Sorry, Billay. I'm not avoiding you, I'm just knee deep in ****tards at the moment.

Could you post that question again, and the post you quoted so I can see the context? It doesn't make a lot of sense standing alone.

last 4 drafts 11 2nd rounders have made a pro bowl so far...

11/128 picks have made a pro bowl...

the drafturbators #1 flaw is they expect FAR too much from 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Honestly, I'm not going anywhere. I'm a Chief for life. But it's frustrating as ****. And while everyone piles on OTW and Hamas, I can totally relate to being so passionate about this team that my blood boils sometimes. The only difference between us is I say **** it and don't click submit, but they usually do. I won't fault them for that. And I'm not saying you are, I'm just sayin'. :p

Your probably right because I get on here so infrequently that i mix your posts up with ROR. Sorry my bad.

they are passionate about hating Pioli, not being Chiefs fans.

I just read an old thread of yours, Phil.

You have a lot of balls calling me out, my friend.

Teams do. Look at Green Bay. Look at Atlanta last year. New Orleans was shit not too long ago. That wasn't a one year turn around ala GB, and ATL, but recent history says teams can turn it around and do it quickly.

Now, I'll give you that KC was much different from those teams, but that's why I gave them 3 instead of 1.

As always, just my opinion. :shrug:

I just read an old thread of yours, Phil.

You have a lot of balls calling me out, my friend.

Understandable.

My question is while i'm not excited about the moves Pioli has made if you think about it this way. Since this time last year Pioli has added Chambers, Jones, Lilja, Berry, McCluster and Asamoah. I would say thats a significant upgrade in talent despite totally sucking year one.


Also Weis and Crennel.

Baltimore has never had the QB to beat Brady, Manning or Big Ben. That has been their biggest problem this decade. Plenty of talent but not at the most important position.

Looks like someone went for the personal insult after realizing they'd had their ass handed to them in the argument to me.

Sorry, JPB. Mowing the "yard"--biggie, such is life in the country--trumped all this afternoon.

It's accepted by the vast majority of this board that Pioli glaringly underperformed in his first year on the job. Some have decided to provide him with an "evaluation year."

I have not. I think that's a bullshit mulligan. We paid for the best, so I expect for him to live up to the hype.

As I've stated, I think the notion that the team he inherited was devoid of talent gets WAY overplayed on this site. It's simply not true. He had some very important pieces in place: LT, WR, DT, CB, RB (which was, admittedly, a bit of a surprise).

In short, he had a VERY young team, with significant resources devoted to a 43 scheme. Pioli scrapped the entire project. Fine. But he needed to be right.

After turning over a significant portion of the roster, he yielded surprisingly paltry results. Oh, meanwhile bringing in the albatross known as Matt Cassel.

From where we were in Jan. '09, I think expecting to make a playoff run (note: just playoffs, not SB) in '11 would have been perfectly reasonable. And I'm holding to that position.

If you want to ride into town and prove to everyone how smart you are, talking big and instituting the secret society Midwest, that's fine. Just be right and get results. And I want to hold our GM to this standard.

You read any thread that I posted and I don't care..This place doesn't define me at all....It does you though .......I'm here because I'm a NFL/Chief Fan and that's it. Hey I've posted ridiculous posts more then once but I always knew what it was.......I don't think you got that game. I could be wrong.....but even if I am ...well Fuk you! Got It.....


PhilFree:arrow:

After turning over a significant portion of the roster, he yielded surprisingly paltry results. Oh, meanwhile bringing in the albatross known as Matt Cassel.

The albatross was our O-line and LJ.

From where we were in Jan. '09, I think expecting to make a playoff run (note: just playoffs, not SB) in '11 would have been perfectly reasonable. And I'm holding to that position.

Agree 1000%

Again, I was correct with my post. You keep overlooking that. You also ignore that the thread pattern continued after that:

That's where that line of posting has ended, at least for now, in that thread. Not where you finished it in a stupid attempt to make it look as if I was backing away.

Then again, given that it's you, I'm sure that's a surprise to nobody that you'd pull such a pathetic stunt.

And I've given him credit for the moves I think he deserves credit for.

Chambers fell into his lap. I'm not going to give him credit for picking a guy up on waivers because the two teams ahead of him passed. It was a no-brainer and worked out for 2009. I personally don't expect the same level of production in 2010, but I hope I'm wrong.

TJ was a good signing for the money. But he's not a long-term solution.

I hope the Lilja signing works out, but I'm concerned about his knees, and that we're apparently going to play him out of position.

I've done nothing but praise the selections of Berry an Asomoah all weekend.

You know where I stand on McCluster.

I also think Jackson will improve this year and be a decent player. Certainly not worth the third overall pick but will help the defense in the run game. The point i'm trying to make is I don't think Pioli is as bad as some of us make him out to be and he's not as good as some think.

You did back away, and it doesn't surprise me that you think you're right.

As much of Pioli's man juice as you've swallowed, I can understand why you'd defend him (or poorly attempt to) at all costs.

Two years in, and with one of the easiest schedules in recent memory, there's no reason not to win 8 games.

You just want to make excuses for when it doesn't happen. Gotta protect your boy.

Fair enough.

Go have another drink Phil, and make sure you duck this time when the wife goes for the haymaker.

Right.

But whether it's Grbac, Boller, Troy Smith or even Flacco, they've been unable to get over the hump.

Flacco, IMO, is becoming more and more like Cassel each and every day.

Give him four first round offensive lineman, a first round RB, bring in Boldin and Stallworth, then hope he produces.

it amazes me how butthurt some people get just because they think NFL draft sites are legitimate sources

Yeah I wish I'd never posted that exchange...My bad and nobody elses....So what's your point? You don't have one...you're just an internet ...not even tough guy...but a pussy....got it...boy..eeee.! Fuk you pussy!

PhilFree:arrow:

No worries. Life happens. I understand that. OTW just wanted to use it to twist things. That's the kind of asshole he seems to be.

It's a silly notion, regardless of whether the "vast majority" has come to that conclusion. I pointed out that this is what would quite possibly happen very early on in my tenure here. The problem is that you, as Chiefs fans, are so immersed in the team that you can't see just how much of a trainwreck you really had here. As bad as you thought it was, it was even worse when looking from the outside.

That's an even sillier notion. He came in late, had to use scouts who'd been looking for 4-3 prospects when he wanted to run a 3-4, got the late batch of coaching choices, was stuck with a pick that he didn't want and couldn't move, and had to get rid of shitheads like LJ. Frankly, if you want to find a place to kill Pioli, I'd start there. Keeping LJ when he had the chance to dump his ass for free was a huge mistake, and I stated my opinion to that effect at the time.

It wasn't overplayed at all. Hell, even the positions your claiming were in place clearly demonstrated that they were not. The DT position, which was for a 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4, was a position of much struggle in 2008. How that's supposed to be "in place" is a mystery for the ages. As for WR, when the guy shows up 20+ pounds heavy, is lazy and gets suspended, I don't see how that's really fitting the notion of being in place.

No such significant resources existed.

He doubled the win total after trading away the only known true "threat" the team had on offense and converting the defense from a 4-3 to a 3-4. That's only paltry if you're looking for reasons to complain. As for Cassel, I love how you all have thrown him away after a season in which the offense sucked like Mega Maid around him for much of the season.

I've already demonstrated how ridiculous your position is. Rehashing it will be a waste of time, because your argument isn't rational.

Yes, you want to hold your GM to a standard that hasn't been met in over a decade, and to call anything less incompetence. That's ridiculous on your part. Now, suddenly, you're downgrading to "playoffs", after you used to make fun of those who'd have been happy with 8-8 or first round of the playoffs. That should make you re-think your positions, but it probably won't.

Totally understandable. Me too.

This is no offense to any of them, they're critical posters but can't say I blame them. Hamas, OTW and even Dane they express truth when it comes to this team, but it's the truth part that is hard to swallow. I try to look at the bright side of this team, not saying they're negative or anything, but they're willing to detect the flaws of this team from the inside out and give their takes. I can respect that because it enables me to see things differently coming from their point of view. Hey, each have there own approach right? But thats the planet and thats what makes it great is different peoples thoughts, opinions and personalities.

I give them credit for just letting it out and expressing their thoughts and frustration. A lot of what they say relates to why this team has failed over the years. They may not be right all the time, but at times I can see how they are. So I could get what they're saying from time to time. Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to kiss butt, lol just saying things the way I see it.

Personally, I think they're horseshit.

From Don Banks and Peter King at SI (both of whom I enjoy their normal insight) to douche****s like Walter or Scott Wright, they're a bunch of Mel Kiper wannabe's.

I've said for years that Walter is a ****ing dumbass and Scott Wright proved to me this year (because I went on his "supposed" chat), that he's as ****ing dumb as the granite countertops in which my laptop currently lies.

It's hilarious to me that guys like Mecca, with his absolutes, passive-aggressive bullshit and never-wrong attitude, treat these sites like the ****ing Dead Sea Scrolls.

Thats their fatal flaw no doubt about it. I agree about Flacco as well.

I didn't back away, and Deez just apologized out of courtesy, despite his having done nothing wrong. You really are an idiot. Do you have to mark your shoes "left" and "right"?

He apologized for mowing the lawn, dumbass. He wasn't conceding to you, you ****ing dolt.

All you've done is make excuses and claimed you've won the argument.

You're a delusional troll.

Damn, never seen anybody put it like that...weird thing is that its kind of true.
Posted via Mobile Device

You claimed I backed away. I didn't. He left the thread. He apologized, needlessly, for that, in this thread.

Is there a bottom of just how low you go on the intelligence ladder?

I'm not suddenly anything. But common sense suggests a progression.

Dorsey was a rookie in 2008, and he was being completely misused. The entire defensive front was young as hell, but they were all day-one picks. There was absolutely legit. talent there. Pioli wanted to go in a different direction, and thus there is a big setback. Many saw this as a mistake.

Flowers and Carr are above average CBs, and Page and Pollard had demonstrated a hint of promise. LB was an obvious weakness.

On offense, Bowe was looking like an emerging star, and Albert had a very solid rookie year. Most of the more knowledgeable posters on this site hated LJ and were calling for Charles (and a host of others) to be getting far more carries.

Your outside perspective is, frankly, not very informed to the details of our team. This is understandable because my knowledge of the Bills, for example, is fairly shallow.

But the difference is that I'm not over at BillsPlanet preaching from the rooftops.

You seem like a thoughtful, intelligent poster, but you've overplayed your hand with the Pioli defense (which I know you'll claim it's not) and analysis of the Chiefs.

You can put down your daddy's keyboard now.....Dane? No man it's written down in a draft bible somewhere...Dane?


PhilFree:arrow:

Jesus, you're ignorant.

This has nothing to do with him mowing the lawn.

It has everything to do with you getting owned, an d having no rebuttal, so you resorted to the "quality poster" bullshit.

You couldn't debate your point because he tore your argument apart, so you resorted to a personal attack. You backed away from your argument.

You did, however, pick it back up later, and continued to get owned.

Jesus.

If this were a prize fight, it would have been called rounds ago.

Changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 is not a mistake. It's a system change. AS for the legit aspect of that line... Hali? Tyler? McBride? Come on, now....

Calling both Flowers and Carr above average is certainly questionable. Pollard needed to go, and much of this site understood that. If he succeeds elsewhere, that's good for him. He wasn't working out in Kansas City.

So it's Pioli's fault that Bowe showed up overweight and then took proscribed drugs to lose the weight? It's the fault of Pioli and company that Bowe has problems catching the ball, and that wasn't an issue before Pioli arrived? As for Albert, I believe it was Milkman who addressed that in the past, so I'll leave that for him.

It's funny, because I apparently knew enough to be pegging the team's win total at no more than 5, to talk about how the team would struggle because of the problem at NT, to want Pioli to get rid of LJ, etc...

When I first got here, I came and offered some opinion about how Pioli might run things, since he was coming from New England. Then the Cassel trade and the Sanchez pick in the draft happened, and a portion of you people lost your freakin' minds. I'm not preaching from the rooftops. I'm simply refuting some of the abject stupidity that Mecca, OTW, Hamas and company have been putting forth. I don't think Pioli is perfect, and I don't expect him to be. Some of you people have gotten to the point where you'd bitch if he shook twice after pissing, because you'd insist that 3 times was the magic number, and you'd insist the magic number was 2 if he shook it 3 times.

I claim it's not because it's not. Hell, from my position as a Patriots fan, it's better for my emotional well being if Pioli sucks ass, because that would make me more confident in the job that Belichick is doing since I could give him more credit for the past success. My interest in Pioli's moves is simply observational in nature. When I think he's screwed up I post it, and I'll continue to do so.

And you drop another step on that ladder.

I didn't get owned. I destroyed his argument by pointing out the statistical reality. He then fell back on a "2 wins" defense as if it was manufactured out of thin air when that was the Chiefs win total the year before Pioli's arrival. I even went to 3 wins afterwards, and that netted only one more team to his claim. 4 win seasons seem to be the general cutoff for contention in less than 4 years.

Face it, dipshit. Deez made a terrible argument.

You're an idiot AND you're wasting my time.

I took you off of ignore because, as could be easily predicted, you decided to drop in on draft weekend.

Seriously, nothing you say here matters.

No one gives a flying **** about you, your opinions - nothing.

You're a ****ing troll with absolute no good intentions, whatsoever.

So with that said, please stop posting. If not, go **** yourself with a dildo that has the image of Bill Belichick in the place you can shove it the furthest.

Au revoir, Douchetard.

LMAO

There's another county heard from.

Sorry, JPB. The votes from the voices in your head don't count.

I'm hurt, really. Your opinion meant so much to me. On a positive note, at least you figured it out about the offensive linemen. You have yourself a great week now!

I don't mind debating picks with other fans of the team but really the last thing anyone around here needs is JPB protecting Pioli like he's the baby Jesus, the act is old man.

I like this saying.... thanks Dane.

You would certainly know about an act getting old.

Isn't it bad enough that we have 1 Hootie running around without another one?

Talk about 360. He was being pretty cool until the second round, then he went back to being a ratard.

Draft time is when he channels his true tard because he likes to be annoying to the posters he doesn't personally like.

It's funny and reeruned all at once.

LMAO

When he speaks, I picture Snow singing informer, like he's just gotta let us know about Pioli being the shit.

I wasn't there and I don't really care but you post like you're in a vacum. You don't think he'll read this? And if you don't care then...no...this is passive aggressive......after most folks have gone to bed? Honestly you do have so much more to offer then that. But you fuk it up...It's O.k. to be smart ...but not at the expense of being stupid! Wait...What? LOL


PhilFree:arrow:

Do you think I care if he reads it?

Hootie doesn't personally like me, me on the other hand it's a damn forum, it's not life. Hell I get busy and don't post for a couple weeks and I get a thread about where I'm at.

And yes I can logically talk about any player the Chiefs drafted, I never once had a fit or said the guys sucked ass.

I'm not sure about all that but O.K....Give me an earnest evaluation of McCluster...No shit..I value your opinion. I read alot more then I post..so.

PhilFree:arrow:

Look now I don't think he sucks. He's a hybrid guy who doesn't have a real position, I figured he was a somewhere between a 2nd or 3rd round prospect that would go to a good team looking for a toy.

I'm sure he'll have a nice year here and put up some big plays and fans will like him, like I said as a straight up player I have no issues with him.

My only real critical aspect of the pick is, how much does a shiny toy help when you don't have the basics covered?

Fair enough. My next question is Do you think there were really the players available at #36 to pass on such a playmaker? Could the players we could have drafted to cover the basics really provided more then a playmkaer like McCluster? McCluster wasn't somone I thought we'd pick so I'm not even saying he was my pick. But to me the OLBs that we needed were already gone. The NTs are all suspect....So what's your take on that?

PhilFree:arrow:

Well firstly every single NT prospect will have flaws, it's hard to be a perfect prospect when being a big fat lazy ass is part of the job description.

But it could be pretty easily argued that guys like Kindle, Misi, Washington etc would mean more to a team in our position.

If Misi made it to #50 and we took him that would have fit my thoughts. I thought he would last that long even with all the 3-4 teams. Kindle is a wait and see because of his knee. For his prototypical size his production wasn't as good as I would want either. Washington..ILB... meh.

PhilFree:arrow:

the issue with injuries in college isnt how many games they missed in the past as much as how the injuries will effect how many games that player might miss in the future.

Moeaki had broken bones, not ligament damage.

you arent alone on that.
If I remember correctly, you wanted no part of us even claiming Chambers at the time because of the cost involved, same with Thomas Jones.

Am I remembering correctly or should I look it up?

there is a difference between fat and lazy.

...

I would MUCH rather have Dexter over any of those guys TBH.

If Orakpo didn't kick every ass he faced in his rookie year (like he did in college at Texas) Kindle wouldn't be thought of so highly IMO, the guy is a terrible run defender and is a highly under-productive sack artist. Add to that his injury problem that could cause him to loose what might be looked at as his biggest strength and what you have is a boom or bust guy with a low ceiling IMO.

**** KINDLE at 36, I would have been pissed if we took him TBH

Excellent points Boss. I will disagree a bit with Kindle. He had a situation with his knees that had some teams taking him off the board altogether, but some teams having no problem with it. It's one of those situations. He could require microfracture surgery in four years, or never have a problem his entire life, even after playing a decade in the NFL. To me, it should have been worth the pick in the second. He showed the ability to rush and drop back in coverage.

Yes, a guy like Misi, once he dropped the DE college weight, was just as athletic, but he was never asked to do that in college. Potential versus production.

A close call between the two, and one that should have been considered by the Chiefs at that point.

McCluster was lasting no longer than the second round based on his extensive big play abilities, and it's really not a bad pick as they had a definite need at the slot and if they can give him the secret weaon treatment and he actually pans out in that regard, he'll be a fine pick.

In actuality, I don't think that either Misi or Kindle was that high on the Chiefs board. They brought back Vrabel and Hali was pretty darn productive. You don't draft a backup in the second round, and both Kindle and Misi were going to be that for the Chiefs at that point.

Them actually starting Mike Vrabel is really sad.

Im sure Ill get flamed again for this but I am actually quite happy that we have a situation like the one we have with Studabaker. His workout times were as good as any guy at the combine last year or this and he has been under the wing of one of the best linebacker to play in this system in the last decade or two to learn the intricacies of the position.

I think that when he is ready and takes over the spot, he will be a "unexpected star" of sorts and will seemingly "come out of nowhere" when in essence he has been part of (brace yourself) "the process"

To me, signing Vrabel to a 1 year deal was a sign that read something like "we really like Studabaker, but we feel he isn't quite "there" yet and we would like to see him learn some more from "our guy" while we can, because we feel the kid has a long term future here.

Studebaker is a tomato can in this system.

A complete tweener who lacks the speed to either rush the passer or drop back in coverage on the outside.

I like his hustle on special teams, but I'd rather see him inside versus outside at this point. He's got the size and burst to be effective as a mike in a 3-4. I don't think he's got the skill set to be effective on the exterior.

Andy is one of the finest small school defensive ends in the country who has put up monster numbers the past two seasons for the Thunder of Wheaton (IL) College. He was named a first-team All-American by Football Digest following the 2006 season, and a first-team preseason (2007) All-American by CDS. Unfortunately, his 2007 season was cut short by a season-ending foot injury that required surgery, and he was not healthy enough to take part in the post-season all star games or the Combine. However, he came back on 4-18-8 to put up one of the most phenomenal pro day workouts ever for a defensive end. Had he been at the Combine, he would have placed first among DEs in the short shuttle (4.14), the 3-cone drill (6.81), the broad jump (10'7"), the vertical jump (36.5") and placed third in the forty-yard dash (4.60). His short shuttle and 3-cone numbers are equivalent to the best numbers put up by DBs at the Combine. The buzz is very late, but very loud for this small school stud.

stick with the facts, sir.

Not bad for 6'3 255

I know his production has to be taken with a grain of salt because of being at a small school but in 12 games he had 25 tackles for loss and 18 sacks!

heres a link for the stats/times in case you think I pulled them out of thin air.

http://cdsdraft.com/profile.php?id=1412

:spock:

He's a 4.6 guy who was super productive at rushing the passer in college and you want to make him a mike?

That's awesome he's 2 tenths faster than a guy we just drafted to play safety...

Yes we got an A+, i'm so happy!

Now to put an order in for play-off tickets, then superbowl.

That picture of Tony Moeaki makes him look like the missing link.

Evolutionist's unite!

...and what happened when the kid got put on the field?

He had two interceptions and broke the game open for us for one of the most improbable wins I can remember.

Mecca, you remember that game. You made a crazy claim before it. Shit, I can never talk shit about WPI again because of that game...and there was nothing I liked more than talking some good ole shit about WPI. I should be pissed at Andy for taking that from me. (funny though, they have actually done some good work since then ...a couple travesties aside.)

One was a gift, the other was a good break on the ball just outside the endzone that he almost returned all the way before "the Studabaker ran out of gas"

I think that once this kid is ready to take over full time, he will be a big weapon for us.

Hey maybe he can play, I really don't say much about that, anything is better than Vrabel being out there, my comment was more questioning what we're gonna do with a 4.8 safety.

If we were gonna do that we coulda just picked Myron Rolle even he's faster than that and hey he's smart.

I bet we felt he would quit football prematurely if he felt the future wasnt there for him early on.

Honestly, I still think that either Page/Morgan locks down the SS spot for the long term.

Morgan is coming up on a make or break year and this is about when most guys that are informed about him expected him to start making strides after being so inexperienced.

I still think he can be a playmaker, but he has a long way to go.

Obviously, I agree about Rolle though. Ive liked him for quite some time now. He was one of "my guys"

I pretty much said a long time ago that we'd have no interest in drafting Rolle because we'd be one of the teams that would downgrade him for actually having options in life that don't involve football.

and you were probably right

I can live with it because I value ball skills in the secondary over just about everything else and I feel both Morgan and Page are much better in that category.

I would love to see Morgan show up on a mission this year to earn a starters job no matter what. That kid has immense potential.

You are hilarious. Like every team didn't pass on him at least 5x. He got picked at the very, very back end of the draft.

But yea KC was "ONE" of the teams concerned about his other interest.

I think more likely they may be concerned he isn't really that good. He was projected as a late round pick before he missed a year of football. But you already know that.

Rolle NEVER played to his level of talent. Good kid.... but never seemed as committed as he should be. They aren't drafting dumb players that don't have any other options.... they are drafting smart players that LOVE the game.

Seriously, you need to review these logical fallacies because it doesn't look like you know what they mean.