What if we drafted Ben Watson in the 1st?

[Ralphy Boy]

First of all, don't say that we don't need another TE, if it was any other TE, I'd agree, but Watson is an exception. The bottom line on us drafting a WR is that we need better receivers than we have. Watson with a 4.46 40 time, may be called a TE, but is just as fast as Reggie Williams, Mike Williams, Michael Clayton & Larry Fitzgerald. The difference is because he can block & weighs 250+, he's called a TE.
The new movement toward 6'3" WR's who are fast & physical is what I'm basing my thoughts on. Watson is just as capable as playing WR as Bo, Morton or Kennison. He just can take a hit better and is harder to match up against for most CB's.

I still prefer Lee Evans, but if he is gone when we draft, we could get a TE who in any other class would likely be the first TE drafted.

Much like Indy uses two TE's a lot, they drafted Dallas Clark even though they had Pollard. Clark had an injury during the season, but it could have just as easily been Pollard who got injured & if they hadn't drafted Clark, they'd have had some serious issues. If Gonzo goes down to injury, Watson would fill that spot.

He's the strongest (34 reps of 225) & fastest (4.46 in the 40) TE coming out, not to mention the smartest. He scored a 41 on the wonderlic and should have no problems picking up the offense.

With all of the motion & shifting we do with Tony, if we had Watson as a weapon to pair with Tony and Dunn, we could destroy opposing defenses and would be unstoppable in the red zone. Like I said, I still prefer Lee Evans in the first, but if he's gone & we drafted Watson, I wouldn't be upset. Nothing is written in stone that says we can't have draft him, call him & pay him as a TE, yet use him a lot as a WR like we do Gonzo. He'd be better than Baber, so we wouldn't have to carry less WR's, but he'd be another option

I saw another thread, that I now can't find, that mentioned us picking a TE in the first and whoever suggested it got pretty toasted for even suggesting it so I imagine the same will hold true here for me.

[Ralphy Boy]

Here is his write up from Sporting News.

BEN WATSON MEASURABLES
Height: 6-3 Weight: 255
40-yard dash: 4.46 10-yard dash: 1.58
20-yard shuttle: 4.11 60-yard shuttle: 11.91
Broad jump: 10-3 225 lb. bench: 34
3-cone drill: 7.38 Vertical jump: 35
Wonderlic: 41 20-yard dash: 2.65




Player evaluation:
Ben Watson
TE, Georgia
War Room analysis
Hands: Has big, strong hands and can make spectacular catches and tough catches in traffic. Catches the ball before it gets into his body. Focus and concentration can be inconsistent. Will drop some passes by trying to get upfield before he secures it. Grade: 7.7

Patterns: Has good size and is a fine athlete with speed and quickness. Can stretch the field vertically. Has yet to reach his potential and is a better athlete than he is route runner. Doesn't have a great feel for soft spots in zones. Must improve his awareness. Grade: 7.4

Run after catch: Is a threat after the catch because of speed and athleticism. Has a second gear in the open field and is tough to bring down once he is at full speed. Slowed by ankle injury in senior season, but when healthy he might be the fastest tight end in this class. Grade: 7.9

Release: Has lined up in the backfield, on the line and as an H-back. Has good initial quickness and burst. Shows good upper-body strength and initial pop. Will rarely get stopped at the line of scrimmage. Grade: 7.9

Blocking: Is tough and physical and has a mean streak. Has a strong upper body. Does a very good job of getting in position and is at his best when chipping down and on the move. Must improve lower-body strength. Is better on the move than he is as an inline blocker. Must improve at blocking with leverage. Struggles at times to sustain blocks. Grade: 7.4

Bottom line: Watson missed three games as a senior with an ankle injury, but finished strong and improved his technique and awareness. He must improve on running routes and become a more consistent receiver, but he works hard and has a lot of upside. Watson is an underrated prospect who could be a steal if he slips to the end of the second round or beginning of the third. He has the tools to develop into a full-time starter and the athleticism to make an immediate impact as a receiver.

[keg in kc]

Really wouldn't be a logical move in my humble opinion. We already have the best/highest paid tight end in the game in Tony Gonzalez, and he's just now hitting his peak. We have one of the games best blocking TEs in Dunn. We have a couple of younger, athletic tight ends in Baber and Mike Pinkard.

If you want to use Indy as an example, what I would think we really need is our own Marvin Harrison, rather than Dallas Clark....

[Ultra Peanut]

I'd be okay with it if we hadn't re-signed Dunn. But now, we really don't have any space for a TE, and Baber's fine for a #3.

As a little bit of trivia about the guy, Ben Watson is apparently a Freddy Adu fan (he was reportedly wearing a DC United jersey at RFK Stadium on Saturday).

[keg in kc]

Touche' on the Harrison/Clark comment, but I don't think that Baber is anything to write home about. He's not fast by any stretch of the imagination & hasn't done anything since he's been here. Granted that could be because of Gonzo, but either way he's active every Sunday & still hasn't done much on Special Teams.The fact that he's active on Sunday is meaningful in and of itself, IMO, because we already carry three TEs (Gonzo, Dunn and Gammon). He must be doing something right. I think he's actually pretty key on the blocking units, but I could be completely mistaken about that.

[Ralphy Boy]

Really wouldn't be a logical move in my humble opinion. We already have the best/highest paid tight end in the game in Tony Gonzalez, and he's just now hitting his peak. We have one of the games best blocking TEs in Dunn. We have a couple of younger, athletic tight ends in Baber and Mike Pinkard.

If you want to use Indy as an example, what I would think we really need is our own Marvin Harrison, rather than Dallas Clark....

Touche' on the Harrison/Clark comment, but I don't think that Baber is anything to write home about. He's not fast by any stretch of the imagination & hasn't done anything since he's been here. Granted that could be because of Gonzo, but either way he's active every Sunday & still hasn't done much on Special Teams.

Calling & paying him as a TE but using him as a WR is also a plus in regards to the cap figure he would occupy.

Also, I do have a bad feeling that Denver would draft him if he's there in the 2nd & I don't want them to get him.

I'd be okay with it if we hadn't re-signed Dunn. But now, we really don't have any space for a TE, and Baber's fine for a #3.

Baber's fine for a #3? What has he done in his 3 seasons here? How has he earned his paycheck?

[Skip Towne]

I'd rather have Tom Watson. He has a much better short game.

[alpha_omega]

I'm with Psicosis on this one. Maybe not a bad idea, but we have both Gonzalez and Dunn.
Baber may suffice for a #3, but he is still unproven.

Still needs to be WR or CB

Interesting insight.

BTW, excellent football thread!

[Ultra Peanut]

Baber's fine for a #3? What has he done in his 3 seasons here? How has he earned his paycheck?What I mean by "Baber's fine as a #3" is that he's been in the system for a few years now and is just as capable as Watson is of watching from the sidelines. Plus side being we don't spend another draft pick on our #3 TE (we should've drafted Mike McMahon instead of BILLY #$@!ING BABER, DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!).

[Ralphy Boy]

What I mean by "Baber's fine as a #3" is that he's been in the system for a few years now and is just as capable as Watson is of watching from the sidelines. Plus side being we don't spend another draft pick on our #3 TE (we should've drafted Mike McMahon instead of BILLY #$@!ING BABER, DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!).

No doubt on the McMahon over Baber, but I think Watson could actually make a contribution to the team. I realize that the Watson pick would be a stretch for us partially because he has limited experience in an offense that just didn't throw the ball that much and because we do need a true #1 WR. Georgia's leading receiver had less than 700 yards. Watson had 324 on 23 catches. We need to get someone who's shown the ability to gain 70+ catches & 1,000 yards and 8 or so TD's and that is the bottom line.

The reason I like him is because of the matchup problems he'd cause. The average starting CB is probably around 6'0" 200 lbs, the average safety 6'1" 210 lbs. How well could they match up against a 6'3" 255 lb TE who's playing WR?

It has been debated quite a bit whether or not a WR would start in this offense this season. I think that a guy like Evans, who would be my first choice over Watson, could start, but many say that no WR we'd draft at 30 would start this year. I'm saying get a very good and fast TE, who is a good receiver, to replace Baber.

Look at TO & Moss, both are 6'3" and they are regarded as the most gifted WR's in the game. TO weighs 226 lbs & isn't as fast as Watson. I'm not saying he's going to be anywhere near as good as them, but their size is what teams are looking for today because of the problems their size creates.

[Ralphy Boy]

I guess we could trade LJ to the Lions for their 2nd round pick #36 overall and get Watson then & Lee Evans in the first!






Oh come on, you know everytime that someone wants a player really bad, they'll suggest trading LJ. They might actually take this one. :p

[RJ]

Sounds like he might be a hell of a player but I wouldn't want him here right now. A more interesting question might be who would? Gotta think he's a guy the Donx would love in the 2nd or 3rd. I think this is a player we'd be more likely to play against twice a year.

[Ralphy Boy]

Sounds like he might be a hell of a player but I wouldn't want him here right now. A more interesting question might be who would? Gotta think he's a guy the Donx would love in the 2nd or 3rd. I think this is a player we'd be more likely to play against twice a year.
That's a big part of the reason I want him, so someone else in our division doesn't get him. At this point, I have to think that SD, Oakland & Denver would all take him in the 2nd if he's there.

I'm adding this here, so as not to look like I'm trying to bump my own post any more than I already have
Sporting News mock draft has the Bills taking Roy Williams in the 1st, Ben Watson in the 2nd and Matt Schaub in the 3rd. That would be a helluva draft for them.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Martz take Watson in the 1st.

[ChiefsCountry]

Rams might take him in the first round.

[Ralphy Boy]

Rams might take him in the first round.
Really, you think so? Did you see my post about an inch above yours that said "I wouldn't be suprised to see Martz take Watson in the 1st."

In case you didn't know, Martz is Mike Martz, the head coach in St Louis.

:D

[ChiefsCountry]

I'm sorry I didnt read the whole post.

[listopencil]

There's an interesting thought-take a guy who is playing at TE and move him to WR. It sounds like it might pan out, but why take the risk? I think you have to go WR in a draft like this. Unless you have two studly guys that are going to be around for the next five to seven years this draft is too deep at the position to pass up. Hey...wait a minute...am I posting on a football thread? Judgement day must be coming. I wonder if Bush or Kerry would draft a TE in the first round? And what if said TE wanted to marry your QB? What then? Drown your troubles in absinthe?

[Rain Man]

I'd rather get Jason Peters in a later round.

[Ebolapox]

you're out of your f*cking mind

-EBOLA-

[Rausch]

I'd rather get Jason Peters in a later round.

I'd rather grab a badger by the scrotum...

[htismaqe]

This would be the worst move we could possibly make...

[Chris Meck]

Well, not the worst, but it doesn't make much sense.

I'm sure this guy IS a tremendous athlete, but he's not likely to be the sort of 'quick twitch' change of direction type of WR that Vermeil likes for this sort of offense. 6'3" and 250 lbs. is bound to take a few strides to hit full speed-it's just bound to.

Now, if we didn't have Gonzales, sure. But with such a deep WR pool this year, I think we'd be better served taking a true WR.

Chris

[htismaqe]

Well, not the worst, but it doesn't make much sense.

I'm sure this guy IS a tremendous athlete, but he's not likely to be the sort of 'quick twitch' change of direction type of WR that Vermeil likes for this sort of offense. 6'3" and 250 lbs. is bound to take a few strides to hit full speed-it's just bound to.

Now, if we didn't have Gonzales, sure. But with such a deep WR pool this year, I think we'd be better served taking a true WR.

Chris

Not too many moves I could think of that are worse...maybe drafting a safety to play CB, or drafting a 215-lb. scatback to play FB.

Not only would we be spending a pick on a player we don't need (a TE) but then we'd be moving him to a position he's not suited for solely because of need (WR)

[Coogs]

That's a big part of the reason I want him, so someone else in our division doesn't get him.

Seems like an odd draft strategy....

[Rain Man]

I'd rather grab a badger by the scrotum...


Well yeah, sure, if you want to spend the rest of your life in badger prison with a badgerophile conviction on your record.

[Ralphy Boy]

Not too many moves I could think of that are worse...maybe drafting a safety to play CB, or drafting a 215-lb. scatback to play FB.

Not only would we be spending a pick on a player we don't need (a TE) but then we'd be moving him to a position he's not suited for solely because of need (WR)


Care to reconsider this?

I thought that given the whole TE in the 2nd thing with Wilson I'd bring this back up.

You gotta give me some credit for suggesting we take a TE early with the intent of not necessarily using him soley as a TE, but shifting him around a little with the key purpose being that he is "another receiving option".

[siberian khatru]

Well, this thread turned out to be kinda spooky.

[tk13]

Care to reconsider this?

I thought that given the whole TE in the 2nd thing with Wilson I'd bring this back up.

You gotta give me some credit for suggesting we take a TE early with the intent of not necessarily using him soley as a TE, but shifting him around a little with the key purpose being that he is "another receiving option".
Oh don't you lie, I've figured you out... YOU'RE CARL PETERSON!!!

[Ralphy Boy]

The reason I like him is because of the matchup problems he'd cause. The average starting CB is probably around 6'0" 200 lbs, the average safety 6'1" 210 lbs. How well could they match up against a 6'3" 255 lb TE who's playing WR?

It has been debated quite a bit whether or not a WR would start in this offense this season. I think that a guy like Evans, who would be my first choice over Watson, could start, but many say that no WR we'd draft at 30 would start this year. I'm saying get a very good and fast TE, who is a good receiver, to replace Baber.

VERMEIL: “He can be in the backfield and go to tight end and we can actually have a third receiver in the game. Now when we go to two tight ends it’s more likely we’re going to run the football.”

Okay, I'm giving myself more credit than I deserve by even posting the above because I was in fact saying that we'd play a TE, who has WR speed, at WR to cause matchup problems and they are saying the guy they got can play anywhere.

Look at the names
Watson
Wilson

you gotta admit it was pretty close, my ESP was off just a little on the name.

[Ralphy Boy]

Seems like an odd draft strategy....

and now he'll be playing for the defending AFC & Superbowl champs. Lovely.

[Amnorix]

and now he'll be playing for the defending AFC & Superbowl champs. Lovely.

Along with a certain VINCE WILFORK!!!


HUA!!!!!

PBJPBJPBJPBJPBJ

[Ralphy Boy]

Along with a certain VINCE WILFORK!!!


HUA!!!!!

PBJPBJPBJPBJPBJ

Bear in mind I've said a few times that Wilfork is the best DT coming out the last few years.

[Ultra Peanut]

Care to reconsider this? Oh, **** you. ROFL

[Ralphy Boy]

Oh, **** you. ROFL
:D

If there isn't room, make it. I really would say that Baber's spot will likely be the one to go. They hopefully are willing to admit that they screwed up in the draft by not getting Kaeding and to think that they can afford to go into the season with only Anderson, is unrealistic. They need to at least add a kickoff specialist, if they aren't willing to replace Anderson.

Too bad that Jeff Chandler signed with Jacksonville. I wonder if they'll cut him now that they drafted Josh Scobee.

[htismaqe]

Care to reconsider this?

I thought that given the whole TE in the 2nd thing with Wilson I'd bring this back up.

You gotta give me some credit for suggesting we take a TE early with the intent of not necessarily using him soley as a TE, but shifting him around a little with the key purpose being that he is "another receiving option".

Wilson in the 2nd wasn't a good pick, IMO.

But the way they are going to use him is LIGHT YEARS different than what Watson would have been capable of.

Drafting Watson would have been far worse than Wilson.

[whoman69]

Wilson in the 2nd wasn't a good pick, IMO.

But the way they are going to use him is LIGHT YEARS different than what Watson would have been capable of.

Drafting Watson would have been far worse than Wilson.
I think the sticking point here is trying to define Wilson as a TE. He will not be in the NFL.

[htismaqe]

I think the sticking point here is trying to define Wilson as a TE. He will not be in the NFL.

Exactly.

Watson is a TRUE TE, and thus would have been a 100%, completely-wasted pick.

Wilson at least has potential to be an H-back/utility man and have some value.

[Ralphy Boy]

Exactly.

Watson is a TRUE TE, and thus would have been a 100%, completely-wasted pick.

Wilson at least has potential to be an H-back/utility man and have some value.

Oh listen to you. You won't give an inch.

[Amnorix]

Wilson at least has potential to be an H-back/utility man and have some value.

There's some talk of the Patriots, who do use an H-back, to use Watson in that role.

Essentially, the thinking in Patriots Nation is that there isn't a helluva lot he CAN'T do, because he's an athletic freak.

Whether his athleticism turns into productivity, we shall see.

[yoswif]

I think Saunders wanted Wilson in the 2nd because he thinks Wilson will be an every down and distance player in Saunders' offense. Getting an every down and distance player for one of the best offenses in the NFL with a late second round pick should represent good value.

[Ralphy Boy]

Getting an every down and distance player for one of the best offenses in the NFL with a late second round pick should represent good value.


"should"

[Phobia]

Getting an every down and distance player for one of the best offenses in the NFL with a late second round pick should represent good value.

I wasn't aware that the guy played RT as well. Impressive. We should have traded up for this versatile player in the 1st.

[Amnorix]

Here's an interesting set of statistics:

Watson (6:03.3, 253 lbs.):

4.44 40-yard dash
535 lb bench press
40 inch vertical jump
41 Wonderlic score

Kellen Winslow (6:04.6, 243 lbs)

4.62 40-yard dash
340 lb bench press
33 inch vertical jump
12 Wonderlic score

[Amnorix]

More crazy-azz stats:

Roy Williams.... 4.48 40, 37.5 inch vertical
Reggie Williams.... 4.62 40, 37.5 inch vertical
Rashaun Woods.... 4.47 40, 39 inch vertical (why did he go so late?)
Ben Watson.... 4.44 40, 40 inch vertical

Tommie Harris.... 470 lb bench, 600 lb squat (4.68 40 btw.... pretty nasty)
Vince Wilfork.... 375 lb bench, 505 lb squat (weakish numbers for our guy)
Vernon Carey.... 480 lb bench, 500 lb squat
Robert Gallery.... 456 lb bench, 620 lb squat
Ben Watson.... 535 lb bench, 570 lb squat


So, basically, he benches and squats more than Wilfork (and benches more than Gallery) while running faster and jumping higher than Roy Williams or Rashaun Woods.

CRAZY!

[Ralphy Boy]

More crazy-azz stats:

Roy Williams.... 4.48 40, 37.5 inch vertical
Reggie Williams.... 4.62 40, 37.5 inch vertical
Rashaun Woods.... 4.47 40, 39 inch vertical (why did he go so late?)
Ben Watson.... 4.44 40, 40 inch vertical

Tommie Harris.... 470 lb bench, 600 lb squat (4.68 40 btw.... pretty nasty)
Vince Wilfork.... 375 lb bench, 505 lb squat (weakish numbers for our guy)
Vernon Carey.... 480 lb bench, 500 lb squat
Robert Gallery.... 456 lb bench, 620 lb squat
Ben Watson.... 535 lb bench, 570 lb squat


So, basically, he benches and squats more than Wilfork (and benches more than Gallery) while running faster and jumping higher than Roy Williams or Rashaun Woods.

CRAZY!

Yeah yeah yeah, he's a freak. Good for you all. As I'm sure you can imagine, I'm real f@$#ing happy about you getting him.

[Amnorix]

Yeah yeah yeah, he's a freak. Good for you all. As I'm sure you can imagine, I'm real f@$#ing happy about you getting him.

Him AND Vince Wilfork, of course. In addition to trading a second for Corey Dillon, of course.

:fire::fire::fire::fire:

[cadmonkey]

More crazy-azz stats:

Roy Williams.... 4.48 40, 37.5 inch vertical
Reggie Williams.... 4.62 40, 37.5 inch vertical
Rashaun Woods.... 4.47 40, 39 inch vertical (why did he go so late?)
Ben Watson.... 4.44 40, 40 inch vertical

Tommie Harris.... 470 lb bench, 600 lb squat (4.68 40 btw.... pretty nasty)
Vince Wilfork.... 375 lb bench, 505 lb squat (weakish numbers for our guy)
Vernon Carey.... 480 lb bench, 500 lb squat
Robert Gallery.... 456 lb bench, 620 lb squat
Ben Watson.... 535 lb bench, 570 lb squat


So, basically, he benches and squats more than Wilfork (and benches more than Gallery) while running faster and jumping higher than Roy Williams or Rashaun Woods.

CRAZY!


PBJ I just got that "I can't wait to bulldoze our way to the playoffs" feeling!!!!

[Ralphy Boy]

Found this article on Fox Sports (http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2357732) regarding the topic.

Notes & thoughts

Both the Chiefs and the Patriots claim they got the second-best tight end in the draft. However, the Pats claim that Georgia's Ben Watson ran a 40-yard dash in 4.46 seconds for them. That time was faster than some wide receivers taken in the first round. The Chiefs, though, will use Kris Wilson as a true H-back.

[Ebolapox]

in retrospect, you got only one part of your post wrong---the body of the post, and the last name of the player drafted in the first round... ben ROTHLISBERGER would've been the correct answer...

-EB-