Why is Robinson playing more than Hardman?

[RunKC]

Someone help me out here. Robinson has hands of stone. He dropped 3 passes by my count last night, including one that hit him right in the face mask.

Robinson played 33 snaps while Hardman played 20.

Just doesn’t make sense to me. Hardman is so much better

[BigRedChief]

I was just thinking of posting this. I’d like to know. We discussed it on our game day zoom meeting.

Okay, we know he’s friends with and in the social click with Mahomes, Dieter etc. He’s big and Fast. But..... he has dropped easy balls his whole time with the Chiefs. Hardman has shown his potential and doesn’t drop the damn ball.

So why is Robinson getting Hardman snaps? Because he’s buddies with Mahomes?

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Blocking. Robinson is a really good blocker. Hardman not so much

[htismaqe]

He dropped 2 and had one knocked out of his hands. The play in the end zone was a heater that Pat threw across his body. Not an easy catch.

Sammy Watkins has the same kind of issues from time to time. Robinson made a couple of nice grabs later in the game.

It was the first game of a season with no OTA's or preseason games.

I think the coaches know what they are doing.

[BlackOp]

That has to be 5-6 dropped passes in the last 2 games against the Texans...two for TDs last night.

Luckily it hasn't come back to haunt the Chiefs...yet.

Give Kemp a look vs. the Chargers?

[staylor26]

I was just thinking of posting this. I’d like to know. We discussed it on our game day zoom meeting.

Okay, we know he’s friends with and in the social click with Mahomes, Dieter etc. He’s big and Fast. But..... he has dropped easy balls his whole time with the Chiefs. Hardman has shown his potential and doesn’t drop the damn ball.

So why is Robinson getting Hardman snaps? Because he’s buddies with Mahomes?

Lol no.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Pat loves throwing to him. Always has

[DJ's left nut]

I would say it says something about the progression of Mecole.

It may also be that they thought they didn’t need him and we’re going to focus on establishing the run, in which case Robinson’s a pretty physical and reliable blocker.

And Reid shows NOTHING when he has a lead. When they were up 24-7 and the running game was working, he probably just too Hardman out of the game plan.

[BigRedChief]

I think the coaches know what they are doing.In no way was I questioning Coach Reid. Just what the hell are they seeing we are not? Not studying the playbook enough? Effort in practice, runs the wrong routes? What is it?

[htismaqe]

In no way was I questioning Coach Reid. Just what the hell are they seeing we are not? Effort in practice, runs the wrong routes? What is it?

Like DJ said, they were going really vanilla and running the ball. Robinson is a better blocker, it makes sense.

Remember what Hardman did to the Ravens last year? Why show it now?

[DJ's left nut]

Lol no.

We’re here already. After a SB win and a blowout of a playoff team.

Andy Reid is picking personnel groups based on favoritism and not the guys who give us the best chance of winning. Because he’s not all that competitive or anything.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd rather have the 4th option as a speed guy. Complements Reek being on the field at the same time.

We have better possession options in Kelce and Watkins when they're on the field, so no need for another possession guy like D-Rop, who really isn't one anyway, despite being bigger.

Mecole needs to take that job away.

[BigRedChief]

Lol no.

I was being a smartass. If that was true, Dieter would have been starting. :p

[htismaqe]

We’re here already. After a SB win and a blowout of a playoff team.

Andy Reid is picking personnel groups based on favoritism and not the guys who give us the best chance of winning. Because he’s not all that competitive or anything.

I said something earlier today when talking about Gay. These guys aren't playing favorites, they're playing 4D chess. Andy is calling plays and using personnel groups against the Texans, thinking about how it's going to impact the Ravens and beyond.

When the running game is working like it was last night, there's no reason to fret about Hardman not playing.

Besides, Robinson really only had 2 egregious drops. People can bitch all they want about that first TD but when a safety has his hand on the ball, in between the WR's hands, it's going to be incomplete 90% of the time. Even Reek drops balls in that situation.

People are awfully quick to forget some of the amazing catches Robinson made last year. In fact, he had one last night that was on his outside shoulder and he stabbed it out of the air perfectly.

The guy isn't trash.

[RunKC]

I would say it says something about the progression of Mecole.

It may also be that they thought they didn’t need him and we’re going to focus on establishing the run, in which case Robinson’s a pretty physical and reliable blocker.

And Reid shows NOTHING when he has a lead. When they were up 24-7 and the running game was working, he probably just too Hardman out of the game plan.

That’s all I can think of. Well that and the fact that Tyreek and Mecole are the same type of receiver in terms of strengths (speed) but naturally Tyreek is better so he’ll get those snaps first.

Nate Taylor said Andy was very vanilla compared to what he’s seen in practice so obviously the fireworks won’t come out until probably Baltimore.

It’s just a shame seeing Robinson over a better receiver, vanilla or not. Hardman is a much better receiver.

[mlyonsd]

He dropped 2 and had one knocked out of his hands. The play in the end zone was a heater that Pat threw across his body. Not an easy catch.

Sammy Watkins has the same kind of issues from time to time. Robinson made a couple of nice grabs later in the game.

It was the first game of a season with no OTA's or preseason games.

I think the coaches know what they are doing.^ The SB bling they're wearing makes it so.

[bigjosh]

The coaching staff has to see something robinson does well that hardman doesnt yet.

My guess would be that robinson is much tighter in his routes.

Hardman is exciting, but he isn’t polished. Remember how long it took tyreek to really turn it up as a receiver.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Was thinking the same thing this morning. He's made a few really good catches but we need to upgrade from him.

[htismaqe]

That’s all I can think of. Well that and the fact that Tyreek and Mecole are the same type of receiver in terms of strengths (speed) but naturally Tyreek is better so he’ll get those snaps first.

Nate Taylor said Andy was very vanilla compared to what he’s seen in practice so obviously the fireworks won’t come out until probably Baltimore.

It’s just a shame seeing Robinson over a better receiver, vanilla or not. Hardman is a much better receiver.

Robinson is a more physical blocker. And they wanted to run the ball last night.

[Halfcan]

DRobb didn't really drop the first TD pass- he failed to secure it. The DB had his arm in there and made a nice play on the ball.

The second hit him in the hands. It was a beauty of a throw by Mahomes.

[htismaqe]

DRobb didn't really drop the first TD pass- he failed to secure it. The DB had his arm in there and made a nice play on the ball.

The second hit him in the hands. It was a beauty of a throw by Mahomes.

Yep.

[chiefzilla1501]

Two totally different receivers. Drob isn't great as 1 or a 2, but he is a great complement to our weapons. Reid has talked a lot about his ability to improv. Can't argue with results. He may have the dropsies but when we are at full force he always gets open.

[htismaqe]

Two totally different receivers. Drob isn't great as 1 or a 2, but he is a great complement to our weapons. Reid has talked a lot about his ability to improv. Can't argue with results. He may have the dropsies but when we are at full force he always gets open.

Other than Reek, he's by far the best WR on the team at ad libbing when Pat scrambles.

[Rasputin]

I'm sure it will all play out in the course of the season I still have high hopes to see Hardman compliment Tyreek Hill as an unstoppable duo to reckon with.


Last night was all about the running game with CEH and Mahomes didn't target Tyreek but a few times. Obviously Texans didn't want to give up the big play so Andy had the perfect game plan.

[Direckshun]

Robinson is a more physical blocker. And they wanted to run the ball last night.

I think this is the most likely case.

That's the same thing going on with Gay/Niemann. The Chiefs are playing matchups right now and doing a whole bunch of 4D chess. They're trying to give Niemann some time in the base D, to see if he's worth keeping there; that blocks out Gay's chances in the near term. And right now they're playing Gay behind Wilson anyway.

In dime, Gay wasn't needed. His spot was next to Niemann, but the Chiefs played DOD there all game because he spies Watson really well -- it seems that the only reason we keep DOD on the 53 is because he spies Deshaun Watson once or twice a year.

[Easy 6]

I would say it says something about the progression of Mecole.

It may also be that they thought they didn’t need him and we’re going to focus on establishing the run, in which case Robinson’s a pretty physical and reliable blocker.

And Reid shows NOTHING when he has a lead. When they were up 24-7 and the running game was working, he probably just too Hardman out of the game plan.

Like DJ said, they were going really vanilla and running the ball. Robinson is a better blocker, it makes sense.

Remember what Hardman did to the Ravens last year? Why show it now?

Bing

[Red Dawg]

Not a Robinson fan. He's unreliable.

[JakeF]

Blocking. Robinson is a really good blocker. Hardman not so much
yep


Did Robinson drop 2 or 3 touchdown passes last night?

[JakeF]

Two totally different receivers. Drob isn't great as 1 or a 2, but he is a great complement to our weapons. Reid has talked a lot about his ability to improv. Can't argue with results. He may have the dropsies but when we are at full force he always gets open.
Sorry, but this is just horseshit. Robinson has had 4 years to take over a starting position and he's fucked it up every time. When Robinson first got here our WR corp sucked and he couldn't takeover. When all the injury issues not Robinson still can't get it done.

I think Robinson has 1 good game last year and everyone started talking about what a stud he is. Then he disappeared. Robinson may have blocked well against the Texans but he dropped 2 touchdown passes and a 1st down pass which negates every fucking block he made all game long.

[htismaqe]

He dropped 1 TD pass.

The other was a great play by the defender.

But by all means, bitch on.

[RunKC]

Robinson is a more physical blocker. And they wanted to run the ball last night.

Which goes back to my point: Tyreek and Hardman are built for the same position.

Tyreek isn’t a great blocker either. He’s just a better version of Hardman so he’s not going to be out there unless Tyreek is hurt.

[htismaqe]

Which goes back to my point: Tyreek and Hardman are built for the same position.

Tyreek isn’t a great blocker either. He’s just a better version of Hardman so he’s not going to be out there unless Tyreek is hurt.

Oh they'll be out there together eventually. It just wasn't going to be last night. Andy was keeping his cards really close to the vest.

[DRM08]

He must be running better routes and blocking better. That’s the only good explanation. Sure would love to see Mecole’s speed on the field more often.

[htismaqe]

He must be running better routes and blocking better. That’s the only good explanation. Sure would love to see Mecole’s speed on the field more often.

You will when the time comes.

[Direckshun]

Oh they'll be out there together eventually. It just wasn't going to be last night. Andy was keeping his cards really close to the vest.

Also agree with this.

This team is so good now you can save the great stuff for the best competition and roll out vanilla gameplans for everyone else.

[htismaqe]

Also agree with this.

This team is so good now you can save the great stuff for the best competition and roll out vanilla gameplans for everyone else.

Yep. I fully expect to see some crazy shit against the Ravens. They're going to play the Chargers much like they did the Texans.

[RunKC]

He must be running better routes and blocking better. That’s the only good explanation. Sure would love to see Mecole’s speed on the field more often.

Andy is gonna split everyone wide in the empty formation and 11 personnel when we go to Baltimore. Their pass rush is not that great and Earl Thomas is gone.

I think Andy is going to go buck nasty on those motherfuckers bc that’s a key game for playoff seeding.

Have to agree with everyone that he’s not gonna show his hand until then, especially against a Tyrod Taylor team that we can beat scoring naturally on vanilla plays.

[Hoover]

I think it had everything to do with the game plan.

Chiefs clearly wanted to establish the run. I mean, Reid ran the ball more than he threw it. We didn't even do that with Matt Moore at QB. I think we are going to run over the Chargers too. Then in week three against the Ravens look out. Reid will open up the playbook and I expect that's when we see Willie Gay out there too.

Fun season.

[Scooter LaCanforno]

I think this is the most likely case.

That's the same thing going on with Gay/Niemann. The Chiefs are playing matchups right now and doing a whole bunch of 4D chess. They're trying to give Niemann some time in the base D, to see if he's worth keeping there; that blocks out Gay's chances in the near term. And right now they're playing Gay behind Wilson anyway.

In dime, Gay wasn't needed. His spot was next to Niemann, but the Chiefs played DOD there all game because he spies Watson really well -- it seems that the only reason we keep DOD on the 53 is because he spies Deshaun Watson once or twice a year.


What Linebacker package shows up next week when we have to contain Tyrod Taylor and Austin Ekeler ?

[Wisconsin_Chief]

It was week one. Play calling was in preseason mode. Also Hardman is still learning. Reid’s offense takes years for WRs to ace.

Reid is a strategic genius. Hardman is going to be a huge part of our late season and playoff push. Why reveal any of that now? We just demolished the 3rd best team in the AFC without even trying.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

It’s a process.

Also other cliches.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

I had/have sky high expectations for Hardman this season. Thought that all he needed to do was tighten up his release a bit and continue improving his route running over the summer. What I saw last night in terms of playing time indicates to me that maybe he didn't get this done during the off-season. It's early though, pretty small sample size. But if it turns into a trend, that's probably why.

And like some other people said, DRob is a really good blocker for a WR.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I’m guessing as others have pointed out already, that they’re saving things for future games. I’m sure he will see more time as the season goes on, but he does need to provide better execution as a blocker to get full time snaps.

[Chiefs=Champions]

I said something earlier today when talking about Gay. These guys aren't playing favorites, they're playing 4D chess. Andy is calling plays and using personnel groups against the Texans, thinking about how it's going to impact the Ravens and beyond.

When the running game is working like it was last night, there's no reason to fret about Hardman not playing.

Besides, Robinson really only had 2 egregious drops. People can bitch all they want about that first TD but when a safety has his hand on the ball, in between the WR's hands, it's going to be incomplete 90% of the time. Even Reek drops balls in that situation.

People are awfully quick to forget some of the amazing catches Robinson made last year. In fact, he had one last night that was on his outside shoulder and he stabbed it out of the air perfectly.

The guy isn't trash.

Exactly this. I think there is a reason we heard how great Clyde was looking in camp. Its mostly because the chiefs and Andy want that info out there. Why not hide how good your new running back is? Because if teams have to spend time worrying about the running game too itll open up the offense more. Its a beautiful plan and will hopefully lead to less teams playing two deep all the time.

[frozenchief]

Sorry, but this is just horseshit. Robinson has had 4 years to take over a starting position and he's fucked it up every time. When Robinson first got here our WR corp sucked and he couldn't takeover. When all the injury issues not Robinson still can't get it done.

I think Robinson has 1 good game last year and everyone started talking about what a stud he is. Then he disappeared. Robinson may have blocked well against the Texans but he dropped 2 touchdown passes and a 1st down pass which negates every fucking block he made all game long.

I agree with this.

I get that Andy doesn’t want to show his hand and he’s saving plays for later in the year and for the playoffs. But I don’t get why we have a receiver that can go toe to toe with Roberto Duran for hands of stone. We should have let DRob go and put Jody Fortson on the team. Kid was ripping it up last year and this from what I hear.

[tk13]

I do think Andy holds things back, but honestly I think the biggest thing was we had a huge lead and were trying to establish the run. You can't set it up so every time Hardman's on the field it's a pass or defense will figure that out in 2 seconds.

[DRM08]

I think it had everything to do with the game plan.

Chiefs clearly wanted to establish the run. I mean, Reid ran the ball more than he threw it. We didn't even do that with Matt Moore at QB. I think we are going to run over the Chargers too. Then in week three against the Ravens look out. Reid will open up the playbook and I expect that's when we see Willie Gay out there too.

Fun season.

I would not mind seeing KC run the ball in a big way against Baltimore. Give the Ravens a taste of their own medicine and keep Lamar on the sideline. Of course the goal is to have a fast start and force Baltimore to start throwing it way more often than they prefer.

[Halfcan]

I agree with this.

I get that Andy doesn’t want to show his hand and he’s saving plays for later in the year and for the playoffs. But I don’t get why we have a receiver that can go toe to toe with Roberto Duran for hands of stone. We should have let DRob go and put Jody Fortson on the team. Kid was ripping it up last year and this from what I hear.

That would be too unfair. All of sudden the Chiefs have a running game- plus a 7 foot tall guy that looks like a lanky Randy Moss. :clap:

On short yardage- Mahomes could take the snap, instantly throw it to Fortson- he is so tall that if he falls fowrard it would be a 1st down.

[Brody Wa]

Why show him a chess move that he doesn’t have to show, unless it’s a question of some kind of nagging pain that we don’t know about.

[Titty Meat]

Robinson is a better blocker, Hardman is a weapon on special teams, maybe Robinson runs routes better at this point etc

[JakeF]

He dropped 1 TD pass.

The other was a great play by the defender.

But by all means, bitch on.
By all means keep defending Robinson like people have for 5 years. People are so certain that Robinson is hiding all this talent yet he's had endless chances to take over a big role and never has. More than any other backup we have.

Last year he had 1 good game and fans exploded telling everyone "see, see he's great". Then he disappeared and did jack for the rest of the year. He plays all the time because he can block but never much.

78 rec/ 1000 yrds total in 5 years.

I don't get how people can be so positive that he is just waiting to explode with talent on the field.

I'm not trying to start shit, i just don't get it.

[eDave]

I mean, it's just one game. Perhaps we have more talent than required.

[alanm]

Blocking. Robinson is a really good blocker. Hardman not so muchThis. End of discussion. Chiefs ran the ball a lot.

[TRR]

Nick Jacobs had a few good thoughts on Hardman vs Robinson. He mentioned how truly green of a WR Mecole is, and called out his inability to get off press coverage last year. When allowed to run free, results were good. When pressed, results varied.

He also stated the narrative should be more about what Mecole isn’t doing to get more reps in game situations.

[eDave]

Nick Jacobs had a few good thoughts on Hardman vs Robinson. He mentioned how truly green of a WR Mecole is, and called out his inability to get off press coverage last year. When allowed to run free, results were good. When pressed, results varied.

He also stated the narrative should be more about what Mecole isn’t doing to get more reps in game situations.

Well that sucks.

[FAH-Q]

Nick Jacobs had a few good thoughts on Hardman vs Robinson. He mentioned how truly green of a WR Mecole is, and called out his inability to get off press coverage last year. When allowed to run free, results were good. When pressed, results varied.

He also stated the narrative should be more about what Mecole isn’t doing to get more reps in game situations.

I think there is truth to some of this, but it also needs to be recognized that Robinson is not a good receiver. He lives off of one or two splashy plays a year, and some of those came in preseason in years past. He was not courted in free agency and wound up back in a system he’s familiar with, has had years to refine, and still doesn’t do anything particularly well, except block. Hardman has had difficulty learning the entire route tree, that’s a given considering his role in college, but I think the upside for him is probably greater than what we KNOW it is for Robinson. We’ve been waiting for DRob to have his breakout year for awhile now.

And if we’re being honest, I don’t think any of our receivers are phenomenal at beating really good press coverage. Maybe Watkins and that depends on the press cover corner he’s matched up against. Press coverage is designed to screw up timing and rhythm, which is what this offense is predicated on. The reality is very few d-coordinators in the NFL have the balls to play press coverage against the speed we have.

[TRR]

I think there is truth to some of this, but it also needs to be recognized that Robinson is not a good receiver. He lives off of one or two splashy plays a year, and some of those came in preseason in years past. He was not courted in free agency and wound up back in a system he’s familiar with, has had years to refine, and still doesn’t do anything particularly well, except block. Hardman has difficulty learning the entire route tree, that’s a given, but I think the upside for him is probably greater than what we KNOW it is for Robinson.

Then why does he continue to get more snaps if he isn’t good? Again, to Nick’s point, it’s more about what Hardman isn’t doing. Otherwise, he would be seeing more snaps than Robinson.

[FAH-Q]

Then why does he continue to get more snaps if he isn’t good? Again, to Nick’s point, it’s more about what Hardman isn’t doing. Otherwise, he would be seeing more snaps than Robinson.

No I agree. My definition of good is really when we compare him to the talent above him, so I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. At this point he’s obviously trusted more by coaches who clearly know a hell of a lot more than I do. All I’m saying is that I wonder if it’s more beneficial to try and kick the tires on Hardman and expedite his growth potential, if you will, since I think it’s clear what we have with Robinson. Yes, it’s Hardman’s responsibility to get his stuff together and take the job away from Robinson and he obviously isn’t doing something right.

[MahiMike]

This was Andy's 3rd preseason game look. Very vanilla. He wanted to see what the robinson and the new rookies could do.

[Coogs]

Coverage was mostly zone. Maybe that played into personal packages too.

[chiefzilla1501]

I think there is truth to some of this, but it also needs to be recognized that Robinson is not a good receiver. He lives off of one or two splashy plays a year, and some of those came in preseason in years past. He was not courted in free agency and wound up back in a system he’s familiar with, has had years to refine, and still doesn’t do anything particularly well, except block. Hardman has had difficulty learning the entire route tree, that’s a given considering his role in college, but I think the upside for him is probably greater than what we KNOW it is for Robinson. We’ve been waiting for DRob to have his breakout year for awhile now.

And if we’re being honest, I don’t think any of our receivers are phenomenal at beating really good press coverage. Maybe Watkins and that depends on the press cover corner he’s matched up against. Press coverage is designed to screw up timing and rhythm, which is what this offense is predicated on. The reality is very few d-coordinators in the NFL have the balls to play press coverage against the speed we have.

I don't think people are expecting Drob to break out at this point. He's a role player. Real good blocker and bailout option. At this point the only fixable thing is consistently reliable hands. I imagine we use him more in situations where we want blocking, quick routes, and scramble drills.

[htismaqe]

By all means keep defending Robinson like people have for 5 years. People are so certain that Robinson is hiding all this talent yet he's had endless chances to take over a big role and never has. More than any other backup we have.

Last year he had 1 good game and fans exploded telling everyone "see, see he's great". Then he disappeared and did jack for the rest of the year. He plays all the time because he can block but never much.

78 rec/ 1000 yrds total in 5 years.

I don't get how people can be so positive that he is just waiting to explode with talent on the field.

I'm not trying to start shit, i just don't get it.

It's not about Robinson, it's about Hardman.

Everything said on here isn't a "defense" and it gets fucking old when all people can do is bitch and moan about a fucking DEFENDING SUPER BOWL TEAM.

If Hardman were getting it done in practice, he'd be playing. If Hardman could prove that he's capable of handling the game plan, he'd be playing.

Hardman is raw, he's not a great blocker, and the coaches put Robinson out there. If Robinson fucking sucks so bad, it shouldn't be that damn hard for Hardman to beat him out, should it?

Yet here we are.

[htismaqe]

No I agree. My definition of good is really when we compare him to the talent above him, so I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. At this point he’s obviously trusted more by coaches who clearly know a hell of a lot more than I do. All I’m saying is that I wonder if it’s more beneficial to try and kick the tires on Hardman and expedite his growth potential, if you will, since I think it’s clear what we have with Robinson. Yes, it’s Hardman’s responsibility to get his stuff together and take the job away from Robinson and he obviously isn’t doing something right.

The problem with just throwing guys into the fire to "learn" is that when things start to break down, they improvise. You don't want guys out there doing whatever and picking up bad habits or worse, blowing an assignment and losing a game.

[Oxford]

The problem with just throwing guys into the fire to "learn" is that when things start to break down, they improvise. You don't want guys out there doing whatever and picking up bad habits or worse, blowing an assignment and losing a game.

First of all, DRob must be on the roster to have his annual 3 TD game against the raiders. But understand that Andy runs a precision offense, timing, release angles etc. So I can see that if DRob shows he can do it, then he plays while Hardman doesnt. You have to earn your coaches trust and playing time. Hardman has much more upside, but the talented ones take longer because they have gotten by on talent for their careers. That is why PMII is so scary, talent, work ethic, coachability, desire to compete, leadership in one package.

[htismaqe]

First of all, DRob must be on the roster to have his annual 3 TD game against the raiders. But understand that Andy runs a precision offense, timing, release angles etc. So I can see that if DRob shows he can do it, then he plays while Hardman doesnt. You have to earn your coaches trust and playing time. Hardman has much more upside, but the talented ones take longer because they have gotten by on talent for their careers. That is why PMII is so scary, talent, work ethic, coachability, desire to compete, leadership in one package.

Exactly. That's exactly what Willie Gay was coming out - a guy that excelled in college because of sheer physical talent. Everybody knew he was a project, every scouting report said so. He'll get on the field when he's ready. Hardman will be on the field sooner rather than later too. People need to be patient.

Of course, this is CP. There were people here convinced the team was 1 and done last year at the halfway point.

[Demonpenz]

Robinsons drops is this years shady's fumbles

[crispystl]

I think this is the most likely case.

That's the same thing going on with Gay/Niemann. The Chiefs are playing matchups right now and doing a whole bunch of 4D chess. They're trying to give Niemann some time in the base D, to see if he's worth keeping there; that blocks out Gay's chances in the near term. And right now they're playing Gay behind Wilson anyway.

In dime, Gay wasn't needed. His spot was next to Niemann, but the Chiefs played DOD there all game because he spies Watson really well -- it seems that the only reason we keep DOD on the 53 is because he spies Deshaun Watson once or twice a year.


I never thought about them playing on the same team in college.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bowser]

Really, this discussion just shows what an embarrassment of riches we have at wide receiver this year if we're arguing over who should get more playing time between DeMarcus Robinson and Mecole Hardman, and don't forget that Mahomes even looked to Byron Pringle in the end zone.

Robinson is clearly the better blocker right now compared to Hardman (that was an amazing block on Roby that sprung Tyreek for 15 that Hardman likely doesn't make, not to mention what he does in the run game), but don't think Andy doesn't have a package featuring Hill, Watkins, and Hardman in his back pocket when the game is close in the fourth quarter.

[TRR]

Really, this discussion just shows what an embarrassment of riches we have at wide receiver this year if we're arguing over who should get more playing time between DeMarcus Robinson and Mecole Hardman, and don't forget that Mahomes even looked to Byron Pringle in the end zone.

Robinson is clearly the better blocker right now compared to Hardman (that was an amazing block on Roby that sprung Tyreek for 15 that Hardman likely doesn't make, not to mention what he does in the run game), but don't think Andy doesn't have a package featuring Hill, Watkins, and Hardman in his back pocket when the game is close in the fourth quarter.

That’s a good take. And no knock on Hardman either...he’s made plays when given the opportunity. But it’s easy to forget that Hardman had only 60 receptions in his entire college career, and skipped his senior season. He barely stepped on the field his freshmen year at Georgia. It just takes time.

[Chiefshrink]

The play in the end zone was a heater that Pat threw across his body. Not an easy catch.


Doesn't matter he is an NFL WR, a professional. Do your job !! Should have been caught. With that being said, I still like Robinson.:thumb:

[htismaqe]

That’s a good take. And no knock on Hardman either...he’s made plays when given the opportunity. But it’s easy to forget that Hardman had only 60 receptions in his entire college career, and skipped his senior season. He barely stepped on the field his freshmen year at Georgia. It just takes time.

Exactly.

[Chiefshrink]

Not a Robinson fan. He's unreliable.

Get your point, BUT as others have said, DRob is really an effective blocker downfield and far better than Hardman. And now that we have CEH to take some pressure off of Mahomes i.e. to playmaking I don't see DRob going to the bench anytime soon because CEH is just that more productive when the down field blocking is there.:thumb:

[gonefishin53]

I wonder if Byron Pringle could do both, catch passes and block, if given the opportunity.

[jettio]

Hardman has played coverage on special teams, so he plays physical football for a player his size. But, D-Rob is really good blocker.

I bet the gameplan had more chances for Hardman, but Texans played a novel defense and the adjustments the Chiefs made reduced his chances to play.

[duncan_idaho]

Hardman also looked to run the wrong route - to me - on the bWAR InT by Eric Murray.

[ChiefsCountry]

It's not about Robinson, it's about Hardman.

Everything said on here isn't a "defense" and it gets ****ing old when all people can do is bitch and moan about a ****ing DEFENDING SUPER BOWL TEAM.

If Hardman were getting it done in practice, he'd be playing. If Hardman could prove that he's capable of handling the game plan, he'd be playing.

Hardman is raw, he's not a great blocker, and the coaches put Robinson out there. If Robinson ****ing sucks so bad, it shouldn't be that damn hard for Hardman to beat him out, should it?

Yet here we are.

htis man you just had to quote one of the dumbest mother fers on this board when it comes to football takes.

[htismaqe]

htis man you just had to quote one of the dumbest mother fers on this board when it comes to football takes.

ROFL

It was pre-coffee and I was cranky. It won't happen again.

[DaneMcCloud]

The Chiefs truly have an amazing embarrassment of riches in terms of offensive skill position players.

The question at hand shouldn’t be “Why didn’t Hardman get more snaps?”, it should be “Can Hardman handle less snaps without complaining?”.

I’m 99.99% convinced the answer is yes.

[DRM08]

The Chiefs truly have an amazing embarrassment of riches in terms of offensive skill position players.

The question at hand shouldn’t be “Why didn’t Hardman get more snaps?”, it should be “Can Hardman handle less snaps without complaining?”.

I’m 99.99% convinced the answer is yes.

What’s very strange is I see fans of other teams complaining about how loaded KC is with weapons. But it’s not that hard to draft guys. Fast RB’s, WR’s, and tight ends are not that hard to find. I feel like Mahomes is way more rare than the Chiefs group of weapons. But I see a lot of opposing fans try to downplay what Mahomes actually is (he’s a unicorn QB). Jealousy is a stinky cologne.

[scho63]

In fairness to D Rob, the 1st pass from Mahomes was slightly under thrown, allowing the defender to get his hand and arm in there to break it up.

2nd drop was a rocket while he was falling /diving, not an easy catch at all.

3rd one was a true drop

[htismaqe]

What’s very strange is I see fans of other teams complaining about how loaded KC is with weapons. But it’s not that hard to draft guys. Fast RB’s, WR’s, and tight ends are not that hard to find. I feel like Mahomes is way more rare than the Chiefs group of weapons. But I see a lot of opposing fans try to downplay what Mahomes actually is (he’s a unicorn QB). Jealousy is a stinky cologne.

It isn't easy to find a Tyreek or Kelce.

That being said, it's much, much harder to find a top-flight QB and a guy like Mahomes is a once-a-decade-or-longer find.

[htismaqe]

In fairness to D Rob, the 1st pass from Mahomes was slightly under thrown, allowing the defender to get his hand and arm in there to break it up.

2nd drop was a rocket while he was falling /diving, not an easy catch at all.

3rd one was a true drop

The first one was a pass broken up. Reed got credit for it in the box score.

The 2nd one was a drop. Tough catch but DRob has made those catches before. He should have had it.

The 3rd one was straight up Demetrius Harris.

[RunKC]

What’s very strange is I see fans of other teams complaining about how loaded KC is with weapons. But it’s not that hard to draft guys. Fast RB’s, WR’s, and tight ends are not that hard to find. I feel like Mahomes is way more rare than the Chiefs group of weapons. But I see a lot of opposing fans try to downplay what Mahomes actually is (he’s a unicorn QB). Jealousy is a stinky cologne.

The Texans, Broncos, Raiders, Colts and other teams tried copying our formula and will see that you can’t replicate Mahomes.

49ers has a lot of weapons and an excellent running game and Jimmy Grapes was nowhere near Mahomes level.

[DRM08]

In fairness to D Rob, the 1st pass from Mahomes was slightly under thrown, allowing the defender to get his hand and arm in there to break it up.

2nd drop was a rocket while he was falling /diving, not an easy catch at all.

3rd one was a true drop

Not sure it was underthrown. Safety was gonna wipe out D-Rob on a deeper throw. Bigger issue I saw was Houston corner grabbed D-Rob jersey to help catch up to him.

[htismaqe]

Not sure it was underthrown. Safety was gonna wipe out D-Rob on a deeper throw. Bigger issue I saw was Houston corner grabbed D-Rob jersey to help catch up to him.

There was a blatant defensive hold on Reed at about the 20 yard line, maybe earlier in the route. It was before the ball was thrown.

[O.city]

There’s a chance Hardman never becomes more than a 2 or 3 route gadget type player and that’s ok.

With his speed, he can be a real weapon and good player being that. Look at desean Jackson.

[TRR]

htis man you just had to quote one of the dumbest mother fers on this board when it comes to football takes.

Who’s that?

[Great Expectations]

https://www.chiefs.com/video/field-view-demarcus-robinson-hauls-in-sick-one-handed-touchdown-from-mahomes

[rydogg58]

Who’s that?

JakeFromstatefarm.

[InChiefsHeaven]

https://www.chiefs.com/video/field-view-demarcus-robinson-hauls-in-sick-one-handed-touchdown-from-mahomes

https://www.chiefs.com/video/watch-patrick-mahomes-best-throws-of-week-1

Nice catch and run by DRob in this vid. He had a bad drop on the 2nd TD pass to him. Otherwise, he got better as the game went on. He'll be fine.

Mecole will be used when he is needed. Andy knows his shit better than anyone on this board. Relax guys...

[OKchiefs]

It's not about Robinson, it's about Hardman.

Everything said on here isn't a "defense" and it gets ****ing old when all people can do is bitch and moan about a ****ing DEFENDING SUPER BOWL TEAM.

If Hardman were getting it done in practice, he'd be playing. If Hardman could prove that he's capable of handling the game plan, he'd be playing.

Hardman is raw, he's not a great blocker, and the coaches put Robinson out there. If Robinson ****ing sucks so bad, it shouldn't be that damn hard for Hardman to beat him out, should it?

Yet here we are.

The fact that Hardman is still struggling to pick up our playbook and learn the route tree in year 2 is a bit ridiculous. We really passed on the likes of Metcalf and McLaurin for Hardman? Receiver will probably be a huge need next year because Watkins and Robinson will be gone and it's doubtful Hardman will be capable of being #2.

[OKchiefs]

There’s a chance Hardman never becomes more than a 2 or 3 route gadget type player and that’s ok.

With his speed, he can be a real weapon and good player being that. Look at desean Jackson.

It's not okay when you took that player in the 2nd round over a much more highly touted player like DK Metcalf. Metcalf is a likely 1,000 yard receiver and possible pro bowler this year. I'll be impressed if Hardman even equals his rookie stats.

[htismaqe]

DK Metcalf is what he is because the Seahawks have very little talent at WR. DK Metcalf wouldn't be what his is now in KC.

The whole "we passed on" complaint is just dumb.

[O.city]

It's not okay when you took that player in the 2nd round over a much more highly touted player like DK Metcalf. Metcalf is a likely 1,000 yard receiver and possible pro bowler this year. I'll be impressed if Hardman even equals his rookie stats.

If you're holding out hope that a 2nd round WR, becomes a well rounded ass kicker this soon, or even at all, well.... thats probably not ideal.

Hardman was taken because of his upside in this offense and at a time when Tyreek was in limbo. It is what it is.

But if he becomes DeSean Jackson 2.0 and all he can run is posts, goes, crossers etc, he could very easily be a 1000 yard guy. He's probably not ever gonna be a full route tree guy, but thats ok.

[keg in kc]

"Highly touted" doesn't mean shit. Hardman was higher on their draft board, and that's what they go by. What random "draft experts" on the interwebs think about draft prospects matters about as much as what I do. The team spends literally millions prepping for the draft. They don't just read McShay columns.

I would assume Robinson got more snaps because he's a better blocker, and we seemed to have a focus on quick passes and the running game. The approach next week may mean a different emphasis as far as personnel and packages.

[Megatron96]

Here are the facts: Mecole is a second-year WR, a WR4, who came to the team having only played a couple seasons as a WR in college. In other words, he's still pretty raw in terms of experience. And in spite of the fact that we've all seen the clips of him working on his craft this preseason, he hasn't had the coaching he might've had if this had been a normal preseason with OTAs, a real mini-camp, preseason games, etc. So his learning curve has taken a little bump for 2020.

And let's not forget that even Tyreek had his issues with beating man press coverage early in his career. In fact, if you go back and look at his performances from his second year vs. his third, you can see the development he made specifically against man press coverages. Mecole still has to make that leap.

But I've said this before for not only Mecole but several other players: it takes time for any player to fully grasp Andy Reid's playbook. Let's not forget that Andy's receivers have to learn not only their route-trees, but the route trees for every receiver in the play, in every play in the book. About two to three full seasons seems to be about average, and Mecole is only starting his second season as a Chief.

Now, on Thursday HOU played a lot of man press and focused on containing Hardman, something that a novice receiver is just going to have trouble with, the fact that Mecole doesn't have the total experience necessary to make adjustments on his own, and that he's just not a great route-runner yet, and it's not as surprising that he only saw one target.

Mecole was on the field for 19 snaps out of the Chiefs 67 offensive snaps for the game. That's about what I predicted he'd see on average for the season per game, which is up about 5-6 snaps over his average from last season.

Which is actually more than one might expect on Thursday, considering that the Chiefs only had 9 possessions throughout the game. That was a product of the fact that both teams tried to milk the clock during their respective possessions resulting in about 2-3 fewer possessions by each team, judging from their averages last season.

So by the numbers it really looks like Andy tried to get Mecole on the field, to get him as many snaps as he could.

D. Robinson, on the other hand, is a veteran NFL receiver, who's been in Andy's system for a while now, and knows the playbook about as well as anyone's going to know it at this point. And what I mean is that Robinson knows the route trees for every receiver on every play in the book, which Hardman probably hasn't committed to muscle memory yet. Plus, Robinson is just a better route-runner than Mecole at this point, the benefit of having a lot more experience at the position both in college and the NFL. Another advantage that DRob has over Mecole at this point is chemistry with his QB. DRob has been playing/practicing with Mahomes for several years, where Mecole has had just the one full season. So DRob has a much more intuitive feel for what to do when things go sideways and he has to improvise. Mecole just doesn't have that experience yet. And finally Robinson simply a better blocker.

All of that said, I still think Hardman is going to have a big year, that we can't judge anything from a single game, and that he's going to be a major contributor for the team for years to come.

But we're just going to have to be patient this year.

[htismaqe]

Here are the facts: Mecole is a second-year WR, a WR4, who came to the team having only played a couple seasons as a WR in college. In other words, he's still pretty raw in terms of experience. And in spite of the fact that we've all seen the clips of him working on his craft this preseason, he hasn't had the coaching he might've had if this had been a normal preseason with OTAs, a real mini-camp, preseason games, etc. So his learning curve has taken a little bump for 2020.

And let's not forget that even Tyreek had his issues with beating man press coverage early in his career. In fact, if you go back and look at his performances from his second year vs. his third, you can see the development he made specifically against man press coverages. Mecole still has to make that leap.

But I've said this before for not only Mecole but several other players: it takes time for any player to fully grasp Andy Reid's playbook. Let's not forget that Andy's receivers have to learn not only their route-trees, but the route trees for every receiver in the play, in every play in the book. About two to three full seasons seems to be about average, and Mecole is only starting his second season as a Chief.

Now, on Thursday HOU played a lot of man press and focused on containing Hardman, something that a novice receiver is just going to have trouble with, the fact that Mecole doesn't have the total experience necessary to make adjustments on his own, and that he's just not a great route-runner yet, and it's not as surprising that he only saw one target.

Mecole was on the field for 19 snaps out of the Chiefs 67 offensive snaps for the game. That's about what I predicted he'd see on average for the season per game, which is up about 5-6 snaps over his average from last season.

Which is actually more than one might expect on Thursday, considering that the Chiefs only had 9 possessions throughout the game. That was a product of the fact that both teams tried to milk the clock during their respective possessions resulting in about 2-3 fewer possessions by each team, judging from their averages last season.

So by the numbers it really looks like Andy tried to get Mecole on the field, to get him as many snaps as he could.

D. Robinson, on the other hand, is a veteran NFL receiver, who's been in Andy's system for a while now, and knows the playbook about as well as anyone's going to know it at this point. And what I mean is that Robinson knows the route trees for every receiver on every play in the book, which Hardman probably hasn't committed to muscle memory yet. Plus, Robinson is just a better route-runner than Mecole at this point, the benefit of having a lot more experience at the position both in college and the NFL. Another advantage that DRob has over Meocle at this point is chemistry with his QB. DRob has been playing/practicing with Mahomes for several years, where Mecole has had just the one full season. So DRob has a much more intuitive feel for what to do when things go sideways and he has to improvise. Mecole just doesn't have that experience yet. And he's simply a better blocker.

All of that said, I still think Hardman is going to have a big year, that we can't judge anything from a single game, and that he's going to be a major contributor for the team for years to come.

But we're just going to have to be patient this year.

You're right. One game does not a season make. If that's the case, Sammy Watkins is gonna win MVP and Tyreek Hill should be benched. ;)

[tatorhog]

Eh, if the team was getting killed regardless of what they did, and yet they still refused to put Hardman out there, then that would be a time to question him.

This scenario? Meh, the game was effectively over early on. There was no need to do everything. Let the rookie run the ball and get a better feel for life in the NFL.

[Kiimo]

The rain certainly was a factor as well as I'm sure somebody already mentioned

[OKchiefs]

Here are the facts: Mecole is a second-year WR, a WR4, who came to the team having only played a couple seasons as a WR in college. In other words, he's still pretty raw in terms of experience. And in spite of the fact that we've all seen the clips of him working on his craft this preseason, he hasn't had the coaching he might've had if this had been a normal preseason with OTAs, a real mini-camp, preseason games, etc. So his learning curve has taken a little bump for 2020.

And let's not forget that even Tyreek had his issues with beating man press coverage early in his career. In fact, if you go back and look at his performances from his second year vs. his third, you can see the development he made specifically against man press coverages. Mecole still has to make that leap.

But I've said this before for not only Mecole but several other players: it takes time for any player to fully grasp Andy Reid's playbook. Let's not forget that Andy's receivers have to learn not only their route-trees, but the route trees for every receiver in the play, in every play in the book. About two to three full seasons seems to be about average, and Mecole is only starting his second season as a Chief.

Now, on Thursday HOU played a lot of man press and focused on containing Hardman, something that a novice receiver is just going to have trouble with, the fact that Mecole doesn't have the total experience necessary to make adjustments on his own, and that he's just not a great route-runner yet, and it's not as surprising that he only saw one target.

Mecole was on the field for 19 snaps out of the Chiefs 67 offensive snaps for the game. That's about what I predicted he'd see on average for the season per game, which is up about 5-6 snaps over his average from last season.

Which is actually more than one might expect on Thursday, considering that the Chiefs only had 9 possessions throughout the game. That was a product of the fact that both teams tried to milk the clock during their respective possessions resulting in about 2-3 fewer possessions by each team, judging from their averages last season.

So by the numbers it really looks like Andy tried to get Mecole on the field, to get him as many snaps as he could.

D. Robinson, on the other hand, is a veteran NFL receiver, who's been in Andy's system for a while now, and knows the playbook about as well as anyone's going to know it at this point. And what I mean is that Robinson knows the route trees for every receiver on every play in the book, which Hardman probably hasn't committed to muscle memory yet. Plus, Robinson is just a better route-runner than Mecole at this point, the benefit of having a lot more experience at the position both in college and the NFL. Another advantage that DRob has over Mecole at this point is chemistry with his QB. DRob has been playing/practicing with Mahomes for several years, where Mecole has had just the one full season. So DRob has a much more intuitive feel for what to do when things go sideways and he has to improvise. Mecole just doesn't have that experience yet. And finally Robinson simply a better blocker.

All of that said, I still think Hardman is going to have a big year, that we can't judge anything from a single game, and that he's going to be a major contributor for the team for years to come.

But we're just going to have to be patient this year.

I hope you're right. My main concern is that we seem to have way too many 2nd round picks who come in extremely raw and end up taking sometimes taking 2-3 years to realize their potential. K-pass seems to finally have shown something in year 3, and now in year 4 is starting. I'm hoping Mecole Hardman is on a quicker learning curve than that. It's looking like Gay is going to take a while to get up to speed. Juan Thornhill is the obvious outlier, he's been a baller from just about the very beginning. Maybe I'm off on this, but I just feel like 2nd round picks should be able to take a starting spot sooner than later.

[htismaqe]

I hope you're right. My main concern is that we seem to have way too many 2nd round picks who come in extremely raw and end up taking sometimes taking 2-3 years to realize their potential. K-pass seems to finally have shown something in year 3, and now in year 4 is starting. I'm hoping Mecole Hardman is on a quicker learning curve than that. It's looking like Gay is going to take a while to get up to speed. Juan Thornhill is the obvious outlier, he's been a baller from just about the very beginning. Maybe I'm off on this, but I just feel like 2nd round picks should be able to take a starting spot sooner than later.

Chris Jones was a 2nd-rounder. ;)

[tatorhog]

I hope you're right. My main concern is that we seem to have way too many 2nd round picks who come in extremely raw and end up taking sometimes taking 2-3 years to realize their potential. K-pass seems to finally have shown something in year 3, and now in year 4 is starting. I'm hoping Mecole Hardman is on a quicker learning curve than that. It's looking like Gay is going to take a while to get up to speed. Juan Thornhill is the obvious outlier, he's been a baller from just about the very beginning. Maybe I'm off on this, but I just feel like 2nd round picks should be able to take a starting spot sooner than later.

I wouldn't sweat it. We're defending champs. We damn near kept our starting squads together (unlike many other teams after winning it all). We added a serious threat on offense. And we're taking coachable athletes in those 2nd/3rd round slots. Hell, I'm old enough to remember taking a 3rd rounder not so long ago that got cut before the season even started.

Guys like KPass might take a little more time, but the upside is worth the time investment.

We basically just won a game in the first half against a playoff team from last year (with a vanilla game plan), the arrows are pointed up.

[RunKC]

At this point I don’t mind if a player drafted early doesn’t start if they are actually producing for us. Danna and Wharton aren’t starters but they are certainly getting on the field and flashing.

It also doesn’t matter what position it is. If Andy wants to take an IOL with a late first rounder, fine with me. As long as that fucker is doing well on a cost effective deal.

We just need to avoid Breeland Speaks mistakes. That’s when you start getting in trouble.

[DJ's left nut]

DK Metcalf is what he is because the Seahawks have very little talent at WR. DK Metcalf wouldn't be what his is now in KC.

The whole "we passed on" complaint is just dumb.

Missing on McLauren will sting - he's just a letter perfect X in this system.

Would've made Watkins unnecessary and an easy replacement for him in the long-haul.

But Hardman can/will be a weapon in his own right. Will he ever ascend to the X role? Remains to be seen - not sure he'll ever be a precise enough route runner for that job, but there's time yet.

We're only 3 or 4 years removed from the 'you don't know what you have in a WR until year 3' era. It was just commonly accepted that guys take some time to develop at that position.

Recently that hasn't been the case, but it's still a reasonable timeline. If Hardman's capable of taking another step forward in year 3, that'll be just fine. If he's never anything more than he was last year, that's STILL better than what many/most teams will get out of their 2nd rounder.

The only real negative you can hang on him is that he's not McLauren but that's just not a fair game to play.

[Megatron96]

I hope you're right. My main concern is that we seem to have way too many 2nd round picks who come in extremely raw and end up taking sometimes taking 2-3 years to realize their potential. K-pass seems to finally have shown something in year 3, and now in year 4 is starting. I'm hoping Mecole Hardman is on a quicker learning curve than that. It's looking like Gay is going to take a while to get up to speed. Juan Thornhill is the obvious outlier, he's been a baller from just about the very beginning. Maybe I'm off on this, but I just feel like 2nd round picks should be able to take a starting spot sooner than later.

Offense, especially Andy's version of it, is always going to be harder to become proficient in than defense. Defense is a lot more about reading and reacting; offense is more about memorization and less about instincts.

And Mecole night never 'blossom' into the Tyreek-type of player we all want him to be. But in this system, with Andy as his coach and Hill as his mentor, IMO he has the absolute best opportunity to reach his potential.

And I think Hardman is progressing. His footwork off the line looked a little better to me than it did last season. He's taking less false steps. That should translate into faster get-off at the snap. But right now everything for him is about having to think about what he has to do, with the route, his footwork, his hand-fighting, and so on. That mental processing is slowing him down. It has to become reflex for him to truly exploit his speed and quickness. And that's just going to take some time. And several hundred game snaps.

That's where the loss of those preseason games is really hurting his progress. But I think by week 5-6 we'll start noticing his improvement, because I really think he's been working his ass off trying to get better.

[VAChief]

By all means keep defending Robinson like people have for 5 years. People are so certain that Robinson is hiding all this talent yet he's had endless chances to take over a big role and never has. More than any other backup we have.

Last year he had 1 good game and fans exploded telling everyone "see, see he's great". Then he disappeared and did jack for the rest of the year. He plays all the time because he can block but never much.

78 rec/ 1000 yrds total in 5 years.

I don't get how people can be so positive that he is just waiting to explode with talent on the field.

I'm not trying to start shit, i just don't get it.

First game dude. Last year, Hill, Hardman, Robinson all combined had 3 catches opening day (which matched Kelce). Damien Williams had 6.

Andy knows what he is doing.

[Aspengc8]

Here are the facts: Mecole is a second-year WR, a WR4, who came to the team having only played a couple seasons as a WR in college. In other words, he's still pretty raw in terms of experience. And in spite of the fact that we've all seen the clips of him working on his craft this preseason, he hasn't had the coaching he might've had if this had been a normal preseason with OTAs, a real mini-camp, preseason games, etc. So his learning curve has taken a little bump for 2020.

And let's not forget that even Tyreek had his issues with beating man press coverage early in his career. In fact, if you go back and look at his performances from his second year vs. his third, you can see the development he made specifically against man press coverages. Mecole still has to make that leap.

But I've said this before for not only Mecole but several other players: it takes time for any player to fully grasp Andy Reid's playbook. Let's not forget that Andy's receivers have to learn not only their route-trees, but the route trees for every receiver in the play, in every play in the book. About two to three full seasons seems to be about average, and Mecole is only starting his second season as a Chief.

Now, on Thursday HOU played a lot of man press and focused on containing Hardman, something that a novice receiver is just going to have trouble with, the fact that Mecole doesn't have the total experience necessary to make adjustments on his own, and that he's just not a great route-runner yet, and it's not as surprising that he only saw one target.

Mecole was on the field for 19 snaps out of the Chiefs 67 offensive snaps for the game. That's about what I predicted he'd see on average for the season per game, which is up about 5-6 snaps over his average from last season.

Which is actually more than one might expect on Thursday, considering that the Chiefs only had 9 possessions throughout the game. That was a product of the fact that both teams tried to milk the clock during their respective possessions resulting in about 2-3 fewer possessions by each team, judging from their averages last season.

So by the numbers it really looks like Andy tried to get Mecole on the field, to get him as many snaps as he could.

D. Robinson, on the other hand, is a veteran NFL receiver, who's been in Andy's system for a while now, and knows the playbook about as well as anyone's going to know it at this point. And what I mean is that Robinson knows the route trees for every receiver on every play in the book, which Hardman probably hasn't committed to muscle memory yet. Plus, Robinson is just a better route-runner than Mecole at this point, the benefit of having a lot more experience at the position both in college and the NFL. Another advantage that DRob has over Mecole at this point is chemistry with his QB. DRob has been playing/practicing with Mahomes for several years, where Mecole has had just the one full season. So DRob has a much more intuitive feel for what to do when things go sideways and he has to improvise. Mecole just doesn't have that experience yet. And finally Robinson simply a better blocker.

All of that said, I still think Hardman is going to have a big year, that we can't judge anything from a single game, and that he's going to be a major contributor for the team for years to come.

But we're just going to have to be patient this year.

I think you are using the route tree in the wrong context. The route tree is pretty much the same from pop-warner up the NFL. It makes play calling in the huddle fluid and familiar. I think you meant Mecole has to familiarize with playing different positions- X and Z mainly depending on packaging. Andy does have unique plays that are clearly designed with just two progressions, so mecole does indeed need to fully memorize in case Reek or another receiver goes down.

[RunKC]

Missing on McLauren will sting - he's just a letter perfect X in this system.

Would've made Watkins unnecessary and an easy replacement for him in the long-haul.

But Hardman can/will be a weapon in his own right. Will he ever ascend to the X role? Remains to be seen - not sure he'll ever be a precise enough route runner for that job, but there's time yet.

We're only 3 or 4 years removed from the 'you don't know what you have in a WR until year 3' era. It was just commonly accepted that guys take some time to develop at that position.

Recently that hasn't been the case, but it's still a reasonable timeline. If Hardman's capable of taking another step forward in year 3, that'll be just fine. If he's never anything more than he was last year, that's STILL better than what many/most teams will get out of their 2nd rounder.

The only real negative you can hang on him is that he's not McLauren but that's just not a fair game to play.

I like McLaurin a lot, but he didn’t fit what we needed at the time. Keep in mind the Chiefs knew about Tyreek’s predicament so they were absolutely locked in to getting a guy who does what Tyreek can.

Mecole was an excellent returner with elite straight line speed (admittedly said he’s closer to 4.27 than his 4.33 time at the combine) but the major difference to me was their 3 cone times. McLaurin had above a 7 second time while Hardman had a 6.75 second time which is significantly better lateral agility.
I’d consider anything at 7 or more to be below average lateral agility while anything below 6.8 to be above average lateral agility.

I think they just locked in and said “**** we have to get someone with skills like Tyreek To be able to have an adequate replacement.”

They probably didn’t care about McLaurin for those reasons, and keep in mind that at the time Tyreek’s feet were in the fire more than any other time during that investigation. Lot of people thought he was gone and Veach probably worked with the idea that he was going to be gone so that he had the worst possible situation in mind.

Assuming that was their mindset, they would be thinking to extend Sammy with that money they didn’t have to pay to Tyreek.

[Mahomes_Is_God]

Robinson is just weird. The dude is capable of amazing plays, but sometimes he just looks ****in worthless.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bt8TuiVe4Js" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

That's an amazing catch. Not a lot of recievers can pull that off. But then the dude will proceed to drop a pass that an 8 year old could grab. I have no idea.

[DJ's left nut]

I hope you're right. My main concern is that we seem to have way too many 2nd round picks who come in extremely raw and end up taking sometimes taking 2-3 years to realize their potential. K-pass seems to finally have shown something in year 3, and now in year 4 is starting. I'm hoping Mecole Hardman is on a quicker learning curve than that. It's looking like Gay is going to take a while to get up to speed. Juan Thornhill is the obvious outlier, he's been a baller from just about the very beginning. Maybe I'm off on this, but I just feel like 2nd round picks should be able to take a starting spot sooner than later.

Less than 1/2 the 2nd round picks taken become starters at ALL during their rookie contract.

Just expecting a 2nd rounder to become a starting player in his 1st year is unreasonable. Really, expecting him to become one at all is asking far more than is ordinary.

Hardman's development curve is fine. He came from a system that didn't ask him to do much and did very little to refine his technical skills. It will take a year for him to understand what those are and another year for them to become second nature.

Things are progressing as reasonably as one could expect - more quickly than most, in fact.

[DJ's left nut]

I like McLaurin a lot, but he didn’t fit what we needed at the time. Keep in mind the Chiefs knew about Tyreek’s predicament so they were absolutely locked in to getting a guy who does what Tyreek can.

Mecole was an excellent returner with elite straight line speed (admittedly said he’s closer to 4.27 than his 4.33 time at the combine) but the major difference to me was their 3 cone times. McLaurin had above a 7 second time while Hardman had a 6.75 second time which is significantly better lateral agility.
I’d consider anything at 7 or more to be below average lateral agility while anything below 6.8 to be above average lateral agility.

I think they just locked in and said “**** we have to get someone with skills like Tyreek To be able to have an adequate replacement.”

They probably didn’t care about McLaurin for those reasons, and keep in mind that at the time Tyreek’s feet were in the fire more than any other time during that investigation. Lot of people thought he was gone and Veach probably worked with the idea that he was going to be gone so that he had the worst possible situation in mind.

Assuming that was their mindset, they would be thinking to extend Sammy with that money they didn’t have to pay to Tyreek.

I don't disagree. They thought they were about to have a leg kicked out from under their stool and did they best they could to try to approximate it in the draft.

I think Hardman was exactly what you're suggesting he was - a replacement for Hill w/ Hill's money likely earmarked for Hardman. Brooke Pryor rat-fucked us a bit here.

I'm not blaming Veach for anything here (though I did say I wanted Mclaurin at the time, even w/ the Hill stuff - my philosophy was that you can't replace Hill so don't try). I'm just saying that McLaurin suuuuuuure would've been a nice fit here long-term knowing what we know now about Hill.

Thanks again, Jabba. Cunt.

[htismaqe]

Robinson is just weird. The dude is capable of amazing plays, but sometimes he just looks ****in worthless.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bt8TuiVe4Js" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

That's an amazing catch. Not a lot of recievers can pull that off. But then the dude will proceed to drop a pass that an 8 year old could grab. I have no idea.

Yep. I said that the other day, too. For every mind-numbing drop he has, he also has a mind-boggling catch.

[DJ's left nut]

Offense, especially Andy's version of it, is always going to be harder to become proficient in than defense. Defense is a lot more about reading and reacting; offense is more about memorization and less about instincts.

And Mecole night never 'blossom' into the Tyreek-type of player we all want him to be. But in this system, with Andy as his coach and Hill as his mentor, IMO he has the absolute best opportunity to reach his potential.

And I think Hardman is progressing. His footwork off the line looked a little better to me than it did last season. He's taking less false steps. That should translate into faster get-off at the snap. But right now everything for him is about having to think about what he has to do, with the route, his footwork, his hand-fighting, and so on. That mental processing is slowing him down. It has to become reflex for him to truly exploit his speed and quickness. And that's just going to take some time. And several hundred game snaps.

That's where the loss of those preseason games is really hurting his progress. But I think by week 5-6 we'll start noticing his improvement, because I really think he's been working his ass off trying to get better.

We had a whole thread 'round here talking about Adams/Jones, etc... and there were a few people who thought Adams was a #2 receiver.

Man - watch that guy's feet. They may be the best in the business. He was at it again on Sunday - he's just impossible to get your hands on at the line because he does so much with his feet that you can't prepare for what he's gonna do.

He puts on a clinic every week with that kind of stuff. He's a textbook example of how many little things WRs have to do well to be truly versatile. The position is so much harder than "be tall, run fast, catch with your hands..."

[staylor26]

We had a whole thread 'round here talking about Adams/Jones, etc... and there were a few people who thought Adams was a #2 receiver.

Man - watch that guy's feet. They may be the best in the business. He was at it again on Sunday - he's just impossible to get your hands on at the line because he does so much with his feet that you can't prepare for what he's gonna do.

He puts on a clinic every week with that kind of stuff. He's a textbook example of how many little things WRs have to do well to be truly versatile. The position is so much harder than "be tall, run fast, catch with your hands..."

Mecca and Detoxing definitely need to watch yesterday’s game since they don’t think Adam’s is a top 10 WR.

[DRM08]

It's also possible that Andy is holding back Mecole to unleash him on teams like the Ravens, New England, and Buffalo. They don't need him to easily beat Houston or Chargers. He was a difference maker last year in both the New England and Baltimore games. When an elite defense does a great job covering all your top guys, Mecole's speed can be a major difference going against one of the weaker secondary guys on these teams.

[Megatron96]

I think you are using the route tree in the wrong context. The route tree is pretty much the same from pop-warner up the NFL. It makes play calling in the huddle fluid and familiar. I think you meant Mecole has to familiarize with playing different positions- X and Z mainly depending on packaging. Andy does have unique plays that are clearly designed with just two progressions, so mecole does indeed need to fully memorize in case Reek or another receiver goes down.

Probably. Wrote that entirely without the benefit of coffee. Though some of the routes I've seen by Andy's Chiefs don't look like anything I ever saw in Pop Warner.But that was 40 years ago, so maybe PW got a lot more professional-looking.

Whatever. My point was that every receiver in Andy's offense has to learn every other receiver's patterns for every play in the playbook. And it's more than just in case a player goes down with an injury. Andy will run the same plays with receivers at different positions.

For example, I believe in the week 14(?) Patsies game, we saw a version of the WASP with Hardman running Hill's route, while Hill ran something else on the far side of the field. And I believe we saw another version of it in 2018 with Robinson (I think) running Watkins' route.

Anyway, that's part of Andy's design, as far as I can tell without full-diving into each passing play from every game over the last 3 years. Andy will design very similar plays with the receivers lined up in other positions than they were running weeks, months or years ago. It's a nasty bit of legere-de-main by Ried, because not only does he run several different plays from the same play design, but he also moves the skill guys around in the play to make things even more confusing for defenses.

[Megatron96]

We had a whole thread 'round here talking about Adams/Jones, etc... and there were a few people who thought Adams was a #2 receiver.

Man - watch that guy's feet. They may be the best in the business. He was at it again on Sunday - he's just impossible to get your hands on at the line because he does so much with his feet that you can't prepare for what he's gonna do.

He puts on a clinic every week with that kind of stuff. He's a textbook example of how many little things WRs have to do well to be truly versatile. The position is so much harder than "be tall, run fast, catch with your hands..."

Yeah, Adams is elite in all respects. His footwork and hand-fighting are among the best in the league eight now. He just doesn't waste steps and he blows right through defender's attempts to hand-check him.

Footwork is where I thought Metcalf would have trouble last season. His footwork is sloppy and specifically it's very wide, which slows him down. I liked Hardman's more compact footwork at the break a lot better before last season started. And I still think it will be easier for Hardman to progress down the line than it will be for DK.

[Mecca]

Yeah, Adams is elite in all respects. His footwork and hand-fighting are among the best in the league eight now. He just doesn't waste steps and he blows right through defender's attempts to hand-check him.

Footwork is where I thought Metcalf would have trouble last season. His footwork is sloppy and specifically it's very wide, which slows him down. I liked Hardman's more compact footwork at the break a lot better before last season started. And I still think it will be easier for Hardman to progress down the line than it will be for DK.

Metcalf is so big he doesn't have to be perfect, he can outrun you in a straight line then high point the ball and you're fucked.

[Megatron96]

Metcalf is so big he doesn't have to be perfect, he can outrun you in a straight line then high point the ball and you're ****ed.

He's so big he runs over a lot of DBs, part of the inherent advantage of being 30+ lbs. heavier than most NFL DBs. It's like he's playing bump-and-run in reverse.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, Adams is elite in all respects. His footwork and hand-fighting are among the best in the league eight now. He just doesn't waste steps and he blows right through defender's attempts to hand-check him.

Footwork is where I thought Metcalf would have trouble last season. His footwork is sloppy and specifically it's very wide, which slows him down. I liked Hardman's more compact footwork at the break a lot better before last season started. And I still think it will be easier for Hardman to progress down the line than it will be for DK.

Now you're getting into the whole floor vs. ceiling debate.

DK Metcalf looks good now but will he ever be better? Is he already at his ceiling?

Sure, it would be nice if Hardman were great right now but do we really need him to be with Reek, Sammy, Kelce, etc.? If Hardman really emerges a couple of years from now and Reek falls off a cliff for some reason, we'll be much better for it.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Chris Jones was a 2nd-rounder. ;)

Juan Thornhill as well.

For all the bitching about second rounders, I think we've done alright if we stack the Chiefs up against other teams.

And while Mecole may never be a 'star', he can be a big time playmaker in this offense and his skillset will be very useful to the Chiefs offense going forward.

[DJ's left nut]

He's so big he runs over a lot of DBs, part of the inherent advantage of being 30+ lbs. heavier than most NFL DBs. It's like he's playing bump-and-run in reverse.

Plays a lot like TO did in his later years.

Younger TO had far looser hips but TO in his Dallas and Philly years was often just bodying guys off the ball and knocking them out of the way.

I could see Metcalf having peak seasons similar to what Owens was doing later in his career. I also don't think he'll age very well because if/when he loses a step and his agility takes another step back, I'm not sure what he'll be able to do at that point.

A guy like Vincent Jackson was a 'be big and fast and high-point dudes' kind of WR and was effectively done at 31.

[Megatron96]

Now you're getting into the whole floor vs. ceiling debate.

DK Metcalf looks good now but will he ever be better? Is he already at his ceiling?

Sure, it would be nice if Hardman were great right now but do we really need him to be with Reek, Sammy, Kelce, etc.? If Hardman really emerges a couple of years from now and Reek falls off a cliff for some reason, we'll be much better for it.

Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack the debate. I'm still walking around in a bit of a fuzz today.

At the draft, I thought DK was more of a project than Hardman, mostly because I hated how he wasted steps and i thought that would hurt him more at the NFL level.

Obviously I was wrong, and/or SEA found a way to minimize the issue. Which I think is probably what happened. Though I haven't seen Sunday's game to be sure.

But from what little I saw last season, it looked like SEA had him running a small number of routes, and they weren't asking him to play like a smaller, quicker more polished WR. They had him running a lot of downfield routes, that take time to develop and where his footwork wasn't going to hurt him as much as it would in small spaces. I'm assuming they're just having him do more of the same this season.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail anything, so I'll stop taking about DK's development or lack thereof.

[Megatron96]

Plays a lot like TO did in his later years.

Younger TO had far looser hips but TO in his Dallas and Philly years was often just bodying guys off the ball and knocking them out of the way.

I could see Metcalf having peak seasons similar to what Owens was doing later in his career. I also don't think he'll age very well because if/when he loses a step and his agility takes another step back, I'm not sure what he'll be able to do at that point.

A guy like Vincent Jackson was a 'be big and fast and high-point dudes' kind of WR and was effectively done at 31.

Yeah, with respect to VJ I saw exactly what you describe. I thought he'd be a monster for 10+ years, but didn't see his limitations until it was obvious to everyone else.

[htismaqe]

Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack the debate. I'm still walking around in a bit of a fuzz today.

At the draft, I thought DK was more of a project than Hardman, mostly because I hated how he wasted steps and i thought that would hurt him more at the NFL level.

Obviously I was wrong, and/or SEA found a way to minimize the issue. Which I think is probably what happened. Though I haven't seen Sunday's game to be sure.

But from what little I saw last season, it looked like SEA had him running a small number of routes, and they weren't asking him to play like a smaller, quicker more polished WR. They had him running a lot of downfield routes, that take time to develop and where his footwork wasn't going to hurt him as much as it would in small spaces. I'm assuming they're just having him do more of the same this season.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail anything, so I'll stop taking about DK's development or lack thereof.

Oh, it's a relevant part of the discussion. I didn't want to insinuate you were getting us off track. :thumb:

[Megatron96]

Oh, it's a relevant part of the discussion. I didn't want to insinuate you were getting us off track. :thumb:

Thanks. Been a day. Didn't get back home until after 3:10 am, had to unpack the truck, so that was an hour, put the left-over food away, eat something, take a shower, then finally to bed. Probably around 5 before I shut my eyes. Then up again around 10 am. Feeling all of that today. Probably would have a hard time spelling my name right now.

[DJ's left nut]

Now you're getting into the whole floor vs. ceiling debate.

DK Metcalf looks good now but will he ever be better? Is he already at his ceiling?

Sure, it would be nice if Hardman were great right now but do we really need him to be with Reek, Sammy, Kelce, etc.? If Hardman really emerges a couple of years from now and Reek falls off a cliff for some reason, we'll be much better for it.

Though at a point, especially if you're utilizing stars and scrubs to a degree in your roster building, don't you need to start drafting more floor?

You have ceiling all up and down this roster. And as a guiding principal I agree - ceiling wins.

But again the true 'fair' analysis there is Hardman vs. Mclaurin. Hardman's ceiling is higher because he can do just unreal stuff if he gets everything figured out. Mclaurin's floor, OTOH, was evidently a #2 WR from the moment he was drafted.

I'm not saying you start worrying exclusively about it - but this team's cap situation over the next 2-4 years will mean they will have to be pretty creative in finding cheap, productive players. At times that's gonna mean drafting for floor instead of ceiling.

To use a different position entirely - Gay vs. Logan Wilson. I'd have taken Gay because I love the dude's ceiling. But his floor is out of the league in 3 years. Wilson, OTOH, is probably gonna do this for 5+ years even if he's never a stud. And right now Gay can't see the field while Wilson had himself a solid debut in Cincy.

There will be some times in the near future where Veach may need to find himself more Logan Wilson's than Willie Gays if we start having cap constraints that prevent quality veteran depth.

[htismaqe]

Though at a point, especially if you're utilizing stars and scrubs to a degree in your roster building, don't you need to start drafting more floor?

You have ceiling all up and down this roster. And as a guiding principal I agree - ceiling wins.

But again the true 'fair' analysis there is Hardman vs. Mclaurin. Hardman's ceiling is higher because he can do just unreal stuff if he gets everything figured out. Mclaurin's floor, OTOH, was evidently a #2 WR from the moment he was drafted.

I'm not saying you start worrying exclusively about it - but this team's cap situation over the next 2-4 years will mean they will have to be pretty creative in finding cheap, productive players. At times that's gonna mean drafting for floor instead of ceiling.

To use a different position entirely - Gay vs. Logan Wilson. I'd have taken Gay because I love the dude's ceiling. But his floor is out of the league in 3 years. Wilson, OTOH, is probably gonna do this for 5+ years even if he's never a stud. And right now Gay can't see the field while Wilson had himself a solid debut in Cincy.

There will be some times in the near future where Veach may need to find himself more Logan Wilson's than Willie Gays if we start having cap constraints that prevent quality veteran depth.

Oh don't get me wrong. You absolutely have to draft both. The Chiefs just happen to be in a situation now where they can draft for ceiling at a position like WR. Given how the LB's looked the other night, you could probably make a case that the situation is less clear at LB, at least right now.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Juan Thornhill as well.

For all the bitching about second rounders, I think we've done alright if we stack the Chiefs up against other teams.

And while Mecole may never be a 'star', he can be a big time playmaker in this offense and his skillset will be very useful to the Chiefs offense going forward.I feel like we're minimizing Hardman's impact on the return game as well.

[Chiefshrink]

The only real negative you can hang on him is that he's not McLauren but that's just not a fair game to play.

Agreed. They are 2 different type of players.;)

[RunKC]

4 games in and I have to agree with this. Mecole seems like a mostly glorified ST’s player and overall specialist. I want to see him get more involved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mecole is like four deep balls from being De&#39;Anthony Thomas to this point in his career. Special teams, gadget play behind the LOS, and a few deep balls. I don&#39;t love his progression through 20 games.</p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1313313122925588482?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[kcclone]

4 games in and I have to agree with this. Mecole seems like a mostly glorified ST’s player and overall specialist. I want to see him get more involved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mecole is like four deep balls from being De&#39;Anthony Thomas to this point in his career. Special teams, gadget play behind the LOS, and a few deep balls. I don&#39;t love his progression through 20 games.</p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1313313122925588482?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


4 deep TD’s is still a pretty big deal through 1.25 seasons.

Hardman is not Tyreek 2.0 but he’s way better than DAT.

[The Franchise]

4 games in and I have to agree with this. Mecole seems like a mostly glorified ST’s player and overall specialist. I want to see him get more involved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mecole is like four deep balls from being De&#39;Anthony Thomas to this point in his career. Special teams, gadget play behind the LOS, and a few deep balls. I don&#39;t love his progression through 20 games.</p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1313313122925588482?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Were people expecting a WR that was going to soak up targets like an Edelman? Hardman is doing exactly what’s asked of him. Be another deep threat that defenses have to figure out how to cover. He also allows us to have another speedy WR on the field if Hill needs a breather.

People seem to forget that he’s basically the 4th-5th option in this offense.

[DJ's left nut]

You just kinda have to acknowledge the situation the Chiefs found themselves in at the time the pick was made.

I think they were pretty sure that Hill was gone and Hardman was needed as a field-stretcher from the Z (or, more likely, from the X w/ Watkins sliding over to the Z). Watkins role would've been completely re-imagined and the Hill money likely would've gone to Watkins long-term. At that point Hardman is a complementary player to Watkins over the next several years.

Well we know how the Hill thing worked out and Hardman just isn't the sort of player that Watkins is. And setting aside ability to focus strictly on style, he's not the kind of player Robinson is either.

He got layered. Not through his own doing, but it just happened. So it became important to try to develop him in a way that he can become a complementary player to Hill and in the process continue to make meaningful contributions to the offense.

He's getting there. It's coming along. He's making more plays in holes in the zone and/or on intermediate routes than he used to. He's slooooowly developing into a guy who can play the Robinson role (which is harder than its given credit for given how often that Y receiver is moved around; really complex route tree for that guy).

And I suspect next year we'll see him in the X, which can actually be watered down quite a bit in Andy's system to make it easier. It's what we did when we had a bum like Donnie Avery playing the X way back when. But that's not something you do on a play to play basis so right now, he's just not a viable X player.

So when Watkins goes, I imagine we'll see an altered vision of the X receiver and it will be something similar to what Reid did in 2011 w/ Maclin and Jackson, with Hardman playing a similar style to Jackson and Hill being a super-charged Maclin.

Hardman just got stuck in a style mis-match because he was never drafted to complement Hill - he was drafted to complement Watkins. And he'd have done that well, but that's not where we find ourselves.

[stevieray]

I like Robinson, his block on the DB @ the goal line was killer.

[staylor26]

4 games in and I have to agree with this. Mecole seems like a mostly glorified ST’s player and overall specialist. I want to see him get more involved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mecole is like four deep balls from being De&#39;Anthony Thomas to this point in his career. Special teams, gadget play behind the LOS, and a few deep balls. I don&#39;t love his progression through 20 games.</p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1313313122925588482?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is a stupid fucking take.

[DJ's left nut]

I like Robinson, his block on the DB @ the goal line was killer.

I am 100% certain that Andy has referred to him as "Dirty tough" at some point.

Which is about as high praise as you'll hear from Andy Reid.

Robinson does a lot of unappreciated grunt-work. And despite a reputation as kinda being stupid coming out of Florida, his role has a lot of responsibilities that he seems capable of handling pretty well.

Ultimately we'd notice the places where Hardman is better than D-Rob, but we'll probably overlook the places where Robinson is better than Hardman. And ultimately the coaches don't. And that's why Robinson is still getting the run that many would like to see Hardman getting.

[DJ's left nut]

This is a stupid fucking take.

It's not where I'd be planting my flag, no.

Odd to me that someone with an actual reputation is willing to stake that position, to be honest.

I wouldn't try to make that argument based on tarnishing whatever slim CP 'rep' I have 'round here. Whereas Swanson actually makes a living off his.

It's just a really REALLY lazy analysis from someone w/ the platform to do a far better job than that.

[Mecca]

They trust Robinson more, also lets remember for the talent Hardman is not a refined WR, he isn't polished and basically gets by on talent more than anything.

[RunKC]

It's not where I'd be planting my flag, no.

Odd to me that someone with an actual reputation is willing to stake that position, to be honest.

I wouldn't try to make that argument based on tarnishing whatever slim CP 'rep' I have 'round here. Whereas Swanson actually makes a living off his.

It's just a really REALLY lazy analysis from someone w/ the platform to do a far better job than that.

Robinson isn’t very good. He’s more competent at blocking then he is at actually playing receiver. The fact that he is playing ahead of Hardman is incredibly annoying, especially when he’s consistently fucking up.

To this point, Mecole has not been used much in a full time role, unless you consider his full time role as a gadget player. I want to see his role expanded. I want him taking Robinson’s snaps but he isn’t.

The problem here is likely that he hasn’t developed much from last year to overtake Robinson. I trust the coaches enough to make that call. Whether it’s blocking or route running something is just not there. I get that we have Tyreek and Sammy, but we’re constantly in 11 personnel and sometimes empty packages.

At this point it seems like the role for Hardman isn’t needed as much bc Tyreek was never charged/released and he is playing the position.

It’s a more than legitimate discussion.

[ModSocks]

4 games in and I have to agree with this. Mecole seems like a mostly glorified ST’s player and overall specialist. I want to see him get more involved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mecole is like four deep balls from being De&#39;Anthony Thomas to this point in his career. Special teams, gadget play behind the LOS, and a few deep balls. I don&#39;t love his progression through 20 games.</p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1313313122925588482?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What a weird, weird morning on Chiefsplanet.

Chiefs fans are inventing shit to be upset about because a 16point blowout win wasn't satisfactory enough.

LMAO

[CasselGotPeedOn]

What a weird, weird morning on Chiefsplanet.

Chiefs fans are inventing shit to be upset about because a 16point blowout win wasn't satisfactory enough.

LMAO

RunKC has been menstruating the last 24 hours

[DJ's left nut]

Robinson isn’t very good. He’s more competent at blocking then he is at actually playing receiver. The fact that he is playing ahead of Hardman is incredibly annoying, especially when he’s consistently fucking up.

To this point, Mecole has not been used much in a full time role, unless you consider his full time role as a gadget player. I want to see his role expanded. I want him taking Robinson’s snaps but he isn’t.

The problem here is likely that he hasn’t developed much from last year to overtake Robinson. I trust the coaches enough to make that call. Whether it’s blocking or route running something is just not there. I get that we have Tyreek and Sammy, but we’re constantly in 11 personnel and sometimes empty packages.

At this point it seems like the role for Hardman isn’t needed as much bc Tyreek was never charged/released and he is playing the position.

It’s a more than legitimate discussion.

Sure. It's just a really short one.

At this point it seems like the role for Hardman isn’t needed as much bc Tyreek was never charged/released and he is playing the position.

There.

Done and done.

What the fuck does D'Anthony Thomas have to do with anything?

[DJ's left nut]

What a weird, weird morning on Chiefsplanet.

Chiefs fans are inventing shit to be upset about because a 16point blowout win wasn't satisfactory enough.

LMAO

Dude.

We've had people calling for Andy to be fired for 5+ years because of a half dozen instances where we didn't win by enough.

You ain't new here...

[gold_and_red]

If the complaint against Mecole is making the rounds then it is safe to say that the quality bar is considerably high.
I think the point that Kent is trying to make is when defenses are hell bent on taking away from Hill and Kelce and put their best defender on Watkins then WRs3 and 4 must be much more visible. And Hardman was drafted as though Hill was gone.

[htismaqe]

Robinson isn’t very good. He’s more competent at blocking then he is at actually playing receiver. The fact that he is playing ahead of Hardman is incredibly annoying, especially when he’s consistently fucking up.

To this point, Mecole has not been used much in a full time role, unless you consider his full time role as a gadget player. I want to see his role expanded. I want him taking Robinson’s snaps but he isn’t.

The problem here is likely that he hasn’t developed much from last year to overtake Robinson. I trust the coaches enough to make that call. Whether it’s blocking or route running something is just not there. I get that we have Tyreek and Sammy, but we’re constantly in 11 personnel and sometimes empty packages.

At this point it seems like the role for Hardman isn’t needed as much bc Tyreek was never charged/released and he is playing the position.

It’s a more than legitimate discussion.

Robinson isn't playing INSTEAD of Hardman.

This is the Willie Gay thing all over again.

Gay isn't playing over Niemann because they don't play the same damn position.

Hardman and Robinson have different roles and are going to be used differently.

[htismaqe]

There.

Done and done.

What the fuck does D'Anthony Thomas have to do with anything?

Exactly.

They drafted Hardman to replace Tyreek and then Hill was cleared. Simple as that.

[RunKC]

Sure. It's just a really short one.



There.

Done and done.

What the **** does D'Anthony Thomas have to do with anything?

Mecole is a 2nd rd receiver who is 4th on the depth chart and is mostly doing the same role DAT is.

Regardless of Tyreek being the top player or Mecole’s blocking, we throw the ball. A ton. There’s plenty of opportunities there for Mecole. Except there isn’t bc Robinson is taking a lot of those snaps.

Wondering why we aren’t including Mecole in the offense more in a heavy pass offense (Aside from gadget plays) is a legit discussion.

Some of the posters here are extra sensitive about this for some reason. It’s not criticizing Mecole. It’s actually pointing to him being really good and wondering why the most creative staff in the league isn’t giving him more opportunities.

[htismaqe]

Mecole is a 2nd rd receiver who is 4th on the depth chart and is mostly doing the same role DAT is.

Regardless of Tyreek being the top player or Mecole’s blocking, we throw the ball. A ton. There’s plenty of opportunities there for Mecole. Except there isn’t bc Robinson is taking a lot of those snaps.

Wondering why we aren’t including Mecole in the offense more in a heavy pass offense (Aside from gadget plays) is a legit discussion.

Some of the posters here are extra sensitive about this for some reason. It’s not criticizing Mecole. It’s actually pointing to him being really good and wondering why the most creative staff in the league isn’t giving him more opportunities.

Because the most creative staff in the league has legitimate reasons to use Robinson in those situations.

[DJ's left nut]

Mecole is a 2nd rd receiver who is 4th on the depth chart and is mostly doing the same role DAT is.

Regardless of Tyreek being the top player or Mecole’s blocking, we throw the ball. A ton. There’s plenty of opportunities there for Mecole. Except there isn’t bc Robinson is taking a lot of those snaps.

Wondering why we aren’t including Mecole in the offense more in a heavy pass offense (Aside from gadget plays) is a legit discussion.

Some of the posters here are extra sensitive about this for some reason. It’s not criticizing Mecole. It’s actually pointing to him being really good and wondering why the most creative staff in the league isn’t giving him more opportunities.

Because Robinson is a player who's snaps don't interfere with the ability of the REST of the offense to do it's job at its highest level. He doesn't go to the wrong spot on the field and screw up traffic. He doesn't miss downfield blocks.

To try to force Hardman onto the field consistently would be at the expense of other, better players. It would take away from the ability of the rest of the offense to function at a high level.

A complementary depth player must be complementary. That's what you just keep ignoring despite it haven been repeated several times. Hardman's tool-set isn't as varied as Robinsons. He's not someone who allows the rest of the offense to function at as high a level as Robinson does.

Sure, he may do more with his opportunities than Robinson would, but he's nothing resembling the focal point of this offense and so that's a secondary concern. Right now the 3rd WR on this team needs to be the guy who does the most to help Hill, Watkins, Kelce and CEH capitalize on their opportunities.

I think it's pretty clear that Robinson does that. Stop trying to view this as 'Robinson vs. Hardman' in a vacuum - this system just does not work that way.

It's all a question of how Robinson's skills complement the 'key' players in this offense vs. how Hardman's skills do. It's the same conversation that was had on Jonathan Taylor vs. CEH. The key to any player getting run in this system is how they mesh within a scheme built around Hill/Kelce/Watkins. And until Hardman forces himself into THAT triumvirate, his complementary talents will matter more than his primary ones.

And right now Robinson trumps him there.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

This is a stupid ****ing take.

Rubbed me the wrong way too.

He’s the 5th option behind 4 Pro Bowl quality players. I mean ****.

His efficiency is through the roof. Robinson is a glorified perimeter blocker out there and if they feel they need that over another 25 snaps for Hardman, whatever, I get it.

I just don’t understand what people expect from guys like Hardman or Watkins in terms of production when they have Kelce, Hill, and CEH eating 80% of the pie.

[RunKC]

Because the most creative staff in the league has legitimate reasons to use Robinson in those situations.

Or they’re saving the Mecole plays for later :evil:

[493rd]

A better question would be what has happened to us effectively stretching the field with deep balls? Mahomes has missed a few, but it seems that most often teams have taken the stance that they’re going to stop it at any cost. However, with the speed of Hill, Watkins, Robinson, and Hardman, you’d think we’d be able to get a few every game.

[O.city]

With as great as he is, Mahomes still tends to struggle a bit with deep balls. He throws them to flat IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

A better question would be what has happened to us effectively stretching the field with deep balls? Mahomes has missed a few, but it seems that most often teams have taken the stance that they’re going to stop it at any cost. However, with the speed of Hill, Watkins, Robinson, and Hardman, you’d think we’d be able to get a few every game.

It's REALLY hard to find deep passes against 2-deep safety looks, especially when they're selling out to stop it.

All you can do at that point is try to build on some of your own tendencies to create mistakes. And that's something that Reid's not going to unveil unless he has to.

A vanilla offensive approach against a 2-safety set is just not going to yield many deep looks. Andy was fine with that and was willing to try to go to the run game to punish that approach.

The run game mis-fired. Shit happens.

[DaneMcCloud]

The run game mis-fired. Shit happens.

Did anyone else notice the distinct lack of Darwin Thompson last night?

The guy didn't get a single snap versus the Patriots.

I hope that's a sign they're done with him and scouring 53's and Practice Squads across the league.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Did anyone else notice the distinct lack of Darwin Thompson last night?

The guy didn't get a single snap last night. I hope that's a sign they're done with him and scouring 53's and Practice Squads across the league.

The experiment needs to be done. Every time he gets a chance it is mental lapse after mental lapse. Even in his shining moment recovering the fumbled kickoff against the Texans last year, he was lost.

RB2 is this team’s top need right now and I’m not sure it’s close.

[ModSocks]

Did anyone else notice the distinct lack of Darwin Thompson last night?

.

Yes! I was thinking that last night and meant to mention it today.

[DaneMcCloud]

The experiment needs to be done. Every time he gets a chance it is mental lapse after mental lapse. Even in his shining moment recovering the fumbled kickoff against the Texans last year, he was lost.

RB2 is this team’s top need right now and I’m not sure it’s close.

Dude, I've been saying this since the 2019 season ended.

The Chiefs really need to find a #2 guy right away because if CEH misses even two quarters, the Chiefs could be in big trouble with Darrel Williams and Darwin Award Thompson.

I'd rather have Sammy Watkins and Anthony Sherman out there as their running backs.

[BigRedChief]

You just kinda have to acknowledge the situation the Chiefs found themselves in at the time the pick was made.

I think they were pretty sure that Hill was gone.No, thats wrong. We now know that the NFL and the Chiefs had the tape all along of the wife admitting that Hill was innocent. We didn't know the tape even existed but they did and had possession of it from the beginning.

[RunKC]

It continues. Another stupid ass penalty by Robinson and the motherfucker blows an open TD by running out of the end zone LMAO

At this point I don’t care if it’s Hardman. Get Pringle in there. He can block and has better hands.

It’s crazy that Sammy and Kelce are the only reliable big receivers on this team. It’s honestly a big need of ours.

It makes me really miss Chris Conley. Say whatever you want avo it the guy, he was better than Robinson and did an admirable job replacing Sammy in 2018.

[Megatron96]

It continues. Another stupid ass penalty by Robinson and the mother****er blows an open TD by running out of the end zone LMAO

At this point I don’t care if it’s Hardman. Get Pringle in there. He can block and has better hands.

It’s crazy that Sammy and Kelce are the only reliable big receivers on this team. It’s honestly a big need of ours.

It makes me really miss Chris Conley. Say whatever you want avo it the guy, he was better than Robinson and did an admirable job replacing Sammy in 2018.

Uh, DRob "ran out of the end zone" because that's where Patrick threw the ball.

[htismaqe]

Uh, DRob "ran out of the end zone" because that's where Patrick threw the ball.

No shit. That throw wasn't even close to catchable.

[Megatron96]

No shit. That throw wasn't even close to catchable.

But it's DRob's fault he's not 11 feet tall!!!

[comochiefsfan]

Neither one of them has done jack all this season.

[BWillie]

But it's DRob's fault he's not 11 feet tall!!!

Dick Vermeil, is that you?

[DaneMcCloud]

No shit. That throw wasn't even close to catchable.

Robinson has exactly 50 yards receiving through 5 games.

He's still stealing money from the Clark's.

[htismaqe]

Neither one of them has done jack all this season.

Wow.

[htismaqe]

Robinson has exactly 50 yards receiving through 5 games.

He's still stealing money from the Clark's.

Doesn't change the fact that on that one play, the ball was thrown out of bounds and there was no way for him to catch it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Neither one of them has done jack all this season.

False

[Bowser]

Robinson has exactly 50 yards receiving through 5 games.

He's still stealing money from the Clark's.

Robinson just doesn't seem the same this year. I'm ready to see what Pringle can do in that role.

[DaneMcCloud]

Doesn't change the fact that on that one play, the ball was thrown out of bounds and there was no way for him to catch it.

I shouldn't have quoted you; my apologies. I was just referring to the thread topic overall, not that specific play.

I don't care what anyone says, Robinson a fringe NFL WR.

[Red Dawg]

Robinson is not very good. He has wild legs and can't drag his feet. He freaking awkward.

[Red Dawg]

Robinson just doesn't seem the same this year. I'm ready to see what Pringle can do in that role.

Damn right.

[DaneMcCloud]

Robinson just doesn't seem the same this year. I'm ready to see what Pringle can do in that role.

Yeah, something's gotta give.

At least Pringle looked quick and sharp today in limited snaps.

[RocKhawks]

Robinson is not very good. He has wild legs and can't drag his feet. He freaking awkward.

You nailed it! I couldn't quite figure out what was wrong with him. He looks like a new born ostrich trying to run around.

[gold_and_red]

With Hill and Kelce demanding multiple defenders Robinson and Hardman are likely to be 1:1 every snap. Is the play design so strict that they are not supposed to get the ball barring complete breakdown? Seems too expensive for decoys.

[JakeF]

With Hill and Kelce demanding multiple defenders Robinson and Hardman are likely to be 1:1 every snap. Is the play design so strict that they are not supposed to get the ball barring complete breakdown? Seems too expensive for decoys.
Robinson and Hardman haven't proven they can handle it yet. We've been holding onto these players that are taking up space because Andy doesn't like to hurt people's feeling. Too many "special teams" level players and most of them need to go.

Beyond Fisher and Schwartz our Oline sucks. I'm not sure the Andy Heck and Andy Reid aren't part of the problem. There's too many similarities with our Olineman to not have to look at coaching.

Same goes for the Dline. Too many borderline players sticking around.

Andy better not fucking waste Mahomes' career.

[UChieffyBugger]

Robinson came up big last season against the Raiders and Ravens when Tyreek was out...so if Sammy is forced to miss time then he probably gets the first chance to step in as you can't deny his experience. But Pringle must be banging on the door right now for sure.

[JakeF]

Robinson came up big last season against the Raiders and Ravens when Tyreek was out...so if Sammy is forced to miss time then he probably gets the first chance to step in as you can't deny his experience. But Pringle must be banging on the door right now for sure.
Robinson has one good game last year and then disappeared and did nothing.

He's been in KC for years and had plenty of chances to show he's worth being a starter. He's not. Just let that shit go.

[UChieffyBugger]

Robinson has one good game last year and then disappeared and did nothing.

He's been in KC for years and had plenty of chances to show he's worth being a starter. He's not. Just let that shit go.

The guy has HAD big games with Mahomes and this offense...is he getting tons of targets each week? No..so expecting him to be Randy Moss is unrealistic. He knows the system and he's proved he can have big games...it's just that simple no-matter how much yall want to hate on him.

[JakeF]

The guy has HAD big games with Mahomes and this offense...is he getting tons of targets each week? No..so expecting him to be Randy Moss is unrealistic. He knows the system and he's proved he can have big games...it's just that simple no-matter how much yall want to hate on him.
But when Watkins gets hurt, which is plenty, Robinson basically becomes a starter and has all the chances in the world. Watkins misses what, at least 2 games each year, so Robinson has starter 2 games each season. That is far more than most backups get and they fight to get snaps. Pringle hasn't gotten the chances Robinson has and he probably should.

I'm done with Robinson and Hardman, time to move on.

After Hill and Watkins we have jack shit at wide receiver. We need to stop holding on to a bunch of special teamers and look for usable talent. Give Pringle a real chance while Watkins is hurt so we know if we should keep him next year.

Same goes for offensive line. After Schwartz and Fisher we have a bunch of shit along the offensive line. We need to cut the fat and look for quality players. We just sign Osomele off the street and instantly he's our 3rd best offensive lineman. Other teams didn't want him because of his injuries.

We need to start looking for quality guys instead of potential.

Andy likes to keep the same roster around because it's easier than teaching a bunch of new guys. I'd say we could cut 20 players off our current roster and not miss a single beat.

Impressive that we won a Super Bowl with so much waste on the roster.

[UChieffyBugger]

Lumping Hardman with Robinson is unfair. It's well known that Andy's offense is rough on new wideputs...especially young ones. But still Mecole has come up with big plays in big games. Infact most of his td's have come against playoff teams or division rivals..so give him time fgs.

[WhiteWhale]

The guy has HAD big games with Mahomes and this offense...is he getting tons of targets each week? No..so expecting him to be Randy Moss is unrealistic. He knows the system and he's proved he can have big games...it's just that simple no-matter how much yall want to hate on him.

Hes had one game over 100 yards in his career.

One.

[WhiteWhale]

But when Watkins gets hurt, which is plenty, Robinson basically becomes a starter and has all the chances in the world. Watkins misses what, at least 2 games each year, so Robinson has starter 2 games each season. That is far more than most backups get and they fight to get snaps. Pringle hasn't gotten the chances Robinson has and he probably should.

I'm done with Robinson and Hardman, time to move on.

After Hill and Watkins we have jack shit at wide receiver. We need to stop holding on to a bunch of special teamers and look for usable talent. Give Pringle a real chance while Watkins is hurt so we know if we should keep him next year.

Same goes for offensive line. After Schwartz and Fisher we have a bunch of shit along the offensive line. We need to cut the fat and look for quality players. We just sign Osomele off the street and instantly he's our 3rd best offensive lineman. Other teams didn't want him because of his injuries.

We need to start looking for quality guys instead of potential.

Andy likes to keep the same roster around because it's easier than teaching a bunch of new guys. I'd say we could cut 20 players off our current roster and not miss a single beat.

Impressive that we won a Super Bowl with so much waste on the roster.

Your posts in this thread are among the worst takes I have ever seen.

Just catastrophizing a single loss like a child who farted during a school play. Life isnt over. The team isnt terrible. Stop it.

[UChieffyBugger]

Hes had one game over 100 yards in his career.

One.

How many targets does he get per game?

[Hoover]

Hes had one game over 100 yards in his career.

One.
but had the same number of TDs than Julio Jones did last year....

Hardman is fine. Your expectations are out of line when you account for the number of targets Kelce and Hill get.

[WhiteWhale]

but had the same number of TDs than Julio Jones did last year....

Hardman is fine. Your expectations are out of line when you account for the number of targets Kelce and Hill get.

Who's talking about hardman?

I'm obviously talking about robinson.

[MahomesMagic]

Hardman is a good player but he doesn't replace what Watkins does for the offense.

[WhiteWhale]

How many targets does he get per game?

More than he deserves.

Robinson isnt special. I dont know what the hell is so hard to see about that.

[htismaqe]

Time to move on from Hardman?

ROFL

[htismaqe]

Hardman is a good player but he doesn't replace what Watkins does for the offense.

Anybody that expected that hasn't been paying attention.

Hardman was drafted to fill a speed gap in case Hill was suspended for a lengthy amount of time. Hardman was never intended to replace Watkins - they're not even remotely the same skill set.

[RunKC]

Hardman is a good player but he doesn't replace what Watkins does for the offense.

That’s the big problem. Chase Claypool had 4 TD’s yesterday and has been awesome. Tee Higgins is a quality receiver with limited reps behind 2 other players. AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin etc.

We have got to get a bigger WR with skills to block and take over for Sammy when he inevitably gets hurt.

It’s a big need

[BigCatDaddy]

That’s the big problem. Chase Claypool had 4 TD’s yesterday and has been awesome. Tee Higgins is a quality receiver with limited reps behind 2 other players. AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin etc.

We have got to get a bigger WR with skills to block and take over for Sammy when he inevitably gets hurt.

It’s a big need

Hopefully Kemp finally gets a shot.

[htismaqe]

That’s the big problem. Chase Claypool had 4 TD’s yesterday and has been awesome. Tee Higgins is a quality receiver with limited reps behind 2 other players. AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin etc.

We have got to get a bigger WR with skills to block and take over for Sammy when he inevitably gets hurt.

It’s a big need

I agree.

[Redbled]

I wanted Metcalf over Hardman during the draft. Imagine having him now.

[htismaqe]

I wanted Metcalf over Hardman during the draft. Imagine having him now.

Metcalf pretty much gets by on straight line speed and running through defenders.

I don't think he looks nearly as good in this offense, I'm not sure Andy would use him like he's being used right now.

[Chris Meck]

Robinson knows all of the WR positions. That's why he gets more snaps.

[BigRedChief]

Neither one of them has done jack all this season.

Wow.

FalseWTF comochiefsfan? You been watching the games this year? Hardman hasnt done shit? Really?

[BigRedChief]

Hardman was drafted to fill a speed gap in case Hill was suspended for a lengthy amount of time.Doubt that because the NFL and the Chiefs had the the tape of Hill and his girlfriend admitting is was all BS the whole time. When this originally came up, he gave the tape to the NFL and the Chiefs. They had the tape months before the draft.

They knew he was totally innocent when they drafted Hardman.

[FloridaMan88]

Robinson knows all of the WR positions. That's why he gets more snaps.

Put any chump on this message board in the offense for five years and I am sure anyone could learn/"know" the offense... doesn't mean they can actually execute on this knowledge.

[Chris Meck]

Put any chump on this message board in the offense for five years and I am sure anyone could learn/"know" the offense... doesn't mean they can actually execute the knowledge.


well that's a pretty stupid thing to say.

[FloridaMan88]

well that's a pretty stupid thing to say.

Just as stupid as saying that DRob's supposed "knowledge" of the offense should earn him more snaps.

[Chris Meck]

Just as stupid as saying that DRob's supposed "knowledge" of the offense should earn him more snaps.

I'm telling you why it does.

You want to argue it SHOULD? Go argue with Andy Reid.

[htismaqe]

Doubt that because the NFL and the Chiefs had the the tape of Hill and his girlfriend admitting is was all BS the whole time. When this originally came up, he gave the tape to the NFL and the Chiefs. They had the tape months before the draft.

They knew he was totally innocent when they drafted Hardman.

Tryeek also hadn't signed his extension yet IIRC, so there's that.

Anyway, none of that changes the fact that he's a Tyreek Hill-type of player and not similar to Sammy Watkins in any way.

[Mecca]

If the Chiefs were drafting to replace Watkins, Metcalf made more sense than Hardman to be honest.

[Red Dawg]

Robinson knows all of the WR positions. That's why he gets more snaps.

But sucks at all of them.

[Red Dawg]

If the Chiefs were drafting to replace Watkins, Metcalf made more sense than Hardman to be honest.

Love Metcalfs game and we need a guy like him. Big body that can just go get the ball even covered. None of our wrs are as dangerous as him. Hill maybe but DK is a red zone threat that we don't have at WR. That's why we run gadget plays inside the 10.

[Mecca]

Love Metcalfs game and we need a guy like him. Big body that can just go get the ball even covered. None of our wrs are as dangerous as him. Hill maybe but DK is a red zone threat that we don't have at WR. That's why we run gadget plays inside the 10.

The entire NFL fucked that one up, 6’4” 230lb receiver walks in the room that runs faster and jumps higher than every receiver while being stronger than every tight end.

::nerd pushes up his glasses::

“This will never work, look at this 3 cone”

[MahomesMagic]

If the Chiefs were drafting to replace Watkins, Metcalf made more sense than Hardman to be honest.

Or Terry McLaurin.

[Chief Roundup]

It should be Pringle not Hardman taking over for Watkins. I am not a DRob fan.

[htismaqe]

It should be Pringle not Hardman taking over for Watkins. I am not a DRob fan.

I don't know why they don't play Pringle more, honestly. He seems to do well in spot duty.

[Deberg_1990]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs final WR snap count<br>Demarcus Robinson 69<br>Tyreek Hill 68<br>Mecole Hardman 29<br>Byron Pringle 27<br>Marcus Kemp 2<br>Out of 73 plays</p>&mdash; Nathan Jahnke (@PFF_NateJahnke) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_NateJahnke/status/1318343605908537347?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 20, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Pitt Gorilla]

Love Robinson's hands and blocking tonight. No complaints here.

[ChiefAshhole1056]

Yeah I think Robinson is going to be involved more when the gameplan is more run-centric. Hardman will come in when it’s time to stretch the field and put quick points on the board.

[Fish]

Robinson is a well rounded player. He doesn't really do anything at a spectacular level. But he's mostly dependable for what he's intended for. He's better than a lot of other teams' 3rd/4th WR. I think he gets a tough rap around here. But he was a late 4th rd pick that I think has played at or above the expectations of a 4th rd pick.

[Chief Northman]

I don't know why they don't play Pringle more, honestly. He seems to do well in spot duty.

Sure-handed, tough, and can find the soft spots in zone coverage. Strong on teams. He’s a keeper.

[Fish]

I don't know why they don't play Pringle more, honestly. He seems to do well in spot duty.

Prangle is a very good player as well. I've watched his entire career. From Butler Community College to K-State to KC Chiefs. He gives 100% damn near every play. Tough SOB. He's very close to outperforming Robinson at this point...