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View Full Version : Chiefs Good article on Veach improving as a GM


jjchieffan
05-09-2021, 08:24 AM
The article is pretty long, and has some charts included, so I'm not going to copy and paste it all, just tidbits. If you want to read the whole thing, the link is at the bottom.

Veach's work began before the draft with the Orlando Brown Jr. trade. The Brown trade has clear parallels to Veach's other blockbuster trade acquisition, when the Chiefs landed defensive end Frank Clark. But they also have some clear differences.


In the trade for Brown, Veach was more calculating in the draft capital he gave up.

In the Frank Clark trade, the Chiefs gave up a 2019 first-round pick, a 2020 second-round pick, and swapped third-round picks in 2019 with the Seahawks. That is a substantial amount of draft capital to give up for a player the Chiefs immediately played over $100 million.

The Brown trade was different. The Chiefs gave up a first, third, and fourth-round pick in 2021 along with a 2022 fifth-round pick and got back a 2021 second-round pick along with a 2022 sixth-round pick.


The differences in draft capital may not be immediately apparent, but they are immediately important.

A big win for the Brown trade was keeping almost all of the traded picks from the 2021 draft. It is much easier to appraise and evaluate what draft capital is expendable for a draft class that has already been scouted.

Another win came with the overall capital given up, as the Chiefs sacrificed less for a comparable player. Both Brown and Clark were ascending players, played important positions and were requesting to be traded from their original teams. Yet the Chiefs gave up less for Brown according to all the draft pick value charts out there. For example, according to the Rich Hill trade chart, the Chiefs gave up around 250 points of draft capital for Clark and only around 165 points of capital for Brown.

The key reason the Brown trade was a net win for the Chiefs was the return of Baltimore's second-round pick. That pick itself was the difference between the value of the Brown trade and the Clark trade. Veach himself said that the sweet spot of the 2021 NFL draft was the second-to-early-third round and him adding another pick in that range showed how he has evolved in trade negotiations since the Clark deal.


Take one of Veach's biggest swings of the draft, Florida State EDGE Joshua Kaindoh. The 6’6” 265-pound defensive end is more of an athlete than a polished pass rusher. However, he has shown the tools and technique in college which shows he understands what it takes at the position. Betting on his traits at the end of the fourth round is a very fair value proposition.

Contrast that with the pick of Ole Miss defensive lineman Breeland Speaks back in the 2018 draft. Veach traded up for Speaks in the second round of the 2018 draft and it was a bit of a shocking pick at the time. Speaks was not an exceptional athlete and did not carry a prototypical size for a defensive end. He was an undersized tackle who was too big to play end.

Speaks was the 222nd-ranked player on the Pro Football Focus big board, was not ranked on Sports Illustrated’s Top 100 big board, was ranked 69th on Mike Mayock’s big board, and was the 17th-highest ranked defensive lineman on Matt Miller’s big board. Even taking into account the highest ranking from the draft media at the time, Speaks was overdrafted with the 46th overall pick.

The evolution of the process from Speaks to Kaindoh really shows how Veach has evolved as a general manager. Taking smarter swings with this mindset will raise the floor and ceiling of the roster as it is constructed going forward.

https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/the-2021-draft-felt-like-a-small-evolution-of-brett-veach-as-general-manager

chiefzilla1501
05-09-2021, 08:54 AM
Interesting to look back and realize that veach had some rookie learning curve. I've always been really happy with him. But this offseason shows how much better he's gotten. I still think we got too little for Houston and Ford and gave up too much for Clark. But with veach, if we're nitpicking over value vs asking wtf were you thinking, we've got ourselves a good one. Even if we didn't get the best value we made the right decisions which is most important.

jjchieffan
05-09-2021, 08:58 AM
Interesting to look back and realize that veach had some rookie learning curve. I've always been really happy with him. But this offseason shows how much better he's gotten. I still think we got too little for Houston and Ford and gave up too much for Clark. But with veach, if we're nitpicking over value vs asking wtf were you thinking, we've got ourselves a good one. Even if we didn't get the best value we made the right decisions which is most important.

I agree. He did overpay for Clark, while getting way too little for Ford and Houston. But without those moves, they probably don't win or maybe even go to Superbowl 54. So it was still the right move.

kcclone
05-09-2021, 09:25 AM
I agree. He did overpay for Clark, while getting way too little for Ford and Houston. But without those moves, they probably don't win or maybe even go to Superbowl 54. So it was still the right move.

All mistakes prior to the Super Bowl are moot in my eyes. Two trips to the Super Bowl in two years with one trophy..... it's hard to argue with the results of those trades, including Clark.

To me all that matters now is what he does moving forward, and so far, I really like the 2021 draft.

Deberg_1990
05-09-2021, 09:38 AM
Sure, Speaks was a reach, but if you go look at that draft it was weak after about pick 40. Nobody picked near Speaks right after would have helped that much. Certainly no stars.

Redbled
05-09-2021, 11:33 AM
Interesting to look back and realize that veach had some rookie learning curve. I've always been really happy with him. But this offseason shows how much better he's gotten. I still think we got too little for Houston and Ford and gave up too much for Clark. But with veach, if we're nitpicking over value vs asking wtf were you thinking, we've got ourselves a good one. Even if we didn't get the best value we made the right decisions which is most important.

Was Houston traded?

staylor26
05-09-2021, 11:37 AM
Interesting to look back and realize that veach had some rookie learning curve. I've always been really happy with him. But this offseason shows how much better he's gotten. I still think we got too little for Houston and Ford and gave up too much for Clark. But with veach, if we're nitpicking over value vs asking wtf were you thinking, we've got ourselves a good one. Even if we didn't get the best value we made the right decisions which is most important.

1. Houston wasn’t traded.

2. We absolutely won the trade for Ford who’s been hurt the majority of the time since.

tredadda
05-09-2021, 11:39 AM
Interesting to look back and realize that veach had some rookie learning curve. I've always been really happy with him. But this offseason shows how much better he's gotten. I still think we got too little for Houston and Ford and gave up too much for Clark. But with veach, if we're nitpicking over value vs asking wtf were you thinking, we've got ourselves a good one. Even if we didn't get the best value we made the right decisions which is most important.

Disagree. Pretty sure we cut Houston and with Ford we got what we thought was going to be a high second for an oft injured situational pass rusher who was looking to get paid and paid well. The fact he got a second was surprising in and of itself.

wheeler08
05-09-2021, 11:53 AM
I would have been happy for a ham sammich for that piece of shit Ford!

notorious
05-09-2021, 12:00 PM
San Fran lost the Ford deal 1000%.

He has been an albatross for them.

Red Dawg
05-09-2021, 12:06 PM
San Fran lost the Ford deal 1000%.

He has been an albatross for them.

Yup. He's done nothing since fucking us out of a championship.

Pasta Little Brioni
05-09-2021, 12:12 PM
We won the fucking whole thing. The Clark move was 100 percent worth it. Anyone who says otherwise is a fucking moron still stuck on disagreeing with the trade at the time.

RunKC
05-09-2021, 12:15 PM
I thought that last offseason was a masterclass in GM’ing by Veach. I didn’t think he could possibly do any better but then you realize he didn’t have any major issues coming off the Super Bowl title.

This year was elite GM work. And it’s crazy that it just worked out the way it did bc Orlando Brown Jr was a better move than Trent Williams due to age, short term money and health. Same thing with Creed Humphrey compared to Rodney Hudson.

I do think it’s noticeable how well Veach does. I don’t think Wilson and Rodgers just get mad at their franchises. They see how good Patrick has it here and are extremely jealous.

They want a GM like Veach

Rasputin
05-09-2021, 12:21 PM
<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGeTVT-W0AIsSVA.jpg" alt="Kent Swanson on Twitter: &quot;Chiefs GM Brett Veach has the calves of a much larger man.… &quot;"/>


Just look at his calves (no homo) {I didn't take this pic}

I remember I saw him at training camp when I took my son in 2017 Patricks rookie season and was like wow look at the size of his calves but I didn't know it was Brett Veach but I heard someone say his name.

O.city
05-09-2021, 12:28 PM
I thought that last offseason was a masterclass in GM’ing by Veach. I didn’t think he could possibly do any better but then you realize he didn’t have any major issues coming off the Super Bowl title.

This year was elite GM work. And it’s crazy that it just worked out the way it did bc Orlando Brown Jr was a better move than Trent Williams due to age, short term money and health. Same thing with Creed Humphrey compared to Rodney Hudson.

I do think it’s noticeable how well Veach does. I don’t think Wilson and Rodgers just get mad at their franchises. They see how good Patrick has it here and are extremely jealous.

They want a GM like Veach

They just kept pivoting as things didn’t work out to the next option. Being able to be fluid and change like that is how the best front offices operate.

Rasputin
05-09-2021, 12:28 PM
I like listening to his pressers he doesn't talk down to us but at our level of understanding and he is great. Dorsey would keep talking about leaving ego at the door but he had an ego and fuck you Pissoli. King Carl just never got us a quarterback but we were either good on defense (Marty rip:( ) or good on offense (Dick Vermeil) but never balanced. I think Brett Veach is bringing balance to our football team the way he fixed our defense in one year was just a work of art.

Wilson8
05-09-2021, 12:41 PM
I like listening to his pressers he doesn't talk down to us but at our level of understanding and he is great. Dorsey would keep talking about leaving ego at the door but he had an ego and **** you Pissoli. King Carl just never got us a quarterback but we were either good on defense (Marty rip:( ) or good on offense (Dick Vermeil) but never balanced. I think Brett Veach is bringing balance to our football team the way he fixed our defense in one year was just a work of art.

I agree with this.

He is only 43, so maybe when he wins a few more Super Bowls his ego gets a little bigger. I really like Brett Veach and love to hear his media reports.

Deberg_1990
05-09-2021, 12:43 PM
I remember I saw him at training camp when I took my son in 2017 Patricks rookie season and was like wow look at the size of his calves but I didn't know it was Brett Veach but I heard someone say his name.

From my understanding, he was a pretty damn good athlete in high school and college.

bevischief
05-09-2021, 01:35 PM
I thought that last offseason was a masterclass in GM’ing by Veach. I didn’t think he could possibly do any better but then you realize he didn’t have any major issues coming off the Super Bowl title.

This year was elite GM work. And it’s crazy that it just worked out the way it did bc Orlando Brown Jr was a better move than Trent Williams due to age, short term money and health. Same thing with Creed Humphrey compared to Rodney Hudson.

I do think it’s noticeable how well Veach does. I don’t think Wilson and Rodgers just get mad at their franchises. They see how good Patrick has it here and are extremely jealous.

They want a GM like Veach

This