LNBS: This draft can set us up for long term success

[BossChief]

We all know that the cap is going to explode and a lot of our star players contracts will during that time, as well. Including Mahomes. That’s why this draft is so incredibly important.

Here’s why.

If you’re drafting a guard, LB, Center, safety or other position that second contracts cost 10-15m per year, they need to play well right away to get a good ROI on the pick in relation to the cap.

If you draft a stud WR or an above average LT in the late first, that’s 20-30m per year in value for the pick, so a 1 year acclimation period isn’t as big of a deal. Especially on the first rounders you get 5 years of cost control of. Not having to fill high price tag offensive positions through free agency is HUGE.

That’s why this is a PERFECT draft for the Kansas City Chiefs.

We have pressing needs at the positions this draft offers talent at in both quality and quantity. There are high quality WRs and OTs deep into the middle and even later rounds of this draft. Brett Veach is about to completely offset the expensive years of Mahomes contract by drafting huge values that we have needs at. I could see him getting 2 good WRs, a starting DE and a solid LT in this draft. Eliminating the need to bolster those positions for a few years through big free agent contracts.

Just the thought of having both OTs, 3WRs, CEH and Kelce (even as he ages, we will be grooming his eventual replacement) together and at mostly dirt cheap cap numbers to surround with top level playmakers coming into his prime makes my dick hard.

If Veach identifies the right talents at our need spots, that opens up the WHOLE CAP going forward over the next few years to go after big time defenders in free agency because the big price tags on offense will be filled.

[ModSocks]

LNBS: This draft can set us up for long term success

You steal this headline from Teicher?

[RealSNR]

Still fucking pissed no shit ass derpy team with a head coach vacancy hired Bieniemy.

Let them all rot in hell.

[The Franchise]

LNBS: Football is played with a ball.

[BossChief]

You steal this headline from Teicher?

He had creative input.

[Chargem]

Isn't this true of any draft? If you can draft well at high cost positions, then you are more likely to win because of cost control.

The Superbowl win rate for teams that don't have a QB on a rookie contract suggest its really fucking hard to draft high paying skill positions players well enough to win a Superbowl while paying a QB what he is actually worth, I don't really see how this draft changes anything.

[MahomesMagic]

Veach not only drafts well but just gets great value in trades and the bottom of free agency.

Ward trade.
Osemele, Remmers type signings.

I really think Hollywood Brown would thrive in our offense and is a poor fit there. Would love to call them and see what they would take for him too.

[Direckshun]

Veach not only drafts well but just gets great value in trades and the bottom of free agency.

Ward trade.
Osemele, Remmers type signings.

I really think Hollywood Brown would thrive in our offense and is a poor fit there. Would love to call them and see what they would take for him too.

Veach drafts, at best, inconsistently.

He’s had as many stinkers as he’s had hits.

[KCUnited]

Chiefs look to add talent via the draft

[MahomesMagic]

Veach drafts, at best, inconsistently.

He’s had as many stinkers as he’s had hits.

His first was bad, but he had no 1st.

The main thing is he is getting good players. I would like him to hit a few more home runs but that's not as easy as it sounds.

[RunKC]

Veach drafts, at best, inconsistently.

He’s had as many stinkers as he’s had hits.

His first draft sucked but his second and third were just fine.

If people are complaining about a WR who averages 500 yards and 5 TD’s a year as the 3rd receiver then you know we’re doing fine

[Skyy God]

His first was bad, but he had no 1st.

The main thing is he is getting good players. I would like him to hit a few more home runs but that's not as easy as it sounds.

This.

Basically all of the 2019 picks outside of Saunders were hits.

2020 was a home run.

Burt’s drafts are clearly trending in the right direction.

[Chargem]

This.

Basically all of the 2019 picks outside of Saunders were hits.

2020 was a home run.

Burt’s drafts are clearly trending in the right direction.

Well, hopefully it is a trend that is heading in the right direction, but it could also just show that he is average and the ordering of good and bad is down to luck.

Interestingly, has there ever been a GM who was consistently drafted well above average for any sustained period?

[Chief Roundup]

Like it hasn't been this way for a decade. Might need to put the bottle down a little sooner.

[Skyy God]

Well, hopefully it is a trend that is heading in the right direction, but it could also just show that he is average and the ordering of good and bad is down to luck.

Interestingly, has there ever been a GM who was consistently drafted well above average for any sustained period?

Beach has generally hit on splash FAs, value signings, and trades.

If he’s merely average at drafting, he’s a top 2 GM.

And Reid tends to play vets over rookies, making Burt’s drafts seem less impactful.

[Hammock Parties]

I still think Saunders is a good player. We'll see if he can stay healthy and contribute, but the depth on the D-line may make him disappear.

I think he was drafted as a contingency if they were going to move on from Jones. He's not going to get that chance now.

Nnadi's contract is coming due and he may be too expensive to re-sign, so Saunders may slide in there in two years.

[tredadda]

This.

Basically all of the 2019 picks outside of Saunders were hits.

2020 was a home run.

Burt’s drafts are clearly trending in the right direction.


He's so doing this at the end of each round of the draft. It's much, much harder to nail the draft when you are not blessed with Top 10 picks.

[RealSNR]

This.

Basically all of the 2019 picks outside of Saunders were hits.

2020 was a home run.

Burt’s drafts are clearly trending in the right direction.

Exactly. When's the last time a Chiefs GM got that much quality production from his Day 3 selections in ANY draft, much less two years in a row?

No, Mike Danna probably isn't a starter. Is he still valuable to the team? Hell yes he is. And Veach has hit on so many of those kinds of players in the back ends. That's all you can really ask for out of those rounds, because you do need those kinds of rotational players on any team.

[BossChief]

Isn't this true of any draft? If you can draft well at high cost positions, then you are more likely to win because of cost control.

The Superbowl win rate for teams that don't have a QB on a rookie contract suggest its really fucking hard to draft high paying skill positions players well enough to win a Superbowl while paying a QB what he is actually worth, I don't really see how this draft changes anything.

Yes.

The point of the thread is that the most expensive positions are the positions this draft is historically deep at and that aligns with our needs perfectly.

I won’t be shocked if we draft a QB in this draft, either. Even backups get good $ and this is a super deep

[Chargem]

Beach has generally hit on splash FAs, value signings, and trades.

If he’s merely average at drafting, he’s a top 2 GM.

And Reid tends to play vets over rookies, making Burt’s drafts seem less impactful.

I always get accused of shitting on Veach but I think he's closer to average in all aspects of his job so far.

He's made some really good value signings but people also forget the busts like Orlando Scandrick, Xavier Williams, David Amerson. Okafor was also paid a surprising amount of money to be a JAG.

Splash FAs, am I forgetting someone:

Watkins (average to bad?)
Hitchens (bad)
Mathieu (good)

He has absolutely nailed some small trades like for Ward and Ogbah. The Alex Smith, Marcus Peters and Dee Ford trades were all good/fine but then I happen to think the Clark trade was a pretty bad trade. I'm probably forgetting some others because the transaction record is quite hard to search but trading he has done well at, with just the one blemish (although that being the largest trade).

I will give him a lot of credit for retaining our stars, the timely extensions of Kelce, Mahomes, Jones etc is all good business.

Typing all this out actually changes my mind slightly, I'd probably put him somewhere between above average and good, where as before I started typing this I would have said he was just "above average".


I still think Saunders is a good player. We'll see if he can stay healthy and contribute, but the depth on the D-line may make him disappear.

I think he was drafted as a contingency if they were going to move on from Jones. He's not going to get that chance now.

Nnadi's contract is coming due and he may be too expensive to re-sign, so Saunders may slide in there in two years.

I don't really buy the "good but we have too much depth" argument, the Chiefs sucked at getting pressure with just the front 4 last year and weren't great against the run again either, so its not like Saunders just got stuck behind all stars. If he can't beat out Pennel and Wharton then he's not good.

I also don't think he was drafted as a Jones replacement, he's not the same type of player.

I agree Nnadi may be too expensive to re-sign after this year, unless Reed takes up 60% of the snaps this year and that cuts into Nnadi's value. Its definitely going to be tough for Saunders to get snaps this year also because of the Reed signig, so barring injuries giving Saunders a lot of playing time it would be surprising seeing Saunders get handed the starting job in 2022 if he hasn't got any significant snaps for 2 years, although I guess anything could happen.

[RealSNR]

I always get accused of shitting on Veach but I think he's closer to average in all aspects of his job so far.

He's made some really good value signings but people also forget the busts like Orlando Scandrick, Xavier Williams, David Amerson. Okafor was also paid a surprising amount of money to be a JAG.

Splash FAs, am I forgetting someone:

Watkins (average to bad?)
Hitchens (bad)
Mathieu (good)

He has absolutely nailed some small trades like for Ward and Ogbah. The Alex Smith, Marcus Peters and Dee Ford trades were all good/fine but then I happen to think the Clark trade was a pretty bad trade. I'm probably forgetting some others because the transaction record is quite hard to search but trading he has done well at, with just the one blemish (although that being the largest trade).

I will give him a lot of credit for retaining our stars, the timely extensions of Kelce, Mahomes, Jones etc is all good business.

Typing all this out actually changes my mind slightly, I'd probably put him somewhere between above average and good, where as before I started typing this I would have said he was just "above average".




I don't really buy the "good but we have too much depth" argument, the Chiefs sucked at getting pressure with just the front 4 last year and weren't great against the run again either, so its not like Saunders just got stuck behind all stars. If he can't beat out Pennel and Wharton then he's not good.

I also don't think he was drafted as a Jones replacement, he's not the same type of player.

I agree Nnadi may be too expensive to re-sign after this year, unless Reed takes up 60% of the snaps this year and that cuts into Nnadi's value. Its definitely going to be tough for Saunders to get snaps this year also because of the Reed signig, so barring injuries giving Saunders a lot of playing time it would be surprising seeing Saunders get handed the starting job in 2022 if he hasn't got any significant snaps for 2 years, although I guess anything could happen.

I have some quibbles with a few of the players you labeled as bad/good free agents, but that's not really the important part.

Just about all of the bad ones were acquired during his first FULL year as Chiefs GM. Yes, I'm counting the 2018 free agency period prior to the 2018 draft, because that was the first time Veach was truly able to develop and carry out his own offseason plan from the beginning of a free agency period. The point is that Veach definitely had some fuck ups, and I was absolutely one of his critics during that year. Since then, his record has been stellar, and he's clearly learned from his mistakes.

Now he tends to trust his own draft board and will only trade up for players because he believes they're really good, not because he expects the talent pool at a position will dry up later down the line. He hasn't lost his aggressive free agency strategy, but now he exercises patience, and when he goes after and spends big on players, he does it because he believes them to be known quantities. He learned his lesson from Hitchens and Watkins, and when he wants to REALLY spend, he goes after and pays established studs, not guys with potential to be studs.

First year? Yeah, he was rough. But with the way the Chiefs make moves with confidence these days, I don't think you can weight the first year all that heavily. He's put into place a plan that works, and it has a demonstrated record of success.

[RealSNR]

And, I mean... come on. I know the Patrick Mahomes extension wasn't 100% him, but Veach led the team that got that thing done. And that deal is fucking art, man. It's goddamn beautiful. It's not just another QB extension. It's layered and crafted and elegantly fulfills the needs of both player and team. It's flexible from year to year without being unstable. Hell, even brilliant armchair salary cap gurus don't quite understand all of it. It's a fucking masterpiece.

When it got signed, yeah, NFL news was dry, but holy hell the media was talking about that thing for a good two weeks. And it scared the bajeezus out of other teams. Other NFL GMs looked at that thing scratching their heads like a bunch of shit-chucking apes, and if they had young franchise QBs who were due extensions in the next couple of years, they pooed themselves because they were worried their QBs would demand similar deals when their teams' contract structures weren't necessarily set up for success in that way.

People admired it. They were pissed off by it. They were afraid of it. And they loved it. All simultaneously.

He ain't average in all aspects. At his worst, he's probably average in some aspects of his job that fans never see. He has some misses here and there. But it beats the shit out of having a steady eddy guy like Chris Ballard who won't ever dare to put your team over the top. Or a guy like Dorsey who for some reason makes all the right moves when the team is shit, but when they find success can't seem to lead a front office team or work with his owners/head coaches. Or just about half the GMs out there who clearly have no clue what they're doing.

Those guys are average. Veach is not. He's certainly a top 5 GM in the NFL, and I don't know how anybody could argue any other way.

[RealSNR]

Before all this shit went down in Houston (and before O'Brien drew all his REALLY negative criticism by trading Hopkins) people were wondering how Watson and Mahomes were going to let their contracts play out, whether one guy was going to wait for the other one to make the first move so they could come out on top or vice versa, etc. And Dak at the time was in that weird negotiation standoff with the Cowboys, and he probably wanted to get his deal done last to raise his own value (or at least raise the price of the 2nd tag he might receive the next year).

The Mahomes deal comes out, and I'll bet agents and the teams just said, "Uhh... fuck that. Thanks for nothing, Pat."

It's a unicorn contract for a unicorn QB. It's absolute perfection. And we're the only ones with that kind of deal in place. Maybe other teams and QBs will copycat us. More than likely, they'll probably just stick to the same ol' 4-5 year extension formula.

That gives us such a huge advantage.

[Bowser]

We've been to three AFC Championship games in a row and back to back Super Bowls. People saying Veach isn't doing his job are likely just miserable people looking to complain about something. Clearly we have forgotten everything about the tail end of Carl's time, Executive of the Decade's time, and John Dorsey who never quite understood the principles of the salary cap.

Veach is fucking killing it for us, even if all of his drafted players aren't all-pro's by their second season.

[dlphg9]

We've been to three AFC Championship games in a row and back to back Super Bowls. People saying Veach isn't doing his job are likely just miserable people looking to complain about something. Clearly we have forgotten everything about the tail end of Carl's time, Executive of the Decade's time, and John Dorsey who never quite understood the principles of the salary cap.

Veach is ****ing killing it for us, even if all of his drafted players aren't all-pro's by their second season.

This is the internet, man. The place to go and bitch about the things you can't bitch about in real life, because you don't want the people that know you personally to know you're a whiney little cunt. You're anonymous online, so you can be a little bitch without consequences.

Has anyone noticed that most of the bitchiest members are the most secretive and don't want any personal info on here, because if they were to be identified they'd be really embarrassed?

[RealSNR]

Also, remember Fat Scott's first year? I'll take the Chiefs 2018 draft over the 2009 draft ANY day of the week. Don't forget: his offseason plan was to treat year one as an "evaluation year." Those were his own words.

I know he had less to work with on the team than either Veach or Dorsey, but that's a bunch of bullshit.

Fitting that the motherfucker can't find another GM job and is stuck being a guest on sports shows along with his butt buddy Mangina.

Ex-Patriot leeches talking about the Patriot Way for life!

[MahomesMagic]

Keep in mind that the Patriots have been below average at drafting and put together the greatest NFL run of all time.

They had HOF coach, HOF QB and killed value Free Agency.

We have HOF coach, HOF QB, killing value Free Agency AND we are now drafting well. Just keep adding good players and we are going to win a lot more Super Bowls.

Maybe Thornhill and Snead are the home runs we have been looking for as well.

[kccrow]

We've been to three AFC Championship games in a row and back to back Super Bowls. People saying Veach isn't doing his job are likely just miserable people looking to complain about something. Clearly we have forgotten everything about the tail end of Carl's time, Executive of the Decade's time, and John Dorsey who never quite understood the principles of the salary cap.

Veach is fucking killing it for us, even if all of his drafted players aren't all-pro's by their second season.

This is exactly the opinion that gets spewed here as if it's justification for how good Veach does in the draft.

Direkshun is right and I brought it up weeks ago in one of the threads in the draft forum. Veach built his segment of the team with trades, free agents, and mid to late-round role player draft picks. Dorsey hit on all the major studs in the draft and is the architect of what this offense is now.

I like Veach, but he has yet to prove he is without fault. We have only seen modest returns to date on early draft capital. We'll see just how good 2020 was this year. None of his top 3 picks are exactly good or great players yet. Maybe they all will be, maybe none. If we look at the prior history, it's not as good as you'd hope for.

This is the year KC absolutely needs to nail the first 2 days of the draft with a couple of pillar positions. Veach has yet to draft those guys. Perhaps it all starts coming together better.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I think some of the Chiefs media heads have been way too tough on Veach’s recent drafts, personally.

If Thornhill doesn’t tear his ACL, he might have been a pro bowl quality player in 2020. I think that’s what he will become in 2021. The Hardman pick is what it is, they needed a speed replacement for Hill at the time. It turned out for the best even if the pick hasn’t been a homerun since we still have Tyreek.

This 2020 draft class looks really strong and if Gay and Niang become quality starters, that’s an ‘A’ draft class for me.

[kccrow]

I think some of the Chiefs media heads have been way too tough on Veach’s recent drafts, personally.

If Thornhill doesn’t tear his ACL, he might have been a pro bowl quality player in 2020. I think that’s what he will become in 2021. The Hardman pick is what it is, they needed a speed replacement for Hill at the time. It turned out for the best even if the pick hasn’t been a homerun since we still have Tyreek.

This 2020 draft class looks really strong and if Gay and Niang become quality starters, that’s an ‘A’ draft class for me.

Most people had Thornhill rated in the late 1st to very early 2nd. How he fell that late is still beyond me. When Veach traded up, I thought it was for him, not Hardman.

I agree, that pick is a good one. Willie Gay hasn't proved to be anything yet. Hardman is a solid slot receiver that Veach spent a mid-2nd round pick on. I'm not real keen on that. He spent a 1st on a RB. These are premium picks spent on players you routinely get in the 3rd and 4th round as value.

I give Veach a pass on OT. You don't expect two studs in this league to go down in the same year, with a year left on their contracts, and then find yourself looking to replace them. He was proactive at RT by getting a value in Niang we hope works and I think he'll be good there.

He had the ability to get some other guys though at more obvious spots to use premium picks like DE, CB, and WR. Good thing he hit on Sneed or things would be looking quite bad for the future at just about every important position on the team. Now, he can fill some of that with mid-level free agents and we'll come out winning but that's not the ideal sustainable philosophy as Pat gets more expensive.

[RunKC]

Dorsey’s “great drafting” wasn’t a product of only John Dorsey. It was a ****ing mega team that was as good as any team.

Andy, Dorsey, Ballard and Veach alone is a ****ing awesome team.

If you’re going to give Dorsey credit, give him fault too. Tanoh Kpassagnon, KeiVarae Russell , DJ White, Dadi Nicholas and Eric ****ing Murray were his last defensive picks and every single one of them were disasters.

Veach’s drafts have gotten a lot more traction from role players. Rashad Fenton, Michael Danna, Tershawn Wharton (undrafted). Those guys at least bring value.

And a lot of that is NOT only because of Veach. Spags and his staff have played a huge role in that.

You’re only as good as your team

[Chargem]

Dorsey’s “great drafting” wasn’t a product of only John Dorsey. It was a ****ing mega team that was as good as any team.

Andy, Dorsey, Ballard and Veach alone is a ****ing awesome team.

If you’re going to give Dorsey credit, give him fault too. Tanoh Kpassagnon, Russell , DJ White, Dadi Nicholas and Eric ****ing Murray were his last defensive picks and every single one of them were disasters.

Veach’s drafts have gotten a lot more traction from role players. Rashad Fenton, Michael Danna, Tershawn Wharton (undrafted). Those guys at least bring value.

And a lot of that is NOT because of Veach. Spags and his staff have played a huge role in that.

You’re only as good as your team

I mean, has any GM ever significantly crushed the draft? I would have thought being able to do that would create a dynasty, and I can't think of any.

[RealSNR]

This is exactly the opinion that gets spewed here as if it's justification for how good Veach does in the draft.

Direkshun is right and I brought it up weeks ago in one of the threads in the draft forum. Veach built his segment of the team with trades, free agents, and mid to late-round role player draft picks. Dorsey hit on all the major studs in the draft and is the architect of what this offense is now.

I like Veach, but he has yet to prove he is without fault. We have only seen modest returns to date on early draft capital. We'll see just how good 2020 was this year. None of his top 3 picks are exactly good or great players yet. Maybe they all will be, maybe none. If we look at the prior history, it's not as good as you'd hope for.

This is the year KC absolutely needs to nail the first 2 days of the draft with a couple of pillar positions. Veach has yet to draft those guys. Perhaps it all starts coming together better.
Are we counting dependable starters in the "good" category? Or maybe guys who start and play a lot and don't suck, but aren't elite? He's got a handful of those guys. What's the average for most GMs per draft in finding players like that? One? Two?

Veach chose to spend his top pick in 2019 on Frank Clark, so he's only ever had one 1st rounder to play with. Yeah, Kelce was a 3rd round pick and Hill was in the 5th round yadda yadda, but it also took a couple of years for even those guys to establish themselves as elite. And this is only going to be Veach's 4th draft, while acknowledging that his first one was a dud outside of Nnadi.

So in 3 years with only one first round pick (32 overall) and a team that was mostly already established at so many of its starting spots and a strategy to "run it back" with the same crew, Veach hasn't drafted anybody that has really popped?

I guess the expectations for calling a GM good at drafting are a little high. If he keeps churning out drafts like 2019 and 2020 we'll be pretty damn ok longterm.

[RealSNR]

I mean, has any GM ever significantly crushed the draft? I would have thought being able to do that would create a dynasty, and I can't think of any.Probably the 74 Steelers would be the closest thing with 4 HOFers. But if you're asking for just every pick being a pretty good player (at the minimum), I don't know. Somebody should look that up.

[MahomesMagic]

The Hardman pick will always sting a bit because Terry McLaurin was still on the board.

But I also wanted Amik and Veach's pick of Snead was way better.

[Rainbarrel]

We've been to three AFC Championship games in a row and back to back Super Bowls. People saying Veach isn't doing his job are likely just miserable people looking to complain about something. Clearly we have forgotten everything about the tail end of Carl's time, Executive of the Decade's time, and John Dorsey who never quite understood the principles of the salary cap.

Veach is ****ing killing it for us, even if all of his drafted players aren't all-pro's by their second season.

48-16 Pretty good fitting revolving jigsaw pieces into winning teams.

[HemiEd]

LNBS: Football is played with a ball.

A really odd shaped one at that.

[Rausch]

I'd prefer we trade down unless some talent falls 10 or 15 picks to us like a LT or CB.

Being patient and trading back can help you accumulate picks for years. Having multiple picks in the top 100 can absolutely build the foundation of your team...

[HemiEd]

I'd prefer we trade down unless some talent falls 10 or 15 picks to us like a LT or CB.

Being patient and trading back can help you accumulate picks for years. Having multiple picks in the top 100 can absolutely build the foundation of your team...

Junior Siavii says hello

[BossChief]

Junior Siavii says hello

So does Chris Jones.

[Bowser]

This is exactly the opinion that gets spewed here as if it's justification for how good Veach does in the draft.

Direkshun is right and I brought it up weeks ago in one of the threads in the draft forum. Veach built his segment of the team with trades, free agents, and mid to late-round role player draft picks. Dorsey hit on all the major studs in the draft and is the architect of what this offense is now.

I like Veach, but he has yet to prove he is without fault. We have only seen modest returns to date on early draft capital. We'll see just how good 2020 was this year. None of his top 3 picks are exactly good or great players yet. Maybe they all will be, maybe none. If we look at the prior history, it's not as good as you'd hope for.

This is the year KC absolutely needs to nail the first 2 days of the draft with a couple of pillar positions. Veach has yet to draft those guys. Perhaps it all starts coming together better.

Fair points.

I still feel like he's the best overall GM we've had in at least 25 years. His ability to juggle the salary cap to this point has been masterful, and he's hit more than he's missed. Agree 100% that the first few rounds this year are absolutely critical (Weird saying that coming off back to back SB's, but it's true).

[kccrow]

Are we counting dependable starters in the "good" category? Or maybe guys who start and play a lot and don't suck, but aren't elite? He's got a handful of those guys. What's the average for most GMs per draft in finding players like that? One? Two?

Veach chose to spend his top pick in 2019 on Frank Clark, so he's only ever had one 1st rounder to play with. Yeah, Kelce was a 3rd round pick and Hill was in the 5th round yadda yadda, but it also took a couple of years for even those guys to establish themselves as elite. And this is only going to be Veach's 4th draft, while acknowledging that his first one was a dud outside of Nnadi.

So in 3 years with only one first round pick (32 overall) and a team that was mostly already established at so many of its starting spots and a strategy to "run it back" with the same crew, Veach hasn't drafted anybody that has really popped?

I guess the expectations for calling a GM good at drafting are a little high. If he keeps churning out drafts like 2019 and 2020 we'll be pretty damn ok longterm.

He absolutely has a lot of contributors. He needs to hit on some pillars now and do so by getting some studs, although Sneed just may be one. We'll see. Thornhill is also a hell of a player if he gets back to 100% this year. Nnadi is definitely solid for his position. I want to see him hit on LT, DE, and CB in the next 2 drafts, at least. And get us some more Super Bowls.

[JakeF]

Can't any draft set a team up for long term success? :shrug:


Draft quality talent, one of the most important things for a team to do.

[htismaqe]

Dorsey’s “great drafting” wasn’t a product of only John Dorsey. It was a ****ing mega team that was as good as any team.

Andy, Dorsey, Ballard and Veach alone is a ****ing awesome team.

If you’re going to give Dorsey credit, give him fault too. Tanoh Kpassagnon, KeiVarae Russell , DJ White, Dadi Nicholas and Eric ****ing Murray were his last defensive picks and every single one of them were disasters.

Veach’s drafts have gotten a lot more traction from role players. Rashad Fenton, Michael Danna, Tershawn Wharton (undrafted). Those guys at least bring value.

And a lot of that is NOT only because of Veach. Spags and his staff have played a huge role in that.

You’re only as good as your team

Dorsey drafted Dee Ford and Marcus Peters too. For all of the talent, you don't get credit for drafting players that are broken, physically or mentally.

For all of the great work he did with the offense, Dorsey built a terrible defense, hamstrung by soft players and bad contracts.

[Molitoth]

EVERY GM in the league has busts.
A good GM will hit more than miss, and I think Veach has done that.

[kccrow]

Dorsey drafted Dee Ford and Marcus Peters too. For all of the talent, you don't get credit for drafting players that are broken, physically or mentally.

For all of the great work he did with the offense, Dorsey built a terrible defense, hamstrung by soft players and bad contracts.

To be fair, Dorsey didn't want to re-sign Berry which was one of the worst contracts and decisions by the Chiefs maybe ever.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Chiefs look to add talent via the draft

:LOL:

Chiefs look to keep winning games, return to Championship Game

[htismaqe]

To be fair, Dorsey didn't want to re-sign Berry which was one of the worst contracts and decisions by the Chiefs maybe ever.

He's the one that wanted to keep Justin Houston, which ended up nearly as bad.

The point is that nobody is faultless. Dorsey isn't some genius and Veach isn't just some slouch either.

They both have had their successes and their failures. One of them however has been to two Super Bowls and the other has been fired twice in just about the same amount of time.

[O.city]

It's almost like it's really fucking hard to build and keep teams together and there's so much shit out of your control.

Get the QB and the coach right, plug along.

[O.city]

He absolutely has a lot of contributors. He needs to hit on some pillars now and do so by getting some studs, although Sneed just may be one. We'll see. Thornhill is also a hell of a player if he gets back to 100% this year. Nnadi is definitely solid for his position. I want to see him hit on LT, DE, and CB in the next 2 drafts, at least. And get us some more Super Bowls.

Getting those positions at where we'll be drafting aren't easy. Will have to develop them from lower rounders likely.

We've got the coaching staff for it, thankfully.

CB is overvalued in these parts (myself included). The Chiefs have dominated the league for years now with not much there.

Front 7 is where it's at.

[Titty Meat]

He's the one that wanted to keep Justin Houston, which ended up nearly as bad.

The point is that nobody is faultless. Dorsey isn't some genius and Veach isn't just some slouch either.

They both have had their successes and their failures. One of them however has been to two Super Bowls and the other has been fired twice in just about the same amount of time.

Only a retard would have not resigned Houston

[JakeF]

Dorsey drafted Dee Ford and Marcus Peters too. For all of the talent, you don't get credit for drafting players that are broken, physically or mentally.

For all of the great work he did with the offense, Dorsey built a terrible defense, hamstrung by soft players and bad contracts.
Both players had great talent.

If Ford wasn't injury prone he goes down as a great pass rusher.

Marcus Peter is doing ok in Baltimore. He either needed different coaches or to just grow up.

both players were worth the risk

Whenever Veach takes a risk everyone cheers and talks about what a big set a balls he has. Since Dorsey is no longer a Chief, people trash him.

It's a KC thing, once you leave you are a worthless POS

Andy Reid was wrong to kick Dorsey out of town. We need more than one person running the team. Now Reid runs everything and it shows.

[O.city]

Yeah, it shows. Damn those...checks notes....back to back SB appearances.

[htismaqe]

Only a retard would have not resigned Houston

There was no reason to give him that kind of contract structure at all.

[htismaqe]

Both players had great talent.

If Ford wasn't injury prone he goes down as a great pass rusher.

Ford was injured BEFORE he was ever drafted. More than once, and one of them was his back.

Worth the risk? ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Whenever Veach takes a risk everyone cheers and talks about what a big set a balls he has. Since Dorsey is no longer a Chief, people trash him.

That's just the thing. I'm not TRASHING Dorsey. I'm also not going to bow down and kiss his feet. He has his own issues, particularly with working as a team and ceding power. That's why he's been FIRED twice in the last 3 years.

You know there is a middle ground between a shit GM and a great GM and right now, it's occupied by BOTH Veach and Dorsey, right?

It's a KC thing, once you leave you are a worthless POS

The inability for CP to see anything other than black and white is always amazing to me.

[Titty Meat]

There was no reason to give him that kind of contract structure at all.

He had like 21 sacks in 14 his contract wasnt the issue he was going to get paid. Its nobody's fault his leg nearly snapped in half on a freak play.

[kccrow]

He's the one that wanted to keep Justin Houston, which ended up nearly as bad.

The point is that nobody is faultless. Dorsey isn't some genius and Veach isn't just some slouch either.

They both have had their successes and their failures. One of them however has been to two Super Bowls and the other has been fired twice in just about the same amount of time.

I'm not giving Veach or Dorsey more credit for the Super Bowls, they deserve equal justification there. It certainly isn't a testament to Veach nor is it a knock on Dorsey. They brought in talent in different ways and it achieved the ultimate result as a whole.

Like was said, it would have taken an idiot not to re-sign Justin Houston. Injuries were the demise of the deal, but he did ultimately return to form and has been quite good in Indy. Berry was an issue before the ink was put to paper and it became worse. That's the difference for me regarding those deals.

They both have faults, varying to different degrees in the eyes of the beholder.

[Chief Northman]

Anyone know what Mathieu is griping about on Twitter?
He’s pissed over something..

[ChiefAshhole1056]

I’d be interested to see what everyone’s tune on Veach would be if Shanny didn’t have cell service the night Trent Williams was deciding his fate. By all reports, Trent Williams pulled just short of an Emmanuel Sanders on KC. If that domino falls our way who knows how the rest of the offseason goes and essentially shapes Veach’s reputation. The guy did the work on his end, it just didn’t work out.

I’m excited to see what else he has up his sleeve though because he’s never been one for timidness, and could see him getting antsy after losing out on FA coming off a SB embarrassment. If there’s one thing Veach has displayed throughout his tenure it’s his aggressiveness, if there’s a player he likes that drops I think there’s going to be movement.