Target bans Salvation Army bell ringers

[Saulbadguy]

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/3735884/detail.html

Target Stores Ban Salvation Army Bell Ringers
Local Aid Group Facing $20,000 Shortfall

POSTED: 12:06 pm EDT September 16, 2004
UPDATED: 12:23 pm EDT September 16, 2004
CINCINNATI -- If you shop at Target stores, you won't be seeing one very familiar sight this Christmas season.

Target has banned all Salvation Army bell ringers.

WLWT's Sheree Paolello reports that the decision could be devastating for our local Salvation Army and people like Rodney Fudge, whose family used to count on help from the group. Fudge became a captain in the Salvation Army and a bell ringer himself, standing beside the red kettle and accepting donations outside stores.

"My mother raised eight children. She wouldn't accept welfare, so many of our meals and toys came from the Salvation Army," Fudge said. "They would always show up right on time."

Suddenly the Salvation Army is in jeopardy of not delivering, Paolello reports.

Target has a long standing "no-solicitation" policy and was making an exception for the Salvation Army. The sudden change is costly.

Target customers donated about $20,000 for the local Salvation Army and $9 million nationally, Paolello reports.

"We still have the same people where we have to be their Christmas," Fudge said. "We're their Santa Claus."

Both Wal-Mart and Kroger say they'll welcome Salvation Army bell ringers, so shoppers can look for the red kettles there.

[Braincase]

Anybody wanna bet how Target does this Christmas shopping season? I'm betting best year evar.

I get that bell waved at me every where I go. Hy-Vee, Dillons, Kohls. And I am pretty liberal with the donations, but it'll be nice to know there's one place I can go and not get waylaid by a bell ringer.

[gblowfish]

They could lost $20,000, but they may have "fudged" the numbers. STFU

[PastorMikH]

If all that was donated at Target stores was 20,000 nationaly, they are probably doing the Salvation Army a favor. It looks like each store is acounting for about $20 a year. They have people ringing the bell during store hours, sometimes in really cold temperatures, and only raise $20 or so per store? Yep, I'd say Target is doing them a favor.

[Chiefnj]

The LOCAL chapter lost 20 grand and nationally they will lose 9 million.

[KC Jones]

I get that bell waved at me every where I go. Hy-Vee, Dillons, Kohls. And I am pretty liberal with the donations, but it'll be nice to know there's one place I can go and not get waylaid by a bell ringer.

They must have some pretty aggressive bell ringers in Lawrence. I usually just see someone passively ringing a bell by a kettle. I've never seen them put the bell in someones face or waylay anyone.

Maybe you just feel guilty every time you see the kettle and hear the bell. That's not their fault.

[Demonpenz]

I would give more if they didn't ring a bell at all, your already listening to your family's shit, the noise of christmas is all up your face already, I would drop a 5 spot if there was I was quiet spot outside with guy sitting there reading a book, i would say, thank you a moment of peace you can have some of my great Kmart popcorn and five dollars

[Swanman]

They must have some pretty aggressive bell ringers in Lawrence. I usually just see someone passively ringing a bell by a kettle. I've never seen them put the bell in someones face or waylay anyone.

Maybe you just feel guilty every time you see the kettle and hear the bell. That's not their fault.

My dad's a retired firefighter and every year they had to spend a day ringing the Salvation Army bell, and he was so passive he was almost asleep standing up.

Lately at the grocery stores up in Chicagoland the Boy Scouts have been selling their popcorn and other stuff and they are ultra-aggressive. I had a kid follow me halfway to my car this past weekend. I've seen downtown Chicago panhandlers hopped up on crystal meth that were less aggressive.

[OmahaChief]

Good! Screw those self righteious pricks that run the Salvation Army. Two years ago they refused a huge donation from a man that won the lottery becuase it was money he made "gambling". It seems they have no problem taking a buck or two from us that gamble at the Casinos, the thing is they just don't know it. They don't know they take money from rapists, child and wife abusers, drug addicts and career criminals. If they asked everyone that slips money in their damned red kettles questions about their personal lives or how they got their money these aholes would be taking in pennies on the dollar that they do now. I have not given to them for 2 years now and I now support the Marines Toys for Tots with my Christmas donations bucks.

[38yrsfan]

Looks like scrooge is early this year and Christmas already has some nerves frayed. Lighten up guys, you don't have to donate. Guilt? I walk by them and can talk to them and still not contribute, they are people they understand if you contributed before, elsewhere, can't afford it, or don't want to, etc.

Target's policy is more about discrimination laws concerning gays and atheists. They banned the Boy Scouts a couple of years ago after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the scouts excluding gays from membership and leader positions. They consider themselves to be a progressive mind-set company. Myself and many I know have "boycotted" Target to show our policy.

[NewChief]

I heard this report on the radio. The weirdest part was the SA guy talking about their "branding" being incongruous with Target's branding.

He made it sound like the whole thing was a problem with SA's image not matching Target's image...even going so far as to mention that, "Some of our bellringers are also recipients of SA assistance, but I've told Target repeatedly that if we need to do something to make our bellringers better fit their image, please let us know."

The guy was practically saying: some of our bellringers are poor and dirty. We'll make them take baths if Target demands it.

[Hammock Parties]

I'll catch some heat for this, but I have never liked the Salvation Army putting out those f*cking bell ringers. It's highly annoying. Just set up a booth with a sign, if people want to donate they are going to do so regardless of whether or not you have someone sitting there ringing a bell in everyone's ears.

[jspchief]

I heard this report on the radio. The weirdest part was the SA guy talking about their "branding" being incongruous with Target's branding.

He made it sound like the whole thing was a problem with SA's image not matching Target's image...even going so far as to mention that, "Some of our bellringers are also recipients of SA assistance, but I've told Target repeatedly that if we need to do something to make our bellringers better fit their image, please let us know."

The guy was practically saying: some of our bellringers are poor and dirty. We'll make them take baths if Target demands it.

That was my first thought when I read the article. The Salvation Army is too dirty for Target's image. I think it's true too.

Target has found their niche in the superstore industry by not being dumpy like K-mart and Walmart. It's the reason I shop there.

[Rausch]

Good! Screw those self righteious pricks that run the Salvation Army. Two years ago they refused a huge donation from a man that won the lottery becuase it was money he made "gambling". It seems they have no problem taking a buck or two from us that gamble at the Casinos, the thing is they just don't know it. They don't know they take money from rapists, child and wife abusers, drug addicts and career criminals. If they asked everyone that slips money in their damned red kettles questions about their personal lives or how they got their money these aholes would be taking in pennies on the dollar that they do now. I have not given to them for 2 years now and I now support the Marines Toys for Tots with my Christmas donations bucks.

Pretty much.

I never understood why the SA wouldn't accept money from a gambler, but would take it from a good church-goer and then give it to a crack head...

[shaneo69]

Salvation Army facility finds itself the target of complaints
By Bill Smith
Of the Post-Dispatch
09/23/2004

Reeling from complaints of homosexual activity, drug trafficking and loitering near the Harbor Light Center in midtown St. Louis, local Salvation Army officials are facing a showdown with city officials over the future of the 70-year-old center.

At the heart of the problem is whether Harbor Light, which treats about 300 men a day for drug and alcohol addiction, chronic homelessness and a variety of mental illnesses, can exist in an area marked for significant redevelopment in coming years.

"We admit there are blemishes. We are not perfect," said Capt. Timothy Best, administrator of the Harbor Light Center at 3010 Washington Boulevard, which covers most of a city block just east of the city's Grand Avenue theater district.

"But for people to say this is a madhouse, that's wrong," Best continued. "If not for us, where would these people go? The idea that if we just went away, all the problems would go away, that just wouldn't happen.

"It would be worse."

In recent weeks, the Salvation Army has received several letters from residents and business owners in the area, most complaining about homosexual prostitution, drug activity and men with seemingly nowhere to go congregating in doorways and on street corners.

Typical is a letter to Best from Carter Hendricks, a businessman, who said, "The Salvation Army has consistently refused to recognize that the Harbor Light facility is a key player in the male prostitution problem, which it has brought to this neighborhood, developed and facilitated for 15 years. . . . As a church you must accept moral responsibility for all of the male prostitutes and all of their customers."

Robert Grimm, another business owner, said he believes the Salvation Army programs at Harbor Light are "failing both the neighborhood and the people who live there." Just last weekend, Grimm said, he looked out the window of his business to see two men engaged in a sex act against his building.

"I used to put money in the kettles," Grimm said, referring to the Salvation Army's annual Tree of Lights red kettle campaign. "I won't do that any more.

"I don't think what they are doing is helping these people. I think that it's warehousing."

St. Louis Police Chief Joe Mokwa said last week that police have arrested "dozens" of men over the past year for prostitution-related activities near Harbor Light. It's difficult to know just how many of those arrested are Salvation Army clients, he said.

Mokwa said he sees the activity in the area as "a significant issue in a community that is trying to market development."

"There are so many positive things going on in the central corridor," he said. "There is momentum, and these kinds of issues can really take that momentum away."

Mokwa said his office has met with Salvation Army officials about problems, and that "we hope to come up with a collaborative effort to solve them."

Recently, Mokwa, Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce and other police and city officials met with residents to listen to their concerns. The officials promised action, the residents say.

One possibility, at least according to city officials, is to cite the center under the city's "public nuisance" ordinance. Such a notification to Salvation Army officials would force the Salvation Army to come up with a plan to address the problems in the area.

Sam Simon, director of public safety for the city and the person ultimately responsible for sending a nuisance notice, said it was too early to know whether such a notice is needed.

"Right now, we want to understand what the scope of the problem is," he said. "We need to get to the root of this. We want to jump on it as soon as we can."

Salvation Army officials have said much of the work outside the center must fall to the city. "It's a community issue, a police issue," said Best. "I really think we are doing a good job with a minimum amount of staff."

Others in the mayor's office have been tough in their criticism of the Harbor Light operation and the local Salvation Army, at least privately.

In April, Mayor Francis Slay's executive director for development, Barbara A. Geisman, wrote that the city had been pushing unsuccessfully for the Salvation Army to move to St. Louis County.

"The Salvation Army is willing to move but only if the city will find them another place in the city to relocate," Geisman wrote, responding to a complaint about activities around the Harbor Light Center.

"The problem is that we cannot foist this facility off on another city neighborhood unless and until the Army cleans up its act."

The Salvation Army operates or assists in the operation of several programs at the center complex, from a program that provides "mats" for about 50 homeless men a night, to residential, longer-term drug and alcohol counseling and treatment programs, to respite care for homeless men who are not ill enough to be hospitalized but are too sick to return to the streets.

Best, the man in charge of the center, said some changes are under way. The agency has ordered brightly colored vests for its security workers that will make it easier for residents and business operators to identify them.

Neighborhood patrols have been increased. Last week, workers were posting several "No Loitering" signs on the fence surrounding the center.

Concern over problems in and around the Harbor Light building date to the early 1990s, Hendricks said.

Maj. Lonneal Richardson, the Salvation Army's city commander in charge of the organization's city programs, said last week that the city has never asked the agency to do anything "that we have not been willing to do."

Richardson said the Salvation Army has studied the possibility of moving the Harbor Light Center, but plans have either proved too costly or the neighborhoods where a new center would be built fought the plans.

"We are not committed to a building," he said. "But we are committed to the individuals who often do not have another place to go.

"We cannot just shut our eyes to what is going on around us."

[Hammock Parties]

All I have to say is....

YOU WERE WRONG, CABINET SANCHEZ!

[PastorMikH]

Good! Screw those self righteious pricks that run the Salvation Army. Two years ago they refused a huge donation from a man that won the lottery becuase it was money he made "gambling".



I had forgotten about that one. FWIW, anyone that hits the jackpot in the lottery and is looking for a non-for-profit place to donate, I would be willing to help you out.;):)

[2bikemike]

I rang the bell for the Salvation Army as a kid in in KC. We used to get paid to do it. And I always lifted a little cash out of the kettle for my own use as well.

I will probably burn in hell. But that isn't the worst things I have done.

[jspchief]

we need another thread on this topic

[cdcox]

we need another thread on this topic

Check again, dyslexia breath :)