Deshaun Watson is not a top 10 QB

[dlphg9]

Deshaun Watson is constantly getting praised as one of the best young QBs. Hell before the season people were saying he was 2nd best behind Mahomes. I'm here to tell you that he's not even in the top 10.

Deshaun Watson did have a bad GM in B.O.B, but he wasn't that bad as a coach. He always had the Texans respectable, but what he did to that franchise as a GM is senile. That doesn't mean he has to be the scape goat for every time Watson makes a mistake or can't close out a game. Watson was one of/if not the main reason for the playoff loss to the Chiefs. No elite QB is going to allow an opponent to run away with a game after being up 24-0. Another scape goat Watson has is his O line. He is terrible in the pocket and is the main reason for his high sack rate.

He has had success in his past seasons and it seems to me that a lot of that success was due to DeAndre Hopkins ability to catch everything that was anywhere close to him. He made that team so much better and was more important than Watson. Just look at this year what has happened in Houston. Hopkins got traded and the team literally fell apart and Watson has been absolute trash. Now how is he trash when he's on pace for 4800 yards and 34 TDs? He's a god damn garbage time all star, but he struts around like he's playing like an all pro and that his team is trash.

He has sucked shit in the 1st quarter all year and is one of the main reasons why his team is always playing from behind. In the 1st quarter of games this year he is

27/46, 58.7% comp, 285 yards, 1 TD, 13 1st down passes. That's in 7 fucking games! Almost half a season and he's managed 1 passing TD and a measly 285 yds in the first quarter. Compare that to his 4th quarter stats when he can just throw it against a prevent defense when his team is down double digits. 50/74, 67.5% comp, 685 yds, 7 TDs, 2 Ints. These numbers would be elite and he'd be considered clutch if they'd would have won more than one game.

This is the score of all of his games this year going into the 4th quarter and a little of what transpires

KC - 24 - 7

Balt - 23 - 10

Pit - 20 - 21
Houston was up, but Watson threw an int during an 8 play 42 yd drive at the beginning of the 4th quarter and Pitt capitalized and scored the go ahead TD right after that. Watson gets the ball back down a TD, but he takes one of his patented sacks and goes 3 and out and never sees the ball again. With how great he's been in the 4th quarter this year and how elite he is you'd expect more than 45 yds and an int in the 4th, but he choked the game away.

Min - 24 - 16
Deshaun had a chance to tie the game, but couldn't punch it in when they had the ball with around a minute left 2nd down and 1 yard to go from the Minnesota 1. David Johnson tries to run it in and gets stuffed. Then on 3rd down Watson is running an option and gets scared of a big hit, so he tosses it to David and David doesn't catch it, but he recovers the fumble and it's a 4 yard loss. 4th and 5 gives Watson a chance to redeem himself, but he thinks DeAndre Hopkins is out there running a route and will bail out his shitty overthrown fade route. Not DeAndre does his best, but he can't overcome Watson's shit ball.

Jax - Houston's only win!

Ten -
Deshaun tries really hard, but for some dumb shit reason the Texans go up 7 with 1:53 left in the game and Romeo oh Romeo says "Hey Mr Clutch, go out there and get us 2 points, so this game is over" and Deshaun replies "no probs Romeo O'Brien, I mean Bill, I got this", but Mr. Clutch ain't so clutch and two point conv fails. Ten scores a TD, makes XP, gets ball in OT and drives down for a win.

GB - 28 - 7, but Deshaun tears that prevent up in the 4th and racks up those garbage time numbers to the tune of 100 yards and a TD. 72 and the TD of those yards came in one drive when it really mattered down 35 to 14 with 3:40 left in the game a 2 minute drive to make it a 2 score game. Real nail biter.

Deshaun fucking sucks. He ain't shit. He got paid and will continually get talked as if he's some elite QB on a team devoid of talent because B.O.B fucked the franchise. Watson is gonna hit free agency in a few years and get another huge deal because it's not his fault the team never gets above 8-8 again. He will be shitting the bed in the first year of his next deal and everyone will be wondering why Bill O' Brien and his offensive line are still preventing him from winning a game.

Eat shit DeBerg

[Rasputin]

He got fucked over by the team they gave him and coaches.


If he had good coaching and a team he'd be doing pretty good.


Texans just may fuck his career.


He'd be ok if he can survive this year and demand a trade next season.

[Red Dawg]

Agreed. He's off way more than he's on. His game is all over the place and inconsistent.

[CarlosCarson27]

Is so!!!!

Sticks tongue out

[Rasputin]

I probably want him to be good more than if he is or will be or not. I want him to be good so makes Patrick Mahomes II look that much better when he beats him. I think Patrick thrives with competition and when other quarterbacks are compared to him he just elevates his own game. So I'm wanting Deshaun to be good to make Mahomes be that much better.

[rabblerouser]

Houston is a dumpster fire. They have Romeo as the interim head coach.

We know ALL about that.

[kcxiv]

Houston is a dumpster fire. They have Romeo as the interim head coach.

We know ALL about that.

yep Bill screwed that team over so bad. I just feel bad for the dude. Its the whole, make a chicken salad out of chicken shit kinda deal.

[Sassy Squatch]

Sounds like they're trying to trade away the rest of his WRs too LMAO

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

All I need is the air that I strum
and to PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL

[TEX]

Get Deshawn a good coach and he can be a top tier QB. Nobody could be successful on a consistent basis with BOB running the team. Watson needs to survive this year any way he can and hope Cal hires a good GM and coach for next season. Id start by purging all Ex - Patriots b/c that franchise has been "Patriot Wayed," and we all know what that's like. :shake:
.

[Skyy God]

He started as a garbage time QB, then had a few 4Q comebacks, and now he’s reverted. BOB trading Hopkins for a bag of moldy dicks didn’t help.

[tredadda]

Sounds like they're trying to trade away the rest of his WRs too LMAO

At this point they might as well dump everyone except Watson and start over. They already are on course to pick in the top 5 which Miami gets. They need to rebuild from the horrid situation BOB put them in and they need to do it from the ground up.

[OKchiefs]

I remember in the offseason when dipshit Texans fans said he'd be better without Hopkins because he'd be forced to spread it around more. Yeah, about that.

[New World Order]

Even though they traded Hopkins his weapons aren't really that bad.

[RunKC]

The guy doesn’t have his best weapon or a HC worth a shit. Of course he looks worse.

Take away Andy and Kelce and Pat is not the same QB.

[Buehler445]

I've been saying for fucking years Hopkins catches an awful lot of fuck it chuck it balls Watson wings in his general direction.

Hopkins is really REALLY fucking good at 50/50 balls.

[BWillie]

He's a good player but he has a ceiling. He has terrible arm strength, but he makes up for it by manipulating himself in the pocket or outside of the pocket to create a window to throw. He is a playmaker but can find himself making mistakes.

If you make me choose between him or Josh Allen, man I don't really know what I'd do.

[Why Not?]

A combination of bad coaching, no O line, and media overhype have combined to set him up to fail.

[OKchiefs]

He's a good player but he has a ceiling. He has terrible arm strength, but he makes up for it by manipulating himself in the pocket or outside of the pocket to create a window to throw. He is a playmaker but can find himself making mistakes.

If you make me choose between him or Josh Allen, man I don't really know what I'd do.

Yep. Relatively speaking he's always had a noodle arm, so as he ages and slows down/loses arm strength I don't see him remaining competitive well into his 30s.

[ThaVirus]

Even though they traded Hopkins his weapons aren't really that bad.

They're not horrible, but you just can't trade away a top 3 WR while you're trying to develop a QB.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

"He's better than Mahomes." - Deberg

[htismaqe]

He's a good player but he has a ceiling. He has terrible arm strength, but he makes up for it by manipulating himself in the pocket or outside of the pocket to create a window to throw. He is a playmaker but can find himself making mistakes.

If you make me choose between him or Josh Allen, man I don't really know what I'd do.

He plays too tentative. He holds the ball too long. I happen to agree with the OP - he's not a top 10 QB. He's young and that's really the only thing desirable about him.

[htismaqe]

Trading Hopkins didn't screw Watson, it EXPOSED him.

Watson was used to throwing low probability passes and watching Hopkins' exceptional catch radius bail him out.

Watson isn't great and all BOB did was show people that.

[BWillie]

He plays too tentative. He holds the ball too long. I happen to agree with the OP - he's not a top 10 QB. He's young and that's really the only thing desirable about him.

He does, but you have to think part of that is coaching and not calling effective plays to help him out. Maybe not having a complete buffoon at coach will help. I hope Bieniemy goes there, because I like the kid (Watson). And I don't really see them as a real threat to Mahomes.

[Deberg_1990]

Who do we rank above Watson ?

Mahomes
Wilson
Rogers
Brees
L Jackson
Wentz
Stafford
Tannehill
Brady
Roethlisberg
Kyler Murray
Josh Allen

Not sure all these guys are above him? Hes a fringe top 10 guy.

[htismaqe]

He does, but you have to think part of that is coaching and not calling effective plays to help him out. Maybe not having a complete buffoon at coach will help. I hope Bieniemy goes there, because I like the kid (Watson). And I don't really see them as a real threat to Mahomes.

Watson's propensity to hold the ball too long has nothing to do with play calling. It's purely Watson's problem. Perhaps it could be coached out of him but it really shouldn't have to be if he's as good as everybody thinks he is.

[dlphg9]

This dude getting the Alex Smith treatment from CP. Blame everyone but the QB. Well his receivers suck, he needs more talent around him. Well he's got the talent, but that God damn coach isn't calling plays that play to his strengths. He has no time behind that Oline. Gotta fucking get better talent to protect him. He's a good QB, but he's gonna be a Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan.

[Flying High D]

“Who ever drafts him gets Michael Jordan on the football field” Dabo Swinney

Which Michael Jordan was he talking about? The one that works for Goodwill doing custodial
Duties at the Department of the Treasury?

[Megatron96]

Who do we rank about Watson?

Mahomes
Wilson
Rogers
Brees
L Jackson
Wentz
Stafford
Tannehill
Brady
Roethlisberg
Kyler Murray
Josh Allen

Not sure all these guys are above him? Hes a fringe top 10 guy.

Josh Allen is not a better QB than Watson. No way, not right now at least, and I don't care what their stats read.

[dlphg9]

Who do we rank about Watson?

Mahomes
Wilson
Rogers
Brees
L Jackson
Wentz
Stafford
Tannehill
Brady
Roethlisberg
Kyler Murray
Josh Allen

Not sure all these guys are above him? Hes a fringe top 10 guy.

I'd remove Wentz from that list, but I'd put more names on it. Guys I'd take for sure right now over

Mahomes
Wilson
Rogers
Brees
L Jackson
Stafford
Tannehill
Brady
Roethlisberg
Kyler Murray
Josh Allen
Jared Goff
Derek Carr

I would consider taking these guys over him

Burrow
Herbert

I know it's not a perfect way to judge a QBs performance, but looking at QBR Watson has been a roller coaster and peaked his rookie season with an 83.6 during 6 starts that year and hasn't come close to that number again.

2017 - 83.6
2018 - 60.7
2019 - 71.2
2020 - 71.1

His rookie year if he had continued that pace and become a qualifier he would have been far above everyone as the highest rated QB that year. Since then he has been ranked

'18 - 15th
'19 - 7th
'20 - 15th

I'm not saying that he has been terrible, but God damn eventually you gotta place a little blame on the player.

[ModSocks]

He's a good QB on a bad team with worse coaching.

Romeo Fucking Crennel, guys, c'mon.

[Deberg_1990]

He's a good QB on a bad team with worse coaching.

Romeo ****ing Crennel, guys, c'mon.

but Crennel gets credit for developing Derek Anderson

[ModSocks]

I'd remove Wentz from that list, but I'd put more names on it. Guys I'd take for sure right now over

Mahomes
Wilson
Rogers
Brees
L Jackson
Stafford
Tannehill
Brady
Roethlisberg
Kyler Murray
Josh Allen
Jared Goff
Derek Carr

I would consider taking these guys over him

Burrow
Herbert

I know it's not a perfect way to judge a QBs performance, but looking at QBR Watson has been a roller coaster and peaked his rookie season with an 83.6 during 6 starts that year and hasn't come close to that number again.

2017 - 83.6
2018 - 60.7
2019 - 71.2
2020 - 71.1

His rookie year if he had continued that pace and become a qualifier he would have been far above everyone as the highest rated QB that year. Since then he has been ranked

'18 - 15th
'19 - 7th
'20 - 15th

I'm not saying that he has been terrible, but God damn eventually you gotta place a little blame on the player.


Brees - He's better than Brees right now, no doubt.
Stafford -Has never won anything, aging.
Tannehill - He's better than Tannehill. Tannehill has a far superior team and coaching staff.
Brady - GMAFB. Give Watson those weapons and see what happens. Brady is still an immobile douche who's about to retire.
Roethlisberg - The guy who just threw 3 INTS and who's passing game is mostly a bunch of screen and short throws?
Jared Goff -Another GMAFB...
Derek Carr - :rolleyes:

Burrow - Still has a lot to prove
Herbert - Still has a lot to prove

[htismaqe]

Tannehill - He's better than Tannehill. Tannehill has a far superior team and coaching staff.

No. Just no.

[St. Patty's Fire]

No. Just no.

Ya I can't agree with that in any way.

Foles got hot a few times. Tannehill has been consistently very good since going to Tennessee. Getting away from Adam Gase probably helped. He also flashed plenty of potential under Gase, but he had issues staying healthy.

Foles is just Fitzpatrick with a ring.

edit: thought I was in the Foles thread lmao

[Buehler445]

Trading Hopkins didn't screw Watson, it EXPOSED him.

Watson was used to throwing low probability passes and watching Hopkins' exceptional catch radius bail him out.

Watson isn't great and all BOB did was show people that.

Exactly. Watsons always been a fuck it chuck it guy. All the way back to college.

I've been saying for fucking years Hopkins catches an awful lot of fuck it chuck it balls Watson wings in his general direction.

Hopkins is really REALLY fucking good at 50/50 balls.

[ModSocks]

No. Just no.

What part is no?

You don't think Watson could replicate and even do better than Tannehill if they swapped teams?

[ModSocks]

Ya I can't agree with that in any way.

Foles got hot a few times. Tannehill has been consistently very good since going to Tennessee. Getting away from Adam Gase probably helped. He also flashed plenty of potential under Gase, but he had issues staying healthy.

Foles is just Fitzpatrick with a ring.

We talkin' Foles or Watson?

[St. Patty's Fire]

We talkin' Foles or Watson?

i thought i was in the foles/nagy thread when i posted that lmao

Watson is a totally different story. I think he's a bit overrated but if he were on the Titans I think he'd be pretty beast

[htismaqe]

What part is no?

You don't think Watson could replicate and even do better than Tannehill if they swapped teams?

Nope, I don't.

[Deberg_1990]

Nope, I don't.

You dont think Andy Reid could coach Watson up?

[htismaqe]

You dont think Andy Reid could coach Watson up?

I don't think Watson could handle the offense. He's not a precision QB, he's a spray and pray QB most of the time.

[Deberg_1990]

He's not a precision QB, he's a spray and pray QB most of the time.

Yea, guys like that are going to look spectacular at times, then horrible at others.

[Megatron96]

At least this year, Wentz has proven that he's better than Watson. Wentz has found a way to be productive with a cast of practice squad players, at pretty much every skill position. Watson still has some legit starters, albeit not a WR1 or a RB1, but has pretty much regressed so far.

[htismaqe]

At least this year, Wentz has proven that he's better than Watson. Wentz has found a way to be productive with a cast of practice squad players, at pretty much every skill position. Watson still has some legit starters, albeit not a WR1 or a RB1, but has pretty much regressed so far.

Because outside of his injury problems, Wentz is still a smart, accurate QB for the most part.

Watson absolutely had Hopkins as a safety blanket. Just chuck it up there and let Hopkins take care of it. Without that, Watson becomes very ordinary. He needs a DK Metcalf guy out there.

[RunKC]

Watson needs coaching very badly. Things like his pocket roaming and footwork can absolutely be corrected.

Watson would be a much better QB here under Andy. Take a look at how out of control Patrick’s footwork was in his first preseason to the beginning of his 2nd year.

Watson has a career 100+ Rating playing out of control. If he gets a good coach with better weapons he can be very good.

But regardless of that, he’s still a top 10 QB.

[Megatron96]

Because outside of his injury problems, Wentz is still a smart, accurate QB for the most part.

Watson absolutely had Hopkins as a safety blanket. Just chuck it up there and let Hopkins take care of it. Without that, Watson becomes very ordinary. He needs a DK Metcalf guy out there.

Well, Wentz has plenty of purely boneheaded plays on his resumé as well, but overall yeah, Wentz is the more savvy QB to this point. And mostly Wentz is more consistently accurate.

Deshaun can be accurate, but he throws a lot of 'off-center' throws. I noticed it last season or the one before in a couple games where he inexplicably threw balls that DHop had to make some incredible athletic move just to catch what should've been a routine pitch and catch. A couple of them cost them TDs, because Hopkins had to either go back and get the pass, or he had to launch himself 5 yards and twist around to make a catch, that if those had hit him in the hands he would've walked into the EZ. And on the two I remember fairly well, he wasn't under pressure. He could've jsut set his feet and made a normal overhand throw 7 yards or 10 yards and "badda-bing!," touchdown. Instead, he tried some sidearm nonsense, and the ball required Hopkins to do some crazy shit just to catch it, so he got tackled or he was laying on the ground for the easy touch.

But more than that, I blame Billy for Watson's issues more than Watson. That offense was never good. It always looked choppy and inefficient. They shot themselves in the foot more often than not. And Watson spent way too many snaps reading through 4 receivers; where were the quick short throws to set up the longer ones? Why couldn't Billy ever scheme up some easy one or two read plays?

Again, if you gave Watson to Andy or Payton or some other QB guru, Watson would be a much better QB at this point, IMO. Billy did his best to not only ruin the team, he ruined his franchise QB as well.

[Chief Roundup]

WOW never go full dlphg9.

[DRM08]

He’s definitely Top 10. Let’s be honest here. Once you get past the very short list of elite QB’s (Wilson/Mahomes/Rodgers), a lot of the guys in Top 15 are pretty similar to each other.

[dlphg9]

WOW never go full dlphg9.

Thanks for the discussion.

[dlphg9]

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that a significant amount of people that have commented in this thread, but didn't read the OP. All you guys look at is the title and you disagree with it and decide to comment an emotionally fueled response that is backed with 0 evidence.

[Chief Roundup]

Thanks for the discussion.

Not worth any discussion. You are simply wrong about many of the points in your post.

[chiefzilla1501]

He's a decent qb and I think we'd be happy to have him if not mahomes. But Ive always wondered how he'd look without the DeAndre Hopkins jumpball. Hasn't been great so far.

[Red Dawg]

He's a decent qb and I think we'd be happy to have him if not mahomes. But Ive always wondered how he'd look without the DeAndre Hopkins jumpball. Hasn't been great so far.

Like Brady without Gronk last year. Not so good.

[FloridaMan88]

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that a significant amount of people that have commented in this thread, but didn't read the OP. All you guys look at is the title and you disagree with it and decide to comment an emotionally fueled response that is backed with 0 evidence.

List the 10 NFL QB’s you would currently take ahead of Watson.

Obviously Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and I’ll throw Tom Brady in there as well.

Who else?

[Red Dawg]

List the 10 NFL QB’s you would currently take ahead of Watson.

Obviously Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and I’ll throw Tom Brady in there as well.

Who else?
Big Ben.

[Red Dawg]

Tyler Murray.

[FloridaMan88]

Big Ben.

I’d take Watson over a 38 year old Rapelithsberger.

[htismaqe]

He’s definitely Top 10. Let’s be honest here. Once you get past the very short list of elite QB’s (Wilson/Mahomes/Rodgers), a lot of the guys in Top 15 are pretty similar to each other.

This is true. A few really good QB's and a whole lot of meh.

[St. Patty's Fire]

List the 10 NFL QB’s you would currently take ahead of Watson.

Obviously Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and I’ll throw Tom Brady in there as well.

Who else?

Me, personally: Kyler and Wentz. Then we get into the arguable range. The likes of Allen, Lamar, Stafford, Prescott, Big Ben, Jimmy G, Tannehill, etc. I'd take Watson over most of those guys at this point myself, but I could understand if someone thinks that like Dak or Lamar are better. Then there are players like Burrow and Herbert who are less proven, but may eclipse him in the somewhat near future. Burrow is pretty close.

Listing it out, I think he's top-10, even if he's a bit more topsy turvy than some of the other guys on this list. I'd get it if someone else picks a bunch of these QBs over him, though.

[CarlosCarson27]

Watson has about 500 more passing yards than Mahomes
I'm not saying it means anything. i'm
just saying I bothered to look it up just now lol.
Stats are fun

[St. Patty's Fire]

Watson has about 500 more passing yards than Mahomes
I'm not saying it means anything. i'm
just saying I bothered to look it up just now lol.
Stats are fun

500 more yards in 6 more starts

looking at raw numbers instead of rates is fun

[DRM08]

500 more yards in 6 more starts

looking at raw numbers instead of rates is fun

In this pass happy era, I don’t think the raw stats will show much difference. Where it really shows up is 3rd down conversion percentage, especially 3rd and Long conversion percentage. This is where Mahomes really shines for his career.

[CarlosCarson27]

500 more yards in 6 more starts

looking at raw numbers instead of rates is fun

Like I said it means nothing. At least not that he's better or not.but it does prove be keeps up in the nfl.

[Deberg_1990]

I’d take Watson over a 38 year old Rapelithsberger.

I wonder how much Roth has left in the tank? He doesn’t strike me as a guy who takes great care of himself.

[kccrow]

Yeah, I don't think he's out of the top 10.

Losing your go-to guy in all situations hurts a lot. That O-line is NOT all that good no matter how you spin it. They are the 3rd worst rushing team in the league. Will Fuller and Brandon Cooks are inconsistent receivers and so is Fells at TE.

Just a world of inconsistency and subpar play around him, and that reflects in his play. He has his shortcomings but I'd still take him over a whole bunch of QBs in the NFL.

Guys I can't put him over:

Mahomes
Rodgers
Wilson
Brees

Guys I think he's pretty much on par with:
Brady
Allen
Burrow
Prescott
Murray
Goff
Tannehill
Allen
Roethlisberger

I'd put him above the rest for sure.

If I were starting a team today and had to pick from that 2nd list, the only guy I'd take over him is Burrow.

[St. Patty's Fire]

In this pass happy era, I don’t think the raw stats will show much difference. Where it really shows up is 3rd down conversion percentage, especially 3rd and Long conversion percentage. This is where Mahomes really shines for his career.

Raw stats are extremely misleading in basically any sport. Personally, i couldn't give two fucks about how many yards or TDs Mahomes, or any QB really, throws for as long as he directs the offense and comes up when it matters most. Like the Super Bowl. His raw numbers weren't very good but he won the game by coming up big when it mattered, and in the end that's really what we care about.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, I don't think he's out of the top 10.

Losing your go-to guy in all situations hurts a lot. That O-line is NOT all that good no matter how you spin it. They are the 3rd worst rushing team in the league. Will Fuller and Brandon Cooks are inconsistent receivers and so is Fells at TE.

Just a world of inconsistency and subpar play around him, and that reflects in his play. He has his shortcomings but I'd still take him over a whole bunch of QBs in the NFL.

Guys I can't put him over:

Mahomes
Rodgers
Wilson
Brees

Guys I think he's pretty much on par with:
Brady
Allen
Burrow
Prescott
Murray
Goff
Tannehill
Allen
Roethlisberger

I'd put him above the rest for sure.

If I were starting a team today and had to pick from that 2nd list, the only guy I'd take over him is Burrow.

Of course he's in the conversation for starting a team - he's young.

In fact, that's the main reason he's getting the benefit of the doubt here.

[DRM08]

Raw stats are extremely misleading in basically any sport. Personally, i couldn't give two fucks about how many yards or TDs Mahomes, or any QB really, throws for as long as he directs the offense and comes up when it matters most. Like the Super Bowl. His raw numbers weren't very good but he won the game by coming up big when it mattered, and in the end that's really what we care about.

Yeah, there are some QB’s that benefit a lot from garbage time stats in games they don’t win. Deshaun has benefited from it. Prescott is another one. Kirk Cousins is another one. The raw stats look nice on the surface, but are pretty worthless when you really dig into the details.

[kccrow]

Of course he's in the conversation for starting a team - he's young.

In fact, that's the main reason he's getting the benefit of the doubt here.

If helps, I'd put him squarely above everyone on my second list right now except Brady and Rothlisberger if it's a win now situation. I think he's just a better player in a bad situation than most of those other guys.

I don't think team stats like scoring in the 1st quarter and shit like that much apply to Watson's skill or stating he sucks. That's the whole offense failing to produce. He can't make receivers get open, make his line block, make his running backs not run into the back of their linemen for 2 yards and a cloud of dust.

[htismaqe]

If helps, I'd put him squarely above everyone on my second list right now except Brady and Rothlisberger if it's a win now situation. I think he's just a better player in a bad situation than most of those other guys.

I don't think team stats like scoring in the 1st quarter and shit like that much apply to Watson's skill or stating he sucks. That's the whole offense failing to produce. He can't make receivers get open, make his line block, make his running backs not run into the back of their linemen for 2 yards and a cloud of dust.

I don't know man. He doesn't have tremendous pocket presence, holds the ball too long, lacks plus arm strength, doesn't have great accuracy. I think he's thoroughly mediocre, despite all the external issues.

[Nickhead]

umm, i think this would be a case where too soon is soon enough...

are the texans linebackers on suicide watch? ;)

[scho63]

A good to above average QB can be great with all the pieces around him.

Deshawn Watson should be better than what he is. I blame the fiasco that is the Texans for suppressing his talent

[kccrow]

I don't know man. He doesn't have tremendous pocket presence, holds the ball too long, lacks plus arm strength, doesn't have great accuracy. I think he's thoroughly mediocre, despite all the external issues.

We may have to agree to disagree on the pocket presence and arm strength. He has occasional lapses in accuracy but overall I don't think it's bad at all. Holding the ball too long, I see that primarily when his receivers can't get an ounce of separation. Sometimes he needs to just toss it away and live for the next down.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Three words...

They traded Hopkins

[htismaqe]

Three words...

They traded Hopkins

Watson really isn't a precision passer, especially deep.

Hopkins has a gigantic catch radius. Watson could just throw it up.

Like I said before, trading Hopkins didn't hurt Watson, it EXPOSED him.

[Red Dawg]

Like I said it means nothing. At least not that he's better or not.but it does prove be keeps up in the nfl.

Football is not a game of numbers like baseball for instance. Numbers say Stafford and Rivers are first ballot all time greats but we all know they aren't.

[MahiMike]

Herbert or watson?

[JakeF]

If you are the Texans should you trade Watson to help rebuild?

Their window has closed, why waste Watson's career?

Trade him for two 1st round picks and go full rebuild?

[htismaqe]

If you are the Texans, should you trade Watson to help rebuild?

Their window has closed, why waste Watson's career?

Trade him for two 1st round picks and go full rebuild?

His contract might not be easy to trade.

There's a potential out year in 2024 but in 2022 and 2023 he's going to cost over $40M against the cap. His base salary balloons from $10.5M next year to $35M in 2022.

[ModSocks]

If you are the Texans, should you trade Watson to help rebuild?

Their window has closed, why waste Watson's career?

Trade him for two 1st round picks and go full rebuild?

:facepalm:

You have the dumbest ideas.

[rico]

God I would hate to be a Texans fan right now.... Watson fucking sucks.

[Eureka]

The Texans year is done. Just use that top draft capital to help rebuild the team.

[MahomesMagic]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lvpoKUVUKeI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RealSNR]

The Texans year is done. Just use that top draft capital to help rebuild the team.

That "top draft capital" is the property of the Miami Dolphins

[Deberg_1990]

Whatever the case, i imagine the Texans HC job would be somewhat attractive because Watson is young and proven.

[htismaqe]

Whatever the case, i imagine the Texans HC job would be somewhat attractive because Watson is young and proven.

FYP

[Pitt Gorilla]

QBR has him at 14, with Fitz at 5!

[Eureka]

Whatever the case, i imagine the Texans HC job would be somewhat attractive because Watson is young and proven.

Jim Harbaugh to the Texans?

[Chitownchiefsfan]

I stopped reading when he said bob wasn't a bad head coach.

[Megatron96]

I stopped reading when he said bob wasn't a bad head coach.

:clap:

[JakeF]

His contract might not be easy to trade.

There's a potential out year in 2024 but in 2022 and 2023 he's going to cost over $40M against the cap. His base salary balloons from $10.5M next year to $35M in 2022.
Welp, that ends that idea.

[mililo4cpa]

Who cares? If you're not elite, then what does it matter.

Watson is obviously a starter in this league and has some great plays on his resume.....
but he's never going to be the guy to put a team on his shoulders and carry them when everything is breaking down around him (say like down 20-10 in the Super Bowl with 10 mins left).....Heck, he was spotted 24 points in the playoffs and got blew out....

He can certainly win games in this league with the right talent around him, but that's about the extent of it....and that's probably about the same as 15 - 20 other QBs in the league....

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Give a man corn hole and he will chew on your liver the rest of his life

[BlackOp]

That "top draft capital" is the property of the Miami Dolphins

Dont they have the Texans 1st and 2nd rounder? Dolphins could get good pretty quickly if Tua pans out.

[WhiteWhale]

I'll say this: for whatever reason the sports media annointed Watson and are far less critical of him than other qbs.

[DRM08]

I'll say this: for whatever reason the sports media annointed Watson and are far less critical of him than other qbs.

That is true. His success at Clemson is carrying over into media coverage of him these days. But if you dig through Houston Texans fan forums, you will find that they know he holds the ball too long and doesn't read defenses as well as you would want for a $39M per year QB.

One of my biggest knocks on Deshaun is that he tries to run over defenders. He is not smart at all about sliding or going out of bounds. If the team expects you to be a franchise QB for 15-20 years, you damn well better get smart about this aspect of the game. People talk about Lamar Jackson being a short term QB in this league due to running so much, but he has a much smarter approach to avoid hits compared to Deshaun.

[Eureka]

That "top draft capital" is the property of the Miami Dolphins

Yeah, my sarcasm wasn't shinning through enough.

Texans have everyone but a few players on the trading block. Also, they probably won't have their first pick until pick 68?

At least their cap situation isn't horrible.

[ModSocks]

Ya'll are doing in this thread what the "experts" do when evaluating college talent: Judging the player by the team instead of the player himself.

The Texans ARE Deshaun Watson. There's no one else.

They feature a RB that was washed up two seasons ago.

Brandin Cooks who's what, on his 4th team in 6 seasons? When the Patriots, Rams and Saints decide they don't need you, that says something.

Will Fuller who is, IMO, the most over rated WR in the league. He runs fast, big whoop. He has stone hands, he always injured and he doesn't change a defensive game plan unless there's a real #1 on the other side.

30 Year old Randall Cobb, an aging roster with NO DEPTH at all and what quite possibly could be the worst HC in the league. (Yeah we all remember the Romeo Crennel season, don't we?)

Give this guy a stable front office, a creative HC and OC, and some legit weapons (you know, the things every successful young QB gets).

The tools are all there. It's undeniable. Now get him some help so he can actually develop those tools into success.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, my sarcasm wasn't shinning through enough.

Texans have everyone but a few players on the trading block. Also, they probably won't have their first pick until pick 68?

At least their cap situation isn't horrible.

They have a couple of bad contracts - Tunsil for sure.

[ModSocks]

Who cares? If you're not elite, then what does it matter.

Watson is obviously a starter in this league and has some great plays on his resume.....
but he's never going to be the guy to put a team on his shoulders and carry them when everything is breaking down around him (say like down 20-10 in the Super Bowl with 10 mins left).....Heck, he was spotted 24 points in the playoffs and got blew out....

He can certainly win games in this league with the right talent around him, but that's about the extent of it....and that's probably about the same as 15 - 20 other QBs in the league....

If you're setting the bar at "He's not Patrick Mahomes", that's a pretty damn unrealistic standard.

[htismaqe]

If you're setting the bar at "He's not Patrick Mahomes", that's a pretty damn unrealistic standard.

I'm not sure he's even Dak Prescott or Derek Carr.

I'm just not that high on Watson. He's physically gifted but has some fairly significant mental issues, IMO. I'm not sure he's ever going to be a top 1/3 QB.

[ModSocks]

I'm not sure he's even Dak Prescott or Derek Carr.

Oh C'mon. You wanna argue Dak i'll hear you because he's criminally under rated. Carr was the laughing stock of the AFCW until Gruden got him a shiny new Ruggs, a top 5 RB and a top OL.

I'm just not that high on Watson. He's physically gifted but has some fairly significant mental issues, IMO. I'm not sure he's ever going to be a top 1/3 QB.

Get him some coaching who will mold the offense to his skill set, like Jackson, Murray, Mahomes etc. He doesn't have significant mental issues, he just needs a damn scheme to help him out while he grows.

Will he be top 1-3? Probably not ever as long as Mahomes and Wilson are around.

But top 10? For sure. You can build and sustain a good offense around this guy for years to come.

[htismaqe]

Get him some coaching who will mold the offense to his skill set, like Jackson, Murray, Mahomes etc. He doesn't have significant mental issues, he just needs a damn scheme to help him out while he grows.

Will he be top 1-3? Probably not ever as long as Mahomes and Wilson are around.

But top 10? For sure. You can build and sustain a good offense around this guy for years to come.

What Watson needs is a WR that can go up and bring down jump balls. He's just not ever going to be a precision QB.

[ModSocks]

What Watson needs is a WR that can go up and bring down jump balls. He's just not ever going to be a precision QB.

We may never know.

But i think he just needs an OC that can give him some schematic advantages. Bieniemy just might be that guy, idk.

[DRM08]

If you're setting the bar at "He's not Patrick Mahomes", that's a pretty damn unrealistic standard.

Not when their contracts are essentially the same thing for the same time period. Both being paid around $39M per year in the 4-year period of Deshaun's deal.

[ModSocks]

Not when their contracts are essentially the same thing for the same time period. Both being paid around $39M per year in the 4-year period of Deshaun's deal.

That's the nature of NFL contracts though. NFL contracts have never been about paying players based on their positional rank, ESPECIALLY with QB's.

It's always been "Next man up, next biggest contract", particularly with QB's.

There's going to be plenty of QB's making more than Mahomes as time goes on. Lets not forget that Mahomes was ridiculed for his "team friendly deal", mostly because of the contract length allegedly not allowing him to renegotiate a better deal a few years from now.

The complaint from national media pundits has been, "Oh so-and-so will make more money therefore Mahomes was stupid to make that deal".

[DRM08]

That's the nature of NFL contracts though. NFL contracts have never been about paying players based on their positional rank, ESPECIALLY with QB's.

It's always been "Next man up, next biggest contract", particularly with QB's.

There's going to be plenty of QB's making more than Mahomes as time goes on. Lets not forget that Mahomes was ridiculed for his "team friendly deal", mostly because of the contract length allegedly not allowing him to renegotiate a better deal a few years from now.

The complaint from national media pundits has been, "Oh so-and-so will make more money therefore Mahomes was stupid to make that deal".

I'm aware of all that. Still not unfair to hold Deshaun to a very high standard when he got paid top dollar in his contract.

[dlphg9]

I stopped reading when he said bob wasn't a bad head coach.

He wasn't a bad head coach. The Texans have 6 division titles and 4 of those came when BOB was head coach. He had 1 full season in which the Texans didn't win 9 or more games. I'm not saying he's great by any means, but he damn sure isn't terrible. I'd take him over Jon Gruden or Jeff Fischer. He's an average to maybe slightly above average HC. If he didn't get to ruin the team by being GM he'd still be there and the Texans would be in decent shape.

[htismaqe]

He wasn't a bad head coach. The Texans have 6 division titles and 4 of those came when BOB was head coach. He had 1 full season in which the Texans didn't win 9 or more games. I'm not saying he's great by any means, but he damn sure isn't terrible. I'd take him over Jon Gruden or Jeff Fischer. He's an average to maybe slightly above average HC. If he didn't get to ruin the team by being GM he'd still be there and the Texans would be in decent shape.

Yep.

[kccrow]

Ya'll are doing in this thread what the "experts" do when evaluating college talent: Judging the player by the team instead of the player himself.

The Texans ARE Deshaun Watson. There's no one else.

They feature a RB that was washed up two seasons ago.

Brandin Cooks who's what, on his 4th team in 6 seasons? When the Patriots, Rams and Saints decide they don't need you, that says something.

Will Fuller who is, IMO, the most over rated WR in the league. He runs fast, big whoop. He has stone hands, he always injured and he doesn't change a defensive game plan unless there's a real #1 on the other side.

30 Year old Randall Cobb, an aging roster with NO DEPTH at all and what quite possibly could be the worst HC in the league. (Yeah we all remember the Romeo Crennel season, don't we?)

Give this guy a stable front office, a creative HC and OC, and some legit weapons (you know, the things every successful young QB gets).

The tools are all there. It's undeniable. Now get him some help so he can actually develop those tools into success.

Someone I actually agree with in this thread. 100%

[crayzkirk]

I've said more than once that behind every great QB is a coach ready to take the credit. I will also say that in the wrong environment, even a good QB will struggle. Watson is a good QB in a bad situation. He takes a lot of sacks; is the cause the offensive line, the play calling or his own inability to read the play quickly enough? I don't know. He seems to have a lot of the qualities that makes a good professional QB.

A bad coach can ruin a good QB while a great QB can make a bad coach look average.

[WhiteWhale]

If you're setting the bar at "He's not Patrick Mahomes", that's a pretty damn unrealistic standard.

Yeah, but the national media guys do it all the time.

Last year in the playoffs all I heard was that watson was just as good and would have all the same success.

All while they claim the only thing that saved patrick from being a bust is the genius of Reid (who wasnt considered a genius until AFTER mahomes got here) and the fact that alex smith taught him how to play quarterback.

By golly, if watson had that, he'd be the best ever.

I like watson, but he gets a pass other guys do not, and they spent a lot of time pretending he didn't have an all time great to throw at.

[dlphg9]

Ya'll are doing in this thread what the "experts" do when evaluating college talent: Judging the player by the team instead of the player himself.


In college you can have a great/elite QB and have a completely mediocre team, but how often does that same scenario happen in the NFL? How often do great QBs lead their NFL teams to a 3-4 win season? Hell even average to slightly above average QBs can win their team a handful of games.

Look at Matt Ryan, I'd put him in that great QB column and hes had a one 4 win season and one 6 win season in 13 years.

Matt Stafford since becoming the full time starter has only one 4 win season and one 6 win season.

Ryan Tannehill lowest win total was 6 while he was with the trash Dolphins and had to play the Patriots 2 times a season. He won 7 games or more in every other season with them.

Kirk Cousins started 3 seasons for the shit hole Washington Redskins and won 9, 8, and 7 games in those seasons he started.

Matt Schaub while with the Texans

07 4-7
08 6-5
09 9-7
10 6-10
11 7-3
12 12-4
13 2-6

In the NFL all you need is an average QB to not be completely terrible. Watson is on pace for 2 wins this season, but some of you wanna act like he's some great QB that's being held back by everyone. Great QBs don't have 2 win seasons no matter how bad the coaching or team is.

[Megatron96]

In college you can have a great/elite QB and have a completely mediocre team, but how often does that same scenario happen in the NFL? How often do great QBs lead their NFL teams to a 3-4 win season? Hell even average to slightly above average QBs can win their team a handful of games.

Look at Matt Ryan, I'd put him in that great QB column and hes had a one 4 win season and one 6 win season in 13 years.

Matt Stafford since becoming the full time starter has only one 4 win season and one 6 win season.

Ryan Tannehill lowest win total was 6 while he was with the trash Dolphins and had to play the Patriots 2 times a season. He won 7 games or more in every other season with them.

Kirk Cousins started 3 seasons for the shit hole Washington Redskins and won 9, 8, and 7 games in those seasons he started.

Matt Schaub while with the Texans

07 4-7
08 6-5
09 9-7
10 6-10
11 7-3
12 12-4
13 2-6

In the NFL all you need is an average QB to not be completely terrible. Watson is on pace for 2 wins this season, but some of you wanna act like he's some great QB that's being held back by everyone. Great QBs don't have 2 win seasons no matter how bad the coaching or team is.

Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.

[WhiteWhale]

Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.

Drew brees was terrible in 2003.

Remember what happened that offseason?

The rest tend to be guys at the very beginning or end of their careers.

And even then, exceptions dont disprove a rule. Even if watson loses a bunch this year, I still think it's an exception to something overwhelmingly true in 2020.

[dlphg9]

Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.

Montana

1980 - 2nd season in league and not even full time starter. I'm not gonna count that record since he hadn't proven he could do anything and it takes time for some QBs to adjust.

1982 - 3 wins in 9 games is still more than Watson's 1 win. We will see how many he ends up with. To be fair Joe was injured in game 2. I'd be willing to bet he was playing injured in those last 7 games.

Brees

2003 - was his 3rd season in the league and was clearly not the QB he would become.

Namath

1976 - Was clearly way past his prime and it was his last year in NY. After the next season he retired.

Palmer - He had the Raiders at 4-5 in 2011, so I'm counting that as a win. So he had 4 wins in 2010 in his last year in Cinci and 4 wins in 2012 in his last year with Oakland. Clearly he was in the worst situation of pretty much all of these QBs.

[Megatron96]

Montana

1980 - 2nd season in league and not even full time starter. I'm not gonna count that record since he hadn't proven he could do anything and it takes time for some QBs to adjust.

1982 - 3 wins in 9 games is still more than Watson's 1 win. We will see how many he ends up with. To be fair Joe was injured in game 2. I'd be willing to bet he was playing injured in those last 7 games.

Brees

2003 - was his 3rd season in the league and was clearly not the QB he would become.

Namath

1976 - Was clearly way past his prime and it was his last year in NY. After the next season he retired.

Palmer - He had the Raiders at 4-5 in 2011, so I'm counting that as a win. So he had 4 wins in 2010 in his last year in Cinci and 4 wins in 2012 in his last year with Oakland. Clearly he was in the worst situation of pretty much all of these QBs.

Hey, I’m not gonna disagree with you. My only point was is that there’s plenty of great quarterbacks out there that had a bad start to a season. And I’m not even saying that Watson is great. I do think he’s pretty good, and i believe that Billy never designed a really great offense around him. But I don’t believe that is a top-five quarterback.

I don’t think you’re giving him his due though when you say that you think Derek Carr is better than Watson. Because I can’t figure out how that’s possible. Watson is certainly tougher than Carr; he played a bunch of games while having a punctured lung, ffs. He doesn’t panic like Derek and start throwing interceptions all over the field. He’s obviously a lot more athletic and he can make throws from platforms that Derek can’t even imagine.

Id even have to say that he’s probably better than Tannehill as well. Obviously Tannehill is improved quite a bit since his days in Miami, or the end of the day he still kind of the same one dimensional quarterback. Because once you take away the run game and he can’t run play action, he’s kind of skittish in the pocket and he starts getting blinders and throwing footballs were they really shouldn’t go.

Watson doesn’t really do that. Again I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s got more talent and skills than Tannehill. Tannehill has to have a great running game, above average receivers, and a good defense, or he’s basically a league average quarterback.

Meanwhile, Watson’s been playing with a bad offense of line, a rotation of not great running backs, basically one offensive weapon, and aside from a decent pass rush, one of the worst defenses in the last 3-4 years. Yet in spite of all of that, he still managed to win 10 or 11 games a year, until 2020.

And in 2020 they started their season playing the defending Super Bowl champions in week one, The Baltimore ravens, the Steelers who ESPN has ranked as the best team in the NFL, the Vikings a playoff team from 2019, Tennessee a team that made it to the AFC conference game, And green bay the team that went to the NFC championship game. That has to be about the toughest schedule to open the season as I’ve seen in more than a decade.

[dlphg9]

Lol DeAndre Hopkins showing you all how he made Deshaun relevant and Deshaun showed you all that hes basically Alex Smith.

[RealSNR]

I hate this Colin Cowherd take he spouts all the time. "Deshaun Watson was Patrick Mahomes before Mahomes. Then he got hurt and the rest is history..."

That's like saying "Goran Dragic was Steph Curry before Steph Curry"

[DRM08]

I hate this Colin Cowherd take he spouts all the time. "Deshaun Watson was Patrick Mahomes before Mahomes. Then he got hurt and the rest is history..."

That's like saying "Goran Dragic was Steph Curry before Steph Curry"

What Patrick does is far more sustainable than what Deshaun was doing his rookie year. We saw yesterday how much of an insane miracle worker Hopkins is. Freaking triple coverage and the dude comes down with the incredible TD catch, making Kyler Murray look good on a bad throw into coverage. Hopkins did this repeatedly for Deshaun during their time together in Houston.

You rarely see Mahomes getting bailed out by his receivers in that manner. Usually Patrick is throwing to open guys or making unbelievable throws that only his guys can catch. Sometimes his guys are open as a direct result of Patrick using his eyes to manipulate defenders and physical ability to throw no-look passes that other QB's cannot attempt.

[RunKC]

Lol DeAndre Hopkins showing you all how he made Deshaun relevant and Deshaun showed you all that hes basically Alex Smith.

Watson is basically Alex Smith?

Never go full dlphg9 (retard)

[htismaqe]

Watson is basically Alex Smith?

Never go full dlphg9 (retard)

He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.

[Megatron96]

He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.

Eh, Deshaun could have where Alex couldn't, IMO.

Deshaun is obviously a better athlete, certainly much faster and elusive than Alex. And he's more willing to go downfield.

And Alex made it to the AFCCG once, and should've won that game, if not for his overly cautious nature preventing him from taking shots downfield when he really needed to do so. And the same could be said of some of the Chiefs other playoff games with Alex at the helm.

The other way to look at it would be "if Deshaun had been the Chiefs QB in some of those playoff games and not Alex, would the Chiefs have had a better chance to win some of them?" and I think the answer is probably yes.

[RunKC]

He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.

Alex Smith’s career year was his last in KC. Watson has topped his career year (easily on pace to before getting hurt as a rookie) every single year of his career including this one without Hopkins.

He’s not in the same conversation as Alex at all. He’s significantly better.

[htismaqe]

Alex Smith’s career year was his last in KC. Watson has topped his career year (easily on pace to before getting hurt as a rookie) every single year of his career including this one without Hopkins.

He’s not in the same conversation as Alex at all. He’s significantly better.

Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.

[DRM08]

Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.

I think he's overpaid for sure. But in terms of the Alex Smith comparison, Alex did have the likes of Andy Reid, Kelce, & Tyreek boosting his stats. You put Deshaun in the Andy system with those weapons and he would probably look better than Alex. His QB coach and system designer has been Bill O'Brien. Not a very good situation for any QB.

[htismaqe]

I think he's overpaid for sure. But in terms of the Alex Smith comparison, Alex did have the likes of Andy Reid, Kelce, & Tyreek boosting his stats. You put Deshaun in the Andy system with those weapons and he would probably look better than Alex. His QB coach and system designer has been Bill O'Brien. Not a very good situation for any QB.

If Bill O'Brien held him back THAT much, he's not a top 10 QB.

Aaron Rodgers overcame Mike McCarthy. Russell Wilson has overcome Pete Carroll. You could list lots of QB's that have won in spite of their coaches.

QB's drive the NFL. Watson is not good enough to consistently do that.

[Deberg_1990]

Kyler Murray and Josh Allen have now surpassed Watson.

[DRM08]

If Bill O'Brien held him back THAT much, he's not a top 10 QB.

Aaron Rodgers overcame Mike McCarthy. Russell Wilson has overcome Pete Carroll. You could list lots of QB's that have won in spite of their coaches.

QB's drive the NFL. Watson is not good enough to consistently do that.

Fair points on Rodgers & Wilson. But I think there is a big difference between being a Top 10 QB and being an elite QB. The elite QB is very, very small group at any given time in the league. Right now I think it's only 3 guys (Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson). The 10th best QB in the league is nowhere close to a Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson in my view.

Andy Reid is pretty amazing at getting very good QB play even from 7/11 clerk type of guys. You give him Deshaun Watson and he would get pretty damn good results. Probably better than Alex Smith.

[htismaqe]

Fair points on Rodgers & Wilson. But I think there is a big difference between being a Top 10 QB and being an elite QB. The elite QB is very, very small group at any given time in the league. Right now I think it's only 3 guys (Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson). The 10th best QB in the league is nowhere close to a Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson in my view.

Andy Reid is pretty amazing at getting very good QB play even from 7/11 clerk type of guys. You give him Deshaun Watson and he would get pretty damn good results. Probably better than Alex Smith.

My problem with Watson is that he's a compiler. It's the same issue I had with Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, and several other QB's that people fawned over when they entered the league.

When you watch Watson play, especially his body language when things aren't going his way, you don't see a guy that rises to the occasion. You see a guy that basically shrugs his shoulders or pouts.

Being a true top QB in this league requires more than physical talent. It requires football IQ, desire, and the ability to rise above. I don't see those things in Watson really at all.

[DRM08]

My problem with Watson is that he's a compiler. It's the same issue I had with Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, and several other QB's that people fawned over when they entered the league.

When you watch Watson play, especially his body language when things aren't going his way, you don't see a guy that rises to the occasion. You see a guy that basically shrugs his shoulders or pouts.

Being a true top QB in this league requires more than physical talent. It requires football IQ, desire, and the ability to rise above. I don't see those things in Watson really at all.

Deshaun has racked up his fair share of garbage time stats, no doubt about it. Similar to Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins (Matt Ryan too as you mentioned).

That's one of the most amazing things about Mahomes. He's never been blown out in the NFL, so you can't accuse him of padding stats in garbage time. His team has never been down big enough to call any of their 4th quarter trailing situations "garbage time" against the prevent defense that is trying to burn clock.

[mr. tegu]

Deshaun has racked up his fair share of garbage time stats, no doubt about it. Similar to Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins (Matt Ryan too as you mentioned).

That's one of the most amazing things about Mahomes. He's never been blown out in the NFL, so you can't accuse him of padding stats in garbage time. His team has never been down big enough to call any of their 4th quarter trailing situations "garbage time" against the prevent defense that is trying to burn clock.


Mahomes would have at least 5-10 more TDs a season if they padded stats with the lead like the Ravens consistently do or Brady yesterday throwing a garbage time TD to Gronk of all people. Don’t think those two need the reps.

[RunKC]

Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.

This is relative though. Being “stuck” with Watson gives them a good chance assuming they fix the coaching and start making good personnel moves.

Technically any team that has a QB that isn’t Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers is stuck bc they likely won’t beat them unless they have much better team and coaching.

[htismaqe]

This is relative though. Being “stuck” with Watson gives them a good chance assuming they fix the coaching and start making good personnel moves.

Technically any team that has a QB that isn’t Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers is stuck bc they likely won’t beat them unless they have much better team and coaching.

A good chance at what? Even without Mahomes in the AFC, Watson just isn't a "championship" QB.

I don't get what people see in the guy, honestly, other than the athletic ability.

[MahomesMagic]

Kyler Murray and Josh Allen have now surpassed Watson.


I would take Kyler over Watson. Not Allen.

Allen has his own flaws that come out from time to time. Look at yesterday when Arizona DC started playing more man coverage and pressure. Allen threw it to the other team 4 times and could have been 5 with another terrible decision where he chucked the ball up in the air as he was falling down.

Right now Watson's value looks low but we have seen him perform at a high level for most of his career.

[RunKC]

LMAO

[Baby Lee]

This is relative though. Being “stuck” with Watson gives them a good chance assuming they fix the coaching and start making good personnel moves.

Technically any team that has a QB that isn’t Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers is stuck bc they likely won’t beat them unless they have much better team and coaching.

It's interesting because in the past when you said 'outside x, y, and z' at QB, it was more that the league was filled with scrubs and there were three competent QBs.

Now we have a ton of competent, even elite QBs, and then three that are game-changing phenoms.

[RealSNR]

LMAO


I can point to a similar stretch of games for Ryan Tannehill.

“Alex Smith is an MVP candidate!” -2017 season

Watson had great stat streaks plenty of times under Bill O’Brien. It’s ridiculous to think Watson is thriving under the leadership of Romeo Crennel when before then Billy O was holding him back

[MahomesMagic]

Watson has really impressed me recently. I think he's taken a step against zone.

He still needs 3 vertical threats to maximize his game going into next year.

[Titty Meat]

Wrong.

[RunKC]

I can point to a similar stretch of games for Ryan Tannehill.

“Alex Smith is an MVP candidate!” -2017 season

Watson had great stat streaks plenty of times under Bill O’Brien. It’s ridiculous to think Watson is thriving under the leadership of Romeo Crennel when before then Billy O was holding him back

But Alex had Andy Reid, Tyreek and Kelce. Oh and Hunt too. Tannehill’s success is dependent on Henry. He uses play action and bootlegs just like Rat QB’s did in Denver.

Watson has no HC and the thing about him was that Hopkins was his safety net. Now that he’s gone the guy is having a career year.

He’ll never be Patrick Mahomes, but nobody is. Watson is a top 10 QB and honestly we’d be happy with him if we weren’t able to get Patrick.

[CasselGotPeedOn]

He's easily top 10

[ThaVirus]

He's currently the all-time passer rating leader with a minimum of 1500 attempts at 103.6, edging out Aaron Rodgers who's a top 103.1.

Mahomes is at 110 and needs 27 more attempts to qualify.

[Gary Cooper]

I would take him over any AFC QB besides Mahomes. My biggest concern would be health. He's had serious injuries before. If he's healthy and has a competent team around him, he's really good.

[Halfcan]

Watson throws four TD's against the sad-sack Lions- MVP!!!

[staylor26]

Yea Watson is definitely top 10.

[-King-]

Watson throws four TD's against the sad-sack Lions- MVP!!!

Literally no one has said he should be mvp.

[KChiefs1]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201127/bebad1e34d0ccf83534732465bcd2306.jpg

[Deberg_1990]

Houston’s problem is they beat the bad teams but can’t beat any good ones.

[DRM08]

He’s playing very well right now. I kinda think he was tanking on purpose to get rid of O’Brien.

[dlphg9]

But Alex had Andy Reid, Tyreek and Kelce. Oh and Hunt too. Tannehill’s success is dependent on Henry. He uses play action and bootlegs just like Rat QB’s did in Denver.

Watson has no HC and the thing about him was that Hopkins was his safety net. Now that he’s gone the guy is having a career year.

He’ll never be Patrick Mahomes, but nobody is. Watson is a top 10 QB and honestly we’d be happy with him if we weren’t able to get Patrick.

He's having a career year statistically while piling up garbage time stats. He's been trash in the 1st quarter and has allowed his team to fall behind.

Everyone's gonna start sucking his dick again because wow oh wow he has a high QB Rating and he's led them to 4 wins. 2 wins against the 1-9 Jags, 1 win vs the 4-7 Lions, 1 win against the 4-6 Pats. How outstanding of him that his only wins are against losing teams with a combined record of 10-31.

So he's cranking out wins vs trash teams and padding stats at the end of games where the TDs and YDs mean nothing. How very top 10ish of him.

[Bob Dole]

Literally no one has said he should be mvp.

I can’t remember who it was, but someone actually said that this morning.

[Bob Dole]

I can’t remember who it was, but someone actually said that this morning.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.battleredblog.com/platform/amp/real-actual-thought-provoking-houston-texans-analysis/2018/10/29/18026126/deshaun-watson-has-entered-the-nfl-mvp-race

[DanT]

When I've seen Watson play, which hasn't been that often and includes his relatively poor game against the Chiefs this year (QBR of 45.1), he looks like a good QB to me, a winner. Right now, he's ranked 9th in QBR (https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr). Of the 8 QBs ahead of him, he younger than 6 of them. Mahomes is 3 days younger and Josh Allen is 9 months younger than Watson. I think Watson is going to get even better than he already is, because experience really helps most talented young QBs get better and better.

You can see his 2020 splits here: https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3122840/deshaun-watson

[TEX]

When I've seen Watson play, which hasn't been that often and includes his relatively poor game against the Chiefs this year (QBR of 45.1), he looks like a good QB to me, a winner. Right now, he's ranked 9th in QBR (https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr). Of the 8 QBs ahead of him, he younger than 6 of them. Mahomes is 3 days younger and Josh Allen is 9 months younger than Watson. I think Watson is going to get even better than he already is, because experience really helps most talented young QBs get better and better.

You can see his 2020 splits here: ttps://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3122840/deshaun-watson

He's gonna get better also b/c BOB is finally out of his way. Ive seen most of his games - dude can play and he's a leader. Very coachable too. If KC would have drafted him, he'd be better than he is now. Cant understand how anyone could say that he's not a Top 10 QB. I think I've said that at least 10 times throughout this thread, so what's one more?...

[TEX]

He's having a career year statistically while piling up garbage time stats. He's been trash in the 1st quarter and has allowed his team to fall behind.

Everyone's gonna start sucking his dick again because wow oh wow he has a high QB Rating and he's led them to 4 wins. 2 wins against the 1-9 Jags, 1 win vs the 4-7 Lions, 1 win against the 4-6 Pats. How outstanding of him that his only wins are against losing teams with a combined record of 10-31.

So he's cranking out wins vs trash teams and padding stats at the end of games where the TDs and YDs mean nothing. How very top 10ish of him.

You're way off base here. He's not Drew Lock.... Watson has been playing very well at all junctures of games since BOB was fired. As far as doing it against bad teams, well he's on a bad team himself. Its pretty obvious you have a narrative and aren't seeing the full scope of how he is playing.

[CasselGotPeedOn]

It's crazy to think the AFC is gonna have Mahomes, Watson, Burrow, and Lawrence. Not to mention guys like Allen, Tua, and Herbert. Lotta Qb talent in the conference.

[RunKC]

He's having a career year statistically while piling up garbage time stats. He's been trash in the 1st quarter and has allowed his team to fall behind.

Everyone's gonna start sucking his dick again because wow oh wow he has a high QB Rating and he's led them to 4 wins. 2 wins against the 1-9 Jags, 1 win vs the 4-7 Lions, 1 win against the 4-6 Pats. How outstanding of him that his only wins are against losing teams with a combined record of 10-31.

So he's cranking out wins vs trash teams and padding stats at the end of games where the TDs and YDs mean nothing. How very top 10ish of him.

3.5 of Chris Jones 5.5 sacks this year were against teams with losing records. Guess he sucks too.

Maybe now you’ll see how stupid that logic is.

[ChiefsCountry]

Watson is better than what CP thinks he is and worst than what the national media thinks he is. I'm glad he isnt in the AFC West or on Baltimore. Raiders or Ravens would be legit good with Watson as their QB.

[MahomesMagic]

Watson is better than what CP thinks he is and worst than what the national media thinks he is. I'm glad he isnt in the AFC West or on Baltimore. Raiders or Ravens would be legit good with Watson as their QB.

Good post, probably true.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Watson is better than what CP thinks he is and worst than what the national media thinks he is. I'm glad he isnt in the AFC West or on Baltimore. Raiders or Ravens would be legit good with Watson as their QB.Mostly agree, although Carr is good as well. Loved how Watson played yesterday.

[htismaqe]

You know, looking through my list, I see a lot of age on there.

If I took out the older guys and went solely on youth, Watson is probably #2 on my list after Mahomes. Either him or Josh Allen. Maybe Kyler Murray.

With guys like Herbert and Burrow, they're TOO young and haven't really proven they can sustain in the NFL.

Everybody else that is really good has multiple years of experience, they aren't really "young" anymore, not even Wilson.

In fact, if I really look at it, the list is Mahomes, Watson, Murray, and Allen and that's kind of it.

So yeah, I may have to rethink my stance on Watson. I still don't know that he'll ever be an elite QB but I probably haven't given him a fair shake.

[-King-]

He's having a career year statistically while piling up garbage time stats. He's been trash in the 1st quarter and has allowed his team to fall behind.

Everyone's gonna start sucking his dick again because wow oh wow he has a high QB Rating and he's led them to 4 wins. 2 wins against the 1-9 Jags, 1 win vs the 4-7 Lions, 1 win against the 4-6 Pats. How outstanding of him that his only wins are against losing teams with a combined record of 10-31.

So he's cranking out wins vs trash teams and padding stats at the end of games where the TDs and YDs mean nothing. How very top 10ish of him.

You realize his record was 24-13 before this season right? And he still was putting up really good numbers. So no, I don't buy the "it's just garbage time stats" bullshit.

If BoB didn't completely ruin that team he'd still be putting up great numbers except they'd be winning too.

[TwistedChief]

The narrative that Watson is a guy who gets all his yards during garbage time is something conjured up by Chiefs fans after we first faced him in 2017. And at that point, it was fair.

It’s pretty clear since then he’s done a lot more than that though. And if he were our starter, I’d respect the hell out of his game.

[lcarus]

The narrative that Watson is a guy who gets all his yards during garbage time is something conjured up by Chiefs fans after we first faced him in 2017. And at that point, it was fair.

It’s pretty clear since then he’s done a lot more than that though. And if he were our starter, I’d respect the hell out of his game.

Yeah the guy is good. No doubt about it at this point. Let's face it. If he were KC's starting QB he'd be even better. Mahomes is a unicorn and nobody else is as good but Reid and this offense is miles ahead of the situation in Houston.

[bobhill]

Hes so good , The texans are releasing Kenny stills

[ChiefsCountry]

The narrative that Watson is a guy who gets all his yards during garbage time is something conjured up by Chiefs fans after we first faced him in 2017. And at that point, it was fair.

It’s pretty clear since then he’s done a lot more than that though. And if he were our starter, I’d respect the hell out of his game.

The best analogy would be like Bulls fans trashing Reggie Miller or Clyde Drexler back in the 90s. You would be very happy to have either one if you didn't have the GOAT on your team. That's essential Chiefs fans with Watson. He is better than any QB in Chiefs history expect Mahomes and Dawson. Montana is a toss up but he was done physically.

[Halfcan]

It is crazy how some Chiefs fans on this board obsess over Watson.

We have Mahomes!

[dlphg9]

It is crazy how some Chiefs fans on this board obsess over Watson.

We have Mahomes!

This board loves loser QBs that don't win big games.

[-King-]

This board loves loser QBs that don't win big games.

God forbid people on a football forum talk about other QBs in the league.

Btw, you made this thread LMAO.

[-King-]

The best analogy would be like Bulls fans trashing Reggie Miller or Clyde Drexler back in the 90s. You would be very happy to have either one if you didn't have the GOAT on your team. That's essential Chiefs fans with Watson. He is better than any QB in Chiefs history expect Mahomes and Dawson. Montana is a toss up but he was done physically.

For some reason people think it diminishes what Mahomes is to say another qb is really good/elite.

No, watson is a great qb. But Mahomes is on track to be the greatest qb ever. Both things can be true.

[htismaqe]

For some reason people think it diminishes what Mahomes is to say another qb is really good/elite.

No, watson is a great qb. But Mahomes is on track to be the greatest qb ever. Both things can be true.

In my case, that's absolutely untrue. I have a high standard for QB's, that is true. But I've always been this way. It has nothing to do with Mahomes.

[htismaqe]

The best analogy would be like Bulls fans trashing Reggie Miller or Clyde Drexler back in the 90s. You would be very happy to have either one if you didn't have the GOAT on your team. That's essential Chiefs fans with Watson. He is better than any QB in Chiefs history expect Mahomes and Dawson. Montana is a toss up but he was done physically.

No, JFC. That's the kind of hyperbole that starts these fights.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

No, JFC. That's the kind of hyperbole that starts these fights.

Well, to be honest, Watson wouldn't have much competition with the other Chiefs QBs from the past.

Green? I could see the argument go either way.
Livingston?
DeBerg?
Krieg?

Can't speak to Cotton Davidson, he was before my time.


But, compared to Cassel, Palko, Grbac, Gannon, Brokie, Thigpen, Bono, and a host of others that don't even register to me anymore? Yeah, I'd take Watson over all of them.

[RealSNR]

I'm not going to be gracious about Mahomes.

I'm going to be selfish.

We've got the biggest, most powerful dick cannon the league has ever seen, and I want it to be acknowledged from our opponents. On a weekly basis. They must pay mahomage to our QB or die. Well, I mean... they're going to die anyway. But they should be gracious about it. Just as it was expected that we as Chiefs fans were gracious about getting the chance to be torn to shreds by elite QBs. Like... "Here's Damon Huard. Now go play Peyton Manning. And you better fucking like it! Lose with a smile on your face or else we'll claim you're an unintelligent fanbase who doesn't know anything about football just because you lose games with game managers all the time!"

This is about payback.

So if nice guy Deshaun Watson and his neat little stats he's putting up under Romeo Crennel has to be shit on, then so be it. I'm not going to crown a guy's ass just to crown his ass.

And you better believe that until Trevor Lawrence actually brings it for real, I'm going to shit the fuck on him, too. Oh yes, bitches. It's happening. I am NOT giving that goldilocked fuckface douche any more credit than he deserves. And you know what? If he has initial struggles (or chronic struggles) I'm going to take delight in it. I'm going to point and laugh at him.

[RealSNR]

I'll say this much, though. I'd rather have Deshaun Watson than Lamar Jackson.

There. Watson gets that much from me. You're welcome, Deshaun.

[loochy]

I'm not going to be gracious about Mahomes.

I'm going to be selfish.

We've got the biggest, most powerful dick cannon the league has ever seen, and I want it to be acknowledged from our opponents. On a weekly basis. They must pay mahomage to our QB or die. Well, I mean... they're going to die anyway. But they should be gracious about it. Just as it was expected that we as Chiefs fans were gracious about getting the chance to be torn to shreds by elite QBs. Like... "Here's Damon Huard. Now go play Peyton Manning. And you better fucking like it! Lose with a smile on your face or else we'll claim you're an unintelligent fanbase who doesn't know anything about football just because you lose games with game managers all the time!"

This is about payback.

So if nice guy Deshaun Watson and his neat little stats he's putting up under Romeo Crennel has to be shit on, then so be it. I'm not going to crown a guy's ass just to crown his ass.

And you better believe that until Trevor Lawrence actually brings it for real, I'm going to shit the fuck on him, too. Oh yes, bitches. It's happening. I am NOT giving that goldilocked fuckface douche any more credit than he deserves. And you know what? If he has initial struggles (or chronic struggles) I'm going to take delight in it. I'm going to point and laugh at him.


This is an awesome post

[MahomesMagic]

I'm not going to be gracious about Mahomes.

I'm going to be selfish.

We've got the biggest, most powerful dick cannon the league has ever seen, and I want it to be acknowledged from our opponents. On a weekly basis. They must pay mahomage to our QB or die. Well, I mean... they're going to die anyway. But they should be gracious about it. Just as it was expected that we as Chiefs fans were gracious about getting the chance to be torn to shreds by elite QBs. Like... "Here's Damon Huard. Now go play Peyton Manning. And you better ****ing like it! Lose with a smile on your face or else we'll claim you're an unintelligent fanbase who doesn't know anything about football just because you lose games with game managers all the time!"

This is about payback.

So if nice guy Deshaun Watson and his neat little stats he's putting up under Romeo Crennel has to be shit on, then so be it. I'm not going to crown a guy's ass just to crown his ass.

And you better believe that until Trevor Lawrence actually brings it for real, I'm going to shit the **** on him, too. Oh yes, bitches. It's happening. I am NOT giving that goldilocked ****face douche any more credit than he deserves. And you know what? If he has initial struggles (or chronic struggles) I'm going to take delight in it. I'm going to point and laugh at him.

The Dinosaur scouts say Lawrence is the best QB prospect of the last decade. So I wholeheartedly agree here.

[RunKC]

Watson has now lost Hopkins, Stills and Fuller. He only has Coutee and Cooks left

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Texans?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Texans</a> star WR Will Fuller has been suspended six games for a PED violation. He explains below: <a href="https://t.co/C9ddGRDSZ1">pic.twitter.com/C9ddGRDSZ1</a></p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1333539197316173835?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Halfcan]

Fuller was juiced up- no wonder he was having a good year.

[WhiteWhale]

No, JFC. That's the kind of hyperbole that starts these fights.

So... who was better? Trent green or alex smith? Deberg? Kreig? Matt cassel? BillKenney?

It's not a high bar.

Come on. People around here just dont want to budge from their pre draft assertion that he was a noodle armed QB who wouldn't hack it as an NFL QB.

[htismaqe]

So... who was better? Trent green or alex smith? Deberg? Kreig? Matt cassel? BillKenney?

It's not a high bar.

Come on. People around here just dont want to budge from their pre draft assertion that he was a noodle armed QB who wouldn't hack it as an NFL QB.

Better than Watson?

Joe Montana for one.

I'd put Trent Green and Smith right there with him.

For me, it has nothing to do with Watson pre-draft. I didn't scout him because I was on hiatus from Chiefsplanet and football at the time.

I've seen enough of him over the last 3 years to know that at his best, he's a little more aggressive Alex Smith.

I'm sorry I won't slobber over the guy like some do but I'm not a Watson fan. Yeah, I probably was way too critical of him at times but some people want to act like he's a top 5 QB in the league and he's not.

[RealSNR]

Watson has now lost Hopkins, Stills and Fuller. He only has Coutee and Cooks left

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Texans?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Texans</a> star WR Will Fuller has been suspended six games for a PED violation. He explains below: <a href="https://t.co/C9ddGRDSZ1">pic.twitter.com/C9ddGRDSZ1</a></p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1333539197316173835?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He never had Fuller.

This little actually honest-to-goodness healthy stretch that Fuller was on was obviously fake. Without the PEDs he would have continued snapping in half like a goddamn twig, because that's all Fuller has ever done in his NFL career.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

Better than Watson?

Joe Montana for one.

I'd put Trent Green and Smith right there with him.

For me, it has nothing to do with Watson pre-draft. I didn't scout him because I was on hiatus from Chiefsplanet and football at the time.

I've seen enough of him over the last 3 years to know that at his best, he's a little more aggressive Alex Smith.

I'm sorry I won't slobber over the guy like some do but I'm not a Watson fan. Yeah, I probably was way too critical of him at times but some people want to act like he's a top 5 QB in the league and he's not.

I think there is some truth to this. I would say that Watson is better than Smith outside of structure, but generally speaking he is just that: a more aggressive version of Alex Smith. And I don't mean that as a knock on either player.

We watched project 11 Thanksgiving night (my mom hadn't watched it before) and if Alex had been given a chance and had competence around him, I think the perception of him would've been a lot different. Also, having arguably the best WR in the NFL definitely helped Watson his first season as he just chucked 50/50 after 50/50 ball to Hopkins.

[Deberg_1990]

and if Alex had been given a chance and had competence around him, I think the perception of him would've been a lot different .

Not sure what you mean by this? Alex has played on plenty of good teams between the Niners, chiefs and the football club. He’s been given plenty of chances.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

Not sure what you mean by this? Alex has played on plenty of good teams between the Niners, chiefs and the football club. He’s been given plenty of chances.

Never said he hadn't played on good teams. The 9ers were god awful his first 5 years in the league thanks to Mike Singletary being a shitty head coach. It's really not that hard to understand

[stevieray]

Not sure what you mean by this? Alex has played on plenty of good teams between the Niners, chiefs and the football club. He’s been given plenty of chances.

dude had like five different OCs to start his career.

[Deberg_1990]

Never said he hadn't played on good teams. The 9ers were god awful his first 5 years in the league thanks to Mike Singletary being a shitty head coach. It's really not that hard to understand

Oh you mean at the beginning of his career. Got it.

[Megatron96]

Better than Watson?

Joe Montana for one.

I'd put Trent Green and Smith right there with him.

For me, it has nothing to do with Watson pre-draft. I didn't scout him because I was on hiatus from Chiefsplanet and football at the time.

I've seen enough of him over the last 3 years to know that at his best, he's a little more aggressive Alex Smith.

I'm sorry I won't slobber over the guy like some do but I'm not a Watson fan. Yeah, I probably was way too critical of him at times but some people want to act like he's a top 5 QB in the league and he's not.

Not certain I'd put Green and Smith above Watson. Trent Green used to give me fits, almost as often as Smith did. At least with Watson you'd know that the guy has great escape-ability, and can make some amazing plays both with his feet and his arm. Trent and Smith were purely game-managers, not game-changers.

And comparing anyone to a GOAT isn't fair. Watson will never be Montana. But neither will anyone else, ever. The guy was a football unicorn, for pete's sake.

In my mind, the only Chiefs QB that is head-and-shoulders better than Watson is Mahomes. Okay, Dawson as well, but that's really it.

[Brody Wa]

I would take Steve Young over Watson.... and it wouldn’t be remotely close.

[ThaVirus]

Steve Young might make my top 5 all-time.

Watson might make my top 5 right now.

There's a huge difference between the two, in my opinion.

[MahomesMagic]

Fuller was juiced up- no wonder he was having a good year.

Yeah, he dropped 35 points on my fantasy team before getting busted for PEDS.

:eek:

[KChiefs1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I can make a case that Deshaun Watson might even be a little better than Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has the two runaway best weapons in football, Deshaun is doing it with mirrors and he can process it at the highest level. <a href="https://twitter.com/undisputed?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@undisputed</a>. 9:30 AM-Noon ET. FS1. <a href="https://t.co/H5qssYAmH2">https://t.co/H5qssYAmH2</a></p>&mdash; Skip Bayless (@RealSkipBayless) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1334905661776224256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Megatron96]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I can make a case that Deshaun Watson might even be a little better than Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has the two runaway best weapons in football, Deshaun is doing it with mirrors and he can process it at the highest level. <a href="https://twitter.com/undisputed?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@undisputed</a>. 9:30 AM-Noon ET. FS1. <a href="https://t.co/H5qssYAmH2">https://t.co/H5qssYAmH2</a></p>&mdash; Skip Bayless (@RealSkipBayless) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1334905661776224256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Bayless is becoming a caricature of himself with these constant 'comparisons' between whoever and Mahomes. He was on a couple days ago ranting about how Tom Brady (yet again) out-played Mahomes.

About the only thing I can respect about any of it, is that it takes a lot of effort and intelligence to find ways to twist the facts to arrive at some of his conclusions.

Other than that, it's all pretty stupid, on the level of Jeff-Fisher, Steelerdane, et al.

[KChiefs1]

Bayless is becoming a caricature of himself with these constant 'comparisons' between whoever and Mahomes. He was on a couple days ago ranting about how Tom Brady (yet again) out-played Mahomes.

About the only thing I can respect about any of it, is that it takes a lot of effort and intelligence to find ways to twist the facts to arrive at some of his conclusions.

Other than that, it's all pretty stupid, on the level of Jeff-Fisher, Steelerdane, et al.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson Tweets that Skip Bayless made up a conversation that Bayless said they had about the Herschel Walker trade. <a href="https://t.co/8GQ6SgaLCJ">https://t.co/8GQ6SgaLCJ</a></p>&mdash; Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1334899911880560644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Megatron96]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson Tweets that Skip Bayless made up a conversation that Bayless said they had about the Herschel Walker trade. <a href="https://t.co/8GQ6SgaLCJ">https://t.co/8GQ6SgaLCJ</a></p>&mdash; Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1334899911880560644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If true, that's a bombshell in the sports journalism world. 30 years ago that would get Bayless fired and blacklisted.

[ModSocks]

If true, that's a bombshell in the sports journalism world. 30 years ago that would get Bayless fired and blacklisted.

Today, no one cares. Accountability and credibility simply aren't virtues Americans care about anymore.

[Megatron96]

Today, no one cares. Accountability and credibility simply aren't virtues Americans care about anymore.

Sadly, I have to agree.

[KChiefs1]

If true, that's a bombshell in the sports journalism world. 30 years ago that would get Bayless fired and blacklisted.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Never said this! <a href="https://t.co/xlpNfs5RK8">https://t.co/xlpNfs5RK8</a></p>&mdash; Jimmy Johnson (@JimmyJohnson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimmyJohnson/status/1334832806959177728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/znje241njo8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RealSNR]

The Bayless making shit up thing is fucking funny.

On the "BUT T3H WEPUNZ!!!!" thing: Deshaun Watson had Deandre fucking Hopkins.

Fuck off with that "He had no help" bullshit

That's a fucking trash ass throwaway line to compare QBs.

Rodgers has help. He's got a running game and a top 5 WR. Probably top 3. Brady had help last year. He has help this year. Deshaun HAS help this year-- his surrounding team is not nearly as bad as other QBs have it. And he's always had help.

Get fucked

[htismaqe]

Don't look now but Deshaun Watson is top FIVE.

;)

[Megatron96]

Don't look now but Deshaun Watson is top FIVE.

;)

Not surprising. Watson is not a bad QB. And he has a gift for escaping the pocket. Add in the fact that HOU dealt away their best receiver for a washed up RB, don't have a pass rush, saddled with a bad secondary, and one of the worst RZ defenses in the league, and it was a given that he was going to be forced to throw a lot.

i am surprised that he leads the league in average yds/att. 8.8 vs. 8.3 for Mahomes. That probably won't last, though. Mahomes is on a tear.

[Halfcan]

If you guys Love Watson so much- why not join the Texans board and stop sucking him off on here?

[WhiteWhale]

Steve Young might make my top 5 all-time.

Watson might make my top 5 right now.

There's a huge difference between the two, in my opinion.

Steve young isnt in my top 15.

WAYYYYY too much talent to come away with only one championship. I dont just mean him. The whole team. Offense and defense.

[Danguardace]

Before Mahomes

Reid was a January choke artist

Hill was a Return Specialist

Kelce was fake Gronk

Chiefs didn't win a play-off game at home for a quarter centuary

[Red Dawg]

I don't like Watson. He doesn't do it for me. He may have his moments but I don't see elite in him and I don't see a guy that will win a bunch of playoff games.

[ThaVirus]

Steve young isnt in my top 15.

WAYYYYY too much talent to come away with only one championship. I dont just mean him. The whole team. Offense and defense.

It's difficult to gauge with so many variables, but I like Steve Young. Trying to think of 15 QBs I'd even consider putting ahead of him: P Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Favre, Rodgers, Warner, Marino. I suppose some other guys like Brees and Unitas. Idk.

Point is, Watson is closer to Tony Romo than any of those guys mentioned above, IMO.

[WhiteWhale]

It's difficult to gauge with so many variables, but I like Steve Young. Trying to think of 15 QBs I'd even consider putting ahead of him: P Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Favre, Rodgers, Warner, Marino. I suppose some other guys like Brees and Unitas. Idk.

Point is, Watson is closer to Tony Romo than any of those guys mentioned above, IMO.

Young aside, lot of folks here have a curious hate boner for watson.

It stems from people who insisted his arm was far too weak to ever succeed in the NFL. That narrative became a bit of a CP group think. Instead of just saying "I was wrong' it becomes a parade of excuses of why hes not as good as you think.

Hes a top 10 QB. It's silly to argue otherwise at this point. It's just doubling down on wrong.

Regardless, mahomes is top 1 of 1. Watson isnt a threat to his spot.

[Redbled]

CBS reported this morning that Watson went to ownership saying he’d be happy getting Bieniemy as his coach. If he and Dorsey do go there together we just discovered our main rivals for the next 15 years.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Apparently EB is a bad interview and has questions about somethings 20 years ago. He may need Dorsey as much as Dorsey needs him

[RealSNR]

Young aside, lot of folks here have a curious hate boner for watson.

It stems from people who insisted his arm was far too weak to ever succeed in the NFL. That narrative became a bit of a CP group think. Instead of just saying "I was wrong' it becomes a parade of excuses of why hes not as good as you think.

Hes a top 10 QB. It's silly to argue otherwise at this point. It's just doubling down on wrong.

Regardless, mahomes is top 1 of 1. Watson isnt a threat to his spot.

My hate boner for Watson stems from the "He just wins" treatment he got pre-draft. Yeah, I bitched on his arm, too, but I never said it wasn't good enough to play in the NFL. And before anybody brings up my comparison to Doug Flutie, was Doug Flutie not an NFL QB? Oh, he was? Cool.

If your argument for a college QB is "WINZ BIG GAMEZ!" then you deserve to draft a huge bust of a QB.

[RealSNR]

CBS reported this morning that Watson went to ownership saying he’d be happy getting Bieniemy as his coach. If he and Dorsey do go there together we just discovered our main rivals for the next 15 years.

More like the next 2-3 years.

Because that's how long Dorsey will last before he pisses off too many people within the organization and gets his ass fired.

[htismaqe]

CBS reported this morning that Watson went to ownership saying he’d be happy getting Bieniemy as his coach. If he and Dorsey do go there together we just discovered our main rivals for the next 15 years.

Jack.

Easterby.

Google him.

[WhiteWhale]

My hate boner for Watson stems from the "He just wins" treatment he got pre-draft. Yeah, I bitched on his arm, too, but I never said it wasn't good enough to play in the NFL. And before anybody brings up my comparison to Doug Flutie, was Doug Flutie not an NFL QB? Oh, he was? Cool.

If your argument for a college QB is "WINZ BIG GAMEZ!" then you deserve to draft a huge bust of a QB.

You used a lot of extra words that mean the same thing as "I was wrong by leaps and bounds"

I was wrong about watson too, but I'm not desperately clinging to the idea his success is an illusion. Turns out hes pretty good.

[RINGLEADER]

Jack.

Easterby.

Google him.

I’m sure Dorsey’s first move would be to fire him/send him back to being the team’s pastor.

[Deberg_1990]

another good game for him today in a loss. Still top 10!

[ThaVirus]

Young aside, lot of folks here have a curious hate boner for watson.

It stems from people who insisted his arm was far too weak to ever succeed in the NFL. That narrative became a bit of a CP group think. Instead of just saying "I was wrong' it becomes a parade of excuses of why hes not as good as you think.

Hes a top 10 QB. It's silly to argue otherwise at this point. It's just doubling down on wrong.

Regardless, mahomes is top 1 of 1. Watson isnt a threat to his spot.

Ah, OK, you're not talking about me then. I think Watson is really good and have said as much frequently.

I think a lot of it also has to do with Mahomes as well though. Posters here see Watson as a threat to Patty's dominance.

[Halfcan]

another good game for him today in a loss. Still top 10!

5 Sacks including one for a safety, and a lost fumble inside the red zone for another Loss.

Yep, great game.

Watson has already taken 33 sacks for the year.

[RealSNR]

You used a lot of extra words that mean the same thing as "I was wrong by leaps and bounds"

I was wrong about watson too, but I'm not desperately clinging to the idea his success is an illusion. Turns out hes pretty good.


Uhhh if you understand english and read what I said, you will see that your paraphrase of my post isn’t all that accurate.

Nice try, though

[RealSNR]

Ah, OK, you're not talking about me then. I think Watson is really good and have said as much frequently.

I think a lot of it also has to do with Mahomes as well though. Posters here see Watson as a threat to Patty's dominance.


You’re a buttfucking moron

[Lzen]

If true, that's a bombshell in the sports journalism world. 30 years ago that would get Bayless fired and blacklisted.

Damn it! Even with the thumbs separated, with my fat thumb I still accidentally hit thumbs down. 😞 Sry.

Let's hope this happens. Skip needs to go.

[ThaVirus]

You’re a buttfucking moron

It's not specifically his dominance, because their franchise is not ready to contend with us, but moreso his recognition. Lately it's shifted to Rodgers, Wilson, Lamar last year, etc but originally it was Watson people were comparing to Mahomes and lil chiefy didn't like that.

[Megatron96]

Damn it! Even with the thumbs separated, with my fat thumb I still accidentally hit thumbs down. 😞 Sry.

Let's hope this happens. Skip needs to go.

No worries. I don't even know what thumb's up or down does for me.

However,

I doubt anything happens to Bayless. In this new world, journalistic integrity is not a thing. They don't even give it mouth service anymore in the news media, so I don't see anyone doing much more than raise a bit of an eyebrow over a sports story.

[dlphg9]

Nope I definitely had no pre draft hate of Watson and would have been fine if we had drafted him. I don't pretend to be a college scout and very rarely have a negative opinion on a player coming out of college. I damn sure don't have a problem saying I'm wrong either and have admitted I was wrong on this site multiple times.

Watson just has never impressed me in the limited time I've watched him play. What I see is a guy that would throw far too many prayers and his demeanor last year after the Chiefs came back and destroyed his team was very eye opening. Instead of stopping the bleeding he curled up and cried, then he went to the bench to piss and moan.

This year he is one of the main reasons why that team is losing. Just a quick look of the drive summaries can show you a guy that isn't getting it done at the beginning of the game and then he is racking up yards and TDs when the game is completely out of reach. I don't even wanna hear about how his O line is bad and he isn't getting enough time. He's just not good in the pocket and is one of the main reasons for his high sack numbers.

[dlphg9]

No worries. I don't even know what thumb's up or down does for me.


You get enough thumbs up and Billay gives ya a hummer

You get too many thumbs downs and Billay gives ya a hummer

Take that as you will.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Let's go honey badger. Easy

Sent from my Galaxy S10

[htismaqe]

I’m sure Dorsey’s first move would be to fire him/send him back to being the team’s pastor.

He won’t have that power. Easterby reports directly to Cal McNair and will be involved in the GM hiring process.

[dlphg9]

He won’t have that power. Easterby reports directly to Cal McNair and will be involved in the GM hiring process.

Easterby is a prime example of how gold old boy the NFL is. That fucking dude literally lied his way to promotion after promotion and is now practically McNair's right hand man. Teams know he lied, but don't give a shit because he's been around so long.

[Megatron96]

You get enough thumbs up and Billay gives ya a hummer

You get too many thumbs downs and Billay gives ya a hummer

Take that as you will.

So, I need to stop getting either thumbs right now.

[dlphg9]

So, I need to stop getting either thumbs right now.

You're gonna be soooo sucked.

[htismaqe]

Easterby is a prime example of how gold old boy the NFL is. That fucking dude literally lied his way to promotion after promotion and is now practically McNair's right hand man. Teams know he lied, but don't give a shit because he's been around so long.

They don't give a shit because he has a golden tongue. The dude opens his mouth and and people believe it.

[WhiteWhale]

Uhhh if you understand english and read what I said, you will see that your paraphrase of my post isn’t all that accurate.

Nice try, though

I know.

Hes doug Flutie.

Probably should have polished his skills in Canada for 10 years

[KChiefs1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As of now, Mitch Trubisky has a higher win percentage than Deshaun Watson...<br><br>Trubisky: 27-20 (.574)<br>Watson: 28-22 (.560)</p>&mdash; John Kazar (@KazarNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/KazarNFL/status/1338501230688165888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Titty Meat]

Finished leading the league in passing yards, 33 tds 7 picks and completed 70% of his passes.

This every QB sucks but Mahomes is a bad look for this board. Some guys shit on Herbert others shit on Lawrence.

[Halfcan]

Finished leading the league in passing yards, 33 tds 7 picks and completed 70% of his passes.

This every QB sucks but Mahomes is a bad look for this board. Some guys shit on Herbert others shit on Lawrence.

Only because Mahomes didn't play today.

[staylor26]

CP definitely doesn’t give Watson the respect he deserves.

Which is weird, because we all know the difference in a guy like Mahomes getting drafted by the Chiefs and Andy Reid versus the situation that Watson had/has. Everybody on CP has known all along that BOB was trash, but they aren’t willing to give Watkins a pass for not winning yet? Now that the hype has died down from his rookie year, I think he’s become underrated, particularly on CP.

[Megatron96]

Finished leading the league in passing yards, 33 tds 7 picks and completed 70% of his passes.

This every QB sucks but Mahomes is a bad look for this board. Some guys shit on Herbert others shit on Lawrence.

Watson definitely proved he can play QB this season. They took away his best weapon, Fire his HC mid-season, and he just found ways to rack up a pretty impressive yardage total, a MVP-level completion%, a very respectable TD/INT ratio, and a very good QBR.

[tredadda]

CP definitely doesn’t give Watson the respect he deserves.

Which is weird, because we all know the difference in a guy like Mahomes getting drafted by the Chiefs and Andy Reid versus the situation that Watson had/has. Everybody on CP has known all along that BOB was trash, but they aren’t willing to give Watkins a pass for not winning yet? Now that the hype has died down from his rookie year, I think he’s become underrated. I’ll take him over Lamar.

I still think Watson would have dominated had KC drafted him. I don't believe he would have done as well as Mahomes has, however.

[Best22]

Finished leading the league in passing yards, 33 tds 7 picks and completed 70% of his passes.

This every QB sucks but Mahomes is a bad look for this board. Some guys shit on Herbert others shit on Lawrence.

I always laugh when people say Herbert sucks

Maybe he drops off next year but he’s shown nothing that would make me think he sucks.

[UChieffyBugger]

Finished leading the league in passing yards, 33 tds 7 picks and completed 70% of his passes.

This every QB sucks but Mahomes is a bad look for this board. Some guys shit on Herbert others shit on Lawrence.

All people have done as far as Lawrence is concerned is point out the facts. He's been bad in his last three big games despite having nfl talent all around him. If folks don't want push-back then don't hype the kid up beyond his true capabilities.

[RealSNR]

I know.

Hes doug Flutie.

Probably should have polished his skills in Canada for 10 years

That must also mean that he's a midget and plays for Buffalo and will eventually be a Tom Brady backup and... and....

Fucking stop it.

[srvy]

I always laugh when people say Herbert sucks

Maybe he drops off next year but he’s shown nothing that would make me think he sucks.

I don't get it either the kid looks like he has it to me and it's a bit scary. I really really think their head coach is fine and needs to be retained.;)

[dlphg9]

Bump a lump

[Eleazar]

The massages were the key to his powers

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Reminds me a little of when Vick went to jail. When they got back on the field it was never the same. I think it even applies to Mike Tyson.

[BWillie]

Still the best QB the Browns have had since vinny Testaverde. Its been that bad there

[jjchieffan]

I remember the 2017 draft when the Chiefs traded up to the 10th pick. I was upset at first. Mahomes was projected to be there when the Chiefs picked, so I thought for sure that they had traded up to draft Deshaun Watson. Of course that feeling quickly changed to jubilation when I found out that they picked Mahomes. I would have been okay with Watson at the time because he was highly rated and the Chiefs finally drafted a quarterback. But looking back now, it's clear that Watson would have been a huge mistake.

[RINGLEADER]

Reminds me a little of when Vick went to jail. When they got back on the field it was never the same. I think it even applies to Mike Tyson.

Vick was great his first year with Andy.