Opposing defenses against the Chiefs

[O.city]

So we see what other teams are doing against the Chiefs. Drop a bunch of guys, take away all the deep and intermediate throws and force them to run the ball.

It's really taken Tyreek out of the equation in terms of yards and targets, which sucks.

So, what can the Chiefs do to open things back up? Is it just "run the ball until they come out of it"? Because it seems unless they can put it in the endzone more doing it, it's playing into other teams hands?

[-King-]

We don't run nearly as many screens as we used to and should run.

[O.city]

We don't run nearly as many screens as we used to and should run.

With teams playing so passive, I don't think the screen game will be as effective?

I'd like to see some short bubble screens to Hill though and get him in space.

[Shaid]

Gotta make them respect the run to open up downfield. The problem is you don't get into the big leads and teams can stick around. It's hard not to run with those looks though.

[rabblerouser]

So we see what other teams are doing against the Chiefs. Drop a bunch of guys, take away all the deep and intermediate throws and force them to run the ball.

It's really taken Tyreek out of the equation in terms of yards and targets, which sucks.

So, what can the Chiefs do to open things back up? Is it just "run the ball until they come out of it"? Because it seems unless they can put it in the endzone more doing it, it's playing into other teams hands?
Sure, run the ball down their throats.

The NFL is a copycat league, and when NFL offenses started going spread and 5 wide with lots of speed in the passing game, NFL defenses adjusted accordingly to compensate.

Nowadays, defenses are more susceptible to getting punched directly in the fucking mouth 👄. And if they just want to back up and let us control TOP and March down the field running and short passing, then they can totally try that...

As far as screens, you know Andy has a bunch. He's saving them.

[Dunerdr]

THIS O-LINE HAS TO GET RIGHT. Somehow we couldnt run against 3 man lines. If were gashing 5+ per carry against these light boxes its not much different than passing all day.

[O.city]

Gotta make them respect the run to open up downfield. The problem is you don't get into the big leads and teams can stick around. It's hard not to run with those looks though.

Sure, run the ball down their throats.

The NFL is a copycat league, and when NFL offenses started going spread and 5 wide with lots of speed in the passing game, NFL defenses adjusted accordingly to compensate.

Nowadays, defenses are more susceptible to getting punched directly in the ****ing mouth 👄. And if they just want to back up and let us control TOP and March down the field running and short passing, then they can totally try that...

As far as screens, you know Andy has a bunch. He's saving them.

You guys aren't wrong here. It's waht you've gotta do.

But as we discussed in teh game thread, it kind of plays into other teams hands in that it allows them to bend but not break and shorten the game. If they can do that and keep it close, it narrows the Chiefs margin for error.

To get them out of it, the Chiefs are gonna have to run it, then score TD's. They can't stall out.

[O.city]

Mahomes and the Chiefs passing game is so good though, I don't think teams will come out of it even if they're getting gashed.

You're gonna have to be able to throw it down the field on that somehow.

[BWillie]

THIS O-LINE HAS TO GET RIGHT. Somehow we couldnt run against 3 man lines. If were gashing 5+ per carry against these light boxes its not much different than passing all day.

NFL teams average 6.5 per pass ATTEMPT and 4.2 to 4.3 yards per carry.

If I'm a coach, I do exactly what the Bills did. LET the Chiefs run. I don't think alot of coaches have the lack of ego to do that though. To have that game plan you have to admit to yourself that you aren't as good as the Kansas City Chiefs. You utilize that gameplan to take it out of Mahomes hands, to limit possessions, and to hope the Chiefs make some freak mistakes and you are in the game at the end.

We aren't going to run that much if it isn't cold and rainy. Any QB will tell you that is the absolute worst conditions they would wish to play in. QBs like to play in the bitter cold or bitter cold + snow more than rain. The ball gets a little tacky in the snow and some QBs actually like it. In the rain it just flops around and easy to throw ducks.

[O.city]

NFL teams average 6.5 per pass ATTEMPT and 4.2 to 4.3 yards per carry.

If I'm a coach, I do exactly what the Bills did. LET the Chiefs run. I don't think alot of coaches have the lack of ego to do that though. To have that game plan you have to admit to yourself that you aren't as good as the Kansas City Chiefs. You utilize that gameplan to take it out of Mahomes hands, to limit possessions, and to hope the Chiefs make some freak mistakes and you are in the game at the end.

We aren't going to run that much if it isn't cold and rainy. Any QB will tell you that is the absolute worst conditions they would wish to play in. QBs like to play in the bitter cold or bitter cold + snow more than rain. The ball gets a little tacky in the snow and some QBs actually like it. In the rain it just flops around and easy to throw ducks.

Yeah, it's about the only way to keep it close. You aren't gonna win a shootout. You aren't gonna beat them trying to stop them.

You've gotta just take away the deep big shots and big plays, make them be methodical and hope they fuck it up somehow.

The Chiefs keep ripping of 10 plus yard runs and such, it'll change.

[Mecca]

So far we've seen the Chiefs run against the look and do it well, and Buffalo still refused to come out of that look. Some coaches are going to take the approach, it's fine if they score as long as they don't do it in 3 plays.

[Shaid]

You guys aren't wrong here. It's waht you've gotta do.

But as we discussed in teh game thread, it kind of plays into other teams hands in that it allows them to bend but not break and shorten the game. If they can do that and keep it close, it narrows the Chiefs margin for error.

To get them out of it, the Chiefs are gonna have to run it, then score TD's. They can't stall out.

Yeah, that's exactly right, they have to score TDs. It's basically the way people have to play the Chiefs though, it gives them the best chance.

The comment about our OLine needing to produce is very true. We should be able to get great yards against those looks. We didn't against the Pats and that was a bit ridiculous.

[O.city]

Yeah, that's exactly right, they have to score TDs. It's basically the way people have to play the Chiefs though, it gives them the best chance.

The comment about our OLine needing to produce is very true. We should be able to get great yards against those looks. We didn't against the Pats and that was a bit ridiculous.

Yep.

If you do it and score TD's, you force teams to take chances. If they do that, the Chiefs offense is too talented. It'll run you out of the gym.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

IMO, its in the middle of the season, and Andy and Patrick aren't going to show a lot of how they plan on beating those types of defenses and are going to be pretty vanilla in those regards.

[Dunerdr]

NFL teams average 6.5 per pass ATTEMPT and 4.2 to 4.3 yards per carry.

If I'm a coach, I do exactly what the Bills did. LET the Chiefs run. I don't think alot of coaches have the lack of ego to do that though. To have that game plan you have to admit to yourself that you aren't as good as the Kansas City Chiefs. You utilize that gameplan to take it out of Mahomes hands, to limit possessions, and to hope the Chiefs make some freak mistakes and you are in the game at the end.

We aren't going to run that much if it isn't cold and rainy. Any QB will tell you that is the absolute worst conditions they would wish to play in. QBs like to play in the bitter cold or bitter cold + snow more than rain. The ball gets a little tacky in the snow and some QBs actually like it. In the rain it just flops around and easy to throw ducks.
I think you are correct. If i'm another team i just take those lumps. I expect Andy to dial up the screens with kelce/bell as a fb and utilizing orbit motion to really **** up some stuff and get our linemen moving in space with the ball in one of these elite athletes hands. Even dropping 8 theres so much talent to try to stop. Recievers have to keep working and that may mean coming back to short areas as much as the normal east and west motion they work on.

It may come down to coaches egos vs Mahomes. Can Mahomes pretend to be Alex Smith longer than the coach can stick to this plan?

[O.city]

IMO, its in the middle of the season, and Andy and Patrick aren't going to show a lot of how they plan on beating those types of defenses and are going to be pretty vanilla in those regards.

I think this is kinda overblown. It's only a 16 game season. Coaches don't hold that much stuff back.

[tk13]

The issue is teams might not go away from it, because if CEH beats you, you just tip your hat. That's literally what someone like Belichick is going to think.

Mahomes is so good that teams will probably get more and more extreme and trying to stop him at the cost of everything else. We have to be able to really punish teams on the ground.

[Dunerdr]

The issue is teams might not go away from it, because if CEH beats you, you just tip your hat. That's literally what someone like Belichick is going to think.

Mahomes is so good that teams will probably get more and more extreme and trying to stop him at the cost of everything else. We have to be able to really punish teams on the ground.

run deeper and deeper routes and set up a late rb screen. Theres a counter to every move. I have faith andy and co can figure it out.

[FloridaMan88]

Need to get the ball to Tyreek more... he should be getting at least 10 targets a game.

I know he’s being double teamed frequently but he’s too explosive as a weapon to let opposing defenses take him out of the Chiefs offensive game plan.

[O.city]

Need to get the ball to Tyreek more... he should be getting at least 10 targets a game.

I know he’s being double teamed frequently but he’s too explosive as a weapon to let opposing defenses take him out of the Chiefs offensive game plan.

This.

Back in his heyday, people double AB in Pitt. Still forced him the ball.

Get it to Tyreek. I know we have other weapons, but Hill is so much better he's gotta get touches.

[BigRedChief]

You guys aren't wrong here. It's waht you've gotta do.

But as we discussed in teh game thread, it kind of plays into other teams hands in that it allows them to bend but not break and shorten the game. If they can do that and keep it close, it narrows the Chiefs margin for error.

To get them out of it, the Chiefs are gonna have to run it, then score TD's. They can't stall out.All of this true about the downside but its also true, we have to run the ball. And get TD's is a must if you want those LB's to come up closer to the line. If that happens it should open up those crossing routes for Kelce and get the every down double team off Hill.

[BigRedChief]

Need to get the ball to Tyreek more... he should be getting at least 10 targets a game.

I know he’s being double teamed frequently but he’s too explosive as a weapon to let opposing defenses take him out of the Chiefs offensive game plan.No No No.... forcing throws into double teams? :doh!:
You can get him out in space with a WR screen, short throws in space before the safety is on him for the double team etc. there are many ways to get the ball in Hill's hands other than throwing into double teams. Reid will figure it out.

[dirk digler]

I agree with others we need to get Hill the ball more so we should move Hill to the slot and run crossers with more frequency or bubble screens

[O.city]

No No No.... forcing throws into double teams? :doh!:
You can get him out in space with a WR screen, short throws in space before the safety is on him for the double team etc. there are many ways to get the ball in Hill's hands other than throwing into double teams. Reid will figure it out.

When a player is as good and as dangerous as Hill, yeah, you force him the ball.

[chiefzilla1501]

People may not like this, but we need to go run heavy for a few games. And we need to blow these games out. We haven't don't that consistently with CEH. With the leveon/CEH combo we will. Not because this is a long term strategy for us. We just need to prove to defenses for a few games that we can and we will.

It's ok if there are games where our passing game can't get going. What we can't have is defenses daring us to run, and us being totally incapable of getting rushing yards. Hopefully if we can consistently pull this off defenses will have no choice but to pull someone out of coverage.

[KChiefs1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> unveiled a new play package vs. the Bills — and <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ChiefinCarolina</a> has the details: <a href="https://t.co/HxrtYc8ykH">https://t.co/HxrtYc8ykH</a></p>&mdash; Arrowhead Pride (@ArrowheadPride) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadPride/status/1319272796984233984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mentioned a potential pre-21 Pony play package vs the Bills:<br><br>Kelce in the backfield darting straight through LoS forces the LB to retreat. Block is entirely in space which allows him to cut the LB.<br><br>An athlete sprinting straight through the LoS puts LB in conflict, creates space <a href="https://t.co/ozocA3IGxR">pic.twitter.com/ozocA3IGxR</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318756529072373760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another rep, this time Kelce crossing formation to the flat.<br><br>Buffalo gets 3 players reacting to the motion with two taking Kelce entirely. Sets up a double team and a combo block to take on only three defenders. <br><br>Pushing the athlete to the flat demands EMOL and LB attention <a href="https://t.co/rPxU1auyuC">pic.twitter.com/rPxU1auyuC</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318758156412084224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[chiefzilla1501]

It's not gonna be exciting. But I feel like a lot of our games will feel more like the Houston opener. Where we dominated by taking what we are given. Which is going to be short yardage stuff with a ton of real estate.

[KCJake]

Yeah, it's about the only way to keep it close. You aren't gonna win a shootout. You aren't gonna beat them trying to stop them.

You've gotta just take away the deep big shots and big plays, make them be methodical and hope they **** it up somehow.

The Chiefs keep ripping of 10 plus yard runs and such, it'll change.
Yep! As much as the Chiefs dominated the game against Buffalo, the score remained close. This strategy looks ugly but it keeps teams in games against us. If they can force us to kick field goals in the red zone it's a decent strategy

[Mecca]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> unveiled a new play package vs. the Bills — and <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ChiefinCarolina</a> has the details: <a href="https://t.co/HxrtYc8ykH">https://t.co/HxrtYc8ykH</a></p>&mdash; Arrowhead Pride (@ArrowheadPride) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadPride/status/1319272796984233984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This formation, especially if you add Bell into the backfield and slide Kelce into his more normal role will create massive problems. It's impossible to spy Mahomes out of this set and you have to respect the run all while having weapons in the pass game...

[UChieffyBugger]

Guys!!!..it looks like teams have officially entered into a "Jordan rules" period with Pat and guess what? We should ALL freaking love it because all it is doing is educating Pat and sharpening his short passing game and ability to be patient. This is great experience for the young man :D . He'll be watching tape of how Payton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Montana, Morino etc approached these scemes and it will only make him a bigger monster moving forward. When teams are so scared of you that they resort to this then you know you're dealing with someone very special. We already saw how accurate his short passes were against the Bills and he will continue soak it all in and grow.

[KChiefs1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is the fun stuff; what a creative way to flood a zone with 4 players.<br><br>Get a switch on the verticals w/ the Out-N-Up<br>Kelce out of the backfield on the over draws both Hooks<br>RB is free to the flat<br><br>Four players to 1 side w/o having to cross the field <a href="https://t.co/w3HBx93kFw">pic.twitter.com/w3HBx93kFw</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318767688798359552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[KChiefs1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the second half, Bills began responding by spinning a S down.<br><br>The threat of Kelce pushing vertically out of the backfield forces the S to tilt and not attack him until Kelce&#39;s feet stop. The threat of Kelce (or any top athlete *hint hint*) makes fillers late to the LoS <a href="https://t.co/OHgdCTvfyT">pic.twitter.com/OHgdCTvfyT</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318922548621565954?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[KChiefs1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">3rd and 2 and two defenders get caught with their eyes on Kelce working out to the flat. Not a single block attempted but two players influenced enough to pick up a 1st down.<br><br>When DEs start squeezing down, I imagine the Chiefs are planning on working that pass to the flat <a href="https://t.co/UzJtybIAR8">pic.twitter.com/UzJtybIAR8</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318924553482063873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[UChieffyBugger]

Yep! As much as the Chiefs dominated the game against Buffalo, the score remained close. This strategy looks ugly but it keeps teams in games against us. If they can force us to kick field goals in the red zone it's a decent strategy

But it also puts immense pressure on their own offense to score points because by allowing us to run we're gonna dominate the ball and time. If we score on a nine minute drive, then the opposition offense goes three and out and we have another seven minute drive and score again then what? That team is screwed.

[ThaVirus]

So far we've seen the Chiefs run against the look and do it well, and Buffalo still refused to come out of that look. Some coaches are going to take the approach, it's fine if they score as long as they don't do it in 3 plays.


I’ll have to find it but after the game someone from Buffalo basically said they were totally fine with CEH going for 200 if it kept Mahomes from dropping 450. This will probably just be the new normal as teams try to adjust to our offense.

We don't run nearly as many screens as we used to and should run.


I was thinking that the other day. We run a lot of HB and TE screens but I don’t remember seeing a quick WR screen in quite some time. Might be worth it to give it a try to a guy like Hill or Hardman, especially if the defense is playing off coverage.

[chiefzilla1501]

This formation, especially if you add Bell into the backfield and slide Kelce into his more normal role will create massive problems. It's impossible to spy Mahomes out of this set and you have to respect the run all while having weapons in the pass game...

Part was probably to test a package for bell. But another part had me wondering if it might be to help kelce find a freer release on some plays. One of the things new England does really well is beat kelce up.

Other observation is that mahomes took a lot of snaps under center vs the bills. Was that just the Buffalo gameplan? Or might we see a lot more of this in the coming weeks.

[O.city]

But it also puts immense pressure on their own offense to score points because by allowing us to run we're gonna dominate the ball and time. If we score on a nine minute drive, then the opposition offense goes three and out and we have another seven minute drive and score again then what? That team is screwed.

It also shortens the game and lessens the amount of possessions the Chiefs have the ball.

Fewer possessions for KC is all the defense wants. The fewer times you have to stop them the higher your likelihood is of stopping them.

[UChieffyBugger]

It also shortens the game and lessens the amount of possessions the Chiefs have the ball.

Fewer possessions for KC is all the defense wants. The fewer times you have to stop them the higher your likelihood is of stopping them.

Yeah there are certainly pluses and minuses to this. I think what teams are trying to shit down is our ability to rip off three or four td's in a single quarter...we've done it so many times that eventually teams had to try and find a way to counter it. But like i said above..i like this for Pat because it will only improve his overall game moving forward. Dicing teams up with a shory passing game has been what the likes of Brady and Brees have been doing for years...and Pat can do it too as he showed on Monday but the more experience he gets from it, the better he will be moving forward.

[Chief Roundup]

I can't remember if it was during the game against the Bills or if it was Chris Simms or someone like him but they stated that the Chiefs don't have as good a winning percentage in shoot outs as we do in closer lower scoring games. Seemed odd to me.

[-King-]

With teams playing so passive, I don't think the screen game will be as effective?

I'd like to see some short bubble screens to Hill though and get him in space.

Yeah I'm more so talking about WR screens

[O.city]

I can't remember if it was during the game against the Bills or if it was Chris Simms or someone like him but they stated that the Chiefs don't have as good a winning percentage in shoot outs as we do in closer lower scoring games. Seemed odd to me.

I dont' think anyone has very good winning percentages in shootouts. Usually means your defense sucks.

[prhom]

It is very interesting to consider that teams may be willing to get destroyed on the ground if it means limiting Mahomes. One thing we really missed against Buffalo and made it feel strangely close despite the statistical domination was the lack of explosive plays. That’s essentially what the teams seem to want to limit. For all of the running success we had, there weren’t nearly as many explosive plays as we are used to getting in a game. Weather was a big part of that too, but the scheme is intended to stop that. CEH isn’t going to break many 40+ yard runs. Maybe we need to get Tyreek and Hardman more involved in the run game too? The jet sweeps are great, and we are seeing some reverses too. I think all of that should help create chances for explosive run plays, right?

The other essential thing is for the defense to keep things close. If we are playing tight games and teams are limiting our big play ability then we shouldn’t rely on scoring two tds in the last 5 minutes to win a game.

[htismaqe]

With teams playing so passive, I don't think the screen game will be as effective?

I'd like to see some short bubble screens to Hill though and get him in space.

They aren't.

Bubble screens and wide receiver screens are design to stress the defense horizontally, forcing them to flatten vertically so that once the ball carrier gets through the initial contact zone, there's nobody back there to beat.

A defense playing 7 or 8-dB sets is already covering the field horizontally from sideline to sideline, so it's much easier to maintain their vertical assignments, making screens much harder to run.

[duncan_idaho]

It seems like the RB draw would be really effective against teams dropping 8...

Also think you could see some designed downfield screens to get Hill involved... crossers where the receivers on the other side of the field aren't really running routes so much as they're getting in the way and then blocking once Hill has the ball.

Take advantage of that space the D is giving you underneath and make them pay for it.

[Mecca]

It seems like the RB draw would be really effective against teams dropping 8...

Also think you could see some designed downfield screens to get Hill involved... crossers where the receivers on the other side of the field aren't really running routes so much as they're getting in the way and then blocking once Hill has the ball.

Take advantage of that space the D is giving you underneath and make them pay for it.

Teams that drop that spy kill the crossers though since he's in the lane, you have to make teams pay for doing the spy.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, it's about the only way to keep it close. You aren't gonna win a shootout. You aren't gonna beat them trying to stop them.

You've gotta just take away the deep big shots and big plays, make them be methodical and hope they fuck it up somehow.

The Chiefs keep ripping of 10 plus yard runs and such, it'll change.

That's the thing. The Bills stuck with their defensive gameplan pretty much the entire game. Most teams won't do that. If they give up 100 yards on the ground in the first half, they're going to adjust, which is going to open up the passing game again.

The Buffalo game was a unique case in that 1) I think McDermott wanted to see if the "blueprint" would actually work and 2) the weather was complete crap.

[O.city]

That's the thing. The Bills stuck with their defensive gameplan pretty much the entire game. Most teams won't do that. If they give up 100 yards on the ground in the first half, they're going to adjust, which is going to open up the passing game again.

The Buffalo game was a unique case in that 1) I think McDermott wanted to see if the "blueprint" would actually work and 2) the weather was complete crap.

Yeah, and it actually did work. Hopefully it was weather related, but it got them to the fourth quarter with a chance.

More than alot of teams can say.

[htismaqe]

This.

Back in his heyday, people double AB in Pitt. Still forced him the ball.

Get it to Tyreek. I know we have other weapons, but Hill is so much better he's gotta get touches.

That's not going to happen. Andy's offense doesn't operate like that and neither does Mahomes. He's going to go for the open guy all day, every day.

[htismaqe]

I was thinking that the other day. We run a lot of HB and TE screens but I don’t remember seeing a quick WR screen in quite some time. Might be worth it to give it a try to a guy like Hill or Hardman, especially if the defense is playing off coverage.

HB and TE screens are more about exploiting the middle and middle-edge of a defense that's spread out horizontally. Basically the opposite of edge WR and bubble screens.

[duncan_idaho]

Teams that drop that spy kill the crossers though since he's in the lane, you have to make teams pay for doing the spy.

That's where the draws can really help, IMO. Especially if you're splitting Kelce in the slot like they did some against Buffalo. Backpedal, eyes on QB and crosser, all of a sudden it's a draw and that TE is on top of you blowing you out of the play.

[htismaqe]

It seems like the RB draw would be really effective against teams dropping 8...

It was. They ran a bunch of delays and draws against Buffalo and they worked great.

[dtrain]

Take what the defense is giving up if and when they change we change that's why people hated LB coming to the Kingdom double threat.

[Pants]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> unveiled a new play package vs. the Bills — and <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ChiefinCarolina</a> has the details: <a href="https://t.co/HxrtYc8ykH">https://t.co/HxrtYc8ykH</a></p>&mdash; Arrowhead Pride (@ArrowheadPride) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadPride/status/1319272796984233984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mentioned a potential pre-21 Pony play package vs the Bills:<br><br>Kelce in the backfield darting straight through LoS forces the LB to retreat. Block is entirely in space which allows him to cut the LB.<br><br>An athlete sprinting straight through the LoS puts LB in conflict, creates space <a href="https://t.co/ozocA3IGxR">pic.twitter.com/ozocA3IGxR</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318756529072373760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another rep, this time Kelce crossing formation to the flat.<br><br>Buffalo gets 3 players reacting to the motion with two taking Kelce entirely. Sets up a double team and a combo block to take on only three defenders. <br><br>Pushing the athlete to the flat demands EMOL and LB attention <a href="https://t.co/rPxU1auyuC">pic.twitter.com/rPxU1auyuC</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@ChiefinCarolina) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefinCarolina/status/1318758156412084224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What an incredible read that was. Thanks, KChiefs1. As a veritable football dumbass, I eat that shit up. I do not see any of that when watching the game live.

I bet that Mahomes tweet about him loving football and how he couldn't wait to get out there again was after these were installed last week. :D

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Mahomes and the Chiefs passing game is so good though, I don't think teams will come out of it even if they're getting gashed.

You're gonna have to be able to throw it down the field on that somehow.

Easier said than done with cover 3 and 7-8 total dropping into coverage... Continue to kill them with a 1000 cuts if that is their death wish. Our mistake last week was kicking FG's. We need to finish those drives with TD's.

[htismaqe]

Easier said than done with cover 3 and 7-8 total dropping into coverage... Continue to kill them with a 1000 cuts if that is their death wish. Our mistake last week was kicking FG's. We need to finish those drives with TD's.

Yep.

[OKchiefs]

If this is going to be the new norm then Mahomes is going to need to be sharp and accurate on the short to intermediate throws, play the Drew Brees/Michael Thomas game and kill them with slants and other quick routes.

[Pants]

If this is going to be the new norm then Mahomes is going to need to be sharp and accurate on the short to intermediate throws, play the Drew Brees/Michael Thomas game and kill them with slants and other quick routes.

Maybe something like this: 21-26, 225 YDS, 2 TD?

:D

[UChieffyBugger]

I can't remember if it was during the game against the Bills or if it was Chris Simms or someone like him but they stated that the Chiefs don't have as good a winning percentage in shoot outs as we do in closer lower scoring games. Seemed odd to me.

Max Kellerman said it on espn first take. However he said we were 5 and 4 in games "considered" a shootout since Pat's first season which would include the the Rams game, both Pats gsmes in that season and the Titans regular season game last year. I don't think that stat means much tbh.

[KChiefs1]

I can't remember if it was during the game against the Bills or if it was Chris Simms or someone like him but they stated that the Chiefs don't have as good a winning percentage in shoot outs as we do in closer lower scoring games. Seemed odd to me.

I think it was Cowherd:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aj3fzVsBtTA?start=12" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[staylor26]

Max Kellerman said it on espn first take. However he said we were 5 and 4 in games "considered" a shootout since Pat's first season which would include the the Rams game, both Pats gsmes in that season and the Titans regular season game last year. I don't think that stat means much tbh.

I’m sure most of the shootout losses came with the 2018 defense...

[htismaqe]

I’m sure most of the shootout losses came with the 2018 defense...

New England twice and the Rams.

The only one I can think of since is the Raiders last week.

[Megatron96]

I think we may have to get used to seeing this type of defense for at least the rest of the season.

But i also believe this is exactly why Veach and Reid wanted Bell. The weakness of this offense so far this season has literally been the drop off in performance going from CEH to anyone else. So every time CEH had to come out for a breather, the opposing D didn't have to respect the run at all.

But now insert Bell every time CEH comes out, with little to no drop-off, and now they have a serious issue. If Bell can be at least as productive as CEH running and receiving, defenses will be forced to change things up. They'll have to start bringing a safety down, or leave another LB on the field, or bring another DL. But they'll have to do something, or they'll get dominated just as badly, the Chiefs will move down the field pretty easily, and it'll just take a couple extra plays per drive to score.

No, Mahomes won't be bombing them all over the field, but it'll still be domination. Similar to how the Chiefs beat CHI last season, or how methodically KC beat the Bills. Not a lot of big plays, but merciless efficiency.

[Megatron96]

New England twice and the Rams.

The only one I can think of since is the Raiders last week.

Maybe they're thinking the week 10 TEN game last year. That was kind of a shoot-out.

[Mecca]

I think we may have to get used to seeing this type of defense for at least the rest of the season.

But i also believe this is exactly why Veach and Reid wanted Bell. The weakness of this offense so far this season has literally been the drop off in performance going from CEH to anyone else. So every time CEH had to come out for a breather, the opposing D didn't have to respect the run at all.

But now insert Bell every time CEH comes out, with little to no drop-off, and now they have a serious issue. If Bell can be at least as productive as CEH running and receiving, defenses will be forced to change things up. They'll have to start bringing a safety down, or leave another LB on the field, or bring another DL. But they'll have to do something, or they'll get dominated just as badly, the Chiefs will move down the field pretty easily, and it'll just take a couple extra plays per drive to score.

No, Mahomes won't be bombing them all over the field, but it'll still be domination. Similar to how the Chiefs beat CHI last season, or how methodically KC beat the Bills. Not a lot of big plays, but merciless efficiency.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bell is better than CEH, we aren't really all that far removed from him being a top 10 player in the league...

[htismaqe]

Maybe they're thinking the week 10 TEN game last year. That was kind of a shoot-out.

That would be #4 so probably that's it.

[O.city]

I dont' think the Chiefs can run it enough or be successful enough to bring teams out of it. It's either stick in that or just get destroyed like the Ravens did.

I think coaches will say "fuck it, we're gonna go with death by 1000 cuts and take our chacnes".

[htismaqe]

I dont' think the Chiefs can run it enough or be successful enough to bring teams out of it. It's either stick in that or just get destroyed like the Ravens did.

I think coaches will say "fuck it, we're gonna go with death by 1000 cuts and take our chacnes".

And they'll get beat, just like the Bills did.

Mahomes is capably of being extremely efficient. The only thing that prevented the Bills game from being a blowout was poor execution. If they reduce the number of penalties, especially in the red zone, they're going to score.

[staylor26]

And they'll get beat, just like the Bills did.

Mahomes is capably of being extremely efficient. The only thing that prevented the Bills game from being a blowout was poor execution. If they reduce the number of penalties, especially in the red zone, they're going to score.

Exactly.

When teams do this it will be Mahomes and our offense in the 4th versus an exhausted defense, and our well rested defense versus a QB who’s not Mahomes with weapons not as good as ours.

[O.city]

And they'll get beat, just like the Bills did.

Mahomes is capably of being extremely efficient. The only thing that prevented the Bills game from being a blowout was poor execution. If they reduce the number of penalties, especially in the red zone, they're going to score.

But again, with limited possessions, you have a better chance of doing that than the alternative.

It's just what teams are gonna have to do. The Bills played it about as well as they could defensively and had the Chiefs make the mistakes they needed them to.

[htismaqe]

But again, with limited possessions, you have a better chance of doing that than the alternative.

It's just what teams are gonna have to do. The Bills played it about as well as they could defensively and had the Chiefs make the mistakes they needed them to.

You worry way too much, man.

[Megatron96]

But again, with limited possessions, you have a better chance of doing that than the alternative.

It's just what teams are gonna have to do. The Bills played it about as well as they could defensively and had the Chiefs make the mistakes they needed them to.

Overall, yes.

But I don't believe BUF played it as well as they could have. They really needed to generate more stops earlier in the game. They needed to make Andy believe he couldn't just run the same three or four running plays over and over. Instead, they let Andy and the offense believe that they could run at will, for virtually any down and distance. You aren't going to be able to extract a win very often doing that.

[O.city]

Overall, yes.

But I don't believe BUF played it as well as they could have. They really needed to generate more stops earlier in the game. They needed to make Andy believe he couldn't just run the same three or four running plays over and over. Instead, they let Andy and the offense believe that they could run at will, for virtually any down and distance. You aren't going to be able to extract a win very often doing that.

The Chiefs offense is too good. You aren't gonna stop everything.

There's like what, 2 defenses in the league that can do it? The 9ers did it well because they could get after teh QB with 4 and drop everyone else and they have athletes at LB to play the run.

Tampa can probably do it this year, but thats about it. You've gotta pick your poison. The Bills did it and it got them to the fourth quarter with a chance.

Thats all you are hoping for. The Chiefs are the best team in the league and probably one of the overall better teams of the last 10 years. They're good on defense and elite on offense.

[FRCDFED]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bell is better than CEH, we aren't really all that far removed from him being a top 10 player in the league...

This wouldn't be a surprise to me either. I mean Bell was once an extremely good RB. If not the top RB in terms of yardage and TD's. It shouldn't be any stretch of the imagination that he could get back close to performing at that level again.

[htismaqe]

This wouldn't be a surprise to me either. I mean Bell was once an extremely good RB. If not the top RB in terms of yardage and TD's. It shouldn't be any stretch of the imagination that he could get back close to performing at that level again.

At the time he was franchised by the Steelers, one of the reasons he held out to get paid was because he was the most productive RB in football since the AFL-NFL merger.

He had the highest yards per game in the last 50 years, over the course of 2 seasons.

[UChieffyBugger]

But again, with limited possessions, you have a better chance of doing that than the alternative.

It's just what teams are gonna have to do. The Bills played it about as well as they could defensively and had the Chiefs make the mistakes they needed them to.

Without the Kelce fumble the game is nowhere near closr late no doubt. Same with the Thompson fumble against the Ravens and Watkins against the Pats...far too many fumbles already and it's making games closer than they should be.

[UChieffyBugger]

At the time he was franchised by the Steelers, one of the reasons he held out to get paid was because he was the most productive RB in football since the AFL-NFL merger.

He had the highest yards per game in the last 50 years, over the course of 2 seasons.

Folks thought Randy Moss was washed up in Oakland and he left that tire fire and exploded in New England. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bell did the same with us..not at all. The guy is fresh and is still only 28 in an offense that cannot be faced without light boxes and a coach who knows how to use rb's effectively...this is virtually his football heaven.

[Megatron96]

The Chiefs offense is too good. You aren't gonna stop everything.

There's like what, 2 defenses in the league that can do it? The 9ers did it well because they could get after teh QB with 4 and drop everyone else and they have athletes at LB to play the run.

Tampa can probably do it this year, but thats about it. You've gotta pick your poison. The Bills did it and it got them to the fourth quarter with a chance.

Thats all you are hoping for. The Chiefs are the best team in the league and probably one of the overall better teams of the last 10 years. They're good on defense and elite on offense.

I agree. I'm just saying as a defense you just can't give up 8+ yds/carry. Not against a team that's as efficient as the Chiefs. Look at it this way: the Chiefs essentially only had 7 scoring possessions; don't count the last two because Andy wasn't trying to score.

The Chiefs still scored on 5 out of 7 scoring possessions. Now look at BUF: they effectively had 9 possessions, and only scored on three of them. 3 out of 9. 33%.

Now, it was raining, and whatever, but the reality is that BUF isn't terribly efficient scoring. They score right around 50% of the time on average. And they must know that. And they know how efficient the Chiefs are at scoring. So yeah, they limited the Chiefs to single digit possessions, but they didn't give their own offense enough possessions to allow for their own inefficiency scoring.

I think BUF was thinking they'd hold CEH to about 4 yds/carry. If they'd done that, then probably they give the ball back to their offense a couple extra times. THEN they'd have had a much better chance to win. But there was no way they were going to win only scoring a pair of TDs and a FG. Or a couple of FGs.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Mahomes is at fault here

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most pressures charged to the QB:<br>1. Patrick Mahomes - 24<br>2. Deshaun Watson - 20<br>3. Kyler Murray - 16 <a href="https://t.co/E5efdNd7Xb">pic.twitter.com/E5efdNd7Xb</a></p>&mdash; PFF (@PFF) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1319360632962035713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ThaVirus]

HB and TE screens are more about exploiting the middle and middle-edge of a defense that's spread out horizontally. Basically the opposite of edge WR and bubble screens.

I'm talking about something like this:

https://www.sportsgamersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Madden16_WR_Screen.jpg

If we can get our OL out there 1-on-1 with some DBs, Hardman or Hill could house it.

[Rasputin]

A wise mane once said "We'll be fine"



He was right we were fine and won a Super Bowl so.


We'll be fine.

[ThaVirus]

Then we could go with a fake WR screen where Mahomes pump fakes to the screen WR, the blocking WR fakes the block and Patrick hits him downfield.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Then we could go with a fake WR screen where Mahomes pump fakes to the screen WR, the blocking WR fakes the block and Patrick hits him downfield.

Ineligible lineman downfield

[htismaqe]

I'm talking about something like this:

https://www.sportsgamersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Madden16_WR_Screen.jpg

If we can get our OL out there 1-on-1 with some DBs, Hardman or Hill could house it.

That's hard to do when there's already 3 or 4 DB's on the edge as opposed to two in a traditional alignment, though. That's my point.

[RunKC]

If opposing defenses want us to run the ball bc they think that’s their bests shot, then by all means. Andy should pound the rock for a quarter or so.

Teams like the Raiders can try that shit but their pass rush will be done by the 2nd half due to being tired. Those long bruising drives will open up play action and also tire pass rushers.

Once the pass rushers are tired, Pat has more time, and when Pat has more time? It’s over

[ThaVirus]

Ineligible lineman downfield

That's a real play. I didn't make it up. You can run it legally.

That's hard to do when there's already 3 or 4 DB's on the edge as opposed to two in a traditional alignment, though. That's my point.

I mean, it's out of a 4-receiver set so the only time you'd run it would be against a nickel or dime defense.

I've seen Albert Wilson house one of these so I know we could do it with Hardman or Hill.

[notorious]

So we see what other teams are doing against the Chiefs. Drop a bunch of guys, take away all the deep and intermediate throws and force them to run the ball.

It's really taken Tyreek out of the equation in terms of yards and targets, which sucks.

So, what can the Chiefs do to open things back up? Is it just "run the ball until they come out of it"? Because it seems unless they can put it in the endzone more doing it, it's playing into other teams hands?

The Chiefs aren't going to show anything until the playoffs.

No need to.

[chiefzilla1501]

I dont' think the Chiefs can run it enough or be successful enough to bring teams out of it. It's either stick in that or just get destroyed like the Ravens did.

I think coaches will say "**** it, we're gonna go with death by 1000 cuts and take our chacnes".

Generally yes. But right now teams have seen 3 games where they dared us to run but couldn't. So it's not just about limiting possessions, it's also about feeling they can stop us. That's not good if they give us the run and we can't take advantage of it. Bell should hopefully solve that. Defenses will never load up to stop the run against us but it might make them think twice about totally selling out to stop the pass.

[WhiteWhale]

Mahomes is at fault here

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most pressures charged to the QB:<br>1. Patrick Mahomes - 24<br>2. Deshaun Watson - 20<br>3. Kyler Murray - 16 <a href="https://t.co/E5efdNd7Xb">pic.twitter.com/E5efdNd7Xb</a></p>&mdash; PFF (@PFF) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1319360632962035713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Fuck pff

[Coochie liquor]

Without the Kelce fumble the game is nowhere near closr late no doubt. Same with the Thompson fumble against the Ravens and Watkins against the Pats...far too many fumbles already and it's making games closer than they should be.

And let’s be honest. If not for the 2 big plays coming back in the Faders game we likely run away with it.

[Pitt Gorilla]

IMO, its in the middle of the season, and Andy and Patrick aren't going to show a lot of how they plan on beating those types of defenses and are going to be pretty vanilla in those regards.

I mean, they showed EXACTLY what they should do; run the ball. There's no "vanilla" here regarding the way to attack that defense.

You think they're suddenly going to unveil a "new" blocking scheme?

[Pitt Gorilla]

It seems like the RB draw would be really effective against teams dropping 8...

Also think you could see some designed downfield screens to get Hill involved... crossers where the receivers on the other side of the field aren't really running routes so much as they're getting in the way and then blocking once Hill has the ball.

Take advantage of that space the D is giving you underneath and make them pay for it.
The delayed stunts hurt the draw a bit. I think you run just like they did against Buffalo.

[jerryaldini]

According to every expert in every sports bar I went to watch the Chiefs during the 90s, the answer is emphatically, "you've got to establish the running game!". Remember that?

[Megatron96]

According to every expert in every sports bar I went to watch the Chiefs during the 90s, the answer is emphatically, "you've got to establish the running game!". Remember that?

Well, except for the 49ers. They passed to establish the run. Either way, you have to be able to make the defense respect the run game to be able to pass, and vice versa.

[scho63]

I think it's time to bring back the Wishbone formation!


https://www.hookem.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/wish2.jpg

[Simply Red]

Not sure how you can ask these questions when all this was answered in the Bills game. What we do is: A double headed running back dildo up they asses!

[pugsnotdrugs19]

You run the football and use your quick to intermediate pass game to get those defenders sucked up.

Eventually, even if the scheme doesn’t call for it, you’re going to catch a DB or two sleeping when they’re having to come up and make tackles over and over.

[htismaqe]

You run the football and use your quick to intermediate pass game to get those defenders sucked up.

Eventually, even if the scheme doesn’t call for it, you’re going to catch a DB or two sleeping when they’re having to come up and make tackles over and over.

Exactly.

You can't expect every team to be disciplined enough to play that way for 4 quarters. It takes a combination of talent and coaching discipline to really pull it off flawlessly. The Bills are coached well but their defensive line wasn't up to to the task. The Patriots did it for 4 quarters pretty much. The Raiders shocked everyone. I question whether or not they have the talent OR the coaching to do it again because in many ways, they weren't successful on defense. They were just more successful than the CHIEFS defense.

Defenses play this way to force the long drive in hopes the Chiefs offense will make a mistake and stall a drive. By the same token, the more patient the Chiefs are, the higher the chance the defense makes a mistake, which opens them up to getting burnt.

Outside of the Patriots, Steelers, and Colts, who in the AFC really has what it takes to play this kind of football for 4 straight quarters and not break down eventually?

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Exactly.

You can't expect every team to be disciplined enough to play that way for 4 quarters. It takes a combination of talent and coaching discipline to really pull it off flawlessly. The Bills are coached well but their defensive line wasn't up to to the task. The Patriots did it for 4 quarters pretty much. The Raiders shocked everyone. I question whether or not they have the talent OR the coaching to do it again because in many ways, they weren't successful on defense. They were just more successful than the CHIEFS defense.

Defenses play this way to force the long drive in hopes the Chiefs offense will make a mistake and stall a drive. By the same token, the more patient the Chiefs are, the higher the chance the defense makes a mistake, which opens them up to getting burnt.

Outside of the Patriots, Steelers, and Colts, who in the AFC really has what it takes to play this kind of football for 4 straight quarters and not break down eventually?

I think the Raiders game was mostly an issue of not being patient in the passing game, as well as not getting any sort of decent lanes for the RBs.

I’ve said it before though, teams like the Bears and Titans (AFCCG) last year played this same exact conservative approach and the Chiefs played it perfectly for a variety of reasons. We know they can handle it, they just have to be willing to play with the necessary discipline in play calling and decision making (from Patrick).

I don’t know if defenses will ever play them differently, I wouldn’t. Clearly blitzing is a terrible idea. Good thing we’ve got 2 good backs and what appears to be an improved offensive line, at least with running the football.

[htismaqe]

I think the Raiders game was mostly an issue of not being patient in the passing game, as well as not getting any sort of decent lanes for the RBs.

I’ve said it before though, teams like the Bears and Titans (AFCCG) last year played this same exact conservative approach and the Chiefs played it perfectly for a variety of reasons. We know they can handle it, they just have to be willing to play with the necessary discipline in play calling and decision making (from Patrick).

I don’t know if defenses will ever play them differently, I wouldn’t. Clearly blitzing is a terrible idea. Good thing we’ve got 2 good backs and what appears to be an improved offensive line, at least with running the football.

I can't comment on the Bears as much because I haven't seen them play but twice this year. Their defense looks better this year to me.

As for the Titans, they're exactly the case I'm talking about. They have the coaching but they don't have the talent, plus their defense is actually WORSE this year.

They can try to play this type of defense all they want. It didn't work last year and it's definitely not going to work now.

[O.city]

Just because you lose the game though doesn’t necessarily mean the defensive strategy didn’t work.

It’s part of the way to beat kc. You’ve gotta pair that with an efficient offense that continually puts the ball in the endzone

[htismaqe]

Just because you lose the game though doesn’t necessarily mean the defensive strategy didn’t work.

It’s part of the way to beat kc. You’ve gotta pair that with an efficient offense that continually puts the ball in the endzone

Dude, how many teams can do that in addition to everything else that's required?

You're literally worrying about the planets aligning and the world ending with a spectacular bang.

[O.city]

Dude, how many teams can do that in addition to everything else that's required?

You're literally worrying about the planets aligning and the world ending with a spectacular bang.

Well there’s a couple we’ll likely have to play in the playoffs.

I am just discussing how the beat the chiefs, not necessarily that it will happen

[htismaqe]

Well there’s a couple we’ll likely have to play in the playoffs.

I am just discussing how the beat the chiefs, not necessarily that it will happen

The Steelers are basically it, IMO.

The Ravens, Titans, Patriots, Bills, and Colts are all lacking in a key area. Some of them have the offense (Ravens, Titans) but don't have the defense. Some of them have the defense (Patriots, Colts) but don't have the offense.

The only other real challenge is the Chargers because of their sheer talent on both sides of the ball. However, with their record, it's highly unlikely they'll qualify for the playoffs.

Sure, any given Sunday. Anybody can beat the Chiefs. But there isn't a team in the AFC, other than the Steelers, that doesn't have serious flaws.

It basically comes down to the opposing team having to play PERFECT on both sides of the ball in order to win. That's just not going to happen very often.

[O.city]

For sure especially if The chiefs are locked in.

The steelers have a front four that can get after it. That’ll be tough. I think they’re the beat bet.

The titans? I think I’ve seen that one So nah, don’t think they can do it.