draws up a 2 by 2 alignment, with Hill and Sammy Watkins on the right side of the formation, and lesser lights Robinson and Hardman split left. Reid figures the safety will shade to the Hill/Watkins side, and if he rolls Mahomes right, there’s a good chance either Hardman or Robinson (or both) will have daylight far to Mahomes’ left. So with Hill and Watkins covered, what to do? Reid trusts Mahomes’ arm and judgment so much that he’s not afraid for him to throw back across the formation to one of his receivers on the left side, even though the book says don’t throw back across the formation.

Reid’s got a quarterback who can make the unlikely happen. Why leave?

The coach, though, is realistic about the prospects to repeat, even with every key player and coach back to try. “We were behind in the playoffs every game last season,” he said. True: Kansas City trailed Houston by 24, Tennessee by seven, San Francisco by 10. But with a great quarterback, you’re never out of it. The Chiefs will be strong contenders to win the Super Bowl this year, and likely for years to come.

But this year, whoever wins the Super Bowl will have to traverse a weird path. Coaches have no idea of the obstacles now, because the virus very likely will dictate them.

At the start of training camp, before the players arrived, Reid gathered his coaches for a preseason meeting. He looked out at the 20 men, all masked, in the room, and suddenly thought of something. “Oh my gosh,” he thought to himself. “Everybody here has a mask on. This is, like, incredible.” Reid forbids phones in all meetings, but he asked if anyone in the room had a phone. The man who needed it, director of team operations Mitch Reynolds, was the only one to raise his hand. Reid told Reynolds to come up to the front of the room, and to take a group photo of the coaches.

“No one else will have it but you guys,” Reid told the coaches. “Save it. Save it for your grandkids. Show them this photo—show them what we went through. This is a very unique time.”

King's stupid take...

I think I appreciate Kansas City owner Clark Hunt and president Mark Donovan doing a deep dive into all aspects of their team name. No more headdresses at home games, no more face paint with native themes, and a review of the “Tomahawk Chop” or “Arrowhead Chop” and the accompanying sing-songy whoa-whoa-whoa from the fans. This nickname is tricky to me. “Chiefs” is more honorific than Washington’s banned name, but it’s still a nickname and a mascot, which so many Native Americans oppose. I’m considering not using the KC nickname in my writing either. Thinking about it.

TimeForWasp

08-24-2020, 07:35 AM

Rasputin

08-24-2020, 07:43 AM

Why wouldn't the "Cowboys" be more offensive than Chiefs or Redskins? Why aren't people up and arms about the Cowboys? Cowboys drove off Indians and settled the land. Fuck the Cowboys.

493rd

08-24-2020, 07:50 AM

Why wouldn't the "Cowboys" be more offensive than Chiefs or Redskins? Why aren't people up and arms about the Cowboys? Cowboys drove off Indians and settled the land. **** the Cowboys.

Great take. But Cowboys doesn’t fit their narrative so it goes unsaid. Er...how about the Vikings? I’m sure there has to be at least one Norwegian person pissed about the name.

2bikemike

08-24-2020, 07:57 AM

I am so fired up for this weird ass season to begin!

FloridaMan88

08-24-2020, 08:04 AM

If you aren't going to use "Chiefs", then you have to make a uniform decision not to use any Indian-related sports nickname... Blackhawks, Braves, Seminoles, Indians, etc.

I think most reasonable minds can agree that there is a difference between "Redskins" and those other nicknames.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 08:08 AM

Great take. But Cowboys doesn’t fit their narrative so it goes unsaid. Er...how about the Vikings? I’m sure there has to be at least one Norwegian person pissed about the name.

There’s probably quite a few mainland Catholics and other European coastal settlers that should be at least. I mean they’re named after a group of people synonymous with “rape and pillage”.

Rasputin

08-24-2020, 08:12 AM

Great take. But Cowboys doesn’t fit their narrative so it goes unsaid. Er...how about the Vikings? I’m sure there has to be at least one Norwegian person pissed about the name.

Raiders are all about rape and pillaging and rape and plundering but that's not offensive name.

Edit: The rape goes for the Dolphins too. I'm sure Hank Hill still is upset about it.

Chris Meck

08-24-2020, 10:09 AM

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 10:16 AM

Raiders are all about rape and pillaging and rape and plundering but that's not offensive name.

Edit: The rape goes for the Dolphins too. I'm sure Hank Hill still is upset about it.

ROFL :clap:

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 10:17 AM

What do you think a cowboy is?

A person who kills Chiefs, Braves, Indians, and other native Americans. It’s 2020 man, get with the program.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 10:18 AM

Lol and people like Mecca’s dumbass think they won’t come for the name eventually

Hammock Parties

08-24-2020, 10:19 AM

39 points per game :drool:

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 10:21 AM

Lions kill Africans. Gotta go. Bears kill indigenous people in Alaska. Gotta go. Tigers kill people from India, and no I won’t call them Indians. Gotta go.

49ers were usurpers and displaced Mexican people. Gone. Seahawks logo? Cultural appropriation. Gone. Broncos? Exploits the beautiful and endangered wild horses of the American west. Gone.

It’s 2020, they all have to go.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 10:23 AM

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 10:24 AM

The sad part is those people would see how ridiculous this sounds, but they won’t see how ridiculous it is to say “Chiefs” is offensive.

The real sad part is that you could probably find people in this country that would AGREE with what I posted.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 10:27 AM

The real sad part is that you could probably find people in this country that would AGREE with what I posted.

Oh I have no doubt there are some.

Sorce

08-24-2020, 10:37 AM

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 10:39 AM

They also are trying to grow in the UK. The name patriots is probably hurtful to them so we should change that as well.

Yep.

BossChief

08-24-2020, 10:58 AM

Just the name football is probably offensive to hard core soccer players everywhere.

MahomesMagic

08-24-2020, 11:14 AM

Glad we didn't get Ruggs.

Chief Roundup

08-24-2020, 11:22 AM

What do you think a cowboy is?

Any person, regardless of color, that wears a cowboy hat and or cowboy boots. They may or may not wrangle cattle. They may or may not ride a horse. They may or may not live on a ranch. They usually drive a pickup but don't have to.

But more to the point of todays times. Any kid that ever played cowboys and Indians.

Beef Supreme

08-24-2020, 11:25 AM

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.fansided.com%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F276%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F12%2F3Fg6xWp.gif&f=1&nofb=1

ROYC75

08-24-2020, 11:50 AM

Gosh Damn, had to take 3 breaks while reading that, freaking long ass article.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 11:50 AM

It’s 2020, they all have to go.

I think the Chiefs brass have decided that they're going to fight to keep the name intact but in order to do so, they'll need to remove all of the Native American imagery, including fans wearing headresses, war paint and the chop.

"Chiefs" is not offensive. Americans use that word daily, whether it's the Commander-In-Chief or the Joint Chiefs or Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, etc. and so on.

It's the imagery at issue, which Mark Donovan is attempting to remove so that the name can be used going forward.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 12:00 PM

staylor26

08-24-2020, 12:02 PM

That's what I think but apparently that's a terrible take around here...

No, that’s clearly what the Chiefs are attempting to do, and as I said before I understand it.

What YOU don’t seem to get is that the mob doesn’t fucking care what you do.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 12:03 PM

Just like at the moment the Blackhawks benefit from hockey being less mainstream but the day they're noticed someone is going apeshit about their logo.

Donger

08-24-2020, 12:08 PM

But more to the point of todays times. Any kid that ever played cowboys and Indians.

That's "Indigenous People."

KChiefs1

08-24-2020, 12:09 PM

Peter King is a libtard.

TribalElder

08-24-2020, 12:26 PM

I hope we go undefeated so they have to constantly say Chiefs everywhere forever

fuck cancel culture

Frazod

08-24-2020, 12:29 PM

Well, so much for ever reading anything King has to say again. 4321

Pitt Gorilla

08-24-2020, 12:51 PM

"He’s 62. But he doesn’t sound like he’s in the twilight now. “I’m fired up every day I have a chance to do this,” he said. “I love doing what I’m doing. I get to work for the Hunt family, and I’m around great people. I’m gonna keep doing it till I don’t love it, I guess. Or till they kick me out of the building.”

His personnel trustee, Veach, knows why Reid’s not close to the end. “With Patrick,” Veach said, “Coach knows his mind can be creative with no limitations. He’s got a blank canvas and he can draw anything up because his quarterback can execute anything.”

As one person close to Reid illustrated, say he draws up a 2 by 2 alignment, with Hill and Sammy Watkins on the right side of the formation, and lesser lights Robinson and Hardman split left. Reid figures the safety will shade to the Hill/Watkins side, and if he rolls Mahomes right, there’s a good chance either Hardman or Robinson (or both) will have daylight far to Mahomes’ left. So with Hill and Watkins covered, what to do? Reid trusts Mahomes’ arm and judgment so much that he’s not afraid for him to throw back across the formation to one of his receivers on the left side, even though the book says don’t throw back across the formation.

Reid’s got a quarterback who can make the unlikely happen. Why leave?"

https://media1.giphy.com/media/QjTAjja6qYQhi/200.gif

Marcellus

08-24-2020, 12:55 PM

Dunerdr

08-24-2020, 01:05 PM

If it stops here I see no issue with it. It just seems like once you give them an inch they just keep on wanting more. (Insert woman joke here)

But whut aboot are tattoos?

Halfcan

08-24-2020, 01:10 PM

Peter King has jumped on the Chiefs bandwagon because of Mahomes. He can never write an article without including several back-handed jabs at the organization.

What a dick.

Imon Yourside

08-24-2020, 01:24 PM

The Kansas City Mahomes

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 01:26 PM

I think the Chiefs brass have decided that they're going to fight to keep the name intact but in order to do so, they'll need to remove all of the Native American imagery, including fans wearing headresses, war paint and the chop.

"Chiefs" is not offensive. Americans use that word daily, whether it's the Commander-In-Chief or the Joint Chiefs or Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, etc. and so on.

It's the imagery at issue, which Mark Donovan is attempting to remove so that the name can be used going forward.

Most prominent football writer in America is contemplating erasing 'Chiefs' from his lexicon and we're still trying to pretend like anything this organization does will keep the wolves from their door.

By your own calculus, 'Arrowhead' is on the way out. It's a facially benign word but the connotation is clearly an attempt to utilize native american imagery as part of the overall theme.

Keep on telling yourself that just giving 'em a little bit will do anything but chum the waters. History be damned.

Clark gave 'em their inch and now Peter King's gonna have us as the "Kansas City Indigenous Peoples" by year's end.

Aces...

Halfcan

08-24-2020, 01:39 PM

Most prominent football writer in America is contemplating erasing 'Chiefs' from his lexicon and we're still trying to pretend like anything this organization does will keep the wolves from their door.

By your own calculus, 'Arrowhead' is on the way out. It's a facially benign word but the connotation is clearly an attempt to utilize native american imagery as part of the overall theme.

Keep on telling yourself that just giving 'em a little bit will do anything but chum the waters. History be damned.

Clark gave 'em their inch and now Peter King's gonna have us as the "Kansas City Indigenous Peoples" by year's end.

Aces...

We have the best logo in the NFL- we won't be changing it. If someone is offended by "Arrowhead" they have serious mental issues.

That is our stadium name, our logo which is worth millions, and the address.

We are not changing Chiefs either. Lamar picked the name and logo. It is our history and sacred to this city.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 01:46 PM

We have the best logo in the NFL- we won't be changing it. If someone is offended by "Arrowhead" they have serious mental issues.

That is our stadium name, our logo which is worth millions, and the address.

We are not changing Chiefs either. Lamar picked the name and logo. It is our history and sacred to this city.

You're underestimating the industry wide reverence of Peter King. It's weird, but its inescapable. Every football writer in the country treats that guy like he's somewhere between Jesus and Bruce Springsteen.

You're also overlooking how much sportswriters love looking noble.

King's gonna get backlash from Chiefs fans, many of whom will give him that backlash in a less than cogent, well-spoken manner. And it's only going to convince him that he's right. And once he does it, other sportswriters will follow suit.

In a few years, Chiefs will be every bit as high up the list as anything outside of Redskins. And frankly, the "Chiefs is the same as calling a black guy 'boy' or a young guy 'sport' - its history is intentionally demeaning" argument has already started.

Tell yourself what you want, but if Peter King starts referring to us as the Kansas City Football Club, it's all over but the crying. And that all happened because Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan gave into the woke mob.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 01:46 PM

Most prominent football writer in America is contemplating erasing 'Chiefs' from his lexicon and we're still trying to pretend like anything this organization does will keep the wolves from their door.

He stopped saying "Redskins" back in 2013, so yeah, this is nothing new for King.

By your own calculus, 'Arrowhead' is on the way out. It's a facially benign word but the connotation is clearly an attempt to utilize native american imagery as part of the overall theme.

Agreed. I expect the arrowhead on the helmet to disappear at some point soon, too.

Keep on telling yourself that just giving 'em a little bit will do anything but chum the waters. History be damned.

Clark gave 'em their inch and now Peter King's gonna have us as the "Kansas City Indigenous Peoples" by year's end.

Aces...

I don't think Clark had a choice. He certainly didn't want to end up with the kind of massive distraction the name Redskins caused this year.

Kansas City fans that have known for years or even decades that the name Chiefs was to honor H. Roe Bartle but the imagery says otherwise, so the Chiefs organization is shedding the Native American imagery with the hope that will save the name.

If it's determined at some point in time that the name Chiefs needs to be replaced, I'd rather they follow the Redskins model and just go with The Kansas City Football Club while retaining the colors and logo, which obviously, would require them to change the arrowhead to a circle (or whatever), rather than a completely new name.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 01:47 PM

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 01:50 PM

Tell yourself what you want, but if Peter King starts referring to us as the Kansas City Football Club, it's all over but the crying. And that all happened because Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan gave into the woke mob.

They didn't "give in".

They're doing their best to save the name by removing NA imagery because if the decision was to "Ignore the mob", it was absolutely inevitable that it was going to cause a major distraction at time when the Chiefs are at their zenith as a franchise.

Tribal Warfare

08-24-2020, 01:51 PM

The Chiefs won't change their name, unless sponsorship pulls out

Money talks and bullshit walks

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 01:51 PM

If it's determined at some point in time that the name Chiefs needs to be replaced, I'd rather they follow the Redskins model and just go with The Kansas City Football Club while retaining the colors and logo, which obviously, would require them to change the arrowhead to a circle (or whatever), rather than a completely new name.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/b57b74e97bdb4dff46d323323be5a0e28dbf42c9/c=0-37-998-601/local/-/media/2016/01/21/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/635889918976969364-Bob-2.jpg?width=660&height=373&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

"Well if you think it's inevitable..."

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 01:52 PM

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 01:54 PM

"Well if you think it's inevitable..."

I don't know what the picture of Bob Knight is suppose to imply but if you look at what's happening around the country, it's clearly inevitable that the name and imagery were going to come under serious fire at some point soon.

Clark and Mark Donovan are just trying to get ahead of the impending outcry.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 01:54 PM

The Chiefs won't change their name, unless sponsorship pulls out

Money talks and bullshit walks

Sponsors will eventually pull out. Do you work for a Fortune 500 company by chance? One of the Chiefs’ big sponsors is already headed down a path that ends in all things Native American being removed.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 01:56 PM

Can we be the Red Wolves? I’ll settle for that. Hopefully Washington doesn’t use it. Our mascot is a wolf already :shrug:

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 01:57 PM

staylor26

08-24-2020, 01:57 PM

I don't know what the picture of Bob Knight is suppose to imply but if you look at what's happening around the country, it's clearly inevitable that the name and imagery were going to come under serious fire at some point soon.

Clark and Mark Donovan are just trying to get ahead of the impending outcry.

Damned if you do damned if you don’t.

I understand what they’re doing, but by admitting the problem in the first place, the name change is absolutely inevitable at this point.

This is why we need to look a the bigger picture. Reasonable people have to come together and say enough is enough at some point. It’s the only way.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 01:58 PM

It might take a decade but don’t kid yourself, a lot is going to change about this team that many people won’t like. It’s still going to happen.

Oh, it'll happen far sooner than a decade.

The first step was to ban Indian headdresses, Warpaint and The Chop. Next will be "Arrowhead Stadium" followed by a redesign of the helmet.

I'll be surprised if the helmet isn't redesigned before the start of the 2022 season and maybe even 2021.

Clark just dropped a half a billion dollar contract on Mahomes while extending his best offensive and defensive players. He's not going to let Native American imagery get in the way of his impending dynasty.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 01:59 PM

Damned if you do damned if you don’t.

I understand what they’re doing, but by admitting the problem in the first place, the name change is absolutely inevitable at this point.

This is why we need to look a the bigger picture. Reasonable people have to come together and say enough is enough at some point. It’s the only way.

Unfortunately, "Reasonable people" are far outnumbered by the Twitter crowd.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:00 PM

Unfortunately, "Reasonable people" are far outnumbered by the Twitter crowd.

Numbers wise? No way.

That’s why this is ridiculous. The many are giving into the ridiculous demands of the few. There are many more reasonable normal people than SJW’s. They just don’t care until the mob comes for them personally.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:02 PM

Numbers wise? No way.

That’s why this is ridiculous. The many are giving into the ridiculous demands of the few. There are many more reasonable normal people than SJW’s. They just don’t care until the mob comes for them personally.

The problem is, is if the few represent millions of dollars in sponsorship money the options dry up quickly.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:02 PM

It refers to the "If rape is inevitable, you might as well just sit back and enjoy it..." quote from his Connie Chung interview years ago.

The fatalism on display is just staggering.

You guys are a little more removed from today's climate than I am, so I've prepared myself for the inevitable for a few years now.

And to be completely honest, I couldn't care less about the Chop, Warpaint, headdresses and any other Native American imagery. I don't really care about Arrowhead stadium, either because just like the Mets and "Citi Financial Stadium", the fans just call it "The New Shea".

But holy shit, I am completely opposed to changing the name and by removing the imagery, I think that Clark will win this battle or at least be able to prolong it for a while.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:03 PM

I don't know what the picture of Bob Knight is suppose to imply but if you look at what's happening around the country, it's clearly inevitable that the name and imagery were going to come under serious fire at some point soon.

Clark and Mark Donovan are just trying to get ahead of the impending outcry.

King says nothing about it but/for the Chiefs making it a story.

You think it's mere coincidence that he throws it in there as a pot-shot a mere week after the Chiefs announced the change?

By 'trying to get ahead of it' they've simply put blood in the water. They've done nothing but accelerate it and have essentially signed the death warrant of the name.

But hey - it'll probably give Clark a really nice reason to sell the naming rights. "Welcome to beautiful Cerner Stadium to see the {random insignificant mammal with a ruddy fur color} take on the Denver Broncos!!"

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:03 PM

The problem is, is if the few represent millions of dollars in sponsorship money the options dry up quickly.

Yes because those reasonable people are currently not fighting back.

This is really simple and an inevitability. If we want it to stop, we have to come together. We absolutely outnumber them.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:05 PM

Numbers wise? No way.

Yes, they are and more importantly, corporations take the Twitter mob very, very, very seriously.

That’s why this is ridiculous. The many are giving into the ridiculous demands of the few. There are many more reasonable normal people than SJW’s. They just don’t care until the mob comes for them personally.

I didn't state that it wasn't ridiculous. But look around the country and tell me what you see, then tell me that Twitter doesn't matter.

I don't like it but it is what it is. Hopefully, removing the imagery is enough, at least for a little while...

sedated

08-24-2020, 02:05 PM

I hope we go undefeated so they have to constantly say Chiefs everywhere forever

**** cancel culture

Have a fit about "cancel culture" while simultaneously refusing to buy Nikes or watch Nascar.

And apparently now people are "cancelling" Peter King:

Well, so much for ever reading anything King has to say again. 4321

Not attempting to be a political comment, just funny to watch both sides do the same exact thing and then get red-faced angry after looking in a proverbial mirror.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:06 PM

King says nothing about it but/for the Chiefs making it a story.

You think it's mere coincidence that he throws it in there as a pot-shot a mere week after the Chiefs announced the change?

By 'trying to get ahead of it' they've simply put blood in the water. They've done nothing but accelerate it and have essentially signed the death warrant of the name.

But hey - it'll probably give Clark a really nice reason to sell the naming rights. "Welcome to beautiful Cerner Stadium to see the {random insignificant mammal with a ruddy fur color} take on the Denver Broncos!!"

I feel like no matter what you do, the end result basically is the same, you can do what the Chiefs are doing and try to save the name or you can do what the Redskins did and them ignoring it didn't save their name, they held on for what 7 years and then finally they were basically given no other options.

Either way it likely ends the same there.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:07 PM

Yes, they are and more importantly, corporations take the Twitter mob very, very, very seriously.

I didn't state that it wasn't ridiculous. But look around the country and tell me what you see, then tell me that Twitter doesn't matter.

I don't like it but it is what it is. Hopefully, removing the imagery is enough, at least for a little while...

They take the Twitter mob seriously because they’re the outspoken ones. They’re the only ones that are fighting. The longer we let that happen and sit back and do nothing, the more insane this will get.

There’s no stopping this without fighting back and saying enough is enough.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:07 PM

Numbers wise? No way.

That’s why this is ridiculous. The many are giving into the ridiculous demands of the few. There are many more reasonable normal people than SJW’s. They just don’t care until the mob comes for them personally.

It’s not just the Twitter crowd in my mind, it’s the great lengths that corporations are going to to appease those crowds. I’m not going to go into here for various reasons but I know first hand that corporate internal spending has gone up, in some cases by 100’s of millions of dollars, in 2020 in respond to public outcry. I don’t normally talk about work here and I’m not going to start now but let’s just say that “social responsibility” internal messaging went from being infrequent a few years ago to multiple times a day the past few months. Large corporations are amassing billions of dollars and armies of people to “fight the fight”. They WILL start pulling sponsorships, and at that point teams will either comply or die.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:08 PM

King says nothing about it but/for the Chiefs making it a story.

You think it's mere coincidence that he throws it in there as a pot-shot a mere week after the Chiefs announced the change?

By 'trying to get ahead of it' they've simply put blood in the water. They've done nothing but accelerate it and have essentially signed the death warrant of the name.

But hey - it'll probably give Clark a really nice reason to sell the naming rights. "Welcome to beautiful Cerner Stadium to see the {random insignificant mammal with a ruddy fur color} take on the Denver Broncos!!"

Except that the name Chiefs has been on these people's radar for nearly a decade.

Each and every time the word Redskins has been referred to as derogatory, it's inevitable that the Chiefs name and logo has also been thrown into the conversation as derogatory.

And yes, they needed to get ahead of this now, not in-season or in the post season.

Now.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:09 PM

It’s not just the Twitter crowd in my mind, it’s the great lengths that corporations are going to to appease those crowds. I’m not going to go into here for various reasons but I know first hand that corporate internal spending has gone up, in some cases by 100’s of millions of dollars, in 2020 in respond to public outcry. I don’t normally talk about work here and I’m not going to start now but let’s just say that “social responsibility” internal messaging went from being infrequent a few years ago to multiple times a day the past few months. Large corporations are amassing billions of dollars and armies of people to “fight the fight”. They WILL start pulling sponsorships, and at that point teams will either comply or die.

The corporations are responding how they think they’re supposed to respond.

If reasonable people are just going to sit back and say nothing, it’s the Twitter mobs that the corporations are going to give into every single time.

I understand the point you guys are making about corporations. My point is the only way to stop it is for normal people to come together and say enough is enough.

If they do, the corporations will listen because we outnumber them.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:11 PM

They take the Twitter mob seriously because they’re the outspoken ones. They’re the only ones that are fighting. The longer we let that happen and sit back and do nothing, the more insane this will get.

Other teams have either already lost or are facing the same challenge as the Chiefs.

There’s no stopping this without fighting back and saying enough is enough.

That's just not going to happen. The Chiefs know it and are putting policies in place in the hope of saving the name.

Time will tell but I'm not very positive about the outcome.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:12 PM

They take the Twitter mob seriously because they’re the outspoken ones. They’re the only ones that are fighting. The longer we let that happen and sit back and do nothing, the more insane this will get.

There’s no stopping this without fighting back and saying enough is enough.

It’s moved on from appeasement for profit. A lot of large corporations see themselves as agents for social progress and have woven it into their corporate persona. They believe they are now in the position to shape society rather than accept changes in societal opinion in an effort to make money.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:13 PM

I feel like no matter what you do, the end result basically is the same, you can do what the Chiefs are doing and try to save the name or you can do what the Redskins did and them ignoring it didn't save their name, they held on for what 7 years and then finally they were basically given no other options.

Either way it likely ends the same there.

And this right here is the damn problem.

The fact that people like you will sit there and say there's any kind of equivalence between 'Redskins' and 'Chiefs' and therefore we need to just accept the inevitable is absolutely asinine.

You've lost the war before you've fired a shot because you've granted them the framing they need to have any kind of foothold at all. You've granted them the ground they wanted to fight from.

So yeah, you're gonna lose.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:13 PM

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:14 PM

It’s moved on from appeasement for profit. A lot of large corporations see themselves as agents for social progress and have woven it into their corporate persona. They believe they are now in the position to shape society rather than accept changes in societal opinion in an effort to make money.

Ok so let them “get woke, go broke” themselves to death if that’s the case.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:14 PM

Except that the name Chiefs has been on these people's radar for nearly a decade.

Each and every time the word Redskins has been referred to as derogatory, it's inevitable that the Chiefs name and logo has also been thrown into the conversation as derogatory.

And yes, they needed to get ahead of this now, not in-season or in the post season.

Now.

They 'got ahead of it' by cutting their arm and jumping into the shark tank.

These idea that they've gained any additional leverage or latitude is the fundamental failure of the stance you and Mecca are taking. They haven't. Not one.

Same people that were pissed about "Chiefs" 2 weeks ago are pissed today. And now they have a foothold.

They've accomplished nothing apart from put it in the media cycle and on Peter Kings radar.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:15 PM

The corporations are responding how they think they’re supposed to respond.

If reasonable people are just going to sit back and say nothing, it’s the Twitter mobs that the corporations are going to give into every single time.

I understand the point you guys are making about corporations. My point is the only way to stop it is for normal people to come together and say enough is enough.

If they do, the corporations will listen because we outnumber them.

The problem with that is the people who hate it are generally older people. There are all sorts of studies that basically say that Gen Z and
Millennials think punishing people or institutions over offensive views is something that should be done, while older people like baby boomers or gen xers aren't into it.

It's big in the 18-34 demo and no company is just going to discount that demo, it's usually the one everyone wants.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:15 PM

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:15 PM

And this right here is the damn problem.

The fact that people like you will sit there and say there's any kind of equivalence between 'Redskins' and 'Chiefs' and therefore we need to just accept the inevitable is absolutely asinine.

You've lost the war before you've fired a shot because you've granted them the framing they need to have any kind of foothold at all. You've granted them the ground they wanted to fight from.

So yeah, you're gonna lose.

It's not Mecca's fault that people have claimed that the Chiefs, Indians, Braves and Redskins are derogatory, it's today's society that's deemed them so.

Acknowledging the issue isn't the same as supporting the issue.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:16 PM

Sorry man, this is a pipe dream at this point in time.

Teams cannot afford to lose corporate sponsors during a regular season, let alone, during a pandemic.

Dane, I’m talking big picture here not just about the teams, sorry that I wasn’t clear enough about that.

This isn’t exclusive to football, sports, or anything. This woke ideology has infiltrated EVERYTHING to to point that they’re now indoctrinating kids with it in schools.

This is SO much bigger than the Chiefs and a name change.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:16 PM

And this right here is the damn problem.

The fact that people like you will sit there and say there's any kind of equivalence between 'Redskins' and 'Chiefs' and therefore we need to just accept the inevitable is absolutely asinine.

You've lost the war before you've fired a shot because you've granted them the framing they need to have any kind of foothold at all. You've granted them the ground they wanted to fight from.

So yeah, you're gonna lose.

You're gonna lose because of money, every team in the league would change their name if they couldn't get any corporate sponsors or sell any merch.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:16 PM

They 'got ahead of it' by cutting their arm and jumping into the shark tank.

These idea that they've gained any additional leverage or latitude is the fundamental failure of the stance you and Mecca are taking. They haven't. Not one.

Same people that were pissed about "Chiefs" 2 weeks ago are pissed today. And now they have a foothold.

They've accomplished nothing apart from put it in the media cycle and on Peter Kings radar.

So, what are you suggesting? That Clark Hunt pulls a Daniel Snyder?

That was NEVER going to happen.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:17 PM

It's not Mecca's fault that people have claimed that the Chiefs, Indians, Braves and Redskins are derogatory, it's today's society that's deemed them so.

Acknowledging the issue isn't the same as supporting the issue.

It's Clark Hunt's fault for not standing up and loudly drawing out the demarcation.

The cycle around this never became how 'Chiefs' is different from 'Redskins' - it simply became 'Chiefs recognize problematic imagery...'

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:17 PM

Ok so let them “get woke, go broke” themselves to death if that’s the case.

They won’t go broke, that’s the problem. The media is pushing the same narrative. Local, state, and federal agencies are pushing the same narrative. Corporations need those dollars much more than they need consumer dollars. You’re kidding yourself if you think some kind of boycott is going to save things. We are past that point.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:17 PM

It's not Mecca's fault that people have claimed that the Chiefs, Indians, Braves and Redskins are derogatory, it's today's society that's deemed them so.

Acknowledging the issue isn't the same as supporting the issue.

I personally think it's over the top but it is today's reality, I'd rather address it as the issue it is than pretend it isn't there or that we can get some outcome that is extremely unlikely.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:18 PM

This is SO much bigger than the Chiefs and a name change.

That's a different subject altogether.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:18 PM

It's Clark Hunt's fault for not standing up and loudly drawing out the demarcation.

The cycle around this never became how 'Chiefs' is different from 'Redskins' - it simply became 'Chiefs recognize problematic imagery...'

Dan Snyder responded by telling everyone to fuck off, what did it get him?

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:18 PM

It's Clark Hunt's fault for not standing up and loudly drawing out the demarcation.

Clark was never going to die on that hill

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:19 PM

You're gonna lose because of money, every team in the league would change their name if they couldn't get any corporate sponsors or sell any merch.

Yeah - Nike's gonna stop selling Mahomes jerseys...

No corporate entities are going to want their name attached to the franchise that employs the most valuable person in pro sports.

Please - this was THE time to make your stand. Establish the propriety of the name and stand it apart from Washington's.

Clark and Donovan didn't.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:19 PM

Your argument is that “normal” people need to stand up against it. Ask yourself what “normal” means in society today. The amount of societal pressure to be anything but “normal” is overwhelming. We live in a tribal society. Be prepared to be abused into submission should you stand up for something like this.

The majority of people I know and I’ve met, whether it be real life or on the internet like this, do not subscribe to woke ideology and they all hate this stuff to one extent or another.

That’s what I mean by “normal” people. These SJW Twitter mobs are a very small % of the population. The rest of the population just either doesn’t care or is scared to fight back.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:19 PM

Dane, I’m talking big picture here not just about the teams, sorry that I wasn’t clear enough about that.

This isn’t exclusive to football, sports, or anything. This woke ideology has infiltrated EVERYTHING to to point that they’re now indoctrinating kids with it in schools.

This is SO much bigger than the Chiefs and a name change.

You openly admit that this ideology has infiltrated every facet of society, including teaching it to children (incrementally for the last 2-3 decades mind you) and yet you’re advocating simply resisting it? Do you honestly believe that’s realistic?

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:20 PM

That's a different subject altogether.

I really don’t think it is.

This all comes from the same place/people. They’ve infected literally everything.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:20 PM

Yeah - Nike's gonna stop selling Mahomes jerseys...

No corporate entities are going to want their name attached to the franchise that employs the most valuable person in pro sports.

Please - this was THE time to make your stand. Establish the propriety of the name and stand it apart from Washington's.

Clark and Donovan didn't.

Amazon pulled all the Redskins merch, do you realize how much that one thing hurts them?

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:21 PM

Clark was never going to die on that hill

Very clearly.

My point is he didn't even have to die on it - he could've won the damn thing. He has more leverage in this argument than he's had at any time in the history of his franchise.

He could've easily had a 'here and no further' moment and he failed. So no, he's not gonna die on the hill now, he's just going to surrender it willingly.

That doesn't strike me as worthy of praise.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:21 PM

I really don’t think it is.

This all comes from the same place/people. They’ve infected literally everything.

If you think that then how can you think simply resisting it will do anything at all?

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:21 PM

The majority of people I know and I’ve met, whether it be real life or on the internet like this, do not subscribe to woke ideology and they all hate this stuff to one extent or another.

That’s what I mean by “normal” people. These SJW Twitter mobs are a very small % of the population. The rest of the population just either doesn’t care or is scared to fight back.

The Twitter mobs have nearly endless funding. “Normal” people lost this battle before most people even knew there was a battle.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:21 PM

You openly admit that this ideology has infiltrated every facet of society, including teaching it to children (incrementally for the last 2-3 decades mind you) and yet you’re advocating simply resisting it? Do you honestly believe that’s realistic?

Fine just let them have it all then? So DJ is right. If you’re going to get raped might as well enjoy it, right?

That’s your answer?

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:21 PM

The Twitter mobs have nearly endless funding. “Normal” people lost this battle before most people even knew there was a battle.

You can’t win a battle if you do nothing.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:22 PM

The majority of people I know and I’ve met, whether it be real life or on the internet like this, do not subscribe to woke ideology and they all hate this stuff to one extent or another.

That’s what I mean by “normal” people. These SJW Twitter mobs are a very small % of the population. The rest of the population just either doesn’t care or is scared to fight back.

Your definition of "normal" people all depends on geography.

In my city, the "normal" people think that names like Indians, Redskins and Chiefs are derogatory.

And trust me when I say while the people in my city may not be on Twitter posting their thoughts on this issue, they're doing it in schools, the workplace, home, etc.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:22 PM

Amazon pulled all the Redskins merch, do you realize how much that one thing hurts them?

Do you realize how fucking ridiculous it is to compare Redskins and Chiefs without so much as tilting an eyebrow?

You keep drawing a false equivalence and at the same time applauding the Chiefs for an action that you're conceding does nothing to address it.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:23 PM

Your definition of "normal" people all depends on geography.

In my city, the "normal" people think that names like Indians, Redskins and Chiefs are derogatory.

Then you probably need to get the hell out of there.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:24 PM

You can’t win a battle if you do nothing.

The battle has already been lost.

You guys just didn't know it until recently, if not until today.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:24 PM

Do you realize how fucking ridiculous it is to compare Redskins and Chiefs without so much as tilting an eyebrow?

You keep drawing a false equivalence and at the same time applauding the Chiefs for an action that you're conceding does nothing to address it.

I'm using that comparison in the sense that all it takes is for sponsors not to want to be associated with you to leave you with no choice.

If that happened to any other team, Chiefs, Cowboys, Raiders etc etc, they'd all change names too, that is the point I'm making.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:24 PM

You can’t win a battle if you do nothing.

There’s nothing to do but sit back and watch. The fight is all but over. The real fight happened years ago. We aren’t going back from what is happening today. It’s only going to accelerate from here.

That’s fatalistic sure but it’s also acknowledging reality.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:24 PM

Then you probably need to get the hell out of there.

You can check out but you can never leave

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:25 PM

Then you probably need to get the hell out of there.

So he can't be a fan of the Chiefs because of where he lives, da fuck?

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:25 PM

Your definition of "normal" people all depends on geography.

In my city, the "normal" people think that names like Indians, Redskins and Chiefs are derogatory.

And trust me when I say while the people in my city may not be on Twitter posting their thoughts on this issue, they're doing it in schools, the workplace, home, etc.

Your city's full of smug, oblivious assholes that have let their city turn be overrun by squalor while simultaneously pricing out the working class and would gladly see the rest of world succumb to the same crap.

No - I'm disinclined to accept your version of 'normal'.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:26 PM

Then you probably need to get the hell out of there.

The battle has already been lost.

You guys just didn't know it until recently, if not until today.

Sorry staylor - the left coast has spoken.

Get on the train or be run over by it, buddy...

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:26 PM

There’s nothing to do but sit back and watch. The fight is all but over. The real fight happened years ago. We aren’t going back from what is happening today. It’s only going to accelerate from here.

That’s fatalistic sure but it’s also acknowledging reality.

Yea there isn't a battle anymore, we went from a society in the early 2000's of being incredibly insensitive to where we are today where it swung way to far the other way and as of now there isn't any going back.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:26 PM

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:28 PM

So he can't be a fan of the Chiefs because of where he lives, da fuck?

:facepalm:

How the fuck did you get that from what I said?

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:28 PM

:facepalm:

How the fuck did you get that from what I said?

Read that wrong, that's on me.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:29 PM

Sorry staylor - the left coast has spoken.

Get on the train or be run over by it, buddy...

JFC, why are you acting like such a fucking asshole?

I'm one of the "sane" people here but I am absolutely surrounded by these people and obviously know more about what these people think than you.

It's not my fault that you couldn't see this coming.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:30 PM

Before you know it, it will be that way in your city as well.

So the battle isn’t lost everywhere, yet. That’s my point. I totally understand that it’s been lost in certain states/cities, but it hasn’t been lost everywhere. It will be though if normal people refuse to fight back like they did in those places.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:30 PM

JFC, why are you acting like such a fucking asshole?

I'm one of the "sane" people here but I am absolutely surrounded by these people and obviously know more about what these people think than you.

It's not my fault that you couldn't see this coming.

There seems to be a lot of denying the reality of the situation, if anyone really didn't see this coming, I'd like to ask them where they have been.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:31 PM

There seems to be a lot of denying the reality of the situation, if anyone really didn't see this coming, I'd like to ask them where they have been.

I don’t think the problem here is seeing it coming.

We see it coming, but refuse to just give in because they’ve won elsewhere. That’s the point I’ve tried to make with the Chiefs on a more micro level.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:33 PM

Your city's full of smug, oblivious assholes that have let their city turn be overrun by squalor while simultaneously pricing out the working class and would gladly see the rest of world succumb to the same crap.

No - I'm disinclined to accept your version of 'normal'.

Without getting into an overtly political discussion, the people of which you and Dane speak occupy nearly all public school classrooms and administration offices in the country and they control local governments all across the country at almost every level. There are still pockets of the country where those I believe you would call “normal” people have positions of power in state and federal governments but those are dwindling. The media and large corporations are almost all led by these individuals and even media and corporate entities that have sold themselves as being against it are actually for it behind the scenes.

The “normal” people have numbers but because of the systematic elimination of the middle class, they have no funding. The side you dislike has largely limitless funds. There is no “standing up to them” anymore.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:33 PM

So the battle isn’t lost everywhere, yet. That’s my point. I totally understand that it’s been lost in certain states/cities, but it hasn’t been lost everywhere. It will be though if normal people refuse to fight back like they did in those places.

I wish I could agree but unfortunately, the battle has already been lost.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:33 PM

I don’t think the problem here is seeing it coming.

We see it coming, but refuse to just give in because they’ve won elsewhere.

You earlier acknowledged that it's everywhere so how do you expect to win that?

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:35 PM

You earlier acknowledged that it's everywhere so how do you expect to win that?

I didn’t mean geographically.

I meant things like sports, video games, etc.

I mean there are still red states and cities...

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:35 PM

I don’t think the problem here is seeing it coming.

We see it coming, but refuse to just give in because they’ve won elsewhere. That’s the point I’ve tried to make with the Chiefs on a more micro level.

They’ve won everywhere. You and I will be dead and the generation behind us doesn’t believe like we do. The generation after them believes like us even less. And I don’t live on the coast. I live in what used to be the Bible Belt.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:36 PM

They’ve won everywhere. You and I will be dead and the generation behind us doesn’t believe like we do. The generation after them believes like us even less. And I don’t live on the coast. I live in what used to be the Bible Belt.

Man, you guys are getting me depressed.

I’m only 32 with an 11 month old child. I guess my situation just won’t allow me to admit defeat just yet.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:37 PM

I didn’t mean geographically.

I meant things like sports, video games, etc.

I mean there are still red states and cities...

As far as video games go there is always going to be a non PC culture in that because of the amount of creators that spins in a lot of different directions. Some studios are going to 100% do woke shit and others won't in that regard.

The problem with sports is sports teams are generally going to reside in big cities and young people and big cities are the biggest supporters of all this kind of stuff.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:38 PM

Man, you guys are getting me depressed.

I’m only 32 with an 11 month old child. I guess my situation just won’t allow me to admit defeat just yet.

Well, it doesn’t depress me but let’s not get into that. We’ve already talked politics today. :drool:

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:38 PM

Man, you guys are getting me depressed.

I’m only 32 with an 11 month old child. I guess my situation just won’t allow me to admit defeat just yet.

I'll be 40 in 2 months...I have high school and college aged children. Their beliefs are wildly different than mine are, it just is what it is.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:39 PM

Man, you guys are getting me depressed.

I’m only 32 with an 11 month old child. I guess my situation just won’t allow me to admit defeat just yet.

Also, if possible, homeschool your child unless you’re absolutely comfortable with your local teachers and school district.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:42 PM

I'll be 40 in 2 months...I have high school and college aged children. Their beliefs are wildly different than mine are, it just is what it is.

Yep

staylor26

08-24-2020, 02:44 PM

I'll be 40 in 2 months...I have high school and college aged children. Their beliefs are wildly different than mine are, it just is what it is.

I’m very lucky to live in Key West where at least for now it’s not an issue in our schools or community.

So unless things change drastically down here, college is the biggest concern in terms of indoctrination.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:46 PM

I’m very lucky to live in Key West where at least for now it’s not an issue in our schools or community.

So unless things change drastically down here, college is the biggest concern in terms of indoctrination.

I have a son that is a sophomore in college and he will literally read you the riot act if you say retard in front of him.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:47 PM

JFC, why are you acting like such a fucking asshole?

I'm one of the "sane" people here but I am absolutely surrounded by these people and obviously know more about what these people think than you.

It's not my fault that you couldn't see this coming.

Because you're being condescending as hell.

'Those people' aren't in the majority. They may appear that way on social media, but they aren't. And those people have urban centers but they don't have the geography. Yet.

The fastest and easiest way to ensure that there ARE no sane people left w/ the ability to make their voice heard and carry the argument is to simply cede the fight. It's to belittle those willing to point out the absurdity of their position as naive.

No, I'm not going to just say "well the fucking whack-jobs in LA think this so I guess we oughta fold up the tents..."

Because 'those people' are idiots and its incumbent upon people like Clark Hunt to point that out or simply wait to be assimilated by the borg.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:49 PM

Because you're being condescending as hell.

'Those people' aren't in the majority. They may appear that way on social media, but they aren't. And those people have urban centers but they don't have the geography. Yet.

The fastest and easiest way to ensure that there ARE no sane people left w/ the ability to make their voice heard and carry the argument is to simply cede the fight. It's to belittle those willing to point out the absurdity of their position as naive.

No, I'm not going to just say "well the fucking whack-jobs in LA think this so I guess we oughta fold up the tents..."

Because 'those people' are idiots and its incumbent upon people like Clark Hunt to point that out or simply wait to be assimilated by the borg.

I'd say this, geography matters to a degree as you see in it urban centers but it's also heavy in younger people. If you don't have a child or friends in their late teens/early 20s you won't see this.

Like I said I see this a lot and the divide is more on age than anything. Our culture is changing, the young generation today is moving in a much different direction and it just is how it is right now.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 02:51 PM

I have a son that is a sophomore in college and he will literally read you the riot act if you say retard in front of him.

Teachers at our elementary and middle school's have "Micro-Aggression" learning sessions, not only for the students but for parents as well.

My youngest's new third grade teacher is "Non-Binary" and is to be addressed as either They or Them.

It's a new world out there and you can either fight, kick, scream and yell while making everyone around you miserable or you just go with it because life is difficult enough in this day and age.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:51 PM

Without getting into an overtly political discussion, the people of which you and Dane speak occupy nearly all public school classrooms and administration offices in the country and they control local governments all across the country at almost every level. There are still pockets of the country where those I believe you would call “normal” people have positions of power in state and federal governments but those are dwindling. The media and large corporations are almost all led by these individuals and even media and corporate entities that have sold themselves as being against it are actually for it behind the scenes.

The “normal” people have numbers but because of the systematic elimination of the middle class, they have no funding. The side you dislike has largely limitless funds. There is no “standing up to them” anymore.

They're the invading army, maqe. The way you beat them is to ensure you can wait them out.

The pendulum always swings. And it will do so again. But because we continue to allow them to push the overton window when it's swinging in their favor, the 'sane' have to fight for less and less ground.

Dane and Mecca are doing it in this very conversation. They're letting the overton window slide further than it's ever been and it's going to be damn near impossible to push it back if/when the public (with it's housecat's attention span) changes its mind again.

You dig your heels in when you're losing ground because it gives you that much less territory to reconquer when the winds shift in your favor. You don't just cede the argument, especially not when you know how unreasonable they're being.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 02:52 PM

I'd say this, geography matters to a degree as you see in it urban centers but it's also heavy in younger people. If you don't have a child or friends in their late teens/early 20s you won't see this.

Like I said I see this a lot and the divide is more on age than anything. Our culture is changing, the young generation today is moving in a much different direction and it just is how it is right now.

The young generation did this very thing in the 60s and 70s as well, before becoming one of the most self-centered generations in history in the 80s and 90s.

Because young people eventually have skin in the game.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:53 PM

I'd say this, geography matters to a degree as you see in it urban centers but it's also heavy in younger people. If you don't have a child or friends in their late teens/early 20s you won't see this.

Like I said I see this a lot and the divide is more on age than anything. Our culture is changing, the young generation today is moving in a much different direction and it just is how it is right now.

Yep. Again I live in what was once the Bible Belt and the kids here are every bit as woke in many cases as the coasts.

Not only that but I have to say it again - the coffee pot you use to make your morning coffee, the outfit from which your digital news (as well as the device upon which you read it), the danish you’re eating - ALL supplied by companies pushing a progressive agenda.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:54 PM

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 02:56 PM

The young generation did this very thing in the 60s and 70s as well, before becoming one of the most self-centered generations in history in the 80s and 90s.

Because young people eventually have skin in the game.

The children of the 60’s and 70’s are the ones in positions of power and also the ones pushing this agenda. The scale of what we’re talking about now makes communes look like the Mayflower colony. This isn’t an invading army, it’s an occupying one.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 02:57 PM

The children of the 60’s and 70’s are the ones in positions of power and also the ones pushing this agenda. The scale of what we’re talking about now makes communes look like the Mayflower colony. This isn’t an invading army, it’s an occupying one.

I seriously ask anyone who has kids high school-college age, ask them some questions, you'll probably be stunned at the answers you get back if you don't already know...

O.city

08-24-2020, 02:59 PM

This thread went off the rails. I blame staylor, just like i always do.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:01 PM

This thread went off the rails. I blame staylor, just like i always do.

It all ties together actually, even to the extent of the responses.

RunKC

08-24-2020, 03:01 PM

'Those people' aren't in the majority. They may appear that way on social media, but they aren't. .

What’s crazy to me is Twitter, which is comprised of less than 5% of the US population, has changed journalism and started this whole shit of changes. Cancel culture, automated bots pushing multiple activist targeted attacks and stupid rise of politicians (we know who) to get elected with bad policy ideals.

I fucking hate Jack

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:01 PM

The children of the 60’s and 70’s are the ones in positions of power and also the ones pushing this agenda. The scale of what we’re talking about now makes communes look like the Mayflower colony. This isn’t an invading army, it’s an occupying one.

Do you believe your average 20 year old right this very minute believes the things he/she believes any more strongly than your average 20 year old did in 1968?

I do not.

And just as those same flower children went onto become the hated 'baby boomers' - so too will millennials inevitably see where they overplayed their hands.

Provided that the other side doesn't just shrug their shoulders and walk away.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:02 PM

They're the invading army, maqe. The way you beat them is to ensure you can wait them out.

The pendulum always swings. And it will do so again. But because we continue to allow them to push the overton window when it's swinging in their favor, the 'sane' have to fight for less and less ground.

Dane and Mecca are doing it in this very conversation. They're letting the overton window slide further than it's ever been and it's going to be damn near impossible to push it back if/when the public (with it's housecat's attention span) changes its mind again.

You dig your heels in when you're losing ground because it gives you that much less territory to reconquer when the winds shift in your favor. You don't just cede the argument, especially not when you know how unreasonable they're being.

Digging in your heels sounds good in theory until you look back 40-50 years and you realize that even though you’re resisting, you give up a little ground every time they push. For every 1 step you take back, they pull you two forward. It’s called incrementalism and the time to stop it is king past. This well never be reversed. At best you can slow it down but that doesn’t make it any less inevitable. Sure, if today’s youth had the same skin in the game that we do, it might be different but they simply don’t. They honestly believe that all they have to do I vote and everything will be paid for them. They’ll even make money by being a member of a discriminated class. One of my daughter’s friends is a biological girl, who wants to be a boy, but is also attracted to boys, so identifies as transgender AND gay. All she needs to do is say the word and she can get people suspended, fired, removed, or whatever. The school embraces it, society empathize with it, and the parents can do nothing. Any attempt to intervene is child abuse.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:02 PM

Do you believe your average 20 year old right this very minute believes the things he/she believes any more strongly than your average 20 year old did in 1968?

I do not.

And just as those same flower children went onto become the hated 'baby boomers' - so too will millennials inevitably see where they overplayed their hands.

Provided that the other side doesn't just shrug their shoulders and walk away.

Gen Z is actually way worse than Millennials in what we are talking about.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:03 PM

Because you're being condescending as hell.

You've lost your mind. I am speaking from experience, which is obviously something you've never experienced.

I get why you're angry but there's no reason to take out that anger on either me or Mecca or anyone else that's come to the realization that things are changing rapidly in terms of "Derogatory" team names.

'Those people' aren't in the majority. They may appear that way on social media, but they aren't. And those people have urban centers but they don't have the geography. Yet.

How many mutli-national corporations have you worked for and when did you do so? Because I can tell you that people that believe in such things are everywhere in corporate America and corporations that were behind the 8 Ball are suddenly changing their attitudes, which is also reflected in HR.

The fastest and easiest way to ensure that there ARE no sane people left w/ the ability to make their voice heard and carry the argument is to simply cede the fight. It's to belittle those willing to point out the absurdity of their position as naive.

You're the one being naive. I think you'd be in for a major culture shock if you were to interview or work at a corporation based in any of the large coastal cities.

No, I'm not going to just say "well the fucking whack-jobs in LA think this so I guess we oughta fold up the tents..."

It's not just Los Angeles, it's nearly every large city in this country.

Did you see how quickly things went south for the Redskins this year? The loss of corporate sponsors, minority owners willing to sell their share of the team unless immediate changes were made?

Because 'those people' are idiots and its incumbent upon people like Clark Hunt to point that out or simply wait to be assimilated by the borg.

Clark has already made the decision to reform the Chiefs imagery.

The battle that you want fought has already been won by the other side.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:04 PM

Do you believe your average 20 year old right this very minute believes the things he/she believes any more strongly than your average 20 year old did in 1968?

I do not.

And just as those same flower children went onto become the hated 'baby boomers' - so too will millennials inevitably see where they overplayed their hands.

Provided that the other side doesn't just shrug their shoulders and walk away.

I absolutely do.

A 20-year old in 1968 wanted “set” free.
A 20-year old today wants to “get” free.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:04 PM

This thread went off the rails. I blame staylor, just like i always do.

Eh - the thread on this topic got punted into DC and the mods evidently thought that would be the end of it.

Leave the other thread in here and this probably stays mostly on track.

But yeah, I also blame staylor. but only because you weren't around to blame first.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:05 PM

Digging in your heels sounds good in theory until you look back 40-50 years and you realize that even though you’re resisting, you give up a little ground every time they push. For every 1 step you take back, they pull you two forward. It’s called incrementalism and the time to stop it is king past. This well never be reversed. At best you can slow it down but that doesn’t make it any less inevitable. Sure, if today’s youth had the same skin in the game that we do, it might be different but they simply don’t. They honestly believe that all they have to do I vote and everything will be paid for them. They’ll even make money by being a member of a discriminated class. One of my daughter’s friends is a biological girl, who wants to be a boy, but is also attracted to boys, so identifies as transgender AND gay. All she needs to do is say the word and she can get people suspended, fired, removed, or whatever. The school embraces it, society empathize with it, and the parents can do nothing. Any attempt to intervene is child abuse.

In my childrens schooling, I have met more gay kids, transgender kids etc etc than I had in my entire life in 1 year. And where you see jokes and such to younger people that shit isn't funny and if you even accidently use the wrong pronoun get ready to have your kid lose their shit.

RunKC

08-24-2020, 03:05 PM

The children of the 60’s and 70’s are the ones in positions of power and also the ones pushing this agenda. The scale of what we’re talking about now makes communes look like the Mayflower colony. This isn’t an invading army, it’s an occupying one.

Your generation made our generation this way you assholes! ROFL

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x-A6zERn6yo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:07 PM

Gen Z is actually way worse than Millennials in what we are talking about.

Yes they are.

It's similar to my 6 yr old vs. my 2 year olds. If I let the 3 of them gang up on us, all hell breaks loose.

But if we can get the slightly more sane, slightly more reasonable 6 year old on board, we turn the conversation. Often with the 6 year old as the necessary intermediary.

Again - I don't believe for a second this isn't something we've seen before. They're even borrowing the same slogans.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:07 PM

Dane and Mecca are doing it in this very conversation. They're letting the overton window slide further than it's ever been and it's going to be damn near impossible to push it back if/when the public (with it's housecat's attention span) changes its mind again.

Yeah?

Well fuck me for not having the time and energy after a long day of work and dealing with a pre-teen and a 3rd grader that I don't go on Twitter and tell everyone how wrong they are to demand that sports teams change their name.

If you've got the time and energy to fight a battle that's already been lost, good on you.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:07 PM

staylor26

08-24-2020, 03:08 PM

This thread went off the rails. I blame staylor, just like i always do.

https://i.imgur.com/rIMe4zI.gif

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:08 PM

https://i.imgur.com/rIMe4zI.gif

ROFL

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:09 PM

A teacher can be suspended for accidentally saying “her”.

Something I honestly think is some of the people fighting hard in this thread like DJ and Staylor, I admire that and it's the good fight.....but I see the ages they listed for the kids and I don't think they've been truly hit in the face with the reality that exists the same as you and I have.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:09 PM

I seriously ask anyone who has kids high school-college age, ask them some questions, you'll probably be stunned at the answers you get back if you don't already know...

Hell, my elementary student already knows about the 22 different genders and goes to school with children that have already proclaimed themselves to be gay, lesbian or transgender.

The old adage that the Midwest is 3 years behind fashion and societal changes may or may not still ring true but regardless, this will happen everywhere in the country and there's no stopping it now.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:12 PM

In my childrens schooling, I have met more gay kids, transgender kids etc etc than I had in my entire life in 1 year. And where you see jokes and such to younger people that shit isn't funny and if you even accidently use the wrong pronoun get ready to have your kid lose their shit.

Yep.

A teacher can be suspended for accidentally saying “her”.

My 3rd grader's new teacher is Non-Binary, so the teacher is to be addressed as They or Them.

You can either act like a dick and be "That guy" or just go along for the ride.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:12 PM

Yes they are.

It's similar to my 6 yr old vs. my 2 year olds. If I let the 3 of them gang up on us, all hell breaks loose.

But if we can get the slightly more sane, slightly more reasonable 6 year old on board, we turn the conversation. Often with the 6 year old as the necessary intermediary.

Again - I don't believe for a second this isn't something we've seen before. They're even borrowing the same slogans.

My kids were homeschooled. We taught them to be critical thinkers, reasonable, and thoughtful. They’re quite a bit more liberal than me for sure but out in the world, with their peer group, they actually get treated like hate mongers. EVERY one of their close friends is part of some protected class, some inescapable and some not. There is no rational discussion with them. You either agree 100% or you embody hate. You’re not allowed to ask questions of any kind. This is the exact pressure that goes on in our society as a whole. Most young people will crumble before it whether they actually want to or not.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:13 PM

Yep.

My 3rd grader's new teacher is Non-Binary, so the teacher is to be addressed as They or Them.

You can either act like a dick and be "That guy" or just go along for the ride.

Is just not worth it to be that guy, your kids will find you embarrassing and the people at the school will think you have a problem. I have no desire to have my kids be ashamed of my actions in a place they have to go everyday.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:14 PM

Hell, my elementary student already knows about the 22 different genders and goes to school with children that have already proclaimed themselves to be gay, lesbian or transgender.

The old adage that the Midwest is 3 years behind fashion and societal changes may or may not still ring true but regardless, this will happen everywhere in the country and there's no stopping it now.

This part of the Midwest isn’t behind. In some cases, we are actually AHEAD.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:15 PM

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:16 PM

Is just not worth it to be that guy, your kids will find you embarrassing and the people at the school will think you have a problem. I have no desire to have my kids be ashamed of my actions in a place they have to go everyday.

Exactly. I don't need to create a "Data Point", something that my children will always remember, by not respecting this teacher or any of the young children that believe they're not heterosexual.

It's like the sportswriters that refused to call Muhammed Ali by his chosen name and instead, referred to him as Cassius Clay because that was his given name.

Those people were on the wrong side of history and I'm certainly not going to be 'That Guy'.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:17 PM

Shame is the least of it. Being “that guy” can often lead to bodily harm for your kid.

That too, my kid wants to wear a BLM shirt for the first day of school, I told her it was not a great idea...

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:19 PM

That too, my kid wants to wear a BLM shirt for the first day of school, I told her it was not a great idea...

We received a ton of emails this summer in which the schools were offering strategies as to how the students and parents can curb racism and support BLM.

They even recommended a book about how not to be a racist.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:20 PM

Exactly. I don't need to create a "Data Point", something that my children will always remember, by not respecting this teacher or any of the young children that believe they're not heterosexual.

It's like the sportswriters that refused to call Muhammed Ali by his chosen name and instead, referred to him as Cassius Clay because that was his given name.

Those people were on the wrong side of history and I'm certainly not going to be 'That Guy'.

Well, I will be honest. I’m not real concerned with the whole “wrong side of history” bit. I have my beliefs and I will stick to them. That doesn’t keep me from acknowledging that no matter how hard I fight, I’m not going to make much of a difference. My personal opinion is founded in hope, not despair, but again nobody wants to get into that here.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:20 PM

We received a ton of emails this summer in which the schools were offering strategies as to how the students and parents can curb racism and support BLM.

They even recommended a book about how not to be a racist.

The school my children go to has had a few race incidents in the past several years so I told her it was best to not stroke any fires.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:25 PM

Well, I will be honest. I’m not real concerned with the whole “wrong side of history” bit. I have my beliefs and I will stick to them. That doesn’t keep me from acknowledging that no matter how hard I fight, I’m not going to make much of a difference. My personal opinion is founded in hope, not despair, but again nobody wants to get into that here.

For me, at the end of the day or end of the week, sports teams changing their names is about #17,893 on the list issues I need to address and I have neither the time nor energy to argue and fight with people that just don't care.

All of that said, I truly hope the Chiefs are able to retain their name but my instincts tell that it will probably change sooner rather than later.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:26 PM

Something I honestly think is some of the people fighting hard in this thread like DJ and Staylor, I admire that and it's the good fight.....but I see the ages they listed for the kids and I don't think they've been truly hit in the face with the reality that exists the same as you and I have.

Not directly. Not on the homefront.

But I work in a college down and over the last 10 years, we've constantly employed anywhere between 60 and 100 college kids. And I'll be honest - we're getting away from them wherever we can precisely because they ARE worse than they were even 6-8 years ago.

But it's because they're rarely engaged on their bullshit. We have a fairly open door policy here and I will engage them in some relatively 'in the weeds' conversations. And ultimately nobody ever has a Perry Mason moment where they acknowledge how wrong they've been.

But damn near all of them recognize how ill-equipped they are for the confrontation. They recognize that most of their beliefs don't stand up to direct scrutiny. And sometimes that will lead them to trying to get a better foundation for them. In the course of that search, they see that they're maybe not as gung-ho as they once were. Some DO come back later with different views.

And some just shrug their shoulders and walk away. But y'know what? Those people don't actually do anything. The people that get out of a dialogue where they really kinda get disarmed but don't care much and go about their day? Those people don't effectuate change. Those people won't alter their purchasing habits. They're lemings and useful idiots - they really don't matter. They're filler.

You have to engage the people that WILL fight back. And that WILL come for a round 2 or 3 or 4. And then you have to convince 'em. And it's hard but it can be done if you're just fucking right and if you're more informed than they are.

Well jesus, they're 20 years old, if you can't be more informed than them, you're doing something wrong.

It's the same complaint as applied to my side that I so frequently apply to theirs - an unwillingness to accept delayed gratification. You don't win this fight overnight. You may not even win it in a single generation. But if you just get the rough edges knocked off some really asinine arguments, you CAN win them over time. Just as the left needs to burn capital in furtherance of gains for their children and their grandchildren, those of us on the opposite side of the fence need to be willing/able to do the same.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:27 PM

The school my children go to has had a few race incidents in the past several years so I told her it was best to not stroke any fires.

Our schools celebrate diversity so it's not an issue.

The school has a Multi-Cultural festival every Spring, which is one of my favorite events of the school year because people of all shapes, colors and sizes get together to have fun, eat absolutely amazing ethnic food and listen to music we might not otherwise hear.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:30 PM

Our schools celebrate diversity so it's not an issue.

The school has a Multi-Cultural festival every Spring, which is one of my favorite events of the school year because people of all shapes, colors and sizes get together to have fun, eat absolutely amazing ethnic food and listen to music we might not otherwise hear.

My daughters school skipped any Thanksgiving celebration because "it was difficult to know how to teach it..."

Fucking teach it. All of it. Don't just skip it because you couldn't figure out exactly the right way to shade it. There are real problems with how some of that went down - but y'know what? There's a ton to be gained from it as well.

And good lord, if you can't teach thanksgiving, how long until history writ large becomes 'problematic'.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:30 PM

Well jesus, they're 20 years old, if you can't be more informed than them, you're doing something wrong.

If you think it's bad now, just imagine how it will be in five years, then maybe you'll have an idea of what I've been dealing with for nearly a decade.

It's coming. You can't outrun it but if you're not careful, you could lose your career because of it, which is happening all over the country.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:33 PM

My daughters school skipped any Thanksgiving celebration because "it was difficult to know how to teach it..."

Our schools have a fundraiser each year before Thanksgiving called "The Turkey Trot", which usually raises $200k or more.

That's the beginning and end of Thanksgiving in school.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:41 PM

But it's because they're rarely engaged on their bullshit. We have a fairly open door policy here and I will engage them in some relatively 'in the weeds' conversations. And ultimately nobody ever has a Perry Mason moment where they acknowledge how wrong they've been.

Again, it comes back to schooling. As a homeschooling parent over the last 10 years, I've had a lot of chances to look at curricula. Even though I am a Christian, my kids were homeschooled without a specifically religious curriculum because I saw what the public school was teaching.

Did you know that math is a process? It's not completely necessary to have the RIGHT ANSWER, as long as you can show the thought process in how you arrived at your answer. If you explain yourself well, a wrong answer can even be dismissed for "good effort". This is happening at every level of the public schools, in all subject.s. This is PRECISELY why you've encountered adolescents that can't admit they are wrong. To them, there is no "wrong".

You have to engage the people that WILL fight back. And that WILL come for a round 2 or 3 or 4. And then you have to convince 'em. And it's hard but it can be done if you're just fucking right and if you're more informed than they are.

You are talking about individual engagement. In much of the time I spent away from Chiefsplanet, I was working with troubled teens. I got through to many of them, probably even more than 50%. And it's still a HANDFUL compared to what they're are being taught by the rest of society. I applaud you for doing it - I love doing it myself and have become quite good at it. But it's simply not going to bring about societal change. The best we can hope for is to bring a few out of the wilderness.

Marcellus

08-24-2020, 03:42 PM

In my childrens schooling, I have met more gay kids, transgender kids etc etc than I had in my entire life in 1 year. And where you see jokes and such to younger people that shit isn't funny and if you even accidently use the wrong pronoun get ready to have your kid lose their shit.

Yea but not for the reasons you think you have. More absolute nonsense being pushed by people who claim "science". But this is a topic for another forum.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:43 PM

My daughters school skipped any Thanksgiving celebration because "it was difficult to know how to teach it..."

Fucking teach it. All of it. Don't just skip it because you couldn't figure out exactly the right way to shade it. There are real problems with how some of that went down - but y'know what? There's a ton to be gained from it as well.

And good lord, if you can't teach thanksgiving, how long until history writ large becomes 'problematic'.

There are many places, including the halls of higher education, where history writ large is already problematic. You can't record the exploits of the human race and not talk about how badly we've treated each other. In many ways, treating each other like shit is part of our behavioral DNA. But since we're not allowed to talk about slaves, genocide, or anything else of the sort, we're not allowed to talk about history at all.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:45 PM

Yea but not for the reasons you think you have. More absolute nonsense being pushed by people who claim "science". But this is a topic for another forum.

You should tell me why you think that is, you can't bring it up and not tell me your view.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 03:48 PM

There are many places, including the halls of higher education, where history writ large is already problematic. You can't record the exploits of the human race and not talk about how badly we've treated each other. In many ways, treating each other like shit is part of our behavioral DNA. But since we're not allowed to talk about slaves, genocide, or anything else of the sort, we're not allowed to talk about history at all.

They don't teach any history where I live, nor do they teach anything about our country, the wars, land acquisitions, nothing. That said, they do teach math at a much higher level than when I was a kid, as well as English and Spanish (the younger elementary kids have to take Spanish from K-3).

My oldest had a 4.0 last year in school yet on Saturday, told me that the US doesn't have a Capitol. That's right, she's able to perform algebra, can complete science projects and turn in well-written essays and stories but doesn't know that the Capitol of the United States is Washington, DC because it wasn't taught in school.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:48 PM

Our schools have a fundraiser each year before Thanksgiving called "The Turkey Trot", which usually raises $200k or more.

That's the beginning and end of Thanksgiving in school.

And it's the history nut w/ the political science degree in me that loses my damn mind when I see this.

History and Civics have so much to teach us. And those lessons came at such extraordinary cost that it's downright criminal to ignore them.

I just look at the stuff with the Chiefs, for instance, and with a little but of study in anthropology you can absolutely dissect this whole 'Europeans came and butchered them and ended their way of life...' thing.

No - the fact that hunter gatherer societies were incapable of prolonged scientific advancement, a viable long-term leadership/succession plan or wholesale education is what ended their way of life. And this can be anthropologically proven taking race out of the equation altogether by simply looking at stuff like the development of the Chatham Islands and the Maori/Matiori populations. You can look at the fossil record and see fascinating inventions that just got left behind because they were too big to travel or the dude that invented them got gored by something he was trying to kill. Advancement died w/ the food supply or the creator.

Over any timeline, hunter/gatherer societies are doomed because they don't have surplus. Without surplus, you can't have teachers (nobody will feed them) or generals or even politicians (which yes, are sadly necessary for societal advancement because they foster stability and growth in early civilizations).

So teach that! And y'know what, teach the cruelty of many Europeans and their wrong-headedness in foisting Christianity on people as well. Teach all of it because it's ALL vital.

But to just say "Europeans came over and killed all the Indians so they could steal their land...so we're just gonna skip this outright" is friggen negligence of the highest order.

There are so many things that are excellent jumping off points for further discussion that teachers simply blow past anymore because it's 'problematic' and they're lazy.

Marcellus

08-24-2020, 03:51 PM

You should tell me why you think that is, you can't bring it up and not tell me your view.

Ill just give you a stat and let you think of it what you want.

10 years ago .1% of the entire population of the US identified as transgender.

Last year a survey done in high schools showed 2% of HS females identified as transgender. I believe I heard on a podcast that's something like a 7,000% increase.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:52 PM

Ill just give you a stat and let you think of it what you want.

10 years ago .1% of the entire population of the US identified as transgender.

Last year a survey done in high schools showed 2% of HS females identified as transgender. I believe I heard on a podcast that's something like a 7,000% increase.

I get the stat, now tell me why you think the number is bigger, whats your theory.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 03:52 PM

There are many places, including the halls of higher education, where history writ large is already problematic. You can't record the exploits of the human race and not talk about how badly we've treated each other. In many ways, treating each other like shit is part of our behavioral DNA. But since we're not allowed to talk about slaves, genocide, or anything else of the sort, we're not allowed to talk about history at all.

Yeah - just kills me.

I don't know how you can talk about society without talking about anthropology and behavioral ecology and historical sociology, etc...

But the bottom line is that those disciplines, as thoroughly researched and well thought out as they are, do NOT dovetail with the modern approaches to intersectionality and biological ambiguity.

We have to unlearn decades of extraordinary study to replace it with pseudo-scientific, politically driven horseshit. And the way they unlearn it is to simply not teach it.

And kids are a lot worse off for it.

Marcellus

08-24-2020, 03:54 PM

I get the stat, now tell me why you think the number is bigger, whats your theory.

It doesn't matter what I think, figure it out on your own, form your own opinion.

Here is the person I listened to the podcast interview with, she wrote a book on it. And the number should have been .01% not .1%.

https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:54 PM

They don't teach any history where I live, nor do they teach anything about our country, the wars, land acquisitions, nothing. That said, they do teach math at a much higher level than when I was a kid, as well as English and Spanish (the younger elementary kids have to take Spanish from K-3).

Yeah, it's very much the same here with regards to history. For math, it depends on the age. In high school, my oldest was doing things for high school math I did for college credit my junior and senior years. But my youngest went through elementary and they put zero emphasis on results, aka "the right answer". It was all about explaining how you arrived at your answer. Spanish is now required in many districts whereas it was an elective when I was in school.

My oldest had a 4.0 last year in school yet on Saturday, told me that the US doesn't have a Capitol. That's right, she's able to perform algebra, can complete science projects and turn in well-written essays and stories but doesn't know that the Capitol of the United States is Washington, DC because it wasn't taught in school.

Yep. Not at all uncommon. I know high school kids that passed calculus but can't actually find the US on a world map.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 03:55 PM

It doesn't matter what I think, figure it out on your own, form your own opinion.

So you tell me it's not what I think it is, give me a stat I'm aware of yet don't tell me the reason you think it is?

Why are you playing around with your point?

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:56 PM

And it's the history nut w/ the political science degree in me that loses my damn mind when I see this.

History and Civics have so much to teach us. And those lessons came at such extraordinary cost that it's downright criminal to ignore them.

I just look at the stuff with the Chiefs, for instance, and with a little but of study in anthropology you can absolutely dissect this whole 'Europeans came and butchered them and ended their way of life...' thing.

No - the fact that hunter gatherer societies were incapable of prolonged scientific advancement, a viable long-term leadership/succession plan or wholesale education is what ended their way of life. And this can be anthropologically proven taking race out of the equation altogether by simply looking at stuff like the development of the Chatham Islands and the Maori/Matiori populations. You can look at the fossil record and see fascinating inventions that just got left behind because they were too big to travel or the dude that invented them got gored by something he was trying to kill. Advancement died w/ the food supply or the creator.

Over any timeline, hunter/gatherer societies are doomed because they don't have surplus. Without surplus, you can't have teachers (nobody will feed them) or generals or even politicians (which yes, are sadly necessary for societal advancement because they foster stability and growth in early civilizations).

So teach that! And y'know what, teach the cruelty of many Europeans and their wrong-headedness in foisting Christianity on people as well. Teach all of it because it's ALL vital.

But to just say "Europeans came over and killed all the Indians so they could steal their land...so we're just gonna skip this outright" is friggen negligence of the highest order.

There are so many things that are excellent jumping off points for further discussion that teachers simply blow past anymore because it's 'problematic' and they're lazy.

The worst possible outcome is also the most probably - those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. :shake:

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 03:59 PM

Yeah - just kills me.

I don't know how you can talk about society without talking about anthropology and behavioral ecology and historical sociology, etc...

But the bottom line is that those disciplines, as thoroughly researched and well thought out as they are, do NOT dovetail with the modern approaches to intersectionality and biological ambiguity.

We have to unlearn decades of extraordinary study to replace it with pseudo-scientific, politically driven horseshit. And the way they unlearn it is to simply not teach it.

And kids are a lot worse off for it.

The only way you can talk about society without any of those historical disciplines is to talk about society RIGHT NOW. It creates a discussion of transitory ideas devoid of absolutes or context. It becomes a case of figuring out where I fit in the current environment and how I get the most out of it, whether that be money, pleasure, whatever, all of which are also fleeting.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 04:10 PM

I get the stat, now tell me why you think the number is bigger, whats your theory.

He’s probably trying to say it’s because they’re fucking with kids heads.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 04:15 PM

He’s probably trying to say it’s because they’re fucking with kids heads.

It's possible, I don't know all that much about it so I'll listen to that.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 04:18 PM

It's possible, I don't know all that much about it so I'll listen to that.

For instance, a good % of the kids are probably just gay and confused. Then they have somebody telling them well ”Are you sure you don’t feel like a girl Billy?”

A lot of people who transition at a young age regret it later on.

Deberg_1990

08-24-2020, 04:19 PM

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 04:21 PM

For instance, a good % of the kids are probably just gay and confused.

There's a much higher degree of confusion in the past, though. At least as I see here with my own eyes.

And that's largely because of what society allows. Today, there's literally no boundaries on what a kid can be if they put their mind to it. It used to be innocently (maybe not) applied to a kid's ability to excel, go to college, and get a good job.

Now they're literally told they can be anything. I know a kid that identifies as an animal.

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 04:23 PM

For instance, a good % of the kids are probably just gay and confused. Then they have somebody telling them well ”Are you sure you don’t feel like a girl Billy?”

I responded before you added to your post. This is exactly what I was saying.

A lot of people who transition at a young age regret it later on.

Again, I can only respond with my own experience but in the case of my kids' peer group, they've ALL regretted it.

They have a dear friend who decided to become a boy, started transition treatment, and legally changed her name to a definitively "masculine" name. 4 years later, she'a girl again but stuck with that name because of some state red tape BS that won't allow her to change her name again until she's 18.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 04:27 PM

There's a much higher degree of confusion in the past, though. At least as I see here with my own eyes.

And that's largely because of what society allows. Today, there's literally no boundaries on what a kid can be if they put their mind to it. It used to be innocently (maybe not) applied to a kid's ability to excel, go to college, and get a good job.

Now they're literally told they can be anything. I know a kid that identifies as an animal.

Well, it's also because, at least where I live, far more people that are understanding and compassionate when pre-teens and young teens feel that they're not Binary or may be Transgender.

My kids have been exposed to Same-Sex couples and children of Same-Sex couples since they started preschool at age 2, so the stigma that existed in the past century (or millennia) no longer applies.

We currently live in a very confusing world, even for adults, so it's unsurprising that the children are also confused, which leads them to questioning who they are as an individual.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 04:33 PM

Well, it's also because, at least where I live, far more people that are understanding and compassionate when pre-teens and young teens feel that they're not Binary or may be Transgender.

My kids have been exposed to Same-Sex couples and children of Same-Sex couples since they started preschool at age 2, so the stigma that existed in the past century (or millennia) no longer applies.

We currently live in a very confusing world, even for adults, so it's unsurprising that the children are also confused, which leads them to questioning who they are as an individual.

Which is why it’s probably best to let the kids be kids and figure it out on their own instead of transitioning them at a young age because they’re confused.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 04:36 PM

Which is why it’s probably best to let the kids be kids and figure it out on their own instead of transitioning them at a young age because they’re confused.

I don't think there's a way to quantitatively say "You'll grow out of it" when so many people truly are gay or trans.

This nation will have a much larger gay and trans population moving forward because so many parents are no longer ostracizing their children for not being hetero while society has made it illegal to discriminate against gay and trans people.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 04:40 PM

I don't think there's a way to quantitatively say "You'll grow out of it" when so many people truly are gay or trans.

This nation will have a much larger gay and trans population moving forward because so many parents are no longer ostracizing their children for not being hetero while society has made it illegal to discriminate against gay and trans people.

It’s not “You’ll grow out of it”, it’s “This is a big fucking life decision and maybe we should at least let you get through puberty before making that transition”.

There’s a middle ground here. Yes there are some shitty bigoted parents, but there are also woke parents that will want to transition their boy if they see him playing with a doll.

Mecca

08-24-2020, 04:44 PM

So can we change our team name to the crabs then? I'd just like to hear an announcer say, the crabs were all over em today.

DJ's left nut

08-24-2020, 04:45 PM

It’s not “You’ll grow out of it”, it’s “This is a big fucking life decision and maybe we should at least let you get through puberty before making that transition”.

This particular decision is orders of magnitude more important than what job you'll do when you grow up.

You think I'm gonna lock my 6 year old into "sorry, but you're going to be a singing astronaut gymnast and that's final...."?

Again - gotta ignore a whole lot of settled science to think allowing pre-teen children to make life-altering, permanent decisions as to their sexuality is a good idea.

And 10 years ago when these same people were making the arguments on sentencing guidelines they recognized things like "hey, their pre-frontal cortex is maybe half-developed at the moment, maybe we SHOULDN'T imprison them for their formative years because of a half-cocked thought they had and foolishly acted upon..."

We live in a pretty scary world, man. And one where tapping the brakes is frowned upon. Acting sooner is better, by God.

Maybe just indulge the thought, discourage immediate significant action, and let things play out a bit...

It ain't a race.

DaneMcCloud

08-24-2020, 04:47 PM

Yes there are some shitty bigoted parents, but there are also woke parents that will want to transition their boy if they see him playing with a doll.

I've never seen or heard of any parent going to such an extreme with their child.

My oldest told me at one point last year "There are SO many gay and transgender kids at my school!", yet none of them were transitioning, nor where their parents encouraging such a transition.

All I've seen is parents allowing their Tweens and Pre-Teens to feel as they feel but then again, I've only dealt with kids as old as 12, so maybe things change as they grow older.

But all that said, it's not been our on radar.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 04:49 PM

I've never seen or heard of any parent going to such an extreme with their child.

My oldest told me at one point last year "There are SO many gay and transgender kids at my school!", yet none of them were transitioning, nor where their parents encouraging such a transition.

All I've seen is parents allowing their Tweens and Pre-Teens to feel as they feel but then again, I've only dealt with kids as old as 12, so maybe things change as they grow older.

But all that said, it's not been our on radar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7950655/amp/Mother-trying-transition-son-girl-loses-court-judge-orders-parents-joint-custody.html

I’ve seen a lot of stories like this popping up the last few years.

Edit: that article is actually old. The dad ended up losing in the end.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2020/august/texas-judge-reverses-save-james-decision-gives-mom-who-wants-gender-transition-for-boy-all-rights

dirk digler

08-24-2020, 04:55 PM

Now I realize there’s a lot of history, pride, passion and personal history engrained with the “Chiefs” name and imagery.

But I doubt any of us would stop being fans of this franchise if somehow they became the Kansas City Bombers tomorrow.

Oh, and I can’t stand how King has become a whiny woke snowflake the last few years.

I don't forsee the Chiefs ever changing their name as long as Clark is here. His father built this organization and picked its name and he is never going to shit on what his father did.

Easy 6

08-24-2020, 04:58 PM

Seems clear they’re already madly in love with CEH, that’s an awesome sign... this offense will be as close to unstoppable as they get

ChiefsCountry

08-24-2020, 05:12 PM

Proves Gen X is the most worthless parental generation by far.

Halfcan

08-24-2020, 05:33 PM

I don't forsee the Chiefs ever changing their name as long as Clark is here. His father built this organization and picked its name and he is never going to shit on what his father did.

:thumb:

If the names Arrowhead and Chief offend you- you must really be a fucking loser with no life. Probably cry about statues as well.

sedated

08-24-2020, 05:53 PM

:thumb:

If the names Arrowhead and Chief offend you- you must really be a ****ing loser with no life. Probably cry about statues as well.

Aren't people in this thread crying about a mascot?

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 06:09 PM

Proves Gen X is the most worthless parental generation by far.

Our parents made us this way. :D

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 06:10 PM

:thumb:

If the names Arrowhead and Chief offend you- you must really be a fucking loser with no life. Probably cry about statues as well.

And if you're not offended by them, they're still going to get rid of them.

Prepare yourself, it is coming. Just like the statues coming down.

It really doesn't matter what we think in the end, this is where our culture as a whole is headed.

Coogs

08-24-2020, 07:42 PM

Kansas City trailed Houston by 24, Tennessee by seven, San Francisco by 10.

Trailed the Titans by 10... twice. Come on King. You should know better than that.

Can't wait to see CEH in this offense.

JakeF

08-24-2020, 07:47 PM

I still remember when that bonehead Yost was platooning Whitfield with a couple of other players because he decided that Whitfield wasn't good enough.

Pitt Gorilla

08-24-2020, 07:48 PM

King said some cool football stuff and people don't want to discuss THAT?

Coogs

08-24-2020, 08:07 PM

King said some cool football stuff and people don't want to discuss THAT?

Yep

htismaqe

08-24-2020, 08:13 PM

King said some cool football stuff and people don't want to discuss THAT?

What's there to discuss? Chiefs are awesome, we already know this. :thumb:

JakeF

08-24-2020, 08:15 PM

It still annoys me that Reid stabbed Dorsey in the back and kicked him out the door. Reid is winning, so he gets all the applause and accolades. Reid got the Chiefs a Super Bowl win after 60 years which is better than any other coach has done.

I still wouldn't trust that backstabbing fat fuck with so much as my car keys.

staylor26

08-24-2020, 08:29 PM

Kman34

08-24-2020, 08:38 PM

Halfcan

08-24-2020, 09:19 PM

Seems clear they’re already madly in love with CEH, that’s an awesome sign... this offense will be as close to unstoppable as they get

Do you remember how Priest slid in behind our Oline, waited for the smallest of seams and then burst out for huge gains?

That is how CEH looks- then add an amazing spin move like Barry Sanders- great pass catching hands and the ability to find space in open field like Emmitt Smith. Maybe sprinkle in a little bit of hard running and tacklebreaking strength like Hunt--that is what we got.

He looks amazing!

Pitt Gorilla

08-24-2020, 09:27 PM

What's there to discuss? Chiefs are awesome, we already know this. :thumb:More CEH information.

Chief Roundup

08-24-2020, 09:38 PM

Peter King is a libtard.I hope we go undefeated so they have to constantly say Chiefs everywhere forever

fuck cancel cultureCan you guys keep your political bullshit out of here.

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FloridaMan88

08-25-2020, 08:47 AM

htismaqe

08-25-2020, 08:49 AM

Andy Reid without John Dorsey= Super Bowl Champion.

John Dorsey without Andy Reid= Fired from Cleveland.

It's like 3rd grade level thinking, it isn't hard. :clap:

htismaqe

08-25-2020, 08:50 AM

More CEH information.

Not really anything we haven't heard before or seen with our own eyes.

O.city

08-25-2020, 08:52 AM

Yeah, the letting go of Dorsey hasn't proved to be justified. Blah.

RunKC

08-25-2020, 09:11 AM

Sirius XM was talking about the Chiefs yesterday and mentioned some of the same sentiments. CEH is getting a lot of work running the ball, which is a bit odd when your QB is Patrick Mahomes.

They were talking about how they think Andy is going to use some of Rat Jr’s zone running scheme because CEH fits that mold so damn well.

I can’t imagine the effectiveness of the Rat’s zone running scheme mixed with our offense. There’s just no way to even think about stopping that.

Being a LB against this offense has to be the toughest job in the entire league right now. Schemes plays to force you into guarding Kelce, RPO’s freezing you all the time and more plays forcing you to cover the flat late against a RB who always makes the first defender miss.

Marcellus

08-25-2020, 09:31 AM

So you tell me it's not what I think it is, give me a stat I'm aware of yet don't tell me the reason you think it is?

Why are you playing around with your point?

https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317

Until just a few years ago, gender dysphoria—severe discomfort in one’s biological sex—was vanishingly rare. It was typically found in less than .01 percent of the population, emerged in early childhood, and afflicted males almost exclusively.

But today whole groups of female friends in colleges, high schools, and even middle schools across the country are coming out as “transgender.” These are girls who had never experienced any discomfort in their biological sex until they heard a coming-out story from a speaker at a school assembly or discovered the internet community of trans “influencers.”

Unsuspecting parents are awakening to find their daughters in thrall to hip trans YouTube stars and “gender-affirming” educators and therapists who push life-changing interventions on young girls—including medically unnecessary double mastectomies and puberty blockers that can cause permanent infertility.

Abigail Shrier, a writer for the Wall Street Journal, has dug deep into the trans epidemic, talking to the girls, their agonized parents, and the counselors and doctors who enable gender transitions, as well as to “detransitioners”—young women who bitterly regret what they have done to themselves.

Coming out as transgender immediately boosts these girls’ social status, Shrier finds, but once they take the first steps of transition, it is not easy to walk back. She offers urgently needed advice about how parents can protect their daughters.

A generation of girls is at risk. Abigail Shrier’s essential book will help you understand what the trans craze is and how you can inoculate your child against it—or how to retrieve her from this dangerous path.

Here is another book by a Dr who specializes in the topic who left that field of medicine because it was ignoring science in favor of activism.

https://www.drdebrasoh.com/book

Neither of these women are anti gay or anti trans at all. They just believe no decisions should be made until after puberty and into adulthood because most of these cases are created by social pressures not actual biological ones.

tyecopeland

08-25-2020, 10:26 AM

tyecopeland

08-25-2020, 10:30 AM

King said some cool football stuff and people don't want to discuss THAT?

I thought he was done talking football when tyreek didn't get suspended?

Mecca

08-25-2020, 10:34 AM

What about the arrowhead?

He discussed that he thinks we'll end up with a different helmet logo.

tyecopeland

08-25-2020, 10:40 AM

He discussed that he thinks we'll end up with a different helmet logo.

OK. Working, didn't have time to read the whole thread. Thanks.

Although that would suck majorly. Also kinds screws up the stadium name.

FloridaMan88

08-31-2020, 09:24 AM

A real life injun e-mails Peter King with his thoughts on the Chiefs nickname:

Link: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/30/titans-training-camp-nfl-fmia-peter-king/

On whether to use “Chiefs.” From Clint Jenkin: “I appreciate your thoughtfulness on the Native American nicknames, but before you decide to stop using ‘Chiefs,’ please hear me out. I am a registered member of the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians and I am sad to think about a world where one by one, all Native American-themed teams change their nicknames until eventually none are left. These clubs and schools—without exception—chose these nicknames because there was something about native ethos, character, or traditions that they wanted to emulate. We are proud of our history, and as long as it is done from a respectful standpoint, these nicknames are an honor to our native heritage. If writers and pundits become shamed into boycotting these nicknames the eventual result will be the opposite of what I think you want: Native American ideals and history will be even further removed from mainstream society. Let the Chiefs, Seminoles, and Braves have their nicknames. And let’s celebrate the amazing peoples who made those names worth having.”

As I wrote last week, I believe there’s a difference between the Washington team name and Kansas City’s. Washington’s is not hard to view as racist; KC’s is more of an honorific. But—and your email is valuable in my thought process, Clint—I have to consider whether the strong and brave connotation of the name “Chiefs” overrides the feelings of those who adamantly say any Native American nickname is offensive. I do appreciate your feelings. They’re valid and will give me things to think about.

htismaqe

08-31-2020, 09:27 AM

OK. Working, didn't have time to read the whole thread. Thanks.

Although that would suck majorly. Also kinds screws up the stadium name.

There's a few hundred million reasons that the stadium name won't be a problem. ;)

CasselGotPeedOn

08-31-2020, 09:29 AM

htismaqe

08-31-2020, 09:31 AM

I have to consider whether the strong and brave connotation of the name “Chiefs” overrides the feelings of those who adamantly say any Native American nickname is offensive.

Who are these people? Are they Native Americans? Or are they white politicians?

KChiefs1

08-31-2020, 09:39 AM

Who are these people? Are they Native Americans? Or are they white politicians?

White Democrats.

FloridaMan88

08-31-2020, 09:41 AM

Who are these people? Are they Native Americans? Or are they white politicians?

Woke Cancel Maniacs.

O.city

08-31-2020, 10:38 AM

Are we at the point where if anyone finds anything offensive, we're changing it? Cause that's gonna end really well.

Mecca

08-31-2020, 10:40 AM

Are we at the point where if anyone finds anything offensive, we're changing it? Cause that's gonna end really well.

I'm offended by dentists.

htismaqe

08-31-2020, 10:42 AM

Are we at the point where if anyone finds anything offensive, we're changing it? Cause that's gonna end really well.

It's already at the point where one could make a case for finding ANYTHING offensive. That's the issue with this "cancel culture". Somebody has to decide what is and isn't acceptable or we'll end up with NOTHING left. Which means at some point, some party or group becomes the sole arbiter of what is and isn't worthy of being canceled and the rest of us suffer at their hand.

htismaqe

08-31-2020, 10:42 AM

I'm offended by dentists.

Fear does not equal offense. :D

O.city

08-31-2020, 10:44 AM

I'm offended by dentists.

Everyone is.

Thankfully, I stopped giving a fuck a long time ago.

O.city

08-31-2020, 10:44 AM

It's already at the point where one could make a case for finding ANYTHING offensive. That's the issue with this "cancel culture". Somebody has to decide what is and isn't acceptable or we'll end up with NOTHING left. Which means at some point, some party or group becomes the sole arbiter of what is and isn't worthy of being canceled and the rest of us suffer at their hand.

Problem with even that is that given enough time, the mob comes for EVERYONE>

htismaqe

08-31-2020, 10:45 AM

Problem with even that is that given enough time, the mob comes for EVERYONE>

Even themselves, at some point. :thumb: