Three Time AFC Player of the Week Available...

[Duck Dog]

If the Chiefs move fast, we can aquire a three time Player of the Week who reportedly has been very underappreciated by his fans.

He is reportedly a team leader and his offensive team mates go out of their way to praise him. Although a pocket passer with a strong arm (and a great deep ball), he has demonstrated pocket awareness and the ability to scramble out of trouble.

Respected around the League, this QB was openly praised (and in some cases sought after) by some of the top Head Coaches in the game: Seifert, Holmgram, Shannahan, etc.

This QB is, of course, Elvis Grbac.

Elvis is just now returning to his '97 pre injury form and we can expect further improvement and performance from him. He could very well end up in the Pro Bowl.

This fan doesn't have a short memory and has a lot of respect for the adversity that Elvis has faced ~ and overcome.

Luz
never gave up on him...

[Warrior5]

Luz, I too, have been behind EG since we signed him over George. I still think that was the right move. There should never have been the controversy with Gannon, because teams just can't pay that much to either one, to sit on the bench. I don't blame Rich for going where the money was, and EG was already locked in. You have to look at the salary cap to see the hit, and the reason CP could not abandon EG. I thought he showed considerable improvement last year, and think he is only bound for even better this year. KC fans should get used to it, because he is the QBOTF, whether they like it or not. He will negotiate a contract probably around 5 years for 30 mil, including his 10 mil bonus, so Chiefs fans had better get used to it. We may have some problems, but EG is not it.

[DoktorSmith]

I am not going to sit here and tell you that I didn't think he was washed up in '97 '98. But I love that man now. It was last season that convinced me, and that game with Indy AND the game with SD prove that he is no longer the pocket passer waiting to get clobbered. In addition to that, with these recievers, we obviosly have a VERY potentially dangerous passing game. This balanced offense thing is fun to watch!!!

[AustinChief]

I never did either, Luz. Unless we go back to our conservitive play calling, Elvis just may make the PB.

------------------
~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

[ansonsdad]

Before we enshrine Elvis into the Hall of Fame, let's see how he performs in the hostile environment of Denver against a very good team.

I am hoping for all the best for my Chiefs, but I don't believe that EG is the answer to our future.

[sd4chiefs]

Me neither, the only thing that has stagnated Elvis has been the uncreative play calling. Let me ask anyone on this board a question. How would you like to be a quarterback in the NFL and only be able to pass the ball on obvious passing plays?(third and long) I would venture to say most of us would not be that successful. I hope Gun and the rest of the coaching staff now realizes that to be a successful team your going to have to open it up. Let's face it a formula of Ball control, strong defense, win the turn over margin, and let your twelfth man play a factor will win you some football games but in today's NFL it will not win a championship. I think the Chiefs of the 90's can attest to that. I hope the Chiefs have turned the corner from being a team that tries to win games by field position, time of possession, and turnovers, to a team that wins games by saying were gonna pass or run and you can't stop us. Just look at what the Ram's did last year that's the format to take.

[G_Man]

He's had one good game against scrub corners, and now he's "overcome" his adversity?

No way.

If he does happen to make the Pro Bowl, it will be no more impressive than when Gannon made it last year.

[G_Man]

Oh yeah, and the team he's supposed to "lead" is 1-2. Just once, I'd like to see Elvis put this team on his shoulders and almost singlehandedly win a big game like Elway used to do on a regular basis.

It's easy to play well when you're beating up on one of the 5 worst teams in league.

[Duck Dog]

Speaking of short memories...

Clint, Elvis has had many good games; regardless of bad play calling, bad catching from receivers, injury, and boos.

That's the point. He finally gets some decent play calling and supporting cast (I still believe he changed many plays in the huddle), and he has a Pro Bowl day ~ just like thoughs of us that have been following him hoped he could.

As far as overcoming adversity, I think it is fair to say that fan's attitudes like yours are part of what he's had tolearn to ignore http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Luz
standing behind his qb...

[wutamess]

Clint,

He overcame hostile environs in his own stadium after a INT returned for a TD, a 10-0 first quarter deficit and threw for 5 TDs in the remaining 3 quarters of the game. What more could he have done?

He'll never be Elway, but surely you can see the improvements............ http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/confused.gif

[G_Man]

Speaking of short memories...

Grbac was the 2nd worst QB in the NFL in '98, and he almost singlehandedly lost at least 4 games in '99 (Chicago, SD, Tampa, Seattle).

It going to take more than one good game for me to believe that Grbac is one of the best QBs in the AFC. Three time player of the week? Great QBs use those awards to prop open doors.

Morris could easily have won the offensive player of the week award.

[DoktorSmith]

...but Clint, do you remember how many balls Gonzo dropped that year????

[Luzap]

Watching from afar, I wanted to see how long it took before we started re-hashing 1998--not long.

While I remain skeptical about KC, mainly because of the coaches, I also dont want to get too loopy about this win.

The guy had a good game and threw the ball. If he 'sucked' like those that do not like EG believe he does, then he would not have performed at even that level.

As far as 'history' goes, 1998--broken clavicle. Look up stats on QB's coming off same injury, like Drew in 1995, if Bledsoe couldnt do it and we ALL know EG is no Bledsoe, then why expect EG to do it.

1999-you can blame SD on EG and maybe Chicago. Seattle and Tampa we were outcoached completely.

It will be good to see if Gun and co, continue to use the offense in the same way, ie, exploiting the defenses openings rather than stubbornly reverting to run-only style. If the do, EG should perform nicely.

[wutamess]

Clint,

He "almost singlehandedly" was the 5th highest rated passer in the AFC in '99 despite those 4 games, only one of which was really his fault (@SD). The other games were lost due to abominable coaching or poor defense. Remember how well Grbac moved the ball in the 2TE set against TB only to have that formation yanked out for some unknown reason (probably to keep the D guessing http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ). The next time he moved the ball worth a damn was at the very end when it was too late, and finally the playcalling was worthwhile.

IMO, defense was the primary reason the Chicago game was lost, coaching and playcalling were to blame for the TB and Seattle losses, and Grbac had a horrible game in San Diego. That much I can handle.

[G_Man]

It's "bad" to rehash '98, but it's OK to bring up a Player of the Week Award he won in '97?

[sd4chiefs]

Oh Clint why don't you and that gal from the other board just go out to Oakland and buy Gannon dinner or something.

[Luzap]

1998 was arguably the TEAMS worst year in many years. Not only had the team completely lost all faith in Marty, the team quit on several occasions. Elvis was no exception.

Even the saviour himself couldnt put this team into the playoffs. I mean, hell, if the saviour couldnt do it, how should anyone expect EG to do it?

[ansonsdad]

With some QB's, you wonder if the QB makes the system or the system makes the QB. IMO, the system will make the QB in EG's case. When we ran a conservative, predictable offense, EG was ineffective, because he does not have the raw talent to carry a team. When we opened the offense up last week and pass to set up the run, it allowed him to expose his strengths to help the team.

Note to the Chiefs: Utilize your QB's strengths. Pass to set up the run. Throw more balls on the slant vs. short out patterns (2 INT's for TD's, not EG's fortay). Keep the opposing Defense guessing with more play action passing, and less obvious first down up Grunny's butt plays. These things will make a slightly above average QB look much better and give EG the ability to keep his team in the game.

[G_Man]

Make love to Elvis, Hank.

Make love to him until he gets that "Duh" look on his face.

[The-Man]

You're right Titus, and after the year was over, Elvis decided he wanted to go to Cleveland to be a backup.

[ansonsdad]

With some QB's, you wonder if the QB makes the system or the system makes the QB. IMO, the system will make the QB in EG's case. When we ran a conservative, predictable offense, EG was ineffective, because he does not have the raw talent to carry a team. When we opened the offense up last week and pass to set up the run, it allowed him to expose his strengths to help the team.

Note to the Chiefs: Utilize your QB's strengths. Pass to set up the run. Throw more balls on the slant vs. short out patterns (2 INT's for TD's, not EG's fortay). Keep the opposing Defense guessing with more play action passing, and less obvious first down up Grunny's butt plays. These things will make a slightly above average QB look much better and give EG the ability to keep his team in the game.

[Stuckinbama]

Just imagine if Elvis had a Stud Running back next to him in the back field? I have always supported Elvis, I get down once in a while but the guy is 30 now, when QBs are in their prime.

Hoover

[Luzap]

Cannibal: I guess that has to mean something to someone--a statement out of context that somehow proves he's a bad qb?

You got me there...I dont know how to respond.

[mikey23545]

It's amazing how a real #1 receiver can instantly make your QB look much better.

[Duck Dog]

ChiTown,

You bring up one of my biggest frustrations with this team.

You mentioned that the 'out' pass was not Elvis's strength (2 INTs for TDs). The truth is just the opposite.

He is known for arm strength, accuracy on the deep ball, and being able to throw the out (the hardest pass in the pros ~ seperates NFL caliber QBs from the wannabees).

The problem has been that we call so few passing plays (and when we do it has almost always been the out or a buttonhook), that opposing D's are waiting for it.

We can argue that Grbac shouldn't have thrown those INTs, but if you watch the tape, the DBs are breaking for the ball AS HE THROWS IT!

These INTs lie square at the feet of the O playcalling.

Luz
eg will go to at least one probowl...<BR>

[One Arrowhead Dave]

Luz-

I saw the same thing. Dumas broke on the ball even as Grbac was throwing it. Raye’s predictability was to blame for that INT, not Grbac’s throw.

Let’s all hope that is water over the dam. Let’s all hope that Raye and Gunther learned their lesson in the last three quarters of the San Diego game and carry that lesson into Mile High.

If not, let’s hope they all get fired.

xoxo~
gaz
could live with either scenario.<BR>

[dtforever]

What a surprise that Luzap is cumming all over himself over a rare good performance by Grbac.

A bad day at Denver will bring everyone back down to earth. I dont care if he threw for 10 touchdowns agains the Chargers. Elvis is a born backup. Make no mistake about that. I remember this same stupid talk about Steve Bono after a good game. All NFL players have good games. The great ones do it week in and week out.

[G_Man]

I'm not going to get into another full-scale Grbac debate because it's pointless, but Grbac's arm strength is a myth. I will never forget the QB Challenge during the spring of '98. Grbac's longest pass in the "long distance" portion of the competition was 60 yards, while almost every other QB was throwing at least 68-70 yards.

He can throw the ball on a frozen rope up to about 20 yards, and after that they become lobs. However, those lobs give WRs plenty of time to get underneath and adjust to the ball, when they're open.

[One Arrowhead Dave]

Maybe it’s my faulty memory [too many brain cells killed via chemical warfare in my youth], but I am having difficulty recalling a QB who was great week in and week out. Help me out, please.

Grbac showed on Sunday what he can do in an Offensive scheme that does not play directly to his weaknesses by consistently putting him in 3rd & long.

In the era when Elway, Marino, Favre, Montana, Young, Bledsoe and Kelly strode the earth, then Grbac was a backup quality QB. In the modern QB-starved NFL, that statement is no longer true. In this era, Grbac is one of the better QBs in the league. When the elite are gone, the lesser lights burn more brightly. Now that the greats are gone [Elway, Marino] or fading away [Bledsoe, Favre], Grbac moves up the curve.

Packfan, you need to adjust your perception to match the current state of affairs.

You know, kind of like Gunther…

xoxo~
gaz
still bemused to find himself defending Grbac.<BR>

[Duck Dog]

Well, well.

Another classy post from Ken (Packfan) http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Clint, you have the right to your opinion, but nobody in the NFL agrees with you.

Luz
hope you don't mind, but i think i'll side with them...

[G_Man]

We still have ZERO evidence that Raye is responsible for any of the mess that is the Chief offense. As more time goes by, it looks more and more like Gunther has a short leash on EG AND JR.

The reason I still question Grbac's ability is that we've seen this before. I'm trying to bite my tongue about him, but when I see posts aimed at "Grbahsers" or praising him to the point of being ridiculous after 1 good game, I can't help myself.

[ansonsdad]

Luz -

I don't know that you can place it all at the OC's feet for the out play. Elvis has to eat a good portion of the INT's he's thrown (it's only been 2, but 2 costly INT's they were). He has a habit of forcing the ball into coverage while trying to make a play vs. simply getting rid of the ball.

I like EG. I think he is a slightly above avg. QB in the NFL. I'm just not ready to crown him the answer to our QB problems.

ChiTown
~still believes the Chiefs QB answer lies in our future draft

[Duck Dog]

Clint,

I 'praise' him (not a term I would use) because I believe in him and because he's turned in the worthy performance (again).

I do understand how you feel because it also drives me nuts when I see someone posting that 'Grbac will NEVER be anything other than an average QB' ~ last Sunday was not the performance of an average QB, but we'll hear this said again and again, I'm sure.

If I'm wrong, time will expose me and my reputation for recognizing talant and grasping football will suffer accordingly. In the meantime, however, I'm going to enjoy rooting for my favorite team as well as the players I like.

Luz
in case i haven't been clear... i like grbac...

[Duck Dog]

ChiTown,

Your criticisms are valid. For whatever reason, I just have higher expectations for his performance.

As I said to Clint, time will tell.

Luz
give moreau the ball...

[Phobia]

Luz,

You are a real tease, LOL. You make some good points though. By the way has Packfan showed up all week? I guess it is no surprise that he would be in hiding.

------------------
Jim Reynolds
Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

[AustinChief]

You can blame our offensive performance, our defensive collapse at Tenn, our 1-2 record, and just about everything else on our pathetic coaches.

You CANNOT blame Elvis' 2 INTs on ANYONE by Grbac.

INT vs. Indy...under pressure, throws a wounded duck (I don't care if he was hit, veteran QBs don't do it!) across the middle?!?! Picked off and returned for a TD.

INT vs. SD...threw 3 or 4 out patterns HIGH and INSIDE. Several plays before it happened you could see SD corners breaking on the ball from 10 yards deep. So what does he do? Throws ANOTHER out pattern (can be blamed on coaches) HIGH AND INSIDE (CANNOT be blamed on coaches).

Grbac played well last week, but consistency is the mark of a great QB...let's see if he can do it again.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
Jimmy Raye for President...anything to get him out of Kansas City
[i]More Moreau</I>

[Phobia]

htis,

Dude with 8 TD passes and only 2 interceptions don't you think you are going a little overboard, that is one of, if not the best ratios in the NFL. The great Kurt Warner has 6 TD and 6 interceptions.

[Chieficus]

Packfan in reply #26: "The great ones do it week in and week out."

Let's look at Favre's 1999 Week-Ins (odd-numbered games)

Opponent, Result, passer rating
Oakland W:28-24 83.0 (nice game)

Minnesota W:23-20 94.4 (Same guys Elvis lit up in December for a 110.6 rating)

Denver L:10-31 9.6 (that is not a typo--9.6 against Denver--7 of 23, 120 yars, 0 TD, 3 INT)

Seattle L:7-27 26.8 (again, not a typo)

Dallas L:12-27 57.1 (gawddamn, is Favre not a great one?)

San Fran W:20-3 106.4 (ah soooo, he gets healthy on the landing crew that is the SF secondary)

Carolina L: 31-33 98.8 (wheelin', dealin' and losin' at Lambeau in a shootout with Beuerlein)

Tampa Bay L: 10-29 55.4 (no shame there, Tampa's a far better team than the Pack)

Week in and week out, people just make up bogus criticisms of the Chiefs.

[wutamess]

DanT,

Good point, but you are just setting yourself up for Packfan's argument that Favre had a bum throwing hand in '99. A detrimental injury no doubt.........but not a good enough excuse for all of those stats. 9.6 QB rating.........I never thought that was possible!

~saving Ken some repetitive motion injury

[Chieficus]

Cormac,

Packfan wouldn't use excuses like that. After all, even the most idiotic GMs know that injuries are part of the game!

Man, here's Favre's Week-Ins for this season:
Jets L:16-20 52.6
Phil W: 6-3 33.5

What the hell's he doing with that arm of his? They should roll out their awesome backup QB if Favre can't perform in the usual up-and-down wildly erratic way that every Packer fan but Ken knows is his norm.

[One Arrowhead Dave]

Is it the injury or is it the lack of Holmgren?

xoxo~
gaz
only his hairdresser knows for sure.<BR>

[wutamess]

Gaz,

IMO, Favre's problems have been plentiful since '98:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> very poor running game - Levens is rarely healthy
<LI> mediocre supporting cast including inconsistent receivers having many dropped passes (the impression I get)
<LI> injuries to his throwing arm/hand
<LI> loss of Chmura to injury....etc.....
<LI> inconsistent coaching and playcalling (Sherm Lewis on his own, without Holmgren calling the plays was terrible from what I have heard).
</UL>
IMO all of the above have probably contributed to poor decision making as a result of him trying to carry the team.

[One Arrowhead Dave]

Cormac-

I do not follow the Pack very closely, but I did note that Favre’s precipitous fall from the ranks of the elite coincided with Holmgren’s departure for Seattle. Could just be coincidence, though.

xoxo~
gaz
not enough of a Packer watcher to tell the difference.<BR>

[wutamess]

Gaz,

I don't pay much attention to them either (as most Packer fans could probably tell from reading what I wrote), but I do have friends that are Packer fans........and that's just the impression I get. I do think Holmgren's (dare I say "promotion" http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) and his injuries are probably the biggest contributors to his demise. He has lapsed back into his old ways of forcing the ball without the mentorship of Holmgren, and with a bad elbow.

[Phobia]

Hmmm bad habit of forcing the ball, who else do I follow at QB that forces the ball on occassion. Does this mean with maturity and the right leadership another strong armed QB could be great. Just food for thought?

[25or6to4]

Not that I consider Grbac a great QB, but I would take him right now over MANY of the QB's in the league. Just look at the sad state of QB's in the NFL. I have been somewhat impressed with Grbac so far this season. The thing that actually excites me is he is actually looking off his receivers now! My biggest criticism of him has always been the way he locks onto one player. He seems to be slowly kicking that habit. Time will tell.


GO CHIEFS!!!!!