I agree with this. And I was screaming at my TV last year when EJ made error after error and allowed Michigan to come back and win that tourney game. :cuss:

You act as if it's some kind of crazy suggestion. Apparently, it's not.

SB Nation compares 2013-2014 Kansas Jayhawks to 2011-2012 Kentucky Wildcats.

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/29/53...hmen-2012-2014

Lol we had you beat twice last year and you know it. You're crazy if you don't think Iowa State is on the ups. Not many coaches can turn a program around as fast as Fred has, and it's even more amazing he's doing as a first time head coach.

Like I said before the season started, this year was kind of a question mark with potential... But next years team is where our biggest leap is made.

Nobody cares about ISU right now. We own you guys and will continue to do so even when it's "your year."

LMAO

But it's gonna happen soon!

It might -- and sure as shit we will hear about it over, and over, and over by Crusty.

You didn't win either of those games.

Scoreboard.

Don't worry the times coming.

I can't even get up to talk shit to Iowa State. Texas, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia Tech? Sure... But Iowa State?

I'll be waiting with bated breath.

Okay, we'll see you in 2031 or so.

We hear the same crap from KState, admit it we are your Super Bowl. And you will eventually win a game but it won't come close to evening the programs.

Oh yeah, it's coming guys. Really soon.

LMAO

How about now?






Now?




Now?

This team is damn good but gotta cut down the turnovers or someone will get them in March.

Seems if Iowa State was "on the ups", they wouldn't have gotten their ass kicked both games this year.

They're certainly better than before Hoiberg got there, but JFC, get the **** out of here with that "we had you" ****ing bullshit. Win the ****ing game. Win the ****ing game or shut your ****ing facehole. Christ almighty you dumb son of a bitch. You want to know how to win a game? Do what KU did. Grab a lead. Don't turn the ball over. Make Free Throws. You want to know how to lose a game? Do what KU did against Michigan. Turn the ball over, don't get stops, and let them win it on a last second shot. You don't see any of us saying "we should be national champions. We had Michigan and everybody knows it. And damn it, we'd have beat Louisville." Bullshit. Get the **** out of here with that ****ing horseshit.

Well then, if SB Nation said it then it must be true. There are some similarities in the players but the results are not even close yet. It's hard to argue with 38-2, National Title, consensus POY and #1 in RPI-Sagarin-Pomeroy. Right now we're 5th in Sagarin and 9th in Pomeroy. It's just too early to really compare them.

Nebraska ain't a bad team this year.

Has CBB started growing on you?

Evening programs? No it would take 100's of years if you're talking history. But going forward, Fred's taking the steps to get there. You're gonna have a nice new rival on your hands.

A rivalry consists of the "rival" beating the other team once every often.

ROFL

https://imageshack.com/a/img707/2197/q5q.gif

And they played four teams all year that were ranked. And lost twice to unranked teams.

The reason people are comparing the teams is that normally this much young talent doesn't come together so quickly. When it does... look out.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/147...mic-bomb-o.gif

@RockChalkBlog: Myles Turner on #kubball: "Coach Self told me himself that if Embiid stays it's not worth my time."

http://t.co/aHEiHEMZwX

In all fairness to Rust, Iowa State is a ranked team with good players and a damn good coach. That must be said. I was quite impressed they hung in there last night as well as they did given how big a hole we put them into early. When they tied it first play after half I was really surprised. When they cut it to 2 with a few min to go I was really surprised.


Frankly it's gotten boring running roughshod through the league. I know that's just heresy for a KU alum to say that but it's true. I look forward to the non-con and the NCAA Tourney more than the league play and it wasn't always like that. I didn't enjoy the Ted Owens days but the Larry Brown days were damn fun. We've killed the enjoyment of college basketball for our whole region.


About all that gives me solace is the fact that it's my team that wins. It keeps idiots from other fanbases (which are the rule rather than the exception) from talking shit like they do during football season.

Uhh, duh.

EJ won them plenty of games last season (including the one at ISU that preserved the conference streak). They were always going to live and die with him.

Tharpe playing like this, though, is the best PG they've had since Tyshawn. His play is making a huge difference.

Makes sense

I think he's playing pg better right now than Taylor ever did. He's not scoring as well, but in terms of playing the position, yeah

2012 UK shut teams down defensively in a way that I don't think this KU team is capable of. We're good, but not nearly that good. At least not yet, anyway.

Depends how you define PG. Tharpe is a better distributor of the ball, I'd say. Tyshawn was a way better defender and scorer, though.

Getting an offense to run at or near maximum capacity is what great pgs do. Tharpe is doing that right now.

Tyshawn could get in the lane much better, but he couldn't shoot it as well.

Nonsense. Winning never gets old. And winning to the extent that this team has and does is the furthest thing from easy.

Tyshawn took on a huge offensive responsibility for his last KU team, which is something Tharpe certainly wouldn't be capable of at this point. He was their go-to scoring option and creator often. He also practically carried that team to another B12 title and FF run (along with TRob).

It's debatable whether Tharpe is a better PG, but he's definitely not a better player than Tyshawn was overall.

Hell, if Embiid stays next year, then the entire season won't be worth the Big 12's time.

Our team is better next year, and basically everyone returns the following. Fred is really starting to get noticed and better recruits are coming every year. He's done a great job of noticing players before anyone else offers them too which has also helped him land some good recruits. We're in good hands and still only in the beginning stages of his dynasty.

Dynasty eh.

Sports are a lot more interesting when there's intrigue. That's what the NFL discovered long ago, which the other sports never have. Dynaties are boring. The intrigue of suspense is what makes March Madness so popular.

Face it: we always needed a North Carolina to our Duke. I'm insanely jealous of the new ACC hoops league. Will be pure heaven for those basketball powers while we sit out here jerking off over beating southern schools who only care about football.

You're becoming the Knowmo of CBB.

Sports are more fun when you win. Losing sucks.

Also, the B12 is statistically a better basketball league than the ACC this season. Better than everybody except the B10, actually.

You don't really believe that. If you did, then you'd want to play shit schools all the time and you would hate playing Duke, Kentucky, UNC, all the big boys. And I know you don't want that.

Becoming? He always has been.

I'm good for a laugher every now and then.

For example, I just now hit the "view post" button next to your name. :)

I'm glad you're man enough to admit you can't stop reading my posts. There are some who would deny it, but you accept my dominion over you. (Pats you on top of the head)

Disagree. Both are really good for their team, but they aren't doing the same thing. Tyshawn was required to beat people off the bounce and score or find Robinson. Tharpe is required to let Selden,Wiggins, and Embiid buzz saw ****ers. Tharpe is doing that better than Tyshawn could (I postulate). Tharpe cans do what Tyshawn did.

Tyshawn was ridiculous. Just stupid fast with the basketball. Dude was absolutely the catalyst for the offense that boasted Conner Teahan as a starter and laughed at defenders trying to stay on front of him to the national championship game. Conner Teahan as a starter. National championship game. To me that's more impressive than what Tharpe is doing. But the fact that it is a discussion is ****ing awesome. Hopefully I get to chow on crow about Tharpe for the next year and a half.

No. I'll take this over 38-10 "intrigue" every day of the week. I'd concede the point about duke unc adding to the conference and the overall experience.

Wut... the NFL is watered down and the regular season means almost nothing. Just look at the Chiefs... 9-0 didn't mean shit because you can actually go more than half the season without playing anyone.

I do love Self's non-conference strategy... the games against the 150+ ranked teams are pointless, it obviously pays off big time, and the committee in recent years has rewarded a tough SoS with a few losses over rolling terrible teams.

Any conference with 5 ranked teams and 3 more receiving votes is doing pretty damn well. KU's conference games have been great entertainment, except TCU (even though a good beat down is nice to see sometimes).

Just wait until next year.

Tyshawn was more of a combo guard/scoring point guard. He was great for that team, but I'm a bigger fan of having a pg who facilitates and can knock down a jumps hot or get in the lane when needed. I'm not a fan of having my pg be the "scorer" on my team per say. I loved tyshawn, but I think right now, Tharpe is playing pg, as good as just about any pg self has had. He's rarely had a true pg at KU, more combo guys who play pg.

I'd agree, it's nice to have a "true PG", but it's hard to argue with the results.

Conner Teahan. National Championship game.

It just shows the crapshootability of the NCAA tourney.

Butler made back to back championship games. Crazy things happen.

I'm a fan of the Chiefs, Raptors, Leafs, and Blue Jays. And the Jayhawks. Watching the first group of teams has been completely soul crushing in my lifetime. Watching the latter has been completely the opposite.

So yeah, I believe it. Winning makes watching sports worth it. Winning against good teams makes it even better (and that's what KU has done for 10 years in the B12, whether you are willing to admit it or not).

Tyshawn's assist rate in his final year (29.7%) isn't too far off what Tharpe's is right now (30.3%). And that's in addition to everything else he contributed and the much larger offensive load he took on. By the end of his KU career, Tyshawn was really doing it all. Great player.

What was Sherron's?

For reference, Aaron Miles had the best assist rate of any Self player (38.2% in 2005 and 37.1% in 2004). 2014 Tharpe comes third after that and then 2012 Tyshawn.

I'm in the same boat as a lifelong Royals and Chiefs (and frankly, KU football) fan. But I don't think anyone nationally thinks our conference is great shakes. Okie Light went to the final four in Selfs first year but since then the Big 12 has been poor in March. Would you like Louisville in the league even if it ended our dominance? I would

23.2%, 22.1%, 29.0%, 24.4%.

The 29% was in 2009, the year after Chalmers/Robinson left (so the ball was in his hands often).

If Tharpe continues to play as he has the last 3 weeks from here out, I wouldn't have any problem saying he's in the conversation of being the best pure pg self has had at KU.

Don't care what anyone nationally thinks. March is a crapshoot. It's the rest of the season that tells you how good a conference is. And the B12, on the whole, has been a top 2 or 3 conference in the country over the entirety of Self's run here.

No, I'd like them in to make KU's dominance even more impressive.

I like where you're head's at.

Yep and that's why Selfs' 9 (10 probably) Big 12 championships are totally amazing.

If that was true, the Big 12 is never on the fortunate side of the crapshoot.


I'd like to see your evidence it was better than the Big East or ACC. No way in hell. I doubt it was better than the Big 10 although that one might be closer without looking up the data. I'll stipulate that a conference's quality is more than 1-2 teams doing well in March (that's what the SEC homers argue), but you have to do something in March to be considered a great league.

Jimmy Dykes said Embiid is the best player in the country, Bill Walton called Embiid a "sports changer" tonight. Dykes also believes KU and Arizona are the best two teams in the country.

It is true, it's the NCAA tournament. There is no greater crapshoot in sports. And KU has been fortunate several times.


Since 2008, the B12 has ranked among conferences 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 6th, and 2nd in terms of average efficiency of all teams (KenPom), an average ranking of 2.42.

The B10 over the same time period was 5th, 5th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 1st, and 1st (2.57).

The BE was 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd (3.00).

The ACC was 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 4th, and 4th (3.57).

The P10 was 2nd, 1st, 6th, 5th, 8th, 3rd, and 5th (4.29).

The SEC was 6th, 6th, 5th, 7th, 4th, 7th, and 6th (5.86).

Please stop trying to diminish KU's accomplishments over this time period. What you're saying makes no sense. Other than the B10 in recent years, the B12 has consistently been as strong a basketball conference as any in the country.

And if you don't trust KenPom's efficiency numbers, here are the conference rankings over the same time using Sagarin:

B12 was 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd (2.14).

B10 was 6th, 1st, 4th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, and 1st (2.28).

BE was 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, and 4th (2.86).

P10 was 1st, 3rd, 6th, 5th, 6th, 5th, and 3rd (4.14).

ACC was 4th, 5th, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 5th (4.43).

SEC was 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 4th, 7th, and 6th (5.57).

It would be interesting to see those numbers if you exclude KU.

You'd have to do the same with every conference's best team then. Imagine the former ACC without Duke?

I don't think you HAVE to. I'm just curious in the difference that KU makes in the overall numbers.

I bet it's an overall average higher than the impact that the top teams have on the other conferences. Partly because we tend to be ranked very, very highly in Kenpom.

We're still talking about an average of 10-12 teams (and more in the BE). It wouldn't affect that much. If we really wanted to eliminate meaningful outliers, we'd take out the awful TCUs of the world, not the best teams.

Eliminate TCUs and TTs for a pure numbers increase.

As I said, though, I'm more interested in just how MUCH better KU is than the rest of the Big 12. I suspect that KU is better than the rest of the Big 12 to a greater degree than other top programs are better than their respective conferences.

And that's not a slight on the Big 12. It's just that KU has been THAT GOOD. You don't get to be the winningest team in the past decade by accident.

Jimmy Dykes is an idiot.....does KU have "it" this year or are we still in the back of the plane?

Try answering my question next time. I said how come the Big 12 schools aren't ever on the right side of luck? You responded only with KU. Completely avoiding the point. (Incidentally KU is neither lucky nor unlucky over the long haul or under Self)




You said "Since Self arrived". I wasn't aware he arrived in 2008. But now I know.

OK

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...crappy-Doo.jpg

Lol yeah I remember him saying that in 07-08. He has an obsession for the SEC and UK.

That's really amazing to think about. :thumb:

Basically, what you are trying to say is that because other teams in the Big 12 haven't won championships, or gotten to Final Fours within a crapshoot of tournament the Big 12 is a bad conference.

I used to enjoy those beatdowns. Anymore, it's just boring to me. I would much rather watch them have tough games (and come out on top) and be prepared come tourney time.

I would like for KU to have a rival like the UNC/Duke thing. MU was kind of that. But they were kind of up and down. KSU was starting to get there under Martin. But they have to win more than once in a decade. ;)

Watching at the Texas bar tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Went to the game in 08, got some shit because we lost but other than that mostly decent people. Hung out with a UT group at a bar for most of the night.