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KC Jones
09-28-2004, 09:17 AM
I think our defensive line has played pretty damn well so far this year. One only has to look at the tackles for losses and QB pressures to see evidence of this. If a weakness exists on this unit it has been the play at DE, and I heard DA this morning make a salient point on that very topic. It is his opinion (and one I'm inclined to agree with) that our starting DEs lack the athleticism to contain even a modestly mobile QB. He thinks this information has pretty much become a blueprint for attacking the Chiefs - roll out your QB because you can get him outside of the DEs and eliminate the push from Dalton/Sims/Siavii/Browning inside.

DA's solution was a starting front four of Browning, Sims, Dalton, and Allen. Browning has always been a very athletic guy and was originally drafted to play DE. He's been moved between the two positions and spent more time at DT more because of injuries and lack of talent than enything else. While Allen is raw and needs to learn alot about getting untangled from the OT - he's shown the speed that would be a factor in helping to contain bootlegs and rollouts.

Now if we can just get a stud MLB and a top notch CB this defensive line might actually be something to build on.

Hoover
09-28-2004, 09:19 AM
The biggest weakness in Barber at OLB IMO. I thought the D looked good overall on Sunday, I like the 4-4 Defense

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 09:24 AM
I think our defensive line has played pretty damn well so far this year. One only has to look at the tackles for losses and QB pressures to see evidence of this. If a weakness exists on this unit it has been the play at DE, and I heard DA this morning make a salient point on that very topic. It is his opinion (and one I'm inclined to agree with) that our starting DEs lack the athleticism to contain even a modestly mobile QB. He thinks this information has pretty much become a blueprint for attacking the Chiefs - roll out your QB because you can get him outside of the DEs and eliminate the push from Dalton/Sims/Siavii/Browning inside.

DA's solution was a starting front four of Browning, Sims, Dalton, and Allen. Browning has always been a very athletic guy and was originally drafted to play DE. He's been moved between the two positions and spent more time at DT more because of injuries and lack of talent than enything else. While Allen is raw and needs to learn alot about getting untangled from the OT - he's shown the speed that would be a factor in helping to contain bootlegs and rollouts.

Now if we can just get a stud MLB and a top notch CB this defensive line might actually be something to build on.


This might piss some people off, but say if we could get just a decent MLB. Our linebacker play has to be some of the worst in the league. Everyone will say how many tackles Beisel has, but someone has to get the tackles. He just does not make plays.

Fujita seems to have been more suited to the read and react. Maybe he would be better at MLB. (I thought Fujita was great last year, but this year he really never seems to be around the ball, and only makes a play when blitzing.)

It seems like luck any time Barber makes a play. It is usually because the play runs him over.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 09:26 AM
Personally, I am more concerned about MLB than OLB, but that is why BBs are so interesting.

I agree that our DEs are no great shakes. Hicks had a good season under Gunther, but perhaps time has passed him by. I like Allen, but he is young and will make lots of rookie mistakes. Is a quick rookie better than a slower veteran? Do you go with the bigger upside or the smaller downside?

Browning needs to stay at DE. Good position for him.

All things considered, I have been quite pleased with the progress shown by the Defense in only [3] games. I am still cranky with Gunther for rushing [3] Linemen last week, leading to the Houston FG, but on the whole, progress is being made. They are still going to give up some long plays that have me screaming at the TV, but I will try and cultivate some more patience and understanding.

xoxo~
Gaz
Thinks the R&G might have a solidly average D by mid-season.

Tribal Warfare
09-28-2004, 09:26 AM
The linebacking corps are weak in general.

blsilks
09-28-2004, 09:26 AM
We need some speedy gang bangers in there at linebacker. You know the mean kind who got the bling bling. They usually end up making for a good player on the field and a troubled player off the field. We need some more of this off field scandle stuff.

Example: Warfield gets busted for DD and then comes out and gets an interception and saves a TD. We need some more off field controversy for Warfield. Maybe get Priest Holmes involved in some kind of prostitution circle. Just an idea.

KCTitus
09-28-2004, 09:28 AM
Personally, I am more concerned about MLB...

me too...I wanted KC to draft one this last draft. They need a monster in the middle.

KC Jones
09-28-2004, 09:29 AM
We need some speedy gang bangers in there at linebacker. You know the mean kind who got the bling bling. They usually end up making for a good player on the field and a troubled player off the field. We need some more of this off field scandle stuff.

Example: Warfield gets busted for DD and then comes out and gets an interception and saves a TD. We need some more off field controversy for Warfield. Maybe get Priest Holmes involved in some kind of prostitution circle. Just an idea.

:shake:

It's hard for me to believe your not a troll.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 09:32 AM
Personally, I am more concerned about MLB than OLB, but that is why BBs are so interesting.

I agree that our DEs are no great shakes. Hicks had a good season under Gunther, but perhaps time has passed him by. I like Allen, but he is young and will make lots of rookie mistakes. Is a quick rookie better than a slower veteran? Do you go with the bigger upside or the smaller downside?

Browning needs to stay at DE. Good position for him.

All things considered, I have been quite pleased with the progress shown by the Defense in only [3] games. I am still cranky with Gunther for rushing [3] Linemen last week, leading to the Houston FG, but on the whole, progress is being made. They are still going to give up some long plays that have me screaming at the TV, but I will try and cultivate some more patience and understanding.

xoxo~
Gaz
Thinks the R&G might have a solidly average D by mid-season.


If we play Allen at end, that would probably mean that Sims would get benched. Browning is probably the best d-lineman, so he would slide back over to tackle, and Dalton has clearly outplayed Sims.

I am OK with that, but DV would not be. He still needs to prove he was right in drafting Sims.

Chiefnj
09-28-2004, 09:33 AM
I honestly thought that the return of Gunther was going to rejuvenate Hicks' career. I thought wrong.

If you try to get Browning and Allen at DE at the same time one will be playing a position I don't think either has played before (LDE). Browning could probably adapt faster but I don't know how he would handle it.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 09:43 AM
I honestly thought that the return of Gunther was going to rejuvenate Hicks' career. I thought wrong.

If you try to get Browning and Allen at DE at the same time one will be playing a position I don't think either has played before (LDE). Browning could probably adapt faster but I don't know how he would handle it.

I think Browning worked so well at tackle because he is physically stronger than most. His weakness at DE is speed, and how sad is it that a slow DT is better at DE than Holliday. Pretty sad.

LDE would be better for Browning in this scenario because the speed rusher is better coming at the QB's blind side.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 09:44 AM
...
I am OK with that, but DV would not be. He still needs to prove he was right in drafting Sims.

I think that statement is nonsense.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees this crap all the time.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 09:45 AM
I honestly thought that the return of Gunther was going to rejuvenate Hicks' career. I thought wrong...

Me, too.

xoxo~
Gaz
Struck out again.

Frosty
09-28-2004, 09:48 AM
Dalton has clearly outplayed Sims.

I think Dalton has played well because of Sims. Sims gets doubled and Dalton takes advantage of it, something none of the other DTs have been able to do. When Junior is in there instead of Sims, Dalton hasn't been able to make the plays.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 09:50 AM
I think that statement is nonsense.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees this crap all the time.


I am sorry. Sims sucks. But DV calls out LJ, even though LJ has never had a chance to reveal whether or not he sucks. Sims was the 6th pick in the draft, we moved up to get him, and he would still be a disappointment if he had been a second round pick.

Maybe he will turn into a star, and I would love it if he did, but he is marginally the 3rd or 4th best DT on this team, yet he is starting.

Why?

Hoover
09-28-2004, 09:51 AM
Browning needs to stay at DE, and rotate Hick and Holliday at the other spot every other series unless one steps it up

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 09:52 AM
I think Dalton has played well because of Sims. Sims gets doubled and Dalton takes advantage of it, something none of the other DTs have been able to do. When Junior is in there instead of Sims, Dalton hasn't been able to make the plays.

I have watched the games several times, and I just don'y see Sims getting doubled all that much. What has he done to make teams so concerned about him that they would double team him?

Gaz
09-28-2004, 09:54 AM
Sims has played a grand total of [3] games in an Offense that allows him to attack the backfield. It is premature to hang a “sucks” or “bust” on him at this point.

Furthermore, it is nonsense to state that the reason Sims is in the game is because Vermeil is desperate to prove he was right about drafting him. Like him or not, Vermeil has nothing to prove to us. He has shown that he knows more about football than any of us goobers on a BB.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sticking with the facts.

blsilks
09-28-2004, 09:54 AM
If Junior is "so fast" as some of the Chiefs coaches claim, they should put him on the outside against a smaller lineman. I know you need size up the middle but you already have Dalton and Sims. What do you guys think?

KC Jones
09-28-2004, 09:55 AM
If we play Allen at end, that would probably mean that Sims would get benched. Browning is probably the best d-lineman, so he would slide back over to tackle, and Dalton has clearly outplayed Sims.

I am OK with that, but DV would not be. He still needs to prove he was right in drafting Sims.

What part of Browning, Sims, Dalton, Allen as a front four did you miss?

Frankly I'd also be fine with Hicks, Sims, Dalton, Browning.

Either way we have a nice starting front four IMO. Beisel is a stop gap nothing more, but still better than Kawika. Barber tends to get sucked inside or locked up with a blocker. Some of that is probably his trying to overcompensate for what we have at MLB. Put a stud at MLB and I think we'd see a great deal of improvement in Barber.

Secondary is our biggest weakness. Woods is slow - too slow IMO. McCleon is killing us out there. We need another CB of Warfield's ability level or better, and a safety that can catch up to WRs/RBs who break through. What I can tell so far is that on 3rd and long the QB almost always has a wide open receiver. It looks to me like Gunther is trying to protect the shoddy talent in the secondary with a dime package in those situations and only rushing 3 down linemen. It ain't working.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 10:00 AM
Sims has played a grand total of [3] games in an Offense that allows him to attack the backfield. It is premature to hang a “sucks” or “bust” on him at this point.

Furthermore, it is nonsense to state that the reason Sims is in the game is because Vermeil is desperate to prove he was right about drafting him. Like him or not, Vermeil has nothing to prove to us. He has shown that he knows more about football than any of us goobers on a BB.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sticking with the facts.


Yes DV is wise. He believes that we have legit, high caliber NFL corners and receivers. I believe everything he says.

I have heard football people ranging from local guys to national guys state that Sims has horrible technique, slow hands, no push and is overall a poor DT. These are guys that have played the game. I don't know that much about the ins and outs playing DT, but Maas does, and he thinks Sims sucks.

Chiefnj
09-28-2004, 10:12 AM
Gunther also played Allen at DT a couple of times in passing situations last week. I was surprised, but he actually generated some pressure in the middle.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 11:26 AM
Give me a link where Maas said Sims sucks and I will leave you alone.

I think you are throwing out crap.

xoxo~
Gaz
Could be wrong [but doubts it very, VERY much].

KingPriest2
09-28-2004, 11:35 AM
Give me a link where Maas said Sims sucks and I will leave you alone.

I think you are throwing out crap.

xoxo~
Gaz
Could be wrong [but doubts it very, VERY much].



I'll second that. It was on a Friday back in the preseason when Maas said he was giving him the benifit of the doubt. BUT he understands on why people feel the way the do about Sims. First he missed most of his first season. Last year they played Sims differently. 3rd he is under a new D coordinator. Also they are playing Sims differently from the previous two years. Last year could actually be considered his rookie year.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 11:39 AM
Give me a link where Maas said Sims sucks and I will leave you alone.

I think you are throwing out crap.

xoxo~
Gaz
Could be wrong [but doubts it very, VERY much].


When Whitlock was having the little dispute over Sims with DV, DV sent a coaches tape of the game to Whitlock. It had about 15 plays on it. Whitlock publically asked DV to breakdown the tape with him. DV ignored him.

Maas brokedown the tape with JW, and said he had no idea what DV was looking at, because Sims was getting manhandled on every play. He said that most the time, he could not even get the hands of the o-lineman off of him.

I looked for a link for audio on the 61 Sports website, but they apparently only keep things for a week or so.

Here is a
link (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/9426589.htm) to the Star article that talks about the tape given to JW, but it does not mention Maas.

I listen to talk radio everyday because I deliver pizza after college, and I can not find any audio for this, but I am sure someone else had to have heard it too.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 11:41 AM
Like I said:

Throwing out crap.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has already received his quota of crap for the week, thank you very much.

MOhillbilly
09-28-2004, 11:45 AM
We need some speedy gang bangers in there at linebacker. You know the mean kind who got the bling bling. They usually end up making for a good player on the field and a troubled player off the field. We need some more of this off field scandle stuff.

Example: Warfield gets busted for DD and then comes out and gets an interception and saves a TD. We need some more off field controversy for Warfield. Maybe get Priest Holmes involved in some kind of prostitution circle. Just an idea.

Yeah! AND maybe they can shoot someone on the field over a turfwar.
Thatd be *insert whatever MTV says is cool*

philfree
09-28-2004, 11:46 AM
I listen to talk radio everyday

:hmmm: I'm sorry? Was that the proper response?

The front 4 is coming around and the LBs played much better as a group on Sunday. We're on the right track to bad this train has such a huge mountain infront of it.


PhilFree :arrow:

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 11:47 AM
Like I said:

Throwing out crap.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has already received his quota of crap for the week, thank you very much.


You can call it crap, but I heard Maas say it. Someone lese did too.

And my affirmative defense is, even if it is crap (although I honestly heard him say it), Sims sucks.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 11:55 AM
That is much better.

You think Sims sucks. A concise and accurate description of the situation.

I have no idea if he will prove to be worth the pick or not. What I know is that he played all last season under a DC who thought he should stand on the field and hope someone ran into him. This season, he is allowed to attack. It has been [3] whole games and our DL is getting a lot more penetration than last season. Is that because of Sims or despite him? I dunno yet. I need more than [3] games to throw the “suck” word around.

xoxo~
Gaz
Still gathering data.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 11:58 AM
That is much better.

You think Sims sucks. A concise and accurate description of the situation.

I have no idea if he will prove to be worth the pick or not. What I know is that he played all last season under a DC who thought he should stand on the field and hope someone ran into him. This season, he is allowed to attack. It has been [3] whole games and our DL is getting a lot more penetration than last season. Is that because of Sims or despite him? I dunno yet. I need more than [3] games to throw the “suck” word around.

xoxo~
Gaz
Still gathering data.


How many games do you need?

Gaz
09-28-2004, 12:01 PM
I do not know.

I do know that [3] games under a brand-new scheme is not enough for me. It is apparently enough for you and that is your business.

As long as I see penetration from the OL and Sims occasionally double-teamed and in the Enemy backfield, then "sucks" is far away from my brain.

xoxo~
Gaz
More patient that some.

ChiefsFanatic
09-28-2004, 12:21 PM
I do not know.

I do know that [3] games under a brand-new scheme is not enough for me. It is apparently enough for you and that is your business.

As long as I see penetration from the OL and Sims occasionally double-teamed and in the Enemy backfield, then "sucks" is far away from my brain.

xoxo~
Gaz
More patient that some.


You are right, three games in a new scheme is not enough. But his performance in the preseason games, his performance last year (yes, I will put an * by his performance last year due to the fact the grob was the DC) does not leave him a lot of room for error in my book.

Maybe that makes me stupid, wrong, etc.

Mark M
09-28-2004, 12:29 PM
The DLine is not what worries me. With a lineup of Browning/Dalton/Sims/Allen, I think they can get pressure and contain a QB.

It's LBs who take themselves out of plays and/or fail to shed blocks that worry me.

It's a secondary that can't seem to play man-to-man well enough to give Gun the confidence to blitz on 3rd and forever, rather than only rushing 3 and dropping everyone else back in zone, only to allow a long completion anyway.

Why the didn't move Barber to the middle (since he's slow) and keep Beisel on the outside (where he was already working, albeit on the opposite side) is beyond me.

As far as Sims sucking, I'd like to see what happens after he successfully unlearns everything taught to him by Knobinson. I expect that to be about game 6.

MM
~~:arrow:

Gaz
09-28-2004, 12:30 PM
I don’t’ count preseason games. That’s just me.

In the Gaz Book, Sims has played [3] games in a scheme that can use the ability that got him drafted in the first Round. Don’t get me wrong: he may yet prove to be a bust. I was thrilled when we drafted him because DT was a glaring weakness at the time. But the draft is always a gamble and we will see how this one turns out.

Stupid? Wrong?

Not yet.

[That, ah say, THAT was a joke, son].

xoxo~
Gaz
Old enough to have developed some patience.

Mark M
09-28-2004, 12:32 PM
Old enough to have developed some patience.

You sure that's not just dementia?

MM
~~:p

Gaz
09-28-2004, 12:36 PM
You sure that's not just dimentia?

MM
~~:p

Hmph...

I am old and wise enough to spell-check before I try to arf on someone…

Insert childish gesture involving the dangly bits here.

And, no, I am NOT sure, thank you very dam’ much for asking.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sensitive about his advanced state of decrepitude.

Mark M
09-28-2004, 12:38 PM
I am old and wise enough to spell-check before I try to arf on someone…

You're so old you can't even quote someone correctly.

Sheesh ... you ARE losing it.

MM
~~:D

Coogs
09-28-2004, 12:38 PM
Now if we can just get a stud MLB and a top notch CB this defensive line might actually be something to build on.


I watched a little bit of the first half of the Redskins/Cowboys game last night. I have to admit that I was a little bit envious of the secondary of the Cowboys. Williams and Newman, plus the other two DB's gave the 'skins nothing. Brunell was taking a beating early in the game due to the skins being blanketed. I suspect we will see the same thing from the secondary of the Ravens this weekend, plus the MLB who can dominate a game.

What does that all mean in this thread. I tend to agree with the front 4 is doing fine right now. The biggest help to the defense could be the addition of a stud MLB and a top notch CB.

At the top of my wish list from the college ranks this next year are these three...

Abdul Hodge MLB Iowa. He reminds me of Ray Lewis is what little bit I have seen him play. Probably need to defer to the Hawkeye fans for more info on him, but what I have seen of him I like.

Antrel Rolle CB Miami
Corey Webster CB LSU

I have see both of these two guys play many games. More last season than this, but either one of these two would be a huge addition to our secondary.

As of right now, I hope we can manage to get 2 picks in the first round of next years draft and grab one of the two CB's and Hodge.

Gaz
09-28-2004, 12:40 PM
You're so old you can't even quote someone correctly.

Sheesh ... you ARE losing it.

MM
~~:D

Oh, OH, you are SUCH a dog.

xoxo~
Gaz
Just insulted canine Americans everywhere.

KingPriest2
09-28-2004, 03:22 PM
When Whitlock was having the little dispute over Sims with DV, DV sent a coaches tape of the game to Whitlock. It had about 15 plays on it. Whitlock publically asked DV to breakdown the tape with him. DV ignored him.

Maas brokedown the tape with JW, and said he had no idea what DV was looking at, because Sims was getting manhandled on every play. He said that most the time, he could not even get the hands of the o-lineman off of him.

I looked for a link for audio on the 61 Sports website, but they apparently only keep things for a week or so.

Here is a
link (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/9426589.htm) to the Star article that talks about the tape given to JW, but it does not mention Maas.

I listen to talk radio everyday because I deliver pizza after college, and I can not find any audio for this, but I am sure someone else had to have heard it too.

But Maas was giving him the benifit of the doubt. He also said it was preseason as well. He was going to see how he does in the season. He played in 2 different positions in his first two years. (on top of that he added he was injured his first year)

the Talking Can
09-28-2004, 03:29 PM
I thought our LBs looked much improved over the previous week, especially Barber- he seemed much more fired up....and the whole unit was gang tackling, but key breakdowns keep happening and Woods and McCleon are baffling to watch....I just hope they can bring that same energy next week

KC Kings
09-28-2004, 03:39 PM
I think Browning worked so well at tackle because he is physically stronger than most. His weakness at DE is speed, and how sad is it that a slow DT is better at DE than Holliday. Pretty sad.

LDE would be better for Browning in this scenario because the speed rusher is better coming at the QB's blind side.

Wasn't Browning an end converted to a tackle by the Chiefs? I could be wrong but I thought that was his natural position.

Lionel Dalton impressed me both last week and these week, and I disagree about Sims making him look better. I think they are playing off each other, and it was Dalton, (along with a 3rd string lineman) that let Sims look so good this last game. Nothing wrong with that, it worked great with Peppers.


I also have to say, that MLB is killing us. You look with a naked eye and watch Beisel, and I can find positives and negatives. Until this Sunday I thought he was playing decent for a guy new to the position. However, I watched the games with a former MLB, and he points out things that I obviously miss, and Biesle looks pretty awfull. Unfortunatley Barber doesn't look much better.