Bad evaluation or bad positional coaching?

[Chiefnj]

There has been a lot of talk lately how, in recent years, the Chiefs have had a dismal performance drafting defensive players. Downing, Sims, Freeman, Battle, etc., the names don't seem to end.

Sims was a highly regarded draft pick. The Vikings also wanted him and thought of him as the #1 DT on the board. Freeman wasn't considered a reach and the "experts" generally agreed that he was a decent 2nd round pick.

Could it be that the Chiefs positional coaches just can't coach? Is it the case that these could have been good players had they been in the proper system and had better coaching?

[Mr. Laz]

i think someone around here was complaining about the secondary positional coach when they were first hired.


i still think that when you change Coordinators, you should change most of your positional coaches.


but... just like when gunther was hired as Head Coach, he didn't get to pick his own coaches then either.

[David.]

I always thought the picks were good, and we were ruining them. But that could be way off base. As a rule I generally don't know what I'm talking about.

[Brock]

If Gunther wasn't allowed to pick his own underlings, that's just stupid.

[shaneo69]

I don't know...Karmelowicz came here in '97 and turned Dan Williams into a franchise player/holdout. I remember Joel Buchsbaum raving about how he turned Rich Owens into a stud pass rusher in '96 with the Redskins.....then Owens came here and did nothing. Carl Hairston, the asst. DL coach was the one and only DL coach for Marty a couple years, so these guys apparently are well thought-of in some circles. I think Karmelowicz got a lot of credit for turning undrafted Eric Hicks into a productive starter and Tom Barndt into a starting NT, but in the NFL, it's "what have you done lately."

[jspchief]

I remember reading pre-draft reports that said some people believed that Sims was a better lineman than Peppers...that Peppers accomplished what he did because of Sims. Not saying I believe it, but it was one opinion at the time. He certainly wasn't a reach.

I don't know what to think about Sims, maybe he's just a bust. What I do know is that KC seems to have at least one pick per draft that is labeled a reach by the "experts". I don't know how long Stiles has been with KC, but I'm beginning to think that our personnel guys just don't know what they're doing. It just feels like we have more busts and less sleepers than just about any other team in the NFL.

I know CP, DV, and Stiles kind of have their good 'ol boy thing going from their UCLA days. In the past I thought I saw a disproportional number of Pac 10 players being drafted by us. Maybe I'm just seeing black helicopters, but I wonder if it's not time to shake up the old gang.

[cdcox]

I don't know. I always contended that Blackledge could have been a good QB with better coaching. Barber was regarded as a good LB, now all of the sudden he comes to KC and can't tackle.

[shaneo69]

If Gunther wasn't allowed to pick his own underlings, that's just stupid.


I think if Gunther had his way, Chuck Cecil would be coaching DB's instead of Peter Giunta.

But Vermiel wasn't going to fire his Super Bowl winning co-defensive coordinator.

[nmt1]

I don't know. I always contended that Blackledge could have been a good QB with better coaching. Barber was regarded as a good LB, now all of the sudden he comes to KC and can't tackle.

I'll never forgive Carl for drafting Blackledge.

[shaneo69]

Something I notice about the Chiefs drafts is that they seem to disregard a college player's entire career but focus on one great game, or a great Senior Bowl performance, or a great combine workout.

Samie Parker and Junior Siavii were the offensive and defensive players of the game in their bowl game against Minnesota last year, and we happened to pick both of them after their career games just happened to be in the bowl game.

Kawika Mitchell's stock apparently went way up after an exceptional combine workout.

And I remember they picked Sly Morris after Gunther was impressed with him when he coached him in the Senior Bowl.

I think we'd do better if there were no bowl games, all-star games, or combine workouts to skew things. One of our best recent picks was Greg Wesley, who didn't play in a bowl, or the senior bowl, or attend the combine. But we did our homework and looked at game film from his whole career, with nothing else to override it.

[htismaqe]

One of the reason we have so many head-scratcher picks, IMO, is because our front office wants to be "geniouses"...guys like Kris Wilson make all of us say "WTF?!?!" on draft day, but if they pan out...well.

[Logical]

Players should be good at tackling before they get to the pros. Our poor performance in this are is evaluation of the players, not coaching. You do not teach tackling by the time they are pros. They never should have been drafted if they did not know how to tackle.

[Swanman]

Something I notice about the Chiefs drafts is that they seem to disregard a college player's entire career but focus on one great game, or a great Senior Bowl performance, or a great combine workout.

Samie Parker and Junior Siavii were the offensive and defensive players of the game in their bowl game against Minnesota last year, and we happened to pick both of them after their career games just happened to be in the bowl game.

Kawika Mitchell's stock apparently went way up after an exceptional combine workout.

And I remember they picked Sly Morris after Gunther was impressed with him when he coached him in the Senior Bowl.

I think we'd do better if there were no bowl games, all-star games, or combine workouts to skew things. One of our best recent picks was Greg Wesley, who didn't play in a bowl, or the senior bowl, or attend the combine. But we did our homework and looked at game film from his whole career, with nothing else to override it.

I think that's especially true with quarterbacks. They did a study a couple years ago looking at quarterbacks in the NFL and how many years they started in college. Basically the study said that QBs that started more than 2 years in college were infinitely more successful than those with 2 years or less of college starting experience. The biggest example of that is Peyton Manning (3+ years as starter) v. Ryan Leaf (1-2 yrs starting). Out of college, people were fairly split about who was better but it's obvious now. Another QB recently that comes to mind is Ken Dorsey. He started for I think 3 years at Miami but fell way down in the draft. Granted, he hasn't torn it up in the NFL yet but he has been more productive than a lot of QBs picked way ahead of him.

[Gaz]

I'll never forgive Carl for drafting Blackledge.

You are an evil man.

xoxo~
Gaz
Suspects some folks don’t even get it.