finga poppin each otha's asshoes

Let the old English 8's flow

That's the big thing. Kitchen is an enabler. Not to mention a bad playcaller (ol coach last year said kitchens was taking credit for Ken zampeses work. Mayfield can't have a players coach. He needs a tough coach who can let baker be baker, but also discipline him. I knew baker was doomed after watching kitchens' piss poor response to bakers childish antics against hue and the Bengals last year. Hilarious, but childish.

Baker was more polished in college. The college passer rating stats are pretty good evidence of this.

Pat is probably the most talented guy to ever play QB, so the ceiling on him is off the charts. He would have been a #1 pick if he played for a blue blood school, I am certain of that one. But Pat was not a final product after only 3 years in college.

The redshirt year in Kansas City was really good for Mahomes. Allowed him to heal his body after playing through injuries for years. Allowed him to learn a hell of a lot from Andy Reid, the other coaches, and Alex Smith.

Agree with you there. Nagys dad said the whole TT stigma was the one thing that scared everyone off just enough. He plays at OU and he is the #1 overall pick and we still have shit at QB in KC.

What's scary is I think Mahomes is going to keep getting better. It will get to the point where the Belichicks of the world cannot throw anything at him that he hasn't seen. And unlike some of the guys that have mastered beating NFL defenses as they got older (Brees/Brady/Manning), Mahomes has no physical limitations when a play breaks down. He's Aaron Rodgers with a much better attitude/personality. Unlimited ceiling.

Browns are in the beginning stages of a meltdown IMHO and Kitchens will be fired soon if they keep losing. OL will not be fixed overnight. There are QBs no matter how messy the pocket or how often the pocket breaks down they stay laser focused down field and can still throw with accuracy. Baker is NOT one of those Qbs and never will be IMHO.

Baker MUST have a pristine clean pocket at all times or his anxiety just takes over and he just SUCKS !! And most of the time with QBs who suffer with CPD(collapsing pocket syndrome) their SUCK never goes away.:shrug:

You are either born with BIG BRASS WRECKING BALLS or Daisy BBs when it comes to playing QB in the NFL and so far Baker this year has been shooting his Red Ryder gun.:D

Baker had a bad OL at OU for awhile and came up with big play after big play in spite of those issues, the size of his nuts notwithstanding. He also had OL problems last year and still produced big plays and led his team to more wins than the Browns earned in the last five years. His two biggest issues this year are his OL play, which has been historically bad, and his OC/HC.

He needs to stop trying to do too much; if the OL will only give him 2 seconds to throw the ball, then he needs to just take the 2 seconds, throw short and work the sticks. Lean on the running game which has been decent with N. Chubbs. He's trying to hit homeruns, which is admirable, but unrealistic with the OL and the play-calling he's been working with.

From Week 9 through Week 17 of the 2018 season, only Patrick Mahomes, Ben Roethlisberger and Matt Ryan had more touchdown passes than Baker Mayfield’s 19. Only Mahomes, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson had a higher Adjusted Yards Per Pass Attempt than Mayfield’s 8.65, and no passing offense was better, per Football Outsiders’ DVOA (opponent-adjusted efficiency metric) than Cleveland’s.

Tempo is another issue. Last season, per Football Outsiders, the Browns ranked fifth in average seconds per offensive play — in other words, using pace to dictate to a defense and to prevent that defense from substituting personnel and creating the situational advantages. This season, the Browns rank 20th, and they’ve gone from 26.99 seconds to 29.05 seconds per offensive play. Adding to the problems, in spite of taking longer to snap the ball, the Browns are using significantly less pre-snap motion, taking away a key to deciphering the defense. The Browns used a lot more pre-snap motion last year, giving Baker a lot more information on the defensive scheme prior to each snap.

The tape backs this up conclusively, as do the stats. Per Pro Football Focus, Mayfield has completed 67.9% of his passes with three touchdowns, two interceptions and a passer rating of 92.3 on pass plays in which he’s in the pocket less than 2.5 seconds. On longer-developing plays in which he’s in the pocket 2.5 seconds or more, he’s thrown for no touchdowns with three interceptions, and he has a passer rating of 48.0. Through the first three games, Mayfield has been involved in longer-developing plays 51.7% of the time.

Bottom line, Baker can be accurate and efficient, IF someone calls the correct plays, IF more pre-snap motion is involved, and IF the OL plays even marginally better.

Those are the facts, Jack...

That's alot of ifs. Too many to call him a good NFL QB. Looks like a trend towards Dalton city..

So it’s Kitchens fault that Baker always wants to roll out to his right at the first sign of pressure?

I’m not saying Kitchens isn’t part of the problem, but to pretend that it’s all on him is flat out wrong.

Kitchens sucks but most of the blame goes on Mayfield. Terrible pocket presence.

Cantfield sucks.

I think there must be some truth behind the fired coaches claiming that Kitchens was not the real architect of that offense last year. His playcalling has looked pretty incompetent after he fired the other guys.

Dorsey ignored what Andy Reid has done all of his career (build the trenches) and got himself a small corner with injury issues, then traded for a headache WR. It’s his fault the Browns don’t have tackles worth a shit.

Oh and that OL he drafted..Austin Corbett? That guy is a backup and he was taken inside the top 35 picks.

Dorsey hires Kitchens, drafted Mayfield and made all of the other personnel moves.

He was depicted as much more than he really is. Andy is the reason for that still is to this day.