Lets have a conversation about Reid's play calling

[BigRedChief]

It was so predictable that the announcers were calling it out last game? or the game before?
2nd down and a draw play up the middle with Kelce on the sidelines predictable etc.

I don't know if its Andy not wanting to put his best plays on film like he did with the Ravens or what is the deal. He's an excellent play caller. Going to the HOF. So maybe you football tech nerds can explain how a HOF play caller gets predictable?

The conservative play calling has always been an issue with Andy his whole career when we have a lead or he thinks we are going to win. I don't think that was the case today. I'm not a deep dive into the X's and O's fan. So what is it?

His good side got us a Super Bowl. It doesn't mean hes a flawed or bad coach. Just that he has tendencies just like every coach that has ever lived. 2nd best coach in the game. Hope he stays forever. But, against the Bills, he needs to change up the play calling. Or not. Straighten me out.

[Hammock Parties]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.

[JakeF]

I've tried that already this year after the Chargers game. People don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Andy's playcalling. They don't think there is a problem with clock management either, even though he wasted a timeout today in the 3rd that we really needed in the 4th.

Good luck bud.

How's your military donation drives doing this year?

[BigRedChief]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.Not complaining about the offense in general. We have Mahomes, thats good enough to go to the Super Bowl. And I agree 32 points should be enough to win the game.

[BWillie]

If anything its trying to run too many intermediate and deep routes.

We need to take shots, but when the gameplan is put everyone into coverage you need more dumpoffs and Alex Smith it sometimes.

[Pablo]

I've tried that already this year after the Chargers game. People don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Andy's playcalling. They don't think there is a problem with clock management either, even though he wasted a timeout today in the 3rd that we really needed in the 4th.

Good luck bud.

How's your military donation drives doing this year?

People do think you're a faggot and that you should kill yourself, though.

[MMXcalibur]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.

I would argue that the offensive line looked like a gaggle of monkeys trying to fuck a doorknob play after play.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.That's just not true. We didn't score 32 points because of the play calling, we scored 32 points in spite of the play calling.

I don't understand where any play with shallow crosses went. Reid and EB need to adapt when the other team is dropping so many deep, because calling plays where Mahomes has to hold the ball for 5 seconds isn't helping the offense, and was also having an impact on our defense today as well, because we needed to keep the offense on the field longer.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[KC_Connection]

They would have scored 42 points in the 1st half today if the refs didn’t fuck us. I’m not worried about that.

[Chief Roundup]

Lets just bitch about every damn thing.

[RINGLEADER]

Only complaint is the drops. Guys like Kizer can’t drop 3rd and long passes that kill drives.

Other than that and the DBs being ass today there’s not much that’s changed. Chiefs will still win the division comfortably.

[Megatron96]

Overall, there was nothing wrong with Andy's play-calling. Where does this silly crap come from?

The issue, on both sides of the ball, was execution, not the play-calls themselves. Both units shot themselves in the foot with penalties, and just simply bad execution. Losing KO and Sammy didn't help things either.

[BigRedChief]

I've tried that already this year after the Chargers game. People don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Andy's playcalling. They don't think there is a problem with clock management either, even though he wasted a timeout today in the 3rd that we really needed in the 4th.

Good luck bud.

How's your military donation drives doing this year?Contributions down this year due to covid, job loss etc. or people don't think that there are not still brave soldiers putting themselves in harms way to protect us and our interests worldwide. Haven't asked for money on here in awhile. Put together a ChiefsPlanet care package.

[493rd]

We got 32 in what most would call garbage time. Not sure what game you guys watched, but we got pushed around in the trenches on both sides of the ball. I don’t give a shit about the refs; you have to assume they’ll be bad and miss some calls nowadays. Even Mahomes can’t consistently overcome a bad offensive line and a shitty defense. We’ve lived this before and hopefully it gets fixed.

[Hammock Parties]

Here we go again. LMAO

We're so used to the offense being invincible we just take it for granted, and act like something is seriously wrong when it isn't.

The only issue this team had today was those deep balls on defense.

[siberian khatru]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.

Bullshit. You know the vast majority of that was in the first half. What happened in the second half, when the game was tied and we had chances to seize control?

After stopping the Raiders twice to start the second half, exactly what we needed, the offense ran a total of 8 plays for 25 yards.

Then when we fell behind by 7, we ran 4 for minus-3.

This was an across-the-board failure.

[gold_and_red]

I posted this in another thread, Andy's offenses appear very streaky in a game, too hot or too cold. When the defense is not complementing enough or Mahomes can't make enough hero plays it leads to familiar losses like today.
He views the running game as a passing extension but it also means getting more than two yards a carry as the game goes on. There are more playcalling options on 3rd and 2 than on 3rd and 8+.
Mahomes should also take the shorter gain than going for home runs. Belichick gambled on it and almost won last week. Is this a case of Reid letting Mahomes' personality show a little too much?

[mr. tegu]

I don’t know if play calling is what’s to blame, but I think it’s pretty clear that right now there is very little offense, big plays especially, being produced in rhythm within the confines of the design of the offense. It’s almost exclusively occurring when Mahomes has to make something happen scrambling around as opposed to standing in the pocket and delivering the ball.

[tonyetony]

His first down calls were predictable and didn't help the rookie at all. Must throw to open the run.

[BigRedChief]

Overall, there was nothing wrong with Andy's play-calling. Where does this silly crap come from?Its not silly. Just because its not the reason we lost the game doesn't mean we cant have a discussion about something concerning our team.


I told you in the opening post. The announcers brought it up. Everyone heard it so your either listening to the radio feed or not paying attention.

[Mecca]

The issues are the Raiders figured out that if you attack Ben Niemann you move the ball that and Ward can't handle speed receivers, they attacked both of them over and over.

[DRM08]

If the playcalling against Buffalo looks a lot more creative (as it did against Baltimore), then it sure would seem Andy has been holding back in some of these games.

[Hammock Parties]

Bullshit. You know the vast majority of that was in the first half. What happened in the second half, when the game was tied and we had chances to seize control?


That's NFL football. You're not gonna score on every possession.

Was the offense perfect? No.

It needed to be to make up for the Career Day Defense rerun, apparently.

And that's a failure? OK, sure. LMAO

There are some issues on offense, but overall you're not talking about something we need to be hand-wringing about right now with Andy and Patrick on our side.

Defensively what happened with the deep passing is a glaring issue that has to be resolved.

But no threads about that...OK.

[EPodolak]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.

That's about it, along with lack of pressure on Carr.

Only knuckleheads look past division opponents.

[Red Dawg]

Andy needs to figure out how to beat teams dropping 7-8 into coverage. Nobody respects our ground attack and will do this over and over again.

[emaw1979]

EB’s playcalling you mean.

[GayFrogs]

The only issue this team had today was those deep balls on defense.

Is that why they had 22 yards of offense in the 2nd half til almost the end of the game? I think their blocking was horrible, Mahomes had to resemble his 2018 self rolling out every other play just to move the ball.

[GayFrogs]

Andy needs to figure out how to beat teams dropping 7-8 into coverage. Nobody respects our ground attack and will do this over and over again.

The last two teams getting home while having that many in coverage is alarming.

[Hammock Parties]

Run back the tape.

We gave up 17 points because of three deep balls.

You can't do that and expect to win unless your offense is performing at historically elite levels.

32 points and 413 yards = MAJOR PROBLEMS ON OFFENSE!!!!!

No, just no.

[Megatron96]

His first down calls were predictable and didn't help the rookie at all. Must throw to open the run.

Oh, you mean like for the very first 1st down call, which was a run for 8 yards?

Or the second 1st down call, which was the 58-yard bomb to Hill for a TD that was incorrectly called back for a hold?

Or the third first down call, which was an INC pass to CEH?

Or the fourth 1st down call, which was CEH run for 6 yards?

Or the fifth 1st down call, which was a Hill rush for 6 yards?

Or 6th 1st down call, which was the pass to CEH that Patrick just flat missed?

Or the next three 1st down calls, which were all passes?

Sounds really predictable to me . . .:thumb:

[lcarus]

Eh, we scored 50 points today (32 in Cleteville) so I'm not too concerned about the plays they called. Yeah there's always some that are kinda dumb but I give our guys the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

[BigRedChief]

If the playcalling against Buffalo looks a lot more creative (as it did against Baltimore), then it sure would seem Andy has been holding back in some of these games.And thats a legitimate approach.

You should be able to beat this team without your best plays. So you hold them back to use against tougher opponents. If thats his mindset and plan, I'm okay with that.

[Hammock Parties]

Andy needs to figure out how to beat teams dropping 7-8 into coverage. Nobody respects our ground attack and will do this over and over again.

We just spent an entire season - culminating in a SB - dealing with this issue.

It's not an issue.

You get roasted on three deep balls in one game you're gonna lose unless your QB is going Super Saiyan.

[BigRedChief]

32 points and 413 yards = MAJOR PROBLEMS ON OFFENSE!!!!!

No, just no.I'm not saying its why we lost or the offense is even bad. Already said 32 points should win you every NFL game.


Just wondered from the football nerds why the predictable play calling.

[Mahomes_Is_God]

Oh here we go. Back to that "Andy Reid is a bad football coach" bullshit. Our defence was ass, but the refs are what really held us back.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm not saying its why we lost or the offense is even bad. Already said 32 points should win you every NFL game.

Just wondered from the football nerds why the predictable play calling.

I think Andy called plays that scored 32 points.

Were they predictable? Maybe. Who gives a shit?

THEY SCORED 32 POINTS.

[Megatron96]

Its not silly. Just because its not the reason we lost the game doesn't mean we cant have a discussion about something concerning our team.


I told you in the opening post. The announcers brought it up. Everyone heard it so your either listening to the radio feed or not paying attention.

Allllrightythen, have at it, I guess.

I'll have another look at the coaches film later, but just referencing the play-by-play, I'm not seeing an obvious issue with the play-calling. Execution, on the other hand . . .

[Beef Supreme]

Let's not. We had 32 points and 413 yards.

The only issue today was the back end getting roasted on D.

We also seem to end up in 3rd and long an awful lot and then count on Mahomes to make some magic when the play breaks down.

[Hammock Parties]

OL is trending downwards.

If you want to blame Andy for something, this is it. They haven't put enough resources towards the interior OL.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkFJq4CXkAAPzq8?format=png&name=large

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm not going to blame offensive playcalling in the long list of problems we had today. A different spin is that our personnel has some issues and our coaches need to figure out how to work around them. Namely, the red zone and our interior OL. But that is a player problem first. I trust in Andy to figure that out.

I'd say the same of veach. He built one hell of a roster. But we might need him to work some magic to see if we can band aid a few of these problems.

[mr. tegu]

I think Andy called plays that scored 32 points.

Were they predictable? Maybe. Who gives a shit?

THEY SCORED 32 POINTS.


The Raiders defense sucks. 32 points should be our floor against them after just three quarters.

[Kman34]

1st down penalties.. Seems like we were in 1st and 20 all game.. Andys fine.. Surprised the "Andys a terrible football coach " thread hasn't shown up yet..

Stay Fucking Calm..

[Hammock Parties]

The Raiders defense sucks. 32 points should be our floor against them after just three quarters.

I'm glad you brought that up.

Because that 32 points was a SEASON HIGH scored against that shitty defense.

Sorry that wasn't good enough for your imaginary standards.

[DRM08]

The Raiders defense sucks. 32 points should be our floor against them after just three quarters.

Refs took 18 off the board for KC, so there is that.

[WhiteWhale]

I'm glad you brought that up.

Because that 32 points was a SEASON HIGH scored against that shitty defense.

Sorry that wasn't good enough for your imaginary standards.

Easily could have been 40+

Hill got butt****ed on a bullshit hold and a PI non call.

Defense, ref bullshit, offense. In that order of blame.

On to buffalo. Hope this was a wakeup call.

[Dartgod]

Play calling? No

Execution? Hell, yes.

[old_geezer]

We had 2 touchdowns called back by penalties. I'm not saying they weren't legitimate penalties, just that we would have scored 43 points if not for those penalties. I don't think play calling was the problem today.

[chiefzilla1501]

That being said, we have got to figure out something for the red zone because it feels like the only way to get in is gadgetry.

Veach can maybe find some bandaids at RB or OL. I'm wondering if we might need some TE help. What happened to Ricky seals Jones? Because we're getting nothing out of our other TEs and I wouldn't mind some extra short targets.

[JakeF]

That's about it, along with lack of pressure on Carr.

Only knuckleheads look past division opponents.Constant pass pressure on Mahomes and very little on Carr. Raiders only needing 4 Dlineman to get pressure and to stop much of the run. The Chiefs needing to give all sorts of help to our Dline to just maintain things.

Terrible. We got our ass kicked in the trenches.

[mr. tegu]

I'm glad you brought that up.

Because that 32 points was a SEASON HIGH scored against that shitty defense.

Sorry that wasn't good enough for your imaginary standards.


Imaginary standards? If you think think they played to their standard I’m not sure what game you watched.

[DRM08]

We had 2 touchdowns called back by penalties. I'm not saying they weren't legitimate penalties, just that we would have scored 43 points if not for those penalties. I don't think play calling was the problem today.

The bigger one was the NON-call by the refs. Blatant pass interference by the Raiders on Tyreek Hill at the 5 yard line. This led to a Chiefs punt, when at minmum it should have led to 3 points for KC and probably 7 points.

[kstater]

The conversation is:. Sometimes teams outplay you. The Raiders did that. They broke up a ton of passes today when it mattered. Not every game is gonna be a 2+ score win. Tip your hat and move on. Rather do it now then get the stress of a perfect season going.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[Hammock Parties]

I keep finding bad stats that have nothing to do with playcalling.

The Chiefs gave up 260 yards on FIVE PLAYS.

That led to TWENTY FOUR POINTS for the Raiders.

LMAO

Just clean up the career day defense shit.

[BWillie]

I'm glad you brought that up.

Because that 32 points was a SEASON HIGH scored against that shitty defense.

Sorry that wasn't good enough for your imaginary standards.

We are likely going to be by the stats anyway, a fringe Top 10 offense once the stats are updated. This team is better than that. They seem to play down to their opponent.

Colts last year. Chargers always. Faiders.

Blow our Ravens. Put up 51 in the playoffs.

[Hammock Parties]

Imaginary standards? If you think think they played to their standard I’m not sure what game you watched.

I mean they only averaged 28 PPG last year, but 32 is pretty good...

[mr. tegu]

I mean they only averaged 28 PPG last year, but 32 is pretty good...


Irrelevant. In this game they needed to be better, regardless of penalties. 8 points in the second half is absolutely not good enough. We will almost assuredly lose next week and in many other weeks if we go into the half tied and only score once more.

[stevieray]

meh.

what was it? 13 straight wins? 6 straight against the fade?

[HonestChieffan]

BRC can shove it.

Suck day

typical Chiefs fan bullshit by BRC

[BigRedChief]

BRC can shove it.

Suck day

typical Chiefs fan bullshit by BRCKeep your DC opinions out of the lounge

[Dartgod]

Keep your DC opinions out of the lounge

There was nothing remotely political about that post. Don't start that shit here.

[Hammock Parties]

Irrelevant. In this game they needed to be better, regardless of penalties. 8 points in the second half is absolutely not good enough. We will almost assuredly lose next week and in many other weeks if we go into the half tied and only score once more.

What do you think is more realistically sustainable?

Scoring 40 every week? Or moderating our career day defense to not allow an average of 50 yards on 5 plays out of 66?

[BigRedChief]

There was nothing remotely political about that post. Don't start that shit here.
Ahhh BS. He has no opinion of me, my football opinions at all. Does he even talk football on here? That post was just DC hate based on my political opinions in DC.

[Dartgod]

Ahhh BS. He has no opinion of me, my football opinions at all. Does he even talk football on here? That post was just DC hate based on my political opinions in DC.

And you're the one who turned it political. 99% of the users here don't know about or give one **** about your DC feud.

[Coochie liquor]

That's about it, along with lack of pressure on Carr.

Only knuckleheads look past division opponents.

Or the inability to stop death by 1000 papercuts. Today’s loss was on Spags, and the defense. Zero pressure from Clark, Jones, or Taco. Their O line dominated our guys, Our secondary was getting torched (but also Ruggs is gonna be a pain in the ass for a while). Seems like they knocked us out of rhythm, much like the Sharters and the Pats did. Lots of shit to clean up. Hope Sammy can go Monday, but didn’t look great.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You realize they score 50 without Corrupt Clete calling the game right??

[Megatron96]

You realize they score 50 without Corrupt Clete calling the game right??

Well, if Andy hadn't called the "let's have KO not hold, but slip the ref a $50 so he calls a hold as Pat hits Hill for a TD" play, or the "let's call the play where Kelce commits OPI, but it's really kinda not OPI," play, then we'd have won.

Damn Andy for calling those plays. Why would he draw up a play where our guys commit penalties?

Oh, wait . . .

[PunkinDrublic]

The defense gave up 40 fucking points at home and this is what you choose to focus on. GTFOH.

[BigRedChief]

You realize they score 50 without Corrupt Clete calling the game right??

Who’s corrupt Clete?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Who’s corrupt Clete?

The garbage official that has a BLATANT history of giving bogus calls to shit teams like this Raider squad. His history is criminal in allowing big underdogs either cover or win.

[Chief Roundup]

Not sure where to get the "stats" from but I would be curious to see about yards to go per play.
It seems that we are always in a long type situation whether that is 2cd or 3rd. It may be that those downs and distances just reign in memory but it sure seems that we are all to often in a 6+ yards situation. No that is not awful for 2cd or anything but it seems that we are all to often needing "Miracle" Mahomes to pull out another amazing play. Some of that nickname is how amazingly good he actually is at this game and his position. Another reason is because we are often in a position that most other QBs do not get their team out of said trouble or situation.
Now whether that is play calling, execution, etc. I am not sure.
I would love to see the data as to what our average down and distance is though.

[BigRedChief]

The garbage official that has a BLATANT history of giving bogus calls to shit teams like this Raider squad. His history is criminal in allowing big underdogs either cover or win.
That dude was horrible. Probably more incompetentance than corruption though.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

That dude was horrible. Probably more incompetentance than corruption though.

No he's corrupt as fuck. Remember the Monday nighter versus the Rams?

[Mecca]

That dude was horrible. Probably more incompetentance than corruption though.

Actually not true, he has a long history of underdogs winning his games, there's purpose with his crew.

[BigRedChief]

No he's corrupt as ****. Remember the Monday nighter versus the Rams?

That was the same ref?:hmmm:

[mr. tegu]

What do you think is more realistically sustainable?

Scoring 40 every week? Or moderating our career day defense to not allow an average of 50 yards on 5 plays out of 66?


This is the first game we have had to score over 30, yet alone 40. They had chances to score more in the second half and they didn’t. Needed to be better is all I have to really say about it.

[Megatron96]

Not sure where to get the "stats" from but I would be curious to see about yards to go per play.
It seems that we are always in a long type situation whether that is 2cd or 3rd. It may be that those downs and distances just reign in memory but it sure seems that we are all to often in a 6+ yards situation. No that is not awful for 2cd or anything but it seems that we are all to often needing "Miracle" Mahomes to pull out another amazing play. Some of that nickname is how amazingly good he actually is at this game and his position. Another reason is because we are often in a position that most other QBs do not get their team out of said trouble or situation.
Now whether that is play calling, execution, etc. I am not sure.
I would love to see the data as to what our average down and distance is though.

Penalties. Which goes directly to execution.

[Chief Roundup]

That was the same ref?:hmmm:

I thought that was Carl Cheffers who called the Chargers vs Chiefs game.

[HonestChieffan]

And you're the one who turned it political. 99% of the users here don't know about or give one **** about your DC feud.

So true....the play calling was not the issue, it was execution from start to finish. To make this loss a failure by Andy is simply the view of an uneducated fanboy.

[HonestChieffan]

Penalties. Which goes directly to execution.

indeed

[Mahomes_Is_God]

Your butt ain't foolin me. If I had to, I would bring back those glorious tits. It was the greatest KC avatar. You're a fool and a liar

[Chief Roundup]

I thought that was Carl Cheffers who called the Chargers vs Chiefs game.

No it was Clete Blackmon.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/officials/BlakCl0r.htm

[htismaqe]

Penalties. Which goes directly to execution.

Yep.

[gold_and_red]

Not sure where to get the "stats" from but I would be curious to see about yards to go per play.
It seems that we are always in a long type situation whether that is 2cd or 3rd. It may be that those downs and distances just reign in memory but it sure seems that we are all to often in a 6+ yards situation. No that is not awful for 2cd or anything but it seems that we are all to often needing "Miracle" Mahomes to pull out another amazing play. Some of that nickname is how amazingly good he actually is at this game and his position. Another reason is because we are often in a position that most other QBs do not get their team out of said trouble or situation.
Now whether that is play calling, execution, etc. I am not sure.
I would love to see the data as to what our average down and distance is though.

This is exactly where I am at. Getting to 2nd and 2, 3rd and 1 seems to be a struggle. Even then I don’t see how this OL lines up and moves the DL for a grinding first down. Expecting another deep run just because magical Mahomes did some amazing and frankly improbable things in last year’s playoffs is just not realistic imho. We just need to hope that the OL picks it up.

[Mecca]

That was the same ref?:hmmm:

Games that Clete Blakeman has reffed involving the Chiefs...

Chiefs vs Rams MNF 2018 chiefs loss
Chiefs vs Patriots AFC title game chiefs loss
Chiefs vs Raiders today chiefs loss

[Chief Roundup]

Penalties. Which goes directly to execution.

Execution with the talent we have means it is still on the coaching staff. IMO which still puts this on Reid. He might have to be a little less of a "players coach" for a week to 2 to get the guys focused and performing to their abilities.

[Titty Meat]

His play calling is great

[ModSocks]

There's no question the Chiefs are struggling with this 3-man rush thing though.

I noticed that the raiders were rushing 3 and leaving a spy on Mahomes. It's what NE did as well.

[Chief Roundup]

Games that Clete Blakeman has reffed involving the Chiefs...

Chiefs vs Rams MNF 2018 chiefs loss
Chiefs vs Patriots AFC title game chiefs loss
Chiefs vs Raiders today chiefs loss

He was also our week 1 ref against the Texans.

[htismaqe]

There's no question the Chiefs are struggling with this 3-man rush thing though.

I noticed that the raiders were rushing 3 and leaving a spy on Mahomes. It's what NE did as well.

Guys gotta get open. And they have to run the ball.

[gold_and_red]

Execution with the talent we have means it is still on the coaching staff. IMO which still puts this on Reid. He might have to be a little less of a "players coach" for a week to 2 to get the guys focused and performing to their abilities.

Reid is in his 60s and has been HCing for 21 years. He is not going to suddenly change his tendencies. We just have to hope that Mahomes is so otherworldly that Chiefs continue to win games despite obvious flaws.

[Mecca]

He was also our week 1 ref against the Texans.

His crew also calls a crapton of penalties and now for 5 years has more road winners than home winners...he has some strange patterns.

[Megatron96]

Execution with the talent we have means it is still on the coaching staff. IMO which still puts this on Reid. He might have to be a little less of a "players coach" for a week to 2 to get the guys focused and performing to their abilities.

:facepalm:

Offs. Let's just never blame a few players I guess, even though they're the ones that actually are on the field, actually committing the mental errors and penalties. Or that the refs made a half-dozen egregiously bad calls against the Chiefs, putting them well behind on down-and-distance several drives.

But yeah, it's Andy's fault. Makes sense.

[Chief Roundup]

Reid is in his 60s and has been HCing for 21 years. He is not going to suddenly change his tendencies. We just have to hope that Mahomes is so otherworldly that Chiefs continue to win games despite obvious flaws.

He doesn't have to "change' he just has to get on the guys for a week or 2 about their execution.

[Chief Roundup]

:facepalm:

Offs. Let's just never blame a few players I guess, even though they're the ones that actually are on the field, actually committing the mental errors and penalties. Or that the refs made a half-dozen egregiously bad calls against the Chiefs, putting them well behind on down-and-distance several drives.

But yeah, it's Andy's fault. Makes sense.

I guess you have not noticed that we are always behind on down and distance. That is not a one game situation of committing mental errors or seeming unprepared. That is a problem we see all too often. How many games did we have to come back from? How many times has Mahomes had to pull a magic rabbit out of his helmet to get a win?
There is a pattern.

[Hammock Parties]

There's no question the Chiefs are struggling with this 3-man rush thing though.

I noticed that the raiders were rushing 3 and leaving a spy on Mahomes. It's what NE did as well.

Until we figure out this dastardly defensive scheme, we may have to live with 32 points per game.

[chiefzilla1501]

He doesn't have to "change' he just has to get on the guys for a week or 2 about their execution.

Yup, also our problems have nothing to do with Reid's tendencies. It has to do with adjustments. Defenses found a new way to attack us, we have some talent gaps, it's up to Reid and staff to figure out how to ADJUST. But I don't blame reid if he hasn't figured that out just yet. Because we all know he and Mahomes will. They always do.

[ModSocks]

Until we figure out this dastardly defensive scheme, we may have to live with 32 points per game.

You mean 8 points in a half, consecutive 3 and outs in the 2nd half Mahomes barely completing 50% of his passes.

The big boys are talking about how to fire on 8 cylinders.

You're acting like 6 cylinders is good enough.

[gold_and_red]

Yup, also our problems have nothing to do with Reid's tendencies. It has to do with adjustments. Defenses found a new way to attack us, we have some talent gaps, it's up to Reid and staff to figure out how to ADJUST. But I don't blame reid if he hasn't figured that out just yet. Because we all know he and Mahomes will. They always do.

Not sure of the adjustments part. Too many games that Mahomes has to will the team going back all the way to last season’s playoffs. The team is too streaky within a game. The offense while great on concepts and formations can’t get what is required unless Mahomes is outside the pocket throwing across his body or making some wow plays.

[Hammock Parties]

You're acting like 6 cylinders is good enough.

It was for 13 games.

You think the Chiefs were running full steam ahead in these games?

Chiefs 24, Chargers 17
Chiefs 40, Raiders 9
Chiefs 23, Patriots 16
Chiefs 23, Broncos 3
Chiefs 26, Bears 3
Chiefs 31, Chargers 21

Or hell, even the Super Bowl?

How many of those games you think the Chiefs win with the defense allowing five nuclear bombs?

Not many.

Shit, the last time the Chiefs lost a game they had 500 yards of offense and morons on here were pulling the same act.

Andy Reid threads are the fucking worst.

[FloridaMan88]

Andy needs to draw up some high % plays to get the ball to Tyreek/Mecole when the offense is struggling.

Those two players had one target combined in the second half and it wasn’t until the Chiefs were down double digits in the 4th quarter.

[Chief Roundup]

It was for 13 games.

You think the Chiefs were running full steam ahead in these games?

Chiefs 24, Chargers 17
Chiefs 40, Raiders 9
Chiefs 23, Patriots 16
Chiefs 23, Broncos 3
Chiefs 26, Bears 3
Chiefs 31, Chargers 21

Or hell, even the Super Bowl?

How many of those games you think the Chiefs win with the defense allowing five nuclear bombs?

Not many.

Shit, the last time the Chiefs lost a game they had 500 yards of offense and morons on here were pulling the same act.

Andy Reid threads are the fucking worst.

Someone Q up the NFL voting commercial.

[Megatron96]

I guess you have not noticed that we are always behind on down and distance. That is not a one game situation of committing mental errors or seeming unprepared. That is a problem we see all too often. How many games did we have to come back from? How many times has Mahomes had to pull a magic rabbit out of his helmet to get a win?
There is a pattern.

Stop.

We aren't "always behind on down-and-distance;" not anymore than most teams anyway. There's no such thing as perfect play from start to finish.


"We" came back from a deficit 6 times. Lost two. So 6 out of 8 times is 75% success rate. Probably every franchise in the league would take that stat.

And it's not a magic rabbit; it's a magic hat. The rabbit's just a rabbit.

[Hammock Parties]

Andy needs to draw up some high % plays to get the ball to Tyreek/Mecole when the offense is struggling.

Those two players had one target combined in the second half and it wasn’t until the Chiefs were down double digits in the 4th quarter.

Let's go back to the Alex Smith bubble screen offense!!! LMAO

[Chief Roundup]

Stop.

We aren't "always behind on down-and-distance;" not anymore than most teams anyway. There's no such thing as perfect play from start to finish.


"We" came back from a deficit 6 times. Lost two. So 6 out of 8 times is 75% success rate. Probably every franchise in the league would take that stat.

And it's not a magic rabbit; it's a magic hat. The rabbit's just a rabbit.

Wrong it is pull a rabbit out of the hat. Yet he wears a helmet. This is all done via Magic and they call him Patrick "Magic" Mahomes.

[Chief Roundup]

Stop.

We aren't "always behind on down-and-distance;" not anymore than most teams anyway. There's no such thing as perfect play from start to finish.


"We" came back from a deficit 6 times. Lost two. So 6 out of 8 times is 75% success rate. Probably every franchise in the league would take that stat.

And it's not a magic rabbit; it's a magic hat. The rabbit's just a rabbit.

I wish I knew where to find those stats. I have a feeling that you are wrong. We have become accustom to Magic Mahomes happening.

[Megatron96]

I wish I knew where to find those stats. I have a feeling that you are wrong. We have become accustom to Magic Mahomes happening.

Someone posted an article last season about the offense's efficiency, and the Chiefs weren't drastically out of line with the league concerning 2nd- or 3rd-and-long snaps.

I could go on a bit here, but I have to take care of something now. BBL.

[scho63]

Lets just bitch about every damn thing.

That's what it looks like to me! ROFL

[Chief Roundup]

Someone posted an article last season about the offense's efficiency, and the Chiefs weren't drastically out of line with the league concerning 2nd- or 3rd-and-long snaps.

I could go on a bit here, but I have to take care of something now. BBL.

Last season.....We are all talking about this season.

[Pitt Gorilla]

We got 32 in what most would call garbage time. Not sure what game you guys watched, but we got pushed around in the trenches on both sides of the ball. I don’t give a shit about the refs; you have to assume they’ll be bad and miss some calls nowadays. Even Mahomes can’t consistently overcome a bad offensive line and a shitty defense. We’ve lived this before and hopefully it gets fixed.
There are bad takes, then there's this.

[Pitt Gorilla]

It was for 13 games.

You think the Chiefs were running full steam ahead in these games?

Chiefs 24, Chargers 17
Chiefs 40, Raiders 9
Chiefs 23, Patriots 16
Chiefs 23, Broncos 3
Chiefs 26, Bears 3
Chiefs 31, Chargers 21

Or hell, even the Super Bowl?

How many of those games you think the Chiefs win with the defense allowing five nuclear bombs?

Not many.

Shit, the last time the Chiefs lost a game they had 500 yards of offense and morons on here were pulling the same act.

Andy Reid threads are the ****ing worst.
Take away the questionable calls that pulled TDs off the board and keep Sorenson off the field, and we win this one in a laugher.

The problem, though, was clearly play-calling.

[Megatron96]

Last season.....We are all talking about this season.

It's the same offense from 2019. The same exact players, minus LDT/D. Williams from 2019. The same play-caller. The same HC.

Why wouldn't we refer to last season's stats/data if al the above is true?

It is true, isn't it? Did the team make some huge change yesterday while I was out? Or are we still talking about the same team from last year?

[Chief Roundup]

It's the same offense from 2019. The same exact players, minus LDT/D. Williams from 2019. The same play-caller. The same HC.

Why wouldn't we refer to last season's stats/data if al the above is true?

It is true, isn't it? Did the team make some huge change yesterday while I was out? Or are we still talking about the same team from last year?

Results and context.

[FloridaMan88]

Let's go back to the Alex Smith bubble screen offense!!! LMAO

Opposing defenses weren’t dropping 8 into coverage against Alex Smith.

No one is saying the Chiefs should exclusively rely on bubble screens/short passes, but when the offense is struggling it is a decent change of pace option.

[Megatron96]

Results and context.

Really. So it makes sense to you to value the results of the small sampling of 5 games vs. the data pool of a full season plus playoffs.

19 games vs. 5.

Right, sure, that makes sense.

[Red Dawg]

Defenses weren't dropping 8 when we could run the ball. Ground game seems dead.

[Beef Supreme]

This is a football discussion forum. The Chiefs looked like dogshit in all phases today, against the Raiders of all teams, and some people are asking wtf is going on. It might be some uninspired playcalling, it might be some uninspired players, it might be a lot of things.

The sky isn't falling and I don't think anybody is saying it is. But it sure is fucking annoying when people want to discuss things that pretty fucking obviously seem to be issues this team is gonna need to figure out, and they are constantly being shouted down by a group of posters who think that any discussion about, you know, FOOTBALL, is being a whiney crying bitch.

The Chiefs are gonna be fine, but they sure didn't look it today. Why can't people discuss that without some of your fucking heads exploding?

[Shields68]

Defenses weren't dropping 8 when we could run the ball. Ground game seems dead.

This is what has surprised me this game. Everyone has run on the Raiders. They even are dropping more people in coverage against us.

[Hammock Parties]

Opposing defenses weren’t dropping 8 into coverage against Alex Smith.

No one is saying the Chiefs should exclusively rely on bubble screens/short passes, but when the offense is struggling it is a decent change of pace option.

Bubble screens work when the opponent is packing the box, not when they are dropping eight guys.

The Chiefs need to block better and catch better. And not get buttfucked by their own secondary and the refs. Period.

[htismaqe]

Opposing defenses weren’t dropping 8 into coverage against Alex Smith.

No one is saying the Chiefs should exclusively rely on bubble screens/short passes, but when the offense is struggling it is a decent change of pace option.

Bubble screens rely on numbers on the edge. When the opposing defense has 8 DB's on the field, you don't have the numbers advantage. They just don't work.

[Coochie liquor]

meh.

what was it? 13 straight wins? 6 straight against the fade?

This is where I’m at too. Been almost a whole season since we lost. Doesn’t hurt nearly as bad after winning a SB, and knowing you’re likely gonna do it again.

[petegz28]

Aren't we still in 1st place?

[Chief Roundup]

Really. So it makes sense to you to value the results of the small sampling of 5 games vs. the data pool of a full season plus playoffs.

19 games vs. 5.

Right, sure, that makes sense.

Yeah when you are evaluating the problems that have existed so far this season.

[BigRedChief]

Bubble screens rely on numbers on the edge. When the opposing defense has 8 DB's on the field, you don't have the numbers advantage. They just don't work.
So what type of plays should Andy be calling with our player personnel against 7-8 DB’s playing back and 3-4 rushing?

[BigRedChief]

This is a football discussion forum. The Chiefs looked like dogshit in all phases today, against the Raiders of all teams, and some people are asking wtf is going on. It might be some uninspired playcalling, it might be some uninspired players, it might be a lot of things.

The sky isn't falling and I don't think anybody is saying it is. But it sure is ****ing annoying when people want to discuss things that pretty ****ing obviously seem to be issues this team is gonna need to figure out, and they are constantly being shouted down by a group of posters who think that any discussion about, you know, FOOTBALL, is being a whiney crying bitch.

The Chiefs are gonna be fine, but they sure didn't look it today. Why can't people discuss that without some of your ****ing heads exploding?
No shit. This is the 1st post to survive 100+ replies/2000+ Views before everyone was shouting your the stupidest person here. We can discuss negative football even possibly negative stuff and the sky is not falling and we are still going to the Super Bowl this year. We are not some lame ass homer board.

[htismaqe]

So what type of plays should Andy be calling with our player personnel against 7-8 DB’s playing back and 3-4 rushing?

Runs up the gut. Unfortunately, the offensive line can't execute.

[htismaqe]

This is a football discussion forum. The Chiefs looked like dogshit in all phases today, against the Raiders of all teams, and some people are asking wtf is going on. It might be some uninspired playcalling, it might be some uninspired players, it might be a lot of things.

The sky isn't falling and I don't think anybody is saying it is. But it sure is fucking annoying when people want to discuss things that pretty fucking obviously seem to be issues this team is gonna need to figure out, and they are constantly being shouted down by a group of posters who think that any discussion about, you know, FOOTBALL, is being a whiney crying bitch.

The Chiefs are gonna be fine, but they sure didn't look it today. Why can't people discuss that without some of your fucking heads exploding?

Dude, the only "critical" posts that get shouted down are the stupid ones that say things like this team, which just won the Super Bowl, is embarrassing.

It's fine to have discussions about things they did wrong. It's fine to have conversations about things they can do better.

But there's a few people here (not BRC and not you) that just want to bitch and moan and say they suck without putting any thought into it.

[Lilmrp117]

Runs up the gut. Unfortunately, the offensive line can't execute.

Exactly. Andy needs to find a way to get some semblance of a running game. Defenses are not respecting the run which is allowing them to get an advantage in defending our passing game.

Also veach needs to find this year's wisnewski. I'm not sure why veach didn't just resign wiz, it's not like he broke the bank. That's the only part about the off-season by veach that I would criticize.

[Coach]

Exactly. Andy needs to find a way to get some semblance of a running game. Defenses are not respecting the run which is allowing them to get an advantage in defending our passing game.

Also veach needs to find this year's wisnewski. I'm not sure why veach didn't just resign wiz, it's not like he broke the bank. That's the only part about the off-season by veach that I would criticize.

Hard to establish a running game if your interior OL is getting their shit kicked in or not getting any push at all.

And I know they drafted Niang, but they still need to invest in the interior line, because right now, they're just getting abused everywhere.

[htismaqe]

Hard to establish a running game if your interior OL is getting their shit kicked in or not getting any push at all.

And I know they drafted Niang, but they still need to invest in the interior line, because right now, they're just getting abused everywhere.

They ran 20 run plays today. They ran 43 pass plays.

In the first 3 series, CEH had half of his total carries for the game and had 3 runs of 8 yards or more.

They just simply don't commit to the run and that hurts them.

[Coach]

They ran 20 run plays today. They ran 43 pass plays.

In the first 3 series, CEH had half of his total carries for the game and had 3 runs of 8 yards or more.

They just simply don't commit to the run and that hurts them.

I do agree with that they don't commit to the run.

I was mainly talking about when they show 3 or 4 man fronts, you should be able to rip off more than just a 4.0 yard per carry due to the numbers advantage.

Basically I'm just saying the interior line is just not very good. New England knew this and Las Vegas saw this as well, so they don't respect the interior run.

If the Chiefs want the other team to commit to the run, then they need to start ripping off 6-7 yards per carry, not 4.0.

We need week 1 CEH back, not the week 2-4 dude.

[gold_and_red]

Reid has always valued versatile OL, players who can sub in for multiple spots. He then plays the best five. I am wondering if the focus should be on pure OGs who have more of a nasty run blocking mentality as pass blocking is easier for OGs than for OTs. So we are ending up with OL who are overall good but not really great.

Anyway it is getting frustrating watching Mahomes constantly running outside the pocket and playing hero ball. Reminds of the Seattle OL and Wilson running around trying to make something happen.

[Chief Northman]

Not going to overthink this:

- Defense at every level was awful today after a great performance against NE. Maybe the Raiders were overlooked.
- Even if it does sound like a Homer complaining, those early non-calls along with some weak calls against Osemele and Kelce allowed the Raiders to hang around when it looked like the Chiefs might score 35 in the first half. When the Raiders went up, and subsequently tied in the second half, I felt the offence did not take what the Raider defence gave to them.
- First down production was garbage, as CEH gained minimal ground yards and Mahomes completion percentage was poor.
- Mahomes needs to do a better job of getting the ball out on time, and hanging in the pocket to complete more short to intermediate routes. I would bet there is no other team who has receivers run scramble rules more often than the Chiefs. He bails way too early and there are no guarantees once a quarterback has broken contain. Reid can help with this by running more tempo/hurry up to be able to get the defensive looks they can scout from teams when put into those situations. I find the offence does not dictate enough to defences by narrowing a teams scheme in this regard.
- The OL is subpar: Little movement in the run game, and Mahomes is scrambling far too much in the passing game for it to be consistent. Either help the scheme by leaving blockers in on more plays, or make a move to get some help especially now that Osemele is done.

Credit to the Raiders for having a solid game plan and protecting Carr. Playing multiple coverages also confused Mahomes at times. They outright won the second half without referee assistance, and are an up-and-coming team. Although the Chiefs record looks solid on paper, I think most fans know they have not put together a complete game this season. The good news is that this team does not have to be perfect to win, but if they aren’t more physical or focussed moving forward, being the hunted might quickly knock them off the top echelon and they will have a hard road to match a Super Bowl run.

[eDave]

Lets just bitch about every damn thing.

It's a discussion you asswhipe.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Not going to overthink this:

- Defense at every level was awful today after a great performance against NE. Maybe the Raiders were overlooked.
- Even if it does sound like a Homer complaining, those early non-calls along with some weak calls against Osemele and Kelce allowed the Raiders to hang around when it looked like the Chiefs might score 35 in the first half. When the Raiders went up, and subsequently tied in the second half, I felt the offence did not take what the Raider defence gave to them.
- First down production was garbage, as CEH gained minimal ground yards and Mahomes completion percentage was poor.
- Mahomes needs to do a better job of getting the ball out on time, and hanging in the pocket to complete more short to intermediate routes. I would bet there is no other team who has receivers run scramble rules more often than the Chiefs. He bails way too early and there are no guarantees once a quarterback has broken contain. Reid can help with this by running more tempo/hurry up to be able to get the defensive looks they can scout from teams when put into those situations. I find the offence does not dictate enough to defences by narrowing a teams scheme in this regard.
- The OL is subpar: Little movement in the run game, and Mahomes is scrambling far too much in the passing game for it to be consistent. Either help the scheme by leaving blockers in on more plays, or make a move to get some help especially now that Osemele is done.

Credit to the Raiders for having a solid game plan and protecting Carr. Playing multiple coverages also confused Mahomes at times. They outright won the second half without referee assistance, and are an up-and-coming team. Although the Chiefs record looks solid on paper, I think most fans know they have not put together a complete game this season. The good news is that this team does not have to be perfect to win, but if they aren’t more physical or focussed moving forward, being the hunted might quickly knock them off the top echelon and they will have a hard road to match a Super Bowl run.Mahomes can't get the ball out on time if every route is 20-25 yards down field.

We cannot protect him for that long, but Reid and EB have gotten used to Mahomes making something happen in those situations, so they seem to be refusing to use shallow crosses and quick slants to help him and the O-line out.

The Patriots were dropping 8 players back in coverage, and Reid and EB never adjusted the play calling. It was the exact same thing against the Raiders. But, not only were most of the routes too deep, but the receivers couldn't get separation from the DBs, which caused a lot of dropped balls.

I bet when I watch the all-22, or people breaking it down online, will see the same problems from the Patriots game repeating themselves on this film.

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[JakeF]

Reid isn't very good at covering for problems on an offensive line. Some coordinators do all sorts of shit to make up for weak blocking. Reid/Bienemy say fuck it, they run their plays and the Oline simply has to deal. Reid hates chip blocking to help his OT.

[FAH-Q]

I guess my number one observation from the game, all other comments RE the oline aside, is why we draft the best past catching RB to come out of the draft in years only to have him run dump off routes? Why aren’t we utilizing his full skill set in the route tree to create mismatches when it’s clear no one else besides Watkins and Kelce can get open in the short to intermediate routes? We have SEVERE problems on the oline which necessitate quick throws. We don’t even run slant routes which are nearly uncoverable, so I am struggling to understand the lack of adjustments to a problem that is beyond obvious.

[YontsRBake]

Have some of you guys really not caught on that this team coasts through the reg season and tries to not reveal a ton when it doesn't matter?

The difference in playcalling between the reg season and offs last year, especially on defense showed it enough.

[KCUnited]

Those vanilla regular season TD passes to Sherman and Fisher...

[htismaqe]

I do agree with that they don't commit to the run.

I was mainly talking about when they show 3 or 4 man fronts, you should be able to rip off more than just a 4.0 yard per carry due to the numbers advantage.

Basically I'm just saying the interior line is just not very good. New England knew this and Las Vegas saw this as well, so they don't respect the interior run.

If the Chiefs want the other team to commit to the run, then they need to start ripping off 6-7 yards per carry, not 4.0.

We need week 1 CEH back, not the week 2-4 dude.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

In the first quarter and a half, CEH had 5 runs. 8, 9, 6, 3, and 8 yards.

They were doing EXACTLY what you said - getting way more than 4 yards per carry.

And then they just stopped.

[chiefzilla1501]

I guess my number one observation from the game, all other comments RE the oline aside, is why we draft the best past catching RB to come out of the draft in years only to have him run dump off routes? Why aren’t we utilizing his full skill set in the route tree to create mismatches when it’s clear no one else besides Watkins and Kelce can get open in the short to intermediate routes? We have SEVERE problems on the oline which necessitate quick throws. We don’t even run slant routes which are nearly uncoverable, so I am struggling to understand the lack of adjustments to a problem that is beyond obvious.

I wonder how much of that is not trusting CEH. It takes a while to earn Reid's trust in the system especially when it comes to route tree. Has to be much harder when you get no offseason. I also wonder how much the Chiefs expected Damien williams to be here this season.

Also agree we need more short route options. A reason id really like to see a TE2 who can actually catch passes. Which is why I'd like to see Ricky seals Jones sooner rather than later.

[BigRedChief]

Runs up the gut. Unfortunately, the offensive line can't execute.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

In the first quarter and a half, CEH had 5 runs. 8, 9, 6, 3, and 8 yards.

They were doing EXACTLY what you said - getting way more than 4 yards per carry.

And then they just stopped.When we talked earlier in the week you said CEH would not have any issues running between the tackles in the NFL. As you state above, it looked like you were right.I even posted in the game day thread about eating crow. So......

Others in here and you say the Chiefs have to run the ball in the middle of the line for them to respect the pass. It looked like we were having some success and then we didn't and or quit trying.

Was that a play calling issue or a line issue or both?

[htismaqe]

When we talked earlier in the week you said CEH would not have any issues running between the tackles in the NFL. As you state above, it looked like you were right.I even posted in the game day thread about eating crow. So......

Others in here and you say you have to run the ball in the middle of the line for them to respect the pass. It looked like we were having some success and then we didn't and or quit trying.

Was that a play calling issue or a line issue or both?

Right now, I think it's situational play calling but I haven't looked closely at it yet.

I just don't see how the guy can have 5 good carries in 3 drives and then only 5 more the rest of the game.

They're not going to win consistently against these blanket coverage defenses running the ball 20 times and throwing 40+.

[BigRedChief]

Right now, I think it's situational play calling but I haven't looked closely at it yet.

I just don't see how the guy can have 5 good carries in 3 drives and then only 5 more the rest of the game.

They're not going to win consistently against these blanket coverage defenses running the ball 20 times and throwing 40+.

7 yards rushing in the 2nd half. That’s not good no matter how you slice it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They ran 20 run plays today. They ran 43 pass plays.

In the first 3 series, CEH had half of his total carries for the game and had 3 runs of 8 yards or more.

They just simply don't commit to the run and that hurts them.

25 carries for CEH in W1, I think he's had 55 combined in the last 4 weeks.

And I certainly do not understand the fascination with running him up the center's ass 90% of his carries - get him out in space, he succeeds.

And where's our screen game?

[SithCeNtZ]

I wonder how much of that is not trusting CEH. It takes a while to earn Reid's trust in the system especially when it comes to route tree. Has to be much harder when you get no offseason. I also wonder how much the Chiefs expected Damien williams to be here this season.

Also agree we need more short route options. A reason id really like to see a TE2 who can actually catch passes. Which is why I'd like to see Ricky seals Jones sooner rather than later.

I think the answer to this is close to zero as far as routes go. Note than CEH has been on the sideline for 99% of our 2 minute drill snaps until we are in the red zone. Yesterday was a good example. 2 minute drill and he was on the bench until we got into the red zone where he had the td called back. Williams doesn't quite have the stamina to play all 3 downs because when he's in they send him on deeper routes, and that's really the only time CEH spells him in no huddle situations.

[htismaqe]

25 carries for CEH in W1, I think he's had 55 combined in the last 4 weeks.

And I certainly do not understand the fascination with running him up the center's ass 90% of his carries - get him out in space, he succeeds.

And where's our screen game?

He was actually good running inside yesterday until they just pulled the plug.

People should really be prepared for this. Despite Kareem Hunt's dominance, in his rookie season he had 25+ carries 3 times and 10 or less THREE times.

Andy just doesn't run the ball that much.

[GloryDayz]

They did appear to somewhat take the day off from creativity.

Oh well, we'll do better next time.

Practice hard boys, it's hard to win any game in the NFL.

[chiefzilla1501]

25 carries for CEH in W1, I think he's had 55 combined in the last 4 weeks.

And I certainly do not understand the fascination with running him up the center's ass 90% of his carries - get him out in space, he succeeds.

And where's our screen game?


Ive been worried about that too. If you don't trust darrel or Darwin at all that you can't put them in on meaningful snaps, then find a plan B. We can't continue to give a rookie this kind of usage let alone without an offseason.

[Megatron96]

<iframe width="727" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zo_6JICgNG8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Patrick's post-game presser, in case anyone's interested.

Somewhere in the middle he talks for a minute about "taking what the defense gives him," and "running the plays as they are called." Not exact quotes, but paraphrased.

I think he's talking about how he sometimes gets so focused on trying to make a big play that he ignores the easy completions designed within the play, which sometimes makes him late getting the ball to the underneath receivers. He's always been susceptible to this, but he got away with it so much that I figured it didn't really matter. However, if defenses are going to start rushing only 3-4 and dropping 7-8 . . . well, it'll be interesting to see how Andy and Patrick address their game-plan this week.

Note: I should add that he's said similar things after a loss, so it's not something new.

[htismaqe]

Ive been worried about that too. If you don't trust darrel or Darwin at all that you can't put them in on meaningful snaps, then find a plan B. We can't continue to give a rookie this kind of usage let alone without an offseason.

They called up Washington and did nothing with him. :shrug:

[Pants]

We got 32 in what most would call garbage time. Not sure what game you guys watched, but we got pushed around in the trenches on both sides of the ball. I don’t give a shit about the refs; you have to assume they’ll be bad and miss some calls nowadays. Even Mahomes can’t consistently overcome a bad offensive line and a shitty defense. We’ve lived this before and hopefully it gets fixed.

It's not garbage time when you're a defensive stop away from potentially having almost 2 minutes to tie the damn game.

[ChiefsFanatic]

I just don't see how the guy can have 5 good carries in 3 drives and then only 5 more the rest of the game.


Reid did this a lot with Jamaal Charles, especially in the playoffs.



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[ChiefsFanatic]

<iframe width="727" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zo_6JICgNG8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Patrick's post-game presser, in case anyone's interested.

Somewhere in the middle he talks for a minute about "taking what the defense gives him," and "running the plays as they are called." Not exact quotes, but paraphrased.

I think he's talking about how he sometimes gets so focused on trying to make a big play that he ignores the easy completions designed within the play, which sometimes makes him late getting the ball to the underneath receivers. He's always been susceptible to this, but he got away with it so much that I figured it didn't really matter. However, if defenses are going to start rushing only 3-4 and dropping 7-8 . . . well, it'll be interesting to see how Andy and Patrick address their game-plan this week.

Note: I should add that he's said similar things after a loss, so it's not something new.He could have tried to take what the defense gave him, which would have been shallow crosses and quick slants, but, unfortunately for Patrick, the HC and OC didn't call any plays that would have taken advantage of that part of the field.

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[Hammock Parties]

If the Chiefs defense plays at even 75% of the level they had performed in the first four weeks this isn't a discussion today.

[htismaqe]

He could have tried to take what the defense gave him, which would have been shallow crosses and quick slants, but, unfortunately for Patrick, the HC and OC didn't call any plays that would have taken advantage of that part of the field.

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Actually, they did. Nobody was open, they had 7 DB's back there most of the game.

[Megatron96]

He could have tried to take what the defense gave him, which would have been shallow crosses and quick slants, but, unfortunately for Patrick, the HC and OC didn't call any plays that would have taken advantage of that part of the field.

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The Raiders actually tried to copy what NE did and they crowded the LoS and the short and intermediate zones down the middle. Where the defense was weaker was along the edges, to about 10 yards downfield. And many of Andy's plays have receivers in those edge areas, but they're dump-off passes.

Another thing to consider is that when Patrick throws the ball within 2.5 seconds of the snap, his numbers are Madden-like, and they're extremely consistent. I don't have the exact figures right now, but I might track them down a little later. The point is that Andy has plenty of plays where the QB can get rid of the ball in a hurry, if necessary, and they're very effective as well.

Now I have no doubt that Andy is busily figuring out plays to defeat the type of defense they've seen over the last couple weeks, but until then he also has plenty of plays where our offense can 'matriculate' down the field and score points. But Andy and Patrick have to be more willing to take those yards earlier in the play to give our play-makers more space and time to maybe break one off for a bigger gain.

Of course, this is mostly speculation, as I haven't yet re-watched the game and really tried to analyze what's been going on between our offense and these last two defenses. But during the game I did notice a couple times when Patrick could've just hit the first open receiver, but the receiver ran a short route outside of the hashes, and Patrick moved on to the next receiver for whatever reason. Several times this resulted in INCs, or Patrick running with the ball for a few yards. Not most of the time (IIRC), just a few times that I noticed. Will have to go back through the game play by play to figure out just how often.

Andy/EB/Patrick are just going to have to solve this defense, because every team that has the personnel and the coaches is now going to try and copy it when they meet up with the Chiefs going forward. Until then, they probably will have to adjust how they attack this scheme by taking the dink-and-dunk plays more often.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Actually, they did. Nobody was open, they had 7 DB's back there most of the game.There were hardly any real routes that were within 5-7 yards of the LOS. I am not counting the guys who would stand a yard off the LOS on the boundary just in case.

I am talking about routes like the 3rd down pass Robinson dropped against the Texans in the playoffs. Sort of a drag route. The majority of plays had receivers a minimum of 15 yards down field.

This resulted in Mahomes having to hold the ball waiting for the routes to develop. This in turn allowed defenders to get close enough to Mahomes to make him move up, or drift back, in the pocket. And Mahomes feeling like he needed to move the pocket, or escape the pocket, meant that the offense could not really get into any kind of rhythm.

It didn't help that for some reason our wide receivers were having a hard time creating separation. It seemed like every time Mahomes was under pressure, and made an accurate pass, the receiver had a defender behind him knocking the ball away.

Also, sending any TE not named Travis Kelce out on a route is utterly useless.

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[dallaschiefsfan]

Two things are true - this is not a mutually exclusive choice:

1. We lost because of both the offense AND defense. Although I think it was more so due to the defense/secondary/Spags playing/planning/reacting terribly.

2. On the offense's contribution to the loss, Reid absolutely is holding back, depending on the game. If he calls the game similar in style and calls several of the plays from the Ravens match-up, this game gets out of hand quickly and the Raiders become demoralized and Carr doesn't recover and over-achieve like he did Sunday. Most all of the quick pass plays from the Ravens matchup were benched against the Raiders for some reason. Too many long-developing plays were called, IMO.

I'm over it at this point. But I DO want Andy to unleash hell on the Raiders in Las Vegas and embed the smell of Chiefs dominance back on the minds of that loser franchise.

[htismaqe]

Two things are true - this is not a mutually exclusive choice:

1. We lost because of both the offense AND defense. Although I think it was more so due to the defense/secondary/Spags playing/planning/reacting terribly.

2. On the offense's contribution to the loss, Reid absolutely is holding back, depending on the game. If he calls the game similar in style and calls several of the plays from the Ravens match-up, this game gets out of hand quickly and the Raiders become demoralized and Carr doesn't recover and over-achieve like he did Sunday. Most all of the quick pass plays from the Ravens matchup were benched against the Raiders for some reason. Too many long-developing plays were called, IMO.

I'm over it at this point. But I DO want Andy to unleash hell on the Raiders in Las Vegas and embed the smell of Chiefs dominance back on the minds of that loser franchise.

If the refs called the obvious PI on Abram or held onto the flag on the ticky tack holding call on Osemele, the game would have already been out of hand.

Those two calls really screwed the Chiefs.

[Megatron96]

Andy's play-calling vs. the Raiders resulted in the Chiefs scoring 46 points. We had two TDs called back for ticky-tack/phantom flags.

But Andy dialed up 46 points.

But it's kind of funny that CPers want to question play-calling that results in nearly 50 points. With a banged up OL, with a brand-new G, a rookie RB, and the loss of a starting WR.

However, when you're Super Bowl champs, that went 4-0 for a record-setting 4th time, and you finally lose one game after winning the last 13, I guess we have to complain about something.

Might as well be the HC that delivered that ring, and all those records.

[BigRedChief]

I'm over it at this point. But I DO want Andy to unleash hell on the Raiders in Las Vegas and embed the smell of Chiefs dominance back on the minds of that loser franchise.And do a victory lap or two around the LV stadium.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Andy's play-calling vs. the Raiders resulted in the Chiefs scoring 46 points. We had two TDs called back for ticky-tack/phantom flags.

But Andy dialed up 46 points.

But it's kind of funny that CPers want to question play-calling that results in nearly 50 points. With a banged up OL, with a brand-new G, a rookie RB, and the loss of a starting WR.

However, when you're Super Bowl champs, that went 4-0 for a record-setting 4th time, and you finally lose one game after winning the last 13, I guess we have to complain about something.

Might as well be the HC that delivered that ring, and all those records.I understand that he won a Super Bowl. And I will always be extremely grateful to Andy Reid and EB, not only for bringing us a SB Trophy, but for their help in making Mahomes the QB that we have always wanted.

But, continuing to say that losses aren't his fault, for whatever reason, based on the fact that he won a SB, is just not a smart thing to do. Reid made coaching and play calling errors that contributed to the loss more than Mahomes contributed to the loss.

Please refer to the current GM in Denver. John Elway won 2 Super Bowls as a player, and seems to also get credit for Peyton Manning's SB in Denver as well.

And what are the Broncos fans going to get? Probably another decade with a GM that can't build a team without a HOF quarterback. But, no one can criticize him, as he won them Super Bowls.

I am not saying Andy Reid would do anything like what Elway has done, but I am saying that a SB ring doesn't absolve him from being accountable for coaching that contributes to a loss.

People seem more willing to blame Mahomes than they are Andy Reid, but I am positive that Mahomes plays QB better than Andy Reid coaches.

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[dallaschiefsfan]

If the refs called the obvious PI on Abram or held onto the flag on the ticky tack holding call on Osemele, the game would have already been out of hand.

Those two calls really screwed the Chiefs.

I agree with this. Which only further illustrates that if we can cleanly beat teams while Andy is holding back (or sticking to whatever game plan he had on Sunday), I can stomach a loss or two that should never have been.

As for anyone that has concerns over the number one playoff seed...just look at the Ravens schedule. They have a hard road ahead. Love that the Steelers and Browns are playing better ball while the Ravens are vying to be our equal. Their divisional situation is far more difficult than ours...at least this year.

[Pants]

And do a victory lap or two around the LV stadium.

No, thanks.

That kind of shit is weak and beneath the Chiefs, who are not only the Super Bowl Champions but also have the keys to AFCW.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Andy's play-calling vs. the Raiders resulted in the Chiefs scoring 46 points. We had two TDs called back for ticky-tack/phantom flags.

But Andy dialed up 46 points.

But it's kind of funny that CPers want to question play-calling that results in nearly 50 points. With a banged up OL, with a brand-new G, a rookie RB, and the loss of a starting WR.



Nah...I've already said that we win without the ticky tak flags. However, we win, despite the flags if he calls the game like he did against the Ravens. Instead of a potential 46 points, you would be talking about points in the 50's. (except, of course, that Andy takes the gas off the pedal when the other team is demoralized...but I'm talking potential points, rather than how it would have actually went down).

[Megatron96]

I understand that he won a Super Bowl. And I will always be extremely grateful to Andy Reid and EB, not only for bringing us a SB Trophy, but for their help in making Mahomes the QB that we have always wanted.

But, continuing to say that losses aren't his fault, for whatever reason, based on the fact that he won a SB, is just not a smart thing to do. Reid made coaching and play calling errors that contributed to the loss more than Mahomes contributed to the loss.
. . . .


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Not to argue, but I have to disagree on your points here.

Let's start with "But, continuing to say that losses aren't his fault . . ."

"Losses"? What losses are we talking about? This season? One (1). Single. Solo. Uno. Solitary. The Chiefs under Andy this season are 4-1. Are we really going to call Andy's judgement into question over one loss this season? Were we really hoping for that undefeated season? Otherwise, I'm not sure what we're talking about.

How about since the last time we lost a game. That would be week 10 of last year. Since that loss, Andy has coached the team to 13 consecutive Ws. 13. A baker's dozen. Just not enough winning?

How about since the beginning of the Mahomes era? Since 2018, the Chiefs under Andy Reid have accumulated a record of 28-9. And two of those wins were helmed by none other than Matt "Midnight Hour" Moore, our beloved HS teacher/3rd string QB.

And I'll just leave your argument about Mahomes being a better QB than Andy is a coach where it is, because that's pretty funny as it is.


I think some people are overreacting a bit over one loss. I get it was to the Raiders, which was a shocker, for sure.

But I'm 100% certain it was an outlier, and not a trend.

The trend is the fact that Andy's record against the Raiders is 12-3, including two 5-game win streaks, and most of which was orchestrated before the Mahomes-era.

Andy's doing just fine.

[GloryDayz]

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Patrick's post-game presser, in case anyone's interested.

Somewhere in the middle he talks for a minute about "taking what the defense gives him," and "running the plays as they are called." Not exact quotes, but paraphrased.

I think he's talking about how he sometimes gets so focused on trying to make a big play that he ignores the easy completions designed within the play, which sometimes makes him late getting the ball to the underneath receivers. He's always been susceptible to this, but he got away with it so much that I figured it didn't really matter. However, if defenses are going to start rushing only 3-4 and dropping 7-8 . . . well, it'll be interesting to see how Andy and Patrick address their game-plan this week.

Note: I should add that he's said similar things after a loss, so it's not something new.

Honey Badger's comments were indeed awesome...