What's up with Mecole Hardman?

[carcosa]

Pringle was getting all the snaps down the stretch. Is he in the doghouse? (I'm only partially asking because I started him in fantasy thinking he'd get some looks with Watkins out)

Seems like he's regressed a lot this season, unfortunately...

[Coach]

Yeah, he hasn't progressed as I hoped he would.

He also hasn't done well on his KO's.

[Molitoth]

His special teams decisions have been shit as well.

Must be spoiling winning the Superbowl during your rookie season.

[carcosa]

Yeah, he hasn't progressed as I hoped he would.

He also hasn't done well on his KO's.

Yeah he looked totally lost in the return game tonight...

[bigjosh]

I cant believe we ended up with him instead of dk metcalf.

He has been completely terrible for the entire season.

[Megatron96]

Hardman is fine. Chiefs only threw the ball 26 times the whole game. It was raining cats and dogs and it was cold; not ideal conditions for passing. Hell, it's Buffalo; place is always windy.

[eDave]

Displays of selfishness running the ball out like that. Needs taped to the goal post.

[lcarus]

Hardman is fine. Chiefs only threw the ball 26 times the whole game. It was raining cats and dogs and it was cold; not ideal conditions for passing. Hell, it's Buffalo; place is always windy.

I was gonna say the same thing. Hell even Tyreek didn't do shit in this game.

[In58men]

He’s not getting it and he shouldn’t be returning kickoffs anymore.

Wasted pick.

[-King-]

We weren't throwing deep or running jet sweeps/push passed and that'd basically all he's really good for on offense. Pringle and Robinson are just better route runners.

[staylor26]

JFC the same idiots that have been bitching about CEH have turned their attention to Hardman.

When the gameplan is run the ball down their fucking throat, you aren’t going to see much out of Hill and Hardman.

[BWillie]

Pringle was getting all the snaps down the stretch. Is he in the doghouse? (I'm only partially asking because I started him in fantasy thinking he'd get some looks with Watkins out)

Seems like he's regressed a lot this season, unfortunately...

He cant run improvised routes like Pringle...or Hill or Kelce.

[carcosa]

I was gonna say the same thing. Hell even Tyreek didn't do shit in this game.

I wouldn't be that worried about a lack of production except that Pringle was getting Hardman's snaps down the stretch. That's more concerning to me.

[Red Dawg]

He's not that good. That's all. We should have taken Metcalf.

[BWillie]

We weren't throwing deep or running jet sweeps/push passed and that'd basically all he's really good for on offense. Pringle and Robinson are just better route runners.

Yep.

[WhiteWhale]

JFC the same idiots that have been bitching about CEH have turned their attention to Hardman.

When the gameplan is run the ball down their ****ing throat, you aren’t going to see much out of Hill and Hardman.

Remember when chris jones was public enemy #1?

This place is nuts.

[Red Dawg]

Pringle seemingly makes a play when he's in there. He needs Hardmans spot.

[Rasputin]

Well I think he will pull it together but he needs to get it together but I still am hopeful he turns it around for himself.


i thought he needed to block on that end around or a play Hill had the ball but he was looking around like what do I do




I still love my son he will get on the right page. I thought with Sammy out he would step it up. He needs too.

[staylor26]

Remember when chris jones was public enemy #1?

This place is nuts.

They ALWAYS have to have an enemy on the team. Bunch of miserable fucks.

Hardman has made plays when his name is called. That’s all I care about.

[alanm]

Blocking liability.

[Deberg_1990]

It was nice to see Pringle get some action. He always makes clutch catches.

[Hammock Parties]

JFC the same idiots that have been bitching about CEH have turned their attention to Hardman.

When the gameplan is run the ball down their fucking throat, you aren’t going to see much out of Hill and Hardman.

These people are stupid. Deep speed is keeping the safeties back and opening up running lanes.

[Graystoke]

Hardman is fine.
But I do like Pringle

[PHOG]

:shake:

[staylor26]

Tyreek didn’t do shit this week either, he fucking sucks!

[lcarus]

I wouldn't be that worried about a lack of production except that Pringle was getting Hardman's snaps down the stretch. That's more concerning to me.

Right I get it. I think he'll be ok though. He's almost strictly a "home run hitter" at this point and we just weren't going for the home run throws at all tonight. It's disappointing that he isn't more than that at this point but it is what it is.

[KC_Connection]

Making DAT like decisions all game on ST. Not acceptable.

[Why Not?]

Pringle was getting all the snaps down the stretch. Is he in the doghouse? (I'm only partially asking because I started him in fantasy thinking he'd get some looks with Watkins out)

Seems like he's regressed a lot this season, unfortunately...

Did the same. Also took over 49.5 receiving yards on a prop bet. Unfortunately he just seems lost

[Molitoth]

I'm not judging Hardman's WR skills but his ST decisions were bad this game.

[carcosa]

Tyreek didn’t do shit this week either, he fucking sucks!

Calm down

[-King-]

Tyreek didn’t do shit this week either, he fucking sucks!

He was in the game running varied routes though. Hardman wasn't. He was getting less plays than Robinson and Pringle and it's obvious Reid and Mahomes trust him less

[staylor26]

He was in the game running varied routes though. Hardman wasn't. He was getting less plays than Robinson and Pringle and it's obvious Reid and Mahomes trust him less

Run heavy gameplans aren’t going to favor Hardman, especially when we aren’t going PA and throwing deep often. Blocking isn’t his strength. It is what it is.

[Shaid]

Pringle is much more of a Sammy replacement. Hardman is more of a Hill replacement. That said, I haven't been happy with Hardman this year, especially on special teams. Quit costing us yards dumbass.

[htismaqe]

He was in the game running varied routes though. Hardman wasn't. He was getting less plays than Robinson and Pringle and it's obvious Reid and Mahomes trust him less

They were running the ball. They were using bigger WR sets.

[carcosa]

He was in the game running varied routes though. Hardman wasn't. He was getting less plays than Robinson and Pringle and it's obvious Reid and Mahomes trust him less

Yeah this is pretty much my point. I like Hardman a lot and still think he's very talented. Staylor can't help but overstate things and pick fights though

[htismaqe]

Run heavy gameplans aren’t going to favor Hardman. It is what it is.

Exactly.

[Simply Red]

we'll be fine hun!

[htismaqe]

Yeah this is pretty much my point. I like Hardman a lot and still think he's very talented. Staylor can't help but overstate things and pick fights though

He probably did that because immediately after beating a 4-1 division leader on the road, you decided to start a bitch thread about Hardman.

[Chiefshrink]

Pringle seemingly makes a play when he's in there. He needs Hardmans spot.

When given the opportunity Pringle is a baller and clutch when needed. He also is smart and is a student of the game of which you saw that when Mahomes was in trouble rolling out. You hope Hardman is not getting "gun shy" on KOs and someone said it awhile back that Hardman may not be a student of the game or trouble taking in the playbook and it is catching up to him and Pringle is capitalizing.

[carcosa]

He probably did that because immediately after beating a 4-1 division leader on the road, you decided to start a bitch thread about Hardman.

Not a bitch thread but ok

Literally just concerned that Pringle was getting important snaps over last year's top pick

[htismaqe]

Not a bitch thread but ok

Literally just concerned that Pringle was getting important snaps over last year's top pick

Because they were running the ball 46 times. Hardman isn't that kind of WR.

[O.city]

First off he’s just not gonna get that many targets here with the way things are constructed

With hill and kelce and now CEH when they’re running it we’ll just not a lot to go around

He’s not really progressed but he hasn’t really gotten the reps to progress at this point

[carcosa]

Because they were running the ball 46 times. Hardman isn't that kind of WR.

Ok

[htismaqe]

When given the opportunity Pringle is a baller and clutch when needed. He also is smart and is a student of the game of which you saw that when Mahomes was in trouble rolling out. You hope Hardman is not getting "gun shy" on KOs and someone said it awhile back that Hardman may not be a student of the game or trouble taking in the playbook and it is catching up to him and Pringle is capitalizing.

ROFL

Pringle is playing because Watkins isn't. It's that simple.

They were running the ball and wanted blocking WR's in the game. Watkins was out so Pringle is the next guy up.

It has nothing to do with being a "student of the game". Absolutely hilarious.

[bigjosh]

Comparing him to tyreek is stupid.

Mecole has 13 receptions in 6 games, and has made multiple bad special teams plays over the last few weeks.

He has been widely ineffective, and Andy’s distrust in him when trying to close out the game speaks volumes.

Im not hoping the kid fails. I hope he gets his shit together but watching dk metcalf destroy defenses every week hurts knowing we took hardman instead

[htismaqe]

Comparing him to tyreek is stupid.

Mecole has 13 receptions in 6 games, and has made multiple bad special teams plays over the last few weeks.

He has been widely ineffective, and Andy’s distrust in him when trying to close out the game speaks volumes.

Im not hoping the kid fails. I hope he gets his shit together but watching dk metcalf destroy defenses every week hurts knowing we took hardman instead

ROFL

[carcosa]

Making a note to check with htis to see if it's ok to post a critical thread after the next win

[RunKC]

Comparing him to tyreek is stupid.

Mecole has 13 receptions in 6 games, and has made multiple bad special teams plays over the last few weeks.

He has been widely ineffective, and Andy’s distrust in him when trying to close out the game speaks volumes.

Im not hoping the kid fails. I hope he gets his shit together but watching dk metcalf destroy defenses every week hurts knowing we took hardman instead

Does it hurt knowing that Hardman’s return sparked momentum to come back from 24-0 in the playoffs leading to a Super Bowl win?

[htismaqe]

Making a note to check with htis to see if it's ok to post a critical thread after the next win

Maybe wait a few minutes next time?

I mean we just came out of the game thread and were subjected to all the idiocy there for 3 hours.

[carcosa]

Maybe wait a few minutes next time?

I mean we just came out of the game thread and were subjected to all the idiocy there for 3 hours.

Gimme a number and I'll do that

[bigjosh]

Does it hurt knowing that Hardman’s return sparked momentum to come back from 24-0 in the playoffs leading to a Super Bowl win?


Thats cool, i remember a returner that we had prior to him that probably could have done the same thing. [emoji849]

[RunKC]

Thats cool, i remember a returner that we had prior to him that probably could have done the same thing. [emoji849]

Yeah and we drafted Hardman bc we thought Hill was fucked. Did you get knocked into a comma and just forget that?

[bigjosh]

Yeah and we drafted Hardman bc we thought Hill was fucked. Did you get knocked into a comma and just forget that?


Are we in agreement that dk has shown that he is a better player now with a higher ceiling, or are you just truing to change my argument?

[htismaqe]

Are we in agreement that dk has shown that he is a better player now with a higher ceiling, or are you just truing to change my argument?

DK Metcalf?

Who's trying to change the argument again?

ROFL

[bigjosh]

DK Metcalf?

Who's trying to change the argument again?

ROFL


Go look at all my previous thread comments homeboy. Literally every one of them mentions him being taken over metcalf.

[Peter Gibbons]

I wonder if he understands that yards run East-West don’t count.
That would explain his kick returns at least. Short of that excuse, his play has been below expectations for a while now.

[htismaqe]

Go look at all my previous thread comments homeboy. Literally every one of them mentions him being taken over metcalf.

The title of this thread is "What's up with Mecole Hardman".

I've seen your comments. They're all about DK Metcalf. Last I checked, this thread has nothing to do with DK Metcalf.

Stop trying to change the subject.

[bobhill]

He can catch the ball

[bigjosh]

The title of this thread is "What's up with Mecole Hardman".

I've seen your comments. They're all about DK Metcalf. Last I checked, this thread has nothing to do with DK Metcalf.

Stop trying to change the subject.

Fine, can you agree that hardman hasn’t progressed and looks like ripe trash this year then, or are you blind.

[htismaqe]

Fine, can you agree that hardman hasn’t progressed and looks like ripe trash this year then, or are you blind.

He's the 4th WR on the team and he still has 13 receptions and 2 TD's.

He's made some ST mistakes. He's still one of the best 4th WR's in the game.

Get over it.

[DTVietnam]

i think Mecole has played well when given oppurtunites..maybe hes not vibing in practice. .

[ThaVirus]

Because they were running the ball 46 times. Hardman isn't that kind of WR.

It's kind of concerning that he isn't, though. He was a 2nd rounder. Those guys really shouldn't come off the field in favor of UDFAs no matter the game plan.

[Simply Red]

I'm horny homeboys!1

[keg in kc]

Regardless of whether he can run block or not, it's concerning when the guys making key plays late in the game are Robinson and Pringle, and not him.

[-King-]

He's the 4th WR on the team and he still has 13 receptions and 2 TD's.

He's made some ST mistakes. He's still one of the best 4th WR's in the game.

Get over it.

Is a 2nd round WR being one of the best 4th WRs in the game really something to brag about?

[ModSocks]

JFC the same idiots that have been bitching about CEH have turned their attention to Hardman.

When the gameplan is run the ball down their fucking throat, you aren’t going to see much out of Hill and Hardman.

This.

The game plan was entirely different and the focus was not on Hill/hardman type plays. Give me a break with this shit.

[htismaqe]

Is a 2nd round WR being one of the best 4th WRs in the game really something to brag about?

He's sitting behind two of the better WR's in the game. Not sure what everybody expects. Look at Andy Reid's history with WR's.

[DJ's left nut]

His special teams decisions have been shit as well.

Must be spoiling winning the Superbowl during your rookie season.

Yeah he’s been AWFUL in the return game for most of the year.

[bigjosh]

He's sitting behind two of the better WR's in the game. Not sure what everybody expects. Look at Andy Reid's history with WR's.


And one of those two receivers has missed the last two games, and he still is hardly getting snaps. Demarcus Robinson and udfa pringle are getting more snaps (not that im mad about that, pringle has looked sharp this year)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Megatron96]

Regardless of whether he can run block or not, it's concerning when the guys making key plays late in the game are Robinson and Pringle, and not him.

We ran the ball 46 times. Both DRob and Pringle are bigger, much better run-blockers than Hardman, who's still learning how to block. No mystery here.

[htismaqe]

And one of those two receivers has missed the last two games, and he still is hardly getting snaps. Demarcus Robinson and udfa pringle are getting more snaps (not that im mad about that, pringle has looked sharp this year)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hardman doesn't backup Watkins, he backs up Tyreek.

The fact that you can't see the difference between Watkins and Hardman just with your eyes is mystifying.

When Watkins goes down, Robinson plays. Every WR on the team isn't interchangeable.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Hardman will be fine. The only thing holding him back right now is his inability to beat press coverage without running around the jam from the CB. Notice how freaking strong Sammy Brokedick and Tyreek are? They're jacked. Hardman isn't there yet. Once he gets a little stronger and starts going through the CB instead of around him he'll be a force. I had hoped it would be this season, but looks like it might take him longer.

That being said, he needs to stop running the ball out of the end zone on kickoffs unless we're desperate for a big play late in a game. They're not opening any lanes for him so why force it?

[ModSocks]

Hardman doesn't backup Watkins, he backs up Tyreek.

The fact that you can't see the difference between Watkins and Hardman just with your eyes is mystifying.

When Watkins goes down, Robinson plays. Every WR on the team isn't interchangeable.

Fosho

[O.city]

It does kinda show though that they need to re sign Watkins or bring someone else in

[-King-]

Hardman doesn't backup Watkins, he backs up Tyreek.

The fact that you can't see the difference between Watkins and Hardman just with your eyes is mystifying.

When Watkins goes down, Robinson plays. Every WR on the team isn't interchangeable.

So we drafted a WR in the 2nd who will basically always be a backup as long as Tyreek is on the team even if the WR2 spot is open?

Cool I guess.

[Willie Lanier]

So we drafted a WR in the 2nd who will basically always be a backup as long as Tyreek is on the team even if the WR2 spot is open?

Cool I guess.

Are you ever happy?

[prhom]

So we drafted a WR in the 2nd who will basically always be a backup as long as Tyreek is on the team even if the WR2 spot is open?

Cool I guess.

One, when they drafted him most people thought Hill was likely not going to play that year, or for a big part of it. Two, I’m guessing the role of Tyreek putting a special kind of pressure on a defense is an important part of our offense and we needed to ensure we could still do that if Tyreek wasn’t on the field.

[-King-]

Are you ever happy?

I was happy we won the game but this is a thread about Hardman. I don't know how happy you could be with his development so far.

But just for you.... "Great game Hardman! You were sensational out there!"

Happy?

[Megatron96]

So we drafted a WR in the 2nd who will basically always be a backup as long as Tyreek is on the team even if the WR2 spot is open?

Cool I guess.

Not picking at you in particular, just saying:

I said when we drafted Hardman it could take a couple (possibly three) seasons before he accumulates enough experience to actually be a starter. These are just the growing pains he's going through because he came into the league with just a couple seasons in college as a WR. What he's doing is normal for a guy like him. He'll be fine. Patience.

[-King-]

One, when they drafted him most people thought Hill was likely not going to play that year, or for a big part of it. Two, I’m guessing the role of Tyreek putting a special kind of pressure on a defense is an important part of our offense and we needed to ensure we could still do that if Tyreek wasn’t on the field.

I fully understand why we drafted him. But after it was clear Hill would still be on the team, you'd have to think Hardman would take a more traditional WR2 develompent role right? Because even now, he still can't replace Hill if Hill goes out despite everyone saying he's Hills replacement. Hill runs every single route you can think of and then more. Hardman doesn't.

[oldman]

While I question some of his ST decisions lately, I don't think that's why he's riding the pines. Today's game was run first, pass 2nd. Hardman is a speed guy, but when there's a monsoon going on, you need guys that can run sharp routes and lay a block on someone. Hardman isn't there yet.

[ChiefsFanatic]

They ALWAYS have to have an enemy on the team. Bunch of miserable fucks.



Hardman has made plays when his name is called. That’s all I care about.Hardman is fine as a wide receiver, but man, he has made some bad decisions on returning kick-offs this year.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Chargem]

Both him and Tyreek look like they are playing through minor injuries.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

All that blocking has got to effect touch when catching the football( prevent cut Kelce thread)

[Willie Lanier]

I was happy we won the game but this is a thread about Hardman. I don't know how happy you could be with his development so far.

But just for you.... "Great game Hardman! You were sensational out there!"

Happy?

I mean yes you're not wrong; he hasn't exactly blown my hair back this year; but lighten up a little.

Hardman's trying to fill a nonexistent role.

He'll never be tyreek, but that's the hand he was dealt and honestly I'm going to take small victories when they make themselves available.

We played like garbage for a good chunk of that game and ended with a W

I suppose we just have different views on what constitutes success

[PAChiefsGuy]

Pringle is much more of a Sammy replacement. Hardman is more of a Hill replacement. That said, I haven't been happy with Hardman this year, especially on special teams. Quit costing us yards dumbass.

Would people stop with this Hardman is a Hill replacement crap? Hardman is not Hill and never will be. Just because they both are fast doesnt make Hardman Hill. Hardman is a one-trick pony while WR Hill can beat you in so many different ways.

That said I'm not just ready to give up on Hardman but it doesn't look like he will anything more than a speed guy who will beat you on deep routes.

[htismaqe]

I fully understand why we drafted him. But after it was clear Hill would still be on the team, you'd have to think Hardman would take a more traditional WR2 develompent role right? Because even now, he still can't replace Hill if Hill goes out despite everyone saying he's Hills replacement. Hill runs every single route you can think of and then more. Hardman doesn't.

All WR's on this team have to learn everybody else's roles. Hardman can run every route Hill can, at least in theory, or he won't play because that's Andy's rule.

If Hill were to go down, we absolutely would see Hardman having a greater role.

[htismaqe]

Would people stop with this Hardman is a Hill replacement crap? Hardman is not Hill and never will be. Just because they both are fast doesnt make Hardman Hill. Hardman is a one-trick pony while WR Hill can beat you in so many different ways.

That said I'm not just ready to give up on Hardman but it doesn't look like he will anything more than a speed guy who will beat you on deep routes.

NOBODY will ever be Hill. He's that special.

That being said, Hardman and Hill play the same position and role. They're the speed WR's on this team. If Hill were to go down with an injury, Hardman would have to step up. That's just the way it is, whether he's ready for that or not.

[PAChiefsGuy]

NOBODY will ever be Hill. He's that special.

That being said, Hardman and Hill play the same position and role. They're the speed WR's on this team. If Hill were to go down with an injury, Hardman would have to step up. That's just the way it is, whether he's ready for that or not.

They play the same position but they definitely do not play the same role.

Hill's role is much bigger than Hardmans ever will be. Just stop w the comparisons Hardman's peak is probably a #2 on a team that doesn't have a lot of deep threat weapons.

[htismaqe]

They play the same position but they definitely do not play the same role.

Hill's role is much bigger than Hardmans ever will be. Just stop w the comparisons Hardman's peak is probably a #2 on a team that doesn't have a lot of deep threat weapons.

ROFL

[Dante84]

Just for shits and giggles - and not that I want to - but I'm curious what kind of haul we could get for Hardman via trade, either player swap or draft capital.

Let's say, hypothetically, Veach/Reid/Mahomes/Toub haven't been as impressed with MH's development, know that he's probably peaked in terms of value, and teams are open to acquiring him. What could we get? What sort of contingencies would we need to account for with his departure?

[htismaqe]

Just for shits and giggles - and not that I want to - but I'm curious what kind of haul we could get for Hardman via trade, either player swap or draft capital.

Let's say, hypothetically, Veach/Reid/Mahomes/Toub haven't been as impressed with MH's development, know that he's probably peaked in terms of value, and teams are open to acquiring him. What could we get? What sort of contingencies would we need to account for with his departure?

He might bring a 4th but I'd be shocked if you could get higher than that. He's worth more than that to the team, despite his underwhelming play.

[Dante84]

He might bring a 4th but I'd be shocked if you could get higher than that. He's worth more than that to the team, despite his underwhelming play.

Agreed, I'd keep him for sure if that's all that was on the table.

[PAChiefsGuy]

He might bring a 4th but I'd be shocked if you could get higher than that. He's worth more than that to the team, despite his underwhelming play.

No one is giving up a 4th for Hardman. You'll be lucky to get a 6th...

Hey what weed strain are you currently smoking? Must be some good shit.

[TEX]

All WR's on this team have to learn everybody else's roles. Hardman can run every route Hill can, at least in theory, or he won't play because that's Andy's rule.

If Hill were to go down, we absolutely would see Hardman having a greater role.

Exactly. See Raven's game last season.

[Shaid]

Would people stop with this Hardman is a Hill replacement crap? Hardman is not Hill and never will be. Just because they both are fast doesnt make Hardman Hill. Hardman is a one-trick pony while WR Hill can beat you in so many different ways.

That said I'm not just ready to give up on Hardman but it doesn't look like he will anything more than a speed guy who will beat you on deep routes.

I'm not saying he is Hill, but routes like Wasp are routes that only a guy with Hill speed can do. That's what I'm saying. He's obviously not the same caliber of player but he can run those routes where you need that high end speed to stretch the defense. Call it a poor man's Hill if that makes you feel better.

[htismaqe]

No one is giving up a 4th for Hardman. You'll be lucky to get a 6th...

Hey what weed strain are you currently smoking? Must be some good shit.

ROFL

[Mecca]

Hardman is not a refined route runner he's also in a deep and talented group, it happens.

[KCJake]

Hardman is fine.
But I do like Pringle

This. End of thread

[DaneMcCloud]

Hardman really needed an intense offseason regimen of route running, building core strength and more reps with the entire offense in order to progress in 2020 and because of COVID-19, that did not occur.

I can understand why some people are down on him but it's hardly the end of the world.

The Chiefs have other receivers that can and have stepped up and Hardman will continue to learn and grow over the course of the season.

[kcjayhawks5]

Hardman is fine. He’s young and having to work more than last year and is figuring it out. It’s his 2nd season in the league. He’s fine.

[FloridaMan88]

Seems like the only route Hardman is consistent at is the deep post play which opposing teams are taking away with 8-man deep coverages.

Otherwise the only way to get him the ball are on bubble screens/jet sweeps, etc.

[htismaqe]

Seems like the only route Hardman is consistent at is the deep post play which opposing teams are taking away with 8-man deep coverages.

Otherwise the only way to get him the ball are on bubble screens/jet sweeps, etc.

They use him in the running game the same way they use Tyreek.

[htismaqe]

Hardman really needed an intense offseason regimen of route running, building core strength and more reps with the entire offense in order to progress in 2020 and because of COVID-19, that did not occur.

I can understand why some people are down on him but it's hardly the end of the world.

The Chiefs have other receivers that can and have stepped up and Hardman will continue to learn and grow over the course of the season.

He's a 2nd-year player with no offseason. Not sure what people expect really.

[OKchiefs]

He's a 2nd-year player with no offseason. Not sure what people expect really.

My expectation is that by next year we wouldn't be forced to use a top pick at WR in the draft. As it stands I don't see how you can avoid taking a wide receiver with the 1st or 2nd pick. That's fine, but we also likely have needs in that range at linebacker, OL, and maybe DL. It would be nice if Hardman could show anything at all to give the team confidence they could wait to take a receiver if necessary.

[Hydrae]

My only complaint with Mecole is that he is still thinking too much. This is true on returns as well as as a WR.

Darwin has the same problem. (except as a RB!)

[Mecca]

My expectation is that by next year we wouldn't be forced to use a top pick at WR in the draft. As it stands I don't see how you can avoid taking a wide receiver with the 1st or 2nd pick. That's fine, but we also likely have needs in that range at linebacker, OL, and maybe DL. It would be nice if Hardman could show anything at all to give the team confidence they could wait to take a receiver if necessary.

This gonna sound weird but at this point I'm not really all that unsure that Byron Pringle couldn't do Sammy Watkins job...

[penguinz]

My expectation is that by next year we wouldn't be forced to use a top pick at WR in the draft. As it stands I don't see how you can avoid taking a wide receiver with the 1st or 2nd pick. That's fine, but we also likely have needs in that range at linebacker, OL, and maybe DL. It would be nice if Hardman could show anything at all to give the team confidence they could wait to take a receiver if necessary.

Watkins will resign with KC if he still wants to play. He loves Reed and PM.

[OKchiefs]

Watkins will resign with KC if he still wants to play. He loves Reed and PM.

I'm not so sure we have the cap flexibility to do so, and I'm not even sure we should with Watkins proving yet again that he can't stay healthy.

[Mecca]

I'm not so sure we have the cap flexibility to do so, and I'm not even sure we should with Watkins proving yet again that he can't stay healthy.

We have a lot of FA's after the year and I don't really expect a ton of them back to be honest...

[scho63]

Last year he seemed to speed straight ahead on KO returns for nice gains- this year it's all 40 yards sideways for no gain.

He also seems to be a situational receiver - I wish they would give him a jet sweep or WR screen a couple of times per game.

[PAChiefsGuy]

My expectation is that by next year we wouldn't be forced to use a top pick at WR in the draft. As it stands I don't see how you can avoid taking a wide receiver with the 1st or 2nd pick. That's fine, but we also likely have needs in that range at linebacker, OL, and maybe DL. It would be nice if Hardman could show anything at all to give the team confidence they could wait to take a receiver if necessary.

Exactly.

The guy is clearly losing the confidence of his coaches if WRs like Robinson and Pringle are getting more snaps than him.

[htismaqe]

My expectation is that by next year we wouldn't be forced to use a top pick at WR in the draft. As it stands I don't see how you can avoid taking a wide receiver with the 1st or 2nd pick. That's fine, but we also likely have needs in that range at linebacker, OL, and maybe DL. It would be nice if Hardman could show anything at all to give the team confidence they could wait to take a receiver if necessary.

Watkins, Robinson, AND Pringle are free agents after this year. I don't see how there's a way they can bring Watkins back for more money when he can't stay healthy.

Hardman developing isn't going to negate the need for another WR because he's NOT THAT TYPE OF RECEIVER. All of our big-bodied, blocking WR's are free agents. I don't know how many times it has been said but you can't just plug Hardman into Watkins' slot and move forward. It won't work.

They're going to always need more WR's. That's the price to pay for having an offense like this.

[htismaqe]

Exactly.

The guy is clearly losing the confidence of his coaches if WRs like Robinson and Pringle are getting more snaps than him.

Wrong. It's called personnel packages. When they're run-heavy, Hardman doesn't play as much. It's a simple as that.

[dlphg9]

I'm not a Hardman fan boy whatsoever and he shouldn't be returning kickoffs, but he definitely wasn't in as much because he's not a very good blocker.

Yes Hardman was a 2nd rounder, but he was a project and there arent many players with his kind of speed. He is gonna take time to learn to run all the routes better and Andy and Brett have faith that he can learn those routes. If he does become as good as Sammy, Robinson, or Pringle at running routes then he becomes a number 1b receiver right behind Hill. Hill is a legit top 3 WR (I think he would be the consensus top WR in the game if we didn't have so many other badasses) and Hardman will become a top 15-20 WR if he develops into a better route runner.

[htismaqe]

Keep those down-votes coming.

I might just post some stats to show you how wrong you really are. :D

[Chris Meck]

smh.

Overreaction Planet.

[Titty Meat]

What's up with Hardman? Hes 2nd in TD receptions for all WRs on the roster

[JakeF]

Watkins, Robinson, AND Pringle are free agents after this year. I don't see how there's a way they can bring Watkins back for more money when he can't stay healthy.

Hardman developing isn't going to negate the need for another WR because he's NOT THAT TYPE OF RECEIVER. All of our big-bodied, blocking WR's are free agents. I don't know how many times it has been said but you can't just plug Hardman into Watkins' slot and move forward. It won't work.

They're going to always need more WR's. That's the price to pay for having an offense like this.
They shouldn't bring any of those guys back.

Watkins - too much money
Robinson - not good enough
Pringle - unless they give him a real chance we won't know what he can really do.

Can Pringle return kicks better than Hardman? Somebody has to be able to.

[Red Dawg]

I rather give Pringle a start over Hardman and see what happens.

[JakeF]

I rather give Pringle a start over Hardman and see what happens.Agreed.

I've seen enough of Hardmen tbh.

[Red Dawg]

Agreed.

I've seen enough of Hardmen tbh.

I doubt they do. Seems like a move you make in the off season at OTAs. Hardman is still learning but it just feels like Pringle may be better.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Hardman sucks. He's a one trick pony. Easily replaceable. Horrible returner as well.

I know that's hard for some of you to accept but it's reality.

[htismaqe]

I rather give Pringle a start over Hardman and see what happens.

Not gonna happen. They don't play the same role in the offense.

[Red Dawg]

Hardman sucks. He's a one trick pony. Easily replaceable. Horrible returner as well.

I know that's hard for some of you to accept but it's reality.

I can accept it. He's fast but not some bad ass. He didn't do shit in the playoffs nor the SB.

[htismaqe]

Hardman sucks. He's a one trick pony. Easily replaceable. Horrible returner as well.

I know that's hard for some of you to accept but it's reality.

The reality is the NFL has this thing called personnel packages.

[htismaqe]

I can accept it. He's fast but not some bad ass. He didn't do shit in the playoffs nor the SB.

ROFL

He had a 58-yard return when the Chiefs were down 24-0 to the Texans. The Chiefs scored on that drive and ended up scoring 41 points.

Look, Hardman has a lot of warts. He needs to get better.

But you guys live in a fantasy world where you just ignore the things you don't want to see.

[Red Dawg]

The reality is the NFL has this thing called personnel packages.

What's in the package? Free NFL stuff. How do I order one?

[-King-]

The reality is the NFL has this thing called personnel packages.

Sure but I don't think a 2nd round WR should need to be in specific packages or be only able to replace one player in an offense. I can understand him not being as physical or being able to block like Watkins. That's fine. But the fact that he still seems to only be able to run a few routes and jet sweeps packages sucks. I'm happy that he's liable to make big plays every once in a while but I'd trade that in all day for consistency and for him to be a true threat in the offense.

[SuperBowl4]

MH is just sandbagging. Saving himself 4 the playoffs.:thumb:

[Titty Meat]

What were the chances Red Dawg, Jake F, and PA Chiefs fan post back to back to back with all really bad takes?

[Megatron96]

What were the chances Red Dawg, Jake F, and PA Chiefs fan post back to back to back with all really bad takes?

Apparently 100%.

[htismaqe]

Sure but I don't think a 2nd round WR should need to be in specific packages or be only able to replace one player in an offense. I can understand him not being as physical or being able to block like Watkins. That's fine. But the fact that he still seems to only be able to run a few routes and jet sweeps packages sucks. I'm happy that he's liable to make big plays every once in a while but I'd trade that in all day for consistency and for him to be a true threat in the offense.

That's just the thing.

The number of snaps Hardman is getting is DIRECTLY related to running the ball.

Since nobody seems to want to accept this fact, here's some food for thought.

Week 1 - Texans - 32 passes, 34 rushes
Hardman - 19 total snaps, 11 on pass plays, 8 on run plays
Robinson - 33 total snaps, 17 on pass plays, 16 on run plays

Week 2 - Chargers - 47 passes, 22 rushes
Hardman - 46 total snaps, 32 on pass plays, 14 on run plays
Robinson - 43 total snaps, 33 on pass plays, 10 on run plays

Week 3 - Ravens - 42 passes, 31 rushes
Hardman - 27 total snaps, 20 on pass plays, 8 on run plays
Robinson - 41 total snaps, 24 on pass plays, 17 on run plays

Week 4 - Patriots - 29 passes, 25 rushes
Hardman - 25 total snaps, 15 on pass plays, 10 on run plays
Robinson - 23 total snaps, 15 on pass plays, 8 on run plays

Week 5 - Raiders - 43 passes, 20 rushes
Hardman - 47 total snaps, 33 on pass plays, 14 on run plays
Robinson - 47 total snaps, 34 on pass plays, 13 on run plays

Week 6 - Buffalo - 27 passes, 46 rushes
Hardman - 29 total snaps, 19 on pass plays, 10 on run plays
Robinson - 69 total snaps, 27 on pass plays, 42 on run plays
(incidentally Robinson had more snaps than Tyreek Hill against the Bills, which further proves my point)

The stats are pretty freaking clear. I'm 100% correct about this.

[-King-]

That's just the thing.

The number of snaps Hardman is getting is DIRECTLY related to running the ball.

Since nobody seems to want to accept this fact, here's some food for thought.

Week 1 - Texans - 32 passes, 34 rushes
Hardman - 19 total snaps, 11 on pass plays, 8 on run plays
Robinson - 33 total snaps, 17 on pass plays, 16 on run plays

Week 2 - Chargers - 47 passes, 22 rushes
Hardman - 46 total snaps, 32 on pass plays, 14 on run plays
Robinson - 43 total snaps, 33 on pass plays, 10 on run plays

Week 3 - Ravens - 42 passes, 31 rushes
Hardman - 27 total snaps, 20 on pass plays, 8 on run plays
Robinson - 41 total snaps, 24 on pass plays, 17 on run plays

Week 4 - Patriots - 29 passes, 25 rushes
Hardman - 25 total snaps, 15 on pass plays, 10 on run plays
Robinson - 23 total snaps, 15 on pass plays, 8 on run plays

Week 5 - Raiders - 43 passes, 20 rushes
Hardman - 47 total snaps, 33 on pass plays, 14 on run plays
Robinson - 47 total snaps, 34 on pass plays, 13 on run plays

Week 6 - Buffalo - 27 passes, 46 rushes
Hardman - 29 total snaps, 19 on pass plays, 10 on run plays
Robinson - 69 total snaps, 27 on pass plays, 42 on run plays
(incidentally Robinson had more snaps than Tyreek Hill against the Bills, which further proves my point)

The stats are pretty freaking clear. I'm 100% correct about this.

So...Robinson has more snaps even when just accounting just pass snaps? I don't get how this helps your point.

[htismaqe]

So...Robinson has more snaps even when just accounting just pass snaps? I don't get how this helps your point.

Robinson gets more snaps when we run the ball more. It's pretty simple to see.

[Coach]

Robinson gets more snaps when we run the ball more. It's pretty simple to see.

Because Robinson is a better blocker, which is true.

[htismaqe]

Because Robinson is a better blocker, which is true.

No, it's because Hardman sucks. Get with the program.

[Coach]

No, it's because Hardman sucks. Get with the program.

Oh I'm sorry.

He sucks.

Have we cut this piece of shit yet?


(Am I doing this right?)

[Titty Meat]

In the last 22 regular season games

Watkins has 4 touchdowns
Hardman has 10 touchdowns

In the post season
Watkins 1 TD
Hardman 0

You guys what is wrong with Sammy Watkins!?!?

[Titty Meat]

He also has 8 less catches than Hill and 2 less touchdowns this year. More touchdowns than Hopkins/Julio Jones combined through 6 games.

Plays way less snaps. What the hell are you guys even arguing here?

[Megatron96]

In the last 22 regular season games

Watkins has 4 touchdowns
Hardman has 10 touchdowns

In the post season
Watkins 1 TD
Hardman 0

You guys what is wrong with Sammy Watkins!?!?

This is good!

:LOL:
:thumb:

[htismaqe]

He also has 8 less catches than Hill and 2 less touchdowns this year. More touchdowns than Hopkins/Julio Jones combined through 6 games.

Plays way less snaps. What the hell are you guys even arguing here?

What a waste of a 2nd round pick.

[Megatron96]

He also has 8 less catches than Hill and 2 less touchdowns this year. More touchdowns than Hopkins/Julio Jones combined through 6 games.

Plays way less snaps. What the hell are you guys even arguing here?

They want to be able to jerk off more to Hardman running around on their TVs, dontcha know. They're not attracted to DRob/Watkins/whoever.:D

[Titty Meat]

What a waste of a 2nd round pick.

It's like some people read his scouting report and are shocked hes not the route runner of Jerry Rice:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824055-mecole-hardman-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-kansas-city-chiefs-pick

The staff is obviously utilizing his strengths and his production is fine. This is the 2nd thread made about him in as many weeks. It's really a puzzling argument.

[Megatron96]

It's like some people read his scouting report and are shocked hes not the route runner of Jerry Rice:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824055-mecole-hardman-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-kansas-city-chiefs-pick

The staff is obviously utilizing his strengths and his production is fine. This is the 2nd thread made about him in as many weeks. It's really a puzzling argument.

CPers complaining? What? When?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Hardman sucks. He's a one trick pony. Easily replaceable. Horrible returner as well.

I know that's hard for some of you to accept but it's reality.

This thread almost makes me pine for those that focus on "bad play calls" or "poor coaching."

[-King-]

No, it's because Hardman sucks. Get with the program.

I don't think he sucks. But he's not playing how any of us thought he'd play in his second year. I'm 100% sure even you thought he'd be able to take over for Watkins this year once it was clear Hill was staying on the team. I mean you're in this very thread arguing that he CANT be our WR2 even with our current #2 injured so I don't get how you can be surprised that people are disappointed with his development.

I'm sure you wouldn't have predicted and would have been ok with the fact that he's be on pace for 517 yards right now.

[htismaqe]

I don't think he sucks. But he's not playing how any of us thought he'd play in his second year. I'm 100% sure even you thought he'd be able to take over for Watkins this year once it was clear Hill was staying on the team.

I'm sure you wouldn't have predicted and would have been ok with the fact that he's be on pace for 517 yards right now.

I never thought he was going to replace Watkins. I can tell by looking at him that he's not even remotely the same kind of player.

[htismaqe]

By the way, how did anybody think he was going to play in his 2nd year considering he was super raw coming out and had virtually no offseason?

People have very unrealistic expectations for these guys.

[flinchfree]

I don't think he sucks. But he's not playing how any of us thought he'd play in his second year. I'm 100% sure even you thought he'd be able to take over for Watkins this year once it was clear Hill was staying on the team.

I'm sure you wouldn't have predicted and would have been ok with the fact that he's be on pace for 517 yards right now.

Sammy Watkins was drafted 4th overall in the 2014 draft.
At various times in his career he's been an absolute unstoppable beast.
His injuries have largely interrupted his continued ascendancy into the highest tiers of receiver.
He's huge, he's quick, he plays angry, runs excellent routes, sticky hands, and has enormous heart and courage on the football field.

Yeh, sure, 2nd year 2nd round pick Mecole Hardman should have been able to just take over this year from Watkins.:drool:

[-King-]

I never thought he was going to replace Watkins. I can tell by looking at him that he's not even remotely the same kind of player.

So just by that token, why are you surprised that people are disappointed that the Chiefs top pick last year can't even be our #2 even with the current #2 injured? If he was as good of a WR as we all hoped he'd be in year 2, Reid would find more ways to get him more reps and more snaps, no matter how different he is from Sammy Watkins.

[-King-]

Sammy Watkins was drafted 4th overall in the 2014 draft.
At various times in his career he's been an absolute unstoppable beast.
His injuries have largely interrupted his continued ascendancy into the highest tiers of receiver.
He's huge, he's quick, he plays angry, runs excellent routes, sticky hands, and has enormous heart and courage on the football field.

Yeh, sure, 2nd year 2nd round pick Mecole Hardman should have been able to just take over this year from Watkins.:drool:

I mean...yeah. There were plenty of people that thought last year was Sammy's last year with us. Especially like you say, he's extremely injury prone. If Hardman had developed better, it would have been the right choice to let Sammy go and run Hardman as our WR2.

[htismaqe]

So just by that token, why are you surprised that people are disappointed that the Chiefs top pick last year can't even be our #2 even with the current #2 injured? If he was as good of a WR as we all hoped he'd be in year 2, Reid would find more ways to get him more reps and more snaps, no matter how different he is from Sammy Watkins.

It's been explained literally dozens of times in this thread.

It isn't worth discussing anymore.

If you can't understand at this point why Hardman isn't playing in place of Watkins, no amount of explaining it is going to get through to you.

[kccrow]

I never saw him as much more than a slot receiver when he was drafted, and that's exactly what his role is and will likely continue to be. Unless you're lining up in 11, 10, 20, or 0 personnel, the likelihood of him seeing the field is minuscule. Even running out of 11 personnel regularly in a matchup, I'd put him being on the field at 50% and that's only to keep the defense from identifying a trend. I'd be curious to know if anyone has to the actual number of snaps he's playing by personnel grouping.

[-King-]

It's been explained literally dozens of times in this thread.

It isn't worth discussing anymore.

If you can't understand at this point why Hardman isn't playing in place of Watkins, no amount of explaining it is going to get through to you.

I get it. Reid isn't an idiot though. He isn't a one track kind of guy. He knows how to adjust to talent. If Hardman had the talent right now to be a good WR2, he wouldn't get less snaps than Robinson just because Robinson is bigger and more physical. Reid would just adjust to take better advantage of Hardmans strengths and make the offense reliant on having a Sammy type WR.

[flinchfree]

I mean...yeah. There were plenty of people that thought last year was Sammy's last year with us. Especially like you say, he's extremely injury prone. If Hardman had developed better, it would have been the right choice to let Sammy go and run Hardman as our WR2.

I think all you're really saying is he hasn't met the expectations you'd HOPED he would meet. I get it, we all hope every draft pick is Reek and just explodes from the jump or close to it.
But overthinking it for a second year player on a team loaded with offensive weapons that a QB and his coach have trust in in the biggest of moments - is tough. They don't feel the need to showcase MH, they feel the need to find the quickest point to winning. At this minute, against the opposition defenses they scout week to week, he isn't getting much force feeding and I don't see any problem with that.
The team is just traveling right now and still winning. With a mish mash of substitute OL no less.
Think you'll see everyone gearing up as we turn the corner into the second half of the season.
If Mecole can't find a consistent role by the end of the year, he'll be given work to do by the staff over the off season and he'll either get there or he won't.
Either way, WE'RE STILL THE CHIEFS AND WE HAVE PATRICK MAHOMES.:thumb:.

[Titty Meat]

I don't think he sucks. But he's not playing how any of us thought he'd play in his second year. I'm 100% sure even you thought he'd be able to take over for Watkins this year once it was clear Hill was staying on the team. I mean you're in this very thread arguing that he CANT be our WR2 even with our current #2 injured so I don't get how you can be surprised that people are disappointed with his development.

I'm sure you wouldn't have predicted and would have been ok with the fact that he's be on pace for 517 yards right now.

517? Terrible. Hes not even the #2 WR. Watkins has been the #2 here season 1 he had 519 yards last year he had 673.

Conleys career high as a Chief 44 catches 530 yards.
Maclin 2016 44 catches 596 yards.

Hardman in 22 games has as many TDs as Maclin did as a Chief and more touchdowns than Conleys whole career as a Chief.

You keep arguing snaps which has already been explained. His production hasnt been a problem so how can you even begin to question the pick?

Again what the hell are we even arguing here? His production has been just as good as any other Chief not named Hill.

[kccrow]

517? Terrible. Hes not even the #2 WR. Watkins has been the #2 here season 1 he had 519 yards last year he had 673.

Again what the hell are we even arguing here? His production has been just as good as any other Chief not named Hill.

I agree that he's adequately productive in his role. I don't foresee an opportunity for him to change that role though, really, unless something happened with Hill but even that could be pushing it. That may be why many are a little upset at this point, or so it seems, that the Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on a player that may never be more than a slot option.

[Titty Meat]

I agree that he's adequately productive in his role. I don't foresee an opportunity for him to change that role though, really, unless something happened with Hill but even that could be pushing it. That may be why many are a little upset at this point, or so it seems, that the Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on a player that may never be more than a slot option.

If hes a pro bowl returner and gets you 5-10 TDs that's great in Reids system regardless of where he lines up at.

[TimeForWasp]

Just listening to Hardman talk, He seems to be a little slow between the ears. He will be worth his keep when he finally has his eureka moment.

Just my opinion.

[htismaqe]

517? Terrible. Hes not even the #2 WR. Watkins has been the #2 here season 1 he had 519 yards last year he had 673.

Conleys career high as a Chief 44 catches 530 yards.
Maclin 2016 44 catches 596 yards.

Hardman in 22 games has as many TDs as Maclin did as a Chief and more touchdowns than Conleys whole career as a Chief.

You keep arguing snaps which has already been explained. His production hasnt been a problem so how can you even begin to question the pick?

Again what the hell are we even arguing here? His production has been just as good as any other Chief not named Hill.

It isn't worth your time man. People's expectations are way out of whack. It's CP, let them complain.

[Hoover]

The good news about Hardman is we still have two more years on his rookie contract!

All is good.

[-King-]

517? Terrible. Hes not even the #2 WR. Watkins has been the #2 here season 1 he had 519 yards last year he had 673.

Conleys career high as a Chief 44 catches 530 yards.
Maclin 2016 44 catches 596 yards.

Hardman in 22 games has as many TDs as Maclin did as a Chief and more touchdowns than Conleys whole career as a Chief.

You keep arguing snaps which has already been explained. His production hasnt been a problem so how can you even begin to question the pick?

Again what the hell are we even arguing here? His production has been just as good as any other Chief not named Hill.

He's also our highest drafted receiver. Excuse me for expecting more production. Excuse me for wanting him to get more playing time in year two when Sammy is injured. Guess that's too high of expectations for our top pick last year.

I don't get how "He can't be our WR2 because he's not big and physical" is really a good defense of a 2nd round pick.

[O.city]

I don’t think he’s ever gonna develop into more than, say, what Desean Jackson is. Which is fine, but from a 2nd rounder you’d kinda hope he’s more rounded but Jackson when healthy is a great weapon

[Dante84]

Just listening to Hardman talk, He seems to be a little slow between the ears. He will be worth his keep when he finally has his eureka moment.

Just my opinion.

I think he's super immature based on how he interacts on social, and anytime the camera is around.

Chris Jones is pretty silly, too, but I think he just likes being goofy; Hardman has a bit of a narcissistic, look-at-me flare.

[htismaqe]

He's also our highest drafted receiver. Excuse me for expecting more production. Excuse me for wanting him to get more playing time in year two when Sammy is injured. Guess that's too high of expectations for our top pick last year.

I don't get how "He can't be our WR2 because he's not big and physical" is really a good defense of a 2nd round pick.

Would you take James Washington from the Steelers? He was picked around the same pick a year before Hardman.

[CupidStunt]

I don’t think he’s ever gonna develop into more than, say, what Desean Jackson is. Which is fine, but from a 2nd rounder you’d kinda hope he’s more rounded but Jackson when healthy is a great weapon

Dude, if you can get DeSean Jackson with a later 2nd round pick you take that all day. No wonder people are complaining.

[Kiimo]

It's been explained literally dozens of times in this thread.

It isn't worth discussing anymore.

If you can't understand at this point why Hardman isn't playing in place of Watkins, no amount of explaining it is going to get through to you.

I didn't read the thread but what's up with Mecole Hardman?

[Shields68]

My take is that teams are playing deep. Dropping 7-8 in coverage. Forcing the Chiefs to throw short over the middle. They need wr to find soft spots in coverage and to make catches in traffic. Which is really not Tyreke or Hardmans game.

[Hydrae]

He's also our highest drafted receiver. Excuse me for expecting more production. Excuse me for wanting him to get more playing time in year two when Sammy is injured. Guess that's too high of expectations for our top pick last year.

I don't get how "He can't be our WR2 because he's not big and physical" is really a good defense of a 2nd round pick.

It has been said many times over the years that it takes a WR 3 years to really "get" an Andy Reid offense. Hardman is only in year 2 and that without any real offseason to help him progress. If he still looks lost at times next year, then we can revisit whether we should be concerned or not.

Now, as to returning kicks, some questions may need to be asked of Toub.

[O.city]

Dude, if you can get DeSean Jackson with a later 2nd round pick you take that all day. No wonder people are complaining.

I just don't think people are really being level about it either way. He's not gonna be as good as Tyreek. Ever. Tyreek is a HOF'er.

Hardman likely won't ever become a well rounded WR that runs every route. If he is Jackson and excels at running goes and posts and such, thats perfectly fine.

[Deberg_1990]

Hardman for John Ross straight up?

[PHOG]

It has been said many times over the years that it takes a WR 3 years to really "get" an Andy Reid offense. Hardman is only in year 2 and that without any real offseason to help him progress. If he still looks lost at times next year, then we can revisit whether we should be concerned or not.

Now, as to returning kicks, some questions may need to be asked of Toub.
I always thought that was the norm for any offense, not just Reids, with a few exceptions.

[Titty Meat]

He's also our highest drafted receiver. Excuse me for expecting more production. Excuse me for wanting him to get more playing time in year two when Sammy is injured. Guess that's too high of expectations for our top pick last year.

I don't get how "He can't be our WR2 because he's not big and physical" is really a good defense of a 2nd round pick.

He has 12 touchdowns in 22 games that's not productive?

[Shaid]

I'd like them to extend Pringle now before he's done anything so you get him for peanuts. He's clearly got at least enough value for a 5th WR and I think there's more ability there that we just haven't utilized yet.

[ThaVirus]

I don’t think he’s ever gonna develop into more than, say, what Desean Jackson is. Which is fine, but from a 2nd rounder you’d kinda hope he’s more rounded but Jackson when healthy is a great weapon

Dude, if you can get DeSean Jackson with a later 2nd round pick you take that all day. No wonder people are complaining.

This is actually a good way to look at it.

In his prime, Desean Jackson was one of the most prolific deep threats of all time. Looking at his career stats, he's crossed the 10,000 receiving yards mark, 55 receiving TDs, dangerous return man. He never really developed into a complete WR, but I suppose you'd have to be happy if Hardman's career production ended up looking like Jackson's..

[htismaqe]

Hardman for John Ross straight up?

ROFL

[dlphg9]

Hardman for John Ross straight up?

God damn I'd be pissed lol.

[wazu]

DeSean Jackson's second year in the league he had 1,156 yards and 9 TDs. Would we be happy if Mecole is DeSean Jackson? Of course we would. But I've seen zero signs that make me believe that's the case. Right now the closer example for me might be Tedd Ginn.

[htismaqe]

DeSean Jackson's second year in the league he had 1,156 yards and 9 TDs. Would we be happy if Mecole is DeSean Jackson? Of course we would. But I've seen zero signs that make me believe that's the case. Right now the closer example for me might be Tedd Ginn.

Would you take James Washington?

[Red Dawg]

Hardman is Jackson? No chance in hell.

[wazu]

Would you take James Washington?

They seem to be on similar career arcs so far. My reason for comparing to Ginn was trying to guess what his overall career path looks like. Washington seems like he has the potential to be more than what he's shown. Still trying to figure out if Mecole does as well.

[Megatron96]

Pringle was getting all the snaps down the stretch. Is he in the doghouse? (I'm only partially asking because I started him in fantasy thinking he'd get some looks with Watkins out)

Seems like he's regressed a lot this season, unfortunately...

Pringle got more snaps at the end of the game because he's a better run-blocker than Hardman, due partly because Pringle is simply bigger and stronger, and partly because Pringle has a lot more practice run-blocking.

People need to stop trying to read a bunch of stuff into how the end of one game went.

Look, try this: go on your playstation or whatever and put Hill and Hardman (stock, no putting your 'hometeam' version of Hardman in)as WR1 and WR2 and then run the ball on every down. Do this as a coach; don't use your special little thumb moves to cheat. Do this against PIT or some team that features physical DBs. Hardman will probably get raped every time, because he simply isn't a big physical guy.

Couple that with the fact Hardman doesn't have hardly any experience run-blocking as a WR anyway.

Put the BUF game out of your minds. It was an outlier game, because it was literally raining small animals out there, it was like 40 degrees and windy. We ran the ball 50 times. That was not anything like an average Chiefs game. If Andy runs the ball 35+ times it's news.

Hardman's role is to be a deep threat, similar to Hill; they even run the same kinds of routes. The difference is that Hill has the experience and skill set to be able to run shorter routes and over the middle because he's had time to work on it, in particular the ability to beat man press, which took him some time to develop.

Hardman hasn't gotten there yet. He doesn't consistently beat man press; he gets jammed at the line a lot which means his timing is put off (among other things). Now add in just how fast Mahomes makes his reads, in fact sometimes he reads through too fast right? So Pat looks over at Hardman or where he's supposed to be, and he's either not there (at the break) or he's tightly covered because he didn't get off the line efficiently. Now, maybe in half a second hardman gets wide open, but Pat doesn't wait sometimes. So Pat just moves on to the next read. I am not blaming Patrick, stop it.

Hardman is running routes better at a fundamental level, but he still has to work on the nuances of the position, things like beating man press at the snap using a combination of his speed/quickness and learning to use his hands, like Hill has learned to do to beat DBs that try to get physical at the line. And then he needs to work on some other things. Those are things that just take time. He's not dumb; where do people get this stuff?

He's inexperienced. It's the beginning of his second year in the league. It's the start of just his fourth season as a WR at any level. In spite of all of the above, he was selected to a Pro Bowl already. He's been about as productive a rookie WR as the league saw last season.

But he's never going to be a replacement for Watkins. Get that out of your minds. Unless he gets a few inches taller, puts on 20 lbs. and someone plugs him into that Matrix machine that just gives you decades of training and experience in 10 seconds, that's not a thing. They don't play the same role on the offense.

Seriously, by the end of next season, barring injury or whatever, Hardman is going to be a very dangerous WR.

So just be patient. Hardman's going to be fine. You can't make him into a prime Desean Jackson (or whoever you want to use) in a couple seasons.

[Red Dawg]

Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.

[htismaqe]

They seem to be on similar career arcs so far. My reason for comparing to Ginn was trying to guess what his overall career path looks like. Washington seems like he has the potential to be more than what he's shown. Still trying to figure out if Mecole does as well.

Mecole actually has a slightly better trajectory than Washington. Washington averages about one half of a catch more per game but they both average about 33 yards per game and Mecole has more TD's despite having played 12 less games.

I think people just need to temper their expectations a bit. Look at the guys that were picked around Hardman. He's clearly superior to Arcega-Whiteside and Isabella. Parris Campbell has only played in 9 games.

The clear outliers are AJ Brown and DK Metcalf. Those guys are the best WR's on their teams pretty much by default. Neither one of them would have been that here with Tyreek and Watson here, so really there's no comparison there.

[htismaqe]

Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.

He's the #1 WR on a team with very little else at the position.

He wouldn't have those kind of stats in KC. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[Valiant]

Seems to me he is hurt or banged up right now from the way he runs. Doesn't look like he has his normal zip.

[Megatron96]

Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.

Veach only missed if he was supposed to draft a Calvin Johnson clone, and then drafted Hardman thinking he'd grow another 5-6 inches and put on 20 lbs. before the season started. That'd be really stupid, and Veach should've gotten fired for something like that.

He wasn't looking for Megatron when he drafted Hardman. It's that simple really.

[kevrunner]

He's the #1 WR on a team with very little else at the position.

He wouldn't have those kind of stats in KC. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Pretty sure Tyler Lockett could start on the Chiefs. Metcalf, Lockett, Tyreek and Kielce, that would be awesome.

[OKchiefs]

People can make excuses all they want. Taking Hardman just because they needed a poor man's Tyreek Hill was a panic move. They could have taken a better all around WR like Metcalf, McLaurin, or Johnson. We're most likely left with a gadget player and deep threat. Maybe he develops eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it. I believe I read somewhere that Hardman has somewhere in the range of 300 yards over his past 16 games. That is simply not good production, especially in an offense that throws as much as we do. People can keep coming up with excuses, but it's going to be pretty telling when a FA, a rookie, or Pringle gets the #2 job over Hardman.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

He was drafted to be Tyreek but Tyreek has not missed a snap.

[Deberg_1990]

People can make excuses all they want. Taking Hardman just because they needed a poor man's Tyreek Hill was a panic move. They could have taken a better all around WR like Metcalf, McLaurin, or Johnson. We're most likely left with a gadget player and deep threat. Maybe he develops eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it. I believe I read somewhere that Hardman has somewhere in the range of 300 yards over his past 16 games. That is simply not good production, especially in an offense that throws as much as we do. People can keep coming up with excuses, but it's going to be pretty telling when a FA, a rookie, or Pringle gets the #2 job over Hardman.

The Chiefs are winning and are loaded with talent right now. If he never develops beyond what he is now, then i trust the Chiefs to find someone whos better. Im just not that concerned about it right now.

[kcclone]

People can make excuses all they want. Taking Hardman just because they needed a poor man's Tyreek Hill was a panic move. They could have taken a better all around WR like Metcalf, McLaurin, or Johnson. We're most likely left with a gadget player and deep threat. Maybe he develops eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it. I believe I read somewhere that Hardman has somewhere in the range of 300 yards over his past 16 games. That is simply not good production, especially in an offense that throws as much as we do. People can keep coming up with excuses, but it's going to be pretty telling when a FA, a rookie, or Pringle gets the #2 job over Hardman.


Wait, did you miss the part where we won the F’ing Super Bowl last year?

[scho63]

Why have the Chiefs Pumped the Brakes on Mecole Hardman?

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/28966/why-have-the-kansas-city-chiefs-pumped-the-brakes-on-mecole-hardman

Carcosa: a man ahead of his time. :clap:

[htismaqe]

The Chiefs are winning and are loaded with talent right now. If he never develops beyond what he is now, then i trust the Chiefs to find someone whos better. Im just not that concerned about it right now.

Wait, did you miss the part where we won the F’ing Super Bowl last year?

QFT.

It's like 2015 all over again.

[htismaqe]

Why have the Chiefs Pumped the Brakes on Mecole Hardman?

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/28966/why-have-the-kansas-city-chiefs-pumped-the-brakes-on-mecole-hardman

Carcosa: a man ahead of his time. :clap:

Funny.

The article says pretty much exactly what we've all been saying. He's not Watkins. He never will be Watkins.

[kcclone]

Why have the Chiefs Pumped the Brakes on Mecole Hardman?

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/28966/why-have-the-kansas-city-chiefs-pumped-the-brakes-on-mecole-hardman

Carcosa: a man ahead of his time. :clap:

Fortunately Adam Teicher is a clown, so this will probably be the turning point for Hardman’s season.

[TLO]

Hardman seems nice

[Best22]

ROFL

[bigjosh]

Ill eat a fat plate of crow. Im full retard in this thread.

[carcosa]

He's good now

[Pitt Gorilla]

Was anyone really dumb enough to think something was wrong with him?

FFS

[Megatron96]

Was anyone really dumb enough to think something was wrong with him?

FFS

CP=overreaction. Think it's in the forum rules.

[staylor26]

Like I said:

JFC the same idiots that have been bitching about CEH have turned their attention to Hardman.

When the gameplan is run the ball down their fucking throat, you aren’t going to see much out of Hill and Hardman.

[-King-]

He's running more routes in this game than I've ever seen him run. Hopefully that's a sign of what's to come

[htismaqe]

And now he's bringing in passes from Henne too. :D

[neech]

Oh no.

[Hammock Parties]

on pace for 44 rec, 700 yards and 6 TD

[TomBarndtsTwin]

He good.

[Megatron96]

Hardman had himself a pretty nice day.

I was impressed with his route running. He actually had a couple pretty nice routes where he broke down the defender and made himself available on time. I think he's making some progress.

[Titty Meat]

Like I said:

Meant to prop

[JakeF]

Hardman looks like he's getting ready to be a legit #2 receiver the last few games. He's routes have looked smooth and his hands have been consistent. We need him to be ready next year so we can dump Watkin's big salary. It's good to see him progressing.

[R Clark]

Nothing wrong with him at all but he had a drop today that Sammy would have caught. He needs to clean that shit up

[htismaqe]

Nothing wrong with him at all but he had a drop today that Sammy would have caught. He needs to clean that shit up

Sammy has a drop every game that Sammy would have caught. Not concerned.

[WhiteWhale]

This is one of those threads where someone tries to be 'first' at dumping on a player.

Long term, it's almost always a faceplant.

[-King-]

This is one of those threads where someone tries to be 'first' at dumping on a player.

Long term, it's almost always a faceplant.

I tried to bump the frank clark thread to hopefully cause that same affect but it didn't work. I think I'll try again.

[ChiefsFanatic]

His TD today reminded me of Tyreek's TD against the Colts in the playoffs. Both plays looked like the defense was in slo-mo, and Hardman and Tyreek were at 1.25x speed.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Toad]

That TD was impressive. No one laid a hand on him.

[BigBeauford]

That TD was impressive. No one laid a hand on him.

He has very good vision to go with his speed. He's had numerous YAC touchdowns where he's running through what looks like a place where he should be tackled, and he makes it out unscathed.

[PAChiefsGuy]

He did great hopefully he keeps it up and proves haters wrong.

[keg in kc]

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not a big focus in the offense the latter half of the season. People will complain that we're not seeing more of him against the easier schedule, and then long plays again in January.

[KChiefs1]

He had a good day for once.

Still not a fan. I’d rather have DJ Metcalf. Metcalf will be in his way to the HOF while Mecole will be asking if you want fries with that in 5 years.

[ljmhawk]

He had a good day for once.

Still not a fan. I’d rather have DJ Metcalf. Metcalf will be in his way to the HOF while Mecole will be asking if you want fries with that in 5 years.

front offices miss on players every year. who cares. we don’t have metcalf. chiefs are fine

[ThaVirus]

He had a good day for once.

Still not a fan. I’d rather have DJ Metcalf. Metcalf will be in his way to the HOF while Mecole will be asking if you want fries with that in 5 years.

LMAO Deanthony Thomas has made it 6+ years in the league thus far and your prediction is that Mecole will be out of the league by the time he's 28?

You made a comment about Mahomes being figured out after the first drive in the Bills game thread last week so maybe you should chill with the hot takes, bud.

[Otter]

The only gripe I've ever had with Hardman was that he would stop running once his pre-planned route was over and wouldn't give Patrick the ability to improvise. He's a young buck with lots of potential.

[staylor26]

He had a good day for once.

Still not a fan. I’d rather have DJ Metcalf. Metcalf will be in his way to the HOF while Mecole will be asking if you want fries with that in 5 years.

What a stupid fucking take from one of CP’s worst posters.

Good god :facepalm:

[Megatron96]

The only gripe I've ever had with Hardman was that he would stop running once his pre-planned route was over and wouldn't give Patrick the ability to improvise. He's a young buck with lots of potential.

This. Now he's young and inexperienced so I've given him a pass, but yesterday he actually improvised his route correctly at least once, so at least he's improving that part of his game. He's going to be fine.

[wazu]

Did Hardman get hurt yesterday? Not seeing any mention in here but thought he had some groin injury or something that looked concerning at the time yesterday.

[DaFace]

Did Hardman get hurt yesterday? Not seeing any mention in here but thought he had some groin injury or something that looked concerning at the time yesterday.

Whatever it was, he's fine. Andy had "no injuries to report" in his presser, and Mecole himself did a presser as well.

[penguinz]

LMAO Deanthony Thomas has made it 6+ years in the league thus far and your prediction is that Mecole will be out of the league by the time he's 28?

You made a comment about Mahomes being figured out after the first drive in the Bills game thread last week so maybe you should chill with the hot takes, bud.

What a stupid ****ing take from one of CP’s worst posters.

Good god :facepalm:General rule of this place seems to be if a poster has a number in their handle it is a high chance they are a moron.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Whatever it was, he's fine. Andy had "no injuries to report" in his presser, and Mecole himself did a presser as well.

I mean, that's the best news we could have. 1) win that stupid game 2) stay healthy
We did both, thank the Lord.

[kcclone]

Hardman’s stats look very similar to the following:

J. Jeudy, AJ Brown, Juju Smith-Schuster and Claypool. Everyone seems to love those guys, so I think he’s holding his own in year 2, considering he plays with Tyreek, Kelce, Sammy, Drob and CEH who are also fighting for touches.

[WhiteWhale]

I mean, that's the best news we could have. 1) win that stupid game 2) stay healthy
We did both, thank the Lord.

Especially with G-wills defense diving at everyone's knees.

My biggest worry was injuries because the man coaches cheap shots.

They straight tried to end Bell's season.

[chop]

Hardman’s stats look very similar to the following:

J. Jeudy, AJ Brown, Juju Smith-Schuster and Claypool. Everyone seems to love those guys, so I think he’s holding his own in year 2, considering he plays with Tyreek, Kelce, Sammy, Drob and CEH who are also fighting for touches.


I'm not so sure you should be comparing him to Brown. Brown has better stats and he's played fewer games. Brown looks like he's going to be a star.

[KChiefs1]

You made a comment about Mahomes being figured out after the first drive in the Bills game thread last week so maybe you should chill with the hot takes, bud.

I never said such a thing. Show me the post where I said anything like that. :rolleyes:

I have said & still stand by it that the best way to defense Mahomes is drop 8 into coverage like the Bills did & keep the game close & hope you win at the end. You can't defense the Chiefs like the Jets did & expect to beat Mahomes & the Chiefs.

[KChiefs1]

What a stupid fucking take from one of CP’s worst posters.

Good god :facepalm:


https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUPGcg2pTMALUfsP5K/giphy.gif

[ThaVirus]

I never said such a thing. Show me the post where I said anything like that. :rolleyes:

Yes, you did. Why would I lie about that?

Mahomes has lost it.

It was fun while it lasted.

[KChiefs1]

Yes, you did. Why would I lie about that?

Jeezus Christ you are a fucking moron...are you related to staylor26?
:facepalm:

[htismaqe]

I'm not so sure you should be comparing him to Brown. Brown has better stats and he's played fewer games. Brown looks like he's going to be a star.

AJ Brown is the #1 WR in his offense. Of course he's going to have better numbers than Hardman.

[ThaVirus]

LMAO LMAO

[Megatron96]

I mean, that's the best news we could have. 1) win that stupid game 2) stay healthy
We did both, thank the Lord.

This 100%. Don’t get hurt was the big goal, no one was worried about winning.

[Megatron96]

Film review: Mecole Hardman showing signs of development

The Kansas City Chiefs passing offense had been in a little bit of a rut the past few weeks, but it broke out in a big way against the New York Jets.

One of the theories as to why the offense looked staler was the lack of a true “X” wide receiver. The Chiefs not only had to replace Sammy Watkins’ production but also his usage on third downs and as a short-to-intermediate threat. While Demarcus Robinson and Byron Pringle had seen the biggest jump in snap count since the injury, it was Mecole Hardman who was able to bust out a big game against New York.

Hardman had his best career game as a wide receiver. He finished with a career-high seven receptions, scored a touchdown and was only one yard shy (96) of his career-high. But more than production, this game was about how he was being utilized and how effective it was. The Chiefs found a way to get him involved in the passing game between the line of scrimmage and 20-plus yards downfield.

Let’s dig into this fantastic performance from Hardman and what it could mean for his development going forward.

Mecole Hardman | WR
Usage
One of the most significant sticking points in my evaluation of Hardman coming into the league was his lack of effectiveness. Some of that may have been team-driven, but it’s also about the trait and skills of the player . . .

Rest of article with film study clips link:
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2020/11/4/21547635/film-review-mecole-hardman-showing-signs-of-development

[Megatron96]

Still a ways to go, but just the fact that Andy had Mecole running these routes says something positive about his progression. Still needs to work on his feet and such, but this is a good sign for Hardman.

[staylor26]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There&#39;s a reason they call him Cheetah...<br><br>Most Rec TD of 30+ Yards - Since 2018<br><br>Tyreek Hill - 12<br>Mecole Hardman - 7<br>DeAndre Hopkins - 7<br>Tyler Lockett - 7<a href="https://twitter.com/cheetah?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@cheetah</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/uonRvLW4XF">pic.twitter.com/uonRvLW4XF</a></p>&mdash; CBS Sports HQ (@CBSSportsHQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/status/1324869540711370754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[SAGA45]

I recall reading awhile back it generaly takes WR's three years to get fully acclimated to Andy Reid's offense. So Hardman is right on (and arguably ahead) of schedule to start tapping into his full potential in this system. Definitely more big games to come.

[kcclone]

I recall reading awhile back it generaly takes WR's three years to get fully acclimated to Andy Reid's offense. So Hardman is right on (and arguably ahead) of schedule to start tapping into his full potential in this system. Definitely more big games to come.


Yes I believe that’s true. The problem for Hardman is that people expected him to be Tyreek 2.0.

But when you look at his stats, Mecole is right in line with some other very good WR’s.

[mnchiefsguy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There&#39;s a reason they call him Cheetah...<br><br>Most Rec TD of 30+ Yards - Since 2018<br><br>Tyreek Hill - 12<br>Mecole Hardman - 7<br>DeAndre Hopkins - 7<br>Tyler Lockett - 7<a href="https://twitter.com/cheetah?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@cheetah</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/uonRvLW4XF">pic.twitter.com/uonRvLW4XF</a></p>&mdash; CBS Sports HQ (@CBSSportsHQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/status/1324869540711370754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


And considering Hardeman was at Georgia in 2018 that is a pretty impressive stat.

[htismaqe]

Yes I believe that’s true. The problem for Hardman is that people expected him to be Tyreek 2.0.

But when you look at his stats, Mecole is right in line with some other very good WR’s.

He's not DK Metcalf. People have tunnel vision.

[htismaqe]

I'm gonna start calling him Meek.

We got Reek and we got Meek.

The guy that quietly shows up on Sundays and scores touchdowns.

[KChiefs1]

Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Megatron and DK are both one of a kind. <br><br>Insane numbers 🤯💪 <a href="https://twitter.com/dkm14?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dkm14</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/calvinjohnsonjr?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@calvinjohnsonjr</a> <a href="https://t.co/sX86NM3Yim">pic.twitter.com/sX86NM3Yim</a></p>&mdash; SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1333788464408526850?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>