Gunther

[jspchief]

In a post game interview, it was clear that Gunther is starting to realize the mountain he's faced with climbing.

He talked about how they practiced the plays Carolina ran all week, and practiced the exact short pass play that Denver and Carolina both scored on. But the guys just keep making the same mistakes. He also threw McCleon under the bus...keep your eye out for Bartee in the starting line-up soon. Talked about how poorly our secondary played (#44 being the one bright spot). Also mentioned the shitfull tackling.

It's obvious that our guys in the defensive backfield suck. Barber is non-existent. Mitchell and Beisel both over-commit on every misdirection play. Our safeties are soft, and can't hit or tackle. McCleon is not suited to be a starter at this point.

The tackling is f*cking brutal. How hard is it to teach these guys to wrap up? Why do we never lay good hits? Why does our entire secondary stand and watch when we get the QB in trouble? This defense isn't getting better. Until we can cover downfield, all the QB pressure in the world won't save us (as Delhomme demonstrated).

I was wrong. It's not the scheme. It's the players.

[Deberg_1990]

Yep..you are right...Ill bet Gunther feels like choking DV right about now for letting him talk himself into coming back to fix this crappy Defense.

[dirk digler]

In a post game interview, it was clear that Gunther is starting to realize the mountain he's faced with climbing.

He talked about how they practiced the plays Carolina ran all week, and practiced the exact short pass play that Denver and Carolina both scored on. But the guys just keep making the same mistakes. He also threw McCleon under the bus...keep your eye out for Bartee in the starting line-up soon. Talked about how poorly our secondary played (#44 being the one bright spot). Also mentioned the shitfull tackling.

It's obvious that our guys in the defensive backfield suck. Barber is non-existent. Mitchell and Beisel both over-commit on every misdirection play. Our safeties are soft, and can't hit or tackle. McCleon is not suited to be a starter at this point.

The tackling is f*cking brutal. How hard is it to teach these guys to wrap up? Why do we never lay good hits? Why does our entire secondary stand and watch when we get the QB in trouble? This defense isn't getting better. Until we can cover downfield, all the QB pressure in the world won't save us (as Delhomme demonstrated).

I was wrong. It's not the scheme. It's the players.

Thanks for the info jsp! I was curious of what Gun thought about what the D did today. He needs to start benching players that aren't performing. That is the only way to get their attention IMO.

[jspchief]

Thanks for the info jsp! I was curious of what Gun thought about what the D did today. He needs to start benching players that aren't performing. That is the only way to get their attention IMO.

He didn't name any names, but by reference to certain plays, he basically called certain players out. I'm not sure how I feel about him blasting them in public, but something has to light a fire under these guys asses.

[Rain Man]

I would hope that he wouldn't bench McCleon for one bad game. Who on the bench is better?

[dirk digler]

He didn't name any names, but by reference to certain plays, he basically called certain players out. I'm not sure how I feel about him blasting them in public, but something has to light a fire under these guys asses.

I agree but by benching them it sends a message that if you don't perform your sitting. Alot of these guys have bonuses on how many plays they play during the season which may inspire them to play hard or don't get the extra cash.

[dirk digler]

I would hope that he wouldn't bench McCleon for one bad game. Who on the bench is better?


I hate to say it but probably Bartee. IMO McCleon is favoring his shoulder which he injured in the preseason and he just isn't being physical in the run game like Gun expects out of his corners. If he can't tackle he shouldn't play.

[royr17]

I would hope that he wouldn't bench McCleon for one bad game. Who on the bench is better?

William Bartee ... :p

[teedubya]

Gun is gonna get about 15 minutes of sleep a night now.

[jspchief]

I would hope that he wouldn't bench McCleon for one bad game. Who on the bench is better?

McCleon has played like shit in both games. He can't tackle to save his ass, and whatever coverage skills he had last year have disappeared (as evidenced by the Colbert TD). He may still be slightly better than Bartee against the pass, but he's a complete liability against the run.

Personally, I'm ready to see some new faces in the spots that we are sucking at. I didn't see much of Pile, but at least I didn't see him blowing plays.

[Deberg_1990]

I agree but by benching them it sends a message that if you don't perform your sitting. Alot of these guys have bonuses on how many plays they play during the season which may inspire them to play hard or don't get the extra cash.


I really dont think its gonna matter...I think these guys are playing hard and trying their best...they just dont have the talent to match up sorry to say......Not much u can do to fix that.

[Braincase]

Bring back the glasses....

http://www.usoutdoorstore.com/istarimages/p/p-081322!878.jpg

[the Talking Can]

It is the players.

I hope Gun benches some people: Holliday/Sims/McCleon etc.

You have try something to get through their thick skulls.

[Deberg_1990]

It is the players.

I hope Gun benches some people: Holliday/Sims/McCleon etc.

You have try something to get through their thick skulls.

Id be happy if they benched Hicks, Sims, Holliday, Barber, McCleon, and Woods....aint gonna happen.....but its a nice thought

[Rain Man]

McCleon has played like shit in both games. He can't tackle to save his ass, and whatever coverage skills he had last year have disappeared (as evidenced by the Colbert TD). He may still be slightly better than Bartee against the pass, but he's a complete liability against the run.

Personally, I'm ready to see some new faces in the spots that we are sucking at. I didn't see much of Pile, but at least I didn't see him blowing plays.

I would agree that McCleon didn't have a good week this week, but I thought he played pretty well last week. And while he got run over on some plays, at least he was in position to make them.

[Deberg_1990]

Whats sad is......I have a bad feeling Gunther is gonna be mad a scapegoat when the season is over. Carl and DV figured that they couldnt go wrong with bringing him in. If he worked wonders and turned the D around they look brilliant for hiring him back. If the D collapses and doesnt change then they can blame it all on him instead of themselves for their own bad decisions in the draft and free agency...

I think Whitlock wrote a column about this a few months back..?

[dirk digler]

I really dont think its gonna matter...I think these guys are playing hard and trying their best...they just dont have the talent to match up sorry to say......Not much u can do to fix that.


Probably not and as I said during the offseason along with replacing Grob they needed to replace the defensive talent as well. All you had to do was to look back at the 2000 Rams when they replaced all of their defensive staff, some which are with the Chiefs now, and they started 7 new defensive starters and they went to the Super Bowl in large part to their new D. This isn't rocket science yet CP and DV seem clueless.

[Deberg_1990]

Probably not and as I said during the offseason along with replacing Grob they needed to replace the defensive talent as well. All you had to do was to look back at the 2000 Rams when they replaced all of their defensive staff, some which are with the Chiefs now, and they started 7 new defensive starters and they went to the Super Bowl in large part to their new D. This isn't rocket science yet CP and DV seem clueless.


Yep..good example...that 2000 Rams defense was horrible! But they didnt stand pat and bring back the same damn players!! They fired all the deadwewight including coaches and players! brought in some fresh blood...But No..we couldnt do that....because that would mean that Carl and DV were wrong about Morton, Sims, McCleon, Bartee, Hicks, Barber etc.....

[dirk digler]

Whats sad is......I have a bad feeling Gunther is gonna be mad a scapegoat when the season is over. Carl and DV figured that they couldnt go wrong with bringing him in. If he worked wonders and turned the D around they look brilliant for hiring him back. If the D collapses and doesnt change then they can blame it all on him instead of themselves for their own bad decisions in the draft and free agency...

I think Whitlock wrote a column about this a few months back..?

But would anybody believe CP and DV if they tried that? Most fans and players aren't that stupid.

[headsnap]

deprogramming three years of Robinson's schemes doesn't happen overnight.

I agree though, if some of the players aren't getting it done on the field, bench their azzes, maybe that will get the point through...




or they could try shock therapy...

[dirk digler]

Yep..good example...that 2000 Rams defense was horrible! But they didnt stand pat and bring back the same damn players!! They fired all the deadwewight including coaches and players! brought in some fresh blood...But No..we couldnt do that....because that would mean that Carl and DV were wrong about Morton, Sims, McCleon, Bartee, Hicks, Barber etc.....

And the funny part is that some of their coaches, Peter Guinta and Carl Hairston, are now part of our staff. I hate Martz as a coach but hell he even saw that these coaches suck.

[dirk digler]

deprogramming three years of Robinson's schemes doesn't happen overnight.

I agree though, if some of the players aren't getting it done on the field, bench their azzes, maybe that will get the point through...




or they could try shock therapy...

What bothers me is when Gun says they practiced the exact same plays that Carolina scored on all week long and yet they still couldn't stop them. That is pathetic.

[Spott]

Somewhere, GROB is laughing his ass off right now.

[tommykat]

I don't believe Gunn will be made at DV at all!! DV went to Gunn to ask for help, I believe Gunn knew what he was coming into!

Sims needs to loose some weight HUGE time! Not going to ramble.......It is only game 2 and The CHIEFS have what it takes to make it............Do you all rememeber the schedule they are playing this year????? Not like last year. Look at what Warfield is doing and did today! Others that played under Gunn know the system, give them time...

FOOOOOOOO CHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

[Deberg_1990]

And the funny part is that some of their coaches, Peter Guinta and Carl Hairston, are now part of our staff. I hate Martz as a coach but hell he even saw that these coaches suck.

yep, now granted..im sure DV would defend them and say..they were party of my Super Bowl staff....but that 1999 Rams D wasnt really that great either....that team had a super easy schedule that year that benifited them greatly......thier division the NFC West was horrible that year.....

[Sure-Oz]

The talent isn't there on the DLINE at all, we have no pass rusher. Eric Hicks is the softest guy out there. The corners aren't too bad but we never got any pressure and when we did it was too late. The LB's are horrible. I just hope we can manage to get better, but next year which may be our last year, things need to be changed with our talent on defense and WR. I am sick of seeing priests games go to waste.

[dirk digler]

yep, now granted..im sure DV would defend them and say..they were party of my Super Bowl staff....but that 1999 Rams D wasnt really that great either....that team had a super easy schedule that year that benifited them greatly......thier division the NFC West was horrible that year.....

Yep that's why last year was the year. Very easy schedule just like the 99 Rams. We wasted it with a shitty ass D. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[headsnap]

What bothers me is when Gun says they practiced the exact same plays that Carolina scored on all week long and yet they still couldn't stop them. That is pathetic.
that's what I mean by 'deprogramming.' these players heads are full of knobinson's sh!t that's been pounded into them over the last few years, when they get into the heat of battle, they revert.

It'll take time, but the D will improve.

with that being said, the rooks should get more PT.




Donut Dalton is untainted by G-Rob... ;)

[Coogs]

We were next to last in rushing defense after week one. We gave up 202 yards to the Broncos. Only the Bengals gave up more, to the Jets, with 219 last week. Since the Bengals play the fish tonight, I think it is safe to say we will be last in rushing defense after week #2.

So much for "taking away thier heart".

[jspchief]

"Deprogramming" huh? is that the latest spin over at the Peterson household?

This isn't learning/unlearning scheme, or technique, or attitude. This is lacking the basic skill set that allows you to get to the ball.

Grob didn't "program" them to tackle poorly or over-commit on misdirection. He didn't "program" them to repeat the same mistakes on identical plays after a week's worth of practicing it.

[dirk digler]

that's what I mean by 'deprogramming.' these players heads are full of knobinson's sh!t that's been pounded into them over the last few years, when they get into the heat of battle, they revert.

It'll take time, but the D will improve.

with that being said, the rooks should get more PT.




Donut Dalton is untainted by G-Rob... ;)

Sorry snap, I disagree. Most teams who replace their D-Coordinator make significant improvement in their first year. With that being said we are only in game 2 of 16 so we still have time but we are in a big hole. I think the D will improve but not by much because we obviously lack talent which no scheme can hide IMO.

[dirk digler]

"Deprogramming" huh? is that the latest spin over at the Peterson household?

This isn't learning/unlearning scheme, or technique, or attitude. This is lacking the basic skill set that allows you to get to the ball.

Grob didn't "program" them to tackle poorly or over-commit on misdirection. He didn't "program" them to repeat the same mistakes on identical plays after a week's worth of practicing it.


:thumb: This is what Maas was saying after the Indy game last year with their built in excuses. This maybe their new excuse at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

[headsnap]

Sorry snap, I disagree. Most teams who replace their D-Coordinator make significant improvement in their first year. With that being said we are only in game 2 of 16 so we still have time but we are in a big hole. I think the D will improve but not by much because we obviously lack talent which no scheme can hide IMO.
I'm not saying that the D will be world beaters, and I'm not even saying that we have good talent. All I'm saying is that, IMHO, it will improve, the habits learned under G-Rob will not disappear overnight.

[headsnap]

truth be known, I'm more concerned about the offense right now. :shake:

[Coogs]

truth be known, I'm more concerned about the offense right now. :shake:

That is a pretty scary thought too, since we are last in the league in rushing defense and scoring defense after 2 weeks.


BTW headsnap, I am getting darn close to agreeing with you too. The offense is looking old and slow to me, except for Priest of corse.

[Sure-Oz]

They aren't using priest enough, and our WR's suck. Gonzo isn't full strength either, we need help, but it isn't coming this year.

[dirk digler]

truth be known, I'm more concerned about the offense right now. :shake:


Me too. I knew the D would be a work in progress but I expected our offense to be the same or better. I am really worried about our WR's right now. They may be the worst in the NFL.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I think it's the players as well.

Name me one player on our defense that an opposing offensive coordinator has to watch out for and game plan against? That's right...none. We need better talent or a miracle.

[FringeNC]

truth be known, I'm more concerned about the offense right now. :shake:

Yeah, me too. The passing game is a disaster. Did Terry Shea really mean that much to Green?

[Coach]

Yeah, me too. The passing game is a disaster. Did Terry Shea really mean that much to Green?

Boy... one had to wonder....

[Hel'n]

Id be happy if they benched Hicks, Sims, Holliday, Barber, McCleon, and Woods....aint gonna happen.....but its a nice thought

Perhaps the offense can play defense?

[go bo]

Quote: <HR SIZE=1>Originally Posted by FringeNC
Yeah, me too. The passing game is a disaster. Did Terry Shea really mean that much to Green? <HR SIZE=1>
Boy... one had to wonder....doesn't green get into trouble when he's trying way too hard to make something happen when things aren't working very well?

even tho green might not have had one of his better days, i think the poor play of most of the rest of the offense made him look worse than he really was...


oh yeah, the play of carolina's defense just might have affected the overall poor play of the offense... :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

[whoman69]

We replaced 5 starters last year and still couldn't stop the run. What didn't make sense to me this year was to just resign our own players because they would be cheaper and because of some sort of continuity. We have continuity alright, they still are bad. But I have to look at guys like Sims and Fujita and the only thing they have known is Robinson. Its almost like we went to camp with a bunch of rookies. I still believe its the scheme, that too many can't get their heads out and figure where they are supposed to be in this scheme. We are also held back by the fact that Beisel gets pushed out of position on so many plays. Gun's D is really hampered by the fact we don't have a competent MLB. This is a really bad time to be learning a new position.

[digi2fish]

don't blame on the D, they scored equally to the O today.
:banghead:

[Calcountry]

Yep..you are right...Ill bet Gunther feels like choking DV right about now for letting him talk himself into coming back to fix this crappy Defense.
Who won't let them improve the shitty players?

Was that DV, GROB or Gunther? HMMMM :shake: FU Carl.

:cuss:

[Calcountry]

I would hope that he wouldn't bench McCleon for one bad game. Who on the bench is better?
The bench.

[Calcountry]

Gun is gonna get about 15 minutes of sleep a night now.
Even after the INT, he lookes as nervous as a guy could.

[Calcountry]

Somewhere, GROB is laughing his ass off right now.
Yeah, I was laughing my ass off on that one play where Foster ran to the left, and who was it, rather than try to tackle him he turned his back to him.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I hope the Chiefs bench McCleon in favor of McKenzie of the Packers. :D

[Chan93lx50]

I hope the Chiefs bench McCleon in favor of McKenzie of the Packers. :D

Not sure if Green Bay signed a new contract or not, but McKenzie played for Green Bay today

[TEX]

I would agree that McCleon didn't have a good week this week, but I thought he played pretty well last week. And while he got run over on some plays, at least he was in position to make them.

I think Dexter's shoulder is bothering him more than he's leading everyone to believe. It's obvious something is wrog. Time to switch with Bartee IMO.

[Chan93lx50]

I can't believe we are calling for Burntee to start! What has this team came too!

What the hell make old stiff neck earn his pay!

[Frazod]

Well, that festering turd we laid is leading off SportsCenter.... :banghead:

[Hammock Parties]

Bartee has actually played pretty well so far this year. I haven't seen him getting smoked down the field. I have no problems with him starting.

[splatbass]

The talent isn't there on the DLINE at all, we have no pass rusher.


You must have watched a different game than me. We had a good pass rush all day, and Delhomme was hit a bunch of times. The problem was our secondary didn't show up, which gave Delhomme the opportunity to make a play even with the pass rush.

[TEX]

You must have watched a different game than me. We had a good pass rush all day, and Delhomme was hit a bunch of times. The problem was our secondary didn't show up, which gave Delhomme the opportunity to make a play even with the pass rush.

Actually, I thought the LB's played worse than our secondary, if you can believe it. IMO, we have only 1 LB with above average talent and that's Fuj - 1 LB with average talent who makes below averge playes many times and that's Barber - the rest are below average who would not be considered solid depth on most rosters. Just my take...

[Smileyjack41]

The offense played terrible. It is hard for the Defense to play good if the offense is sucking a** :cuss:
If the offense has another bad showing at Texas heads should roll hopefully CeePee

[DaWolf]

So let's see, while we lowly fans have been saying for a few YEARS now that we need to go out and find us a real cornerback and some real linebackers and a real pass rusher and a run stopper in the middle, it takes a coach who is gitting paid over a million a year an entire offseason, an entire preseason, and two games into the season to figure it out? And this is the guy who is supposed to turn around our defense?

This is why Gunther sucked as a head coach. He has no sense of evaluation. And DV, God bless his kind soul, but he thinks everyone is the greatest football player in the world. SCREW THAT! AND SCREW YOU CARL PETERSON FOR SITTING ON YOUR FAT ASS ALL OFFSEASON WHILE EVERYONE ELSE GOT BETTER. We are getting what we deserve now. Actually we fans deserve much better. But the freaking people running this team are just getting their asses handed to them for being lazy in the offseason...

[Fairplay]

So let's see, while we lowly fans have been saying for a few YEARS now that we need to go out and find us a real cornerback and some real linebackers and a real pass rusher and a run stopper in the middle, it takes a coach who is gitting paid over a million a year an entire offseason, an entire preseason, and two games into the season to figure it out? And this is the guy who is supposed to turn around our defense?

This is why Gunther sucked as a head coach. He has no sense of evaluation. And DV, God bless his kind soul, but he thinks everyone is the greatest football player in the world. SCREW THAT! AND SCREW YOU CARL PETERSON FOR SITTING ON YOUR FAT ASS ALL OFFSEASON WHILE EVERYONE ELSE GOT BETTER. We are getting what we deserve now. Actually we fans deserve much better. But the freaking people running this team are just getting their asses handed to them for being lazy in the offseason...





ROFL :clap: Tell it like it is bro!

[tk13]

Honestly, I just don't know anymore. We aren't ever going to do anything right. We sign FA's with solid track records... Morton, Barber, Holliday... they don't live up to the billing. Nobody likes them. Draft picks, they don't work. I mean look at all these teams that draft well and create a good defense... look at those Panthers today, they drafted pretty much that entire starting defense. Look at the teams that stand pat... look at Indy, they did less than the Chiefs did, they don't have a problem with it. They might be 2-0 with wins on the road at Tennessee and New England if they don't turn the ball over on offense in the red zone against NE more than once. They actually lost three starters, and they plug young draft picks in and get it to work. They lose Mike Peterson, Marcus Washington, Bratzke, Walt Harris over the years... it doesn't matter, they find new guys to get it done. They obviously aren't a great defense, but they play good enough and often are at least clutch enough to make a big play. In the playoff game last year one of the big key plays might have been Priest's fumble. And then today, the Titans were about to take the lead and Nick Harper makes a great INT. Maybe that's why I don't buy into all the "gotta have FA's to succeed" hype... I can sit here and watch a team that's doing nothing but bankrupting itself into the ground to keep a couple star players continue to draft well and improve with good coaching. It can be done...

[HolmeZz]

don't blame on the D, they scored equally to the O today.
:banghead:

That's not a good outlook on it when you take into consideration that our offense took on one of the best D's in the league, while our defense couldn't handle an offense that's below average, even WITH their best receiver and running back. No question our offense hasn't been what it can be though, and they'll need to step it up if this team has any real aspirations of winning a ring this season.

As for this topic, it's clearly the players and not the scheme. I do happen to think GRob's a dumbass and that his scheme wouldn't have worked well even with average-to-above average players, but when you can't make tackles then the scheme matters very little.

I think our inability to tackle is just a side effect of being way too slow on defense. When you can't get to gaps quick enough to slow down blocking schemes, you're leaving yourself vulnerable. I think that's one reason why read-and-react didn't work last year. You're spending too much time reading and not reacting, to put it simply.

I think I saw a few bright spots from our D today though. There were a handful of times that we took down Foster for losses. On their first couple of possessions Foster would run for like 5 on first, and then lose 2 or 3 on second down. That works for me. It just seems like on 3rd down we just have to cross our fingers and hope a receiver drops a pass. Until we can get rid of that type of mindset, I don't have huge expectations for the team this year.

I'm happy with the play of Dalton and Warfield though, to take a positive outlook on the game.

[Hammock Parties]

We're only two games into the season.

The defense DID make a lot of plays last year to get us to 13-3, remember?

[Coach]

We're only two games into the season.

The defense DID make a lot of plays last year to get us to 13-3, remember?

And our Defense is making the play (Ex. Warfield INT's)

The problem is the offense. I mean, somebody please post how many 3rd down conversions the Offense had? While you're at it, please post the TOP.

[Hammock Parties]

And our Defense is making the play (Ex. Warfield INT's)

The problem is the offense. I mean, somebody please post how many 3rd down conversions the Offense had? While you're at it, please post the TOP.

TOP was about even in Denver.

We lost TOP by ELEVEN MINUTES against the Panthers.

:shake:

3rd down conversions we are 7 for 25 on the season. Abysmal.

[The Bad Guy]

I love it when people say "they have to deprogram themselves from GRob".

The guy left here in January. It's September. If this defense didn't get motivated by blowing a SB chance and embracing this new scheme then they need to go.

It's not like GROB was their coordinator their whole lives. He was here 3 years, and he's been gone for the last 8 months.

8 months is more than enough time to get a shitty coordinator out of your system.

[The Bad Guy]

And our Defense is making the play (Ex. Warfield INT's)

The problem is the offense. I mean, somebody please post how many 3rd down conversions the Offense had? While you're at it, please post the TOP.

The offense should shoulder the blame, but the defense still has to accept some of it as well.

Giving up over 320 yards to DeShaun Foster and Quentin Griffin is friggen unacceptable.