So you think you know Chiefs pass rushers?

[Rain Man]

As you undoubtedly know, sacks became an official NFL statistic in 1982. Before that year, we have nothing but legend and mystery.

However, Pro football reference now says that they went back to 1960 and did research to build sack stats back to that year for the NFL. So if you trust those numbers, we now ostensibly have sack statistics for the entire Chiefs' history.

The data is behind a paywall, but fortunately so am I. So let's test your knowledge. I'll post questions periodically and let's see how Chiefsplanet answers them.

Note: all data refers to players' careers with the Chiefs only. If someone comes from another team or goes to another team, their stats on those teams don't count. It's the Chiefs, the whole Chiefs, and nothing but the Chiefs.

Question #1 is easy. List the top ten Chiefs in terms of career sacks.

[wazu]

If only Ubeja was still alive.

[TribalElder]

DT #1

[Rain Man]

DT #1

You are correct.

#1 - Derrick Thomas 126.5
#2 -
#3 -
#4 -
#5 -
#6 -
#7 -
#8 -
#9 -
#10 -

[bricks]

Tamba Hali # 2

[DaneMcCloud]

Thomas
Houston
Mike Bell
Art Still
Buck Buchanan
Bill Maas

Neil SmithBobby Bell
Tamba Hali

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Daniel Sorenson #2

[Rain Man]

Tamba Hali # 2

Thomas
Houston
Mike Bell
Art Still
Buck Buchanan
Bill Maas

Neil SmithBobby Bell
Tamba Hali

#1 - Derrick Thomas 126.5
#2 - Tamba Hali - 89.5
#3 - Neil Smith - 85.5
#4 - Justin Houston - 78.5
#5 - Art Still - 74
#6 - Buck Buchanan - 70.5
#7 -
#8 - Mike Bell - 52
#9 -
#10 -

Bobby Bell and Bill Maas are tied for 13th.

[Rain Man]

Daniel Sorenson #2

Tied for 107th with William Bartee, Monty Beisel, Deron Cherry, George Seals, and Wayne Simmons

[Why Not?]

I would guess Jared Allen is 9th or 10th?

[Why Not?]

I would guess Jared Allen is 9th or 10th?

Shit. Had to look it up.....he's 11th. lol

[Chiefspants]

Was Elvis Grbac the reason we couldn’t hold onto Neil Smith?

Blergh.

[Why Not?]

Also, Wallace Gilberry and Frank Clark have the same amount of KC sacks. Although, to be fair, good ol' Wallace played 4 season for the Chiefs.

[cdcox]

Aaron Brown looks tasty for that number 9 slot.

[cdcox]

Jerry Mays 7
Eric Hicks 10

[Rain Man]

Shit. Had to look it up.....he's 11th. lol

Yep. #11.

[Rain Man]

Aaron Brown looks tasty for that number 9 slot.

Jerry Mays 7
Eric Hicks 10

Bingo.

#1 - Derrick Thomas - 126.5
#2 - Tamba Hali - 89.5
#3 - Neil Smith - 85.5
#4 - Justin Houston - 78.5
#5 - Art Still - 74
#6 - Buck Buchanan - 70.5
#7 - Jerry Mays - 65.5
#8 - Mike Bell - 52
#9 - Aaron Brown - 51
#10 - Eric Hicks - 44.5

[cdcox]

https://i.ibb.co/7WqgSnF/Picture3.png (https://ibb.co/d2RbfPy)

I'm not sure if this will plot well, but here goes. I plotted sacks per season by the players last year in the league. This method of plotting emphasizes outlier performances compared to peers during the era. My takeaway is that Deacon Jones was by far the best pass rusher ever, and it's not close.

[Bowser]

Apparently we know out Chiefs pass rushers

[MagicHef]

https://i.ibb.co/7WqgSnF/Picture3.png (https://ibb.co/d2RbfPy)

I'm not sure if this will plot well, but here goes. I plotted sacks per season by the players last year in the league. This method of plotting emphasizes outlier performances compared to peers during the era. My takeaway is that Deacon Jones was by far the best pass rusher ever, and it's not close.

Not sure I understand. It looks like Reggie White and Von Miller are close to Deacon Jones, and Aaron Donald is above him.

[RealSNR]

I was going to say Eric Hicks and feel cool that I knew the difficult one, but then I realized I'd be saying "Eric Hicks" to feel cool, and I decided to go do something else like mow the lawn or eat a cookie

[Chiefspants]

I was going to say Eric Hicks and feel cool that I knew the difficult one, but then I realized I'd be saying "Eric Hicks" to feel cool, and I decided to go do something else like mow the lawn or eat a cookie

There was never a bootleg that Eric Hicks didn't want to bite completely on.

[Rain Man]

Not sure I understand. It looks like Reggie White and Von Miller are close to Deacon Jones, and Aaron Donald is above him.

I too require explanation. Are these the top five guys who retired each year? I can't quite read the x axis.

And I'll correct MagicHef's unfortunate error by saying that it looks like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas are close to Deacon Jones, and Aaron Donald is above him.

[MagicHef]

I too require explanation. Are these the top five guys who retired each year? I can't quite read the x axis.

And I'll correct MagicHef's unfortunate error by saying that it looks like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas are close to Deacon Jones, and Aaron Donald is above him.

I regret to inform you that Derrick Thomas is closer to DeMarcus Ware than Von Miller.

https://i.ibb.co/RgVCrZF/PR.png

[Deberg_1990]

Does Eric Hicks still suck?

[In58men]

Free agent pass-rusher Alex Okafor is signing back with the #Chiefs, source said. He gets a 1-year deal and will return to KC, his home for the last two seasons

[Gary Cooper]

Is Eric "Bootleg" Hicks on the list?

[Hammock Parties]

Buck was a beast, damn.

[Rain Man]

Okay, here's your next question. 46 Chiefs recorded 10 or more sacks in their Chiefs career. Of those, name the top 10 in terms of sacks per game played.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Bowser]

R-Kal Truluck

[Bowser]

Vonnie Holiday

[Bowser]

Dan Williams

[Bowser]

....off the top of my head

[Jewish Rabbi]

Junior Siavii

[cdcox]

I too require explanation. Are these the top five guys who retired each year? I can't quite read the x axis.

And I'll correct MagicHef's unfortunate error by saying that it looks like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas are close to Deacon Jones, and Aaron Donald is above him.

The data are the top 250 pass rushers since 1960. They are plotted in chronological order, based on the last year they played. My praise of Deacon Jones is based on how far above his contemporary peers he is compared to other players. Players who played in a common era faced similar offensive lines, styles of play, and played under common rules. Deacon was a real standout of his era. I discount Aaron Donald a bit because he is in the prime of his career, and hasn't yet recorded the last few years of his career where a player's productivity often rolls off. He Donald remains dominant through his retirement, he might unseat Jones as the most dominant pass rusher of all time.

[cdcox]

Okay, here's your next question. 46 Chiefs recorded 10 or more sacks in their Chiefs career. Of those, name the top 10 in terms of sacks per game played.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

I suspect Curly Culp and Jared Allen will do well on this list.
I'll add the usual suspects: DT, Buck Buchanan, Aaron Brown, Jerry Mays.

[Rain Man]

R-Kal Truluck

Sadly, he did not make the 10 sack cutoff.

Vonnie Holiday

See above.

Dan Williams

Wow! I thought he'd be a tough out, but you got it. He's #6 all time.


1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - 0.56
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Mecca]

Derrick Thomas is first, when you had e his career total his per game number is like .76

[Rain Man]

Derrick Thomas is first, when you had e his career total his per game number is like .76

That's a good guess, and you're close. He's #2.

1.
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3.
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - .56
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Jenson71]

Bingo.

#1 - Derrick Thomas - 126.5
#2 - Tamba Hali - 89.5
#3 - Neil Smith - 85.5
#4 - Justin Houston - 78.5
#5 - Art Still - 74
#6 - Buck Buchanan - 70.5
#7 - Jerry Mays - 65.5
#8 - Mike Bell - 52
#9 - Aaron Brown - 51
#10 - Eric Hicks - 44.5

It would be interesting to break down the comparison between DT and Buck Buchanan. For example, Thomas played in 169 games versus BB playing in 182, but of those games, how many passing plays were there?

Thomas played from 89-99, and during those years, the top passing attempts leader in the NFL averaged 601 attempts (over 16 games). But in Buchanan's days, the top passing attempts leader averaged 464 (I'm factoring in the two games the teams played less, as it was actually 406 over 14 games).

So can someone break down how these players compare in sacks per opportunity to see who was the most dominating sack monster in Chiefs history?

I'd guess DT still wins out, but Buchanan has got to be further up there.

[suzzer99]

Justin Houston has to be up there in sacks/game.

[Rain Man]

It would be interesting to break down the comparison between DT and Buck Buchanan. For example, Thomas played in 169 games versus BB playing in 182, but of those games, how many passing plays were there?

Thomas played from 89-99, and during those years, the top passing attempts leader in the NFL averaged 601 attempts (over 16 games). But in Buchanan's days, the top passing attempts leader averaged 464 (I'm factoring in the two games the teams played less, as it was actually 406 over 14 games).

So can someone break down how these players compare in sacks per opportunity to see who was the most dominating sack monster in Chiefs history?

I'd guess DT still wins out, but Buchanan has got to be further up there.

That would indeed be interesting. I bet a good proxy could be easily done by just dividing sacks by the average passing attempts per game.

I was initially thinking that the old-timers might have more sacks per game due to the pass-blocking rules in place in those years. It was much harder to pass protect. But you're right in that there was a lot less passing in general, which may more than compensate.

[Rain Man]

Justin Houston has to be up there in sacks/game.

You bring home the gold. Houston is #1. This surprises me a little given how long it took him to come back fully from the injury.

1. Justin Houston - .77
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3.
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - .56
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Mecca]

Houston had a 20 sack season and missed a bunch of games following, all the missed games actually help his number.

Jared Allen is probably on there.

[Rain Man]

Houston had a 20 sack season and missed a bunch of games following, all the missed games actually help his number.

Jared Allen is probably on there.

Interesting that you would bring up Jared Allen. #3 all time.

1. Justin Houston - .77
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - .56
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Chief Northman]

Tamba and Jared Allen

[oldman]

Culp would probably be in the top 10, Tamba would be another good guess. I would think Smith would be up there as well. Buck was pretty beat up the last couple of years of his time and I don't remember him being much of a force.

[Rain Man]

Tamba and Jared Allen

Culp would probably be in the top 10, Tamba would be another good guess. I would think Smith would be up there as well. Buck was pretty beat up the last couple of years of his time and I don't remember him being much of a force.

Mr. Hali does indeed make the list, and Mr. Smith is pretty high on the list. Mr. Culp is close, but he's ranked #13. Mr. Buchanan is ranked #16 with his long era of production.

1. Justin Houston - .77 sacks per game
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4.
5. Neil Smith - .62
6. Dan Williams - .56
7.
8.
9. Tamba Hali - .51
10.

[oldman]

Art Still (duh!!).

[Dartgod]

Mike Bell

[scho63]

Bingo.

#1 - Derrick Thomas - 126.5
#2 - Tamba Hali - 89.5
#3 - Neil Smith - 85.5
#4 - Justin Houston - 78.5
#5 - Art Still - 74
#6 - Buck Buchanan - 70.5
#7 - Jerry Mays - 65.5
#8 - Mike Bell - 52
#9 - Aaron Brown - 51
#10 - Eric Hicks - 44.5

Guy got stuck playing great on super shitty teams. Wasted talent

[R Clark]

Guy got stuck playing great on super shitty teams. Wasted talent

Truth

[scho63]

Guy got stuck playing great on super shitty teams. Wasted talent

Truth

He would have had 100-120 sacks easily on a better defense. He was a beast in his day. Super strong and quick for a guy not really that big. :thumb:

I followed him a lot as a kid because he was a Jersey guy

[oldman]

Guy got stuck playing great on super shitty teams. Wasted talent

Steadman let the team get old and Schaaf didn't do much better. C'mon, man -- Mike Livingston as your QB? Then Schaaf picks Todd Blackledge out of the QB pool?

[Rain Man]

Art Still (duh!!).

Mr. Still, one of my favorite players ever, is indeed on the list, which is pretty darn impressive for a 3-4 defensive end.

1. Justin Houston - .77 sacks per game
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4.
5. Neil Smith - .62
6. Dan Williams - .56
7. Art Still - .54
8.
9. Tamba Hali - .51
10.

[Rain Man]

Mike Bell

Mr. Bell is top-20, but not top 10. He ranks 17th in sacks per game.

[PHOG]

Chris Jones?

[Rain Man]

Chris Jones?

An excellent guess. Our pass-deflector extraordinaire also produces sacks efficiently.

1. Justin Houston - .77 sacks per game
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4.
5. Neil Smith - .62
6. Dan Williams - .56
7. Art Still - .54
8. Chris Jones - .53
9. Tamba Hali - .51
10.

[Rain Man]

Our remaining guys played roughly 50 years apart if you need a hint.

[ThaVirus]

Our remaining guys played roughly 50 years apart if you need a hint.

Dee Ford is the more recent name, I'd guess. Maybe Frank Clark.

The older name maybe someone like Buck Buchanan or something? I know very little of Chiefs prior to the 90s.

[Rain Man]

Dee Ford is the more recent name, I'd guess. Maybe Frank Clark.

The older name maybe someone like Buck Buchanan or something? I know very little of Chiefs prior to the 90s.

Mr. Buchanan is 16th (albeit as a DT in a run-heavy era), and Mr. Ford is close with a #12 ranking. But Mr. Clark, for all of his controversy, is a top-10 pass rusher for us.

1. Justin Houston - .77 sacks per game
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4.
5. Neil Smith - .62
6. Dan Williams - .56
7. Art Still - .54
8. Chris Jones - .53
9. Tamba Hali - .51
10. Frank Clark - .48

[Rain Man]

The vast majority of these guys played on generally winning teams where they probably had a lot of obvious pass rush opportunities late in the game. Then think about Art Still, who had ten years with the Chiefs and only two seasons above .500 (at 9-7 and 10-6). I really think the guy would be a Hall of Famer if he had played on better teams.

[KCrockaholic]

This is actually super cool info. I’ve always wanted to know the sack totals prior to 82.

[RealSNR]

I'm going to say Aaron Brown, only because I can't think of who else it might be from that era.

[Rain Man]

I'm going to say Aaron Brown, only because I can't think of who else it might be from that era.

We have a winner!

1. Justin Houston - .77 sacks per game
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4. Aaron Brown - .65
5. Neil Smith - .62
6. Dan Williams - .56
7. Art Still - .54
8. Chris Jones - .53
9. Tamba Hali - .51
10. Frank Clark - .48

[ThaVirus]

Interesting. I have literally never heard the name Aaron Brown before today.

[Rain Man]

Interesting. I have literally never heard the name Aaron Brown before today.

I barely remember him as a little kid. He's actually the first Chief that I ever saw get traded, so that's my main memory. I was young and couldn't imagine getting traded away from the Chiefs.

[cdcox]

Interesting. I have literally never heard the name Aaron Brown before today.

Aaron Brown will always be a favorite of mine because he delivered the game cinching play in SBIV when he sacked Joe Kapp and knocked him out of the game. That is my first memory of going from pins and needles one moment to celebration the next.

[Mecca]

Aaron Brown will always be a favorite of mine because he delivered the game cinching play in SBIV when he sacked Joe Kapp and knocked him out of the game. That is my first memory of going from pins and needles one moment to celebration the next.

You are old sir.

[cdcox]

Remarkably, Aaron Brown was like the 7th or 8th best player on that defense.

[cdcox]

You are old sir.

Despite the miles on the odometer, I don't feel particularly old. Hopefully I have a long ride ahead.

[Rain Man]

Let's look at the evolution of Chiefs pass rush records now. I'll go through each year, list the top five sack guys on the team, and note the all-time record holder.

We'll start with 1960. Man, these early teams are a mystery to me. I've barely heard of Smokey Stover and don't know the other guys at all.

Season Sack Leaders

Mel Branch 10
Paul Rochester 8
Paul Miller 7.5
Ray Collins 6
Smokey Stover 3.5

All-time leaders as of this year.

(The same, obviously.)

[Dunerdr]

Vonnie Holliday is such an under rated name.

[oldman]

Let's look at the evolution of Chiefs pass rush records now. I'll go through each year, list the top five sack guys on the team, and note the all-time record holder.

We'll start with 1960. Man, these early teams are a mystery to me. I've barely heard of Smokey Stover and don't know the other guys at all.

Season Sack Leaders

Mel Branch 10
Paul Rochester 8
Paul Miller 7.5
Ray Collins 6
Smokey Stover 3.5

All-time leaders as of this year.

(The same, obviously.)

A lot of the Texans were marginal NFL guys that only played a couple years in the AFL. About the time the team moved to KC they started signing guys to higher salaries than the NFL.

[Rain Man]

1961's leading sackers.

Smokey Stover 5.5
Paul Rochester 4.5
E.J. Holub 3.5
Mel Branch 3.5
Jerry Mays 3
Sherrill Headrick 3

All-time leaderboard as of 1961

Mel Branch 13.5
Paul Rochester 12.5
Paul Miller 10
Smokey Stover 9
Ray Collins 6

[Rain Man]

1962's sack leaders

Mel Branch 5.5
E.J. Holub 4.5
Jerry Mays 4.5
Paul Rochester 2.5
Sherrill Headrick 2.5

All-time leaderboard as of 1962

Mel Branch 19
Paul Rochester 15
Smokey Stover 10.5
Paul Miller 10
E.J. Holub 8

Mel Branch and Paul Rochester continue cementing their legacy, but EJ Holub and Jerry Mays are consistently producing.

[Titty Meat]

No R-Kal Trulock???

[cdcox]

The conflagration of Mel Blount (DB Steelers) with Cliff Branch (WR Raiders) into Chiefs pass rusher extraordinaire Mel Branch is triggering early onset Alzheimers. I feel like I am remembering things I don't actually remember.