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View Full Version : I may be the only one, but I like what I see out of the defense.


Coogs
09-03-2004, 07:02 AM
I think our starting defense is vastly improved over last season. In all four games they have forced more three and outs than we have seen in the last 3 years combined.

The run defense is much better. Granted, there have been a couple of long gainers, but most of the carries have been for very short yardage. And ao almost all of the long gainers, some of the subs have been on the field. But, overall, the run defense appears to be much more solid this season.

The pass defense is also way better. Even Bartee is looking like a pretty good CB back there. Could be due to the fact that we are getting pressure up front too, but I have been very happy with the improvement in the pass defense too.

I have to run for now, but I just wanted to put out here that I think we can overcome the injuries on the offensive side of the ball. It appears they may not have to be as good this year, as we actually have what looks to be a defense in place this season.


A thumbs up from Coogs to the 1st string defense this pre-season. :thumb:

NewChief
09-03-2004, 07:07 AM
I think we'll be improved, but it's hard to say how much.

I will say that I definitely prefer watching this defense to GRob's. They are really fun to watch. I just hate seeing us give up those big runs, but I think we'll get that fixed before long.

Redcoats58
09-03-2004, 07:09 AM
I'm gonna make a prediction and say that our D will start to gel by game 5. My only concern is MLB, I believe Mitchell should be back by then though.

KingPriest2
09-03-2004, 07:25 AM
I think our D will be improved. We do have the talent. We played great the first nine games overall last season but fell apart towards the end.

bsp4444
09-03-2004, 07:38 AM
I thought it was substantial that in his first game back, Woods had an interception. Now, how many had Bartee had in 5 years as a Chief?

Mark M
09-03-2004, 07:39 AM
There's been more than just a couple of long runs -- there have been long runs in each and every game so far.

What really worries me are the LBs. Fujita is the only one who looks like he knows what he's doing. The rest have been biting on every move, thus leaving the cutback lanes wide fvcking open. Biesel (twice against the Browns), Key (against everyone), and Jones (on Eddie TD run) have all been horribly out of position. Barber has also been caught and seems to get blocked way too easy.

The two bright spots have been the D-line (they may actually get some pressure without blitzing) and the secondary -- last night, Bartee actually touched a football with something other than the back of his head. Warfield seems to be in the receivers' hip pocket, and Wesley and Woods are as good as ever (Wesley is a stud in run support).

I sincerely hope the LBs do get better as the season progresses, but right now I'm quite, quite concerned.

MM
~~:sulk:

Matt Helm
09-03-2004, 07:40 AM
I don't know what you all think about Beisel, but he seemed to have his helmut in a lot of tackles and jams while he was in. He may not be Maz or even Kawika, but I don't think he is too bad.

Matt Helm
09-03-2004, 07:41 AM
There's been more than just a couple of long runs -- there have been long runs in each and every game so far.

What really worries me are the LBs. Fujita is the only one who looks like he knows what he's doing. The rest have been biting on every move, thus leaving the cutback lanes wide fvcking open. Biesel (twice against the Browns), Key (against everyone), and Jones (on Eddie TD run) have all been horribly out of position. Barber has also been caught and seems to get blocked way too easy.

The two bright spots have been the D-line (they may actually get some pressure without blitzing) and the secondary -- last night, Bartee actually touched a football with something other than the back of his head. Warfield seems to be in the receivers' hip pocket, and Wesley and Woods are as good as ever (Wesley is a stud in run support).

I sincerely hope the LBs do get better as the season progresses, but right now I'm quite, quite concerned.

MM
~~:sulk:

I would add that the long runs didn't always come against the first team.

Mark M
09-03-2004, 07:50 AM
I would add that the long runs didn't always come against the first team.

I would add that at least half of them came when Barber, Sims, Hicks, Fujita, and Biesel were on the field. When you have your starting LBs in there and they are grossly out of position, bite on every move and miss tackles, there are issues.

This defense has a ways to go before they even sniff the top 15.

MM
~~:arrow:

KCTitus
09-03-2004, 07:50 AM
Hope you're right Coogs...

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 08:25 AM
By game 5?

We play Denver, Carolina, and Baltimore in the first 5 weeks...we could be 1-4 by then.

Chiefnj
09-03-2004, 08:33 AM
By game 5?

We play Denver, Carolina, and Baltimore in the first 5 weeks...we could be 1-4 by then.

The only bright spot that I'm holding out hope for in the Carolina game is the fact that they have a revamped OL that might not be gelling. If they had the same line returning I'd chalk the game up as a loss with Davis and Foster pounding the ball.

Chief Henry
09-03-2004, 08:42 AM
I've got the same concerns big time. I'm hoping that Gunther has been holding back since the
STL game !!!

HC_Chief
09-03-2004, 08:43 AM
I also think this D will be radically improved. They're still going to give up a big play or two per game, but they will also <i>make plays</i> in each game. Gone are the days of contain, contain, contain (but give up first down), contain, contain, contain (but give up first down), giv up BIG PLAY for TD.

donkhater
09-03-2004, 08:48 AM
Here's what I see so far:

The defense is stuffing, stuffing, stuffing then a mental lapse allows a runner to break a big one. I think that is going to happen with a new scheme. But the only thing people see is that 5.0+ yard per rush and conclude that the defense isn't fixed.

They would be wrong.

Last season KC gave up big runs, but by the end of the year they were getting gnashed 5 yards per rush.

Not 5 yards per rush on average, but literally 5 yards every time a runner touched the ball. This standard of defense is much more devasting becuase then the opposing offense can dicatate what they want to do on 2nd and short.

Big runs like the other night vs. Cleveland led to one TD and a crappy yards per rush average, but other than that one drive, the Browns were held in check well. They weren't constantly seeing 2nd and short and the defense pinned it's ears back on the passes.

I'll take this defense giving up 7 points in a half any day of the week.

To reiterate I think 10 runs of 5 yards each is much more devastaing than 1 run of 41 yards and 9 of 1 yard. But either way, the same 5.0 yards per rush is shown.

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 09:13 AM
The only bright spot that I'm holding out hope for in the Carolina game is the fact that they have a revamped OL that might not be gelling. If they had the same line returning I'd chalk the game up as a loss with Davis and Foster pounding the ball.

Yeah, they've got some injuries too. They got Bruce Nelson out of Iowa last year and he had a very good rookie year. He's out.

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 09:14 AM
Here's what I see so far:

The defense is stuffing, stuffing, stuffing then a mental lapse allows a runner to break a big one. I think that is going to happen with a new scheme. But the only thing people see is that 5.0+ yard per rush and conclude that the defense isn't fixed.

They would be wrong.

Last season KC gave up big runs, but by the end of the year they were getting gnashed 5 yards per rush.

Not 5 yards per rush on average, but literally 5 yards every time a runner touched the ball. This standard of defense is much more devasting becuase then the opposing offense can dicatate what they want to do on 2nd and short.

Big runs like the other night vs. Cleveland led to one TD and a crappy yards per rush average, but other than that one drive, the Browns were held in check well. They weren't constantly seeing 2nd and short and the defense pinned it's ears back on the passes.

I'll take this defense giving up 7 points in a half any day of the week.

To reiterate I think 10 runs of 5 yards each is much more devastaing than 1 run of 41 yards and 9 of 1 yard. But either way, the same 5.0 yards per rush is shown.

Excellent analysis.

Chiefnj
09-03-2004, 09:18 AM
On a down note (and to show you just how meaningless preseason is) the Chiefs first team defense gave up less points in preseason last year than this years first team.

NewChief
09-03-2004, 09:19 AM
Another thing I like about this D:

They seem to have the killer instinct on those 3rd and long situations. I can't remember how many times in the last few years I watched us get an offense into 3rd and long, just to see the opponents effortlessly shred our defense with a big gain and pick up the 1st down.

I did have a flashback to this once last night as they converted with a long run on a 3rd and long, but I saw us bury and put away people on 3rd down more than I saw them convert.

Yes, we go back into cover 2 in long yardage situations, but the pursuit is there so that the cover 2 works like it's supposed to work. The guy catches the ball short then gets buried within 2-3 yards.

Hoover
09-03-2004, 09:19 AM
I thought it was substantial that in his first game back, Woods had an interception. Now, how many had Bartee had in 5 years as a Chief?
Its not all about INTs. Thats like on looking at Home Runs in baseball.

INTs and Home Runs are great, but there is a lot more to look at.

I too like what I see on defense. Three and outs, good preasure at time. The long runs hurt, but some of that is due to 2nd stringers being in there.

C-Mac
09-03-2004, 10:02 AM
An overall view I see is that the defensive line is pentrating and getting up field. We didnt see that much at all last year. They are shooting the gaps and making it difficult to block them. The d-backs are right now up on the line to jam recievers. There is no doubt in my mind that we will see far more negative runs than posistive runs this season. Gun is done with the generic plays and will be foaming for Denver. If they have a good to fair showing in Denver and come out with a win, it will change the whole outlook for the next 4 games. Mark my word, they could go 5-1 just as easy as they could go 1-5. I'm not worried about the O against anyone, it will be the D that will determine the wins. They need more time to gell, but I see the D handling the task. Gun's D usually gains momentum as the season goes on and I expect this year at the end to be like last years beginning.....


Homer-and out

HolmeZz
09-03-2004, 11:07 AM
Tell me if I'm not adding this up correctly:

First Team Defense Points Allowed:

Vs. NYG - 7
Vs. StL - 0
Vs. Cle - 7
Vs. Dal 10

And the defense played about a half each game, give or take, so added up that equals about two games, for dicussions sake. So in 4 halves of football, we've allowed 24 points. I can take that.

First Team Offense Points Scored:

Vs. NYG - 14
Vs. StL - 17
Vs. Cle - 6
Vs. Dal - 14

I might be off with the offensive point totals because we did start mixing backups and starters.

If I somehow did add everything up correctly, we've about doubled up the team's we've played while our first team is out on the field.

KC Jones
09-03-2004, 11:22 AM
Under GROB there was talk about how his defense was a big risk/reward type thing. That was complete BS, there was no reward just risk and most of the time we were playing back too much. Gun's style IS big risk/reward. He crowds the line and brings people up. A lot of runs are gonna get stuffed short, but a few will break through and get a lot of yards. That's OK IMO because as long as we make people punt more often than not our offense can win the game. I'm ok with someone breaking off the occasional 20-30 yarder as long as we routinely stuff most drives.

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 11:46 AM
Tell me if I'm not adding this up correctly:

First Team Defense Points Allowed:

Vs. NYG - 7
Vs. StL - 0
Vs. Cle - 7
Vs. Dal 10

And the defense played about a half each game, give or take, so added up that equals about two games, for dicussions sake. So in 4 halves of football, we've allowed 24 points. I can take that.

First Team Offense Points Scored:

Vs. NYG - 14
Vs. StL - 17
Vs. Cle - 6
Vs. Dal - 14

I might be off with the offensive point totals because we did start mixing backups and starters.

If I somehow did add everything up correctly, we've about doubled up the team's we've played while our first team is out on the field.

Allowing 24 ppg isn't going to cut it.

We've got to be below 20 IMO...

KC Jones
09-03-2004, 11:50 AM
Allowing 24 ppg isn't going to cut it.

We've got to be below 20 IMO...

That's 24 pts per 4 halves which is 12ppg.

Lzen
09-03-2004, 11:53 AM
I think the defense looks much better than what I saw the last half of the 2003 season. I think they will play well. The only real concern I have is the linebackers. Specifically the inexperience at middle linebacker. For those of you who think we'll be 1-4 to start the season, I think you're crazy. :rolleyes: But whatever, none of us is Nostrodamus.

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 12:02 PM
But whatever, none of us is Nostrodamus.

Bullshit.

:D

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 12:02 PM
That's 24 pts per 4 halves which is 12ppg.

Oops, i was thinking quarters.

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 12:03 PM
That's 24 pts per 4 halves which is 12ppg.

BTW, if allow 12 ppg, we'll be one of the best defenses ever.

Mark M
09-03-2004, 12:11 PM
BTW, if allow 12 ppg, we'll be one of the best defenses ever.
If the defense allows 12 ppg, the Chiefs will be undefeated.

Ain't no way that happens, but it's a nice little dream.

MM
~~:grovel:

HolmeZz
09-03-2004, 01:18 PM
No one's saying we're going to hold anyone to 12 points a game, but our first team D has shown an ability to cut down on points allowed, which is the ,ost important defensive stat, IMO.

I don't care how many yards we give up. Yards don't win games. Points do.

htismaqe
09-03-2004, 01:28 PM
No one's saying we're going to hold anyone to 12 points a game, but our first team D has shown an ability to cut down on points allowed, which is the ,ost important defensive stat, IMO.

I don't care how many yards we give up. Yards don't win games. Points do.

Last year's defense gave up LESS points in the preseason.

Mark M
09-03-2004, 01:33 PM
No one's saying we're going to hold anyone to 12 points a game, but our first team D has shown an ability to cut down on points allowed, which is the ,ost important defensive stat, IMO.

I don't care how many yards we give up. Yards don't win games. Points do.

I couldn't agree more. Yards per game is the most abused stat in the history of the NFL ... both on offense and defense.

MM
~~:arrow:

Baby Lee
09-03-2004, 01:37 PM
whatever, none of us is Nostrodamus.
You know, Quasimodo predicted all of this.

HolmeZz
09-03-2004, 01:39 PM
I counted 36 points given up in the first half of preseason games last year, which equates to 14.4 PPG.

But even with stats aside, I've been more impressed this year than I have in a long time with the D. Obviously it's the preseason, but I do like what I see.

Luzap
09-03-2004, 02:02 PM
All I care about are 3 and outs.

Even if we give up a lot of big plays, if we dramatically increase the number of times per game that our Offense gets the ball, we'll win far more than we lose.

Luz
count our 3 and outs as well as time of possesion during our first 4 games ~ that will tell the tale...

Coogs
09-13-2004, 06:17 AM
God was I ever wrong...... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Matt Helm
09-13-2004, 06:37 AM
God was I ever wrong...... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Only partially. There were a few (FEW) good things on defense. I'm more worried about the lack of wide receivers. When Bailey intercepted the ball, Kennison was standing flat footed waving to Green to throw to TG. If he would have moved (at any speed) towards the middle Trent would have had two targets and Bailey would not have been standing and waiting.

Where was Richard Smith?

kc rush
09-13-2004, 08:26 AM
At least it looked like they were hitting hard.

It sucks that they continue to bite on the same plays over and over. Its not like the donx did anything new out there.

Gaz
09-13-2004, 08:48 AM
There were some good things on D:
• Penetration by the DL. They did not get to the QB enough, but, to be fair, I would not consider it enough unless they CRUSHED the QB on every play.
• Run Defense. We gave up some long runs when we over-pursued, but the straight-up run D was much improved over last season.

Unfortunately, there were more bad things on D:
• Awful, AWFUL tackling.
• Over-pursuit to the point of being out of control.
• Bit on the bootleg WAY too many times.
• Zone D. To be fair [again], it may have been because McCleon was rusty, but it was a bad idea.

The Defense will get better. Frankly, I am far more concerned about the Offense last night. The playcalling looked like pre-season to me. Our WRs could not get open and Green looked bad. Whether that is cause/effect or two independent variables is yet to be determined. Much like the Chargers of last season, our Offense was entirely the RB. That is going to get Holmes killed.

The Defense should get better. The Offense MUST get better.

xoxo~
Gaz
More concerned about the other side of the ball.

KC Jones
09-13-2004, 09:15 AM
1) I thought there was a lot more pressure on the QB last night than in the 3 previous years. I look forward to seeing what happens to a less mobile QB in a non-bootleg oriented system. Plummer was rarely allowed to stand in the pocket.

2) There was a little more intensity and hard hitting going on last night than in previous years. Last night I saw more attempts at punishing hits than at arm tackles, and I prefer the change. It's true there was some overpursuit and the agressiveness was used against us, but I can live with a little bit of that if they can stuff the run and beat up the QB on most plays.

38yrsfan
09-13-2004, 09:17 AM
It was a disappointing ending but the game was entertaining. There were a few low points; the announcers, the officiating inequities and the cheap shots but like most I think the defense did show significant improvement. The 3rd quarter rally was especially pleasing to watch. The December game should most definitely have a different outcome. On a side note, I'm really tired of Shanahan's whining, the breaks they get already are unbelieveable.