Patrick Mahomes says a chunk of the Chiefs’ ‘struggles’ are on him. But are they?

[dirk digler]

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article246291560.html

Patrick Mahomes is endlessly self-critical, expansive when breaking down plays, and would rather shave his head than criticize a teammate. These are all good qualities in a quarterback, but they often conflict.

Like right now.

The Chiefs’ non-COVID-19 challenge of the week is making sure the strategy the Patriots just put on film for the football world to see does not become the accepted blueprint to slowing down the NFL’s most dynamic (though not best statistically) offense.

The short version: the Patriots dropped six, seven, and often eight defenders into coverage, lopping off deep throws and smothering intermediate routes.

It was, essentially, an exaggerated and better coached version of what the Texans and others have tried periodically but never to this much success. The Chiefs managed two field goals, three punts and a fumble in their first six possessions. They did not reach double figures in points until late in the third quarter.

The Patriots employ Bill Belichick, the greatest coach of our time, and Stephon Gilmore, the reigning defensive player of the year. Their secondary boasts next level intelligence that few opponents can match. Still, the Patriots present an interesting strategy.

Mahomes has taken responsibility. He did this late Monday night, and doubled down Wednesday afternoon.

“Just getting the ball out of my hand and finding the right reads,” he said about his challenge. “I said after the game — I didn’t even have to watch the film — there were some guys open and I wasn’t able to find them. That’s a great defense and we’re going against another one this week, so we need to accept the challenge every single play.”

Now, this doesn’t have to be said but here goes anyway: Mahomes’ standards are irrationally high, and he identifies opportunities through the organized chaos of NFL plays that the rest of us can’t.

But even after watching each of his drop backs four times — once live, once more on a replay, and twice each on the All-22 film — one miss stands out.

It came on the offense’s last snap of its first drive, the incomplete pass to a well-covered Sammy Watkins. Keep your eye on Travis Kelce, lined up tight on the left side and running a drag route to the right.

That should be a touchdown to Kelce.

https://giant.gfycat.com/HilariousShowyDwarfmongoose.webm

But other than that?

Maaaaayyyyyybe Tyreek Hill over the middle here?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AbandonedFatAplomadofalcon-mobile.mp4

But even here, that’s a relatively tight window, and Mahomes was feeling pressure — against three rushers, which we’ll get to soon — so the decision to scramble isn’t without reason.

Again: in the time it’s taking me to write this sentence Mahomes has forgotten more about quarterbacking and the Chiefs’ offense than I will ever know.

But I’m just not seeing these missed receivers. In the Patriots game, what shows up on film is a lot of covered receivers, and too many snaps where Mahomes either feels pressure from three or four rushers or drifts in the pocket because he’s expecting pressure.

Those are real issues. On Wednesday, Mahomes brought them up.

“I thought the offensive line did a good job,” he said. “there are a couple times I was drifting a little bit. So I’ll do better at working within the pocket. Especially when they’re only rushing three to four pass rushers, I’ll put trust in them.”

The offensive line. Now we’re getting warmer. Mahomes is right about the drifting, by the way. He does it, and knows it makes the offensive line’s job harder. Linemen protect areas of the pocket, and doing hand-to-hand combat with freakishly athletic and strong men means they cannot turn around and adjust to the quarterback’s movements.

A lineman might be doing a fine job protecting a spot seven yards behind the line of scrimmage, but if the quarterback drifts back to 11 yards, and a few to the left or right, then the protection is broken.

The bad habit comes honestly. He has the gifts to throw from any platform, and practices those throws enough to be effective. But it is an issue that diminishes his talents. When he drifts, the defense’s job becomes easier.

But he does it for a reason. Mahomes has been pressured on 53 of 169 dropbacks, according to Pro Football Focus. That’s almost one out of three. Now, Mahomes is different than most. His passer rating under pressure is “only” 102.7, compared with 118.8 with no pressure.

Here’s the plot twist of this column: it’s not about those drop backs, and it’s not about drifting, and it’s certainly not about being less than perfect with where the ball goes.

The biggest problem here is that when Mahomes drops back, his options are more difficult than they should be. Defenses should not be able to put seven or eight guys in coverage routinely. The Patriots did it because the Chiefs could not force them to change.

The Chiefs have the NFL’s best passing and overall offense, according to Football Outsiders, but only the 22nd-ranked run game.

An obvious point: you’d much prefer the league’s best passing offense than its best rushing offense.

One step more: any time the team that employs Mahomes calls a play in which Mahomes does not have an opportunity to do something awesome it better have a dang good reason.

But at the moment, at least, the run plays are not forcing defenses stacked deep against the pass to change strategy.

This showed up particularly often against the Patriots. Clyde Edwards-Helaire was given 16 carries and managed 64 yards. That’s not good enough against a defense designed to encourage more running plays.

Basically, too many plays like this one, first-and-10 against a nickel defense spread wide and deep to stop the pass.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LegalFearfulIndianskimmer-mobile.mp4

That play needs to work. Maybe Edwards-Helaire should’ve bounced outside, where he might have had more space. Maybe the blocking up front needs to ensure he doesn’t have to.

Either way, a team that drafted a running back in the first round to give the quarterback better options needs to be able to get ahead of the sticks when running on early downs against defenses focused on the pass.

Otherwise, what’s the point?

Edwards-Helaire acknowledged this Monday night.

“As far as running the ball, there’s some things we need to get cleaned up, from everybody’s standpoint and especially mine,” he said.

We live in a world that tends to exaggerate any point being made so let’s be clear: virtually any other team would trade for the Chiefs’ “problems” on offense. Nearly every other team would love to have Mahomes even if it meant he drifted twice as much and did it on every drop back. Also, Edwards-Helaire is an excellent receiver, and we’ll see more of that as the season progresses.

But these Chiefs have earned the burden of being judged by a Super Bowl standard. The Patriots’ strategy dragged the Chiefs below that line. The challenge now is to use the talent and brainpower already in-house to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

[htismaqe]

Pat did make a few mistakes the other night. He's not wrong. CEH made some bad reads in the running game, too. He's not wrong.

The simple fact is that the Patriots played some good defense and the Chiefs offense, across the board, didn't execute very well against something they really hadn't seen much of until Monday night.

[BigRedChief]

That’s a leader of “Type A” grown ass men right there.

[Sassy Squatch]

Yes they were.

[DRM08]

Yes they were.

Not entirely. The run game/OL is a problem that has nothing to do with Mahomes. Gaining 0 or 1 yard against a light box is not gonna get the job done. They need to be able to punish teams for dropping 8 guys into coverage.

[tk13]

We talked about this in the game thread and a couple other threads during the week. If you can't run the ball when the other team has 2 linemen and are playing the pass all the way, you're going to have a hard time. Some people were wondering why Reid ran so many draws, because Belichick was basically daring them to.

Also, not everyone has the Patriots secondary. Or a coach like Belichick, who if nothing else his teams generally play disciplined defense.

[KChiefs1]

Kelce was wide open.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201008/0a9279b92780de4b1bfad755c433bbfd.jpg

[dirk digler]

We talked about this in the game thread and a couple other threads during the week. If you can't run the ball when the other team has 2 linemen and are playing the pass all the way, you're going to have a hard time. Some people were wondering why Reid ran so many draws, because Belichick was basically daring them to.

Also, not everyone has the Patriots secondary. Or a coach like Belichick, who if nothing else his teams generally play disciplined defense.

Yeah we need to get our running game fixed some how. I don't think CEH is the issue, though he may have missed a couple of reads, but the OLine can't seem to run block very well IMO.

[htismaqe]

Yeah we need to get our running game fixed some how. I don't think CEH is the issue, though he may have missed a couple of reads, but the OLine can't seem to run block very well IMO.

CEH absolutely is part of the issue. What the Patriots were doing up front was complex and it was causing issues with the line AND CEH.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't running the ball between the tackles essentially doing the opponent a favor if they're only using 2 or 3 linemen? Given CEH's skill set and the subpar IOL, runs to the outside seem to make much more sense. Not every time of course, but the majority of the time.

[dirk digler]

CEH absolutely is part of the issue. What the Patriots were doing up front was complex and it was causing issues with the line AND CEH.

I don't think he is the main issue. All our backs are struggling running the ball it seems like.

[htismaqe]

I don't think he is the main issue. All our backs are struggling running the ball it seems like.

I'm not even going to talk about the other backs. I don't think they're ever going to be highly successful, regardless of how good the blocking is.

There was a half dozen plays where the blocking was actually decent and CEH chose the wrong read.

[TribalElder]

It's OK Mahomie, we still love you

[DaneMcCloud]

CEH absolutely is part of the issue. What the Patriots were doing up front was complex and it was causing issues with the line AND CEH.

Two things:

1. I rewatched the game. The Patriots had an excellent defensive scheme and seemed to know where Mahomes was going with the ball on nearly every down. While I didn't agree with some of the playcalling, the Patriots defense just didn't leave the Chiefs and Mahomes many options. Mahomes is right, he needs to get better because he blew some opportunities to score, which could have resulted in a Chiefs loss had the Patriots had even an average QB that night.

2. I'm a little confused by Reid's play selection on rushing downs. CEH isn't Kareem Hunt and he just doesn't have the power, leg strength and vision that Hunt brought to the Chiefs. I just can't understand this obsession with trying to run plays inside, which rarely have resulted in big gains and more often than not, have led to little to no yardage on those plays.

I feel as if I'm beating a dead horse but the Chiefs really, really, really need a complimentary running back to CEH. CEH is very gifted but also very limited. My concern, as it's been since March, is that if the Chiefs cannot establish a solid running game, Mahomes will face constant pressure all night because defenses just won't concern themselves with their rushing attack.

[htismaqe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't running the ball between the tackles essentially doing the opponent a favor if they're only using 2 or 3 linemen? Given CEH's skill set and the subpar IOL, runs to the outside seem to make much more sense. Not every time of course, but the majority of the time.

Running outside, trying to stretch the field, is VERY difficult to do against 7 and 8 defensive backs because they are already covering the short boundary.

Running to the edge is generally about the OL dragging the defense to the edge and getting a hat on them. With the way the Patriots were playing defense, there was already a guy (and sometimes two) other there waiting for the play. That's why the screen game was limited as well.

As for CEH, I know people haven't seen it yet, but CEH was one of the best interior runners in the nation last year. He's actually VERY good between the tackles. I just don't think the unit is clicking yet.

[dirk digler]

I'm not even going to talk about the other backs. I don't think they're ever going to be highly successful, regardless of how good the blocking is.

There was a half dozen plays where the blocking was actually decent and CEH chose the wrong read.

Like Dane I have beating this dead horse about needing better RB's than we got.

Maybe we just need to run more outside than inside...I don't know but we need to get our run game going or we are going to see this same defense every game.

[htismaqe]

Like Dane I have beating this dead horse about needing better RB's than we got.

Maybe we just need to run more outside than inside...I don't know but we need to get our run game going or we are going to see this same defense every game.

Getting a better backup RB isn't going to fix the interior running wholesale.

CEH and the line both need to improve. Again, CEH was one of the best interior runners in the nation at LSU. He has the ability. He has to get used to this offense, this line, and everything and he will be fine.

Getting backup RB will help when CEH needs to be spelled but it won't fix the main issue.

[dirk digler]

Getting a better backup RB isn't going to fix the interior running wholesale.

CEH and the line both need to improve. Again, CEH was one of the best interior runners in the nation at LSU. He has the ability. He has to get used to this offense, this line, and everything and he will be fine.

Getting backup RB will help when CEH needs to be spelled but it won't fix the main issue.

True. We just basically ended pre-season so hopefully they will start to get their groove.

[staylor26]

Running outside, trying to stretch the field, is VERY difficult to do against 7 and 8 defensive backs because they are already covering the short boundary.

Running to the edge is generally about the OL dragging the defense to the edge and getting a hat on them. With the way the Patriots were playing defense, there was already a guy (and sometimes two) other there waiting for the play. That's why the screen game was limited as well.

As for CEH, I know people haven't seen it yet, but CEH was one of the best interior runners in the nation last year. He's actually VERY good between the tackles. I just don't think the unit is clicking yet.

Exactly. We saw glimpses of this in the Texans game too, but for whatever reason it hasn’t been clicking since. I trust that they will figure it out.

[DaneMcCloud]

CEH and the line both need to improve. Again, CEH was one of the best interior runners in the nation at LSU. He has the ability. He has to get used to this offense, this line, and everything and he will be fine.

Getting backup RB will help when CEH needs to be spelled but it won't fix the main issue.

Yeah but in the mean time, they need to stop wasting downs and drives due to their lack of success from running the ball inside.

They've been lucky enough that it hasn't bit them in the ass and led to a loss yet but the level of competition isn't much easier this month.

Opposing teams also have film from the Chargers and Patriots games in order to implement a successful defensive game plan and I expect the Bills to give the Chiefs offense major fits, so Andy needs to get this figured out soon.

[htismaqe]

Yeah but in the mean time, they need to stop wasting downs and drives due to their lack of success from running the ball inside.

They've been lucky enough that it hasn't bit them in the ass and led to a loss yet but the level of competition isn't much easier this month.

Opposing teams also have film from the Chargers and Patriots games in order to implement a successful defensive game plan and I expect the Bills to give the Chiefs offense major fits, so Andy needs to get this figured out soon.

The Patriots game was really the first one where the opposing SCHEME caused real issues.

The Chargers game is somewhat of an anomaly. They literally have a front 4 that nobody else has.

It's the Patriot game plan that Andy needs to dissect and target for improvements.

[O.city]

If teams are gonna rush 3 and drop 8, you've gotta be able to consistently just gash them with the run. CEH averaged 4 yards a carry against the Pats which isn't awful, but damn.

I think they'll get there. Lest we forget, we've had to replace 2 interior OL right before the season.

[Pitt Gorilla]

CEH had a very sub-par game against this defense, with some of that on the OL. Go watch Browns/Cowboys to see how backs can gain great yardage without outstanding blocking.

[Demonpenz]

Boy people really cooled off on That 1st round RB pick. He will be good but not much cooking since the first game.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Two things:

1. I rewatched the game. The Patriots had an excellent defensive scheme and seemed to know where Mahomes was going with the ball on nearly every down. While I didn't agree with some of the playcalling, the Patriots defense just didn't leave the Chiefs and Mahomes many options. Mahomes is right, he needs to get better because he blew some opportunities to score, which could have resulted in a Chiefs loss had the Patriots had even an average QB that night.

2. I'm a little confused by Reid's play selection on rushing downs. CEH isn't Kareem Hunt and he just doesn't have the power, leg strength and vision that Hunt brought to the Chiefs. I just can't understand this obsession with trying to run plays inside, which rarely have resulted in big gains and more often than not, have led to little to no yardage on those plays.

I feel as if I'm beating a dead horse but the Chiefs really, really, really need a complimentary running back to CEH. CEH is very gifted but also very limited. My concern, as it's been since March, is that if the Chiefs cannot establish a solid running game, Mahomes will face constant pressure all night because defenses just won't concern themselves with their rushing attack.You are, of course, 100% correct.

[htismaqe]

CEH had a very sub-par game against this defense, with some of that on the OL. Go watch Browns/Cowboys to see how backs can gain great yardage without outstanding blocking.

Yeah, we know.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgifimage.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2Fbeating-dead-horse-gif-2.gif&f=1&nofb=1

[KC_Connection]

No. Generally our struggles are when Andy gets too cute or runs the ball too much on early downs (I think they're testing out how good CEH is right now, though) and puts Mahomes in a hole on a drive. If you just let Pat do his work, he will almost always get the job.

[DRM08]

If teams are gonna rush 3 and drop 8, you've gotta be able to consistently just gash them with the run. CEH averaged 4 yards a carry against the Pats which isn't awful, but damn.

I think they'll get there. Lest we forget, we've had to replace 2 interior OL right before the season.

Just looked at the list of plays for the game. About 40% of Clyde’s carries went for no gain. That’s not good against a light box. He had some nice chunk plays that really boosted the average per carry.

[milkshock]

Two things:

1. I rewatched the game. The Patriots had an excellent defensive scheme and seemed to know where Mahomes was going with the ball on nearly every down. While I didn't agree with some of the playcalling, the Patriots defense just didn't leave the Chiefs and Mahomes many options. Mahomes is right, he needs to get better because he blew some opportunities to score, which could have resulted in a Chiefs loss had the Patriots had even an average QB that night.

2. I'm a little confused by Reid's play selection on rushing downs. CEH isn't Kareem Hunt and he just doesn't have the power, leg strength and vision that Hunt brought to the Chiefs. I just can't understand this obsession with trying to run plays inside, which rarely have resulted in big gains and more often than not, have led to little to no yardage on those plays.

I feel as if I'm beating a dead horse but the Chiefs really, really, really need a complimentary running back to CEH. CEH is very gifted but also very limited. My concern, as it's been since March, is that if the Chiefs cannot establish a solid running game, Mahomes will face constant pressure all night because defenses just won't concern themselves with their rushing attack.


I completely agree CEH. He borders on being a situational back at this point. He’s great at very specific things but to rely on him as we did Hunt just won’t work.

It may sound ridiculous but I think you either go after a good FA RB in the off season or you draft another in say round 3.

[Best22]

Boy people really cooled off on That 1st round RB pick. He will be good but not much cooking since the first game.

He has 433 scrimmage yards in 4 games. That’s over 100 yards per game, for a rookie. He’s on pace for 1600 scrimmage yards

He’s fine. But people who automatically expected him to be Kareem Hunt will be disappointed

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Also on the deep ball to Tyreek into double coverage that almost got picked, he had Kelce wide open underneath for a solid 15 yard gain

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is one of those throw people thought you&#39;d have to coach out of Mahomes coming out. It&#39;s a rarity to see this from the MVP. Tries to throw to a double teamed Tyreek Hill and the guy guarding Demarcus Robinson comes off of him to nearly intercept the pass. <a href="https://t.co/365VGyMi4Z">pic.twitter.com/365VGyMi4Z</a></p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1314050748884422657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

CEH is sixth in the NFL in rushing yards btw and has more yards than Josh Jacobs

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Machines is second in the NFL in QBR at 87.7. Rodgers is #1 at 92.7. Josh Allen is #3 at 87.1

[O.city]

Something happened in that Tyreek throw, dunno if Robinson ran wrong route or what. Spacing was off, but yeah, that was a "I'm frustrated we haven't moved it like I wanted so fuck it I'm going deep" throws.

[htismaqe]

I completely agree CEH. He borders on being a situational back at this point. He’s great at very specific things but to rely on him as we did Hunt just won’t work.

It may sound ridiculous but I think you either go after a good FA RB in the off season or you draft another in say round 3.

:doh!:

[Hammock Parties]

Also on the deep ball to Tyreek into double coverage that almost got picked, he had Kelce wide open underneath for a solid 15 yard gain

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is one of those throw people thought you&#39;d have to coach out of Mahomes coming out. It&#39;s a rarity to see this from the MVP. Tries to throw to a double teamed Tyreek Hill and the guy guarding Demarcus Robinson comes off of him to nearly intercept the pass. <a href="https://t.co/365VGyMi4Z">pic.twitter.com/365VGyMi4Z</a></p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1314050748884422657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

When I saw this I thought he underthrew Robinson.

[Marcellus]

If teams are gonna rush 3 and drop 8, you've gotta be able to consistently just gash them with the run. CEH averaged 4 yards a carry against the Pats which isn't awful, but damn.

I think they'll get there. Lest we forget, we've had to replace 2 interior OL right before the season.

We beat Houston week one with this strategy, should have had more success against NE, they just need to clean it up a bit and stop getting beat up front when they outnumber the defense. CEH didn't have his best game from a vision standpoint either.

[DJ's left nut]

Exactly. We saw glimpses of this in the Texans game too, but for whatever reason it hasn’t been clicking since. I trust that they will figure it out.

Because the Chiefs are telegraphing tendencies BADLY.

There have been a couple of breakdowns on the run/pass mix over the last couple of weeks and the vast majority of early down runs are coming through 'kill' calls.

And essentially every time they kill a play, they kill to a run.

Teams are keying on the kill calls and are being coached to treat those as obvious run downs at that point. It's really hurting the Chiefs ability to dictate the play when the opposing side is attacking the run lanes at the snap.

It'll get ironed out. Mahomes will kill into a few stab routes or deep shots and that'll be that.

[Halfcan]

I can't believe we lost to the Pats...oh wait.

[DJ's left nut]

When I saw this I thought he underthrew Robinson.

I think he did.

That angle doesn't show it well, but I remember saying "wobble launcher!" out of his hand on that throw. The ball just traveled like shit and it took the piss out of it.

I think he was trying to go over the top to Robinson and either the ball slipped or he saw Hill flash w/ his defender and it got him a little crossed up and his body just kinda glitched as he released.

There was clearly something off on the ballistics of the throw and it killed its carry.

[Megatron96]

I re-watched the game, but didn't take any notes; I just wanted to see if I could see any big mistakes made by the Chiefs offense. And they did make more than a handful of them.

Nothing huge, but . . . okay, in a nutshell, Patrick tried to force the ball downfield a few times when he really should've taken what the defense was giving him. He does this all the time, and most of the time it works out brilliantly, but this time it didn't.

And I'm pretty sure Bill designed this defense to do exactly that. Pretty sure Bill did everything he could to take away the deep portion of the field and cluttered things up in the middle intermediate zones, leaving just the shorter edges available. In other words, Belichick designed the defense to allow Patrick to check-down without too much trouble, but make everything else a lot more difficult.

Of course, Mahomes doesn't want to check it down, so a few times he really tried to force the ball downfield, and a couple time's he tempted INTs, but fortunately got away with those throws. A couple other times he simply missed, such as the slight over-throw to Hill on the sideline. Now 90% of QBs don't make that throw anyway, so I can give Patrick a bit of a pass on that one, even though he makes that completion a lot. He is human after all.

Bottom line, Bill constructed a great defensive plan for Mahomes and it worked this time. He had Patrick a little confused early, kept him in the pocket most of the game, and took away the big completions that Mahomes usually gashes defenses for. He tried to make Patrick become Alex Smith, and it worked this time.

This defense of Bill's is actually pretty incredible when you get into it. The man designed a defense to combat Andy's creativity as a play-designer and play-caller, but also designed it to attack Mahomes' tendencies. That's high-level thinking.

[staylor26]

I completely agree CEH. He borders on being a situational back at this point. He’s great at very specific things but to rely on him as we did Hunt just won’t work.

It may sound ridiculous but I think you either go after a good FA RB in the off season or you draft another in say round 3.

:facepalm:

What a horrible fucking take.

[htismaqe]

He has 433 scrimmage yards in 4 games. That’s over 100 yards per game, for a rookie. He’s on pace for 1600 scrimmage yards

He’s fine. But people who automatically expected him to be Kareem Hunt will be disappointed

People are forgetting what Hunt's rookie season was like.

He broke 100 yards 4 times in his first 5 games.

He then had a stretch of SEVEN games where he didn't hit 100, including FOUR games where he rushed for 40 yards or less.

Nostalgic bias is a powerful thing.

[Pitt Gorilla]

He has 433 scrimmage yards in 4 games. That’s over 100 yards per game, for a rookie. He’s on pace for 1600 scrimmage yards

He’s fine. But people who automatically expected him to be Kareem Hunt will be disappointed

This. I love CEH and what he brings to the offense. He's an absolute weapon in the passing game and will continue to improve in the run game. He's not Kareem, though, and won't be.

[O.city]

It's a similar defense he used to use to stifle Manning. You make him be patient and take what you give him and tackle.

Those guys don't wanna do that. They wanna be aggressive and attack.

They did the same thing to the Chiefs in New England last year.

[RunKC]

Love CEH, but I still miss Kareem. Dude really fucked up and fucked us.

[htismaqe]

This. I love CEH and what he brings to the offense. He's an absolute weapon in the passing game and will continue to improve in the run game. He's not Kareem, though, and won't be.

No, I'm guessing he won't get into drunken altercations, lie about it, and get himself kicked off the team.

So no, he'll never be Kareem Hunt.

[staylor26]

JFC

I swear it will be 2025, the Chiefs will have 3 SB wins, and Pitt Gorilla will STILL be talking about how WE fucked up with Kareem Hunt.

[Pitt Gorilla]

No, I'm guessing he won't get into drunken altercations, lie about it, and get himself kicked off the team.

So no, he'll never be Kareem Hunt.

I hope he doesn't. We don't need to lose another league-leading rusher to a rival for absolutely nothing. THAT would be stupid AF.

[DJ's left nut]

JFC

I swear it will be 2025, the Chiefs will have 3 SB wins, and Pitt Gorilla will STILL be talking about how WE fucked up with Kareem Hunt.

I mean we DID fuck up with Hunt.

When we drafted him and not Kamara...

[Pitt Gorilla]

JFC

I swear it will be 2025, the Chiefs will have 3 SB wins, and Pitt Gorilla will STILL be talking about how WE ****ed up with Kareem Hunt.

Sounds perfect. But, why only 3? ;)

[Pitt Gorilla]

I mean we DID **** up with Hunt.

When we drafted him and not Kamara...
Great point and great draft.

[staylor26]

I mean we DID fuck up with Hunt.

When we drafted him and not Kamara...

Now that’s a fair point that I will 100% agree with.

We both know I loved Hunt going into the draft, but I loved Kamara even more and he was my guy as well in the 2nd.

We would’ve been fine if Hunt weren’t a fuck up, but given his stupidity, we definitely fucked up taking KPass over Kamara.

Kamara in this offense would be absolutely disgusting.

[KChiefs1]

Also on the deep ball to Tyreek into double coverage that almost got picked, he had Kelce wide open underneath for a solid 15 yard gain

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is one of those throw people thought you&#39;d have to coach out of Mahomes coming out. It&#39;s a rarity to see this from the MVP. Tries to throw to a double teamed Tyreek Hill and the guy guarding Demarcus Robinson comes off of him to nearly intercept the pass. <a href="https://t.co/365VGyMi4Z">pic.twitter.com/365VGyMi4Z</a></p>&mdash; Kent Swanson (@kent_swanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/kent_swanson/status/1314050748884422657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He was WIDE ASS OPEN!

[gold_and_red]

KC wins the SB if Hunt had remained on that team, which means Sutton, Ford and Houston are still here. Berry would still be day to day today.

[htismaqe]

I hope he doesn't. We don't need to lose another league-leading rusher to a rival for absolutely nothing. THAT would be stupid AF.

You can blame the Chiefs all you want.

It doesn't change the fact that Kareem Hunt bears 100% of the responsibility for what happened.

[htismaqe]

KC wins the SB if Hunt had remained on that team, which means Sutton, Ford and Houston are still here. Berry would still be day to day today.

What do you mean by "remained on the team"?

Kareem Hunt was on the commissioner's exempt list. The only way he "remained on the team" was for him not to kick a chick in a drunk fight.

[loochy]

Lol @ "struggles"

If "struggling" means winning the SB and starting the next season by going 4-0 and defeating the other 3 divisional winners, I'll struggle anytime, and so would the rest of the league.

[Pitt Gorilla]

What do you mean by "remained on the team"?

Kareem Hunt was on the commissioner's exempt list. The only way he "remained on the team" was for him not to kick a chick in a drunk fight.
I believe there's a Commissioner's Exempt list or some such, but your point largely remains.

[The Franchise]

I mean we DID fuck up with Hunt.

When we drafted him and not Kamara...

Damnt I wish we had drafted him. I was screaming to draft him the entire fucking time. KPass is nice to have but Mahomes and Kamara would be lethal.

[ChiefsFanatic]

People are forgetting what Hunt's rookie season was like.



He broke 100 yards 4 times in his first 5 games.



He then had a stretch of SEVEN games where he didn't hit 100, including FOUR games where he rushed for 40 yards or less.



Nostalgic bias is a powerful thing.How many times did Hunt run directly into the back of his offensive linemen or straight into a pile of humanity?

I have re-watched the game a couple of times, and I am going to watch the all-22 Friday night, but there were several runs where CEH had absolutely no chance to gain more than a yard because he literally ran directly into people, with no patience, or field vision.

Maybe that is what Reid and EB wanted, but I think that CEH is to blame for these ridiculously frustrating runs.

It reminded me of the offensive line in 2007. Larry Johnson had just posted back to back 1700 yard rushing seasons, but in 2007 he was often met in the back field for no gain because our O-line was trash. Except this time it is more on CEH than the O-line.

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[htismaqe]

I believe there's a Commissioner's Exempt list or some such, but your point largely remains.

That was exactly my point.

The Chiefs cutting him had nothing to do with him not playing. He wasn't going to play anyway - he was on the Commissioner's Exempt list.

He was never going to play for the Chiefs in 2018, regardless.

[htismaqe]

How many times did Hunt run directly into the back of his offensive linemen or straight into a pile of humanity?

I have re-watched the game a couple of times, and I am going to watch the all-22 Friday night, but there were several runs where CEH had absolutely no chance to gain more than a yard because he literally ran directly into people, with no patience, or field vision.

Maybe that is what Reid and EB wanted, but I think that CEH is to blame for these ridiculously frustrating runs.

It reminded me of the offensive line in 2007. Larry Johnson had just posted back to back 1700 yard rushing seasons, but in 2007 he was often met in the back field for no gain because our O-line was trash. Except this time it is more on CEH than the O-line.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

He's a rookie. He'll be fine.

Kareem Hunt had multiple games his rookie season where he had similar problems.

[gold_and_red]

What do you mean by "remained on the team"?

Kareem Hunt was on the commissioner's exempt list. The only way he "remained on the team" was for him not to kick a chick in a drunk fight.

If Hunt didn't screw up...

[ChiefsFanatic]

He's a rookie. He'll be fine.



Kareem Hunt had multiple games his rookie season where he had similar problems.I also believe that CEH will be fine, especially if we can get him involved in the passing game more, but what he did against the Patriots has to be concerning.

He was taken in the 1st round, and one of the major reasons was his ability to see holes or seams, make jump cuts, or hard cuts, and get through the hole or seem quickly.

But on those several runs, he didn't display any of those abilities, especially patience.

Again, I agree that in the long run he will be fine, but this isn't the long run, this is the Run-It-Back tour, and we are already without Big Game Dame.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[KC Hawks]

We have Kamara now in CEH. I hope.

[htismaqe]

I also believe that CEH will be fine, especially if we can get him involved in the passing game more, but what he did against the Patriots has to be concerning.

He was taken in the 1st round, and one of the major reasons was his ability to see holes or seams, make jump cuts, or hard cuts, and get through the hole or seem quickly.

But on those several runs, he didn't display any of those abilities, especially patience.

Again, I agree that in the long run he will be fine, but this isn't the long run, this is the Run-It-Back tour, and we are already without Big Game Dame.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

It was one game. Against the "greatest defensive coach in history".

People are way overreacting.

[ModSocks]

OH NOES WE SUCK AGAIN!

Draft Trevor Lawrence?

[O.city]

On the gif where Mahomes scrambles out of bounds, why leave the pocket?

[ModSocks]

On the gif where Mahomes scrambles out of bounds, why leave the pocket?

He was likely trying to manipulate the DB's to create space for the WR's to get open. But once he rolled out and the DB's never broke assignment the play was dead.

[L.A. Chieffan]

CEH has been underwhelming so far. I think he's gonna be a stud but as a rookie I think he needs more time to get his footing

[ModSocks]

CEH has been underwhelming so far. I think he's gonna be a stud but as a rookie I think he needs more time to get his footing

He's 6th in the league in yardage, 6th in yards per game.

There's obviously room for improvement, but he's doing fine for a rookie learning a complex offense on the go.

[Dunerdr]

This is all well and good but i think a lot of it has to do with the whole team coming out unfocused. How many times have we bitched about Andy teams coming out and playing down to the opponent. Cam didnt play and they got complacent imo.

I'm not saying the pats scheme didnt play a big part, but i think Mahomes lack of focus and just looking bored on the sideline has something to do with him not taking whats given. I think he was kind of out of it and just said fuck it i can play my game and beat these fuckers.

[Pitt Gorilla]

CEH has been underwhelming so far. I think he's gonna be a stud but as a rookie I think he needs more time to get his footing

SIXTH in rushing is...underwhelming? FIFTH in total yards is...underwhelming? CEH is going to continue to improve and see/understand holes better, but I'm not sure how his performance is underwhelming right now.

[ModSocks]

This is all well and good but i think a lot of it has to do with the whole team coming out unfocused. How many times have we bitched about Andy teams coming out and playing down to the opponent. Cam didnt play and they got complacent imo.

Yeah im not buying that.

We can't just blame motivation every time the Chiefs struggle a little bit to find a rhythm.

The Chiefs have to get better at playing small ball, that's all there is to it really.

What's really happening here is that the NFL has caught on to the Chiefs tendency to constantly look for the big play, they're forcing the Chiefs to stay patient and do what they don't really want to do, which is a 10-15 play drive.

Andy needs to get more creative in the run game and the screen game. The OL has to run block better, and CEH needs more experience.

Those things WILL happen and by the end of the season they'll be gel'n.

[htismaqe]

He's 6th in the league in yardage, 6th in yards per game.

There's obviously room for improvement, but he's doing fine for a rookie learning a complex offense on the go.

SIXTH in rushing is...underwhelming? FIFTH in total yards is...underwhelming? CEH is going to continue to improve and see/understand holes better, but I'm not sure how his performance is underwhelming right now.

Exactly.

[prhom]

Honest question here for those with better football knowledge. What can you do to punish a team for trying this if the run game isn’t working? Quick read option slant passes to WRs coming off the edge? Bubble screens? We don’t do a lot of under center stuff, but does play-action with Mahomes rolling out on the bootleg give him more options to escape a limited pass rush? Or do you go with heavier personnel and rely on fooling the defense as to when you are going deep or sneaking Kelce out of a blocking role?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Honest question here for those with better football knowledge. What can you do to punish a team for trying this if the run game isn’t working? Quick read option slant passes to WRs coming off the edge? Bubble screens? We don’t do a lot of under center stuff, but does play-action with Mahomes rolling out on the bootleg give him more options to escape a limited pass rush? Or do you go with heavier personnel and rely on fooling the defense as to when you are going deep or sneaking Kelce out of a blocking role?

Honestly, the answer (IMO) is you make the run game work. You should run straight through a 3-8 look. Maybe a draw (which the Chiefs tried and Chief Fan whined about) allows the stunts to play out and lets the OL do what they need to do. CEH and the OL simply need to do their jobs. Period. Take the 5-8 yards and go again.

[htismaqe]

Honest question here for those with better football knowledge. What can you do to punish a team for trying this if the run game isn’t working? Quick read option slant passes to WRs coming off the edge? Bubble screens? We don’t do a lot of under center stuff, but does play-action with Mahomes rolling out on the bootleg give him more options to escape a limited pass rush? Or do you go with heavier personnel and rely on fooling the defense as to when you are going deep or sneaking Kelce out of a blocking role?

You can't really run screens on the edge because they have so many DB's on the field and they already have people out there. As I said earlier, working the edge of the field works when you're pulling the defense from the inside out.

When the defense already has at least 1 and sometimes 2 DB's already out in the short boundary zone, it's really hard because those plays really depend on outnumbering the defense by pulling linemen or using WR's as blockers.

The bottom line is the best way to punish a team playing that kind of defense is to run the ball well.

[htismaqe]

Honestly, the answer (IMO) is you make the run game work. You should run straight through a 3-8 look. Maybe a draw (which the Chiefs tried and Chief Fan whined about) allows the stunts to play out and lets the OL do what they need to do. CEH and the OL simply need to do their jobs. Period. Take the 5-8 yards and go again.

Exactly.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Exactly.
Again, Chief Fan is going to whine about "running up the middle" but it's the correct answer. They simply HAVE to execute against a lite front/box.

[DaneMcCloud]

We have Kamara now in CEH. I hope.

I don't think so. Kamara is bigger, stronger and faster than CEH.

That said, I don't think it's unfair at all to say that CEH has been a mild disappointment.

Once Mahomes returned from injury last year, the running game hit on all cylinders with a healthy Damien Williams, who absolutely exploded in the playoffs behind an offensive line that was either equal to or lesser than the current offensive line.

Osemele is an upgrade over Wisnewski or anyone else they trotted out at left guard last season while Wylie and LDT are fairly even, although I'd give the slight edge to Wylie.

The only thing that has changed is the running back.

[htismaqe]

Again, Chief Fan is going to whine about "running up the middle" but it's the correct answer. They simply HAVE to execute against a lite front/box.

Yep.

[dlphg9]

This isn't rocket science and it's not Andy trying to be "cute". This place has a tendency to blame Andy and his play calling when the players are not executing the plays.
When the defense is dropping back 8 people or they only have 5-6 people in the box then you should run it and run it some more.

Good God could you have imagined Jamaal Charles' stats if he was on this team in his prime with 5 people in the box? He would have had 500 yards Monday. Andy did the right thing by running it and if CEH, our 1st round back that is supposed to be a stud, could have done a better job when he was running it or the offensive line could have blocked worth a shit, then Patrick Mahomes could have had some throws that didn't go into 8 man coverage. That many people in coverage make the throwing lanes really cluttered and the windows to throw in are extremely small.

It's really simple, if we run worth a shit on Monday, then the Pats have to change their defensive game plan and if they don't CEH should have had 200+ yards. Patrick may have missed a couple of players being open, but that's really the only blame that can be placed on him. The offense underperforming is on CEH and the offensive line.

[staylor26]

I don't think so. Kamara is bigger, stronger and faster than CEH.

That said, I don't think it's unfair at all to say that CEH has been a mild disappointment.

Once Mahomes returned from injury last year, the running game hit on all cylinders with a healthy Damien Williams, who absolutely exploded in the playoffs behind an offensive line that was either equal to or lesser than the current offensive line.

Osemele is an upgrade over Wisnewski or anyone else they trotted out at left guard last season while Wylie and LDT are fairly even, although I'd give the slight edge to Wylie.

The only thing that has changed is the running back.

Faster? Absolutely.

Bigger? He’s 3 inches taller and weighs more, but CEH has more muscle and is more compact.

Stronger? No way.

Kamara is absolutely the better player though, and that’s fine. He’s arguably the best RB in the NFL this year.

The only reason CEH can really be considered a disappointment so far is because the expectations were SO high (especially after week 1).

[dlphg9]

Yep.

It's like Lil Chiefy can't stand to blame the players and so they blame it on the play calling.

[Pitt Gorilla]

This isn't rocket science and it's not Andy trying to be "cute". This place has a tendency to blame Andy and his play calling when the players are not executing the plays.
When the defense is dropping back 8 people or they only have 5-6 people in the box then you should run it and run it some more.

Good God could you have imagined Jamaal Charles' stats if he was on this team in his prime with 5 people in the box? He would have had 500 yards Monday. Andy did the right thing by running it and if CEH, our 1st round back that is supposed to be a stud, could have done a better job when he was running it or the offensive line could have blocked worth a shit, then Patrick Mahomes could have had some throws that didn't go into 8 man coverage. That many people in coverage make the throwing lanes really cluttered and the windows to throw in are extremely small.

It's really simple, if we run worth a shit on Monday, then the Pats have to change their defensive game plan and if they don't CEH should have had 200+ yards. Patrick may have missed a couple of players being open, but that's really the only blame that can be placed on him. The offense underperforming is on CEH and the offensive line.
Blaming play-calling is so ****ing lazy (and typically uninformed). Andy and EB know what they're doing. Chief Fan knows significantly less.

[L.A. Chieffan]

He's 6th in the league in yardage, 6th in yards per game.

There's obviously room for improvement, but he's doing fine for a rookie learning a complex offense on the go.

SIXTH in rushing is...underwhelming? FIFTH in total yards is...underwhelming? CEH is going to continue to improve and see/understand holes better, but I'm not sure how his performance is underwhelming right now.

Maybe underwhelming is too harsh and is just my incredibly high expectations I had coming in for him, but ya just using the eye test and not stats it seems like he's missing holes and cuts that I'd thought he'd be hitting. Again I think he just needs a little more time adjusting to the pros and he's gonna blow up

[DaneMcCloud]

Stronger? No way.

Maybe not weight room stronger but he's been a better finisher than CEH to date.

[htismaqe]

Maybe underwhelming is too harsh and is just my incredibly high expectations I had coming in for him, but ya just using the eye test and not stats it seems like he's missing holes and cuts that I'd thought he'd be hitting. Again I think he just needs a little more time adjusting to the pros and he's gonna blow up

Rookie.

New pieces on the offensive line.

No preseason.

This isn't a normal year.

[staylor26]

Maybe not weight room stronger but he's been a better finisher than CEH to date.

CEH is more of a power runner than Kamara will ever be. I know his ability between the tackles hasn’t quite shown yet outside of week 1, but it’s a fact. Kamara is more of a finesse back.

[prhom]

Honestly, the answer (IMO) is you make the run game work. You should run straight through a 3-8 look. Maybe a draw (which the Chiefs tried and Chief Fan whined about) allows the stunts to play out and lets the OL do what they need to do. CEH and the OL simply need to do their jobs. Period. Take the 5-8 yards and go again.

Thanks. Well, I think the good news is the OL and CEH will get a chance to work on improving against 3 man fronts. They will be seeing more of it, so it seems.

[DaneMcCloud]

Blaming play-calling is so ****ing lazy (and typically uninformed). Andy and EB know what they're doing. Chief Fan knows significantly less.

Come on, man. The Chiefs ran CEH into the pile on the goal line against the Texans unsuccessfully, time after time. Most people wrote it off as Andy being "vanilla" but we've seen them try this strategy again without much success.

Andy Reid has always fallen into these traps in which a play design isn't successful so he'll try and try and try until he finds success. That's not a knock on him personally or a knock on his accomplishments but he has certain tendencies that often get him into trouble.

Damien Williams had far more success last season behind an inferior offensive line, so Andy needs to start calling run plays better suited for CEH and stop wasting possessions and downs on plays that just are not working.

[KC Hawks]

Faster? Absolutely.

Bigger? He’s 3 inches taller and weighs more, but CEH has more muscle and is more compact.

Stronger? No way.

Kamara is absolutely the better player though, and that’s fine. He’s arguably the best RB in the NFL this year.

The only reason CEH can really be considered a disappointment so far is because the expectations were SO high (especially after week 1).

And Kamara is not THAT much faster than CEH. He ran a 4.56 compared to 4.6 for CEH.

And there's no doubt Kamara is better than CEH right now, I just meant I hope CEH can eventually turn into a Kamara-type player.

[dlphg9]

Rookie.

New pieces on the offensive line.

No preseason.

This isn't a normal year.

I tend to forget those things from time to time. Hell he shouldn't even be getting this many carries right now. If Damien is playing CEH is probably getting half of the touches he is now. It's just gonna take time for him to get up to speed. He didn't have a typical off-season and that's gotta be a huge reason for some of him not looking as good as he should.

[Why Not?]

It was one game. Against the "greatest defensive coach in history".

People are way overreacting.


And a game we won by double digits at that.

[staylor26]

Come on, man. The Chiefs ran CEH into the pile on the goal line against the Texans unsuccessfully, time after time. Most people wrote it off as Andy being "vanilla" but we've seen them try this strategy again without much success.

Andy Reid has always fallen into these traps in which a play design isn't successful so he'll try and try and try until he finds success. That's not a knock on him personally or a knock on his accomplishments but he has certain tendencies that often get him into trouble.

Damien Williams had far more success last season behind an inferior offensive line, so Andy needs to start calling run plays better suited for CEH and stop wasting possessions and downs on plays that just are not working.

Absolutely agree here Dane.

I’ve been screaming at my TV every week to get CEH outside, and when they finally did it a couple times this past week we had success. That’s not a coincidence.

This team has struggled to run inside consistently going back to last year.

[DaneMcCloud]

CEH is more of a power runner than Kamara will ever be. I know his ability between the tackles hasn’t quite shown yet outside of week 1, but it’s a fact. Kamara is more of a finesse back.

Kamara just has a smoothness to his game that I don't believe CEH will ever match. That's so much of a knock on CEH but rather deserved praise for Kamara, who may be the best running back in the league but if not, he's certainly the best suited running back for the Saints and Chiefs style of offense.

That said, I'm sure that CEH will get going at some point this season and when that happens, look out.

[Hammock Parties]

CEH is about to nuke the Raiders. Their run D is garbage and their best DT is now out.

[prhom]

You can't really run screens on the edge because they have so many DB's on the field and they already have people out there. As I said earlier, working the edge of the field works when you're pulling the defense from the inside out.

When the defense already has at least 1 and sometimes 2 DB's already out in the short boundary zone, it's really hard because those plays really depend on outnumbering the defense by pulling linemen or using WR's as blockers.

The bottom line is the best way to punish a team playing that kind of defense is to run the ball well.

Thanks. I guess they just have to execute better and run effectively. I’m just making it too complicated. I think if anyone can get them going it should be Bienemy. If he can’t light a fire with CEH and the OL, I’m not sure anyone could.

[staylor26]

One other thing to think about guys, look around the NFL at all of the other rookie RB’s.

Taylor has been inconsistent.

Dobbins and Akers have done absolutely nothing.

Swift hasn’t done much either.

All of the rookie RB’s are off to a slow start. I think this is a symptom of the lack of preseason and a normal offseason.

[DaneMcCloud]

And a game we won by double digits at that.

But to be fair, the Patriots started a guy at QB that was never, ever a starting quality QB and should have been out of the league 5 years ago.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs have a lot of things to clean up offensively.

[RunKC]

Kamara just has a smoothness to his game that I don't believe CEH will ever match. That's so much of a knock on CEH but rather deserved praise for Kamara, who may be the best running back in the league but if not, he's certainly the best suited running back for the Saints and Chiefs style of offense.

That said, I'm sure that CEH will get going at some point this season and when that happens, look out.

How would you compare him to Damien Williams thus far?

I think CEH has been as good of a receiver and better balance/strength for yards after contact, but he’s not doing as well on those between the tackles runs compared to what I expected which was the problem I had with Damien.

[htismaqe]

Absolutely agree here Dane.

I’ve been screaming at my TV every week to get CEH outside, and when they finally did it a couple times this past week we had success. That’s not a coincidence.

This team has struggled to run inside consistently going back to last year.

Some of that success on the edge came because of them looking for us to run inside. Against a 3-man front with 8 DB's, you're not going to have success running to the edge over and over.

[staylor26]

Kamara just has a smoothness to his game that I don't believe CEH will ever match. That's so much of a knock on CEH but rather deserved praise for Kamara, who may be the best running back in the league but if not, he's certainly the best suited running back for the Saints and Chiefs style of offense.

That said, I'm sure that CEH will get going at some point this season and when that happens, look out.

Smooth is the best word to describe him honestly. He glides around the field like Jamaal even though he doesn’t have his top end speed. Kamara has been amazing this year and would make this offense literally unstoppable.

[htismaqe]

One other thing to think about guys, look around the NFL at all of the other rookie RB’s.

Taylor has been inconsistent.

Dobbins and Akers have done absolutely nothing.

Swift hasn’t done much either.

All of the rookie RB’s are off to a slow start. I think this is a symptom of the lack of preseason and a normal offseason.

Yep.

[staylor26]

Some of that success on the edge came because of them looking for us to run inside. Against a 3-man front with 8 DB's, you're not going to have success running to the edge over and over.

Agreed. You have to mix it up and be able to do both. I just don’t think they’ve been trying to get him outside enough.

[DaneMcCloud]

One other thing to think about guys, look around the NFL at all of the other rookie RB’s.

Taylor has been inconsistent.

Dobbins and Akers have done absolutely nothing.

Swift hasn’t done much either.

All of the rookie RB’s are off to a slow start. I think this is a symptom of the lack of preseason and a normal offseason.

Akers is the biggest surprise for me because I thought he'd be an explosive player right out of the gate.

Maybe it has something to do with the other two Rams running backs, who have performed better to than Akers to date, but it's still a bit of a shock to me.

[staylor26]

Akers is the biggest surprise for me because I thought he'd be an explosive player right out of the gate.

Maybe is has something to do with the other two Rams running backs. who have performed better to date, but it's still a bit of a shock to me.

To be fair, he did have an injury very early in week 2 and hasn’t played since. Sounds like he will be back this week, so we’ll see how he does. I think he should separate himself from those guys after a few weeks.

I have him and CEH in my $10,000 pot fantasy league, so needless to say I’m really hoping that both of them get rolling here shortly. I also have Swift.

[Pitt Gorilla]

One other thing to think about guys, look around the NFL at all of the other rookie RB’s.

Taylor has been inconsistent.

Dobbins and Akers have done absolutely nothing.

Swift hasn’t done much either.

All of the rookie RB’s are off to a slow start. I think this is a symptom of the lack of preseason and a normal offseason.Absolutely. CEH has been quite good for a rookie with no preseason.

[Buehler445]

If teams are gonna rush 3 and drop 8, you've gotta be able to consistently just gash them with the run. CEH averaged 4 yards a carry against the Pats which isn't awful, but damn.

I think they'll get there. Lest we forget, we've had to replace 2 interior OL right before the season.

This

Mahomes missed some things and made some bad reads. But all in all he was good enough to win.

That being said. Big thing is if you’re facing a light box you have to be effective running the ball and all the discussion about CEH, in most cases (Jamaal Charles excluded) most of the running game is defined by the OL. That’s where I’d look.

[DJ's left nut]

Come on, man. The Chiefs ran CEH into the pile on the goal line against the Texans unsuccessfully, time after time. Most people wrote it off as Andy being "vanilla" but we've seen them try this strategy again without much success.

Andy Reid has always fallen into these traps in which a play design isn't successful so he'll try and try and try until he finds success. That's not a knock on him personally or a knock on his accomplishments but he has certain tendencies that often get him into trouble.

Damien Williams had far more success last season behind an inferior offensive line, so Andy needs to start calling run plays better suited for CEH and stop wasting possessions and downs on plays that just are not working.

He was getting hit largely from the side and no, Kamara doesn't bounce through any of the straight shots CEH has taken.

One thing that has remained universal with CEH is that the dude runs HARD through contact. Exceptional contact balance, keeps his legs churning and absolutely moves the pile. I mean hell, did you forget that run against the Ravens where there were seven guys on him and they blew the play dead? He still never went to the ground.

Kamara is a better back but I'm with staylor here - I don't know where you're getting 'stronger' or even better finisher. Better vision that's allowing him to take more glancing blows than CEH has taken but that's something that CEH will likely develop in time.

The absolute last thing with Edwards Helaire that I'm worried about right now his is power. He's a damn strong, low to the ground runner that's punishing dudes. Those times hes failed in short yardage situations aren't times when many other backs in the league would've just blasted 600 lbs of human being forward.

Too many people wildly overestimate the 'power backs' ability to just push these massive stacks of humanity forward. Very few of them truly do.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I miss Jamaal Charles ��

[DJ's left nut]

Akers is the biggest surprise for me because I thought he'd be an explosive player right out of the gate.

Maybe it has something to do with the other two Rams running backs, who have performed better to than Akers to date, but it's still a bit of a shock to me.

Akers required a lot of projection to envision him being great.

I was guilty of it. He struggled at FSU ('struggle' is always relative for a RB at a football power) but you could see a hell of a tool set and for the most part I blamed those struggles on an inferior OL just not giving him a chance.

But the problem w/ seeing a guy NOT do a thing consistently and chalking it up to systemic failures is that you still haven't seen him actually do it consistently. You just think he can.

Tough line to straddle but one scouts get paid to figure out.

[O.city]

Rookies had the weirdest offseason ever. It's not surprising some are struggling.

[DaneMcCloud]

Kamara is a better back but I'm with staylor here - I don't know where you're getting 'stronger' or even better finisher. Better vision that's allowing him to take more glancing blows than CEH has taken but that's something that CEH will likely develop in time.

That's probably the closest description of what I was attempting to say.

I will say this, although it's completely irrelevant at this point, but in watching Kareem Hunt with the Browns last weekend, along with a few Chiefs games that have been airing on The NFL Network in the past week, fucking Kareem Hunt is as close to a perfect running back I've ever seen in a Chiefs uniform.

His balance, yards after contact, leg movement, stiff arms and receiving ability are just ridiculous. Good God, can you imagine just how unstoppable this offense would be, right now, with Hunt?

[DaneMcCloud]

Akers required a lot of projection to envision him being great.

I was guilty of it. He struggled at FSU ('struggle' is always relative for a RB at a football power) but you could see a hell of a tool set and for the most part I blamed those struggles on an inferior OL just not giving him a chance.

But the problem w/ seeing a guy NOT do a thing consistently and chalking it up to systemic failures is that you still haven't seen him actually do it consistently. You just think he can.

Tough line to straddle but one scouts get paid to figure out.

Yeah and the Rams have certainly had their struggles the past two years with their offensive line.

I know they've added a few guys during the draft and offseason but they have a long way to go before they're even considered average at run blocking, IMO.

[staylor26]

Rookies had the weirdest offseason ever. It's not surprising some are struggling.

CEH was one of the very few to have a huge game week 1.

Over the last couple of weeks you’ve started to see guys like Jefferson, Higgins, Aiyuk, Swift etc. start to flash or even breakout.

It was a great rookie class and I think we’ll start to see more show what they got over the next few weeks.

[DJ's left nut]

My dear, sweet Aiyuk....{tear}

I wanted that dude to slide in the 2nd sooooo bad much. I knew it wasn't terribly likely but damn did I like that guy.

[staylor26]

My dear, sweet Aiyuk....{tear}

I wanted that dude to slide in the 2nd sooooo bad much. I knew it wasn't terribly likely but damn did I like that guy.

Yea I would have loved to have Tyreek, Hardman, and Aiyuk for the next few years.

[dirk digler]

what if we used more 2 TE sets for the run game? do some play action off of that...

[chiefzilla1501]

You gotta appreciate a guy who takes accountability. Id say the biggest "struggle" has been playing 2 of the 3 defenses designed to frustrate us. Chargers, pats, and 49ers. And we won those 2 games. And in NE we throttled them but just couldn't close drives. If this is our worst, look out world.

[mr. tegu]

He had one throw to I think an open Hill that was an absolute duck. Anyone remember this?

I also felt like he was bailing the pocket too soon in this game at times.

[htismaqe]

That's probably the closest description of what I was attempting to say.

I will say this, although it's completely irrelevant at this point, but in watching Kareem Hunt with the Browns last weekend, along with a few Chiefs games that have been airing on The NFL Network in the past week, fucking Kareem Hunt is as close to a perfect running back I've ever seen in a Chiefs uniform.

His balance, yards after contact, leg movement, stiff arms and receiving ability are just ridiculous. Good God, can you imagine just how unstoppable this offense would be, right now, with Hunt?

Kareem Hunt, 2018, 11 games:

427 YAC, 2.4 YAC/att, 18 broken tackles

CEH after 4 games:

175 YAC, 2.5 YAC/att, 9 broken tackles

Like I said before about Hunt, nostalgic bias is a powerful force.

[KChiefs1]

CEH is no Marcus Allen on the goal line.

Never seen anyone who could smell the end zone better than him....

[htismaqe]

CEH is no Marcus Allen on the goal line.

Never seen anyone who could smell the end zone better than him....

Not many people are. It's Marcus Allen for God's sake. LOL

[Dante84]

I just read through the thread and haven't seen one mention of Reiter yet.

He sort of gets his shit pushed in in that 3rd gif in the OP, almost to the point where it looks like he's clogging the lane at worst, or in the way of the cutback at best.

I haven't followed our OL play close enough to notice, but is that a trend?

I remember we were very high on Cesar Ruiz at the tail end of Round 1, before he was picked. Curious to see if that becomes a priority upgrade in the offseason.

[Megatron96]

I just read through the thread and haven't seen one mention of Reiter yet.

He sort of gets his shit pushed in in that 3rd gif in the OP, almost to the point where it looks like he's clogging the lane at worst, or in the way of the cutback at best.

I haven't followed our OL play close enough to notice, but is that a trend?

I remember we were very high on Cesar Ruiz at the tail end of Round 1, before he was picked. Curious to see if that becomes a priority upgrade in the offseason.

Reiter as a run-blocker leaves something to be desired; we have him because he scores pretty well as a pass pro guy. But yeah, when I rewatched the game, Reiter was getting stoned several times on running plays. It's disappointing, but not unexpected really. There's always hope he'll improve in that area over the next 3-4 weeks as well. But he's playing C for us because he is an above-average pass protector.

[WhiteWhale]

Yeah im not buying that.

We can't just blame motivation every time the Chiefs struggle a little bit to find a rhythm.

The Chiefs have to get better at playing small ball, that's all there is to it really.

What's really happening here is that the NFL has caught on to the Chiefs tendency to constantly look for the big play, they're forcing the Chiefs to stay patient and do what they don't really want to do, which is a 10-15 play drive.

Andy needs to get more creative in the run game and the screen game. The OL has to run block better, and CEH needs more experience.

Those things WILL happen and by the end of the season they'll be gel'n.

So much this.

Watch how many times KC runs max protect and only run 2 or 3 routes. It fails most of the time as everyone has their safety dropping 55 yards back.

This offense needs to remember how to get those body blows to open up the head.

[BigRedChief]

Because the Chiefs are telegraphing tendencies BADLY.You mean like running a damn draw on 2nd down up the middle with Kelce on the sidelines almost every possesion?

[Red Dawg]

I really thought we would be able to run the ball better than we have. CEH gets stuffed an awful lot for loke 2 yards a pop.

[BigRedChief]

what if we used more 2 TE sets for the run game? do some play action off of that...Quit running CEH up the middle practically every time. Get him out in space where he belongs. He's a tough dude but he's not a inside the tackles runner. Never will be.

[WhiteWhale]

I just read through the thread and haven't seen one mention of Reiter yet.

He sort of gets his shit pushed in in that 3rd gif in the OP, almost to the point where it looks like he's clogging the lane at worst, or in the way of the cutback at best.

I haven't followed our OL play close enough to notice, but is that a trend?

I remember we were very high on Cesar Ruiz at the tail end of Round 1, before he was picked. Curious to see if that becomes a priority upgrade in the offseason.

KC has had sub par interior play for years. Center has been a weakness since morse went to buffalo.

Team talked like they expected niang to start out inside, but he opted out. Doctor average opted out. Osimele or whatever seems inconsistent. He was great opening day, but hasn't caught my eye since. The rest are all below average players.

They always get their shit pushed in.

[Megatron96]

Quit running CEH up the middle practically every time. Get him out in space where he belongs. He's a tough dude but he's not a inside the tackles runner. Never will be.

Uh, from what I could see of his college career, he ran between the tackles quite a bit with a lot of success.

I really think he just needs to get comfortable with his OL and how they play, and the OL has to block up better, period. But considering we began the season with two brand-new-to-us OGs, I don't feel like our running game is underperforming by that much. It should get better, and I think by quite a bit before too long (3-5 weeks?), and then we'll have a much better idea of what we're going into the post-season with, as far as the run-game is concerned.

[WhiteWhale]

Quit running CEH up the middle practically every time. Get him out in space where he belongs. He's a tough dude but he's not a inside the tackles runner. Never will be.

He did fine on inside gap runs in college. The interior OL makes it hard for anyone to run inside. That's why KC got FA help and drafted a kid in the 3rd.

[htismaqe]

Quit running CEH up the middle practically every time. Get him out in space where he belongs. He's a tough dude but he's not a inside the tackles runner. Never will be.

That's simply incorrect.

He was one of the best running backs in CFB last year running between the tackles.

[Shag]

Kelce was wide open.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201008/0a9279b92780de4b1bfad755c433bbfd.jpg

Sammy's open, too, and is clearly the first read. He's got inside position and a step, and he's coming clear of the LB, who's heading the opposite direction. Should have been a TD.

[htismaqe]

Uh, from what I could of his college career, he ran between the tackles quite a bit with a lot of success.

I really think he just needs to get comfortable with his OL and how they play, and the OL has to block up better, period. But considering we began the season with two brand-new-to-us OGs, I don't feel like our running game is underperforming by that much. It should get better, and I think by quite a bit before too long (3-5 weeks?), and then we'll have a much better idea of what we're going into the post-season with, as far as the run-game is concerned.

This.

He was literally GREAT between the tackles at LSU. He had no preseason, he's a rookie, and not only has the offensive line had some shuffling, he's never played with them.

It takes time.

[Megatron96]

Uh, from what I could see of his college career, he ran between the tackles quite a bit with a lot of success.

I really think he just needs to get comfortable with his OL and how they play, and the OL has to block up better, period. But considering we began the season with two brand-new-to-us OGs, I don't feel like our running game is underperforming by that much. It should get better, and I think by quite a bit before too long (3-5 weeks?), and then we'll have a much better idea of what we're going into the post-season with, as far as the run-game is concerned.

Correction: one brand-new-to-us OG, KO. Wylie is obviously not new. Got carried away for a second, my bad. But Wylie had a funny season last year, kinda moving around as injuries piled up.

[Megatron96]

Sammy's open, too, and is clearly the first read. He's got inside position and a step, and he's coming clear of the LB, who's heading the opposite direction. Should have been a TD.

Here's one of the things I've noticed about Patrick since last season: he sometimes goes too fast. Mentally, I mean.

He reads so quick sometimes that he looks at Sammy, for instance, and he's not open yet, but if Patrick had waited just 3/4s of a second Watkins would've become wide open, but Mahomes has already gone to the next read. He knows about it, because I remember a highlight reel from last season where he says it out loud to Andy on the bench. He said something like "Yeah, I should've waited a sec, because Sammy comes wide open, But I missed him that time." Wish I could remember the exact game, so i could give you guys the exact play. Ah well.

Anyway, he knows he does it, and as the season progresses I think he'll be just fine in that regard. I have to remind myself sometimes that we really should be playing the first regular season game this week, not the fifth. Probably the offense is still working out some kinks, regardless of how amazing they looked against the Ravens a couple weeks ago.

[KCJake]

Offensive line. That's the issue. When Mahomes has a clean pocket, he completes 98% of his passes

[Rasputin]

I don't give a shit Patrick Mahomes II is entitled to have some shitty games because he learns quicker than anyone and holds himself to a higher standard. I wouldn't want to be the team the week after his game is scrutinized.

[chiefzilla1501]

We were a few plays away from having a great offense against an outstanding defense designed specifically to beat us. A few mahomes throws in tight coverage a touch too deep. A Sammy Watkins fumble. Bellichick coming up with a brilliant red zone scheme that Reid eventually figured out. It's not like LAC where we looked just flat in the first half. It's more a credit to bellichick than it is a discredit to our offense.

[WhiteWhale]

I don't give a shit Patrick Mahomes II is entitled to have some shitty games because he learns quicker than anyone and holds himself to a higher standard. I wouldn't want to be the team the week after his game is scrutinized.

The thing is he doesnt have shitty games.

It's just that once in a while he looks human.

[dlphg9]

The thing is he doesnt have shitty games.

It's just that once in a while he looks human.

Patrick Mahomes is like Captain America. He's human, but everything is maxed out.

[BigRedChief]

That's simply incorrect.

He was one of the best running backs in CFB last year running between the tackles.
You think he’s having success in the NFL running between the tackles? You don’t think the DL are bigger/Stronger/quicker than in college? The LB’s are faster and stronger than in college? Breeland Speakes had a fantastic college tape too.
I think CEH is going to be great for us. Just not between the tackles and goal line.

[WhiteWhale]

You think he’s having success in the NFL running between the tackles? You don’t think the DL are bigger/Stronger/quicker than in college? The LB’s are faster and stronger than in college? Breeland Speakes had a fantastic college tape too.
I think CEH is going to be great for us. Just not between the tackles and goal line.

I'm telling you it's not the back.

[jerryaldini]

At least Patrick is not strugggllingg

https://youtu.be/ynbqA7tS4eg

[St. Patty's Fire]

This is why Mahomes is a transcendent talent

He knows he’s great but he never think he’s good enough. That drive is what separates him from many

I love that Mahomes is unhappy with his play. He had some great moments this year but we all know he has another level. I’m sure he sees what Wilson and Rodgers are doing Right now and feels like he needs to be at that level every night as well

[WhiteWhale]

I love that mahomes is on pace for 4500 yards and 40+ tds and theres an air of disappointment.

I mean, holy unfair expectations batman.

[htismaqe]

You think he’s having success in the NFL running between the tackles? You don’t think the DL are bigger/Stronger/quicker than in college? The LB’s are faster and stronger than in college? Breeland Speakes had a fantastic college tape too.
I think CEH is going to be great for us. Just not between the tackles and goal line.

Breeland Speaks had a solid college tape. He was near the prospect as CEH. Not even close.

And part of being a good inside runner is vision, which doesn't just disappear when you graduate college.

Once the line gets it together and he gets comfortable with them, I'm confident you'll be proven wrong. ;)

[srvy]

Not entirely. The run game/OL is a problem that has nothing to do with Mahomes. Gaining 0 or 1 yard against a light box is not gonna get the job done. They need to be able to punish teams for dropping 8 guys into coverage.

Be careful Dane might see this. The o-line doesn't matter in his book and you will be ridiculed.

[LiveSteam]

Dont worry Patrick. Nobody is right or perfect all the time except ?onger

[dlphg9]

You think he’s having success in the NFL running between the tackles? You don’t think the DL are bigger/Stronger/quicker than in college? The LB’s are faster and stronger than in college? Breeland Speakes had a fantastic college tape too.
I think CEH is going to be great for us. Just not between the tackles and goal line.

This doesn't make any sense at all. If a player excels at something in college, then if he's good in the pros then he's going to continue to excel at the same thing in the NFL. Those speedy and stronger defenders are also going to be playing on outside runs. A lot of people think big strong backs are the only ones that can run it up the middle and smaller quicker guys can only run it to the outside and it's just not the case.

[srvy]

Since Andy has been here the offensive line has taken some time to get going. Part of it is the NFL rules and agreements with the NFLPA and compounded by COVID. So what took 5 to 6 weeks may be longer. BB makes run of the mill QBs look laughable. Good QBs average and great QBs like Patrick can be confused. Pat will learn to take what Bill gives him and then some more. Once Pat figures it out scheme wont matter he is that good. He forced a lot of balls downfield or just plain held the ball to long. He missed CEH 3 times for significant gains trying to push the ball downfield to doubled up receivers out of frustration to make things happen. Thats exactly what Bill wants you to do with his corners and safties Pat will learn.

[BigRedChief]

Breeland Speaks had a solid college tape. He was near the prospect as CEH. Not even close.

And part of being a good inside runner is vision, which doesn't just disappear when you graduate college.

Once the line gets it together and he gets comfortable with them, I'm confident you'll be proven wrong. ;)and I’ll happily eat some crow.:D

[WhiteWhale]

This doesn't make any sense at all. If a player excels at something in college, then if he's good in the pros then he's going to continue to excel at the same thing in the NFL. Those speedy and stronger defenders are also going to be playing on outside runs. A lot of people think big strong backs are the only ones that can run it up the middle and smaller quicker guys can only run it to the outside and it's just not the case.

Yup

KC had this same issue last year and had to rely heavily on outside zone runs.

Nobody is running well between the tackles, that's why we had a turnover on downs vs baltimore. I trust mahomes more on a 3rd and 15 than our inside running game on 3rd and 1. It's not a new problem and I never anticipated clyde could solve it instantly. This offense has missed morse more than people know.

Clyde made some bad reads, but he will get better. Smart guy.

[Dante84]

I just read through the thread and haven't seen one mention of Reiter yet.

He sort of gets his shit pushed in in that 3rd gif in the OP, almost to the point where it looks like he's clogging the lane at worst, or in the way of the cutback at best.

I haven't followed our OL play close enough to notice, but is that a trend?

I remember we were very high on Cesar Ruiz at the tail end of Round 1, before he was picked. Curious to see if that becomes a priority upgrade in the offseason.

Okay, just saw this on the timeline. Here's Reiter/Wylie getting dusted by a single dude in pass rush. Our line couldn't prevent a 2-man rush.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Poor Kelce gets laid out by the end on his route. Still trying to figure out who a two player rush gets that much pressure to force Mahomes to throw it early. Otherwise might be a walk in TD there with another second or two. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JacobsEyeInTheSky?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JacobsEyeInTheSky</a> <a href="https://t.co/bLh2SHKHHN">pic.twitter.com/bLh2SHKHHN</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1314592516948340743?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


I'm concerned that we need to upgrade our C spot.

Especially when you combine this thread's topic with the other topic of Patrick's drifting backwards "problem" that was discussed the past few weeks. The dude is trying to buy time because our Interior O-Line is getting their shit pushed in.

If they're mediocre at pass-blocking, and abysmal at run blocking (specifically Reiter).... wtf are we doing?

Also, Reiter + Wylie at RG....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pretty crazy stats courtesy of <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>:<br><br>This season, Clyde has averaged 6.6 ypc and has EIGHT 10+ yard runs when rushing towards the left side of the OL. His only TD was that direction as well.<br><br>To the right.. 2.7 ypc , ZERO 10+ yard runs<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1314571665326714881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


KO is doing his job over on the Left side...

[DJ's left nut]

Okay, just saw this on the timeline. Here's Reiter/Wylie getting dusted by a single dude in pass rush. Our line couldn't prevent a 2-man rush.


Yeah, that's a real ugly rep.

Reiter got owned (though it was a pretty good move) and Wylie was late to help.

Cannot have that.

[Dante84]

Yeah, that's a real ugly rep.

Reiter got owned (though it was a pretty good move) and Wylie was late to help.

Cannot have that.

Agreed - completely unacceptable when you're protecting the greatest QB of all time before he enters his prime.

This needs to be addressed ASAFP. I trust Veach to get it done, but I hope he gets on it quickly.

This concerns me more than the LB play, now, I think.

[Buehler445]

I'm telling you it's not the back.

Was it you and me that were on the one side of this debate by ourselves?

It’s almost always the line. I would say almost always because Jamaal Charles and Barry Sanders existed. And a bad back can fuck off good holes for sure. But it’s almost always the line.

I love that mahomes is on pace for 4500 yards and 40+ tds and theres an air of disappointment.

I mean, holy unfair expectations batman.

Not that I have any right to even speculate on Mahomes headspace. But I’d bet money he’s not looking at the aggregate he’s thinking I missed that read, biffed that throw, etc.

[htismaqe]

The right side of the line just isn't very good right now. :(

[tyecopeland]

Yeah, we know.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgifimage.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2Fbeating-dead-horse-gif-2.gif&f=1&nofb=1

We'll never win a super bowl without kareem.

I can't wait until Clark starts putting winning ahead of only wanting to employ mentally stable people.

[tyecopeland]

I'm concerned that we need to upgrade our C spot.

Especially when you combine this thread's topic with the other topic of Patrick's drifting backwards "problem" that was discussed the past few weeks. The dude is trying to buy time because our Interior O-Line is getting their shit pushed in.

If they're mediocre at pass-blocking, and abysmal at run blocking (specifically Reiter).... wtf are we doing?

Also, Reiter + Wylie at RG....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pretty crazy stats courtesy of <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>:<br><br>This season, Clyde has averaged 6.6 ypc and has EIGHT 10+ yard runs when rushing towards the left side of the OL. His only TD was that direction as well.<br><br>To the right.. 2.7 ypc , ZERO 10+ yard runs<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1314571665326714881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


KO is doing his job over on the Left side...

No. No offensive lineman can possibly improve the situation. We just need MORE, BETTER RBs.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Fisher>Schwartz. Don’t @ me. We havnt lost since 2018 when Fisher has started.

[DJ's left nut]

Agreed - completely unacceptable when you're protecting the greatest QB of all time before he enters his prime.

This needs to be addressed ASAFP. I trust Veach to get it done, but I hope he gets on it quickly.

This concerns me more than the LB play, now, I think.

The thing is - Reiter is generally a high quality pass blocker. I don't worry about seeing that stuff from him with any regularity. And Wylie's a good athlete and responsible lineman - I don't really worry about him botching a read like that often either.

I wonder if Wylie didn't just get lazy because he figured Reiter had it pretty easily. Then Reiter got de-pantsed so Wylie failed to react. I also think there's a good chance that Wylie was expecting a delayed rush so he was trying to stay sound to avoid committing to help too early. Reiter just got beat so badly and so quickly that Wylie was a step slow.

Again - just a really bad rep but not the kind of issue I actually expect to see from those 2. They aren't perfect players by any stretch of the imagination but that specific play is kinda in their respective wheelhouses and they just dicked it up.

[RealSNR]

Fisher>Schwartz. Don’t @ me. We havnt lost since 2018 when Fisher has started.

Fisher is decent, but don't get ahead of yourself. This is an overmagnified issue because his backup gave us some of the worst OL play we've seen in a Chiefs uniform since Mike ****ing McGlynn.

Put Cam Erving in for Schwartz and we'd be saying the same thing.

[Valiant]

Other than throwing into triple coverage and the couple ducks he did fine.

My complaint is how they rush ceh. He needs to be at full speed when he gets the ball. He usually is a one cut runner. Anymore than that and he becomes easier to tackle. Mainly needs to run outside. Quit the draws up the middle that everyone seems to know when are coming.
His hands are phenomenal for a run. Split him out wide for a quick dump off.

I also wonder if they should reverse the reads sometimes. Start with hardman for the slant.

[St. Patty's Fire]

Fisher>Schwartz. Don’t @ me. We havnt lost since 2018 when Fisher has started.

Schwartz has worried me a bit this season but I’m far from ready to say that

Next draft needs to be five o lineman

[DJ's left nut]

Other than throwing into triple coverage and the couple ducks he did fine.

My complaint is how they rush ceh. He needs to be at full speed when he gets the ball. He usually is a one cut runner. Anymore than that and he becomes easier to tackle. Mainly needs to run outside. Quit the draws up the middle that everyone seems to know when are coming.
His hands are phenomenal for a run. Split him out wide for a quick dump off.

I also wonder if they should reverse the reads sometimes. Start with hardman for the slant.

I absolutely, 100% disagree with this.

Williams was a one-cut runner. What makes CEH so deadly in this system is precisely his ability to set up, pick and pop as his gaps develop. His patience is a massive asset and very possibly what got him selected over someone like Taylor, who's far more of a 1-cut runner than Williams is.

Again - people know the draws up the middle are coming because we're telegraphing them. We're killing into those plays and defenses are keying on it. They know a kill call is likely a middle run to attack a light box.

They need to vary their tendencies a little bit (including killing into a pass or even a kill call that doesn't actually kill the play), but they definitely don't want to scrap the interior run game. Once they get teams honest again, they can use it to similar effect to how they used it against the Texans.

CEH can be a damn effective runner between the tackles and just switching to some kind of zone-read scheme is to waste his greatest assets - his lateral agility, patience and vision/instincts in setting up a hole.

[DaneMcCloud]

Schwartz has worried me a bit this season but I’m far from ready to say that

The last time Schwartz played this poorly was a few years back, when he was buttraped on national TV by Shaq Barrett and Von Miller.

That said, it was later revealed that he was playing through injury, which might be the case this year as well.