Should Eagles' tush push be banned? It was not long ago.

[notorious]

People are starting to get tired of the once illegal "Tush Push".

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/should-eagles-tush-push-be-banned-jalen-hurts-i-have-no-thoughts-on-it-222308344.html

Should Eagles' tush push be banned?

Frank Schwab

The NFL has banned plays or strategies for different reasons through its history.

Sometimes it's for safety reasons. Once in a while it's because a play becomes uncompetitive. Oftentimes the league bans things just for the aesthetics of the game.

The Philadelphia Eagles' "tush push" checks all of those boxes.

When the Eagles have faced a third- or fourth-and-short the past two seasons, everyone knows what's coming and everyone knows it'll work. The Eagles align with Hurts under center, with a couple of teammates right behind him. On the snap, Hurts sneaks it forward and gets pushed from behind by his teammates. Just about every time it's a first down or a touchdown. Even if it's stopped once, good luck stopping it a second time.

It's pretty much unstoppable, and the frustration of it has gotten to the unfortunate point in which people are wishing harm on Hurts.
Eagles run tush push better than anyone else

It's surprising the NFL didn't ban the play last offseason. Like plenty of other strategic innovations, like the shift in Major League Baseball, sometimes leagues tip their cap to inventive teams and ban a play or strategy for the good of the game.

But the play stayed. And the Eagles keep running it. Hurts was asked about it Wednesday, and didn't seem to care if it got banned.

But, until that happens, the Eagles are still going to be unstoppable doing it.

"I have no thoughts on it," Hurts told the media Wednesday, when asked if the tush push should be banned. "We're the only people that are doing it as well as we are. There was a guy who wanted me hurt for it, too."

Hurts didn't clarify what he meant by the last comment. Though Wednesday, Chris Simms of NBC Sports said that if he was a defensive coach he'd be asking his players to go "headhunting" on the quarterback. Yikes.

Nobody, except maybe Simms, is saying the Eagles are doing anything wrong. It's within the rules and the Eagles take advantage of it.

Maybe it will take an injury to get the NFL's competition committee to reconsider. There seems to be a reasonable risk of injury when a large man is being pushed from behind into a scrum of much larger men. It's not a play that has a lot of suspense, after the Eagles run it over and over to success.

Then again, maybe if you ban the push, the Eagles would still be as good at quarterback sneaks. Having a quarterback with an insanely strong lower body running behind the NFL's best offensive line is probably going to work too, as former NFL defensive lineman J.J. Watt pointed out.

We're going to see a lot more of the play this season. But let's not insinuate that Hurts deserves to be injured just because the Eagles found a practically unstoppable play.

[notorious]

It was illegal not long ago. I remember reading about it in one of the those old 1970's "Silly facts about Football" books when I was a kid.

For decades, NFL rules prohibited offensive players from directly aiding a runner in any way, whether it was pushing or pulling him. But in 2005 — six months before the Bush Push — the league clarified its stance. There would be no pulling of ball carriers by teammates, but pushing was too difficult to legislate."

It was too difficult to legislate until it became obvious like how the Eagles do it.

They are within the rules currently, and I'm not complaining about that. There was a reason the rule existed before.

[RealSNR]

Oh, it's hard to tell something on the football field?

Like how close an offensive lineman is lined up to some mythical line drawn on the field?

Ya don't say!

[Jewish Rabbi]

Look, I hate it as much as anyone else, but if it was so easy and uncompetitive every other team would be doing it too. As it stands, no other team is as successful running this play. The Eagles have the perfect QB and offensive line to make this play work. You run into a slippery slope when you start banning plays. Are the Chiefs not allowed to pass on 4th and long because Mahomes converts it more than anyone else? Ravens not allowed to kick long field goals at the end of the game because Tucker is better than anyone else? Bears not allowed to run screen passes because the defense is going to intercept every other one?

[kysirsoze]

I would ban it for safety reasons I think, but I don't think it would have a huge impact on the Eagles success. Hell, Brady was practically automatic on one yard QB sneaks. Hurts and that line would pick up most of these.

[Buehler445]

Don’t care.

They run the risk. Hurts can squat 400 or whatever,

Teams just need to stop them before they get into short.

I’m not freaking out about anything. Their offense hasn’t been crisp this year anyway.

[notorious]

Look, I hate it as much as anyone else, but if it was so easy and uncompetitive every other team would be doing it too. As it stands, no other team is as successful running this play. The Eagles have the perfect QB and offensive line to make this play work. You run into a slippery slope when you start banning plays. Are the Chiefs not allowed to pass on 4th and long because Mahomes converts it more than anyone else? Ravens not allowed to kick long field goals at the end of the game because Tucker is better than anyone else? Bears not allowed to run screen passes because the defense is going to intercept every other one?

The Broncos aren't allowed to suck because it's an easy win for their opponent?

[Bearcat]

Look, I hate it as much as anyone else, but if it was so easy and uncompetitive every other team would be doing it too. As it stands, no other team is as successful running this play. The Eagles have the perfect QB and offensive line to make this play work. You run into a slippery slope when you start banning plays. Are the Chiefs not allowed to pass on 4th and long because Mahomes converts it more than anyone else? Ravens not allowed to kick long field goals at the end of the game because Tucker is better than anyone else? Bears not allowed to run screen passes because the defense is going to intercept every other one?

I think it's simpler than that... just saying you can't aid another player forward does the trick, and as notorious said, it was a rule for years (didn't realize it had been nearly 20 years though).

It's not a specific play per se, but a more fundamental rule for/against how you execute plays.

I personally don't really care and you'd also run into enforcement issues anyway, and the refs fuck up enough stuff as it is, so I'd rather not give them another rule to fuck up and over enforce.

[Simply Red]

TL/DR but yes, absolutely.

[Why Not?]

How would you differentiate a rule that allows the O-line to push the RB down field but makes the Tush Push illegal? I guess you could outlaw all aiding the runner but I think it's awesome when the fatties are down field pushing the RB. If the Eagles play was so revolutionary and devastating they would've, you know, actually won the Super Bowl. As it is, I believe but feel free to fact check me on this, that a different team won it last season?

[WhawhaWhat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My problem with the tush push is the <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFL</a> literally banned defensive players from pushing other players into the offensive formation on FG and PATs because it was a “Health and safety issue” but now it’s ok because it benefits the offense? <a href="https://t.co/BoCxRGmjsW">https://t.co/BoCxRGmjsW</a> <a href="https://t.co/osvitttlQ5">https://t.co/osvitttlQ5</a> <a href="https://t.co/RrsV0omLWg">pic.twitter.com/RrsV0omLWg</a></p>&mdash; Richard Sherman (@RSherman_25) <a href="https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/1707104339221967279?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ThaVirus]

Richard Sherman made a good point on it recently:

“ My problem with the tush push is the @NFL literally banned defensive players from pushing other players into the offensive formation on FG and PATs because it was a “Health and safety issue” but now it’s ok because it benefits the offense?”

This was the opinion of a Redskins center from back when they outlawed overloading 10 years ago:

“What players are saying about it: "I had a game, we played the Bengals ... and I had two guys over me and two guys behind them pushing, so it was basically four-on-one. My foot slipped, and I actually went down and did a split and pulled a hamstring. I'm like, 'Man, this is ridiculous.' Like, it's literally impossible to hold up that much force. I emailed (NFLPA executive director) DeMaurice Smith and got the ball rolling with that." -- Washington Redskins center Will Montgomery.”

So basically you just make it a player safety issue. On top of that, it is an ugly ass play that isn’t exciting in the least.

[Eleazar]

If defensive players start crowding up to the line and leaping over the top at the QB, the offensive team might stop doing it. Or the league will stop it due to the risk of injury for everyone involved in that

I agree that the play sucks primarily because it's uncompetitive, there's really no way to stop it and it takes all the drama out of those 3rd or 4th and short situations, which isn't good for football.

[KC_Lee]

The moment that Hurts injures his back via being pushed two separate directions from above and below it will get banned.

[Bearcat]

How would you differentiate a rule that allows the O-line to push the RB down field but makes the Tush Push illegal? I guess you could outlaw all aiding the runner but I think it's awesome when the fatties are down field pushing the RB. If the Eagles play was so revolutionary and devastating they would've, you know, actually won the Super Bowl. As it is, I believe but feel free to fact check me on this, that a different team won it last season?

They damn near did. It obviously doesn't help prevent the other team from scoring, but they were 11/18 on 3rd down... that's the defense getting to 3rd down a lot and it feels like half of those conversions were 3rd and short pushes.

Take a couple of those away, it's a different game entirely (don't think he was actually pushed on that 2 point conversion, but of course it wasn't "the play").

[BigRedChief]

thread fail. Asked a question but no poll?

We are not rugby. Ban that shit.

[Chiefnj2]

I'm amazed not everybody is doing it with 2 or less yards to go. Seems like a no brainer to me. The NFL won't stop it/enforce it unless: (1) a star QB gets injured, (2) viewership goes down because all teams are doing it and it gets boring, or (3) Collinsworth complains in a prime-time game.

[HC_Chief]

No.
Don't like it? Git gud.

[ThaVirus]

I'm amazed not everybody is doing it with 2 or less yards to go. Seems like a no brainer to me. The NFL won't stop it/enforce it unless: (1) a star QB gets injured, (2) viewership goes down because all teams are doing it and it gets boring, or (3) Collinsworth complains in a prime-time game.

The Eagles really are uniquely suited for the play.

They’re so much better at it than a team like KC would be.

[crispystl]

I think it's simpler than that... just saying you can't aid another player forward does the trick, and as notorious said, it was a rule for years (didn't realize it had been nearly 20 years though).

It's not a specific play per se, but a more fundamental rule for/against how you execute plays.

I personally don't really care and you'd also run into enforcement issues anyway, and the refs **** up enough stuff as it is, so I'd rather not give them another rule to **** up and over enforce.

You could even limit it to the person that takes the snap. If you can't aid that person then the play doesn't work and you aren't affecting any other part of the game.

[Chiefnj2]

The Eagles really are uniquely suited for the play.

They’re so much better at it than a team like KC would be.

I would say that is speculative as KC hasn’t even tried a “normal “ QB sneak in years.

[ThaVirus]

I would say that is speculative as KC hasn’t even tried a “normal “ QB sneak in years.

We’ve tried them several times over the years with Blake Bell.

[Red Dawg]

RB's get pushed while in a pile of their OL in a mob into the end zone all the time and I don't like that either. I don't think pushing your guy forward should be allowed. They have taken it to new heights with the QB sneak by lining up two players behind the QB. Even Brady never had that.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Defenses should start intentionally diving at the knees of the OL when they run this play. It'll stop soon enough.

[Rainbarrel]

They will find an answer. Only to have the Eagles fans question the legality of the answer. Seems familiar, can't place it

[OKchiefs]

Defenses should start intentionally diving at the knees of the OL when they run this play. It'll stop soon enough.

Can't dive at the QBs knees, correct? However, when they run this play the QB becomes a runner, so at that point they shouldn't have the same protection as normal as a QB as far as I"m aware. In that case defenses should come around the outside and start going low on Hurts. Not suggesting they try to injure him, but whatever happens happens. Minkah Fitzpatrick can go low on Chubb and it's apparently not dirty, in this case Hurts is no different than Chubb as a runner and his lower half should be fair game as well.

[smithandrew051]

I hope it gets banned, because the Chiefs don’t run it. So, it only helps the Chiefs for it to go away.

I doubt that happens, so the Eagles will have to choose to stop running it. That’ll only happen if it becomes ineffective (unlikely) or someone important gets hurt doing it.

[ReynardMuldrake]

As soon as the Bills lose a playoff game from it, they will change the rule.

[Wallcrawler]

It's a yard. Big fucking deal. If it's so unstoppable, call it yourself and take advantage.

[DaFace]

Maybe? But I really hate making rules clearly meant to impact one team. If it's so easy to exploit, other teams would be doing it.

[DrunkBassGuitar]

I don't really have a problem with it but I kinda think they should get rid of it because its so boring and predictable now but mostly i want it to be banned because it would be another thing for eagles fans to be mad about and that's funny to me

[BWillie]

Since we are too big of a group of pussies to do it...yes.

[wazu]

I don't really care if it's banned or not, but since it's not I wish we would do it. Probably not with Patrick but it doesn't need to be a QB when it's that blatantly obvious what you're doing anyway.

[smithandrew051]

Maybe? But I really hate making rules clearly meant to impact one team. If it's so easy to exploit, other teams would be doing it.

I think it takes a pretty specific skill set at QB and IOL to run it correctly so often.

I’m fine with banning any play that the Chiefs don’t run, because it benefits us.

I just don’t see it happening.

[loochy]

No.
Don't like it? Git gud.


This is my opinion on stuff like this. Find a way to stop it. Bitching to the league office is not a valid method for this.

[jettio]

If teams want the rule change, they need to start a fight every time the opponent runs the play.

If it is for a first down in the middle of the field, offer no resistance to the linemen and let them burrow on the ground, then stand on them and then beat the living shit out of the ball carrier while holding him up and helping him keep getting slow forward progress. try to make him fumble, and keep beating the shit out of him and have a scrum fight that involves too many players to kick out anyone.

The way to make it a player safety issue is the same way taunting became a player safety issue. Have Aqib Talib rip off Michael Crabtree's chains and then say taunting has to be outlawed to prevent fighting provoked by taunting.

[LoneWolf]

As long as my wife doesn't ban the tush push, I don't care what the NFL does.

[Red Dawg]

Definitely bad for TV and totally a pussy move.

[TEX]

It's an ugly play for sure, but I don't want it banned. Just figure out a way to stop it.

[Shields68]

If teams want the rule change, they need to start a fight every time the opponent runs the play.

If it is for a first down in the middle of the field, offer no resistance to the linemen and let them burrow on the ground, then stand on them and then beat the living shit out of the ball carrier while holding him up and helping him keep getting slow forward progress. try to make him fumble, and keep beating the shit out of him and have a scrum fight that involves too many players to kick out anyone.

The way to make it a player safety issue is the same way taunting became a player safety issue. Have Aqib Talib rip off Michael Crabtree's chains and then say taunting has to be outlawed to prevent fighting provoked by taunting.

Guess the problem is that football is violent, short yardage is violent, injuries happen on just about every play.

This play is actually probably has less a risk of injury given no one really has a running start. It is not like a ball carrier getting blown up 2 yards in the backfield by a defender coming free.

Using risk of injury is more of a wink wink we do not like the play. Though I think the NFL should look at how the center and other lineman are aligned in the formation. A lot of times Kelce looks to have his head almost passed the ball. Maybe they should go to a true neutral zone and no ones helmet can be in the area of the ball...

[Gravedigger]

I think the league should've put a squash on it when they had the chance before the season. Now that you've let that time pass without change it'll be harder to justify changing it now.

[jettio]

Guess the problem is that football is violent, short yardage is violent, injuries happen on just about every play.

This play is actually probably has less a risk of injury given no one really has a running start. It is not like a ball carrier getting blown up 2 yards in the backfield by a defender coming free.

Using risk of injury is more of a wink wink we do not like the play. Though I think the NFL should look at how the center and other lineman are aligned in the formation. A lot of times Kelce looks to have his head almost passed the ball. Maybe they should go to a true neutral zone and no ones helmet can be in the area of the ball...

My view is that assisting the runner was banned for most of football history.

This play is the extreme example of assisting the runner that was not contemplated when the rule was changed to allow assisting the runner.

A lot of time when a law or rule is changed to end a prohibition, there will arise an example that proves why there was a prohibition in the first place.

I think it is okay to assist the runner if it is not part of the initial play design, like CEH's TD on Sunday.

But I am not in favor of a play that has a formation where some of the players' jobs are to push the ball carrier as soon as ball is snapped.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

I hated it when the aiding the runner rule was changed to make it legal. The refs also blow the whistle way to late for forward progress on this play as well. If it's stopped, the whistle should blow, but they wait until moment is achieved again and then blow the whistle.

[Shields68]

My view is that assisting the runner was banned for most of football history.

This play is the extreme example of assisting the runner that was not contemplated when the rule was changed to allow assisting the runner.

A lot of time when a law or rule is changed to end a prohibition, there will arise an example that proves why there was a prohibition in the first place.

I think it is okay to assist the runner if it is not part of the initial play design, like CEH's TD on Sunday.

But I am not in favor of a play that has a formation where some of the players' jobs are to push the ball carrier as soon as ball is snapped.

I have no problem with outlawing the assist of the runner. Just disagree that it would be for safety reasons. I also not sure it will change a lot on the play. The play really is tough to stop on how low the OL gets, the Ol's size and strentgh and Hurts leg drive. Maybe a fine point but the other players would be still allowedd to push the OL guys to move the pile.

[Hammock Parties]

As soon as someone's QB gets his leg broken doing this teams will stop.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My problem with the tush push is the <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFL</a> literally banned defensive players from pushing other players into the offensive formation on FG and PATs because it was a “Health and safety issue” but now it’s ok because it benefits the offense? <a href="https://t.co/BoCxRGmjsW">https://t.co/BoCxRGmjsW</a> <a href="https://t.co/osvitttlQ5">https://t.co/osvitttlQ5</a> <a href="https://t.co/RrsV0omLWg">pic.twitter.com/RrsV0omLWg</a></p>&mdash; Richard Sherman (@RSherman_25) <a href="https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/1707104339221967279?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

No different than how offensive players can stiff arm in the face mask but defenders can't do the same.

[Trevo_410]

I've seen different teams doing it already this year. It's not just the eagles. The Colts, Jaguars, Bears, and Giants have tried it this year and its only a matter of time before they make it just as routine as the Eagles. Horrible and unsafe play for both the offense and defense.

[Red Dawg]

Until Jerry Jones gets screwed by this play it won't change.

[Armyofme]

I really wonder if Andy has this play in his back pocket and is waiting to use it in a high stakes moment. No one would have prepared to stop it against us... throw someone thick legged like Bolton in there... defense doesn't know what to make of it until it's too late.

[Valiant]

Should be banned or let the defense do it again. Cant allow just one side to do it.

[Valiant]

How would you differentiate a rule that allows the O-line to push the RB down field but makes the Tush Push illegal? I guess you could outlaw all aiding the runner but I think it's awesome when the fatties are down field pushing the RB. If the Eagles play was so revolutionary and devastating they would've, you know, actually won the Super Bowl. As it is, I believe but feel free to fact check me on this, that a different team won it last season?

same way you cant tackle a qb like you do a rb.

Personally, they also need to make it illegal for offensive players to lead with their helmet to break tackles.

[notorious]

same way you cant tackle a qb like you do a rb.

Personally, they also need to make it illegal for offensive players to lead with their helmet to break tackles.

It is illegal for offensive players to lead with their helmet. Very rare it's called, it did happen last week or the week before.

[crayzkirk]

What happened to forward progress? If the runner needs to be assisted, then isn't that by definition the end of their forward progress? With so many rules favoring the offense, is this really a play that the NFL wants everyone to see? As noted above, I've seen instances where the offensive player is being carried by the offensive players who are 'pushing' them.

[Boxer_Chief]

Those saying just stop it, rules have been put in place for years to stop plays that are unstoppable. I mean why not just let the wide receiver have a 10 yard running start towards the line of scrimmage like in arena football, well, it's because it's unfair. I hate the play and want to see it go away but don't see it happening because we don't do it.

[big nasty kcnut]

Still won the super bowl thou!

[Coochie liquor]

Wish we’d use it, then they’ll make it illegal.

[Hayneplane]

Assisting the runner is an interesting phrase as that could very easily be applied to any form of blocking as that assists the forward progress of the ball carrier by creating open space for them to run into.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't like it because there's an inherent unfairness to it. And it's not this play specifically, but the 'push the ballcarrier' rule in any context.

The reason I say that is because of the Forward Progress rule. If a runner goes forward, gets stood up and the defense rallies and drives the runner backwards, the runner gets the ball at the forwardmost spot.

But if that same runner gets stood up and his OFFENSE rallies and drives him FORWARD, he gets the benefit of that added yardage.

If the idea of a ruby scrum can exist to create added yardage, it should be allowed to exist in a way that takes yardage OFF the board. But it very clearly does not.

It's a one-way rule and that just annoys me.

[jerryaldini]

Couldn't they just say that a player taking the snap from under center can't be assisted? That would address the safety issue and the difficulty of enforcing it on non-sneak plays.

[O.city]

Just continually blast the QB if they run it. Have guys putting helmets into his ribs. Punish the dude for running it.

He's a runner now.

[DJ's left nut]

Couldn't they just say that a player taking the snap from under center can't be assisted? That would address the safety issue and the difficulty of enforcing it on non-sneak plays.

I don't see why ANY ball-carrier should be allowed to be assisted.

[Mecca]

Just continually blast the QB if they run it. Have guys putting helmets into his ribs. Punish the dude for running it.

He's a runner now.

Chris Simms basically said teams should head hunt Jalen Hurts when he does it so now he's being raked over the coals.

[Gravedigger]

As soon as someone's QB gets his leg broken doing this teams will stop.

It would be kinda funny if that QB happened to be Zach Wilson, not wishing injury on him, hope he has a wonderful healthy career whatever's left of it, but just to see the Jets not file a complaint with the league, but the league saying we've got to ban this, but the Jets saying Nah we're good, thanks for having it in place.

[tyecopeland]

They say you can't pull but I've seen that happen too without getting called in a scrum like this.

[LagunaSWana]

I really wonder if Andy has this play in his back pocket and is waiting to use it in a high stakes moment. No one would have prepared to stop it against us... throw someone thick legged like Bolton in there... defense doesn't know what to make of it until it's too late.

My vote is for Leo Chenal to take the snap. Strongest guy on the team, pound for pound.

[FlaChief58]

Sherman sums it up perfectly. If it's illegal on D and special teams because of safety concerns, it should be illegal for the O too.

[fan4ever]

Sherman sums it up perfectly. If it's illegal on D and special teams because of safety concerns, it should be illegal for the O too.

Yeah. How come the D can't push another player higher to block a field goal?

[notorious]

It's illegal to pull, but Gaydirt did it several times Monday night.

[Shields68]

Just continually blast the QB if they run it. Have guys putting helmets into his ribs. Punish the dude for running it.

He's a runner now.

I think they would if they could. But reality is that he is pretty well protected from people wanting to blast him. No one is getting free run at him. The pile is moving forward not back. As many times they have run it if some team figured out how to blast him it would have happened.

[Valiant]

I think they would if they could. But reality is that he is pretty well protected from people wanting to blast him. No one is getting free run at him. The pile is moving forward not back. As many times they have run it if some team figured out how to blast him it would have happened.

The front defensive players need to chop down on the Olineman. Do that enough times, people are getting injured.

[stumppy]

Writing, typing, and/or saying "tush push" should be banned from any and all references to football.

[FlaChief58]

Writing, typing, and/or saying "tush push" should be banned from any and all references to football.

<iframe src="https://gifer.com/embed/9I2i" width=480 height=480.000 frameBorder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://gifer.com">via GIFER</a></p>

[notorious]

Writing, typing, and/or saying "tush push" should be banned from any and all references to football.

That’s what Philly fans call it.

Probably originated from the prison they had in the previous stadium.

[stumppy]

<iframe src="https://gifer.com/embed/9I2i" width=480 height=480.000 frameBorder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://gifer.com">via GIFER</a></p>

LMAO

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It's like a Madden nano blitz. Ruins the game

[Chief Pagan]

Not a fan of the Rugby scrum.