Speed of record setting ticket in doubt.

[Radar Chief]

Motorcycle World Abuzz at 205 Mph Ticket (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040927/ap_on_fe_st/205_mph_ticket)


Sun Sep 26,10:26 PM ET

MINNEAPOLIS - People across the country are shaking their heads over the kid ticketed for allegedly riding his motorcycle at 205 mph — some out of disapproval, other because they doubt he went that fast.

Ever since a State Patrol pilot clocked Samuel Armstrong Tilley's 2002 Honda RC51 going a quarter-mile in 4.39 seconds on Sept. 18, people in chatrooms, garages and biker bars from Sturgis, S.D., to Los Angeles have been buzzing about the alleged feat on Highway 61 near Wabasha.
"Certainly anyone who flouts the law to that extent is seen by some as a latter-day Robin Hood, flying in the face of authority and doing stuff we all want to do but common sense stops us from," said David Edwards, editor-in-chief of Cycle World, a magazine based in Newport Beach, Calif.
Edwards is among the many experts who doubt Tilley's bike could have gone so fast. "More likely, the cop with the stopwatch had an itchy trigger finger," he told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis.
"There are lots of guys who have been spending a lot of money and a lot of years at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah trying to join the official 200 Club and most still haven't done it," Edwards said. He said Tilley's bike would have needed an add-on turbo charger to go above 165 mph.
State Patrol pilot Al Loney, a 27-year veteran, and his superiors stand by their report.
Tilley, who graduated from Stillwater High School last year, hasn't returned numerous calls seeking comment. He's due to appear in Wabasha County Court on Oct. 25.
Tilley purchased his motorcycle last summer from Tousley Motorsports in White Bear Lake, where he once worked.
Tousley President Larry Koch said Tilley is a nice guy, "but I really want to ask him: 'What in the hell were you thinking?'"


I’ll tell ya what he was thinking: YEE FUGG’N HAW!

[Garcia Bronco]

205 MPH?!?

Doubt it....the question is...is there a certificate of calibration?

[Donger]

Heck, that's nothing. I once got pulled over on K-10, and the cop claimed I was doing 110 mph in a 1983 VW Rabbit.

[Phobia]

As the former owner of a 1982 VW Rabbit, I can attest that it was lucky day to get that thing up to 85.

[Radar Chief]

Just because this is the kinda thing I deal with, I did some calculating and found that clearing a ¼ mile in 4.39 seconds does indeed equal 205 MPH. But, an RC51’s stock top speed is just over 160. So I calculated again using that 160 MPH speed and found that he’d have cleared the same ¼ mile in 5.625 seconds. Now I don’t believe that the officer is off by over a second on his stopwatch, but it does illustrate the possible variance at that kind of velocity.
Also know that the speed as calculated is an average speed in that distance, it is possible to reach a higher peak speed than what was recorded using a stopwatch.

[Radar Chief]

205 MPH?!?

Doubt it....

Until I read what the bike was, I didn’t. The big four cylinders have been flirting with 200 for a few years now and can actually break that speed with comparatively little work other than de-restricting them.
However a Honda RC51 is a 1000cc V-Twin and without a considerable amount of work, like a turbo as stated in the article, won’t make the kind of horsepower necessary for that much velocity.

[cdcox]

Just because this is the kinda thing I deal with, I did some calculating and found that clearing a ¼ mile in 4.39 seconds does indeed equal 205 MPH. But, an RC51’s stock top speed is just over 160. So I calculated again using that 160 MPH speed and found that he’d have cleared the same ¼ mile in 5.625 seconds. Now I don’t believe that the officer is off by over a second on his stopwatch, but it does illustrate the possible variance at that kind of velocity.
Also know that the speed as calculated is an average speed in that distance, it is possible to reach a higher peak speed than what was recorded using a stopwatch.

Forty yard dash times are very similar in terms of number of seconds. Normally two or three guys will time a single runner and they will average the times. The independent measurements are normally well within 0.1 second. Unless the officer was very inexperienced, I don't see any way that he flubbed up enough on the timing to bring the speed down below 200 MPH.

Would be interesting to know if there were any mods on the bike.

[Demonpenz]

maybe he was going down hill

[Radar Chief]

maybe he was going down hill

Takes a lot of down hill to get an extra 40 MPH out of a bike.

[Demonpenz]

downhill with the wind at his back

[Radar Chief]

downhill with the wind at his back

ROFL And a rocket up his azz.

[dtebbe]

He wasn't thinking anything, the smile on his face totally prevented that... kind of like my first ride on a shifter kart....


DT

[2bikemike]

I think maybe those speeds could have been attained on say a tuned Hyabusa but not the RC51.

That is pretty damn fast. I think the kid is screwed regardless. He may be able to attack the cops credibility but I bet the still get him for reckless driving and he loses his license.

[Mr. Laz]

I think maybe those speeds could have been attained on say a tuned Hyabusa but not the RC51.

That is pretty damn fast. I think the kid is screwed regardless. He may be able to attack the cops credibility but I bet the still get him for reckless driving and he loses his license.

but if they can't prove that the 205 was viable then how can they prove any speed is viable?


i tried to fight a ticket on my own once... stood up in court and did my best Perry Mason. Took pictures of the sand that cause my alleged "excessive aceleration" and everything.


Judge told me i was full of chit and to just pay the fine :D


had several people tell me i did a heck of a job on the way out of the court room though.

lol ROFL

[KCWolfman]

Tousley President Larry Koch said Tilley is a nice guy, "but I really want to ask him: 'What in the hell were you thinking?'"

Cuz the chicks dig it.

[2bikemike]

but if they can't prove that the 205 was viable then how can they prove any speed is viable?


i tried to fight a ticket on my own once... stood up in court and did my best Perry Mason. Took pictures of the sand that cause my alleged "excessive aceleration" and everything.


Judge told me i was full of chit and to just pay the fine :D


had several people tell me i did a heck of a job on the way out of the court room though.

lol ROFL

For the kids sake I hope he doesn't beat it. But if he does attack the cops credibility he just might beat it.

The reason I hope the kid doesn't beat it is I think he needs to learn a lesson. That is just too damn fast to be riding on the streets. If he wipes himself out it will just be his loved ones hurting. But if another car is involved he is involving and screwing up somebody elses life. We have a track a couple hours north of here where anybody can put their bikes on and blast a way. Don't know if any other places do that but its a great outlet for all those go faster crotch rockets. Of course we still have the knuckle heads out here blasting around the mountains on their bikes and somebody is always wiping out.

[Eleazar]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... I've heard of people working on getting a Busa or something to 200, but even that's with some mods (according to the goons at sportbikez anyway). From what I read it wouldn't be possible to get an RC51 there outside of nitro or something.

Of course the stopwatch/markers method of timing speed has all kinds of room for error, but even if he was only going about 75% of the speed they thought, 165, I dont think it would help him that much. It's still 100mph over the speed limit and isn't going to get rid of the reckless driving charge or anything.

[Eleazar]

However a Honda RC51 is a 1000cc V-Twin and without a considerable amount of work, like a turbo as stated in the article, won’t make the kind of horsepower necessary for that much velocity.

From what I can find it puts out about 128hp, don't the huge fours make like 150+?

[Radar Chief]

From what I can find it puts out about 128hp, don't the huge fours make like 150+?

The Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa, Kawasaki ZX-12R & ZX-10R are all making over 160 horsepower at the rear wheel. The Suzuki GSXR1000, Honda CBR 1000RR and Yamaha YZF R-1 aren’t making quite that much but are all over 150 horses at the rear wheel.
When the Hayabusa came out in ’99 it hit a radar verified 196 MPH and, depending on the magazine you read, was the first stock production bike to break into the 9’s in the ¼. This got a lot of attention some unwanted. Then when news came from the Kawasaki camp that they were going to sell a bike even faster the chit hit the fan.
Now all the big bikes coming from Japan are electronically limited to 187 MPH. Though it didn’t take long for the aftermarket to find ways around this, and the full potential is available for those that aren’t satisfied with “just” 187 MPH.

[Radar Chief]

but if they can't prove that the 205 was viable then how can they prove any speed is viable?


This is exactly why this kid is screwed. If the judge throws out this ticket, he then has to throw out all tickets written using this stopwatch, or more likely Vascar or Sky Tracker unit. Then tickets can’t be written using this unit until it can be recalibrated and certified as accurate. In some extreme cases, the entire method has to be re-evaluated.

[Eleazar]

The Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa, Kawasaki ZX-12R & ZX-10R are all making over 160 horsepower at the rear wheel. The Suzuki GSXR1000, Honda CBR 1000RR and Yamaha YZF R-1 aren’t making quite that much but are all over 150 horses at the rear wheel.
When the Hayabusa came out in ’99 it hit a radar verified 196 MPH and, depending on the magazine you read, was the first stock production bike to break into the 9’s in the ¼. This got a lot of attention some unwanted. Then when news came from the Kawasaki camp that they were going to sell a bike even faster the chit hit the fan.
Now all the big bikes coming from Japan are electronically limited to 187 MPH. Though it didn’t take long for the aftermarket to find ways around this, and the full potential is available for those that aren’t satisfied with “just” 187 MPH.

Cool, good info :thumb: Being as this is a more recent interest of mine I didn't know the full history.

I thought that the big liter+ machines could usually get up to the 180s. So it seems like these bikes can get close to 200 but they have 20% more horsepower than the bike in question then?

[Lbedrock1]

No way that rc51 went 205. I ride a a hayabusa and it will stop at 182 because it is limited (doen't have the chip) and it would only do about 210 without the limiter. There are bike that can do 200 + but not the RC51.

[Radar Chief]

Cool, good info :thumb: Being as this is a more recent interest of mine I didn't know the full history.

I thought that the big liter+ machines could usually get up to the 180s. So it seems like these bikes can get close to 200 but they have 20% more horsepower than the bike in question then?

Ya, right around 20-30% more. But also know that every one of these bikes I’ve mentioned are ram air assisted and a four cylinder will make more efficient use of the added boost, having twice the number of intake events per engine revolution than a v-twin. So they’re actually making more power going down the road than what a dyno can show.
Although peak velocity is more than just horsepower, it also depends on gearing. The RC51 just isn’t geared for 200 and even with a turbo or nitrous, you’d be pushing the engine deep into it’s redline to reach that speed. Unless of course gearing was change but then acceleration would suck boaws.

[ROYC75]

I have a hard time with a 205 mph as well.........

But what do I know, I wasn't there .