Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 7126099)

You know what kind of 3-4 end is worth top 5 picks?

Suh
Bruce Smith
Reggie White

Guys that get sacks and have the skill set to also play the 5-technique.

3 down players that dominate the run and pass game.

Boiled down, NOT Tyson Jackson.

Disclaimer: I wasn't as pissed about the pick of Tyson Jackson as most. Due to the weakness of the class overall and the risk involved in all of the top guys.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126095)

I restate over and over again that history demonstrates that what I'm saying is true. Your posts consist of would have could have should have.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7125973)

I completely disagree about 3-4 DE not being foundation.

The 3-4 DE has to be one of the most versatile players on the defense, with the exception perhaps only of the OLB, who has to be a passrusher but also display adequate coverage skills.

The 3-4 DE is someone who must be stout enough at the point of attack to be able to hold up blockers like a DT, but be able to get decent, consistent penetration on passing downs. Get a DE that's too one-sided, and you end up either a player you can run straight at because he's too much of a passrusher (Gilberry) or a player you can rotate your pocket towards because he puts no pressure on your QB (Shaun Smith).

Smith and Gilberry are fine players in certain situations. But Dorsey is the only player on this team that can serve as a true 3-4 DE. So we have to play mix-and-match the rest of the time because TJ isn't getting there fast enough.

Take our defense, but replace the other DE position with Campbell or Dockett from Arizona and we're a true Top 10 defense.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126001)

There's not a poster on this board that would disagree that in the 4-3 we've had for years, a DE would be worth a Top 5, and a DT would be worth a Top 5.

But now we move to a scheme where we actually REDUCE the number of hands-in-the-dirt lineman we have lining up, and all of a sudden none of the positions are worth a Top 5 anymore.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126056)

Do you think Arizona's Dockett would warrant a Top 5 pick if we knew then what we know now?

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126073)

It is clear from that game alone that Dockett's talents could have warranted a Top 5 pick.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7125966)

The 2009 draft was a gigantic FAIL, and 3-4 DE isn't foundation.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7125984)

It's important, but it damn sure isn't top 5 draft pick important. That draft was a giant piece of shit.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126021)

You're kind of dumb if you can't look at the draft and see that 3-4 DEs aren't top 5 picks.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126037)

Before Tyson Jackson, who was the last top 5 3-4 DE? Nothing to back it up, LOL.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126069)

Are you going to point out all those 3-4 DEs that were taken top 5?

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126076)

it's incredibly difficult to scout for. There are almost no defenses in college football that offer that position in a way that NFL teams use.

You'd either be selecting a DE with elite size or a DT with elite agility, and hope you can coach the guy up.

It's too much of a risk that teams prefer to take later in the draft. But that doesn't mean players can't be worth a Top 5 selection for that position. It's just a gamble if you do.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126066)

LOL, it was Arizona's awesome D that got them there!!!111one

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126083)

Well, let's just say you've kind of shown your opinion on the draft to be pretty worthless.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126081)

No, that isn't why. It's because teams don't value that position that highly. 3-4 DE isn't a premium position.

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 7126099)

You know what kind of 3-4 end is worth top 5 picks?

Suh
Bruce Smith
Reggie White

Guys that get sacks and have the skill set to also play the 5-technique.

3 down players that dominate the run and pass game.

Boiled down, NOT Tyson Jackson.

Disclaimer: I wasn't as pissed about the pick of Tyson Jackson as most. Due to the weakness of the class overall and the risk involved in all of the top guys.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126112)

You get it.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126116)

Right or wrong, your claims that my opinion is worthless don't carry a lot of weight when one considers your performance in this thread.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126126)

That's neither comprehensive nor nuanced. It's you throwing darts at a board to try to a) justify a bad draft pick and b) explain why teams usually don't spend top 5 picks on that position. You're drowning, son.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126117)

LOL

You do understand he just made the argument that a 3-4 DE can warrant a Top 5 pick, after you've spent half the thread arguing that this can't be true...

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 7126129)

LOL

You just compared Tyson Jackson to Reggie White.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126128)

You haven't rebutted anything I've argued on the importance of a 3-4 DE.

I'd keep making my case, but I kind of need something to respond to.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 7126130)

When?