So what do we do with our starters next week?

[TLO]

Play them some? Not at all?

Discuss

[KC_Connection]

Rest the stars and stay healthy. Obviously Mahomes but I don't need to see Kelce and Hill limping around either. We also don't need to see another game like this one because that's what it would be.

[kstater]

I think you play them. At least a half or three quarters.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[frozenchief]

Play about 1 ½-2 quarters. Then rest.

[comochiefsfan]

Honestly, I don’t even care anymore.

If they think they need rest to get right, or if they think they need reps. Just do what has to be done.

Whatever fixes that shit show we saw today.

[RunKC]

Play the offense and get some momentum. At least one quarter.

Need to get the rythym back and 2 weeks off is too long.

[Molitoth]

I'd say do whatever the players want to do.

If players want to play, let them.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Watkins already hurt, had a scare with Kelce... but we also didn’t look great offensively.

It’s far from a lock that they’d look any better against the Chargers defense either based on recent history.

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Idk, do you worry about complacency going into the playoffs? Its not like we're on a hot streak like we were last year.

Seems dumb to be worried about our 14-1 being ready for the playoffs but there's some bad juju in the air.

[BigRedChief]

Play them some? Not at all?

DiscussWhy no poll?

[Skyy God]

Sit. Them.

[smithandrew051]

I don’t worry about Mahomes and crew coming out rusty. They can come back from any deficit if they do.

Just go to the playoffs as healthy as possible.

[Kman34]

Forfeit the game...

[KCUnited]

Single elimination games are about who's hot

Start anyone over x% healthy as determined by the staff

[dirk digler]

rest all the stars

[Molitoth]

I remember the years where the Colts would lock up the #1 seed and then sit and get rusty as hell, only to come out and lose.

I don't really want that to happen.

[Frazod]

REST THEM ALL.

Especially Fisher. He shouldn't even be allowed in the stadium.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Put entire team on COVID list and call it a week.

[TribalElder]

PLAY THEM

DONT WANT TO COME OUT FLAT LIKE BALTIMORE LAST YEAR AFTER RESTING FOR CONSECUTIVE WEEKS

[JakeF]

playing each week isn't working, sit them all.

Play backups all game long.

Anyone with an injury doesn't take a single snap.

[jjchieffan]

Play them all. They didn't earn time off with their uninspired play today.

[Megatron96]

Sit everyone. Kelce is definitely dinged. Don't want to see him take anymore punishment before the playoffs. Ditto Mahomes, Sammy, Hill, etc. Sit them all.

[JakeF]

PLAY THEM

DONT WANT TO COME OUT FLAT LIKE BALTIMORE LAST YEAR AFTER RESTING FOR CONSECUTIVE WEEKSHaven't we been flat for the last month?

Playing up or down to our opp talent level each week.

[comochiefsfan]

I will say, seeing what happened with Mahomes today made me change my perspective a little bit.

With how terrifying the Chargers front four is, I’d really like to avoid another game where Mahomes is getting drilled all game and mentally rattled more than he already has been.

He’s looked uncomfortable in the pocket recently and I just wonder if another bad game from a pass protection standpoint wouldn’t be a bit of a mental roadblock for him going into the postseason.

[Tribal Warfare]

Sit em

[Frazod]

I remember the years where the Colts would lock up the #1 seed and then sit and get rusty as hell, only to come out and lose.

I don't really want that to happen.

The good news is we're already rusty as hell.

[Graystoke]

Rest up the starters. I think we have players dinged up, maybe even Pat the way he played

[Direckshun]

QB: Henne
RB: Thompson
FB: Sherman

WR: Pringle, Robinson, Hardman
TE: Seals-Jones, Keizer

LT: Rankin
LG: Allegretti
C: Kilgore
RG: Wisniewski
RT: Rankin

DE: Ward
DT: Saunders
DT: Nnadi
DE: Danna

LB: Cobb, Harris

CB: Keyes, Baker
S: Watts, Thornhill

[Munson]

Do not rest them. Play them for the 1st quarter, and then put in the scrubs.

Everybody knows that if we come out flat to start the playoffs, we'll all be bitching about how rusty they are from sitting out week 17.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I will say, seeing what happened with Mahomes today made me change my perspective a little bit.

With how terrifying the Chargers front four is, I’d really like to avoid another game where Mahomes is getting drilled all game and mentally rattled more than he already has been.

He’s looked uncomfortable in the pocket recently and I just wonder if another bad game from a pass protection standpoint wouldn’t be a bit of a mental roadblock for him going into the postseason.

Could just be that they all need some physical and mental rest after several exhausting games.

They should sit.

[notorious]

Play the practice squad.

In no shape or form should the starters play.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Do not rest them. Play them for the 1st quarter, and then put in the scrubs.

Everybody knows that if we come out flat to start the playoffs, we'll all be bitching about how rusty they are from sitting out week 17.

And if you play them next week and have a major injury we’re REALLY gonna be bitching.

No thanks.

[KC Hawks]

Based on Reid's history, he's gonna sit the starters.

[Frazod]

QB: Henne
RB: Thompson
FB: Sherman

WR: Pringle, Robinson, Hardman
TE: Seals-Jones, Keizer

LT: Rankin
LG: Allegretti
C: Kilgore
RG: Wisniewski
RT: Rankin

DE: Ward
DT: Saunders
DT: Nnadi
DE: Danna

LB: Cobb, Harris

CB: Keyes, Baker
S: Watts, Thornhill

Afterward, we should all chip in for a nice floral arrangement at Henne's funeral.

[KC_Connection]

For those saying play them, did anybody actually watch today's game?

You have more of that to look forward if you do and potentially an injury. No thanks.

[penguinz]

They have the bye. If they are not injured then play them. Today should be proof the O needs more reps to get ‘right.’

[FloridaMan88]

Not risking an injury to Mahomes/other key starter in a meaningless game >>>>>>>>> Trying to get the ambiguous impact of playing the starters to get “back in sync”.

[Munson]

QB: Henne
RB: Thompson
FB: Sherman

WR: Pringle, Robinson, Hardman
TE: Seals-Jones, Keizer

LT: Rankin
LG: Allegretti
C: Kilgore
RG: Wisniewski
RT: Rankin

DE: Ward
DT: Saunders
DT: Nnadi
DE: Danna

LB: Cobb, Harris

CB: Keyes, Baker
S: Watts, Thornhill

Rankin playing LT and RT at the same time?

It's such a crazy idea that it just might work. LMAO

[smithandrew051]

QB: Henne
RB: Thompson
FB: Sherman

WR: Pringle, Robinson, Hardman
TE: Seals-Jones, Keizer

LT: Rankin
LG: Allegretti
C: Kilgore
RG: Wisniewski
RT: Rankin

DE: Ward
DT: Saunders
DT: Nnadi
DE: Danna

LB: Cobb, Harris

CB: Keyes, Baker
S: Watts, Thornhill

Tough assignment for Rankin. Not sure even Willie Road could do that.

[DRM08]

Bench them.

[Frazod]

They have the bye. If they are not injured then play them. Today should be proof the O needs more reps to get ‘right.’

The Oline starters getting their shit pushed in again won't do anybody any good. They need to rest and heal.

I wish we could just forfeit.

[Pitt Gorilla]

QB: Henne
RB: Thompson
FB: Sherman

WR: Pringle, Robinson, Hardman
TE: Seals-Jones, Keizer

LT: Rankin
LG: Allegretti
C: Kilgore
RG: Wisniewski
RT: Rankin

DE: Ward
DT: Saunders
DT: Nnadi
DE: Danna

LB: Cobb, Harris

CB: Keyes, Baker
S: Watts, Thornhill
I’d rest nnadi as well.

[Megatron96]

Tough assignment for Rankin. Not sure even Willie Road could do that.

:LOL:

He's a big boy, but probably not that big.

[FloridaMan88]

Wylie can play next week, that will be fine.

[MahomesMagic]

We're done. No point in playing anyone important.
.

[Bearcat]

Haven't we been flat for the last month?

Playing up or down to our opp talent level each week.

How is 'playing up to' and beating 3 playoff(ish) teams while scoring around 30 points/game against a few of so-called good/great defenses being flat?

Yeah, so they didn't give a shit about beating the Broncos or Falcons... oh noes.

[KCUnited]

Reiter can start in traffic

[tk13]

I think they should start but probably not play the whole game. At least get them some reps, even if it's a drive or two.

The way this team always starts slow, I think taking two full weeks off is a bad idea. Then we'll all be here in 3 weeks complaining that Reid took two weeks off when we don't score in the first quarter of the playoff game.

[Easy 6]

Win or lose, those guys always give us a bruising dogfight

I say why risk injuries in a meaningless game, lets get healthy as possible... combat the rust with intense, physical practices

[penguinz]

Is there a results matrix anywhere that shows records for first playoff game after two weeks off?

[rydogg58]

They have the bye. If they are not injured then play them. Today should be proof the O needs more reps to get ‘right.’

It's going to be week 16. It's not like they've played 3 preseason games and they need to develop some chemistry. Let the starters sit. After 15 games, this is who the team is and one more game isn't going to change shit.

[Red Dawg]

Rest them all.

[staylor26]

I think they should start but probably not play the whole game. At least get them some reps, even if it's a drive or two.

The way this team always starts slow, I think taking two full weeks off is a bad idea. Then we'll all be here in 3 weeks complaining that Reid took two weeks off when we don't score in the first quarter of the playoff game.

And if somebody gets a significant injury in that “drive or two” we’ll be bitching about that too.

[penguinz]

It's going to be week 16. It's not like they've played 3 preseason games and they need to develop some chemistry. Let the starters sit. After 15 games, this is who the team is and one more game isn't going to change shit.

They have the bye. Ask Baltimore how well it works out to sit in week 17 when you have locked up the bye week.

[FloridaMan88]

Is there a results matrix anywhere that shows records for first playoff game after two weeks off?

Yes, from 2018: https://nypost.com/2018/01/15/a-convincing-case-for-not-resting-starters-before-nfl-playoffs/

Link:

Going back to 2005, teams that have a first-round bye and choose to play it safe by benching starters in Week 17 have not fared well in their first playoff game.

As the criteria for this study, we needed to establish a line of demarcation between “full-go” and “no-go.” We considered as “no-go” teams that benched quarterbacks in Week 17, pulled them early before the outcome was determined or allowed their backup more pass attempts.

We found teams have gone “no-go” 20 times since 2005, and those teams went 8-12 in the divisional round.

A mark of 8-12 in the divisional playoffs might not represent the same thing as an 8-12 over the course of 20 regular-season games, but consider those teams that went 8-12 had a combined regular-season record in their respective years of 244-60 (.803). Or consider the teams that they faced had a combined mark of 191-112-1 (.629). That means, using a rough estimate, those bye-week teams should have been something closer to 11-9.

But wait, there’s more. Bye-week teams that did not rest QBs in Week 17 went 25-8 (.758) in the same span. Teams that sat players appeared in five Super Bowls, going 2-3 – the champions being the 2009 Saints and 2014 Patriots. Teams that did not mail it in went to 12 Super Bowls, going 4-8.

[-King-]

Play them for a quarter then take Hill, Kelce, and Mahomes out. Everybody else stays and plays.

Also if Clark is battling an injury, he can take the whole game off

[Pitt Gorilla]

They have the bye. Ask Baltimore how well it works out to sit in week 17 when you have locked up the bye week.

Wait, the Chiefs are the same as Baltimore?

[nychief]

Rest them all

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Didn't Belicheck work his players in practice during the bye week to get them ready for the playoffs? Why not do that rather than risk injury in a meaningless game?

[JakeF]

Rest them all
Absolutely.

Practice all week. Maybe even more of a full practice but sit all the starters during the game.

[srvy]

Play those that arent nursing injuries then pull early.

[treeguy27]

Start them for at least a quarter. They need the routine of preparing to play a game. All of the in week preparation, warm ups and game day hype. Hopefully they come out looking crisp and then sit their butts down.

[tk13]

And if somebody gets a significant injury in that “drive or two” we’ll be bitching about that too.

It seemed to work just fine for Belichick. There's really no right or wrong answer. You do have examples of teams like the Ravens last year actually taking off 2 weeks and coming out poorly. 2011 Packers come to mind as well.

Of course it's a risk, and if you asked me to guess Reid will rest everyone. But if he plays some guys I'm not going to freak out.

[UChieffyBugger]

There's a history of teams losing in the playoffs after resting during week 17 and the bye week. I'd play them for three quarters next week and call it a day. We all saw how rusty they were early in the Texans game last year...do we really want to take a risk?

[scho63]

Rest them......we've taken a physical beating the last 4-5 weeks.

[tk13]

Didn't Belicheck work his players in practice during the bye week to get them ready for the playoffs? Why not do that rather than risk injury in a meaningless game?

Belichick would play guys, at least for a bit. If I'm not mistaken Tom Brady played almost every one of their week 17 games his whole time in New England. They'd certainly pull him early in the game, but they'd let him go out there and get some reps like a preseason game.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

FUCK this bye week history stuff.

If you lose any of the star players on the team to injury, it isn’t going to matter.

[petegz28]

play them the 1st half unless they are dinged up

[alanm]

Start them for at least a quarter. They need the routine of preparing to play a game. All of the in week preparation, warm ups and game day hype. Hopefully they come out looking crisp and then sit their butts down.They haven't looked crisp since the Tampa game. Play a couple of series, go up 10 or 14, sit em.

[UChieffyBugger]

**** this bye week history stuff.

If you lose any of the star players on the team to injury, it isn’t going to matter.

You could lose a player in the first minute of a playoff game...that's football. The bottom line is rust is real and it's hurt teams in the past.

[alanm]

play them the 1st half unless they are dinged upThat's probably what's going to happen.

[Bearcat]

Yes, from 2018: https://nypost.com/2018/01/15/a-convincing-case-for-not-resting-starters-before-nfl-playoffs/

Link:

Yeah, everything I read says there's no benefit and it could hurt... that's one article I read, and when I read "rough estimate of 11-9" versus 8-12, I think.... meh? That 11-9 guess could easily be 10-10 or 9-11 or even 8-12 with such a sample size.

I think someone would have to do some kind of insane deep dive into what each team did and injuries at the time, did they end up playing a 3 seed or 6 seed after resting or not resting, etc.

There are so many variables just to end up saying "our rough estimate is that it's kind of a toss up if you do, but it's kind of a toss up if you don't".

The 'fan narrative' in me prefers they play a half and prep all week for it, etc.... but, I think the reality is closer to being able to 'flip the switch' and get serious when the games matter, so at least rest anyone who's banged up, if not +Mahomes and others, too.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

You could lose a player in the first minute of a playoff game...that's football. The bottom line is rust is real and it's hurt teams in the past.

And they could come out and kick ass in the playoff game regardless of the rest.

People talk like the Chiefs just dominated last year out of the gate after playing the full week 17 game. We were down 0-24. Is it really going to be any worse than that?

[Easy 6]

Rest them......we've taken a physical beating the last 4-5 weeks.

FUCK this bye week history stuff.

If you lose any of the star players on the team to injury, it isn’t going to matter.

Yup, we've been absorbing everyones best haymaker all year long and it finally showed today... our boys need a BREAK

[jerryaldini]

Really glad they lost the Raider game. Otherwise have to defend that record next week and through the playoff. Definitely sit the stars.

[BWillie]

How is this even a question.

We were completely retarded today for rolling out Hill who has a strained hammy. If he reinjures that he may be out or never the same for the rest of the season.

Then Kelce got really hobbled and we let him go back in.

Looks like we may have lost Watkins and Reiter for a while.

[Frazod]

Rest them......we've taken a physical beating the last 4-5 weeks.

Also a psychological beating, at least when it comes to the Oline and Pat. The line's been abysmal. I know they're banged up, but everybody is banged up this time of year. I really think it's in their heads now. There is no other explanation for how teams that get crushed by other contenders take us down to the wire week after week after week. Every defensive front we play is feasting on these clowns, whether they're worth a crap or not. Three and four man fronts are getting consistent effective pressure. If we didn't have a generational talent at QB I doubt if we'd be at .500 right now.

But as we all saw today it's clearly in Pat's head now, too. He seems to be not only physically hurting, but also expecting to have to scramble or get hit on pretty much every passing play, for good reason. It has clearly affected his game. He's rushing throws and pressing. I'm sure the Oline guys feel like shit because they see obviously see how their shit play is affecting him. It's a vicious circle.

These guys all need a long fucking break. They need to get their bodies and their brains right.

[UChieffyBugger]

And they could come out and kick ass in the playoff game regardless of the rest.

People talk like the Chiefs just dominated last year out of the gate after playing the full week 17 game. We were down 0-24. Is it really going to be any worse than that?

Yes it could get worse...we could actually LOSE the game this time. The Ravens last year, Packers in 2011 and Denver in 98 all rested in week 17 and got dumped out in their first playoff game. Why risk it? Play the starters for a half or three quarters and then at least the possibilty of rust won't be hanging over the team's head as we enter the playoffs. If we don't play week 17 the question will be there..it's just that simple.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Yes it could get worse...we could actually LOSE the game this time. The Ravens last year, Packers in 2011 and Denver in 98 all rested in week 17 and got dumped out in their first playoff game. Why risk it? Play the starters for a half or three quarters and then at least the possibilty of rust won't be hanging over the team's head as we enter the playoffs. If we don't play week 17 the question will be there..it's just that simple.

Sure the question will be there either way. They had a bye last year and came out flat. It could be attributed to bye week rust.

So what’s the difference?

I’m not rolling the dice just so the offense can maybe go out and score a single touchdown against the damn Chargers. They’re the 14-1 defending champs, they don’t need any confidence. They need rest.

[Bearcat]

Yes it could get worse...we could actually LOSE the game this time. The Ravens last year, Packers in 2011 and Denver in 98 all rested in week 17 and got dumped out in their first playoff game. Why risk it? Play the starters for a half or three quarters and then at least the possibilty of rust won't be hanging over the team's head as we enter the playoffs. If we don't play week 17 the question will be there..it's just that simple.

ROFLLMAO


(also pretty sure the Broncos won the SB in '98, so you might be thinking of another ~20 year old example ROFL)

[mnchiefsguy]

Tell the players they are playing. Have a full week of good practice and then sit them at the last minute...might be the best of both worlds.

My gut says play them the first half, but I also would not mind seeing Kelce sit--he was a little gimpy at the end.

Whatever Andy and the coaches decide. It is out of our control and I believe this team will be focused in the playoffs.

[Megatron96]

Yes it could get worse...we could actually LOSE the game this time. The Ravens last year, Packers in 2011 and Denver in 98 all rested in week 17 and got dumped out in their first playoff game. Why risk it? Play the starters for a half or three quarters and then at least the possibilty of rust won't be hanging over the team's head as we enter the playoffs. If we don't play week 17 the question will be there..it's just that simple.

Are you seriously comparing BAL to the Chiefs?ROFL

The fact is that next week's game is utterly and completely meaningless. Meanwhile we have several key starters dinged up from this game today. it makes no sense to play Kelce, Watkins, Mahomes, Bell and company next week in a game that means absolutely nothing. Put them on ice next week, and let them come out in the playoffs fresh(er).

And any team can lose at any time. That's a dumb argument. But it vastly increases the chances of losing if we lose the likes of Mahomes/Kelce/Jones/etc. in a game we don't even need.

[T-post Tom]

Rest, heal, repeat.. This team seems like one of the least likely teams to get rusty after a few weeks off. This team knows how to win.

[UChieffyBugger]

ROFLLMAO


(also pretty sure the Broncos won the SB in '98, so you might be thinking of another ~20 year old example ROFL)

Shannon Sharpe always mentions losing to the Jags after resting in week 17...it was around that period and i can't be bothered to google it :D

[comochiefsfan]

Also a psychological beating, at least when it comes to the Oline and Pat. The line's been abysmal. I know they're banged up, but everybody is banged up this time of year. I really think it's in their heads now. There is no other explanation for how teams that get crushed by other contenders take us down to the wire week after week after week. Every defensive front we play is feasting on these clowns, whether they're worth a crap or not. Three and four man fronts are getting consistent effective pressure. If we didn't have a generational talent at QB I doubt if we'd be at .500 right now.

But as we all saw today it's clearly in Pat's head now, too. He seems to be not only physically hurting, but also expecting to have to scramble or get hit on pretty much every passing play, for good reason. It has clearly affected his game. He's rushing throws and pressing. I'm sure the Oline guys feel like shit because they see obviously see how their shit play is affecting him. It's a vicious circle.

These guys all need a long ****ing break. They need to get their bodies and their brains right.Pat’s lack of faith in his line is more concerning to me than anything. I saw him do things today because of that line I’ve never seen him do before. I think he might need to sit just to prevent the trust issues from getting any worse.

Ingram and Bosa will absolutely tee off on him next week if he plays.

[UChieffyBugger]

Are you seriously comparing BAL to the Chiefs?ROFL

The fact is that next week's game is utterly and completely meaningless. Meanwhile we have several key starters dinged up from this game today. it makes no sense to play Kelce, Watkins, Mahomes, Bell and company next week in a game that means absolutely nothing. Put them on ice next week, and let them come out in the playoffs fresh(er).

And any team can lose at any time. That's a dumb argument. But it vastly increases the chances of losing if we lose the likes of Mahomes/Kelce/Jones/etc. in a game we don't even need.

Dumb argument? Er THERE IS FACTS behind teams losing after resting in week 17 you clown...that's why people are having this debate in the first place. Go read a damn nfl history book before you talk about "dumb" smh.

[Megatron96]

Dumb argument? Er THERE IS FACTS behind teams losing after resting in week 17 you clown...that's why people are having this debate in the first place. Go read a damn nfl history book before you talk about "dumb" smh.

ROFL

So, every time a team decides to rest week 17 they lose? Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying that KC is really the same team as BAL? Both?

GTFOH you DONKEY. You haven't had a correct prediction since I've been on this forum.

[Frazod]

Pat’s lack of faith in his line is more concerning to me than anything. I saw him do things today because of that line I’ve never seen him do before. I think he might need to sit just to prevent the trust issues from getting any worse.

Ingram and Bosa will absolutely tee off on him next week if he plays.

Yeah, I'd like to see Pat waiving down at Bosa from the owners booth while he's eating nachos with Priest Holmes. :D

[UChieffyBugger]

ROFL

So, every time a team decides to rest week 17 they lose? Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying that KC is really the same team as BAL? Both?

GTFOH you DONKEY. You haven't had a correct prediction since I've been on this forum.

Are you really that stupid? BAL, PACKERS WITH RODGERS, DENVER WITH ELWAY ETC all failed after being 14-2 or 15-1 and resting week 17...it doesn't matter what team it is. And what "predictions" have I made dummy? Please give me a laugh!!! :D

[HonestChieffan]

Based on Reid's history, he's gonna sit the starters.

Im betting on whatever Andy says.....some need rest to get right, some subs need game time....we wont have the same starters in a Superbowl we had week one so we need to have whomever we need to win a superbowl.

Patrick is looking a little jumpy after the NO game and the beating he took...we need an O line he can trust

[Megatron96]

Are you really that stupid? BAL, PACKERS WITH RODGERS, DENVER WITH ELWAY ETC all failed after being 14-2 or 15-1 and resting week 17...it doesn't matter what team it is. And what "predictions" have I made dummy? Please give me a laugh!!! :D

:LOL:

Why on Earth should I bother going back and looking up your nearly endless multitude of bad takes? Look them up for yourself, donkey. Sheesh, stupid and lazy, smh.

[UChieffyBugger]

:LOL:

Why on Earth should I bother going back and looking up your nearly endless multitude of bad takes? Look them up for yourself, donkey. Sheesh, stupid and lazy, smh.

Lol yep just like i thought...YOU'RE A LYING COWARD who can't back up your baseless claims...what a moron :D

[Gary Cooper]

If Mahomes sits, will Watkins be the emergency QB?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

I hate sitting starters but you have to in this situation. Anyone who favors not sitting them would be crucifying Andy if a key player got injured.

They should experiment with the O-line next week. Move some people around, see what works best.

[Megatron96]

Lol yep just like i thought...YOU'RE A LYING COWARD who can't back up your baseless claims...what a moron :D

:LOL:

Seriously???

Leonard Fournette
Clowney
Antonio Brown


And that's just three threads you started this year.:LOL:
NOT ONE OF THOSE GUYS HAS BEEN WORTH THE INK THEIR CONTRACTS WERE WRITTEN IN, YOU NEEDLESSLY CAPITALIZING SHIT-STAIN.


GTFOH, you cum-guzzling overly-dramatic jackass.