Hilarious. The Cards are in the top 5 of ticket revenue and have the highest tv ratings of any baseball team in MLB. Their loyal fans make up for their small MSA. They earned $239m in revenue to KC at $169.
http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/


The Royals get a ton of revenue sharing that gets them to that figure anyway. Nobody woul choose to have a team in KC over STL

They're also on a small Fox Sports deal. It's not like they own a network like NESN or YES!.

You're unsuccessful because your ownership is cheap and stupid. Tampa can field better teams with a payroll 2/3 of yours.

If you want to look at why the Royals aren't successful look at their inability to develop talent consistently and maintain the talent that does develop.

The Cardinals bring in tens of millions less than the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies, yet have had more success over the last ten years than all of them. They bring in less than the Cubs, who have $100 million more than the Royals, but are a worse franchise. They bring in the same as the Mets.

It's just another bullshit excuse. Eighty thousand people didn't have problems forking out hundreds to thousands every year to go to Chiefs games in the same parking lot, but 35 thousand can't afford tickets that are 10% of the cost?

When Ewing Kauffman was the owner of the Royals and the brewery was taking a machete to the team in the 70s, how many people do you think would rather have had a team in St. Louis?

When the Royals were innovators in signing and developing cost-controlled talent they were one of the model organizations in baseball. When they turned the organization into a welfare check for ownership they sucked.

OK then, by this logic Columbia MO is the same size Lawrence KS is. Ergo Mizzou should be the same baskeball market that Kansas is. Oh and they used to outrdraw Kansas in the early 80s when they were winning the Big 8 and Kansas was struggling. Proved my point right?



Cards tv deal is only small right now because they signed it early. When it comes up for renewal they'll get a good bump. I'll bet you any amount you have in the bank it will be significantly higher than what hte Royals get.



The Chiefs are a bad example because we've always struggled at the gate, save for a 10-year period with Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith. When you remove that time period, the other 40 years has been a real uphill battle to draw fans. STL Rams sold out with Warner & Faulk. Winning begets winning. And it's way easier to do in STL where there are more resources. $75m extra to spend on payroll matters and saying it doesn't is nonsense.

Hamas is spot on.

The Royals have failed because of incompetence. Nothing more, nothing less.

The Cubs have spent millions on failure. It's not what you spend, it's how you spend what you can.

This is spot on.

I have no doubt that if Kauffmann were still alive today (or had he survived into the early 2000s), the Royals would have been one of the teams at the forefront of the SABRE movement.

Royals leadership has been incredibly poor for most of the 90s and 2000s. Dayton Moore has been successful in many ways and had some significant failures as well, but no one can argue that he has been successful in getting the Glasses to open the wallets for amateur talent and increase the payroll of the major league roster. Both used to be a joke (Marlins-esque) and are at least respectable now.

Now, I'm going to sit back and watch you verbally eviscerate PB in this thread. Where's my popcorn?

You have to be intentionally blind or ignorant to not understand this.

You were looking in Prison Bitch's general direction when you posted this weren't you.

Just cut your losses here pal. Hamas will only own you worse.

You guys should be doing what the Cardinals are doing in the minor league and draft. We consistently draft in a worse position than KC but the results couldn't be any different.

Throw out player evaluations and development of players.

• KC should have a seamless transition from the minors to the majors. The Cardinals have a book called the "Cardinals Way". Its used to teach players the same way to play baseball from Single "A" all the way up to the majors.
• The minor league coaches teach the same thing as the major league coaches.
• They give the minor league's plenty of playing time in spring training. The minor leaguers get to the majors, they know the major league players, they have shared a locker room, they already know how to conduct themselfs.

If winning begets winning then the Royals wouldn't have been in this 25 year slump, dumbass. The Pirates would have also continued to run through the old NL East, and the Yankees would have never faltered even as the core four aged.

If you want to win in baseball, you need a few things: the first is a good owner. That means someone who is engaged, willing to spend but not overspend, someone who is patient but requires standards. The second thing you need is a good development system and the final is a good scouting system.

The Cardinals have all three. The Royals used to. The Yankees were fortunate enough to have it for a few years when Steinbrenner was banned from baseball, which is what allowed them to build the team that won 4/5 titles.

Right now the Royals don't have much of any of that. Like the Angels from a few years ago most of their prospects are extremely overrated. I'm not sure why that is; perhaps it's due to the national influence of Royals fans like Rob Neyer and Rany, although I doubt it. It's not a coincidence that there hasn't been a single Royals hitting prospect who hasn't disappointed when promoted to the big league club in at least five years, probably longer. Hell, Aviles is the last over-performer I can remember.

The Royals can't develop talent from within their system. Because of that, it probably appears that they can't draft. I think there is an element of truth to that (Hochevar, and a few others to lesser degrees), but it's hard to tell because a lot of that falls on the player development side.

Obviously, they Royals have spent little over the last two decades, but Kansas City has shown that they'll support a winner. Arrowhead was a ghost town in the 80s and then it became nearly impossible to get STs in the 90s. Did the nature of sports fans change in KC, or are they willing to support teams that appear competitive? KC had great attendance in the 70s and 80s. The town just didn't start hating baseball. The Chiefs are the perfect example.

If you put Tampa's org in Kansas City they'd draw 2.5 million fans a year.

Ultimately, you're looking for excuses that make it easier to sleep, b/c the assumption that St. Louis has all of these ingrained advantages is just a fantasy. The Cardinals have more success than the Royals because they have better ownership, and that ownership has built a better franchise. There isn't a regional or financial roadblock, and there is no such thing as a small market team, only small market owners.

Wow, Gast picked a good night for a MLB debut.

Cardinals hitters to Met pitching:

Yo' wife is my baby momma/
God Damn, Mother****a/
She's a...good dick sucka'

I'm noticing a trend. How many times did a Larussa coached team play down to its opponents talent?

No research to back up this opinion. It just seems to me that Matheny coached teams take care of business better than Larussa teams. Although they do share the same affinity for just winning series's instead of going for the sweep.:banghead:

FYP

Harvey ;)

There is some merit to this, but I think it's due to this reason:

Matheny rests players to give them a break. La Russa rested players to give the scrubs more PT. The result was that our bench players were sharp, but I felt it was very difficult to get marginal starters to play consistently, especially young players, as they were repeatedly yanked in and out of the lineup.

I'm not as concerned about the series thing. Far too often La Russa would outright punt the final game of a series or Sunday games.

Remember "Pujols and the scrubs"? Happened for years. Matheny seems to have a good feel of when to get his position players in and out of the lineup. His bullpen management has also improved, in spite of Boggsian implosions.

Overall, he's shown growth and an inability to learn to this point. I'm very pleased.

It also doesn't hurt that with the exception of Wiggington and Cruz, you don't really miss much from our bench players. Adams in the lineup instead of Holliday/Craig/Beltran, Robinson is very comparable to Jay, and the middle infielders are interchangeable.

It's still early, but this may be the most complete Cardinals team we've seen since 2004.

It's just crazy that when Holliday turned his ankle the other day, I wasn't even worried if he did miss time. Just gives more playing time to Adams.

2005 was a better team than this one. Just ran into a hot Astros team at a bad time and we got raped, by Oswalt, and Muldered.

Edmonds gets thrown out mid-AB by that one who sucks the penis Phil Cuzzi, then John Rodriguez hits a 432 foot shot that is out in every other park on Earth save for that abomination.

Those 04 05 teams were just loaded.


But, with whats coming on, all goes well, I could see the 2014 being as good.

Never take anything in the future as a given. Enjoy the team we have now and hope it stays healthy *this* year.

The Thunder should be a testament to why you can't count on the provisions the future will bring.

ROFL

I made 1 claim: the Royals could not support the payroll STL does because it is an inferior MLB market. All your bluster here fails to address my point either way. My point is either true, or false. Nobody brought up David Glass, Dayton Moore, the farm systems, etc etc. If you stick to the topic it'll greatly help the discussion we're having.


I'll stay on topic even if you won't. That's why I posted the actual data: (1) STL is top-5 in ticket revenue, and (2) they generate $75 million more in overall revenue. Did you refute either fact? Because bringing in ancillary crap into your rebuttal is irrelevant. I don't like David Glass or Moore or the stadium or our farm system or whatever. My observation on the market differences was in no way any defense of Glass although it seems you took it that way.




(Somebody above went way off the reservation and posted something about a booklet the Cardinals produce. I have no idea how that relates to an economic trade market but I only skimmed it)



Here's my challenge to you: go post on Vivos Los Birdos or any Cards site. Ask if STL is a better baseball town than KC. Just ask. See what the Cards fans say. If they all back you up and say "Same, all dependent on the owner brah", I'll concede your point. But I know they won't.

Who cares what other Cardinal fans think? That isn't relevant to the discussion. I'm sorry if I tried to support my claim with facts about the history of both franchises rather than supposition I yanked between hemorrhoids.

Whether or not the Cardinals would support a consistent loser by going to the game has no bearing on why the Royals suck. It's a non-sequitur.

I'm not responsible for your ignorance.

I wish you were. Then there was a chance for his stupidity to end some day.

Its not just a payroll thing, you guys can't develop talent pure and simple. Why has every stud prospect you've drafted in the last decade flopped? Carlos Beltran was the last prospect that you guys brought up in your system who produced at an elite level from what I can recall. The Royals organization reeks something rancid, its just bad from top to bottom, ownership,drafting,scouting, and player development is bottom of the barrel. Just look at Hosmer for example, he was supposed to be a can't miss and still failed in the Royals system. I respect you guys because you've stood by them but man you guys are playing with one arm tied behind your back, its a bad deal for ya'll.

Greinke did win a Cy Young. That said, trades like Melky Cabrera/Jonathon Sanchez & Wil Myers/James Shields have bit the Royals pretty hard.

I forgot about Greinke, I was mainly referring to all the hitting prospects who bombed. Heck other than Greinke they haven't developed any pitching as well. Like I said something is wrong with the entire franchise, not just the owner.

I'd go a step further: other than Greinke, they've been absolutely horrible at developing pitching, which I guess is the reason they traded for Shields & Davis.

Re: the Royals' system... Dayton Moore's success as a talent recruiter and developer depends on Hosmer and Moustakas doing more than show flashes. Like Alex Gordon in his early days, they have show enough to understand the hype but have struggled adjusting.

Billy Butler and Alex Gordon are well above-average major league players developed internally. Butler has succeeded basically from Day 1 (though his power has really only started to show up in HR over the past season and a half).

Gordon actually had a very nice sophomore campaign (.351/.432) before falling off the cliff for a few years and coming back on pace and living up to expectations.

He's on pace for a .325/25 HR/110 RBI/.350 OBP/.520 SLG year. Finally hitting to expectations.

I'd also point to Sal Perez, who has finally reached a full season's worth of career at-bats in the bigs and has hit .300+ while slugging in the .450 range.

But all that falls apart if one of Hosmer/Moustakas doesn't become a legitimate above-average player and the other at least average.

Using Myers/Montgomery/Odorizzi to add Shields and Davis is not a bad move, IMO. That's how a deep farm system SHOULD be leveraged.

As for the pitching prospects... John Lamb's Tommy John surgery was extremely bad luck. That was the best guy out of that group, IMO. And he looks like he might be the 1/10 guys that never comes all the way back.

They got some use out of Montgomery after he started to bust, and full value for Odorizzi.

That leaves Chris Dwyer (who actually is healthy and pitching pretty well at Omaha) and Danny Duffy (who looked very promising before TJ last year). I think they'll get good value out of Duffy as a solid No. 3 starter in the majors, and Dwyer can be a valuable trade piece, IMO.

My point:
The book still is open on the top-ranked farm system of a few years ago. It depends on Hosmer/Moustakas figuring it out and Danny Duffy coming back strong.

But yeah, some legitimate questions about the Royals minor league approach under Moore. And some questions that will stick about WHY he deviated from his draft strategy in 2010 to take Christian Colon instead of a higher upside college pitcher or high-upside high school guy.

Ankiel just tied the game against us with a 2-run homer.

I don't mind seeing him do well, I just wish it didn't come at our expense. :grr:

FYP

The injuries to half their first wave of SP prospects are not really avoidable/organization fault. But the lack of SP development under Moore will remain a question until/unless Duffy/Zimmer/Ventura change the script.

They developed bullpen pitchers at a rate that is almost alarming.

The question remains:

We know that Ankiel lost his confidence and his mechanics and that his mental issues led to the collapse, but did anyone see a specific flaw in his mechanics as well?

Lead restored. :thumb:

Frazod's reaction to our #3 hitter coming up this half inning:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I always thought release point was his issue. He just lost his release point and his confidence in letting it rip. Started trying to aim it/dart it and fell apart.

I've always known little about throwing mechanics. I had a similar "yips" moment when trying to throw breaking pitches. I started opening up way early and for a long period of time couldn't accurately throw a baseball from 20 feet away. Really got in my head.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yadier....Celebraaaate.

Somebody is not paying attention to the Royals if you think those trades are fails.

That's a winner.

Unless you pitch or coach past little league, there's little reason to study all the intricacies of pitching mechanics. At least when it comes to breaking pitches. So much weird, tiny little things (finger placement is easy, but pressure, release, when the arm pronates, how hard it pronates, elbow position when you snap it off, etc.).

Some guys just have a natural knack for it, and when they lose it, they have a really hard time finding it again. I think Ankiel was one of those guys. I was, too. I hard a hard time throwing a consistent curveball because of my motion/arm slot, but I had a pretty hard-biting slider. And that was just a natural thing I found messing around playing catch.

You really think we were going to lose this one?

Well, jury's still out on the Shields/Myers trade, but how was the Sanchez/Cabrera trade not a fail?

Because Jon Sanchez was turned into Jeremy Guthrie, who doesn't sign in KC without his excellent second half as a Royal.

There also is the whole "50 game suspension for positive PED test" thing.

Melky's a joke now and they stole Guthrie for Sanchez. Guthrie's been a stud as a Royal. It was a Cardinalesque find.

Fair points. Guthrie's been pretty good.

I would say, however, that if the Cards had traded Taveras for Shields, many Cards fans, myself included, would've been pretty angry. Guessing the Royals think they have enough offense with Butler, Gordon, Hosmer, etc.

Team needs.

The Royals desperately needed quality starting pitching to be a winning team, and so far it has worked.

Part of that is Santana and Guthrie, but part of it is also the mentality and leadership Shields has brought to the staff. I'm sure it will help when less experienced guys like Duffy and Zimmer and Ventura make their way to KC over the next two years.

Wil Myers is also NOT QUITE the prospect that Taveras is. His K issues (49 K in 139 AB at Durham, 189 K in 661 AB over the past two seasons) are going to make it hard for Myers to hit for a high average in the show with any consistency.

The Royals DO need more offense, but they needed more pitching worse.

He hasn't. He's been the luckiest pitcher in baseball. The dude's FIP is 5.59 and he's been a below replacement level starter. He's survived on an absolutely ridiculous 95% LOB percentage.

I assume that's a fangraphs number on the WAR? I looked him up last night on Baseball Ref, and they had him at 1.5 WAR this season.

Guthrie is what he is. A battler who will eat innings. He also is much more effective at Kauffman, where his FB tendencies don't hurt as much. When he does a better job of limiting walks (like he did last season after coming to KC), Guthrie can be a solid No. 3 starter (His FIP as Royal last year was around 3.90).

Prior to the start against the Angels, his FIP was sitting right around that level (3.85 by my figures).

I'm willing to throw that game out unless it becomes a trend, as Tim McClelland squeezed him all night and was basically forcing Guthrie to center the ball to call a strike. The Angels capitalized, hitting 4 solo shots.

Just a thought, but aren't there enough ****ing Royals threads here without turning the lone Cardinal thread into one?

question for you Cards fans: have you been paying much attention to the advanced stats on pitch framing that are really hot right now?

Yadier Molina, as might be expected, grades out EXTREMELY high. The run-saving value works out to the equivalent of multiple "wins" per year for an elite guy like Yadi.

It's all about positioning and reflex when receiving the ball.

Molina and his brother Jose grade out extremely high. I know the Rays are all over this - is this something the Cards org recognizes and is seeking out in other catchers?

Saw a blurb for it on Grantland, didn't read the article. Logically, it makes sense, but our system hasn't produced any worthwhile catchers other than Yadi in the last two decades.

Bryan Anderson was a complete bust and Tony Cruz isn't a ML-quality bench player, but it's cheaper than 20 games of Gerald Laird or Jason LaRue.

Gerald Laird really annoys me.

Probably because every time I watch him play, he tries to bunt for a hit. Idiot.

Oh goody, Ty Wiggington starts at 1b today.

LMAO

Looks like we have the old throw in the towel lineup today.

I made this exact point in the game thread the other day. It is correct. He's been no different than Wade Davis.

Anyone looking to watch the Cards in town on the 27-28 can now do it cheap on Groupon:

http://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-kans...city-royals-11

I'm going to one of the games at Busch. I hope you guys are ready to get your shit pushed in, 4 game sweep baby. :D

No shit. And if you are going to throw in the towel why not let Adams hit some lefty pitching?

They overpaid for Wigginton, so I think MM feels compelled to get him ABs. It's too bad that Craig can't pass at 3rd, b/c Freese is really scuffling right now, and giving him a few days to rest and sort out his swing would help.

He's hitting a ****ton of grounders right now, probably b/c he's pulling the ball instead of driving it oppo, and combined with some "meh" defense, he's been one of the worst players in the NL to this point.

Article on how the Cardinals success starts with the owners decision.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...8c93d3ffa.html

Bernie: Cards' success starts at the top


<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Cardinals GM John Mozeliak often sports a flamboyant bow tie when he goes to work at Busch Stadium, but there’s no truth to the rumor that he’s instructed team employees to call him “Branch Rickey” or “Mahatma.”

If the bow tie fits, wear it.

Rickey is among the most iconic front-office executives in baseball history, immortalized for ending baseball’s institutional segregation by signing African-American Jackie Robinson to play for the Brooklyn Dodgers.

During a lengthy and memorable run as Cardinals GM, Rickey changed the industry by developing the first modern minor-league system. He scouted and signed players who had leading roles in the five World Series championships won in the 1930s and 1940s.

The Cardinals’ ability to cultivate an immense stockpile of elite talent drew the ire of Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis, who twice ordered the release of more than 50 Cardinals minor-league players to give them a chance to play elsewhere. But other franchises soon adopted the Rickey model and put their own networks in place.

In 2013 the Cardinals’ player-development system is the buzz of baseball. The franchise is producing a trove of coveted talent, led by a procession of power-armed pitchers who come to the majors equipped with radiating fastballs.

The system has delivered nine pitchers on the current staff: Lance Lynn, Jaime Garcia, Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, Carlos Martinez, Joe Kelly, John Gast, Seth Maness and Fernando Salas. Other gold-plated pitching prospects, including Michael Wacha, are warming in the minors.

Of the 30 players who have appeared in a major-league game for the Cardinals this season, 19 were drafted and developed internally. Two others, Martinez and Salas, were signed as undrafted free agents, then raised trough the system.

Position players from the draft-alum list include Yadier Molina, Allen Craig, Matt Carpenter, Jon Jay and Matt Adams. And at Class AAA Memphis there is a potential superstar in waiting in outfielder Oscar Taveras.

So when Mozeliak wears the bow tie, he does it in a way to honor the Cardinals’ glorious past — which, as he points out, is also this team’s future. Many decades later, the Rickey Way is once again the Cardinals’ Way.

There are 30 teams in major-league baseball.

Only one, the Cardinals, could make this claim Tuesday: best record in the majors, and the highest-rated minor-league system. The Cardinals are built to win now, and they are built to last.

The person who deserves the most credit for this organizational super structure is Cardinals Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.

“Bill was a visionary,” Mozeliak said. “He made all of this possible.”

It was DeWitt who hired business-school graduate Jeff Luhnow in 2003 to bring a more enlightened, advanced approach to player evaluation.

Though ridiculed and tagged as “Harry Potter” by hardened old-school baseball types, Luhnow dramatically transformed the way the Cardinals procured young talent. The Luhnow draft picks can be found up and down the Cardinals’ 2013 big-league roster.

For his part, Mozeliak played a valuable role in closing the great philosophical divide within the organization that prompted DeWitt to fire GM Walt Jocketty after the 2007 season. DeWitt ended the Jocketty-Luhnow power struggle by choosing Luhnow, who became Houston Astros GM in 2012.

Taking over as GM after the tumultuous 2007 season, Mozeliak brokered a peace accord between the remaining warring factions and secured the necessary cooperation of manager Tony La Russa.

Later, when Luhnow became overly aggressive in pushing for select draft picks to be promoted quickly through the system, Mozeliak restructured the setup to put a firewall between the draft side and the development side.

Many have helped make this system what it is today, but the movement began with DeWitt, who hired Luhnow and expanded the franchise financial investment in scouting, drafting and international operations.

It was a bold move, given the timing of DeWitt’s decision to change the paradigm. At that time, pretty much only the bad teams preached the Draft and Development mantra. That’s all they had.

The Cardinals at the time had success on the field, sellout crowds filling the stadium, star players and the proven leadership in the La Russa-Jocketty alliance. But DeWitt saw escalating salaries, the rising cost of veteran pitching and an organization that had become too reliant on acquiring talent via trades and free agency.

“From a strategic standpoint, the organization shifted gears,” Mozeliak said. “Bill was the one that was very aware that we did not have a sustainable model. He believed that for us to have success, we had to look at this more organically than just simply ‘free-agent market, trade market.’ So he changed it.”

As the Cardinals’ catcher at the time, Mike Matheny was probably as puzzled as anybody when he witnessed DeWitt breaking up a winning archetype. And now, as the team’s manager, Matheny understands the brilliance of DeWitt’s long-range vision.

“You need some cost-controlled players,” Matheny said. “That’s what the organization is trying to do. Continue to have that young group that keeps working their way through our system. If they’re cost controlled, then it enables you to afford veteran free agents to fill the holes. That’s a great model, and they’ve been able to do that. It’s impressive.”

Despite getting walloped by injuries and the free-agent loss of Albert Pujols, the Cardinals are positioned to win for a long time. The Rickey Way is once again the Cardinal Way. And the right way.
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Descalso really pissed me off tonight. Bases loaded, bottom of the 9th, a walk wins the game against a pitcher who can't throw strikes and who walked the two previous batters and he comes out hacking.

Axford threw five pitches in that AB and none of them were strikes. Absolutely shameful situational awareness and it cost the Cardinals the game.

Now that Garcia has gone down with his annual injury to the labia in his shoulder, what do you do?

Option 1: Promote an undeserving Joe Kelly to the rotation (looks like this is the route they are going)
Option 2: Bring up Wacha
Option 3: Hope Boggs comes back from his section 8, send Rosenthal down to stretch him out, and bring him back sometime around July as a starter.

Westbrook needs to get healthy quickly, otherwise too many of our innings will be eaten by arms that aren't ready for a 200 inning workload.

FWIW, I looked up Axford's splits against us for the last three years, not including tonight:

ERA: 3.79
WHIP: 1.52

We have never hit a HR against him. Dude is the luckiest mother****er on Earth when he faces the Cardinals.

That AB was pathetic, horrendous. I don't understand why Larussa and now Matheny loves the guy. Carpenter has proved he is just as good as Descalso and he can hit. He drags the team down. WTF you swing at that shit after walking two batters..... thats criminal
Has to be Wacha. Gast isn't ready to pitch 7 innings at the ML level. Kelly was good as a starter for a while. Does anyone really trust him? Martinez isn't ready for starter duty.

But, at least we have options. Most clubs that lose 3 out of their 5 starters would be in big trouble.

Went to the game tonight. Thanks kelly and descalso

I don't know that they will move Kelly with him having thrown tonight. Last year he was a serviceable fifth starter; he's garbage in the pen. I'd like to at least give it a shot and see if he picks up where he left off in the rotation.

Boggs is back. ****.

Last night sucked. However, if you load the bases in the bottom of the 9th and can't plate a single run against the ****ing Brewers, you deserve to lose.

Wonder if they are thinking/hoping he has got his mental shit together. Then they can move Rosenthal to the rotation?

I honestly don't ever see Rosenthal going to the rotation.

He will be a starter some day. You know why????? One word. Boras

Boras can't really do anything about it.

I have a different opinion. Past history says agents have a say in, especially Boras players, whether they are a starter or reliever.

Boggs being back is why I said Kelly is your most likely fifth starter. If they were going with Wacha they would have kept Boggs down in Memphis.

Rosenthal has 100+ IP as a starter the last two years in the minors. He can do it. You've already got his service clock going.

IMO, we should send Rosenthal down to stretch him out.

Garcia can get ****ed. I said it last season, I said it the year before, I'll say it again: the guy is not physically or mentally reliable. I highly doubt he pitches again this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if he never pitches effectively again. It's a pain in the ass because we lose a competent lefty starter for much of the regular season, but if the team is going to make the playoffs, it at least frees up a roster spot for someone who won't shit all over their stirrups.

Westbrook needed an additional injection yesterday. Not great news.

FWIW, Boggs walked three and allowed two hits over 1/3 IP in his last relief appearance.

Now might be the time to try something aggressive. We have too many minor league starters in the ML pen right now. Good for October, not necessarily good for getting us there.