Thanks. That is where I'm at.

No, it's not easy. But you HAVE to get production out low income guys to have a decent team in a salary cap sport. Herm did not do that. Herm ****ing sucked shit. His team that he built sucked shit. He did not do us any favors. He was horrible. You refuse to admit it.

The QB thing, I don't know why you're hung up on it. Herm had to do something. He blew a third rounder on a guy that was horrible. Won 0 NFL games ever. Dorsey spent 2 seconds on a guy that is servicable. Either one is very good, but to act like Herm did the better thing is just absurd.

This must be where you and I disagree. The roster that he filled out was shit. He had dudes that flat out couldn't play at a lot of positions. We are looking at a competent personnel guy fill out the Chiefs in 3 years after an abysmal season. Look at the depth on the Chiefs team vs what it was in 08. It's not even funny. Herm hit on some guys. Whoo hoo. Any personnel guy can hit on some guys. Herm just filled the roster with complete hogshit outside of your 10 guys or whatever number you want to pick and say, "LOOK AT WHUT THE HERMZ DID, GUIZ". The team was shit.

Herm found a few guys, sure. But pointing to those guys as the basis for telling me I'm absurd for saying he wrecked the franchise is complete and utter shit. As as been pointed out, any football guy can come up with a few dudes, even the master of team trashing Pioli. Finding 6 guys that are good and a few more that belong on a roster does not excuse the complete and utter ****-up he dragged this franchise through. Are ways good teams turn the roster over and the good teams don't go 2-14.

Sure, not going out and over-spending on free agents is a good thing. I'm not saying he should have. You keep thinking I am, but I'm not. You can find FA's that have VALUE. Similar to a draft prospect, you can look at tape of a FA, and say I can work with that in my system. They don't have to be stars, but they have to outperform their contract. That is how good teams run FA's, save for Green Bay that never brings anybody in.

Herm ****ing failed miserably at personnel because he could not bring in an FA that was worth a shit. Sure he ran 120 or whatever the number was off UDFA's through here and all that yielded....Dantrell Savage. Let's not pretend he didn't take a bunch of swings and whiffs. Like that goddamned UDFA WR that he wanted to run the option for him (**** Herm. Seriously.).

Herm failed miserably at constructing a roster that could be competitive. You can whine about DV, despite the remarkably higher number of guys that went on to play 3 years than Herm had. You can whine about the cap, that he had 3 years to fix. You can whine about Herm being misunderstood and that the ENTIRE NFL was missing the boat on "good" players like Tank Tyler and Turk McBride. You can whine about having to turn the roster over, despite other teams doing it and not being a ****ing joke. But the bottom line is this:

tl;dr Herm failed at building a roster that was even remotely close to competing. **** Herm.

Romeo was a puppet of the Pioli Reich. I have many many Pioli rants on this website. But you keep bringing up Romeo. Romeo wasn't the problem Pioli was. In quite the similar vein Herm was the problem because Herm was ****ing horrible and made the franchise a completely uncompetitive ****ing joke.

I even said in my initial post that you think is absurd that Pioli was technically worse. But it didn't matter nearly as much because Herm had already made the ****ing franchise a joke. A mother****ing joke. Our Chiefs. A joke.

Herm set the Chiefs franchise back 10 years.

For someone on this board to still defend him is disgraceful.

This. If here were a good talent evaluator he'd have compiled enough talent to win far more than 2 games after 3 years of building a team. He found 6 good players and a handful of average dudes and left like 40 spots filled with complete shit.

If he could evaluate talent, he'd have been able to find some cheap guys to fill some of those holes.

It is appalling to me that anyone would call his time here anything other than catastrophic.

Really Herm had two good draft picks... Charles and Tamba. And with both of these players Herm had no clue how to maximize their potential.

After Charles and Tamba, Herm's next "successes" were Bernard Pollard (a journeyman player who has bounced around to multiple teams in his career), Dwayne Bowe (a few good seasons, otherwise an underachieving player), Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert who all eventually became expendable/not worth big contracts to retain.

That isn't a great draft track record... especially when you look back at the 2008 draft when Herm had TWELVE freaking draft picks, including 2 first rounders and three third rounders.

It also bears noting that zilla insists that Herm demanded to go young. Yet he stuck with LJ after he ****ing killed him for EVERY SINGLE SNAP until he got hurt and couldn't go anymore and they went went from 3 YPC to 5YPC when Charles stepped on the field with the same shitacular talent.

Herm the great talent evaluator couldn't get Charles on the field to even spell LJ for a few snaps during his vaunted youth movement.

Herm was a ****ing joke.

So now we're not giving credit for draft picks that became too good that they wanted an expensive second contract? That sounds reasonable.

So you bring up one example where they didn't start a rookie over a pro bowl, 27 year old RB as your example of not committing to a youth movement? Herm also went with Tony Gonzalez and Brian Waters. But that's a small blip compared to all the veterans that were slashed.

That's a little harsh. I'd probably call all those guys good draft picks. Even conceding those, the rest of the team is just a giant heap of hot garbage. That is inexcusable for the guy whose ONLY redeeming qualities were personnel. Even if you want to point to his mediocre drafting and call it "good".

If he were so good at personnel could he not look at practice and say, "This little firecracker can run. Let's get him 8 of LJ's carries because he is running at 3 YPC".

Just because you run a huge number of young guys out there doesn't mean you know WTF you are doing.

But I wrote a goddamned novel 3 posts above and you choose to fight me on this?

EDIT: It was like 6 posts sorry.

Im not going to hash this but he also had some nice hits early and late in drafts. Over rated is a generic term but he was at least above average regarding talent evaluation for a HC.

10 years? What a ****ing joke.

Look at the roster I showed above which is what Herm left behind. A strong 2009 offseason where we draft Sanchez (average, but still a mile better than what we had). $57M to bring in 3 or 4 bonafide quality starters. And hitting on 1 or 2 other draft picks, and that team is very competitive in 2009 for a legit coach, which Herm was not. If Reid and Dorsey joined forces in 2009, they could have easily turned that team into a decent team by year 1.

Wrong.

They were not good enough to justify expensive second contracts.