Threat Level Midnight: the Hitchens problem is getting worse.

[Direckshun]

How closely did you watch the first series from the Chargers game?

First snap, Hitchens is right where he needs to be and squares up Ekeler, they collide for what could have been a 1- or 2-yard gain but instead Ekeler just bounces off Hitchens and gains about 9 yards on first down.

Next snap, same issue. Hitchens can't seal the deal.

Couple snaps later, a screen to that one RB Kelly in the flat, who is completely uncovered because Hitchens doesn't see him and is actually running deeper into coverage, away from the dude with the ball. Kelly eats up so much space so fast that Hitchens can't even get to him despite the fact it's his side of the field.

We're all used to Hitchens not playing very well, but this is reaching a critical mass, particularly because we don't really have a valid replacement for him going forward.

He wasn't playing this poorly in 2019 or 2018. This is a new level of suck.

[Mecca]

He's here 2 more years so....hopefully it's just the lack of preseason etc.

[loochy]

Hopefully we can just chalk it up to lack of preseason reps. He was definitely better than this in all phases at the end of last year.

[kcclone]

Hopefully at some point Gay can step in and be a dominate LB to help cover for Hitch’s weakness.

It’s our weakest position group on the team, but it is what it is. There are no teams with zero weaknesses.

[Simply Red]

knocking the dusty rust off.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

He just doesn’t seem to play with anywhere near the physicality that he did when in Dallas.

You started to see it more in the playoffs from he and Wilson and that’s part of the reason why they were able to limit the hottest running teams in the league at the time, but now things look lethargic again.

[loochy]

He just doesn’t seem to play with anywhere near the physicality that he did when in Dallas.

You started to see it more in the playoffs from he and Wilson and that’s part of the reason why they were able to limit the hottest running teams in the league at the time, but now things look lethargic again.


It sounds like HB needs to get up in some players' faces

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Relax, it's preseason. 2nd half of the season we'll be clicking on all cylinders.

[htismaqe]

He just doesn’t seem to play with anywhere near the physicality that he did when in Dallas.

You started to see it more in the playoffs from he and Wilson and that’s part of the reason why they were able to limit the hottest running teams in the league at the time, but now things look lethargic again.

Wilson has looked even worse than Hitchens so far. Wilson can't even get to the spot half the time, let alone make a tackle. Throwing himself at running backs is just ridiculous. He's going to end up getting really hurt.

[OKchiefs]

Relax, it's preseason. 2nd half of the season we'll be clicking on all cylinders.

After 2 games the starters have already played as much as they do all preseason. It's time to nut up or shut up.

[RealSNR]

He's here 2 more years so....hopefully it's just the lack of preseason etc.

We can cut him next year. We're not going to get much cap relief, but we also won't take a hit.

[Red Dawg]

Our LBs suck and have for years. Not one of them has teeth and must be respected.

[htismaqe]

After 2 games the starters have already played as much as they do all preseason. It's time to nut up or shut up.

LMAO

[DJ's left nut]

Wilson has looked even worse than Hitchens so far. Wilson can't even get to the spot half the time, let alone make a tackle. Throwing himself at running backs is just ridiculous. He's going to end up getting really hurt.

Yeah - they're both really bad but I'd say Wilson's fallen further from his 2019 performance than Hitchens - in part because Wilson played better than Hitchens in 2019, IMO.

[dlphg9]

I get there was no preseason, but its not like Hitchens is in his first few seasons. This is his 7th season in the league. Missing a few snaps of preseason shouldn't be causing him to play this shitty. Hell we got a rookie CB, 2nd year CB that look 10x better than not just him, but all of the starting LBs.

These LBs are so bad at stopping the run and defending the pass. On the Chargers 6th play. It was a read option. Its ran to Frank Clarks side and Ben Neiman is the OLB. They send Neiman on a blitz and Hitchens is supposed to be flowing over to take Neiman's outside responsibility. Hitchens isn't touched and is making his way over to the outside edge while Frank Clark has Herbert completely contained and is untouched. If Hitchens keeps making his way over to where he is supposed to be and covers the RB Kelley on that option then that play is completely blown up. Instead Hitchens isn't taking care of his responsibility and makes a move towards Herbert and Herbert sees Hitchens make his move up and tosses it to Kelley, then Hitchens makes the tackle 6 yards down the field.

This shit is always happening and our LBs need to pull their heads out of their asses and maintain their responsibilities. You are taught in fucking middle school how to defend the option and Hitchens doesn't play it right. Its so frustrating to watch cuz if he follows his fundamentals whatsoever, then its 2nd and 12-13 or maybe he fumbles.

[DJ's left nut]

We can cut him next year. We're not going to get much cap relief, but we also won't take a hit.

At some point you have to bite the bullet.

I'd have tried hard to do it this year but without camp I understand why they didn't.

Next year his base actually drops to $5.8 million so you might be able to stomach that. If not, you can post June 1 him and save about $6.5 million (with about $4.4 million in dead money the following year).

[htismaqe]

Yeah - they're both really bad but I'd say Wilson's fallen further from his 2019 performance than Hitchens - in part because Wilson played better than Hitchens in 2019, IMO.

Yep.

It's also interesting that they didn't try to clearly upgrade Hitchens or Niemann but brought in a guy in Gay that actually will play Wilson's position.

[htismaqe]

I get there was no preseason, but its not like Hitchens is in his first few seasons. This is his 7th season in the league. Missing a few snaps of preseason shouldn't be causing him to play this shitty. Hell we got a rookie CB, 2nd year CB that look 10x better than not just him, but all of the starting LBs.

These LBs are so bad at stopping the run and defending the pass. On the Chargers 6th play. It was a read option. Its ran to Frank Clarks side and Ben Neiman is the OLB. They send Neiman on a blitz and Hitchens is supposed to be flowing over to take Neiman's outside responsibility. Hitchens isn't touched and is making his way over to the outside edge while Frank Clark has Herbert completely contained and is untouched. If Hitchens keeps making his way over to where he is supposed to be and covers the RB Kelley on that option then that play is completely blown up. Instead Hitchens isn't taking care of his responsibility and makes a move towards Herbert and Herbert sees Hitchens make his move up and tosses it to Kelley, then Hitchens makes the tackle 6 yards down the field.

This shit is always happening and our LBs need to pull their heads out of their asses and maintain their responsibilities. You are taught in fucking middle school how to defend the option and Hitchens doesn't play it right. Its so frustrating to watch cuz if he follows his fundamentals whatsoever, then its 2nd and 12-13 or maybe he fumbles.

For whatever reason, they're not trusting each other. It's the same thing that happened to the DB's on the corner TD pass by Herbert.

It looks just like last year at this time when they were running all over the place instead of just playing their spots.

[htismaqe]

At some point you have to bite the bullet.

I'd have tried hard to do it this year but without camp I understand why they didn't.

Next year his base actually drops to $5.8 million so you might be able to stomach that. If not, you can post June 1 him and save about $6.5 million (with about $4.4 million in dead money the following year).

The damn contract is the worst part of it, unfortunately

[DJ's left nut]

The damn contract is the worst part of it, unfortunately

Yes and no.

Weirdly, Veach was pretty far ahead of the curve for the price-tags on off-ball linebackers. They jumped exponentially almost immediately after Hitchens deal. There was some potential for that to actually be a really nice contract for the team with some surplus value there.

And even where it is, if he could just be an average player, the contract wouldn't be a real boat anchor.

The bar for that contract to be fairly forgettable isn't really THAT high, especially since the structure made the first two years quite cheap (so forward paying a bit on the deal through the rollovers). When you consider the cap credits created through rollovers rather than any individual cap year, his average cap hit over the first 4 years will be right at $8 million.

That's a little high for an average off-ball backer, but it's not something we'd care about if the guy was playing at, say, Marvcus Patton's level.

The contract isn't REALLY the problem - the damn level of performance is. He just absolutely HAS to be better than this.

[dlphg9]

What drives me crazy is Willie Gay Jr. is riding the bench because he is "raw" and needs to learn, but watching the All 22 makes me question if any of the veteran LBs know what the fuck they are doing. There really isn't any harm playing him for like 10-15 snaps a game. I fucking hate that it seems like the reason Hitchens is playing because of his contract. Because he is not a good LB.

[ThaVirus]

What drives me crazy is Willie Gay Jr. is riding the bench because he is "raw" and needs to learn, but watching the All 22 makes me question if any of the veteran LBs know what the fuck they are doing. There really isn't any harm playing him for like 10-15 snaps a game. I fucking hate that it seems like the reason Hitchens is playing because of his contract. Because he is not a good LB.

It's impossible to know what Spags is thinking, but I'd bet he's most miffed by the missed tackles. We've consistently seen our guys in great position to make the stop, only to whiff or just bounce off the ball carrier. If we can get these guys to tackle properly, we'll instantly look a lot better. If you throw Gay in there and he's not ready, you risk having him blow assignments and miss tackles.

[RealSNR]

Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.

[DJ's left nut]

What drives me crazy is Willie Gay Jr. is riding the bench because he is "raw" and needs to learn, but watching the All 22 makes me question if any of the veteran LBs know what the fuck they are doing. There really isn't any harm playing him for like 10-15 snaps a game. I fucking hate that it seems like the reason Hitchens is playing because of his contract. Because he is not a good LB.

The problem is that Hitchens rounded into form last year.

He was never great, but over the latter half he played pretty much exactly to that 'average, credible off-ball linebacker' level that I think we'd all pretty much find acceptable. Obviously not ideal, but tolerable.

So the staff doesn't want to bury him and prevent him from finding that form again.

And last week's game was so nip/tuck the whole way that any trial by fire could've proven disastrous had Gay just completely shit the bed on an assignment.

I get why the situation is what it is right now, but Hitchens can't have infinite rope, nor can Wilson. At some point those guys have to start playing better or we have to go get a veteran FA who can be in meetings for 4-5 weeks and maybe step in over the latter half of the season to replace one of these guys.

[DJ's left nut]

Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.

DoD had a nice delayed blitz for a sack.

But among the starters, I can't recall anything.

[Skyy God]

Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.

DOD notched a sack against the Texans.

[Chris Meck]

Yep.

It's also interesting that they didn't try to clearly upgrade Hitchens or Niemann but brought in a guy in Gay that actually will play Wilson's position.

I think that plan was because it would be easier to get him in the lineup. Responsibiities being simpler than at Mike.

[RINGLEADER]

Wish we had gotten Queen but what can you do?

On the other hand we’ve held opponents to 20 both games. We do that all year and chances are better than not that we’ll be 16-0.

[Chief Northman]

Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.

[htismaqe]

Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.

Yep.

[staylor26]

Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.

So the playoff run didn’t happen? Because given their talent level, these guys showed up when it mattered last year, especially in that Titans game against Henry. He certainly got the most out of that group last year all things considered.

It’s hard to have a group so void of talent and put it on the coach. Gay is the first real talent he’s had to work with, so I’m going to see how he develops before I write off House for not turning chicken shit into chicken salad.

[dlphg9]

It's impossible to know what Spags is thinking, but I'd bet he's most miffed by the missed tackles. We've consistently seen our guys in great position to make the stop, only to whiff or just bounce off the ball carrier. If we can get these guys to tackle properly, we'll instantly look a lot better. If you throw Gay in there and he's not ready, you risk having him blow assignments and miss tackles.

But Hitchens does blow assignments and misses tackles. He blew 2 within the first 6 plays and missed a tackle on the 1st or 2nd play he was out there.

[Sassy Squatch]

But Hitchens does blow assignments and misses tackles. He blew 2 within the first 6 plays and missed a tackle on the 1st or 2nd play he was out there.
LMAO I know, right? At least Gay is faster and younger.

[Deberg_1990]

So the playoff run didn’t happen? Because given their talent level, these guys showed up when it mattered last year, especially in that Titans game against Henry. He certainly got the most out of that group last year all things considered.

It’s hard to have a group so void of talent and put it on the coach. Gay is the first real talent he’s had to work with, so I’m going to see how he develops before I write off House for not turning chicken shit into chicken salad.

This. I’ll take December/January Performance over September all day long.

[DJ's left nut]

Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.

It's interesting to note how much sharper our secondary has looked in terms of making the smart, fundamentl play than our LB corps has.

I absolutely blamed that goofy looking stumble-fuck that we had before we brought in House for obvious breakdowns in our LB corps - it's only fair to ask the question w/r/t House.

Maybe he ISN'T the right guy for coaching this particular scheme. Because we damn sure don't seem to see guys improving in it and that's pretty much a coach's only job.

Though you could maybe consider Ragland a feather in his cap. Reggie really did a nice job of making himself useful in a specific role last season when he appeared to be on his way out. That's doing a nice job of salvaging a distressed asset.

Just gotta hope that we see the same kind of forward momentum this year, I guess. If we don't...yeah, maybe that gig has to be put under review so to speak.

[DJ's left nut]

So the playoff run didn’t happen? Because given their talent level, these guys showed up when it mattered last year, especially in that Titans game against Henry. He certainly got the most out of that group last year all things considered.

It’s hard to have a group so void of talent and put it on the coach. Gay is the first real talent he’s had to work with, so I’m going to see how he develops before I write off House for not turning chicken shit into chicken salad.

I just think it's fair to look at the relative performances of the secondary vs. linebacker corps.

Though to your point, Thornhill and Mathieu is a lot of assets to have thrown into the position group in terms of draft capital and cap space. Then again, Gay was also a 2nd rounder and Hitchens wasn't cheap.

Breeland is very much like Wilson and Niemann has a similar pedigree to Ward.

It just looks to me like we're getting more out of our cap/picks in the secondary than we are in the LB corps. May just be that the talent is worse; maybe we don't scout LBs as well. It could also be that the secondary coaches are just doing a better job with their guys than House and his people.

[Chief Northman]

So the playoff run didn’t happen? Because given their talent level, these guys showed up when it mattered last year, especially in that Titans game against Henry. He certainly got the most out of that group last year all things considered.

It’s hard to have a group so void of talent and put it on the coach. Gay is the first real talent he’s had to work with, so I’m going to see how he develops before I write off House for not turning chicken shit into chicken salad.

Don't live in the past.

If every coach evaluated on the benefit of a doubt, that would be a surefire way to get axed. You can't reasonably re-shape a position group overnight, but the sheer evidence of poor fundamental execution is more than concerning.

[ThaVirus]

But Hitchens does blow assignments and misses tackles. He blew 2 within the first 6 plays and missed a tackle on the 1st or 2nd play he was out there.


How are you sure Hitchens is out there blowing assignments without knowing their responsibilities? I’m not arguing that he doesn’t, by the way. Every player in the league misses assignments.

I’m saying Hitchens usually appears to be in pretty decent position. Most times he just isn’t physical enough when engaging blockers and ball carriers. He showed at the end of last season that he is capable of being an above average MLB for us. If Spags can get him to clean up the tackling, he’ll instantly improve from disaster level to serviceable.

Putting Gay in there would run the risk of truly fucking things up for the defense. They’ve seen the guy in practice. They know better than us. If he’s not out there yet then there’s probably a good reason for it.

[ThaVirus]

LMAO I know, right? At least Gay is faster and younger.


You can’t just throw the kid in there because he’s fast. That’s some Madden shit.

[staylor26]

Don't live in the past.

If every coach evaluated on the benefit of a doubt, that would be a surefire way to get axed. You can't reasonably re-shape a position group overnight, but the sheer evidence of poor fundamental execution is more than concerning.

So ignore the postseason run in favor of the first 2 weeks of the season with no preseason? Got it.

What a stupid fucking take. Almost as bad as you calling Gay a possible bust after week fucking 1.

[crispystl]

Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year?How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

Negative

[DJ's left nut]

How are you sure Hitchens is out there blowing assignments without knowing their responsibilities? I’m not arguing that he doesn’t, by the way. Every player in the league misses assignments.

I’m saying Hitchens usually appears to be in pretty decent position. Most times he just isn’t physical enough when engaging blockers and ball carriers. He showed at the end of last season that he is capable of being an above average MLB for us. If Spags can get him to clean up the tackling, he’ll instantly improve from disaster level to serviceable.

Putting Gay in there would run the risk of truly fucking things up for the defense. They’ve seen the guy in practice. They know better than us. If he’s not out there yet then there’s probably a good reason for it.

The one thing a player who's struggling absolutely CANNOT do is interfere with OTHER guys ability to do their jobs.

If Hitchens is at least generally positionally sound but isn't finishing plays, well at the very least he's not making other guys scramble out of their assigned roles to cover his fuck-ups. At least he's allowing them to stay in a position to clean up his shortcomings.

The defense really came together last year when they started trusting that the other guy would at least be where he was supposed to be and they started staying in their lanes better. At that point they could flow to the football and cover for the inevitable execution failures that arise here and there.

And again, it's also fair to point out that Spags himself says that LB is one of the hardest roles to play in his defenses. Maybe the learning curve for a guy like Gay is just much steeper than Thornhill - sure seems that way listening to Spags.

I don't think there's an easy answer here - but I also don't think we can completely give House a pass if the LB corps continues on its present course.

[Sassy Squatch]

You can’t just throw the kid in there because he’s fast. That’s some Madden shit.
Actually said that because he's fast enough to salvage the play when he inevitably fucks up. Hitchens just plods along.

[staylor26]

The one thing a player who's struggling absolutely CANNOT do is interfere with OTHER guys ability to do their jobs.

If Hitchens is at least generally positionally sound but isn't finishing plays, well at the very least he's not making other guys scramble out of their assigned roles to cover his fuck-ups. At least he's allowing them to stay in a position to clean up his shortcomings.

The defense really came together last year when they started trusting that the other guy would at least be where he was supposed to be and they started staying in their lanes better. At that point they could flow to the football and cover for the inevitable execution failures that arise here and there.

And again, it's also fair to point out that Spags himself says that LB is one of the hardest roles to play in his defenses. Maybe the learning curve for a guy like Gay is just much steeper than Thornhill - sure seems that way listening to Spags.

I don't think there's an easy answer here - but I also don't think we can completely give House a pass if the LB corps continues on its present course.

And that’s fair.

[htismaqe]

The one thing a player who's struggling absolutely CANNOT do is interfere with OTHER guys ability to do their jobs.

If Hitchens is at least generally positionally sound but isn't finishing plays, well at the very least he's not making other guys scramble out of their assigned roles to cover his fuck-ups. At least he's allowing them to stay in a position to clean up his shortcomings.

The defense really came together last year when they started trusting that the other guy would at least be where he was supposed to be and they started staying in their lanes better. At that point they could flow to the football and cover for the inevitable execution failures that arise here and there.

And again, it's also fair to point out that Spags himself says that LB is one of the hardest roles to play in his defenses. Maybe the learning curve for a guy like Gay is just much steeper than Thornhill - sure seems that way listening to Spags.

I don't think there's an easy answer here - but I also don't think we can completely give House a pass if the LB corps continues on its present course.

This, this, and more this.

[Direckshun]

Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.

DOD sacked Watson when the Texans opened up like the Red Sea for him.

[OKchiefs]

So the playoff run didn’t happen? Because given their talent level, these guys showed up when it mattered last year, especially in that Titans game against Henry. He certainly got the most out of that group last year all things considered.

It’s hard to have a group so void of talent and put it on the coach. Gay is the first real talent he’s had to work with, so I’m going to see how he develops before I write off House for not turning chicken shit into chicken salad.

The question is then, why are they so void of talent?

They clearly haven't invested a huge amount of resources at linebacker, but they haven't ignored it either: a sizable contract on Hitchens, a 2nd on Gay, a 3rd on DOD. It's arguably more than they have invested at cornerback, yet we seem to find a hidden gem at cornerback every year.

I'm somewhat confident that Gay can/should be seeing starter minutes by the midpoint of the season. Otherwise, not much positive at the position.

[Demonpenz]

Veach just sent DJ an AOL message to see if he is in shape

[lewdog]

Niemann makes Hitchens look like an absolute beast.

[DaneMcCloud]

Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.

I find it hard to criticize a guy like Matt House when he's been given guys that wouldn't be starters elsewhere in the league and certainly not a part of a championship defense.

I'd challenge any linebackers coach to put a competent unit on field consisting of Hitchens, Wilson and Niemann.

[New World Order]

Niemann makes Hitchens look like an absolute beast.

LMAO

[Megatron96]

So I just rewatched the first half on NFL's GamePass Coaches film, and had to retract my earlier statement about the LBs in the Ravens thread.

Yes, Hitchens and Wilson didn't play particularly well in that first series. Or the second for that matter. But after that they settled down some.

But they weren't the only ones having trouble either. Thornhill had some tackling issues, and he flat missed two opportunities for INTs or at least defensed passes. I think he still isn't 100% confident in his knee, so for now I'll give him a pass there, because in spite of that, he did read and react nicely to several plays, he just didn't finish. In particular was the WR screen, where he sniffed it out immediately, ran all the way from his high safety spot to the sideline and should've made a tackle for about a two yard loss but somehow missed the tackle allowing a big gain. That sort of thing can be cleaned up with practice and more snaps, so I don't think we should be worried.

Hitchens blew a couple assignments early, but after that through most of the first half he played fairly consistently. He did have a couple bad missed tackles early, and I still hate the way he catches a lot of tackles with his stomach instead of hitting with his shoulder/facemask and wrapping up, but he did diagnose the plays, got to the right spot, and was generally the first tackler. He just didn't stuff them cold or knock them back.

Wilson made some plays, including that one to knock Herbert out of bounds where he got a little hurt. That one was pretty good because he had to fight through a couple Chargers just to make that play and I thought he did a nice job with that.

And I think we have to give some credit to Niemann though he did miss a couple tackles on guys that he had in his arms. Overall he showed good recognition and except for just three times he was where he was supposed to be and made the play. He even defensed on what might've been a TD pass, which Sorenson kind of whiffed on.

Other notes:

The Chargers double-teamed Nnadi a ton in the first half. Like nearly every running play. Apparently someone for the LAC has been watching a lot of Baldy's film studies, because they tried to blow Nnadi out of every play. he actually was the target of more doubles than Chris Jones for the first half, and Chris received a lot of doubles as well. And it worked, I guess, because there's a couple series in a row where Nnadi wasn't on the field at all. I'm assuming he got gassed having to fight so many doubles early.

Jones started out pretty good against the run, for what it's worth. He stayed home and actually made some nice plays, though he didn't actually make any of those tackles, he did contain the runner and sent them into "the wall" Spags was talking about in that "Time's Yours" video.

But some time in the second quarter he started ad libbing some, maybe because he got tired of the double-teams and was trying to out-smart them? Obviously I don't know, but in the second half he started trying to loop or twist away from where he thought the double was coming from, and a couple of those were on first down with the Chargers showing a run. And they were runs which Chris twisted his way right out of leaving pretty big holes that Ekeler or Kelley ran for big yards on.

With Nnadi taking long breathers we saw a lot of KPass, and I believe Wharton (98) trying to take up the slack.

There's more, but the bottom line is that Hitchens and Wilson weren't the big problem with our run D. It was a combination of the front 7 not being in game shape (possibly, might've had something to do with the air quality as well, or both), Nnadi getting his ass doubled every snap, a few times Hitchens and Wilson not trusting each other, Chris trying to avoid doubles, and across the board a lot of guys not tackling very well. In that regard I saw a lot of missed tackles because guys were aiming too high, basically trying to tackle around the shoulders.

Now that all sounds kind of bad, but the thing is Hitchens was getting the front lined up right nearly every time, and he did settle down and start making plays, or at least was in the right spot to make a play, about as well as he did in the second half of last season. His relative lack of aggressiveness at the point of attack is something we may just have to live with for now. But at least he didn't spend the whole game just completely lost like in that one play in the first series. He and Wilson have to work on the trust thing for sure.

Nnadi was playing pretty well when he was on the field, but it's obvious someone's been paying attention and they figured out that Nnadi is the anchor of the run D. We need Pennel back badly, and probably Saunders to spell him as well ASAP.

When you consider the fact that we went into that game without either of our starting CBs, our best run defending DT out, our starting DE2 out, our defense didn't play that badly. Spags had to hide/cover a lot of weaknesses with back-ups and rookies against a team that does have plenty of weapons. Plus, they prepped for Taylor not Herbert, who's a rook but obviously a completely different animal.

Last thing: Herbert made a ton of mistakes. They just didn't show up as turnovers or losses of yards. There were several throws that should've been intercepted (1 or 2 by Thornhill) or were just bad decisions. If Thornhill was 100%, and we had our starting CBs on the field, things may have unraveled for Herbert in the first half. I'm beginning to think coach Lynn was telling the truth about Herbert needing more time.

[keg in kc]

Thornhill looked pretty bad both week 1 and 2.

I believe most of the issues we're seen on defense really are related to the lack of a traditional camp and preseason. I know other teams aren't having the same issues, but I think that's what's up with us.

[DJ's left nut]

Last thing: Herbert made a ton of mistakes. They just didn't show up as turnovers or losses of yards. There were several throws that should've been intercepted (1 or 2 by Thornhill) or were just bad decisions. If Thornhill was 100%, and we had our starting CBs on the field, things may have unraveled for Herbert in the first half. I'm beginning to think coach Lynn was telling the truth about Herbert needing more time.

UNPOSSIBLE!!!!

(I tried to tell y'all that if you watch it without listening to Romo, you'll understand that the guy really wasn't very good)

Regarding the rest - I think we've learned the last couple of years how critical cohesion is for a defensive unit. You look at how the Colts and Ravens Ds have played well beyond their true talent level and it really demonstrates that.

For whatever reason, the squad just wasn't in sync. You add up 'only 2 or 3 truly bad plays' for a half dozen different guys on that squad and it gives you 20 odd plays where something broke down. And ultimately, that's a LOT.

I think it's fair to point out that nobody was quite as bad for 4 quarters as it appeared they were - but there were also more guys who really weren't all that good than it appeared at first blush.

In some ways it's easier to just fix one or two guys fuckin' up a lot than it is to get 10 guys who are struggling to play together to figure it out.

But we saw this last year. It'll likely iron out. The injuries/suspensions had a lot to do with it I'm sure.

[Megatron96]

UNPOSSIBLE!!!!

(I tried to tell y'all that if you watch it without listening to Romo, you'll understand that the guy really wasn't very good)



BUT WE LIKE LISTENING TO ROMO!!! DON'T TAKE AWAY OUR EAR CANDY, FFS!!!

[dlphg9]

BUT WE LIKE LISTENING TO ROMO!!! DON'T TAKE AWAY OUR EAR CANDY, FFS!!!

The way he talked about that TD throw just drove me nuts. Herbert is throwing it to a wide open guy because Fenton is playing 5 yards away from the Guyton when the ball is in the air and right before he throws it Fenton is moving the opposite direction and then has to try to cover 7+ yards in like a second. Fenton also takes a horrible angle and tries to run in front of the ball instead of just going to where the ball is going to be caught. Matt Cassel could make that throw.

[Megatron96]

The way he talked about that TD throw just drove me nuts. Herbert is throwing it to a wide open guy because Fenton is playing 5 yards away from the Guyton when the ball is in the air and right before he throws it Fenton is moving the opposite direction and then has to try to cover 7+ yards in like a second. Fenton also takes a horrible angle and tries to run in front of the ball instead of just going to where the ball is going to be caught. Matt Cassel could make that throw.

Yeah, that was a terrible play. Fenton had no chance unless he just gambled and stayed wide. But I could've made that throw if I were still 18. Or whatever. Heck, I might be able to just make the throw right now. It might not be as pretty, but I could probably get it out there.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The Direction bad threads are getting worse too...

[Chiefshrink]

....hopefully it's just the lack of preseason etc.

This is what I think a lot of this is IMHO. When you are severely limited in getting any real live game snaps as you should it takes a while to get your eyes, brain and body on the same page. Granted he is not the ideal but remember we won the SB last year with this defense. I know the play Direckshun is talking about because his eyes and brain interpreted correctly but his body did not respond in being to take the runner down. It will take time BUT remember every team is experiencing the same issues.

[ChiefsFanatic]

I think Pennel's absence, and Saunders absence to a lesser degree, has impacted the effectiveness of our linebacking corp. Offensive linemen are getting to the second level of our defense pretty easily.

Also, after watching the all-22, from several games last year and this year, Frank Clark seems to crash down the LOS too often when he should be setting the edge. When he crashes down, and the RB bounces outside, the LBs are kind of hung out to dry a little because they really don't have the speed to get to the ball carrier quickly.

Obviously Veach has been doing a jam up job of building up the defensive line and secondary, but now he needs to turn that beautiful mind towards improving our athleticism and speed at linebacker.

Edited to clarify that I was referring to all-22 film from last year as well.



Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Sassy Squatch]

Hopefully last night's game was his turning point similar to last season against Denver. Looked like a completely different player.

[Direckshun]

Hopefully last night's game was his turning point similar to last season against Denver. Looked like a completely different player.

Honestly?

I think Mike Pennel changes the defense.

I haven't dived into the tape yet. But this was the defense of the 2nd half of last year when Pennel became a fixture.

I think Pennel keeps Hitchens clean, and gives him fewer OL to fight through.

[Hoover]

Honestly?

I think Mike Pennel changes the defense.

I haven't dived into the tape yet. But this was the defense of the 2nd half of last year when Pennel became a fixture.

I think Pennel keeps Hitchens clean, and gives him fewer OL to fight through.

Bingo!

[smithandrew051]

Our LBs (for the most part) brought the wood last night. Even the bigger gains by the Ravens ended with big hits.

We really contained their RBs.

[Simply Red]

I have his Jersey - the only one in KC! & CERTAINLY the only one in Atlanta.

[ThaVirus]

I still think it's mostly an effort issue with this defense.

Our late season turn up last year really didn't make sense. You don't just go from a bottom 10 defense to top 5 because you add one run stuffer.

[Chris Meck]

I still think it's mostly an effort issue with this defense.

Our late season turn up last year really didn't make sense. You don't just go from a bottom 10 defense to top 5 because you add one run stuffer.

Come on man. It was an entirely new system with a bunch of new players and coaches. And Space runs a variety of coverages. It's not hard to understand why it took awhile to gel.

[tmax63]

Agree with CM. New system, new coaches last year took time for everyone to learn. And they started getting the second half of last year. This year you have a core of players that already know most of it but you still have several through turnover and (mostly) injuries that are learning. That they put up a performance like last night is very impressive to me and bodes well for the future.

[ThaVirus]

The change was too stark. We looked like ass and people were rightfully wondering if the defense would be able to get its shit together in time for the postseason.. then the very next week, they looked incredible.

I don't think it's likely that everyone on the defense suddenly learned how to play in the system at the same time.

[Chris Meck]

The change was too stark. We looked like ass and people were rightfully wondering if the defense would be able to get its shit together in time for the postseason.. then the very next week, they looked incredible.

I don't think it's likely that everyone on the defense suddenly learned how to play in the system at the same time.

When a defense is just a little off, it can look real bad. It's not strange really to see it gel and look a lot better in one game. Pennel is a very helpful piece, but it was a few things all coming together. Also realize the staff is learning their player's strengths and weaknesses in real time too.

[htismaqe]

Honestly?

I think Mike Pennel changes the defense.

I haven't dived into the tape yet. But this was the defense of the 2nd half of last year when Pennel became a fixture.

I think Pennel keeps Hitchens clean, and gives him fewer OL to fight through.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

[htismaqe]

When a defense is just a little off, it can look real bad. It's not strange really to see it gel and look a lot better in one game. Pennel is a very helpful piece, but it was a few things all coming together. Also realize the staff is learning their player's strengths and weaknesses in real time too.

Spags' defense is all about assignments. You have to trust the guys next to you. We saw it over and again the first two weeks - a guy would miss an assignment and somebody would try to cover for him, leaving a guy wide open.

It's about staying disciplined, playing to the scheme, and trusting each other. They did that last night and it showed.

[Halfcan]

Hichens was HIThims last night. Much better effort from the lagging LB crew. They had their hands full.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

I've gone from being this guy's biggest critic on CP to accepting what he is (and isn't).

What he isn't, is consistent. Boom or bust player. Either stinks up the joint or plays well. Rarely anything in between.

What he is, is a pretty big game player. While you never know what you're going to get from him on a weekly basis, chances are the bigger the game, the better he's going to play.

You can't ignore how much better he played the 2nd half of last season and through the playoffs, even if you bashed him as much as I did.

[Gravedigger]

I do think LB, CB, OL needs to be emphasis in the offseason. We've gotten lucky with those positions the past few years but need to address them. Willie Gay is a good start, but gotta focus on protecting Patrick going forward and Schwartz and Fisher aren't getting any younger.

[Chris Meck]

I do think LB, CB, OL needs to be emphasis in the offseason. We've gotten lucky with those positions the past few years but need to address them. Willie Gay is a good start, but gotta focus on protecting Patrick going forward and Schwartz and Fisher aren't getting any younger.

I somewhat agree.

LB and OL I completely agree.

CB I see a need to continue to build depth, but feel pretty good really with Ward, Fenton, and Sneed. That's a very young and talented trio. I mean you need to keep adding to it, but they've kind of struck gold three years in a row there.

I think Niang will end up being a good player.

I think Gay will be a good one.

But yeah, you need to start restocking the OL and the LB corps is the weak spot on the entire team really.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Had a great game last night

[Direckshun]

I somewhat agree.

LB and OL I completely agree.

CB I see a need to continue to build depth, but feel pretty good really with Ward, Fenton, and Sneed. That's a very young and talented trio. I mean you need to keep adding to it, but they've kind of struck gold three years in a row there.

I think Niang will end up being a good player.

I think Gay will be a good one.

But yeah, you need to start restocking the OL and the LB corps is the weak spot on the entire team really.

Did you watch any Gay? How'd he look?

[Megatron96]

Did you watch any Gay? How'd he look?

I haven't watched the coaches film yet, and I didn't spend a lot of time during the game actually focusing on him, but from what I could see he had some good plays and some not-so-good plays. A couple times he really seemed kind of lost, but when he could just read-react to the play in front of him he looked good. He's going to keep progressing, IMO.

Might not see as much of him next week though. Just a guess.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Did you watch any Gay? How'd he look?

Hammock was watching some Gay film the other day. I'm sure he could post some gifs.

[htismaqe]

Did you watch any Gay? How'd he look?

He looked pretty much like you would expect. He's fast but raw. He missed a couple of assignments but overall didn't stick out like a sore thumb.

[Simply Red]

Did you watch any Gay? How'd he look?

UH, HUH, HUH HUH HUH!

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Hammock was watching some Gay film the other day. I'm sure he could post some gifs.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/HPvfnOuz1tOgg/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611e6e8b378ecaf5826fb5cdf8b1fac4869fb659af5&rid=giphy.gif