Chris Jones in 9 career playoff games: 0 sacks

[CasselGotPeedOn]

Only 4 Qb hits. He does have 9 passes defended which seems really high, so that's good. And yes, he did have a very important pass defended in last years SB, we might not have won the game without it. But at some point he needs to get his fair share of the blame for his inability to be effective as a pass rusher in the playoffs. Not to mention the dumbass personal foul penalties.

[loochy]

Can you count how many 15 yard penalties? I can think of at least 3.

[Deberg_1990]

How many QB pressures?

[CasselGotPeedOn]

How many QB pressures?

With 0 sacks and only 4 Qb hits, I would think it wouldn't be very many, but I could be wrong.

[Dartgod]

Can you count how many 15 yard penalties? I can think of at least 3.

I can think of at least one that was a fucking joke.

[staylor26]

The best thing we can do for Jones and Clark is add another edge rusher.

Our edge rushers as a group were bottom 3 in the league. It’s amazing that our defense was as good as it was.

They need to re-sign Taco and draft a pass rusher somewhere in the first 2 rounds.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

He’s imperfect but I have a hard time imagining us getting back to the SB next year without him. We just don’t have the solid pass rush depth beyond him to make a move yet such as trading him.

We need some pass rushing mercenaries who want a ring. Or maybe use 31 on a DE.

[Chiefspants]

Chris Jones had three critical batted balls in the Super Bowl and forced the first half INT. He was the a one man wrecking crew to the point SF fans called him the "monster in the middle" He had a good argument of being MVP in that game. He also singlehandedly stopped the Browns potential game-winning fourth quarter drive this year and forced one of Clark's sacks in the Bills game.

His impact has actually been more typical of a dominant DT than Jones' normal skill-set, but overall I have zero complaints with how he's been in the postseason.

[smithandrew051]

I posted something similar in another thread. Very surprised this hasn’t been thought of as more of an issue. Even Dee Ford has 2.5 sacks in fewer career postseason games.

I understand sacks aren’t everything, but Jones is now a highly compensated player. That paycheck limits our cap space, so he needs to be making game changing plays in the postseason.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Yeah I forgot Taco, I’d sign him.

[The Franchise]

Great. The stupid part of the offseason has started.

[staylor26]

He’s imperfect but I have a hard time imagining us getting back to the SB next year without him. We just don’t have the solid pass rush depth beyond him to make a move yet such as trading him.

We need some pass rushing mercenaries who want a ring. Or maybe use 31 on a DE.

I’ve said it many times, but I truly feel DE is as big of a need as OT, and I still do even after Sunday night.

We already have a great secondary. Gay should really upgrade our LB corps in year 2.

You add somebody like Jaelan Phillips and this defense will be top 5 in 2021.

[loochy]

I can think of at least one that was a fucking joke.


It was, and the rule is ridiculous, but it IS a well known rule...so don't do it. (We're talking the Brady helmet smack, right?)

[Chiefspants]

It was, and the rule is ridiculous, but it IS a well known rule...so don't do it. (We're talking the Brady helmet smack, right?)

He hit Brady on the shoulder pad.

[staylor26]

It was, and the rule is ridiculous, but it IS a well known rule...so don't do it. (We're talking the Brady helmet smack, right?)

Bullshit. He didn’t smack anything. He barely even grazed it.

[The Franchise]

Suh hit Mahomes in the helmet and it didn’t get flagged.

[Pants]

I posted something similar in another thread. Very surprised this hasn’t been thought of as more of an issue. Even Dee Ford has 2.5 sacks in fewer career postseason games.

I understand sacks aren’t everything, but Jones is now a highly compensated player. That paycheck limits our cap space, so he needs to be making game changing plays in the postseason.

Chris Jones is a DT and Dee Ford is an edge rusher. Not sure why even compare the sack numbers between the two.

Chris Jones commands double teams and still wreaks havoc on the opposing offenses. While sacks are nice, his impact is so far beyond that singular stats, it's not even worth mentioning.

[staylor26]

Suh hit Mahomes in the helmet and it didn’t get flagged.

Yup. That POS was trying to hurt Mahomes all night.

[Chief Roundup]

How many double and triple teams? Since there is no one else that is worth a shit on the DL.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Loud mouth likes to talk shit but can't back it up in playoffs apparently

[The Franchise]

You want to call out Jones for the penalties? Fine.

But his impact on the game is there....even if he doesn’t get sacks.

[smithandrew051]

Chris Jones is a DT and Dee Ford is an edge rusher. Not sure why even compare the sack numbers between the two.

Chris Jones commands double teams and still wreaks havoc on the opposing offenses. While sacks are nice, his impact is so far beyond that singular stats it's not even worth mentioning.

I understand all of that. I don’t think Jones is an issue necessarily, but more just pointing out that I’m surprised the pitchforks and torches haven’t come his way yet.

[In58men]

He just tweeted...”We will be back”

[PAChiefsGuy]

I understand all of that. I don’t think Jones is an issue necessarily, but more just pointing out that I’m surprised the pitchforks and torches haven’t come his way yet.

Problem w dlineman once they get paid their production tends to drop. Jones didn't do shit against Bucs except get penalties. Not a good sign.

He's good I'm just saying he needs to be better and I am sure he would say the same thing.

[The Franchise]

Loud mouth likes to talk shit but can't back it up in playoffs apparently

Problem w dlineman once they get paid their production tends to drop. Jones didn't do shit against Bucs except get penalties. Not a good sign.

He's good I'm just saying he needs to be better and I am sure he would say the same thing.

Make up your mind on how you feel about him.

[Dartgod]

It was, and the rule is ridiculous, but it IS a well known rule...so don't do it. (We're talking the Brady helmet smack, right?)

He hit Brady on the shoulder pad.

Bullshit. He didn’t smack anything. He barely even grazed it.

The 2018 AFCCG. He never even touched his helmet. Complete BS call.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Make up your mind on how you feel about him.

He's good just saying if you going to constantly talk shit to Brady maybe try getting some pressure once in a while.

Yes his position you can't judge it just w sacks but 0 in 9-games?

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

in fairness, he is being double teamed most every play and made Josh Allen crazy... We need another good edge rusher to take some of the scheme off of Jones...

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Super LV Highest-Graded Defensive Player: DI Chris Jones - 85.1<br><br>• 6th 85+ graded game of the season<br><br>• 83.8 Run Defense grade (Highest since 2019 Week 9)<br><br>📸: Kim Klement, USA Today<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/jpJIUY4IGS">pic.twitter.com/jpJIUY4IGS</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1358824137125466115?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ModSocks]

If you think Chris Jones is a problem then LMAO LMAO LMAO

[HC_Chief]

in fairness, he is being double teamed most every play and made Josh Allen crazy... We need another good edge rusher to take some of the scheme off of Jones...

Maybe put him on the edge and plug the middle with Nnadi & Pennell? At least rotate him inside & outside? The dude is a wrecking ball; OLs have to account for him on every down. His is the most disruptive D-lineman in the league not named Aaron Donald

[Cosmos]

More Unsportsmanlike Penalties than sacks....

Well, he call always fall back to his run-stopping prowess...right?

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Maybe put him on the edge and plug the middle with Nnadi & Pennell? At least rotate him inside & outside? The dude is a wrecking ball; OLs have to account for him on every down. His is the most disruptive D-lineman in the league not named Aaron Donald

If we don't get an edge starter, I'm in...

[FloridaMan88]

Chris Jones was dominant in the Chiefs Super Bowl win last year.

Even if that dominance cannot be quantified with sacks, there is no doubt the Chiefs don’t comeback to win without his presence.

[The Franchise]

Maybe put him on the edge and plug the middle with Nnadi & Pennell? At least rotate him inside & outside? The dude is a wrecking ball; OLs have to account for him on every down. His is the most disruptive D-lineman in the league not named Aaron Donald

This...I’m interested in.

Put Wharton at Jones DT spot and bring in Saunders for depth.

Jones - Nnadi - Wharton - Clark

[staylor26]

We can’t start this shit. Chris Jones is part of the solution for 2021 and beyond, not the problem.

We just need to protect our investment by adding an edge rusher. If you’re going to have all of that money tied to 2 guys on the DL, your DL needs to be dominant. It’s not, and that’s not really because of Jones and Clark. We had absolutely nothing outside of those 2 guys in terms of pass rush.

Draft a pass rusher early and you will get the most out of those guys.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I think Saunders would make a good LB

[ModSocks]

We can’t start this shit. Chris Jones is part of the solution for 2021 and beyond, not the problem.

We just need to protect our investment by adding an edge rusher. If you’re going to have all of that money tied to 2 guys on the DL, your DL needs to be dominant. It’s not, and that’s not really because of Jones and Clark. We had absolutely nothing outside of those 2 guys in terms of pass rush.

Draft a pass rusher early and you will get the most out of those guys.

Right.

Lets not go all fucking retarded because we lost the SB...a game the Chiefs limped into.

[staylor26]

Right.

Lets not go all fucking retarded because we lost the SB...a game the Chiefs limped into.

It’s what CP does.

They must attack somebody, and that somebody is usually a guy that got paid a lot of money or a high draft pick.

[Rain Man]

Chris Jones was dominant in the Chiefs Super Bowl win last year.

Even if that dominance cannot be quantified with sacks, there is no doubt the Chiefs don’t comeback to win without his presence.

Good point. The pass blocks were gold, pure gold.

And even if he got no sacks this year, he was incredibly disruptive. He was consistently killing the Buccaneers' cheap-shotting interior linemen.

[Gary Cooper]

We can’t start this shit. Chris Jones is part of the solution for 2021 and beyond, not the problem.

We just need to protect our investment by adding an edge rusher. If you’re going to have all of that money tied to 2 guys on the DL, your DL needs to be dominant. It’s not, and that’s not really because of Jones and Clark. We had absolutely nothing outside of those 2 guys in terms of pass rush.

Draft a pass rusher early and you will get the most out of those guys.

They tried recently. Kpassagnon and Speaks didn't pan out. When was the last time they drafted a good edge rusher? Tamba Hali?

You're not likely going to get a Nick Bosa outside the top 10. They're drafting late in the first round. Hard to find someone who can start and immediately be an impact player.

[staylor26]

They tried recently. Kpassagnon and Speaks didn't pan out. When was the last time they drafted a good edge rusher? Tamba Hali?

You're not likely going to get a Nick Bosa outside the top 10. They're drafting late in the first round. Hard to find someone who can start and immediately be an impact player.

Oh ok, so since Kpass and Speaks didn’t work out they should just stop trying?

:facepalm:

They literally just drafted one of the day 3 gems in Danna. He might not be a stud, but he’s a good rotational player at the very least and a great pick in the late rounds.

This edge class is deep. They can realistically get a pass rusher like Phillips or Oweh at 31, both of whom have the upside to be the best in this class.

You don’t have to have a top 10 pick to get a good edge rusher.

[HC_Chief]

tbh I would prefer we land a playmaker at LB. Jones is already a playmaker on our DL and we have three in the secondary: Mathieu, Dirty Dan, and Sneed.

Superior TEs feast on this defense, and RBs break through arm tackles at the LOS. We need someone at the next level to make big plays. Right now all we have are JAGs, which is fine if you mix in a playmaker.

[staylor26]

tbh I would prefer we land a playmaker at LB. Jones is already a playmaker on our DL and we have three in the secondary: Mathieu, Dirty Dan, and Sneed.

Superior TEs feast on this defense, and RBs break through arm tackles at the LOS. We need someone at the next level to make big plays. Right now all we have are JAGs, which is fine if you mix in a playmaker.

His name is Willie Gay.

[BossChief]

He hasn’t gotten as many sacks because he’s been playing responsible team defense and not just abandoning his gaps to make selfish plays that hang teammates out to dry.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Good lord. That's why you watch the play and not rely on "numbers". Yeah it is odd to be empty on sacks, but good lord he was a terror in last year's superbowl and made some big plays this postseason and last.

[ModSocks]

They tried recently. Kpassagnon and Speaks didn't pan out. When was the last time they drafted a good edge rusher? Tamba Hali?

You're not likely going to get a Nick Bosa outside the top 10. They're drafting late in the first round. Hard to find someone who can start and immediately be an impact player.

Well you're sure as fuck not going to find them by not trying. Don't give me that crap. Damn near every great player on this roster aside from Mahomes was a 2nd rounder or later....

We can find a Sneed in the 4th but im suppose to think they CAN'T find an edge in the bttm 1st? C'mon now.

[htismaqe]

tbh I would prefer we land a playmaker at LB. Jones is already a playmaker on our DL and we have three in the secondary: Mathieu, Dirty Dan, and Sneed.

Superior TEs feast on this defense, and RBs break through arm tackles at the LOS. We need someone at the next level to make big plays. Right now all we have are JAGs, which is fine if you mix in a playmaker.

Dude, how many times have you seen Kelce make a fool of even the best LB's?

Nobody can cover good TE's one on one, that's why they're good.

They just drafted Willie Gay. There's no reason to spend quality draft capital on a low value position.

[staylor26]

He hasn’t gotten as many sacks because he’s been playing responsible team defense and not just abandoning his gaps to make selfish plays that hang teammates out to dry.

And because there’s very little pass rush on the edges to force QB’s to step up into the pocket.

[htismaqe]

And because there’s very little pass rush on the edges to force QB’s to step up into the pocket.

Yep.

[htismaqe]

He's the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald.

Every other team in the league would kill to have Chris Jones and here we are...

:shake:

[ModSocks]

He's the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald.

Every other team in the league would kill to have Chris Jones and here we are...

:shake:

mmmhrrrmmmm

[HC_Chief]

His name is Willie Gay.

Hope is not a strategy. He took for freaking EVAR to crack the lineup, and showed a couple of flashes, but nothing consistent. To call him a playmaker now is severely premature.

I'm not saying we use our top draft pick on a LB. Nor should we sell out for a FA LB (if we had the cap space to begin with). Simply stating that LB is where we have a glaring weakness in this defense. We scheme to cover it up by running a base nickel. We have Sorenson playing a pseudolinebacker role. Sometimes Mathieu, but his primary role is rover. Dirty Dan is the closest we have to a playmaking LB right now. Maybe Gay will be the guy to actually BE a playmaking LB, but he's not yet proven that.

[HC_Chief]

Dude, how many times have you seen Kelce make a fool of even the best LB's?

Nobody can cover good TE's one on one, that's why they're good.

They just drafted Willie Gay. There's no reason to spend quality draft capital on a low value position.

We just watched Kelce vs a great LB. Kelce got his, because he is the best TE in the league, but he sure didn't make David, White, or Barrett look like fools.

Imagine having just one of those guys in our LB corps. With Jones up front and Mathieu & Sneed in the secondary. That's legit playmakers at all three levels.

[htismaqe]

Hope is not a strategy. He took for freaking EVAR to crack the lineup, and showed a couple of flashes, but nothing consistent. To call him a playmaker now is severely premature.

I'm not saying we use our top draft pick on a LB. Nor should we sell out for a FA LB (if we had the cap space to begin with). Simply stating that LB is where we have a glaring weakness in this defense. We scheme to cover it up by running a base nickel. We have Sorenson playing a pseudolinebacker role. Sometimes Mathieu, but his primary role is rover. Dirty Dan is the closest we have to a playmaking LB right now. Maybe Gay will be the guy to actually BE a playmaking LB, but he's not yet proven that.

They run a base nickel because it's effective and because that's what Spags thinks works in this day and age.

They're not scheming to cover up a weakness at LB at all.

They run a base nickel because they want to.

[htismaqe]

We just watched Kelce vs a great LB. Kelce got his, because he is the best TE in the league, but he sure didn't make David, White, or Barrett look like fools.

Imagine having just one of those guys in our LB corps. With Jones up front and Mathieu & Sneed in the secondary. That's legit playmakers at all three levels.

When your QB is running for his life on every play, that creates favorable situations in coverage. It's as simple as that.

LB's just aren't that important. Certainly not worth investing high draft picks on.

[staylor26]

Hope is not a strategy. He took for freaking EVAR to crack the lineup, and showed a couple of flashes, but nothing consistent. To call him a playmaker now is severely premature.

I'm not saying we use our top draft pick on a LB. Nor should we sell out for a FA LB (if we had the cap space to begin with). Simply stating that LB is where we have a glaring weakness in this defense. We scheme to cover it up by running a base nickel. We have Sorenson playing a pseudolinebacker role. Sometimes Mathieu, but his primary role is rover. Dirty Dan is the closest we have to a playmaking LB right now. Maybe Gay will be the guy to actually BE a playmaking LB, but he's not yet proven that.

If you’re drafting a guy or signing a bargain bin free agent, that’s not hope as well?

There’s more reason for optimism with Willie Gay than those 2 options. He’s the total package in terms of size and athleticism, and he flashed every time he saw the field. LB is a very difficult position to learn in this defense, and Gay was already a bit raw coming out. When you combine that with the weird offseason and no preseason, it’s not surprising that Gay was essentially a red shirt.

They are going to unleash him next year and he’ll take a huge step.

[Gary Cooper]

Well you're sure as **** not going to find them by not trying. Don't give me that crap. Damn near every great player on this roster aside from Mahomes was a 2nd rounder or later....

We can find a Sneed in the 4th but im suppose to think they CAN'T find an edge in the bttm 1st? C'mon now.

And where did I say they shouldn't try? Point is, they've tried and haven't evaluated well at that position. Not like they're not trying. They even paid a crap load of money to Frank Clark and gave up draft picks. They understand the importance of the position.

As for Mahomes, who you mentioned, remember they traded up for him. I don't know if they'll want to move up to get an edge rusher. Not the same thing unless it's almost a sure thing like Mahomes was with Veach.

[staylor26]

And where did I say they shouldn't try? Point is, they've tried and haven't evaluated well at that position. They moved up to get Mahomes. I don't know if they'll want to move up to get an edge rusher. Not the same thing unless it's almost a sure thing like Mahomes was with Veach.

They don’t have to fucking move up to get an edge rusher.

Jaelan Phillips, Jayson Oweh, Azeez Ojulari, and Joseph Ossai are all great prospects that could realistically be available at 31.

Then you have guys like Ronnie Perskins, Patrick Jones, Carlos Basham, Joe Tryon, and Quincy Roche on day 2.

This class is loaded at edge rusher. This idea that you can only find edge rushers in the top 10 is stupid.

[ModSocks]

And where did I say they shouldn't try? Point is, they've tried and haven't evaluated well at that position. Not like they're not trying. They even paid a crap load of money to Frank Clark and gave up draft picks. They understand the importance of the position.

.

Keep trying.

[tk13]

This is not quite criticizing Mahomes for not throwing a TD pass, but it's probably the next level down. Interior defensive line is so important. We just saw that with the Bucs and Vea. Teams would kill to have an interior presence like Jones who can rush the passer.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Aaron Donald is on his own planet.<br><br>Double team rate as a defensive tackle (x) by pass rush win rate as a defensive tackle (y), 2020 regular season. <br><br>(Y axis is overall PRWR, not just vs. double teams). <a href="https://t.co/N0d8FAmih2">pic.twitter.com/N0d8FAmih2</a></p>&mdash; Seth Walder (@SethWalder) <a href="https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1350481704193060871?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Bob Dole]

But teh sacks!

How I hate the off-season.

[HC_Chief]

They run a base nickel because it's effective and because that's what Spags thinks works in this day and age.

They're not scheming to cover up a weakness at LB at all.

They run a base nickel because they want to.

Spags is maximizing what he has. Our best personnel = nickel. We don't have the LBs to run a base 4-3. Hell, other than potentially Gay, we don't really have even a mediocre LB corps. Veach brought in a bunch of Dallas scrubs. He needs to address it. Hitchins & Wilson are meh at best. Niemann, O'Daniel, and Harris are JAGs at best. Gay is a maybe, but way too early to call

[Gary Cooper]

This is not quite criticizing Mahomes for not throwing a TD pass, but it's probably the next level down. Interior defensive line is so important. We just saw that with the Bucs and Vea. Teams would kill to have an interior presence like Jones who can rush the passer.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Aaron Donald is on his own planet.<br><br>Double team rate as a defensive tackle (x) by pass rush win rate as a defensive tackle (y), 2020 regular season. <br><br>(Y axis is overall PRWR, not just vs. double teams). <a href="https://t.co/N0d8FAmih2">pic.twitter.com/N0d8FAmih2</a></p>&mdash; Seth Walder (@SethWalder) <a href="https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1350481704193060871?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Do they have a graphic like that for offensive linemen?

I'm curious to see where Andrew Wylie stacks up.

[htismaqe]

Spags is maximizing what he has. Our best personnel = nickel. We don't have the LBs to run a base 4-3. Hell, other than potentially Gay, we don't really have even a mediocre LB corps. Veach brought in a bunch of Dallas scrubs. He needs to address it. Hitchins & Wilson are meh at best. Niemann, O'Daniel, and Harris are JAGs at best. Gay is a maybe, but way too early to call

You're seeing something that isn't there because you value LB way more than the modern NFL does.

It isn't 1995 anymore.

If Spags wanted to run a base 4-3, he would. Regardless of personnel.

Don't kid yourself into thinking he's running what he believes to be an inferior base defense because the LB's suck. It just isn't true.

[Gary Cooper]

They don’t have to ****ing move up to get an edge rusher.

Jaelan Phillips, Jayson Oweh, Azeez Ojulari, and Joseph Ossai are all great prospects that could realistically be available at 31.

Then you have guys like Ronnie Perskins, Patrick Jones, Carlos Basham, Joe Tryon, and Quincy Roche on day 2.

This class is loaded at edge rusher. This idea that you can only find edge rushers in the top 10 is stupid.

You're talking about finding impact players right away though. Try to win a SB again while the core is strong. One of these players would have to come in and immediately give us what Clark or Kpassagnon didn't all season. Yes, it's possible to find such a player late in the first round (or any round). But don't forget they need impact players at OL and WR also. They pretty much have to draft the best player available unless they trade up for someone they want. I'd prefer either OL or DE before WR, but we don't have much after Hill at WR.

It will be an interesting draft for sure as they have multiple needs.

[The Franchise]

They don’t have to fucking move up to get an edge rusher.

Jaelan Phillips, Jayson Oweh, Azeez Ojulari, and Joseph Ossai are all great prospects that could realistically be available at 31.

Then you have guys like Ronnie Perskins, Patrick Jones, Carlos Basham, Joe Tryon, and Quincy Roche on day 2.

This class is loaded at edge rusher. This idea that you can only find edge rushers in the top 10 is stupid.

Daelin Hayes in the 3rd-5th round.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

I don't think Chris Jones is a problem... not even close... might wanna start with those linebackers standing behind him

[ModSocks]

I don't think Chris Jones is a problem... not even close... might wanna start with those linebackers standing behind him

Meh. Wilson and Hitchens both had solid seasons. We need to find an edge rusher.

[HC_Chief]

You're seeing something that isn't there because you value LB way more than the modern NFL does.

It isn't 1995 anymore.

If Spags wanted to run a base 4-3, he would. Regardless of personnel.

Don't kid yourself into thinking he's running what he believes to be an inferior base defense because the LB's suck. It just isn't true.

Nickel isn't "inferior" unless you face a strong running game. Then it might be. I just look at it this way: the formula for beating KC is to get pressure with front four alone (much easier said than done), deep shell coverage, run the ball and eat up clock, use play-action off the run game, screens to counter aggressive blitzing, and hope a couple of things bounce your way (e.g. piss poor officiating). Now, that strategy has come close numerous times this season, and worked exactly twice: Oakland and TB.

Our DL does a good job of disrupting the LOS. We have a legit playmaker in Jones. Our secondary does a good job in coverage, and a great job of capitalizing on mistakes due to three playmakers. Our LBs, no. Too many arm tackles, too many whiffs, too many missed assignments, too many bad reads, too slow, bad angles. Get someone at the second level who can make plays, and this defense is stacked. Stuff the run, bring in nickel when teams are forced to play catchup.

Doesn't have to be our first pick in the draft. We just need to look for a playmaker at LB. Someone disruptive. They don't have to be the "best" LB in the league. Hell, would you rate Mathieu, Sorenson, or Sneed as best in the league at their position? No way, but they are playmakers. When opportunities arise, they step up and make big plays. Sometimes they whiff. Sometimes they take bad angles. And sometimes they turn a game around by making a huge play. We need that in our LB corps.

edit: or maybe we need new coaches for our LBs?

[RealSNR]

They tried recently. Kpassagnon and Speaks didn't pan out. When was the last time they drafted a good edge rusher? Tamba Hali?

You're not likely going to get a Nick Bosa outside the top 10. They're drafting late in the first round. Hard to find someone who can start and immediately be an impact player.


Get a real edge rusher. Not some Okafor guy. Don’t draft some loser like Speaks and say, “oh he’s great because he was always around the ball and you can move him inside on 3rd down...”

A real fucking edge rusher.

[Gary Cooper]

I don't think Chris Jones is a problem... not even close... might wanna start with those linebackers standing behind him

Yeah, on paper LB is their weakest defensive position. However, they did win a SB last year with a weak group at LB. And made another SB this year. The pass rush was great in the playoffs last year. It masked their weakness at LB.

Gay played well late in the year. Hitchens wasn't bad. That's about it, though. They should be able to sign some cheap free agents who can replace Niemann or Wilson. It's a position I wish they were better at, but their needs at other positions are just stronger now.

[BigBeauford]

Chris Jones was routinely double and triple teamed if you watched the actions in the trenches. Dumb thread.

[kcclone]

Veach and Reid have their work cut out. Gotta keep adding talent through the draft if you want to stay in contention.

[ChiTown]

Meh. Wilson and Hitchens both had solid seasons. We need to find an edge rusher.

This, and it's a pretty sizable need

[htismaqe]

LB just isn't that much of a weakness.

We have several upcoming FA's at DB, a massive contract in Clark that isn't returning on the investment, and literally need warm bodies opposite him.

I'm really not sure why everybody is so obsessed with LB's. They're not that valuable in this day and age.

[staylor26]

Daelin Hayes in the 3rd-5th round.

If we don’t get one in the first 2 rounds, I’m all for it.

[ThaVirus]

Linebacker definitely needs to be addressed if only for the fact that Neimann is playing far too many snaps

[HC_Chief]

LB just isn't that much of a weakness.

We have several upcoming FA's at DB, a massive contract in Clark that isn't returning on the investment, and literally need warm bodies opposite him.

I'm really not sure why everybody is so obsessed with LB's. They're not that valuable in this day and age.

Probably because we just watched our team get whipped by a team with three really good LBs. Those dudes swarmed and made plays. We also watched Niemann consistently suck ass all year...again. And he is our best coverage LB, if playing time and down & distance are any indication, i.e. he is the guy we bring in on "passing downs". Hitchens is supposed to be a run stuffer, but is a lower second to high third tier LB in this league at best, and wasn't particularly effective against the run (tends to flow to incorrect gaps and/or trail plays). Wilson appears to have physical talent at times, and absolutely nothing at other times. Gay made a couple of explosive straight-line plays; maybe he can be the playmaker, but jury is out due to lack of playing time. I mean, if Niemann, Wilson, and Hitchens, all three who range from mediocre to piss poor over the season were above him in the depth chart, that does not bode well for the dude's ability. It has to be mental, because he has shown physical explosiveness on a few plays.

It would be nice to be able to blitz a LB and have them actually consistently make plays. You can then run zone blitzes more effectively, and fake blitzes, dropping the LB to hot zones for INTs. Right now we have to do that with our DBs. It often works, but also leaves huge gaps when it doesn't...and we have seen many teams take advantage of that. It would also be nice to have someone that can actually cover a RB flare. FFS, we are awful at that.

We aren't going to fix the edge until Clark is gone. That won't happen until 2022. Quality edge rushers don't come cheap (see: Clark). We can get creative on the line, maybe rotate Jones outside on some plays, utilize our depth at DT, and get someone at the next level that can also make plays w/o vacating.

Or then again, maybe we just need better coaching in the LB corps?

[ChiefBlueCFC]

Meh. Wilson and Hitchens both had solid seasons. We need to find an edge rusher.

Edge is definitely huge... Tanoh really was disappointing this season. Thought he was gonna be a lot more productive.

[htismaqe]

Probably because we just watched our team get whipped by a team with three really good LBs. Those dudes swarmed and made plays. We also watched Niemann consistently suck ass all year...again. And he is our best coverage LB, if playing time and down & distance are any indication, i.e. he is the guy we bring in on "passing downs". Hitchens is supposed to be a run stuffer, but is a lower second to high third tier LB in this league at best, and wasn't particularly effective against the run (tends to flow to incorrect gaps and/or trail plays). Wilson appears to have physical talent at times, and absolutely nothing at other times. Gay made a couple of explosive straight-line plays; maybe he can be the playmaker, but jury is out due to lack of playing time. I mean, if Niemann, Wilson, and Hitchens, all three who range from mediocre to piss poor over the season were above him in the depth chart, that does not bode well for the dude's ability. It has to be mental, because he has shown physical explosiveness on a few plays.

It would be nice to be able to blitz a LB and have them actually consistently make plays. You can then run zone blitzes more effectively, and fake blitzes, dropping the LB to hot zones for INTs. Right now we have to do that with our DBs. It often works, but also leaves huge gaps when it doesn't...and we have seen many teams take advantage of that. It would also be nice to have someone that can actually cover a RB flare. FFS, we are awful at that.

We aren't going to fix the edge until Clark is gone. That won't happen until 2022. Quality edge rushers don't come cheap (see: Clark). We can get creative on the line, maybe rotate Jones outside on some plays, utilize our depth at DT, and get someone at the next level that can also make plays w/o vacating.

Or then again, maybe we just need better coaching in the LB corps?

The team that just "whipped us" plays a 3-4 and the two LB's that actually MADE the difference would be defensive ends in a 4-3.

The only reason White and David were such a factor was because Pat had to get rid of the ball in a panic on nearly every snap.

I'm not sure what more there is to say - you're overrating the LB position by quite a bit.

[htismaqe]

Linebacker definitely needs to be addressed if only for the fact that Neimann is playing far too many snaps

Gay will take those snaps. I'm guessing we could see a mid-round LB as well.

[JakeF]

improved linebacker play really helped Tampa Bay this year.

White and Barrett were both impact players for them. Our LB's just racked up tackles because of Defense stayed on the field so long.

Sacks, INT, FF, PD, TFL weren't part of LB's games.

Soft LB's and weak Dline play make it very difficult on Spags to call a decent Defense.

[staylor26]

Linebacker definitely needs to be addressed if only for the fact that Neimann is playing far too many snaps

It was addressed last year in terms of big investment.

Gay was basically a red shirt this year.

He’ll be ready to roll in 2021 next to Hitchens.

They’ll probably draft or sign another guy for base.

[KC_Connection]

Chris Jones basically won us a SB and is undeniably one of the best in the game at what he does. He's good in my books.

[JakeF]

Veach and Reid have their work cut out. Gotta keep adding talent through the draft if you want to stay in contention.
They should have done part of this work last offseason. If they had we probably win back-to-back Super Bowls.

[lcarus]

I said this in the other thread, but Jones gets double-teamed more than Asa Akira. The defense is ok. We just need another edge rusher.

[TEX]

I said this in the other thread, but Jones gets double-teamed more than Asa Akira. The defense is ok. We just need another edge rusher.

So much THIS.

[Valiant]

improved linebacker play really helped Tampa Bay this year.

White and Barrett were both impact players for them. Our LB's just racked up tackles because of Defense stayed on the field so long.

Sacks, INT, FF, PD, TFL weren't part of LB's games.

Soft LB's and weak Dline play make it very difficult on Spags to call a decent Defense.

Our broken and inept oline made them look more stellar than skill level.

Spags didn't adjust. He runs the same thing 97 percent of the time. Rush four straight or blitz straight. We do not stunt, we do not hide coverage. Our rush would get better with those adjustments.

Same thing with beinemy. He didn't adjust to our poor line play and their coverage. If my qb only has seconds and they are double and triple covering my best two threats past 10 yards. I call quick slants and death by a thousand cuts.

I don't keep calling deep or slow developing plays.

This team was ill prepared by the coaches again and this time the players talent didn't overcome.


Started with those fucking timeouts.

[htismaqe]

They should have done part of this work last offseason. If they had we probably win back-to-back Super Bowls.

Good fucking God you're a miserable fuck.

[htismaqe]

Our broken and inept oline made them look more stellar than skill level.

Spags didn't adjust. He runs the same thing 97 percent of the time. Rush four straight or blitz straight. We do not stunt, we do not hide coverage. Our rush would get better with those adjustments.

Same thing with beinemy. He didn't adjust to our poor line play and their coverage. If my qb only has seconds and they are double and triple covering my best two threats past 10 yards. I call quick slants and death by a thousand cuts.

I don't keep calling deep or slow developing plays.

This team was ill prepared by the coaches again and this time the players talent didn't overcome.


Started with those fucking timeouts.

Clark's sack in the 1st quarter came on a stunt. FWIW.

[staylor26]

Our broken and inept oline made them look more stellar than skill level.

Spags didn't adjust. He runs the same thing 97 percent of the time. Rush four straight or blitz straight. We do not stunt, we do not hide coverage. Our rush would get better with those adjustments.

Same thing with beinemy. He didn't adjust to our poor line play and their coverage. If my qb only has seconds and they are double and triple covering my best two threats past 10 yards. I call quick slants and death by a thousand cuts.

I don't keep calling deep or slow developing plays.

This team was ill prepared by the coaches again and this time the players talent didn't overcome.


Started with those fucking timeouts.

Spags didn’t adjust?

What is he supposed to do when his corners aren’t allowed to breathe on Tampa’s WR’s?

What is he supposed to do when the defense comes out and get 2 stops to start the game and the offense does virtually nothing with it?

What is he supposed to do when they get a goal line stand and the offense does nothing with it?

What is he supposed to do when his defense gets a turnover and it’s nullified by a phantom holding call?

What is he supposed to do when his defense holds Tampa to a FG and we get an offsides penalty that leads to a 1st down?

[Pants]

Spags didn’t adjust?

What is he supposed to do when his corners aren’t allowed to breathe on Tampa’s WR’s?

What is he supposed to do when the defense comes out and get 2 stops to start the game and the offense does virtually nothing with it?

What is he supposed to do when they get a goal line stand and the offense does nothing with it?

What is he supposed to do when his defense gets a turnover and it’s nullified by a phantom holding call?

What is he supposed to do when his defense holds Tampa to a FG and we get an offsides penalty that leads to a 1st down?

I feel like I am in a sea of dumbasses, man. How is this not fucking obvious? I can't believe you have to spell it out.

[Why Not?]

He's the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald.

Every other team in the league would kill to have Chris Jones and here we are...

:shake:

The same Aaron Donald that prior to running into the Seahawks melted butter O line in this year's playoffs only had .5 career post season sacks? He sucks also.

-Some of CP

[Rasputin]

Fuck the haters he helped us win a Super Bowl last year and helped get us there again this year.


Was the game disappointing absolutely but I still love what we have on defense and I love Chris Jones.


It's hard to defend 9 points from 3 field goals and expect to win with a one sided referee crew.

[Megatron96]

Our broken and inept oline made them look more stellar than skill level.

Spags didn't adjust. He runs the same thing 97 percent of the time. Rush four straight or blitz straight. We do not stunt, we do not hide coverage. Our rush would get better with those adjustments.

Same thing with beinemy. He didn't adjust to our poor line play and their coverage. If my qb only has seconds and they are double and triple covering my best two threats past 10 yards. I call quick slants and death by a thousand cuts.

I don't keep calling deep or slow developing plays.

This team was ill prepared by the coaches again and this time the players talent didn't overcome.


Started with those fucking timeouts.

You have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going to run your mouth with that level of incompetence, you really should just keep quiet.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Meh. Wilson and Hitchens both had solid seasons. We need to find an edge rusher.Our linebacking corp needs a complete revamp. Hitchens is slow and getting old. Wilson has a series or two here and there that make him look good, but he has had more series where he is just a complete non-factor, and Niemann is obviously just trash.

Willie Gay Jr could barely get on the field this year, but he possess the athleticism and speed we desperately need.

I think if you look at the defensive backfield, the linebackers, and the defensive line, it's clear that the linebackers is the position group that isn't on par with the other two.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[ChiefsFanatic]

If we don’t get one in the first 2 rounds, I’m all for it.I don't know exactly why Gay couldn't get more snaps this year (I mean, we can all guess) but hopefully Spags and the position coaches can coach him up next year, and he can become an every down LB.

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on why we never tried to use his speed on the edge more, especially situationally. I just always wondered why, with his speed, if he couldn't get regular defensive snaps, why didn't we at least try to take advantage of his speed off the edge more.

Is it just because he doesn't have the talent to be an edge rusher, even in spots, or something else? Or am I just crazy to think we should have found more ways to take advantage of his speed?

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[htismaqe]

Gay didn't get on the field because he was extremely raw. He didn't play a lot of football in college.

They didn't want to expose him to too much too fast and that's fine.

He'll be on the field more next year.

They'll be fine at LB even if they do nothing but I'm sure we'll see some movement in free agency. I wouldn't count on a LB in the draft given the needs and the depth at DE, OL, and WR.

[HC_Chief]

Gay didn't get on the field because he was extremely raw. He didn't play a lot of football in college.

They didn't want to expose him to too much too fast and that's fine.

He'll be on the field more next year.

They'll be fine at LB even if they do nothing but I'm sure we'll see some movement in free agency. I wouldn't count on a LB in the draft given the needs and the depth at DE, OL, and WR.

Considering how poor our LB corps has been, it sure would be nice to see a significant change. We know Britt is likely done. Perhaps we should replace Matt House as well? It's obvious we either have a serious personnel issue, meaning a bunch of guys who simply cannot execute, or we have a technique, i.e. coaching gap. Bottom line is our LB corps do not have playmakers. Our DL and secondary do.

[staylor26]

Considering how poor our LB corps has been, it sure would be nice to see a significant change. We know Britt is likely done. Perhaps we should replace Matt House as well? It's obvious we either have a serious personnel issue, meaning a bunch of guys who simply cannot execute, or we have a technique, i.e. coaching gap. Bottom line is our LB corps do not have playmakers. Our DL and secondary do.

Replace House? Fuck no.

We’ve had a personnel issue for years at LB, but Hitchens is coming off his best year as a Chief and Gay is going to be a starter in 2021.

There are much bigger concerns for 2021 than LB and LB coach.

[ModSocks]

Clark's sack in the 1st quarter came on a stunt. FWIW.

And they constantly disguise coverages. They're one of the top teams in the league in that regard.

[htismaqe]

Considering how poor our LB corps has been, it sure would be nice to see a significant change. We know Britt is likely done. Perhaps we should replace Matt House as well? It's obvious we either have a serious personnel issue, meaning a bunch of guys who simply cannot execute, or we have a technique, i.e. coaching gap. Bottom line is our LB corps do not have playmakers. Our DL and secondary do.

Or it could be that you way overvalue LB's. That's the most likely issue.

[HC_Chief]

Or it could be that you way overvalue LB's. That's the most likely issue.

Or you way undervalue them.

[TNTEICHER]

Playing next to Kpass has it draw backs. Put a good DE next to Jones and watch out.

[htismaqe]

Or you way undervalue them.

Looks like I value them about as much as the Chiefs do, which limits my disappointment greatly.

[HC_Chief]

Looks like I value them about as much as the Chiefs do, which limits my disappointment greatly.

haha, touché

[htismaqe]

haha, touchè

:D

It's all good man. There's a reason we're here and not sitting at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

[Pitt Gorilla]

You have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going to run your mouth with that level of incompetence, you really should just keep quiet.This. We stunt and hide coverage REALLY well.