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Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437051)
I'm just saying. Say we pass on Aaron Curry, go on with Rocky Boiman and Donnie Edwards, and then see what we think of Curry in five or ten years when Sanchez is a bust and we still have a bad defense, meanwhile Cleveland has Curry making plays all over the field. I'm not saying that's for sure what would happen, but it seems pretty likely to me.

If you want to talk about what happened this year. The Titans are the chiefs? They used a top 5 pick on VY a few years ago which is paying them ZERO dividends right now. The guy is riding the bench and taking up a lot of cap space.

The Cardinals are in the Super bowl with a similar situation. A top 10 draft pick QB riding the bench, taking up cap space while a veteran Free agent is leading them to greatness.

The Steelers are in the super bowl again. The Steelers are the epitome of Defense wins championships. Yeah they drafted Roethlisberger in the early part of the first round, but they were an established team with a great defense already. And They won the super bowl in his second season with him completing 9 passes total in the super bowl. The guy has gotten better, but do you think that if Tommy Maddox had still been their QB they couldn't have won the super bowl?

So a Defensive team with a great running game, and a team with a veteran free agent QB are in the super bowl.

If the 90's chiefs are like any of these teams its the steelers. We had a solid defense year after year and a good running game, we just never had quite enough pieces to make it work well enough. WE add veteran Joe Montana who San Fran didn't want anymore and we nearly go to a super bowl. Why are you attacking me as if I'm a moron, I believe we are both making fair points.
A coverage linebacker is in no way, shape or form worth a top 5 pick. I'm sorry. They cannot impact enough games in meaningful ways.

jeffp12 01-29-2009 02:22 AM
Curry is a great tackler who is fast and has good hands. He's a ball hawk, a turnover making kind of guy. Maybe he isnt' a great run stuffer, but I think if you look at the depth the chiefs have, LB is our definitely worst area.

In his junior year he took 3 picks back for TDs an NCAA record for LBs. That isn't game changing?

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:23 AM
Oh god.......100 million dollars of OT is just not a good idea. It's overkill major overkill.

Aaron Curry is not a rush backer, if he was I might have a different view of him, he's a prototypical strongside 4-3 guy which means..he'll cover TE's and make some nice plays in the run game I don't see him as a game changer.

See this is the kind of thing I'm talking about, it's the fear, Curry has a really high floor the odds of him being a total bum are pretty low, so that's how you want to draft. Carls gotten it in peoples heads now that if the guy isn't a total shitstick then it wasn't a bad pick since he made so many horrid ones.

You fire on that QB you know why.....QB is far and away the most valuable position in the league, If you took Keith Bulluck off the Titans and gave them a legit QB instead, they'd be better off.

Once again there are at most 4 players the Chiefs can justify drafting this year and none of them are offensive lineman because they just took their LT last year, what is with this obsession you don't need 5 1st round offensive lineman hell you don't even need 1.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good (Post 5437053)
So Sanchez, Stafford and who?
BJ Raji if you go to the 3-4 imo.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437056)
Curry is a great tackler who is fast and has good hands. He's a ball hawk, a turnover making kind of guy. Maybe he isnt' a great run stuffer, but I think if you look at the depth the chiefs have, LB is our definitely worst area.

In his junior year he took 3 picks back for TDs an NCAA record for LBs. That isn't game changing?
Yea it's also a position teams devalue and consider not nearly as important...right now LB around the league is the most devalued defensive position.

Tell me who the Colts and Eagles starting LB's are...exactly.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437056)
Curry is a great tackler who is fast and has good hands. He's a ball hawk, a turnover making kind of guy. Maybe he isnt' a great run stuffer, but I think if you look at the depth the chiefs have, LB is our definitely worst area.

In his junior year he took 3 picks back for TDs an NCAA record for LBs. That isn't game changing?
And QBs routinely throw for 30 tds a year. Perspective is amazing.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good (Post 5437053)
So Sanchez, Stafford and who?
Those 2, Raji if they go 3-4 can be justified and Malcolm Jenkins can be justified as taking the best player on the board at a valuable position, that's it after those I don't think they can really justify another player.

jeffp12 01-29-2009 02:27 AM
I think DE, DT, and OT are the most valuable positions in the league. When the great O-line is in place then guys like Damon Huard and Matt Hasselback can be pro-bowlers. I think they are the most valuable because they make everyone else look better. A great DT can kill the other teams run game. A great DE can kill the passing game. A great OT can pave the way for 1000 yard rusher after 1000 yard rusher. A great QB that you can't protect can't do a lot. A great Qb without a defense can put up points but not many playoff wins.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:28 AM
Ah so you don't value QB's, that's brilliant.

I want you to show me what team has used more than 1, 1st round pick on it's OL...really show me.

I am a supporter of drafting Dlineman but not when the guys aren't worthy of the picks because they aren't the caliber of prospect worthy of the pick.

QB, DE, LT, CB, DT, WR that's the value chart in my opinion.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437063)
I think DE, DT, and OT are the most valuable positions in the league. When the great O-line is in place then guys like Damon Huard and Matt Hasselback can be pro-bowlers. I think they are the most valuable because they make everyone else look better. A great DT can kill the other teams run game. A great DE can kill the passing game. A great OT can pave the way for 1000 yard rusher after 1000 yard rusher. A great QB that you can't protect can't do a lot. A great Qb without a defense can put up points but not many playoff wins.
Unless we switch to a 3-4, there isnt a defensive player in this years draft you can justify taking at 3. And there isn't any justification to spend a 3 to fix our oline when it can easily be done in FA and a midround draft choice.

jeffp12 01-29-2009 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 5437060)
And QBs routinely throw for 30 tds a year. Perspective is amazing.
Take a great team with a solid defense and a great offensive line. Take away their Perennial Pro Bowler QB, put in a backup who hasnt started since high school and what do you get?

Matt Cassell fills in for Brady and shows you what I'm talking about. They go 11-5, and only miss the playoffs because the playoff structure is flawed. Most years they get in and I'm not betting against Belicheck in the playoffs. Do you really think Cassell would be great if he were a chief? So the difference between Brady and Cassel was 16-0 to 11-5. I don't think anyone expected them to repeat 16-0 if tom brady was there, maybe 13-3 or 14-2, so downgrading to cassell cost them all of 2 or 3 wins. And you're telling me that QB is the most valuable position. When you can run the ball, protect the QB and play defense, you can make most QBs look good or great.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5437064)
Ah so you don't value QB's, that's brilliant.

I want you to show me what team has used more than 1, 1st round pick on it's OL...really show me.

I am a supporter of drafting Dlineman but not when the guys aren't worthy of the picks because they aren't the caliber of prospect worthy of the pick.

QB, DE, LT, CB, DT, WR that's the value chart in my opinion.
Exactly. If God's Gift to the defensive line was available in this year's draft, I'd be all for it. But he's not, unless you're talking about Michael Johnson's potential, in which case, please draft him in the second round.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437068)
Take a great team with a solid defense and a great offensive line. Take away their Perennial Pro Bowler QB, put in a backup who hasnt started since high school and what do you get?

Matt Cassell fills in for Brady and shows you what I'm talking about. They go 11-5, and only miss the playoffs because the playoff structure is flawed. Most years they get in and I'm not betting against Belicheck in the playoffs. Do you really think Cassell would be great if he were a chief? So the difference between Brady and Cassel was 16-0 to 11-5. I don't think anyone expected them to repeat 16-0 if tom brady was there, maybe 13-3 or 14-2, so downgrading to cassell cost them all of 2 or 3 wins. And you're telling me that QB is the most valuable position. When you can run the ball, protect the QB and play defense, you can make most QBs look good or great.
Uh, New England's defense sucked and they hardly ran the ball.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:35 AM
I would throw safety up there with WR actually but, it's just blatantly obvious this guy listened to, to many Marty and Cowher smash mouth rants.

The OL thing is overkill I will in no way support the idea of using back to back 1st round picks on OT's especially both of them coming in the top 20 and this one being 3rd, if the Chiefs were picking like 28th, I'd have a different view of it.

End I'd support of a player warranted the pick, I'm a big fan of Everette Brown but he's not worth the pick.

So you start really narrowing this down into roughly a 3 or 4 player race.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 5437070)
Uh, New England's defense sucked and they hardly ran the ball.
LOL, well New england actually finished 6th in the league in rushing but the truth is people just look at Cassells stats they don't realize he has ****ing Randy Moss on his team, and Wes Welker the Pats lead the league in YAC yards this year..he also took more than double the sacks Brady did..

With Brady NE is winning the Superbowl, this year I have no doubt about it without him they're watching at home.


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